| Revision as of 20:04, 6 November 2009 view sourceVanished user 05 (talk | contribs)6,607 edits →Suggestion of compromise← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 21:31, 25 November 2010 view source Avraham (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Bureaucrats, Administrators49,160 editsm Protected User talk:Vanished user 05: No reason for a vanished user to have edits to their user or talk pages. ( (indefinite) (indefinite)) | ||
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| See older threads in the ]. | |||
| Other pages: ] (not updated), my ] | |||
| ==] nomination of ]== | |||
| <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>I have nominated ], an article that you created, for ]. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at ]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.{{-}}Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. <!-- Template:AFDWarning --> ] (]) 10:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Freedom of the press in Russia wondering... == | |||
| Hi! I was wondering your motives when you reverted the version you wanted in the article ]. I'm little suprised that we have some editors (with Russian connection) who deny that there is nothing wrong with press freedom in Russia (for example according to the latest IPI report the press freedom in Russian sinked in 2009 under Belarus). I tell you a story: During the perestroika years, in late 1980s, did not only mean freedom of speech in the Soviet Union and East Europeans countries, but also in Finland. Though the country was/is democratic and capitalist, Finland was under heavy ] and the term itself was well-known among Finns even before 1980s. But people and media denied it - "How those arrogant Swedes and Western-Germans could say in aloud that we Finns are under self-censorship due the Soviet influence?". This was not bad, because the term was presented in abroad. But in late 1980s some of Finnish intellects said also this aloud. I remember that even I was angry: "who dared to say such stupidities" and "bring dirty to our homeland". Well, after the Soviet collapse the Finlandization became wellknown historical fact. ] (]) 17:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == 3RR warning == | |||
| ] You currently appear to be engaged in an ''']'''{{#if:Freedom of the press in Russia|  according to the reverts you have made on ]}}. Note that the ] prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the ]. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to ] to work towards wording and content that gains a ] among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek ], and in some cases it may be appropriate to request ]. Please stop the disruption, otherwise '''you may be ] from editing'''. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> ] (]) 21:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm grateful for you for your generous warning. I think it's very great for you to inform me that you are engaged in an edit war with me. I certainly lacked of that information. Thank you very much, my dear person. | |||
| : | |||
| :However, I point out that you made all the same three reverts in 24 hours: , , . So I am afraid you may be in the same sort of trouble that I am. Anyway, it was very generous for you to come here and to warn me. I am happy that there are so warm-hearted people in the world. ] (]) 21:43, 1 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Suggestion of compromise == | |||
| Considering the article ]. User Vlad fedorov's comment and my reply gave me an idea: How about we use only sources which are not U.S.-based (such as Freedom House and United States Department of State)? I think we could get a big picture with International Press Institute, Reporters Without Borders, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. However, the result is/will be negative for Russian contemprorary situation of the freedom of the press; one cannot make other conclusion after these reports. Also, Gil-Robles long quotations should converted to sensible sentences. However, we could use headings as I suggested in talk page, but there could some sort of balance of powers, as 50% negative and 50% positive (exaggerate by generalising), giving readers a freedom to choice. How about compromise? ] (]) 10:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Peltimikko, the IPI, PWB, HRW and AI make certain points about certain real existing troubles -- like, high number of assaults, partiality of judiciary, or some other issues. All of these issues are discussed in the article to greater or less extent. If you are eager to expand any topic or cover it in greater details, who holds you? Nobody. | |||
| : | |||
| :But I certainly resist the idea of creating any sort of a "big picture" where some sources will be banned, and only others would be used. At this point I can't agree with you, at least being a Misplaced Pages contributor who seeks to follow the ] policy. The real situation is very complex, I fear that an attempt to reduce that complexity to an easy picture will ruin the credibility of the whole. | |||
| : | |||
| :All of those reports are equally valid and I see no major contradictions between Gil-Robles and Amnesty International, for example. Their major difference is the topic selection that's naturally more broad in Gil-Robles'es report. For example, when Gil Robles speaks about assaults of journalists he is no less critical than the Amnesty International, albeit slightly in a more diplomatic tone perhaps. In this situation, I don't see how banning one source will work to add credibility to any other source. | |||
| : | |||
| :By the way, if you read Gil-Robles report, you would see it's roughly 50/50 positive to negative. Not anything you are looking for? | |||
| : | |||
| :Currently as Vlad appeared on the talk page and seems to be interested in the discussion, I strongly advise you to continue discussing the topic on the talk page of the article. Misplaced Pages articles are the public property. Users who participate in the talk need not to be ignored, it's a generally recognized requirement. | |||
| :I agree that some Gil-Robles quotations can be reduced to shorter statements. I see no problems, if that won't alter the sense of the quotation, and won't lead to silencing points made. ] (]) 16:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Well, I do not know what to do with you. You repel multiple reports by human right organisations (many, recent of them are published in 2009) and highlight a single report from 2004. If you are a man of science, you should follow evidences, not beliefs. Anyway, seems we can not find a compromise. However, I edit the article without U.S. based sources, because there is a doubt of these sources. ] (]) 17:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::Peltimikko. Please, tell me when did I repel those reports? All the new sourced information you introduced to the article is still there. ] (]) 19:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::For example. You inserted a section '''Pressure on independent media''', with the following passage: | |||
| :::''According to the World Press Freedom Review 2008 by ], Russian independent media is under increasing pressure. The goverment use variety of methods to control of broadcasters, to sideline critical journalists, and to intimidate them into self-censorship.<ref name="IPIRussia"></ref> According to the Freedom House report the Russian constitution provides for freedom of speech and of the press, but in reality, the politized and corrupt court system is used against independent journalists.<ref name="freedom2009" /> '' | |||
| :::In the recent version, there's the section '''Trends''', which sais: | |||
| :::''The World Press Freedom Review 2008 by International Press Institute stated that Russian independent media is under increasing pressure:'' | |||
| {{cquote|The central administration strengthened its grip on power by restricting journalism in the run-up to the State Duma and Presidential elections. State officials and pro-government businesses relied on a variety of methods to consolidate control of influential broadcasters, to sideline critical journalists, and to intimidate them into self-censorship.}} | |||
| ] (]) 20:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC) | |||