Revision as of 20:31, 23 February 2006 edit72.129.170.249 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 02:21, 27 February 2006 edit undoZzuuzz (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators136,853 edits United StatesNext edit → | ||
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== Picture == | == Picture == | ||
The picture should make it clear that the green indicates 10% or more Muslim population (obviously not all of India is Muslim as this picture shows. When 10% populatoin is Muslim, the picture indicated that as green) ] 20:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC) | The picture should make it clear that the green indicates 10% or more Muslim population (obviously not all of India is Muslim as this picture shows. When 10% populatoin is Muslim, the picture indicated that as green) ] 20:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC) | ||
:Now changed. Hope it's clear enough. -- ] <sup>]</sup> 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
==United States== | |||
I see someone just changed the figure for the number of Muslims in the United States from 4,140,277 (1.4%) to 7,140,277 (3.5%), so I just want to set some verifiable references for this figure. | |||
* 1% (2,957,341) - reported as a percentage which has undoubtedly been rounded making the actual number quite inaccurate. It could be as low as 1,478,671 or as high as 4,436,012. | |||
* 1,104,000 (2001) (p55) - adults only. | |||
* 1,558,068 (2004 est) - total Muslim population. | |||
There is some good discussion of the reliability of these figures at , where the whole range of reported figures (from 1.1 million to 12 million) are discussed. The reports a reputable study in 2000 which suggests a ''best estimate'' of 1,886,000 and an absolute ''maximum'' of 2,814,000. I would personally suggest that the 2004 estimate from adherents.com is used, and that's what I will put in the table now - 1,558,068 (0.5%). The rankings table, the totals for all countries, and the total for North America will need to be updated accordingly. -- ] <sup>]</sup> 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC) |
Revision as of 02:21, 27 February 2006
What is the source of these figures? Tagishsimon
Source
The source for most of these stats is CIA Fact Book. That's where I got this data initially.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/
Later, the rest of the stats were filled from
http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_321.html#2058 OneGuy 19:34, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Japan
- Just out of curiosity, where did the Japanese percentage come from? 760,000+ Muslims in Japan look like a pretty huge number. PMLF 19:53, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
All the math work was done from the percentage used by the program I wrote (the table was also generated by the program). I used 0.6% using
http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_164.html
The percentage on that page for Japan was from 0.2% to 1%. However, the 1% is from a very unreliable source (in most cases I ignored that source). I don't remember why I used it in this case. In any case, I can change it to 0.2% which will make the total 254,666 which seems more correct OneGuy 23:34, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks for answering so fast. I was just curious because that original number sounded too big for a country with no historical Islamic minority and where conversions to foreign religions (like Christianity and Islam) traditionally isn't very common. Although I think even 254,666 is probably too much but since this is the most reliable source available it's OK to keep it until a better source (if there is one)is found. PMLF 04:41, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Immigration not a conversion might be a factor. I know a few Muslims on the internet who claim to be from Japan. Most of them are immigrants from Pakistan, India or Middle East OneGuy 05:26, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- According to the page Religions of Japan, there is only a few Muslims in Japan:
- "Islam has been slowly growing as people comes to contact with it through people from Islamic nations or by learning about it through various ways. It is a very small group probably not even in the thousands and have a limited or no social influence yet and unlikely to in the foreseeable future. While believers may be frowned upon at first, generally, their need to pray and observe certain teachings are not hampered and unlikely to turn into a problem."
- I don't know what was their source though and unfortunately is too hard to find information about this subject. So, as I said earlier, I am not against keeping the 0.2 % that is already in the page. PMLF 22:22, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That cannot be right. A number of Japanese Islamic sites indicate that there are many more than just a few thousand.
Islamic Center - Japan http://islamcenter.or.jp/
isuramu.net http://www.isuramu.net/index.html
Islam website in Japan http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~racket/e_index.htm
Tokyo Mosque http://islam3.hp.infoseek.co.jp/benri/masjidtk.htm
Nagoya Mosque http://islam3.hp.infoseek.co.jp/benri/nagoya.htm
OneGuy 04:40, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
And this page has links to dozens of more Japenese Islamic sites
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~racket/islamlink.htm
And by pictures of Tokyo Mosque , it looks to be pretty big mosque. OneGuy 04:46, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, all these mosques suggest a population reasonable high of muslims. Maybe at least 50 000 or more. PMLF 04:25, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Brazil
By the way, PMLF, can you post the source for 0.03% Muslims in Brazil? I was unable to find the 2000 census result on the internet. OneGuy 18:44, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Here (Islamica = Islamic): http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatistica/populacao/censo2000/primeiros_resultados_amostra/brasil/pdf/tabela_1_1_2.pdf
The information is from IBGE which is the Brazilian Institute of Statistic. They are the ones that make the census in Brazil.
But they actually say only 27 239 (although I read in some newspaper that it was 56 000). So, maybe you'd better change the informnation to 27 239 instead of 56 000. I'll change my Islam in Brazil page accordingly as I mixed the Census info with the newspaper one.
Hope that helps. There are also information about the amount of Christians: 153 milion out of 170 Million people. And 12 million religionless people. 86,000 Jews, etc.... Feel free to ask qquestions about the file as it is all in Portuguese.
PMLF 04:22, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. According to that site, the total poulation in 2000 was 169,872,856. That makes percentage to 0.016%. I was using 0.1 since I couldn't find the source for 0.03. I will change it to 0.016. I also did Catholicism by country. The percentage I used for Catholics in Brazil was 79.97%. But according to this site, it's little lower, 73.57. OneGuy 06:30, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
73,57% is closer to the census info. According to IBGE there were 125 million Catholics out of 170 Million people in Brazil in 2000. PMLF 17:36, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Christianity
For or a comparison see User:OneGuy/Christianity by country OneGuy 20:12, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
changed percentages
I changed many of the percentages to US State Department's International Religious Freedom Report 2004 .
These reports are more up to date than both CIA factbook and adherents.com. I also found them more accurate. If anyone finds an error (in most cases a typo with percentage), let me know OneGuy 04:09, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Any explanation for the large (75%) change in the Serbia and Montenegro? Does the new list exclude Kosovo? - SimonP 04:30, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)
75%? It's 5% and was taken from http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35482.htm
The Muslim faith is the second largest in Serbia and Montenegro, with approximately 5 percent of the population, including Slavic Muslims in the Sandzak, and ethnic Albanians in Montenegro and southern Serbia.
OneGuy 04:51, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Oh, I see you meant change. No explanation. I just went with the numbers of State Department in this case. That is more authoritative source than adherents.com. I am not sure if they excluded Kosovo (which is unlikely) OneGuy 04:55, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If 19% came from CIA Factbook, I will take State Department's statistics over CIA factbook. I have found many errors in CIA factbook. For example, CIA factbook has 10% Muslims in Swaziland. However, this was contradicted by every other source. I checked State Department on Swaziland and they have...
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35385.htm
The population is approximately 40 percent Zionist, 20 percent Roman Catholic, and 1 percent Islamic.
In my view, these State Department's International Religious Freedom reports are far more accurate than CIA factbook OneGuy 05:30, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Serbia and Montenegro
That was bad :) The above link I gave clearly says that Kosovo was excluded and the rest of the population is 5% Muslim OneGuy 06:59, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Actually according to State Department, (including Kosovo), it's 21%
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35482.htm
- According to Montenegro's 2003 census, almost 70 percent of its population is Orthodox, 21 percent is Muslim, and 4 percent is Catholic. OneGuy 21:03, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Puerto Rico
Puerto Rico is not an independent country, and therefore shouldn't be given special treatment. Maybe I can make some of the accompanying text small. So it doesn't screw up the tables. WhisperToMe 05:44, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Puerto Rico is not part of the USA either so I think they should have their own entry in the article, just like they used to do. PMLF 13:24, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Puetro Rico is part of the USA, and maintains a semi-sovereign status. —thames 23:47, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Map
The map on this page fails to show France, Guyana, and Suriname all of which have a Muslim population of over 10% and is confirmed.
The German page on islam has a great map of Islam by country which we should steal and put here. —thames 23:41, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Here is a great map showing Islam by country—specifically the state of Islam in the country's constitution: whether it is an islamic state, islam is the official religion, religion is not mentioned, or the state is officially secular. Very interesting, and data which we should represent here, or at least copy on a map of our own. —thames 15:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Brazil-2
About Anon Editor's revert. If there is controversy give a source for the 1-1.5 million because that is a huge difference from 27,000. So, give a reliable source for alternative population counts. Using "unofficial estimates" is far too vague, so, just cite it. gren グレン 03:01, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. Also, there is controversy in every country not only in Brazil. So, if it`s to add this supposed to exist Brazilian controversy, then other similar controversies should be added as well. I doubt, for instance, that there are so many Muslims in Argentina as Muslim immigration to Argentina was negligible. PMLF 03:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I think that should be given a source to the claim that the Muslim population in Brazil range from 1 million to 1.5 million. Also, what "unofficial estimates" are these? These sources need to be identified. Otherwise, this entry should be deleted, as per Misplaced Pages:Cite sources. Regards, Carioca 05:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay guys, no need to rush. Here is the one from the Islam in Brazil page: . Here are two more I found which cite Muslim community leader estimates , .Thanks. --a.n.o.n.y.m 19:13, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I still don`t think this controversy should be in the article. Just let it herei n the discussions. This Muslim estimatives look like just wild guesses (which they probably are as according to one of the sites there are only 55 mosques in Brazil, none in Rio, by the way). These sources are simply not reliable since they made no kind of unofficial census. Also, anyone that wants to know the Muslim estimatives on this issue can read the Islam in Brazil article which mentions it. PMLF 19:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
- Well, you might not think the statistics are true, but I am sure that various community leaders whether they be Muslim, Catholic or Jewish have a rough idea about how much of the populace is in their community. Also discussion does not count as an article. Think of discussion as a forum discussing the actual article. --a.n.o.n.y.m 19:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Then these so-called controversies should be added about all other counties not only about Brazil...Otherwise just remove it from Brazil as it`s unfair to include it only for one country when Islamic authorities (and any other religious authorities for that matter) inflate their estmatives in all other countries too. Unofficial estmatives are just that, unofficial estimatives (aka wild guesses as statets above) and doesn`t deserve to be in the article when there is more reliable info available (the census). PMLF 19:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Ofcourse they should be added to others, as long as the sources are reliable. For example I provided a government source that classifies as reliable. But I think one of the reasons on why Brazil's population information is fascinating is because there is such as large difference between government census figures and community estimates. I think this is perhaps due to particular communities that are not amalgamated. Nevertheless, in the future, I will try to work on this for other countries and I will invite you there to check if you want. Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m 20:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
The sites you provided are not reliable at all. Two of them are completely unofficial and are not relevant and the other one (state.gov) says this: Muslim leaders have never taken a formal count of the number of Muslims; however, they believe that the official census greatly underestimated the size of their community. So, this info is not reliable either. So, I keep my position that this controversy must be removed from this article. This controversy only exists in those Muslim leaders heads. I live in Brazil and I can say that their estimative is completely absurd. I don`t know if they want political gains or anything or just think inflating the numbers will make Islam more attractive to Brazilians but the fact is that there is no way there are so many Msulims in Brazil. Newspaper estimatives (56,000-70,000 Muslims) are far more realistic than the Muslims authorities ones. The census is pretty accurate and such a diuscrepancy would probably never occur. It`s hard to believe that 900,000 Muslims didn`t want to say they are Muslims... I`m sorry but I see no reason to keep that controversy in the article. PMLF 20:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't know why the figures differ that much. My assumption can only be that there is isolation of communities in Brazil. Still community leader estimates are reliable especially since many community leaders agree on anywhere from 700,000 - 3 million and none below that. You keep saying that because you live in Brazil, you have seen this first hand. I am sorry but your opinion in this case cannot change the article because you are not a sourcable material. Just like you, the brazilian Muslim community leaders also live in Brazil, and they claim their numbers. The only difference between them and you is that they are sourcable. Also I don't know whether the census is reliable or not, because there could be problems with it. Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m 20:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
It`s the same Muslim authorities all the time that say there are this ridiculous amount of Muslims in Brazil. But I really can`t believe you find that source is reliable. Asource has to be reliable to be included and that one simply isn`t... Only because it`s in the internet it doesn`t make it true, you know. You may not believe the official census but they are the only reliable source, like it or not. PMLF 20:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
No, the census is "official", reliable can be anything that is widely popularized and cited. I don't agree with either numbers the census nor the community leaders, but this will still need to be in the article especially because there is such a wide difference between the numbers. --a.n.o.n.y.m 20:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Again you are comparing the official census to mere estimatives. The wide difference is irrelevant if the alternate source (Muslims authrorities) is not reliable. Adding this estiomative is also misleading because it leads the reader to believe the census is wrong and the alternate sources are right. So, we have to add only official numbers. The place for controversies is in each country`s specific page about Islam not in this article. What Muslim authorities believe or not believe is irrelevant when compared to official (and like it or not, more reliable) sources. PMLF 21:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
The only reason this one should be kept is because there is such a large difference between the "official" census and the estimatives of the many community leaders. If there was a difference of ten thousand then there would be no reason, but the difference here is atleast 1 million! Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m 22:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
It is already mentioned in the Islam in Brazil article. No need to addi t here. If anyone is interested in this controversy, then the person wil simply visit the Islam in Brazil article. So, it has ot be removed. No need to include it in the Islam by Country article only for the sake of including it. PMLF 22:19, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Ofcourse they need to know here because there is so much difference between the numbers. It is a large controversy. --a.n.o.n.y.m 19:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually there is no controversy. Anyone that thinks the census is wrong will simply verify the Brazilian article for more information as like they do regarding any other country. Wide numbers happen everywhere and this is why we need specific countries articles about this issue. PMLF 20:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Purpose?
What precisely is the necessity of these Islam by nationality articles? It is the only religion that gets this special treatment by Misplaced Pages (the Christanity one doesn't dedicate near enough dialogue to come close - and every other religion is ignored).
At best these articles should be reintegrated into the cultural segments of their individual nations and the larger data should be integrated into the Islam article - rather than maintaining this larger seperate structure. However some of this information is completely useless and should be disgarded if it cannot demonstrate a real and concrete impact on the nation in question e.g. Puerto Rico.
Muslim Population by Country
Where do the figures come from? I remember reading somewhere that Bangladesh had a greater Muslim population than Pakistan (though those figures could be out of date, as Bangladesh's population is no longer larger than Pakistan), and I'm pretty sure that Bangladesh's Muslim population is greater than India's. ςפקιДИτς 16:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Map is inaccurate.
- If that map is right than Islam is the majority religion in Kenya, Ethiopia, India, and F.Y.R. Macedonia which it is not. Pure inuyasha 21:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- sorry.... didn't see it said areas with more than 10%. Pure inuyasha 21:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Armenia
This article is pure garbage. There are no Muslims whatsoever in Armenia. I happened to be an Armenian and I know that for a fact. However, this article insists that Muslims make up 2% of Armenia's population. You Muslims are a very sad and desperate people to write this article that is almost entirely inaccurate in its data. Do you actually this that by lying about your religion, you are going to win a lot of converts, or excuse me, REVERTS to Islam. Grow up you backward savages, pull your brain out of your rear ends and put it where it belongs, in your heads. I really think you Muslim people think and crap from the same place. And what I can't believe is that the Misplaced Pages admins have allowed this garbage and countless other Islamic garbage to be posted in wikipedia. I am beginning to question the legitimacy of this web site.
- From US State Department
- "The Government does not provide official figures for religious adherents, but congregants offered the following unconfirmed estimates: Catholic, both Roman and Mekhitarist (Armenian Uniate) (180,000); Yezidi, an ethnically Kurdish cultural group whose religion includes elements derived from Zoroastrianism, Islam, and animism (40,000 nominal adherents); unspecified "charismatic" Christian (22,700); Jehovah's Witnesses (8,500); Armenian Evangelical Church (5,000); Baptist (2,000); the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) (2,000); Greek Orthodox (1,200); Seventh-day Adventist (950); Pentecostal ( 700); Jewish (500 to 1,000), and Baha'i (more than 200)."
- You are correct though -- After 1998 war, small Azeri population left Armenia -- making Muslim minority almost non-existent in Armenia. I will fix that. The 2% probably comes from older sources72.129.170.249
redundancy
"Listing of Muslims by country."
What the heck is need for this meaningless sentence? The Title already says "Islam by country." Pure waste 72.129.170.249 20:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Picture
The picture should make it clear that the green indicates 10% or more Muslim population (obviously not all of India is Muslim as this picture shows. When 10% populatoin is Muslim, the picture indicated that as green) 72.129.170.249 20:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
- Now changed. Hope it's clear enough. -- zzuuzz 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
United States
I see someone just changed the figure for the number of Muslims in the United States from 4,140,277 (1.4%) to 7,140,277 (3.5%), so I just want to set some verifiable references for this figure.
- 1% (2,957,341) 2005 CIA Factbook - reported as a percentage which has undoubtedly been rounded making the actual number quite inaccurate. It could be as low as 1,478,671 or as high as 4,436,012.
- 1,104,000 (2001) 2004-2005 Statistical Abstract of the United States (p55) - adults only.
- 1,558,068 (2004 est) adherents.com - total Muslim population.
There is some good discussion of the reliability of these figures at adherents.com, where the whole range of reported figures (from 1.1 million to 12 million) are discussed. The main summary page reports a reputable study in 2000 which suggests a best estimate of 1,886,000 and an absolute maximum of 2,814,000. I would personally suggest that the 2004 estimate from adherents.com is used, and that's what I will put in the table now - 1,558,068 (0.5%). The rankings table, the totals for all countries, and the total for North America will need to be updated accordingly. -- zzuuzz 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)