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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}. Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following: All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction. The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may: ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email. Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template. A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted. Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies: The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and: the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or the restriction was an indefinite block. A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction: a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE, a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN, a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA. Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped. Standard of review On community review Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption. On Arbitration Committee review Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator. Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state: Appeals by sanctioned editors Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org). Modifications by administrators No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes: For a request to succeed, either (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue. Information for administrators processing requests Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. A couple of reminders: Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request. When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X". Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it. More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated. Closing a thread: Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days. Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct. You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages. Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log. Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Shrike

Alinor

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Alinor

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Alinor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Alinor (talk) 16:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

listing my name at Misplaced Pages:ARBKOS#Modified as result of the enforcement request right above.

If de-listing requires lifting of the ban, the I appeal it too. Alinor (talk) 18:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Administrator imposing the sanction

Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Alinor

I'm not sure if this is the correct procedure, so excuse me if this is not the proper place for it.

I have a question - does this "Kosovo ban" enforced on me spread to talk pages? I assume it doesn't, but ask just to be sure.

My compliant. I don't agree with the reasons for the topic ban - I haven't broken the 3RR rule (neither 3RR/day nor 3RR/week; and the admin statement of "reverted at least three times" should read "reverted only three times") and from the wording of the admin ban enforcement I don't understand if the Kosovo (region) and Republic of Kosovo were under 1RR when I made the reverts or not. There is no such warning on their edit-view or talk pages so I still think they aren't under 1RR. And I said on the arbitration page that I'm sorry if these were under 1RR and asked to be excused in such a case.

The second reason given speaks about violation of Misplaced Pages:Splitting, but I haven't done a split, but a copy (with minor modifications). And the issue of not announcing the source of the copied (not moved) content in the edit-line summary (if applicable) was quickly corrected on the talk pages.

I'm not particularly troubled by such a ban, because I'm not a Kosovo involved editor and I don't intend to edit these articles anyway - as a passer-by I just tried to help cut the Gordian knot there. So, I don't want to ask for the ban to be reconsidered - it can remain - but I ask my name to be deleted from Misplaced Pages:ARBKOS#Modified together with the related edit-history. Alinor (talk) 16:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

So, should I then appeal both the ban and the listing? If so, then OK - the arguments are the same.

And does the ban apply to talk pages or not? Alinor (talk) 18:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein

This appeal does not contest the article ban (which does not extend to talk pages), but only its listing at Misplaced Pages:ARBKOS#Modified. It should be declined because the decision expressly provides: "Log any block, ban or extension under any remedy in this decision here." In addition, the appeal is in the wrong venue, because the decision does not allow appeals to this board. Any appeal should therefore be directed to the Arbitration Committee.  Sandstein  16:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Alinor

Result of the appeal by Alinor

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I agree with Sandstein that any ban issued has to be logged. There is nothing for us to do here, so the appeal should be declined. EdJohnston (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Jiujitsuguy

Supreme Deliciousness

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Supreme Deliciousness

User requesting ent

Cptnono (talk) 20:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles (expanded per request) Namely the principles of the final decision (see 4.1):

• "Purpose of Misplaced Pages" "Misplaced Pages is a project to create a neutral encyclopedia. Use of the site for... advocacy or propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts,... and political or ideological struggle, is prohibited." That is exactly what SD has done.
• "Decorum": "Unseemly conduct, such as ... gaming the system, is prohibited." I think SD has been treating Misplaced Pages like a game. Spending his time collecting diffs on JG during his ban shows that we should have little faith that the ban served its intended purpose. It is counter to what any one would consider appropriate decorum in such a contentious topic area.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Editor was topic banned for two months based on this AE request concerning gaming and reverting. It was lifted after only 1 month.

Problematic behavior began immediately.

• Within 3 hours, : Placed the Arabic translation in an article before the Hebrew. Do we really want an editor who does that in the topic area? This has surprisingly been an issue and it seems petty.
• Within 2 hours, : Opened up an AE against an editor he has long had differences with. It is clear that instead of using the time topic banned to improve his editing, he waited until he was not topic banned to continue battlefield behavior.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

• "...In lieu of the remaining month on your topic ban consider this a caution to edit within the letter and the spirit of ARBPIA and all applicable policies and guidelines. Consider it a chance to prove that the topic ban was unnecessary." (HJ Mitchell)
• Two topic bans and a 1/rr block based on actions in the topic area.

Enforcement action requested

Resumption of topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Comments by Cptnono

I've made a section for Cptnono, to stop the top section getting unwieldy. AGK 21:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Caution all you want, Sandstein. If you do not see a problem with coming off a ban early just to start the same behavior that caused the ban in the first place then you are simply wrong. Sandstein usually stays pretty level headed so I don't want to be a jerk about it but I for one disagree with you completely. If it was only those two edits it would not be worthy of notice but months of this behavior is. But I guess we will see. I got a wikibet on it that he will be back here (deservedly) within 6 months and banned again. I would love it if he proved me wrong but so far he has only proved me right. I will try not to say "I told you so" if it happens.Cptnono (talk) 01:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

But feel free to close this out. The unbanning admin has expressed the concerns perfectly and maybe that will be enough of a reminder. (User talk:HJ Mitchell‎#Supreme Deliciousness). Cptnono (talk) 01:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Follow-up: JG's diffs below show that SD has not been the best editor in the topic area. But to clarify, this request was not based on anything before his block. I do not know if this should invalidate JJG's comments or not on a procedural basis, but my concern was the coming off a ban and getting right back into a battlefield mentality. I would not have brought this up if he would have not quickly reverted over what language is translated first (akin to his previous reverting over what map or flag is used) and if he had not come straight here at his earliest convenience. Have lessons been learned or not? Did the ban do its job in preventing disruption and encouraging a better understanding of what is and what is not acceptable? He says he made a mistake. I don't know if he means it or if he thinks only a portion of what he did was incorrect but we will see. But again, feel free to close this out. It is going to get too heated. I still believe it should have been open and shut (not in SD's favor) but would prefer not to see another long debate that no one will read through since it will only serves to get people more upset.Cptnono (talk) 09:49, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• clears throat obnoxiously and points* Cptnono (talk) 00:37, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• Please clarify AGK. As it is, there are damning diffs for Supreme Deliciousness. Not seeing that is ridiculous. The last AE was closed for good reason but he deserved a talking too. This one should have been closed but it was kept alive by bickering. Is SUpreme Deliciousness the new Nableezy? Are the reports against him because everyone else is wrong and he is a good balance? What is this? He is obviously too biased to edit. He has been banned more than once. He focuses on what translation and map are used instead of content. Even the unblocking admin admitted to being made to looking like an idiot. So what is the deal? Why is he getting another pass? Show me one good edit that SD has made and I will show you 20 that are nationalistic POV pushing garbage. Lets do it. You wanted to keep this open even though I said lets close it so you show me one good edit and I will find you 20 diffs of him being a POV pusher. Of course, we don't need to do that since him filing an AE within 2 hours of coming off a topic ban shows what he is interested in. How about he gets a single article up to GA in the topic area. Just one. We got one up without his disruption so lets see him do it. Tag teaming allegations are absurd and your comment was an allegation so show some balls and start showing some diffs.Cptnono (talk) 08:22, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
• I also would appreciate it if you asked yourself why you have been defending SD this entire AE. You are not known as an overly contrary admin or one with a POV. However, you asked for clarification on if how it was a revert (even though I did not say it was a revert) and then you asked for diffs (they were not needed with the edit summary but another editor did provide them) and you also asked for the sanction to be clarified. WTF? Do you enjoy the dancing and the jumping through hoops? Do you want SD to not be banned under any circumstances? There has to be some reason and even though those both are absurd they are the first two that came to my head. When have you ever made any editor go through that much effort when there was a simple proposal made based on what some see as problematic edits. Feel free to delete this and move it to your talk page since this is more of a procedural inquiry as to why you are acting this way instead of being based on the editor in question. I said nothing when you said that I said it was a revert when I didn't. I said nothing when you asked fr clarification on the decision (even though you should be fully aware of the decision if you are making judgments on it) but I really don;t feel OK sating nothing when you make accusations of tagteaming when you have been monkeywrenching this process. So why are you doing it? Do you truly believe I or JJG or any of the other multiple editors who point to SDs nationalism as a problem are the thing that is wrong in the topic area? Is that why you are going out of your way to make this AE more complicated? Aree you upset that I got a warning for civility but did not head it? Is that the issue? Did you notice how I said we should close this out since people were just going to get upset? You should not be an admin in this venue if you can not stay consistent. Cptnono (talk) 09:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: SD YOU MEAN THE CENTRALIZED DISCUSSION I STARTED? THAT ONE THAT WAS STARTED TO STOP YOUR EDIT WARRING? THE ONE THAT NO ONE ELSE WOULD START? THE ONE THAT CAME TO AT LEAST SOME SORT OF CONSENSUS? THE ONE THAT CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT WAS FAVORABLE TO YOUR VIEWPOINT? Yeah, I said we should explore alternative wording instead of axing it completely when JJG requested a change. Note that I said multiple times that you were handling yourself well and showing the proper level of restraint during that process. Did you see the last AE you were involved in closed?(where I was in favor of a mentor instead of a ban when you abused multiple accounts) And the reason editors file enforcement requests against you is because you are treating the topic area like a game/nationalistic sopabox. I got news for you: Some people are perfectly happy calling locations Israel considers Israel even if others disagree. Tertiary sources don't even go as far as you do. Misplaced Pages is a tertiary source and not your soapbox. SO fine, not "everyone" but instead the multiple editors calling for your ban repeatedly since you refuse to abide by NPOV. And that other editor is clearly a malicious account so no comment is needed besides my own words: "There is not consensus for the map you chose (if anything it is slightly against you but that could be my POV) It is edit warring anyways since the next step was not to revert but seek another step i(sic) dispute resolution." Stop manipulating Misplaced Pages and stop manipulating AE. You are here for one reason and one reason only and it is clear. If the admins do not see it now they will see it eventually. I ask you to not paint others as the jerk when you are the one who is editing against our standards. Stop deflecting and fess up to your mistakes. Come on, just once. You cannot honestly say that you have not made mistakes in this topic area. I do not believe you can honestly say you are not a POV pusher so go ahead and prove me wrong. It is obvious you are not going to be banned (even though it is clear that you should be). Cptnono (talk) 10:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: SDAnd you still continue to deflect. Enough said. Your topic ban was lifted early and you truly did make the admin look like an idiot. It is a shame since some (even me to a lesser extent but especially the admin who lifted your ban) have tried to accept you. You want nothing but to make a point and that is not why we are here as editors.Cptnono (talk) 10:44, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: SD No, you are a POV pusher. JJG has a massive bias but his POV pushing (he has to admit there is some even if it is not malicious) is nothing compared to yours. You cannot even let Hebrew text go in front of Arabic text. You bicker over a map being used when no map or a map of the city would do just as well. You bicker for removing the Israeli flag when no flag is needed per the manual of style. You are why the war article should be demoted from GA and your absence is why falafel was raised to GA. You are here to say that Syrian territory is x and Israel is bad. You know why I am so adamant in this topic area? Because of editors like you and Nableezy. There needs to be a counter to editors like you and sockpuppets like Sol (potentially Asam). I do not want to say the Golan Heights are without any doubt part of Israel. I just want to say "it is the way it is, here are some sources to look into".Cptnono (talk) 10:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

And by the way AGK: After you address why you have been so adamantly against this request as asked above (seriously, you need explanation on the decision now? How often have you asked for that?) and answered if you are upset that I did not head your warning to be ore civil, I would be happy to provide you summaries of emails that have gone back and forth during this conversation with another editor and myself if he was to give approval (I won't give his name, a summary of his comments, or any quotes without it). It shows a lack of tag teaming if anything since it was basically two guys BSing after the AE came up. I'll even show you what I said: "LOL. AGF or contrary bullshit. All I know is I am going to wake up with a hangover tomorrow and regret pouting so much. Screw it, it is how I see it. Anyways, thanks for the email and I hope your day goes fantastic! :)" Is that tag teaming? The amount of coordination between me and other editors on the "pro-Israeli" side is pretty much nonexistent besides random venting. The specter of tag teaming vs the reality of POV pushing. Go ahead and worry about tag teaming but we have absolute proof that SD is a POV pusher (which this AE was not even about until he started pointing blame everywhere else) while any tag teaming is based on us showing up on the same pages. Do you blame us? We keep the same stuff watch listed and it is not possible to be in the topic area without wanting to comment on an AE about SDs nationalism. Edit in the topic area for a week and you will see it.Cptnono (talk) 11:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• I did not at any point imply that you were part of a tag-team. But as those allegations have been made, I am looking into the article in greater detail. If the positions were reversed and you claimed that there was a team of editors who were working against you, I know without doubt that you would want me to undertake a genuine evaluation of your claim. AGK 21:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• True enough. The allegation made me a little livid the other night and I became unhinged (obviously shown above). Go ahead and look into it of course. Not doing so would be inappropriate. I full-on deny any such charges (and Gatoclass's accusation of tit-for-tat is untrue even if he assumes it is) but maybe your input will shed some light on it that I am not seeing. Since I do like some editors in the topic area and agree with their POV more than others it probably does rub off and impact some of my decisions. I don not think it is in anyway malicious.
• And thank you for commenting as an involved editor Gatoclass. We already discusses that a few months ago so I assume you know my reaction would have been pretty poor otherwise.
• And I don't care what happens to JJG and Chesdovi since this AE is not about them. I like JJG so I hope that he escapes anything to harsh but he had nothing to do with me making this request so that is a whole other discussion. For SD, how hard is it to pull the trigger on him sitting out the rest of his ban? That was my original request and the two diffs (not one Gatoclass) support my assertion that it was simply lifted early since ended up not taking positive advantage of the chance given.Cptnono (talk) 04:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• And "speaking of enough is enough", I agree. That is why I opened up an AE against someone who is proven to be a problematic editor. IF you want to boomerang it because my talk page discussion is not as nice then so be it but the real issue is edit warring and pushing POV in the mainspace. Is falafel POV or is it GA? That is all I have to say about that until my appeal.Cptnono (talk) 04:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Supreme Deliciousness

Statement by Supreme Deliciousness

I made a post at the Golan heights talkpage about my edit . Two users had recently changed the position of the placement, putting the Hebrew translation before the Arabic in a place internationally recognized as in Syria, neither had explained this change.. So I reverted this and explained the change, Syria's official language is Arabic.

The enforcement I filed above against user Jiujitsuguy is a 100% legitimate enforcement request against a user who is constantly violating npov and his other disruptive behavior. There is no "battlefield behavior" about opening a legitimate enforcement request. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:03, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Reply to AGK: The position was changed before by Chesdovi, and I then also had opened up a discussion explaining why Arabic should be first: . Chesdovi did not reply to me. Now Chesdovi just came back and reverted it again without saying anything.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

It was reverted by Brewcrewer:. I had explained it before: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

AGK, this is seriously unbelievable that you can call those four edits that I made "against Israel" , and say that I am "non neutral" based on them. I explained every single one of those edits at the talkpage . One of them is me adding a section for Quneitra, the second is me creating separate sections for Syrian and Israeli settlements. Third is me removing an unsourced map that had been unsoruced for a very long time and tagged for a very long time, fourth is me adding one sentence summary of a quote that was never agreed to be removed.

How exactly are they "against" anything? or "non neutral"? and when I explained them in detail, they were reverted without addressing any of the issues I brought up:

The Golan heights is internationally recognized as part of Syria: Per npov undue weight, we should represent the worldview. "The international community maintains that the Israeli decision to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration in the occupied Syrian Golan is null and void and without international legal effect" p 23 Or this GA vote about "occupied Syrian Golan", 161-1 "the United States considers the Golan Heights to be occupied territory subject to negotiation and Israeli withdrawal" p. 8. EU: . Arab League: Amnesty International:

I just brought up tons of evidence here]: about JJG going against the entire world view and his other disruptive behavior, and you didn't say one single word or bring up one single diff about his pov pushing.

• He ads that its located in Israel: Ads a map of Israel showing the area as part of Israel: Rujm el Hiri: , Nimrod:, Katzrin:

• Mount Hermon is a mountain completely located in Syria and Lebanon, part of it in Syria is also in the Golan heights. There was a location map in the article showing the two countries the mountain is located in, Syria and Lebanon. Jijutsuguy removes this location map following the international view and also ads Israel to the infobox: , he is claiming that the Golan Heights is Israel. At the talkpage he claimed that the location map highlighting the two countries Mount Hermon is located in, Syria and Lebanon "violates NPOV and is extremely misleading.", and claims it is located in a "third" county. He has removed a location map from the article following the international view, based on his pov believes that Golan Heights "is Israel".

• At the 2006 Lebanon War article, Jijutsuguy replaces the "Golan heights" with "northern Israel"

• At the Hexagon pools, article, about a place in the Golan heights, Jijutsuguy changes it to: "The Hexagon Pool in Israel" and "Golan Heights, in northern Israel."

• At the Golan Heights article there is a "Territorial claims" section, I previously explained at the talkpage why I had removed the claim that France got "primarily in exchange for French concessions in the oil rich areas of Iraq", and replaced it with that Palestine got lands in Syria and Lebanon including the entire sea of Galilee: , Jijutsuguy previously reverted me: and said at the talkpage: . I then explained in great detail why the source he wanted to use is unreliable about what happened ,

Then, without saying anything, without addressing any of the points I brought up at the talkpage, he reverts it once again:

• At the Six Day War article there was this sentence in the article: "Israel also expelled Arabs from the DMZ and demolished their homes", the sources used in the article say: "Arab villagers residing in the DMZs were evicted and their dwellings demolished, 'as the status quo was all the time being altered by Israel in her favor.' The Security Council called on Israel to let the villagers return, but Israel..." p.131, "On the latter point, Bull's reflections are worth quoting in full: I imagine that a number of those Arabs evicted settled somewhere in the Golan Heights" p.132, "'the status quo was all the time being altered by Israel in her favor' as Arab villagers were evicted, their dwellings demolished, and 'all Arab villages disappeared' in wide swaths of the DZs." p.186

Jijutsuguy changes this sentence to: "Israel also expelled Arab squatters and trespassers from the DMZ and demolished their homes."

• Jijutsuguy repeatedly uses insults in his edit summary's when reverting other editors contributions, calling them "troll" at Jerusalem: , and at 2006 Lebanon War:

• At the Golan Heights talkpage there has previously been long discussions about the map in the infobox:. Jijutsuguy and a few others wanted to use a modified CIA map where the placement of the name "Syria" is moved from a place internationally recognized as part of Syria, and "Israeli occupied" is removed underneath "Golan Heights". Jijutsuguy participated in the discussion and the arguments he used were replied to: ( Reply) * ( Reply) * ( ReplyReply), after his last argument he used, he had previously also changed the map in the middle of the discussion to the modified one:. Overall in this discussion with many participants, no consensus was established to use the modified map.

Despite this, now after, Jijutsuguy has once again changed it to the same modified one:

Please explain why you haven't said one single word about this and please show me one single edit I have made that I am not editing in a neutral manner.? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Important note for reviewing admins: Both Cptnano and Nsaum75 edit Misplaced Pages articles according to the same pov as Jiujitsuguy. They usually show up to the same articles, same edits, show up to the same enforcements, either defending the same editors are wanting the same editors topic banned. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

JJGs copy pasting of old accusations: . Okey now JJG has copy pasted old accusations that has already been brought up 3-4 times before and that I have replied to 3-4 times at previous enforcements:

I have been sanctioned for the same types of comments I made about Arab food, some of the comments are more then 1,5 years old before I received the ARBPIA notification, and I have not said those types of things again after the enforcement:. And just to be clear, they were not about calling "members of the Jewish faith", "thieves", it was about appropriation of Arab cuisine.

JJG once again brought up those types of comments at PhilKnights talk, and he didn't consider them actionable, Phil not knowing that I was already sanctioned. I then told him that I was already sanctioned for those types of comments before: .

They were immature comments I made, but I have paid for what I said, and it was a long time ago and I have not said those types of things again. Yet some people keep on bringing them up over and over again.

Previously I have also repeatedly responded at several enforcements to these same things as JJG have once again brought up now:

Its hard finding all these old diffs, if somethings missing, ask.

And I explained in great detail at the talkpage why I removed the views of two US presidents from the article. Please see here:--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe I have previously addressed all of them as shown the diffs above, whats missing? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:32, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I also explained the comments I said to Ani medjool at an old enforcement where I was topic banned: "Ani Medjool had very strong language" (about Israel and other things) "and what I meant about that was that he might get banned if he continues....... so I told him that if he feel the way he feels he should be quiet about it. For the sake of the encyclopedia, to avoid unnecessary drama.". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You are once again twisting the things that I said, I didn't think it was contentious to note Bernard Lewis background so thats why I didn't mention it in the edit summary, and I added it on the reasons I stated above. I did this once. I haven't edited any article about a Hindu historian speaking about contentious and disputed origin of Hindus, or a Buddhist historian speaking about the contentious and disputed origin of Hindus. I myself didn't try to "prove" what Hitlers background was, there were several reliable sources including Haartez that had reported about his background being of the same one of the people he hated, so I believed this was notable information. I also didn't try to prove that "Jews were involved in the slave trade", I asked Jayjg why he had done some changes to the articles, and the reason for them, he did not bring any new source when he did the change. I opposed the removal of the conspiracy sections in the 9-11 twin tower attacks based on my comment there . --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Re:JGG: :Yes all those diffs of me removing a country from places in East Jerusalem are in accordance with the entire international community view who object to Israels annexation of East Jerusalem. This has been discussed before where I participated: .

The same edit has been reverted several times by several editors. Look at the history of the articles: etc. The edit is clearly pov, that the majority object to.

This edit as Western wall , I am removing a pov map violating the views of the entire international community, the map that I am replacing it with is supported at the talkpage and not objected to by any side of the dispute at the talkpage and will now stop edit warring. And the long discussions there as I have participated in will also come to an end.

You have already brought up the Hebrew/Arabic issue before here, Sandstein already told you "The Arabic edit, on its own, does not demonstrate disruption.", why are you posting it again? I have explained this several times before, I made a post at the Golan heights talkpage about my edit . Two users had recently changed the position of the placement, putting the Hebrew translation before the Arabic in a place internationally recognized as in Syria, neither had explained this change.. So I reverted this and explained the change, Syria's official language is Arabic. Its interesting that you are bringing up me changing back the position of the translation while discussing it at the talkpage, while you have no problem with yourself changing it while not discussing it.

My comment to Ani Medjool is from 2009 and was brought up at an enforcement where I was topic banned: and I have explained this before at the enforcement. I don't believe it is right that JJG keeps on posting this all over the place repeatedly and wanting me sanctioned for the same things over and over again, for example: JJG have previously said some very disturbing things about users at Misplaced Pages and other disturbing things and attacks that got him indefinitely blocked at one point, I can not link to it as that would be outing, but I don't believe he should be sanctioned several times for this same thing that he said.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Re:JJGYou published an entire article at a well known Israeli newspaper and several websites, signing with your name. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

JJG you published it in several newspapers and websites, so it didn't seem as something you didn't want to be revealed. If you had said something I wouldn't have linked to it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:54, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Re Sandstein: Could you please explain what edits JJG has brought up that you refer to as "The other edits, while problematic" ? I believe I have previously repeatedly responded to these accusations as can be seen in the diffs above, JJG and the other users who repeatedly posted these same accusations have misrepresented what I said. Have you read my replys? If there is something you feel is problematic I want to know what exactly. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:56, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Your edits cited by Jiujitsuguy insofar as they predate 2011. If you believe these have already been taken into consideration in previous proceedings, you should link here to the archives of these discussions.  Sandstein  23:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

What I said was that these accusations have been brought up 3-4 times before and that I have already replied to them. JJG and the others who have repeatedly brought up these accusations have misrepresented me.

JJG claims: "Dismisses views of editors deemed “pro Israel”" but this was not what I did as I have explained before: . I pointed out there political positions because there was an editor who was blocked who had the same political position as them. And these two editors with the same political position wanted him unblocked. I was making other people who might want to unblock the blocked editor aware of that they share the same political position.

"Unilaterally changes name of Jerusalem International Airport" explained: . It was a mistake that I did.

"Labels noted historian as “Jew”" explained: thats not really what I did: I said "Jewish historian". "Jewish Historian" gets 69,800 results on Google books.. So the edit was in accordance with mainstream publications. And it was the context of the text why I added it, the text was about a historian talking about the origins of Jews. So to point out the background of the historian, I saw as relevant. I don't really care about this, it was one edit I did, no one said anything. If anyone felt it was a problem they could have said so, I wouldn't object to removing it.

"Removes all historical Jewish connections to the city of Gamla", Explained:. This is not what I did. I removed in the first sentence that its a Jewish city because the first source in the article shows that Gamla did not start out as a Jewish city. It is therefor incorrect to refer to it as a "Jewish city" in the first line of the article when Jews later moved in there.

"Rejects the opinion of a closing admin because he’s considers Jews not neutral", this is not what I did and my comment from 1,5 years ago was brought up at a previous enforcement: , what I did was also explained at a second enforcement here: "Yes I said Oren0 can not be considered neutral to the subject at the dispute at the Golan Heights article because of the things written at his userpage. The Golan Heights is occupied by Israel, the things written at his userpage shows him being supportive of Israel, so how could he be a neutral part or mediator if he supports one side? Would anyone ask User:Tiamut to mediate between a Palestinian and an Israeli?" This has nothing to do with "considers Jews not neutral", it has to do with any person having a Conflict of Interest. Whether it's a Greek mediating between a Turk and Greek or a Palestinian mediating between an Israeli and a Palestinian.

Is there something here above in these repeated old replys that is not sufficient? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:02, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: Cptnono Thats cherry picking part of the conversation, I told HJ I made a mistake by filing it right after. I shouldn't have done that. You said: "Are the reports against him because everyone else is wrong" Well who are these "everyone else"? How do they edit articles? Are they all editing articles according to a world view? or are they all editing articles according to the views of one country? Perfect example can recently be seen at Western Wall: Source was provided at talkpage showing the international view that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territories . Misplaced Pages policy npov say we should follow the majority view, JJG changes the map based on guide sources: that obviously is not of the same standard or authoritative as the UN sources representing the international community. Cptnono does not say one single word to JJG about this clearly npov violation. User:Assad reverts back to consensus:. Cptnono immediately objects to the worldview edit: and posts at his talkpage: . User Nsaum75 who also showed up to this enforcement who has filed two previous enforcements against me, he also has has described East Jerusalem as part of Israel:. Chesdovi has also described places in East Jerusalem and West bank as part of Israel:. Cptnono, Nsaum75 and JJG all supporting not highlighting in the location map the two countries that Mount Hermon is internationally recognized as being located in, for the sake of the believes of one country that its also located in a "third" country:. Another example is Nsaum75 filing an entire enforcement based on me removing the "Islamic terrorism" category from Hezbollah , Nsaum75 has never edited that article or its talkpage, after JJGs topic ban was lifted, JJG shows up there and ads the same category, and he also never touched that article or its talkpage before. Mbz1 and Cptnono both has supported JJG when he wanted to change the illegality settlement sentence:, a sentence that I and several other believe is inaccurate and not following the sources. This is only a few examples, I'm sure I can bring many more. So this is the "everyone else" --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You started to stop my edit warring? I think I made one edit to the settlement articles, then I was notified about the discussion (that you had started before my edits) and I joined it. The "Settlements and International Law" section was started by JJG, but this doesn't matter, I only wanted to show that "everyone else", in this specific case, you and Mbz1 have a history of supporting JJG. And all of you have been involved in enforcement agaisnt me. So this is the "multiple editors" or "everyone else" wanting me banned. I have made mistakes, but I don't believe I'm a pov pusher. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:40, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "Hebrew in front of Arabic", it has to do with the language of the country its internationally recognized as part of being first, and when I have repeatedly discussed this at the talkpage, it has been reverted by JJG and Chesdovi without explanation. No map would not be fine, it would be appeasing pov pushers and removal of something important from articles. Yesterday I contacted Dr.Blofled and got a map for Jerusalem, this will probably end all the problems at all the discussions at Western Wall and the other East Jerusalem articles. The flags I have wanted to remove does not belong there, at Gamla there was no need to have a flag for the Israeli parks authority, at Hermon there was an Israeli flag representing the Golan Heights, which of course is inaccurate and pov, Syria and Lebanon flags for Syria and Lebanon are not inaccurate, but I didn't object to the flags being removed from them.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re Nsaum75, going by what you said you have about 20 times as much reason to go to all articles about places in Israel and remove that they are in Israel, because there are about 20 countries who say the area is Palestine, while there is only one country who say Golan Heights is Israel, you have been shown WP policy npov and that we should go by the international view. The majority of the mountain including the summit is located elsewhere in Syria and in Lebanon, so your suggestion doesn't make any sense. I brought this up at the talkpage and you did not reply. You want to exclude the majority of Syria and Lebanon where the majority of the mountain is located and only highlight a small part of the mountain that is occupied by Israel. That is non-factual only to appease pov pushing. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:07, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: NuclearWarfare: Can you please explain how "fault lies with both of them"? There is no justification for saying this. Collective punishment is not fair. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

NuclearWarfare, JJG has misrepresented the things I have said here and twisted them into something that I didn't say, I have replied to these things over and over like 4-5 times now, posted at several enforcements and admin talkpages, this is fishing. All these things also predate my latest topic ban, could you point out to those specific edits I have done that concerns you? I think you have maybe missed some of my replies. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:32, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

NW, Please read my comments at my talkpage: , he had published an article about his own edits at Misplaced Pages at a BIG newspaper and websites and he signed it with his name, I did not sign it for him, he did, because of this I did not think it mattered for him. As soon as he told me he didn't want it linked because of this, I respected that.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Re:Enigmaman: I did not return to make the battleground edits I made before. I was blocked for the many reverts I did at Hezbollah. I have acknowledged that me filing the enforcement right after the topic ban was wrong, but it was a legitimate enforcement as stated by Sandstein. There has not been any battleground edits at any articles after my return. Once again I'm sorry for filing the enforcement right after the topic ban ended, it was inappropriate. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:41, 2 March 2011 (UTC) Re:No More Mr Nice Guy: I spent my topic ban doing many things, the admin said he was going to lift it in advance from the beginning, in the end I started to prepare the enforcement, I have acknowledged that it was wrong of me to do that and that it was inappropriate. I wanted it lifted so I can edit the articles I want to edit, not to file an enforcement. Bring the diffs that you refer to and I will reply. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Re:Arthur Rubin, you said: "It's clear that whatever he's doing now is a continuation of what he was sanctioned for before", what is it that I am doing now that is a continuation of what I was sanctioned for before? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Georgewilliamherbert, this is a reply to this comment by JJG: you can see what Jiujitsuguy did during my "calm" "one-month absence" here: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:13, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Supreme Deliciousness

• Q: "Plac the Arabic translation in an article before the Hebrew has surprisingly been an issue" - could we have some diffs as evidence of this, please? AGK 21:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I will see what I can pull up. For the Golan Heights, his edit summary was "Restore unexplained changes of translation" so restore means that he obviously reverted someone. Maybe he should have opened up the discussion and waited instead of reverting, no? SD has expressed concerns over translations in a manner that I feel shows that there is a battlefield and POV issue. For example, Falafel. Note that we got it to GA just the other day! I will find some more but it has been over multiple articles so my recollection is not perfect.Cptnono (talk) 21:23, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Hummus Again, is this the sort of thing we need or want in the topic area? A crusade against Hebrew translations is really nothing more than rocking the boat in a nationalistic effort.Cptnono (talk) 21:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I have previously opened up discussion about the translation when Chesdovi changed it, and he did not reply then, and now he did the same thing again.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Both Falafel and Hummus are Arabic words so they're translation are the only one that are relevant, there has been several discussions at the talkpage where I participated, see also Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (use English): "The native spelling of a name should generally be included in the first line of the article, with a transliteration if the Anglicization isn't identical."--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

• Q: I am assuming that this complaint is filed under the "Discretionary sanctions" remedy of the P/I arbitration case? At present, only the case page is linked to, but we need a specific remedy to proceed; Cptnono, could you please edit the complaint information and be more specific? AGK 21:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment

A number of articles mentioned above (including the Golan Heights article) have been battlefields with nationalist "nit-picking", "prodding" and claims of "pov pushing" over things like translation order or where photos were taken. If you look at the history of them during SD's topic ban, however, they have been stable and this AE enforcement board has been relatively quiet in regards to ARBPIA filings. During his ban the article on Falafel, which is under ARBPIA 1rr restrictions due in part to political editing that SD had a hand in, also reached GA status with the input of several editors and an admin, Malik Shabazz. I would ask that this be taken into consideration. -- nsaum75  21:46, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Like me opening up discussions at the Golan Heights talkpage and explaining my edits with no reply, and then later the same editors come along and just revert everything without explaining they're reverts, is that "stable" ? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

WP is not a battle ground. I'm not commenting on the "correctness" of their edits, but rather your continued battlefield behavior (as partly evident in your immediate ARBPIA AE filing against other editors almost immediately after your own ban was lifted for good behavior) and your continued failure to recognize your own battlefield behavior (as you mentioned above, when saying there is nothign battlefield about opening an AE proceeding). -- nsaum75  22:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Correct, filing a legitimate enforcement request against a user who is constantly violating npov and his other disruptive behavior is not battlefield behavior. Its filing a legitimate enforcement request.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC) --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Sigh... -- nsaum75  23:24, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I didn't know that I shouldn't have filed an enforcement request after a topic ban ended. It came out wrong. It wont happen again. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Yet you added this immediately before apologizing to Mitchell for battlefield behavior. The best approach to making changes to the articles would have been to ease back into editing, not a barrage of changes and AE filings. This is not the first time an admin has cited you for battlefield behavior, and eluding to the belief that certain editors should be disregarded because you believe they follow a certain POV or edit style, is not helpful or constructive. If I were in your shoes, I would sit back for a bit and chill out. Its not always necessary to have the last word. -- nsaum75  23:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe its important to know where the accusations are coming from, Cptnono wanting me topic banned because I followed WP guideline Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions, and you saying Golan Heights was "stable" without me. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Re:, Sometimes you choose to diffs to draw your opposition in an interesting, however misleading light. Highlighting a controversial area on a map and excluding the countries around it was an attempt to try to diffuse the bickering between those who want it shown as part of Israel and those who want it shown as part of Syria; an attempt to work collaboratively and trying to find consensus by removing areas which was causing contention on both sides and focusing just on the area being discussed in the article (dispute resolution). In any case, I have only filed AE enforcements against editors twice. Both times they were against you, and both times they led to your sanctioning - therefore they had merit. I rarely edit IP area articles anymore because of personal threats I've received on and off Wiki, and because most of the editors involved are so battlefield minded that any edit that might stray from their own POV instantly creates a massive conflict. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way, and I'm sure I'm not the only editor (new or established) who has been run off (or dissuaded) from editing because of people who are unable to work collaboratively with others. Maybe I'm foolish for commenting here. Maybe I'm foolish for trying to find ways to create and improve articles instead of intense bickering over minor things such as where photos were taken, what order wikiprojects are listed or whether hebrew or arabic come first. The disruption must stop. Admins: You surely must realize that IP area is no longer a place where "anyone" can edit. Its become a place where you can only edit if you want to be thrown into a fire and roasted until you either "toe the line" of a particular side or decide to run away screaming. Sad indeed. -- nsaum75  14:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Sigh...Once again I disagree with the way you have framed the enforcement. The successful enforcement was based on your gaming the system, not the viewpoint of your edits. If you note, I didn't take a stand on the issue, instead asking for Admin clarification/direction on how such a situation should be handled, as I thought this might help diffuse the situation. Also, It is possible to have many articles on your watchlist without editing them as well. WP is not a "game" to be won. Its a collaborative project where we are supposed to build articles not fight over every little word and go over everyone's every word with a fine-tooth-comb. I guess I am foolish for trying to help people find common ground or defuse tense situations; for that, I apologize. -- nsaum75  15:46, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Jiujitsuguy

In addition to what Chesdovi noted below, I have some things to say on this for obvious reasons. First, I note that, as indicated by tool server, SD has made more edits to AE than nearly any other editor, over 400 posts and counting.. This is an astonishing figure when compared to others in the topic area. I will not comment directly on the AE that SD filed against me but I will comment on some of the edits he’s made after receiving the Wikipedian equivalent of parole from his Topic Ban. Less than 2 hours later, he began making edits to the Golan Heights and subsequently made a series of edits in rapid succession including these two blanket reversions of the views of United States Presidents and US foreign policy. Also these problematic edits by SD have yet to be addressed. Reversion of sourced material without the use of edit summaries He has also engaged in an editing pattern that is dismissive of Jewish or Israeli viewpoints and often attempts to downgrade the Jewish nexus with Israel.

• Dismisses views of editors deemed “pro Israel”
• Unilaterally changes name of Jerusalem International Airport
• Labels noted historian as “Jew”. This diff speaks a volume and demonstrates that the user's approach has never changed. Exactly as in the differences provided above and below, the user dismisses the views of someone he identifies as a Jewish administrator and Jewish editors in the same manner that he does in the instant example. The user adds "Jewish" to the name of historian to demonstrate that this fact alone makes him not trustworthy.
• Removes all historical Jewish connections to the city of Gamla
• Rejects the opinion of a closing admin because he’s considers Jews not neutral

Supreme Deliciousness has on at least three (3) occasions used pejoratives to refer to members of the Jewish faith, describing them as “thieves.” The last three diffs are older and are used here for demonstrative purposes to show that SD displays an extreme bias and an obsessive animus toward Israel and members of the Jewish faith. He has yet to offer a retraction for making those obscene comments despite being challenged and given opportunity to do so. This is clearly someone who should not be editing in the topic area.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 09:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• SD's retort above addresses only those three edits that I specifically cited for demonstrative purposes only. They do not address the other, more recent diffs that are noted above. These very problematic edits have yet to be discussed or addressed in any forum.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 11:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• I want all admins viewing this AE to take note on how SupremeD once again dismisses the views of editors he identifies as pro-Israel in the context of the instant action.. Compare the previously noted edit with this gem authored by SD. I don’t think there’s any better proof than this. This either represents an incredible lapse of judgment on his part or he feels that he is impervious to administrator action. In any event, it demonstrates that he will never learn from his past actions no matter how many topic bans or blocks are instituted against him.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 11:13, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• @Sanstein. You acknowledge that the diffs are problematic. You state that the diffs pre-date his most recent topic ban. While that is technically true, it is also true that his last topic ban did not even address these matters and focused exclusively on SD's GAMING of the system. Since the diffs and problematic edits were never addressed in any forum, I submit that it is proper to address them here and now.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 17:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
• And there is one more thing I'd like to add, something that represents a constant undertone to SD's edits. Possible evidence of Antisemitism is not merely "problematic." There is a fine line between hatred of Israel, which is amply evident by SD's editing patterns, and antisemitism. The fact that several of his edits invoked the word "Jew" and his singular obsession with "Jewish Historians," "Jewish administrators," and "Jewish editors," (or his perception, either real or imagined, of them as being Jewish) is more than just "problematic." I would link you to an older version of his user page where the vitriolic venom is amply demonstrated but that has since been removed, replaced by a picture of an innocent, non threatening looking pelican. I urge you to please carefully scrutinize those diffs that have never been addressed before in any forum, and judge for yourself. But please don't dismiss such a serious issue with the wave of a hand.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 18:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional comment by Jiujitsuguy

• Unfriggin believable! Supreme Deliciousness makes the most distasteful and offensive comments about Jews, some of which are outright antisemitic and you say they're not actionable?! His comments clearly demonstrate that he harbors deep-seeded animosity toward those of the Jewish faith, calling them "thieves." He has amply demonstrated that he considers the views of Jews tainted, as evidenced by his near obsession with labeling those he takes issue with, including noted historians as well as wikipedian editors and administrators, as "Jews" or "Jewish" or "Israeli." I am asking that another admin review this with a fresh eye, untainted by comments from others who clearly don't view this issue with the seriousness it deserves--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 16:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• First, stop making offensive comments about me and the other administrators who are commenting in this thread. If you make your point diplomatically, we will look at it in as much, if not more, detail than if you had not. Second, I haven't read much of the discussion here (being too engaged in my own evaluation of the article, as is my right as an uninvolved sysop), so I haven't seen your diffs of that. When I do, I'll respond appropriately. AGK 10:05, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

• I want to point something out for illustrative purposes only. Suppose I made the outrageous comment that Sandstein can not be impartial in this AE because as a person with German ancestry, he is incapable of handling matters in which Jews are involved. It would be offensive in the extreme and beyond the pale to make such a comment, and the person making such comment would be immediately be sanctioned. The situation with SupremeD is precisely the same, nay infinitely more egregious because it is of a repeated nature and the comments themselves demonstrate a discernable hate for a particular ethnicity. These edits are more than just “troubling” as Sandstein suggests, they are hurtful, spiteful and hateful and they foster an atmosphere of anger and distrust among editors. I am asking that these diffs presented in this AE be reviewed with a critical eye and that the matter be treated with the utmost seriousness that it deserves.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 17:47, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Chesdovi

, , , , , . Chesdovi (talk) 03:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

This comment will not be taken into account unless you explain who made these edits, when they made them, and how these edits are relevant with respect to this request.  Sandstein  16:31, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

"The other edits". Do you refer to the diffs I put here? Chesdovi (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

No, below I refer to the pre-2011 edits provided by Jiujitsuguy above.  Sandstein  22:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, below you say that you agree with AGK, that the Arabic edit, on its own, does not demonstrate disruption, because AGK ouldn't find any record of the translation previously being changed. The diffs I provide show that there was indeed an issue with this and SD's latest edit was not made in a vaccum. SD was not content with the Hebrew and Arabic on the same line (Arabic first), but felt the need to demote the Hebrew to the bottom line. (10 Aug 2010). On 24 Aug this was changed back by an IP: "revert. let's not stoop to such low levels... changing the order of the language. are you joking?". It was changed back by SD on 4 Oct, and again straight after her topic ban: , in what was highlighted by Cptnono in her report. Chesdovi (talk) 23:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

These diffs by Chesdovi are interesting, the first diff is from an IP who came along for one day and started making radical changes to the articles, with clearly inaccurate edit summary's like: "against admins decision" and "we talked with the admins and they told us that our version is acceptable.". He also received many warnings: . The second diff is an editor saying: "Reinstating long held consensus about order of languages. If you really want to change this, then go through the same laborious process of reaching consensus on talk page as we did last time." which is appropriate. Third diff by chesdovi; he changes the position of the languages without explanation: . Fourth diff I explained at the talkpage: (Chesdovi does not reply). Fifth diff is Breein using his IP (). He did not discuss his change at the talkpage. Sixth diff, restoring consensus as the position of them was changed without discussion by Breeins IP.

And now basically Chesdovi and JJG just continued to change the position without explanation: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:30, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

And then we have Cptnono who wrote: "Within 3 hours, SD placed the Arabic translation in an article before the Hebrew. Do we really want an editor who does that in the topic area? This has surprisingly been an issue and it seems petty." (As for my own edits regarding this, it would seem only fair to present the infobox as I suggested, as we find similarly with al-Quds) SD continues her battlefied mentaitiy after topic ban. She removes mention of Israleite history from lead and replaces with "Aramean" history. Why not just remove reference to ancient Israel if it offends her? No, she removes and adds another ancient non-Israelite ancient tribe instead. Chesdovi (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I did not remove Israeli history from the lead, I removed biblical text as it is not history and as I explained at the talkpage: , I left the "Gamla served as the Jewish stronghold" in the lead as it is history and not biblical, and I also added Aramean history, so not to cherry pick from history in the lead. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

You left Gamla b/c it was balanced with ghanassids. We are talking about 1000 years earlier. You removed Israelite tribe and added Aramean tribe. Not a removal only. But an addition after removal to tip balance. Chesdovi (talk) 00:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• SD. The diffs that are noted by me have never been adjudicated in any forum. The previous AE that was brought against you that raised the issue of these problematic edits, as you are well aware, was closed almost immediately on technical grounds, having nothing to do with the merits of the claim. The filer, Mbz1, was sanctioned on an unrelated matter and she was unable to proceed, thus resulting in the premature closure of the AE case. Thus the allegations she brought against you were never heard or adjudicated by any admin. You dodged the bullet on that one but now is as good a time as any to get this out in the open once and for all and see how Misplaced Pages deals with these types of edits.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 01:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
• For the record, let me add one more thing. Anyone else who would have made the same or similar overtly racist and prejudicial comments about another ethnicity would have been permanently topic banned or indeff'd long ago.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 16:22, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages and its integrity are important to me but it is of secondary importance when it comes to the issue of racism and anti-Semitism. What bothers me most is the lackadaisical attitude that some people here have toward anti-Semitic edits and comments by SupremeD. So he called Jews "thieves," who cares. So he encourages other users to hate Israel but to use "double speak" to attain their goals, so what. So he discounts the views of Jews and Israelis, qualifying their opinions by labeling them "Jewish," big deal. So he spends his time during his topic ban trying to push a fringe conspiracy theory that Hitler, (of cursed memory) was Jewish, a bit eccentric but not harmful. I didn’t want to say it before but I will say it now in a loud, clear voice. I believe that SupremeD harbors vitriolic hate for Israel and those of the Jewish faith and that his rancid vitriol poisons his editing. I believe that SupremeD shouldn’t be allowed to edit a comic book let alone Misplaced Pages.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 15:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• Perhaps the best reason why you shouldn’t be editing in this or for that matter, any topic area, is this edit, where you attempt to downgrade the significance of the views of the historian Bernard Lewis by placing the word “Jew” before historian. You made this edit in a convoluted attempt to convey the impression to the reader that Lewis’ historical research is somewhat inferior because he is a Jew and can not possibly produce scholarly work. Your explanation for this edit highlights even further why you should not be editing in this topic area. This is how you explained the edit: I added it, the text was about a historian talking about the origins of Jews. So to point out the background of the historian, I saw as relevant. You fail to realize how grossly offensive that remark is. Background, in terms of academic qualifications is fine. However, by inserting “Jew” before historian, you’re suggesting to the reader that Lewis’ scholarly research is tainted by his ethnicity. That Jews are incapable of being objective because they are Jewish and that in turn, makes them inherently unreliable. You are so blinded by hate that you can not even come close to understanding why what you did was offensive.

• You rejected the opinions of a closing admin because of the things he wrote on his userpage and you further state This user is a Jew Therefore Oren0 can not be considered neutral to this subject Tell me SupremeD, what about the things that you wrote on your user page? Where is that user page? I’ll tell you where it is. You had it permanently deleted because you knew that it placed you in the nest of vile hatred and destroyed your credibility as an editor. If that page can be restored, it will reflect how SupremeD truly feels.

• If admins watching this feel that this type of behavior by an editor is appropriate and acceptable, I’ll quit the project entirely because I would have zero interest in participating with people who condone this type of editing pattern.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm no admin, but I think this behavious is appropriate, it is very common to see sources such as NGOs labelled as being say American-if the issue is about America, or right wing when the issue is about right vs left wing ideologies. It helps the reader to know what potential bias the sources have. I too would feel unhappy about having a 3rd opinion come form someone who probably has an opinion on the matter before coming to the discussion, and can you please answer my previously posted question in your own AE. Passionless -Talk 21:36, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Shlomo Sand devotes many passages in The Invention of the Jewish People to discussion of the fact that universities in Israel have separate departments and disciplines of History and of Jewish History, and that they have separated "Jewish Historians" from "Historians". RolandR (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Of course there is such a thing as Jewish history, that is, history of the Jewish people. Are you suggesting that a specialist in Jewish history should be called a Jewish historian? Even if he is, say, Chinese? - BorisG (talk) 16:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Everything here is about context. I challenge you to find one edit, of his many thousands, where SD describes or identifies any historian, other than the “Jewish” ones by their religion. In his thousands of edits, has he once described a historian as Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Baha’i or Zoroastrian? The answer is unequivocally, NO! Now for more context. During his topic ban, he spent his days trying to prove the fringe theory that Hitler was Jewish and that Jews were involved in the slave trade. He also opposed the removal of a section in the 9-11 twin tower attacks that discussed conspiracies including one that described Jews and Israelis as playing a key role in the attacks. This is an editor who is using and abusing Misplaced Pages to subtly further a twisted agenda of maligning those of the Jewish faith and Israel. At first, he was overt about his twisted views as evidenced by his user page which, has since been permanently deleted. He previously edited under a different accounts and IPs and engaged in egregious conduct there as well. Now he claims “outing” when anyone broaches the subject. He cleverly learned how to manipulate Misplaced Pages’s rules to cover his own bad behavior. And of course there are the more recent diffs where he attempts to all but eviscerate the historical Jewish nexus to Israel. But back to Bernard Lewis and the matter at hand. SD’s sole purpose here was to influence the wikipedian reader that Bernard Lewis’ historical research and scholarship is tainted exclusively by one fact – that he was born of Jewish parents. Never mind is academic achievement and accolades. To SD, the only thing that he sees is “Jew,” and that speaks volumes about this editor.Jiujitsuguy (talk) 02:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

There’s are a few more things that I’d like to point out about the Bernard Lewis "Jew" edit that are very telling of SupremeD’s behavior and editing patterns. As I noted earlier, SupremeD has a habit of making substantial and contentious edits without edit summaries. In the Lewis edit he notes the following edit summary, Bernard states while Sand claims? Nowhere does he state that he, somewhat underhandedly, inserted Lewis’ perceived religion or ethnicity. At the very least, that is misleading. His edit was immediately reverted by Greyshark09. Yet SupremeD somewhat dishonestly states in his defense noted above, no one said anything. If anyone felt it was a problem they could have said so, I wouldn't object to removing it. It is obvious that someone felt it was a problem because the edit was immediately reverted. SD also stated in his defense that he thought Lewis' ethnicity was relevant. If that's the case why did he not include an explanation in the edit summary?--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 07:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment concerning SD edit per AGK analysis: AGK concerning this edit by SD. On more that one occasion, I tried to reason with him showing him that the issue of Quneitra and its destruction has been the subject of great dispute. I provided sources which he dismissed because the authors are “Israeli.” There’s that recurring theme again. In the world of SD, if the author of a scholarly work is “Israeli,” (or Jewish for that matter), it is inherently unreliable and must be discounted. Here’s the diff that I provide and includes four sources and here’s SDs response Note how he is completely dismissive of sources he claims are authored by Israelis: the second source is written by an Israeli soldier which disqualifies it right there. Third book is minority claims by an Israeli, no evidence that the author is a reliable researcher. I then reminded him that dismissive attitude toward scholarly work authored by Israelis or Jews had previously landed him in hot water. --Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:12, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

JJG is only telling one side of the story: The issue is the believe that Israel destroyed Quenitra or if it was war ruined, the majority believe including the UN and U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants say Israel destroyed it. The sources he brought were minority believes including from involved people of the conflict including one solider. I showed him UN and other sources showing that its not a "Syrian believe" as he claimed , yet he continued to claim that it was a "Syrian believe": JJg was warned at his takkpage for his POV pushing by an admin at commons: --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Glad you brought that up SD and you were blocked for a week--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 01:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

That had nothing to do with this. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 01:18, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Additional comments by JJG

Just a sample of some of the edits SD made barely coming off his topic ban

• with Edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of Talk page

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page.

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page

• with edit summary, “not located in Israel.” No use of talk page

• wastes no time in removing map of Israel and adopts the position of his long-time ally and now community banned user Sol Goldstone. The phrase “birds of feather flock together,” certainly seem apropos here.

Now SD knows how contentious these edits are and how other users have strong feeling that are contrary. Never mind the fact that the edits were made just after the lifting of his ban, at a minimum he could have used the talk pages to discuss the edits and seek compromise. But with SD, there’s no compromise on the issue of Israel. He made it quite clear that he wants the Jewish nation wiped off the map as indicated by the now deleted version of his old user page.

Coming off his topic ban, SD wasted no time in making numerous edits most of which consisted of removing the name of Israel, the map of Israel, or removing or repositioning Hebrew words so that they are beneath Arabic ones as he did here One gets the impression that it literally causes SD pain when he sees Hebrew lettering or when he sees a map of Israel or just the mere word Israel. It sends him into convulsions. Let me also point out that he makes these edits while an AE is pending against him and his editing patterns are being scrutinized. Imagine what he would do if there was no pending AE. So if you hate Israel and want to see the Jewish state wiped off the map, a sentiment SD expressed on a previous older version of his now deleted user page, then let SD continue editing and let him continue to poison Misplaced Pages with vitriol and hate and ban me.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 17:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Responding to Georgewilliamherbert

George, I very much appreciate your input and have always respected your very sound judgment. I want you to take an honest look at the difference between me and SD. I have not made a single edit to any article whilst the AE is pending. I just don't feel that it's proper for me to make edits while a discussion about my behavior is underway. By contrast, my colleague, SD is on a tear making dozens of edits to the topic area, almost as if these were the last few minutes of his existence on Misplaced Pages. I think this speaks volumes about this editor. The topic area experienced an unusual level of calm during his one-month absence and not two hours after his reprieve, he threw everything into disarray. That's all I have to say.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 21:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

• I am very circumspect about my privacy. SD has now twice tried to reveal my real identity by attempting to link me to an off-Misplaced Pages forum. With SD, it’s no holds barred and he will do anything and everything to bring me down and save his own skin. I am truly shaken by this and anyone in my shoes would be just as irate. I am making a formal complaint. I hope that you take this as seriously as I do.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

SD. I have a real name in REAL LIFE and a virtual name specifically for Misplaced Pages. You are attempting to link the two. You have no regard for the privacy concerns of others. You have taken this AE to an entirely new level because you have now blurred the line between the real and virtual worlds. I am requesting Admin action please. SD is doing precisely the same thing that his buddy Sol Goldstone was community banned for. I am asking for admin assistance please--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by BorisG

Whatever way you look at it, filing an AE request based on extensive research and containing at least a number of borderline diffs (even if some have merit) hours after an early lifting of a topic ban demonstrates a SD's battleground approach par excellence. - BorisG (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

It is interesting you mention that. When I was blocked for 1RR, annoyed, I compiled my own thorough AE request regarding Asad who was in violation of the same. I was intent on filing as soon as my block ended. That was on Jan 14, but I have since decided that it would be unhelpful to do and have let it remain at that, (although maybe to be used in future). Chesdovi (talk) 18:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Gatoclass

Reply to AGK

AGK, what exactly is supposed to be the point of your comments below? AE is not a forum for determining who is "pro-Israel" or "pro-Syria". It's for assessing whether users are editing in accordance with policy or not. Nobody has yet produced a recent diff in this case, let alone a pattern of such, which clearly demonstrate a violation of core policies by SD; the other uninvolved admins have seen no breaches; and yet here you are after combing through a stack of diffs over several days still trying to decide whether or not he or another party has been "disruptive". I submit to you that if a breach of policy is that difficult to determine, it could not be actionable. I think the time has come for common sense to prevail and for someone to close this case. Gatoclass (talk) 11:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I am curious as to your thoughts about Cptnono's original reason for opening this AE: SD's long-term battlefield/gaming behavior? That issue seems to have gotten lost in the litany of "back and forth bickering", although perhaps the bickering in itself signifies the extent of the battle mentalities of not only the accused but other parties involved. -- nsaum75  15:02, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Response to NW

NW, I am truly mystified by your suggestion. This is an utterly frivolous case brought by Cptnono against SD in yet another example of tit-for-tat casing. Cptnono provided exactly one diff to support his case. Since then, Juijitsuguy has dredged up a bunch of mostly ancient diffs that are clearly not actionable now. Recommending on such grounds that both users be sanctioned is simply rewarding mudslinging and WP:GAMING. If users are to be judged on the signal-to-noise ratio achieved in their cases rather than on the evidence presented, then no-one editing in a contentious topic area will be safe from sanction. Gatoclass (talk) 16:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

(Also responding to SD, who asked the same question) I agree that the evidence posted by Cptnono is insufficient to merit a topic ban. But looking over SD's edits from the last few months, I feel that (s)he has been editing in a battleground fashion too often. Perhaps this is normally not enough to warrant a topic ban, but I for one am tired of seeing Arab-Israeli conflicts show up at AE so often. Enough is enough. NW (Talk) 18:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Agree with NW. NW is spot-on here.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Re NPOV; response to AGK and Enigma

I think a distinction has to be made between having a POV and POV pushing. There is nothing inherently wrong with a user having a point of view and editing according to it; indeed, for anyone with an interest in a topic, it would be practically impossible for them not to do so. We cannot sanction users simply for having either a pro-Israel or pro-Arab bent and editing in accordance with their interpretation of the facts. If we did that, there would literally be no-one left to edit on the I-P pages at all.

What is sanctionable is when an editor shows a consistent pattern, not merely of editing according to a particular bias, but of doing so in such a way as to clearly and consistently breach core policies. This would include misrepresenting sources, adding demonstrable falsehoods to articles, adding unsourced or poorly sourced material, placing undue emphasis on certain facts at the expense of others, and so on. As long as we stick to sanctioning concrete breaches of policy, we are on solid ground. Once we start moving away from that into trying to decide whether or not a user has a bias, we are missing the point because every user has a bias of some sort.

In this particular case, I reiterate that I've yet to see any diffs which clearly demonstrate breaches of policy by SD. AGK's comments below support that view. That's why I've called this a frivolous case that doesn't warrant a sanction. When we sanction editors who are editing in accordance with policy merely because they have a demonstrable "bias", alongside those who clearly are not editing within policy, then we are ultimately only doing a disservice to the project. Gatoclass (talk) 04:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy

This discussion is a bit hard to follow. Other than the obvious fact that SD spent his topic ban compiling a long list of perceived infractions by an editor he has a long history of disagreement with, then requested his topic ban be lifted early just so he can file an AE report, what else are admins looking at? I have seen SD repeatedly remove Hebrew names in articles, label people whose opinions are noted in articles as "Israeli/Jewish/Zionist", remove Israel related categories from articles, and other such battleground behavior. If an admin would like me to provide diffs for any of these, I could probably dig some up. Seems to me that the AE filing in itself shows that he just doesn't get it and his topic ban was lifted prematurely. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:48, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm finding it easy because I was involved in it at the very start, when this thread was not nearly so unwieldy. I have posted a list of conclusions and comments in the section for uninvolved administrators; it would be useful if you could comment on that. AGK 21:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

AGK, do you know who No More Mr Nice Guy is? He is very involved in this topic area and edits articles according to the same point of view as JJG, so its very inappropriate that you are looking to him for comments about this. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:02, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know that. I don't give much weight to peripherally-involved editors, but as a rule still invite input from everybody. You should focus on the content of my evaluation, rather than on what's going on elsewhere. AGK 22:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Please note I disclosed I am involved in the topic area (not that it's a big secret) before SD made his comment, as can be seen by the timestamp below. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 22:22, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Keeping in mind I am involved in the topic area, your conclusions seem quite reasonable to me. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 21:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Supreme Deliciousness

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• It is claimed that Supreme Deliciousness' change to the translation was a revert. I can't find any record of the translation previously being changed. And, I see that he immediately opened talk page discussion of his change. I do not see a wider pattern of disruption here, nor any problems with general conduct on this article; if there is one, we will need evidencing diffs, Cptnono. AGK 21:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC

• I agree with AGK. The Arabic edit, on its own, does not demonstrate disruption. Nor does making an AE request that is, at the least, not evidently meritless (see my comment in that respect above). Without objection, I propose to close this request as not actionable. I would also caution Cptnono not to make unsubstantiated AE requests, and Supreme Deliciousness not to make wide-ranging (and unnecessary) accusations about others without proof, as he did in his statement.  Sandstein  00:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
• The comment by Jiujitsuguy does not cause me to reevaluate this request. The two recent edits removing material are not self-evidently problematic, as there may be good reasons to remove any content. The other edits, while problematic, predate Supreme Deliciousness's most recent topic ban and are therefore not actionable unless such conduct reoccurs.  Sandstein  16:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• "therefore not actionable unless such conduct reoccurs" - Agreed. I further think (as an obiter: not undertaking a final evaluation of anybody's edits at this point, per below) that, if diffs of Supreme Deliciousness' editing from before the topic ban are being presented, there is probably not much of a case here at all. AGK 11:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• I suspect that the framework of this dispute may be more complicated than it first appears. Further to the suggestions by Supreme Deliciousness above that there is a tag team operating on these articles, I am looking into this and related articles in greater detail. In the interim, I ask that we hold off on closing this. AGK 11:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• Can somebody figure this out: on 26 Dec 2010, Supreme Deliciousness removes that sentence. On 28 Dec 2010, he removes the same sentence. Between those two edits, nobody seems to have re-added it, so how did Supreme come to have to remove it twice? I can't figure this out for the life of me. AGK 22:04, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

  T. Canens (talk) 22:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

  Thanks, T. Canens, and Supreme Deliciousness (who also posted an explanation). I missed it because the reverted text was underneath some others, more than one scroll-screen down; my bad. I've got quite a lot of notes on the past four months on the article, so I think I'm finished evaluating things. But I've not yet finished thinking over how to solve the problems with the article, and am disinclined to speedily close this thread in the interim. I hope we are okay with holding off for another couple of days. AGK 23:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• My preliminary findings, looking from about Christmas Day 2010, are that there are primarily two editors involved in this article: Supreme Deliciousness and Jiujitsuguy. I rescind my earlier remark that I see no wider pattern of disruption, but I remain confused as to who is the disruptive influence and how is not. It could be either editor. I am also unsure whose edits are in compliance with NPOV and whose are not: it could be that Supreme Deliciousness is a neutral editor and Jiujitsuguy is pro-Israel; or that Jiujitsuguy is neutral and Supreme Deliciousness is pro-Syria; or that neither of them are complying with NPOV. I'm still thinking, but thought I'd post this in the interim to let other uninvolved sysops and the parties to comment. AGK 10:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
  • I think the fault lies with both of them at this point. I think it would be appropriate to topic ban both of them, as well as Cptnono and maybe Chesdovi, per "enough is enough". NW (Talk) 15:05, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
    • As I noted at a previous AE, SD is a recurring problematic editor. He somehow gets his topic ban lifted, only to immediately return to making the battleground edits he was making before. It doesn't look like he's getting the message, but I'd suggest a longer topic ban this time. Enigma 16:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
      • I retract my comments about SD. The edits I was more concerned about happened in Dec/Jan, for which (s)he was appropriately sanctioned. The edits in February show almost a different individual. This still should be kept open to examine the conduct of all parties though. NW (Talk) 15:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Gato: That is completely wrong. Arbitration Enforcement requires administrators to consider the wider impact of a user's editing of a given topic or article, which is what I am doing. The reason for me doing this, rather than examining with a narrow scope the request as framed, is, per NuclearWarfare, that this topic has proved a recurrent problem. My opinion is that we ought to do something now, and that is what I am trying to do. AGK 20:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The following is a list of conclusions I have formed in relation to this article. Based on them, I am convinced that there is some problem with this article, but I am unsure how to fairly or effectively remedy the matter. As well as evidenced contestations of my conclusions, I would welcome input on what kind of sanction is warranted here. My evaluation is based on the article history of Golan Heights from December 2010 until now.

1. SupremeDeliciousness' (hence SD) edits are consistently balanced against Israel., , ,
2. Jiujitsuguy's (hence JGG) edits are consistently balanced pro-Israel., from to ,
3. A recurrent problem, especially for SD, is that his attempts to discuss his edits on the talk page seemingly go unanswered, but are still reverted: &
4. Whilst it can be observed that each editor leans either for or against Israel, I cannot determine whether they do so in violation of WP:NPOV. For instance, if the article as it stands is in violation of WP:NPOV in that it is too pro-Israel, then SD would not be anti-Israel but would simply be re-balancing the article. Likewise, if the article was anti-Israel, then JGG would not be pro-Israel but would be re-balancing the article. It could also be that neither are editing neutrally and that both are in violation of NPOV; this is historically a very difficult aspect of policy for an administrator to judge, because it requires a knowledge of the subject matter. I suspect that JGG is editing quite neutrally, though perhaps not entirely so, but that SD is editing somewhat problematically; but again, this is a preliminary impression as I do not yet know where the neutral position on this article is.
5. Having said that, the volume of SD's pro-Syria/anti-Israel edits leads me to conclude that he is not editing in a neutral manner.
6. Like with many other contentious topics, collaboration on this article could be greatly improved by the presence of more neutral, uninvolved editors. That would solve the problems of there being two camps of editors—each with markedly different viewpoints—and also of there being a limited volume of content discussion. Failing that, general discretionary sanctions or the use of discretionary sanctions to exclude one or more editors from the article is the only option.

AGK 21:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The question about an editor's impact on a specific article can be more easily answered when you take into account edits on other articles. With one article, it could be an innocent attempt to make it more "balanced". With a slew of articles, a pattern tends to emerge. Enigma 23:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

As for the general comments about the article, they apply to the Palestinian/Israel topic area as a whole. The trouble is that few who can be classified as neutral are interested in getting involved. Sometimes it's a lack of interest in the topic, sometimes it's the toxic nature of the discussions/edits. Enigma 23:19, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Taking the step back... Reviewing SD and Juijitsuguy's behavior together, I cannot help but think that a dual sanction of say a month's article ban of both of them is called for in the interests of the wiki in general. I don't know that either is particularly more at fault or particularly badly over the line; the combination of the two is creating a serious problem. ARBPIA doesn't require an individual editor's contributions independently be problematic; if we have a systematic problem we can approach it systematically. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I think I'm uninvolved, aside from being Jewish. However, I have made content edits in the area, but not on these specific articles, so I might not be considered an uninvolved admin. In any case, if fairness requires both parties being sanctioned (which I'm not entirely sure about), SD's prior sanction should be reinstated, in addition. It's clear that whatever he's doing now is a continuation of what he was sanctioned for before, so, if it's sanctionable, then the original sanction should be reinstated. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Enigma 21:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

My reading of the situation seems to indicate that at the very least, SD's editing has improved since coming off the topic ban. What in particular makes you disagree? NW (Talk) 23:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with AGK that changing the partisan balance of one article, on its own, is not indicative of non-neutrality, because the article may have been biased in the other direction. But if an editor is mainly dedicated to editing many articles so as to present one side of the conflict in a better light, and does not make any substantial changes in favor of the opposing point of view, then it is exceedingly unlikely that all the articles they edit are biased in favor of the opposite POV, and the only reasonable explanation for this pattern of editing is a desire to push a partisan point of view on Misplaced Pages as a whole, in violation of WP:NPOV. Accordingly, I intend to henceforth sanction editors whose editing history shows that they are mostly dedicated to favoring a particular point of view across many articles, in topic areas subject to discretionary sanctions, for violating the neutrality policy.

With respect to Jiujitsuguy, evidence for recent systematic POV-pushing (as well as misrepresentation of sources) has been provided in the request concerning them above. I am therefore sanctioning Jiujitsuguy with a six months topic ban, thereby doubling the duration of his most recent ban per my usual practice.

With respect to Supreme Deliciousness, I would support a similar ban if evidence were provided for it, but this request (as I have noted above) does not provide such evidence that postdates Supreme Deliciousness's most recent topic ban. I am therefore withholding action on this request, without prejudice to action by any other administrator.  Sandstein  12:55, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Validuz

Emmanuelm

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Emmanuelm

User requesting enforcement

Itsmejudith (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Emmanuelm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Exempts himself from MoS requirement that quotes should not be in italics, although it was properly explained.
2. I posted on RSN and User: Fladrif in response commented there and also at the talk page. Emmanuelm called him “This Fladrif you evoke as an impartial expert” and rejected the advice that Fladrif gave. Emmanuelm was cross that I had gone to RSN without properly informing him – the only thing I should have been more careful about was that I assumed he knew what RSN was, when apparently he didn’t. Luckily, he did actually find his way there quite quickly, and it is unfortunate that he should then dismiss the role of an uninvolved commentator.
3. Reinstated text sourced only to an op-ed, including the words-to-avoid “notes”, so that it read that WP was endorsing the commentator’s view. The edit summary said the text had been “deleted without explanations’. This is incorrect. I removed the original quote with the edit summary “rm nn commentary”. Moreover, I started a new thread on the talk page, with the comment: “Why are we interested in an op-ed from her? The article has to be based on fact, not interpretation.”. And I started a further thread on op-eds generally, asking for more views.
4. Defends over-use of direct quotation in the article with “WP:QUOTE, which includes WP:QUOTEFARM is an essay, not policy. But WP:NPOV, which includes WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, is Misplaced Pages policy, one of the five pillars.”. He uses policy about attribution to defend over-use of direct quotation rather than summary and reported speech. English may not be his first language and I think he does not understand what reported speech is or how it can be used in neutral writing.

This edit removed cite-needed tags from uncited statements about Middle East history. The edit summary showed disregard of the basics of verification.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warning by Fladrif (talk · contribs)
2. Warning by Itsmejudith (talk · contribs)
3. Warning by Itsmejudith (talk · contribs)
4. Warning by ] (] · ] · ] · ] · ] · ] · ] · ])
5. ...

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Definitely a warning from an admin, with clarification that sanctions may be applied if the warning is disregarded.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The above diffs should show the scope of the problem. The article and talk page show the whole story. I am willing to do more to resolve the problem myself but need advice.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Emmanuelm&diff=prev&oldid=416231055

Discussion concerning Emmanuelm

Statement by Emmanuelm

The following covers only my interactions with User:Itsmejudith in only the article Israel, Palestine and the United Nations.

I am being accused of so many crimes that I do not know where to start. Some of these accusations deserve a lengthy discussion, and indeed were already discussed at length in Talk:Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations. But I have to do it again here. Let's take them one by one:

• Italics in quote : I accept Judith's accusation that, in the past, I wrote most of my quotes in italics. I pleaded guilty in a comment on Feb 24th. I thought this very minor issue was resolved then.

• Nahr al Bared passage: Judith's argument is too complicated for me; I'll focus on one accusation, that I did not take Fladriff's advice, that I dismissed him. Briefly:
  • My text prior to this particular dispute was (Feb 14)

    A three month-long assault by the Lebanese army on the Nahr al-Bared in 2007 camp caused 498 deaths, the destruction of 85% of the infrastructures and 30,000 refugees. The UNRWA report contains no accusation.

  • This text was entirely deleted by Judith without discussion. I reverted. Judith commented on Feb 15th "And EmmanuelM readded text that not only doesn't have a good source but also is in barely comprehensible English." I understand she referred to the Nahr al Bared passage.
  • I agreed with Judith (in my mind) about the quality of sources and, on Feb 18th, I added a second source to support my text. This source was an op-ed, Silence on Nahr al-Bared By Khaled Abu Toameh, Commentary magazine 07.31.2007.
  • On Feb 19th, Judith commented in the talk page "This is what it says on the packet : a magazine of commentary, not news. It's unlikely that it will provide many reliable sources for this article, but I'm seeking further views on RSN." She did but did not provide a direct link to that thread in the talk page nor in my user page. I finally looked up what she meant by RSN and found a thread about my source (Toameh).
  • In the RSN thread (Feb 19th), Fladriff wrote "There were in fact UN Security Council resolutions condemning the fighting at the Nahr el-Bared refugee camp in 2007 well prior to the article, and decrying civilian casualties caused by either side in the fighting. " I had been judged guilty in absentia by Fladriff of "grossly misrepresent the facts", of being "grossly misleading", and of "grossly misus" that one source. I was fuming, especially because my accuser did not even know the difference between a UNSC Comment and a Resolution.
  • To address the accusations of misrepresentation, on Feb 21 I replaced my text with a quote from Toameh :

    In 2007, a three month-long assault by the Lebanese army on the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp caused 498 deaths, the destruction of 85% of the infrastructures and 30,000 refugees. Noting the absence of UN condemnation of Lebanon for this attack, Khaled Abu Toameh writes in 2007: For those who may wonder why there is no public outcry, the answer is simple. The army that is attacking the camp with heavy artillery and helicopter warships is not the IDF. It’s an Arab army—the Lebanese Army.

  • But Judith was still not satisfied and deleted this entire text. I reverted on Feb 21.
  • On Feb 21-22, Fladriff and I went through a very constructive series of edits on this passage. In particular, Fladriff left the Toameh source there; it was good enough for him. I also added a second source (Jonathan Kay) to preempt further criticism. The current text of this collaboration between Fladriff and I is :

    Between May and September 2007, the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon became the center of fighting between the Lebanese Internal Security Force and Fatah al-Islam gunmen. The Lebanese Army was supported in this action by Palestinian movements responsible for security in the camp. Bombing by the Lebanese army left the camp in ruins and caused the mass displacement of 27,000 Palestinian refugees to other camps. The UN Security Council issued two statements during the fighting, both condemning Fatah al-Islam and "fully support the efforts carried out by the Lebanese Government and army to ensure security and stability throughout Lebanon". Khaled Abu Toameh and Jonathan Kay faulted the UN for not condemning the Lebanese Army, arguing that it had condemned Israeli Defense Forces in similar circumstances in the past, namely the Battle of Jenin.

  • In brief, my interaction with Fladriff started very bad but we managed to overlook our emotions and work together. The final text contains about as many words and sources from him as from me. I therefore reject Judith's accusation that I dismissed Fladriff and rejected his advice.

• Melanie Phillips on Goldstone: Again, a complex issue. Briefly,
  • About Richard Goldstone's United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, the relevant text was, prior to this dispute, as such :

    On April 3, 2009, Richard Goldstone was named as the head of the mission. In a July 16 interview, he said "at first I was not prepared to accept the invitation to head the mission". "It was essential," he continued, to expand the mandate to include "the sustained rocket attack on civilians in southern Israel, as well as other facts." He set this expansion of the mandate as a condition for chairing the mission. The next day, he wrote in the New York Times "I accepted because the mandate of the mission was to look at all parties: Israel; Hamas, which controls Gaza; and other armed Palestinian groups." The UNHRC press release announcing his nomination documents the changed mandate of the mission. Melanie Phillips notes that the resolution that created the mandate allows no such change and questions the validity of the new mandate. "It looks therefore as if he and the UNHRC President unilaterally tore up both the Council’s mandate and UN regulations". She thinks the mandate was changed in order to allow a negligible criticism of Hamas "to provide Goldstone with the fig-leaf to disguise the moral bankruptcy of the entire process". Israel also thought the change of the mandate didn't have much practical effect.

  • On Feb 24, Judith deleted the part about Melanie Phillips with the comment "rm nn commentary; op-eds no use for this article". I reverted on Feb 25 and took the opportunity to edit the text to improve readability. In particular, I emphasized that Phillips disagreed with Goldstone and I hid the quote in the footnote. The final text, for now, is :

    The UNHRC press release announcing his nomination documents the changed mandate of the mission. But Melanie Phillips notes that the resolution that created the mandate allows no such change and questions the validity and political motivations of the new mandate.

  • On this subject, Judith and I discussed the worthiness of op-ed (for the hundredth times it seems) in the talk page. I made my case as such "WP:ATTRIBUTE does not say that interpretations should not be used, it says "Biased statements of opinion can only be presented with attribution." That's what I did. WP:NPOV adds: "when reputable sources contradict one another and are relatively equal in prominence, describe both approaches and work for balance." Phillips is a reputable author on this topic and so is the HRC. Since Phillips contradicts the HRC decision, she must be quoted for balance as per WP policy. Emmanuelm (talk) 21:46, 25 February 2011 (UTC)" I have not changed my mind about this.
  • I have been a Wikipedian for more than five years but I simply did not and still do not understand what “rm nn commentary” means as a justification for deleting a passage and its source.
  • Judith's main point here seems to be "The article has to be based on fact, not interpretation". I interpret this as contrary to WP:NOR that states "The term "original research" refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and stories—not already published by reliable sources" and WP:VERIFY that states "The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth". I also cannot find support in Misplaced Pages policy for Judith's assertion that op-eds are not reliable sources, but I do find the opposite in WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV.
  • I therefore reject Judith's accusation. I indeed favour opinions over facts but to do so is Misplaced Pages policy; I should not be faulted for doing this.

• Quotefarm: I find direct quotes to be an expedient tool to avoid accusations of bias and misinterpretation. Remember that this is a controversial political subject.
  • When Judith brought up this criticism, I did embrace it. For example, in response to her criticism about quotes in italics, I wrote on Feb 24 "Judith, I agree with you and would go even further by replacing most (not all) quotes by text, with the direct quote hidden in the reference, for the sake of readability and the " encyclopedic" style." I myself did just that with Toameh's and Phillips' quotes discussed above.
  • I therefore accept Judith's accusation that this article contains too many quotes as described in the essay WP:QUOTE which is not policy nor guideline. But I also believe that, in the context of an article on a controversial political subject, the policies of WP:Verifiability, WP:Attribution and WP:No Original Research override opinions on writing style.
  • I have not contested the very large number of writing style edits made by Judith on this article. It's her thing, I accept her as she is and value her improvements of this dry and ugly article.
  • But, for myself, I will continue to prioritize the contribution of new material and the enforcement of WP policy in this article. This leaves me precious little for improving the writing style. I explained this in the talk page on Feb 24 but Judith was offended by my comment. I personally feel that substance comes before style. That's who I am. I simply ask Judith to accept it.

• Removal of "citation needed" flags: I indeed removed several, but not all, flags. I follow these guidelines :
  • Several of these flags were in the lead paragraph. They referred to statements that are easily found in the ToC and main text where they are abundantly sourced. To source them also in the lead paragraph would require using the same sources twice. The essay WP:QUOTE states "Where the same quotation has been used elsewhere in the article, avoid duplicating it, which is regarded as in poor style." I therefore try to i) write the lead as a summary of the article, and ii) not source the statements in the lead to avoid using the same sources twice.
  • One flag referred to a topic (regional groups) discussed at length in the text below. I replaced the flag with a statement to that effect.
  • Some flags referred to plain facts : "From 1991, the UN General Assembly has adopted an annual resolution allowing the 1967 refugees within the UNRWA mandate." "In November 1967, Gunnar Jarring was appointed as the UN special envoy for the Middle East peace process. The Jarring Mission was unsuccessful." I guide myself by WP:Verifiability : "This policy requires that all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged be attributed to a reliable published source." Anyone can check for themselves that this is true; why would anyone challenge these?
  • I left the following tag : "This resolution is one of the most discussed, both within and outside of the UN." I agree that this statement needs a source.
  • I indeed deleted several "citation needed" flags but maintain that I acted according to WP policy; I should not be faulted for doing this.

• Multiple warnings by others: no comment.

Counter-accusations by Emmanuelm

In the text above, I am responding to accusations as if Judith is innocent and I am guilty. Allow me to counter-accuse Judith.

In this article, Judith repeatedly questions the reliability of sources and has deleted several sources and their corresponding text. I describe two such deletions above (Toameh and Phillips). Others include four sources on the treatment of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon (Feb 13) and one source (Jeff Jacoby) about Antisemitism at the UN (Dec 18). In sum, she deleted far more sources than she contributed to this article.

To justify her deletions, she often brings up the need to rely on "scholarly" studies rather than op-eds. But she never defines what "scholarly" means. Should a report from the Refugee Studies Centre, Department of International Development, University of Oxford, be considered scholarly? I think so, but not Judith; she deleted that source.

In the past, I brought up WP:NPOV on Achieving neutrality :

As a general rule, do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely on the grounds that it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone. Biased information can usually be balanced with material cited to other sources to produce a more neutral perspective, so such problems should be fixed when possible through the normal editing process. Remove material only where you have good reason to believe it misinforms or misleads readers in ways that cannot be addressed by rewriting the passage.

Many times, I summarized the above for her as "Add, do not delete". Far from accepting this policy, she argues back, displaying her misunderstanding of the NPOV policy. For example, in a discussion about UN Watch on Jean Ziegler :

What's the logic of getting balance by adding not deleting? This article isn't too short, so we could do both. (...) Actually, I think it is linked to the over-use of primary sources. People think the right way to build an article is to find primary material and copy it in. And then if someone points out it is biased, they invite editors from "the other side" to add more primary material. It's not conducive to readable and accessible articles, and of course not conducive to NPOV either. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:03, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

In sum, despite my numerous explanations, Judith continues to delete sources she does not like, sometimes repeatedly. In my opinion, to delete an opinion amounts to inserting bias. It is a violation of WP policy and is unacceptable. I have so far seen no evidence that Judith has ceased this behaviour; I consider this to be a serious and ongoing problem.

It took me four hours to write all this. I only hope that something definitive will come out of this.

Comment by Nomoskedasticity

I am requesting immediate enforcement against Emannuelm for violation of 1RR: and . Since this editor has a previous block for exactly this type of violation, I assume no prior warning is necessary. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Emmanuelm's comments about this enforcement request here and here. Emmanuelm (talk) 14:43, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

@NW: I disagree that this is now resolved because of that ANI thread; Itsmejudith has raised a wide range of other issues that I think deserve attention -- not least because of the most recent pattern of editing by this editor. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:59, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Emmanuelm

Result concerning Emmanuelm

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• The issue seems to have resolved itself; see . I think this can be closed for now and reopened if necessary. NW (Talk) 18:32, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• I found the material presented above hard to follow, but there is a clear-cut 1RR violation by Emmanuelm now reported at Misplaced Pages:ANI#Emmanuelm and 1RR on Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations. Since the editor was previously blocked in January for 1RR on the same article, and unless he changes his approach he will make it difficult for others to achieve a neutral version, I recommend a topic ban from I/P of some duration, perhaps two months. Since the previous block was for a violation of the ARBPIA 1RR, I wonder if we can take that block notice to be the required notification. EdJohnston (talk) 16:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

B

BenJonson

NickOrnstein

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning NickOrnstein

User requesting enforcement

David in DC (talk) 03:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

NickOrnstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity#Enforcement of discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. I delete citation to "source" which fails WP:RS and is explicitly prohibited by WOP WikiProject Notability and sourcing guidance.
2. I'm reverted, with "Other must agree" edit summary
3. The next day, given that this is info about a living person, I try again, with explanatory edit summary: "Reply to edit summary in reversion. Others do agree. It's explicit in WOP WikiProject Notability and Sourcing Guidance. If you wish to generate a new consensus, please start that process on the WikiProject talk page. Please don't ignore."
4. I add reliable sources for Jan Goosenaerts, taken directly from subject's page. I leave the other two items on the list without sources. I resolve, to myself, to look for sources for them Not as easy to find, since they have no articles.
5. I discover one Jan G. source is a dead link, and mark it so, indicating I'll do the same on the JG article after I review the other links.
6. I mark deadlink on JG page
7. Nick reverts me again. No edit summary.
8. I request Nick stop edit-warring, on the article's talk page.
9. I make the same request on Nick's talk page.
10. I start this thread, at AN/I. RodhullandEmu tells me I'm in the wrong place. So does Resident Anthropologist, directing me here and marking the thread "deferred"
11. Before I see advice from R&E and Deferral with direction here from RA, I notify Nick of AN/I thread.
12. This series of edits reflect wiki-stalking in realtime. When I realized Nick was going behind me, nearly minute by minute, reverting what I was doing (deleting citations to the WOP Yahoo group and Louis Epstein's Oldest Human beings list, with the customary zero edit summaries) I stopped. But I'm now convinced a more serious sanction than first proposed is in order.
13. Still more edit-warring.

1. Similar pattern, slightly earlier, on another longevity page. I delete OHB list with edit summary: "Not a reliable source, per WOP WikiProject notability and sourcing guidance and, more importantly WP:RS. The page disclaims its own accuaracy and sells books before getting to its 1st entry."
2. Nick reverts. Edit summary: "Others must agree." I leave it alone. Then, the pattern repeats as related above and I decide it's time to get Admins involved.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warnings explicit in ArbCom case and implicit in my diffs above. Also

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Admonition, with promise of increasingly strict enforcement for subsequent edit-warring. Two week block, followed by one month topic ban. Impositions of increasingly strict blocks and bans for repeated violations therafter. I'm not yet prepared to conclude Nick's incorrigible, but he's makin' it awful hard to maintain that stance.David in DC (talk) 03:51, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I think Nick's approach to collaboration and consensus building is best viewed by looking through his edit history. Most edits are made without summaries at all. Others give a topic-banned editor's name, after the ban, as authority for edits. Others are simply dismissive of others' views. In a contemporaneous MfD discussion about a project subpage I have proposed be deleted or userfied (a page CalvinTy and I have been improving despite my view that it's out-of-bounds,) Nick offered this contribution to the discussion.

Explicit refusal to follow the rules and the ArbCom decision

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested:

Discussion concerning NickOrnstein

Statement by NickOrnstein

Comments by others about the request concerning NickOrnstein

My only concern with NickOrnstein is his apparent inability to provide a rationale for his position other than a brief comment here and there as well as his inability to collaborate with other editors as he appears to have the view of "the other editor is wrong, therefore, I will be bold and revert without further comment or explanation". He has not justified why he reverted my attempts to add references to the WikiProject's World's Oldest People's Future supercentenarians subpage in the section I made to elicit a response from NickOrnstein. He has not made a response to date, and he is fully aware of David in DC and my efforts to add citations to the future supercentenarians subpage. So I feel that, at least, NickOrnstein should be warned to be more cooperative & collaborative, than to be bold all the time. Cheers, CalvinTy 18:35, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to get clarification one one thing, if I may. Am I to understand that the RSN ] page is concerned with the reliability of the GRG only and not the Louis Epstein pages, which I believe is what many of these edit disagreements are about? If so, should it be considered there as well? Epstein verifies cases in a very similar way to the GRG, although granted his work his barely ever cited in news reports etc. Maybe someone could give me a brief rationale as to why this is explicitly not a reliable source (ie not covered by the RSN page, where consensus seems to be leaning towards thinking the GRG is a reliable source)? In terms of NickOrnstein and his editing approach explicitly, from observation I would say he does need to try and be more collaborative. --Melissa.vp198 (talk) 19:01, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Itsmejudith

Since the Arbcom finished, Ryoung122 has continued to manipulate a number of editors as meatpuppets in this area. I cannot currently add the links because they are blocked by the spam filter, but they are found easily by Googling for "110 Club Misplaced Pages". The editors colluding include, but may not be limited to, User:Brendanology, User:Melissa.vp198, User:NickOrnstein, User:DerbyCountyinNZ, User:Cam46136, and User:CalvinTy. This is probably the most blatant case of off-wiki collusion ever. Please take the time to review the pages you will find, which contain numerous personal attacks on editors, and discussion of tactics to subvert the ArbCom decision and continue to push points of view on Misplaced Pages. Ryoung122's topic ban must be converted into a general indefinite ban, and the meatpuppets should also be banned. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:54, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Itsmejudith, since you are accusing me as a meatpuppet, I should note that I am not a new user and have had a Misplaced Pages account since 2006. I am only more active in last few days to help assist with the WikiProject subpage and with the position that GRG is a reliable source on my own accord. The recommendation for us to be banned because we also talked about this discussion in a non-Misplaced Pages space is akin for me to recommend that you are banned for attacking me here. Regards, CalvinTy 18:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, I am quite cognizant of what I say in any space on the Internet, and I have not made any personal attack on any Misplaced Pages editor. We are not subverting any ArbCom decision at all. Rather, we are trying to make sure that we understand everyone's point of view and how to defend the case that GRG is a reliable source among other points to defend. Please cease and desist in quoting things out of context. To repeat, I have neither made any personal attacks anywhere on any Misplaced Pages editor nor I have attempted to "subvert the ArbCom decision". I pride myself in being neutral and trying to understand various point of views, including yours, David in DC, A Quest for Knowledge, and all others. What you are doing here is extremely upsetting. You should consider retracting your comment, please. Thank you, CalvinTy 18:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by O Fenian

I was tangentially involved in a dispute or two leading up to the arbitration case, and I see little has changed. Over 20 hours after being notified of the thread here, and without having replied, he is making edits such as this which restores commented out information with no explanation. The information is sourced to messages in a Yahoo group, which is wholly unacceptable sourcing particularly if the people are still alive as some of them are.

I would suggest something needs to be done about this. O Fenian (talk) 01:47, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning NickOrnstein

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Neilduffy112

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Neilduffy112

User requesting enforcement

O Fenian (talk) 09:30, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Neilduffy112 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Revert #1, to this version
2. Revert #2, to this version, within 24 hours of the first revert thus breaching 1RR

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warning by O Fenian (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Block Probably not needed now he has agreed to stop edit warring. O Fenian (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Depending on the definition of revert, this edit made in between the two edits above can also be classed as a revert as it certainly fits the "More broadly, reverting may also refer to any action that in whole or in part reverses the actions of other editors" definition. O Fenian (talk) 09:30, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Neilduffy112

Statement by Neilduffy112

I must firstly say sorry for this, it is the first time I have tried to edit on Misplaced Pages, and on this topic i will not inter fear any further. All i was trying to do was highlight the facts that in the page "martin mcgartland", that the word informer should not be used as it is fact that the subject was working for MI5, Special Branch and the PSNI (RUC) two years prior to him infiltrating the IRA, on orders from the mentioned. I have also looked at the discussion page since, and noticed that I am not the only one whom has tried and failed to have the page represent the truth. If I am to be blocked for trying to correct a mistake then so be it, and it will just show that the "democracy" we live in is failing.
Thank you for giving me the chance to have my say. I do not find the severity of the offence deserves to be blocked, I find a fairer punishment would be a topic ban, but I will leave it to the powers that be. If you are to look at my history it is my first offence. Sorry O Fenian --Neilduffy112 (talk) 11:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Neilduffy112

Perhaps a short block might be in order, but any extensive one will surely guarantee loss of a new editor on WP. Meanwhile, I would suggest a more polite introduction to WP would be well-advised. Giving a "Warning" at the same instant as a "Welcome" seems a tad overbearing at best. OF describes his position on the subject clearly in Also agent implies some sort of legitimacy, rather than a traitor who sold out for money. (O Fenian (talk) 18:05, 3 April 2009 (UTC)) Also NeilDuffy properly used the article talk page at showing his willingness to follow WP procedures here. I note OF has made no reply to NeilDuffy's post. Slack is called for, and an admonishment to OF to be more "welcoming" than was evinced. I happen to feel, moreover, that calling the subject of the BLP a "traitor" may show an intrinsic POV on the part of an editor, while WP:BLP requires contentious claims to be exceedingly well sourced. Collect (talk) 11:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Cough. And for your information Martin McGartland acknowledges he is seen as a traitor in his own book, he talks about money quite a lot too. O Fenian (talk) 11:49, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

It is "bad form" to try debating at AE, as others may see a POV confirmed. I would note your ownership of the article as a result. Now I suggest absolutely no block on NeilDuffy, as opposed to a short one. Collect (talk) 12:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

It is also bad form to imply I have made no post to the talk page. O Fenian (talk) 12:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I do not have tachyon memory - your reply to him was 21 minutes after my post at 12:06. My post was at 11:45. Collect (talk) 14:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Neilduffy112

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.