| Revision as of 13:19, 18 May 2011 editTreasuryTag (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users46,645 edits →Terry (Fawlty Towers): cm← Previous edit | Revision as of 13:24, 18 May 2011 edit undoCasliber (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators200,918 edits :Congrats, so it took you about 3 minutes and 45 seconds rather than 4 seconds. Well done. I'll wait till I go to the libraryNext edit → | ||
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| *::::Better than, "It can't be notable if I can't find it in 4 seconds on a Google search"....] (] '''·''' ]) 11:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | *::::Better than, "It can't be notable if I can't find it in 4 seconds on a Google search"....] (] '''·''' ]) 11:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | ||
| *:::::{{ec}} Thank you for assuming a high level of cluelessness and laziness on my part, but I'm sorry to disappoint you by declaring that I have researched the issue in considerably more depth than a 4-second (or even a 5-second) Google search. For instance, I have examined as many of the which my university library online thingy enables me to, and do not find significant coverage. Many articles are actually referring to ], basically a search-engine problem!, but most others merely mention Terry in passing, often in simple plot-descriptions, eg. "Terry the chef is rushing off for his latest karate lesson..." Even ''Fawlty Towers: Fully Booked'' (considered to be the most comprehensive publication about the sitcom) contains only the barest of references to the character, along the lines of, "Terry the chef has got a 'karate' lesson with a tall blonde Finnish woman."<br>So your ] on my ] are incorrect. It would be nice if you retracted them, though I doubt that's even a remote possibility.<br>I can only re-iterate that if you cannot provide any specific information to substantiate your claim that the subject is notable, then your argument is a textbook ], and that's all there is to it. <font color="#7026DF">╟─]]►]─╢</font> 11:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | *:::::{{ec}} Thank you for assuming a high level of cluelessness and laziness on my part, but I'm sorry to disappoint you by declaring that I have researched the issue in considerably more depth than a 4-second (or even a 5-second) Google search. For instance, I have examined as many of the which my university library online thingy enables me to, and do not find significant coverage. Many articles are actually referring to ], basically a search-engine problem!, but most others merely mention Terry in passing, often in simple plot-descriptions, eg. "Terry the chef is rushing off for his latest karate lesson..." Even ''Fawlty Towers: Fully Booked'' (considered to be the most comprehensive publication about the sitcom) contains only the barest of references to the character, along the lines of, "Terry the chef has got a 'karate' lesson with a tall blonde Finnish woman."<br>So your ] on my ] are incorrect. It would be nice if you retracted them, though I doubt that's even a remote possibility.<br>I can only re-iterate that if you cannot provide any specific information to substantiate your claim that the subject is notable, then your argument is a textbook ], and that's all there is to it. <font color="#7026DF">╟─]]►]─╢</font> 11:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | ||
| *::::::Congrats, so it took you about 3 minutes and 45 seconds rather than 4 seconds. Well done. I'll wait till I go to the library. ] (] '''·''' ]) | |||
| *::::''Update'' - looks like some books on Fawlty Towers are at the uni library, so I might stop by and pick them up tomorrow. Unless anyone else has them on their shelf and can add anything beforehand. ] (] '''·''' ]) 11:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | *::::''Update'' - looks like some books on Fawlty Towers are at the uni library, so I might stop by and pick them up tomorrow. Unless anyone else has them on their shelf and can add anything beforehand. ] (] '''·''' ]) 11:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep''' per my comments on the talkpage when I removed the ] tag. I acknowledge the nominator's concerns, but as I say on the talkpage, ''at worst'' why not just '''merge and redirect''' to ]? I don't involve myself much with these TV show type articles, so don't know the usual treatment of such things (and I'm happy to say he's not a key character), but for heaven's sake compared to many other junk articles around, it's this sort of radical deletionism that's driving away many contributors from WP. Why bother deleting when it's so simple just to make it a redirect? Or do you want to delete that section out of the Fawlty Towers article as well 'for lack of sources'? Give me a break. --] (]) 13:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | *'''Keep''' per my comments on the talkpage when I removed the ] tag. I acknowledge the nominator's concerns, but as I say on the talkpage, ''at worst'' why not just '''merge and redirect''' to ]? I don't involve myself much with these TV show type articles, so don't know the usual treatment of such things (and I'm happy to say he's not a key character), but for heaven's sake compared to many other junk articles around, it's this sort of radical deletionism that's driving away many contributors from WP. Why bother deleting when it's so simple just to make it a redirect? Or do you want to delete that section out of the Fawlty Towers article as well 'for lack of sources'? Give me a break. --] (]) 13:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 13:24, 18 May 2011
Terry (Fawlty Towers)
- Terry (Fawlty Towers) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This character is non-notable, not being discussed "direclty and in detail" by multiple reliable sources, as stipulated by WP:SIGCOV. The reasoning behind the removal of the PROD-tag is especially flawed: "a simple Google search indicates this to have been a real character and to have been played by that actor" seems to fly against WP:ITEXISTS and WP:GHITS, while, "This article is also linked to by about 20 or 30 other articles, which also speaks against deletion," (technically true, but only because of it being linked to in a navbox) is essentially a WP:POPULARPAGE violation. ╟─TreasuryTag►Lord Speaker─╢ 09:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Keep there were only a few characters in the series - maybe merge but I do note the parent article is already 50 kb and could feasible be bigger. Yes we have to find some sources. My "keep" vote is on the premise that they exist. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:20, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Could you maybe provide links to or ISBNs of reliable sources which provide significant coverage of this character? ╟─TreasuryTag►secretariat─╢ 10:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe later. Possibly within seven days. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Well if you can't back up your (seemingly random) guess that the subject is notable – ie. that multiple reliable sources discuss Terry the chef directly and in detail – then your !vote is essentially WP:ITSNOTABLE. If I may just quote from that essay: "Simply stating that the subject of an article is not notable does not provide reasoning as to why the subject may not be notable Just as problematic is asserting that something is notable without providing an explanation or source for such a claim of notability." ╟─TreasuryTag►hemicycle─╢ 10:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Better than, "It can't be notable if I can't find it in 4 seconds on a Google search"....Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Thank you for assuming a high level of cluelessness and laziness on my part, but I'm sorry to disappoint you by declaring that I have researched the issue in considerably more depth than a 4-second (or even a 5-second) Google search. For instance, I have examined as many of the Google Scholar hits which my university library online thingy enables me to, and do not find significant coverage. Many articles are actually referring to Terry Jones, basically a search-engine problem!, but most others merely mention Terry in passing, often in simple plot-descriptions, eg. "Terry the chef is rushing off for his latest karate lesson..." Even Fawlty Towers: Fully Booked (considered to be the most comprehensive publication about the sitcom) contains only the barest of references to the character, along the lines of, "Terry the chef has got a 'karate' lesson with a tall blonde Finnish woman."
So your baseless aspersions on my search for sources are incorrect. It would be nice if you retracted them, though I doubt that's even a remote possibility.
I can only re-iterate that if you cannot provide any specific information to substantiate your claim that the subject is notable, then your argument is a textbook one to avoid, and that's all there is to it. ╟─TreasuryTag►Speaker─╢ 11:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Thank you for assuming a high level of cluelessness and laziness on my part, but I'm sorry to disappoint you by declaring that I have researched the issue in considerably more depth than a 4-second (or even a 5-second) Google search. For instance, I have examined as many of the Google Scholar hits which my university library online thingy enables me to, and do not find significant coverage. Many articles are actually referring to Terry Jones, basically a search-engine problem!, but most others merely mention Terry in passing, often in simple plot-descriptions, eg. "Terry the chef is rushing off for his latest karate lesson..." Even Fawlty Towers: Fully Booked (considered to be the most comprehensive publication about the sitcom) contains only the barest of references to the character, along the lines of, "Terry the chef has got a 'karate' lesson with a tall blonde Finnish woman."
- Update - looks like some books on Fawlty Towers are at the uni library, so I might stop by and pick them up tomorrow. Unless anyone else has them on their shelf and can add anything beforehand. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Better than, "It can't be notable if I can't find it in 4 seconds on a Google search"....Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Well if you can't back up your (seemingly random) guess that the subject is notable – ie. that multiple reliable sources discuss Terry the chef directly and in detail – then your !vote is essentially WP:ITSNOTABLE. If I may just quote from that essay: "Simply stating that the subject of an article is not notable does not provide reasoning as to why the subject may not be notable Just as problematic is asserting that something is notable without providing an explanation or source for such a claim of notability." ╟─TreasuryTag►hemicycle─╢ 10:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe later. Possibly within seven days. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Could you maybe provide links to or ISBNs of reliable sources which provide significant coverage of this character? ╟─TreasuryTag►secretariat─╢ 10:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Keep per my comments on the talkpage when I removed the WP:PROD tag. I acknowledge the nominator's concerns, but as I say on the talkpage, at worst why not just merge and redirect to Fawlty_Towers#Other_regular_characters_and_themes? I don't involve myself much with these TV show type articles, so don't know the usual treatment of such things (and I'm happy to say he's not a key character), but for heaven's sake compared to many other junk articles around, it's this sort of radical deletionism that's driving away many contributors from WP. Why bother deleting when it's so simple just to make it a redirect? Or do you want to delete that section out of the Fawlty Towers article as well 'for lack of sources'? Give me a break. --jjron (talk) 13:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
- Could you please substantiate the 'keep' part of your !vote by listing a number of reliable sources which cover Terry directly and in detail, as per WP:ITSNOTABLE? Thanks. ╟─TreasuryTag►co-prince─╢ 13:19, 18 May 2011 (UTC)