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Revision as of 20:59, 16 March 2006

• /Archive 1: May 22, 2005 – March 12, 2006

Striver

If I may interject, I don't think you commenting on Striver on AFD or MFD is going to help. Use the proper channel i.e., WP:ANI or something similar. On the MFD, you could have just commented about Striver's spam messaging to many other users, but you didn't need to further your comments about exhausting the communities patience. I generally disagree with Striver's method of creating stubs and then leaving until the AFD arrives. I too agree that the spamming needs to end. However, the AFD (or MFD) page is not the place to discuss this. Stick to the merits, or the weaknesses of the article (or portals). Incidently, despite your comments, the Conspiracy project was not unanimous as their was a weak keep, despite the user now regretting doing so. Pepsidrinka 13:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your comments on my talk page. I'll make sure to join Misplaced Pages: WikiProject Peru. Thanks, bye. --Gabbec 16:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

rfc

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jersey Devil --Striver 19:17, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

How amusing to see you do the same thing you told other people to not do --Striver 00:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The rfc rules specifically state that I am suppose to do that. That is why it is called a "request for comment".--Jersey Devil 12:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll give you my support. I think that so far you have not done anything that deserve this treatment. I was victim of one of those too as soon as I started my career as wikipedist. People will forget about that. So far, it seems to me that the creator of those articles has clearly POV opinions. Messhermit 03:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Rfc

Thanks for contacting me with repect to striver's rfc against you, I was very interested to leave my comments and read what others had to say on the matter. It looks like this thing is whole lot of hot air though, no one is paying the request anything more than lip service. I am however curious to know how my name came up as someone with an intrest in the matter. Bobby1011 04:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Review of Striver

I don't know if by that you mean a 2nd RfC on him, or something else. It might be appropriate to attempt to have more people give him advice on his talk page, though at this point I doubt he would listen to me (he ignored my advice when we were on I think good terms, and he also failed to acknowledge the work I did saving some of his articles). I don't know if this would be necessary, though. In terms of identifying further violations of WP policies, the options seem to be going through the contribution history, or doing a wikipedia.org Domain-specific Google search http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en on combinations of terms like +striver +pov, +stiver +npov, +striver +block, +striver +copyvio, +striver +attack, +striver +vandalism, etc. (And neither of these constitute wikistalking, Striver, if you're reading this.) However, this would miss anything that had been deleted, probably.

There seem to be three problems (at least) in the AfDs on his articles. (1) Some people will do a procedural keep on his articles if Striver is named in the nom. This could be addressed by either not naming him in the noms, better identifying multiple policy violations, or identifying a policy that makes naming the creator in fact acceptable. (2) Striver also appears to do "vote stacking," or in any case there's a group of people who are willing to disregard policy to vote keep on his articles (the Shia't Striver - "Party of Striver," if you like). (3) Non-muslims with little knowledge of Islam who vote keep because they are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing since he is "a religious Shi'a twelver Quietist Muslim" per his user page and clearly knows English as a second language. He is, then, not an "average" Wikipedian and his contributions could be thought to be countering Systemic bias. See also Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Countering systemic bias. However, as a non-muslim with a fairly extensive knowledge of Islam (more than the average muslim anyway, who knows about as much about islam as the average christian does about christianity), I don't see that Striver has any special knowledge of Islam. His contributions are equivalent to what a non-muslim with no prior knowledge of Islam could find with a Google search - and in fact are even inferior to that. Striver does not appear to cite to articles or books he owns or consults, but rather seems limited to Google searches. That might not be so bad if he could really analyze the search results. However, Striver's tendancy to copy information wholesale, and not evaluate the reliability of sources, to push POV, to revert edits, and to make substubs that don't even qualify as stubs (and contrary to georgewilliamherbert's claims, rarely revisit and lengthen them), his poor English spelling and grammar, etc. pretty much negate the value his contributions could potentially have.

There should in fact be more articles on Islam and Shiism, and they should accurately present their views of themselves and of others per policy. However, those articles should be created by people who can create at least proper stubs for them that at least conform to WP policy. I don't know what it would take to get Striver to that point, or if that is even possible. Esquizombi 21:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sending you an email

Just so you know, I am sending you an email that will be important reading.--MONGO 08:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Guess not...your email isn't enabled.--MONGO 08:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

It's not working so try again and I'll get back to you tonight...don't forget to go to : so they can send you a code to confirm.--MONGO 16:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Advice

I am not willing to act as an advocate in your dispute with Striver, however I am going to give you some advice.

I suggest, very simply, you stay away from Striver; and when he does 'vandalise' ask another member, such as me, for a third opinion. Thanks. Computerjoe's talk 17:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Your RFC

Just to let you know that the RFC against you was deleted as it did not have the required two certifiers within 48 hours of creation. If you want to preserve the content, please let me know on my talk page or by email, and I will move it to your userspace. Stifle 23:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I would like a copy of the rfc and rfc talk page on my userspace. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 00:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It's up at User:Jersey Devil/RFC and User talk:Jersey Devil/RFC. Stifle 09:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Misconceptions about the Shi'a

You should take note that the previous AfD resulted in a merge, yet Striver continuously reverted mine and Zora's attempt at keeping the merge tag up until we both got tired of his antics, and left the tag off the page. Check the page history. Pepsidrinka 00:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a reminder to put "AFD" or something similar in the edit summary when nominating an article for deletion. Pepsidrinka 04:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no opinion on what should be done with the article. As for the incivility, etc., if Striver persists, you may request arbitration. Johnleemk | Talk 15:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

WP:OR v WP:V

I think WP:V fits a lot of your recent AfDs better than WP:OR. I don't think the author made them up, but rather that he simply didn't cite his sources (and the sources' reliability may not have been assessed). I don't disagree with their listing on AfD (i.e. even properly sourced, I don't see them as belonging) but I suspect this is going to get ugly. Esquizombi 05:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Calling Striver a "POV Hawk" on your user page, accompanied by the text "POV Hawk-The Greatest enemy of the NPOV Wikipedian", is a personal attack. I also suggest that it is not productive to stalk Striver and list all articles he created on AfD. Note that you may be blocked for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind. Thanks, Lambiam 16:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

All of those articles meet the criteria for deletion and thus is not WP:STALK. But yes, you are correct in that such language in my user page is hurtful and I will take that comment out. But I also ask if you think that the user cursing at other users and creating blogs on his userspace attacking others users count as WP:NPA. It seems that all the defenders of Striver refuse to acknowledge his violations of Misplaced Pages policy.--Jersey Devil 20:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Stop being a vandal

On five occassions on my talk page you have referred to legit edits as vandalism. That, in itself, is vandalism and/or a personal attack. Don't be a vandal. Listing an article for an AFD is a content dispute, not vandalism. If you disagree with the listing you can vote against. Not, are you suggesting it coincidence that all those articles you listed for AFD happened to be created by Striver, a Wikipedian you want banned? --Irishpunktom\ 20:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)