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{{WikiProject Former countries|class=Start|importance=|Ottoman=yes|Ottoman-importance=low}}

Serbia Start‑class Low‑importance

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Albania Start‑class Low‑importance

Drač County is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Drač County appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 August 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that in 1912, during the First Balkan War, the Kingdom of Serbia established Durrës County on territory captured from the Ottoman Empire? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2011/August.

DYK nomination

Durrës County (Kingdom of Serbia)

County

• The title is a made-up term of Antidiskriminator.
• Knjiga o Kosovu isn't RS:
• by Jasna Dragović)
• Despite its relative backwardness and isolation, Kosovo’s status as a focus for Serbian nationalism and flash point for armed conflict has generated a large literature describing the region’s history. The Kosovo problem is evoked from a Serbian perspective in Dimitrije Bogdanović, Knijga o Kosovu.
• author of a very influential study called Knjiga o Kosovu, which was published among the numerous revisionist writings of 1985 was Dimitrije Bogdanovic
• Bogdan Popovic was a conservative politician and essayist of the interbellum period in Serbia i.e not RS.
• Milosevic's propaganda newspaper isn't RS. Btw the article constantly explains to the reader the national rights of Serbia.
• As no part of that area was ever ceded to Serbia there is no territorial succession.

--— ZjarriRrethues —  20:49, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

• The title of the artcle is defined according to "Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions. "An otherwise notable topic has not yet received much attention in the English-speaking world... If this happens, follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about".
• Will you please provide link to the RSN which defined Knjiga o Kosovu as non-rs. Btw, the links you provided talk about authors opinion about Kosovo, not Durres or Durres County.
• Will you please provide a link to the policy which support your claim that conservative politicians and esseyists of the interbellum period in Serbia are not RS? Or to RSN which support such claim?
• The text written by contemporary historian Čedomir Antić is published in Večernje novosti in 2010, four years after Milošević died and ten years after he lost all his power.
• The word "ceded" is not used in the article. On the contrary, it is clearly emphasized that this county was established " on the part of the territory of Albania occupied from Ottoman Empire during the First Balkan War."

Taking above mentioned in consideration, there are no POV issues proven or disputes, so please remove tags you added to this article. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:34, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

This is not a subject that hasn't received much attention, but nobody has ever even documented it as an event. Even in Yugoslav works the Slavic translation appears only once in Knjiga o Kosovu. Please stick to RS and NPOV i.e you can't write an article about the activities of the Serbian army and use only Serbian dubious sources by authors, which are labeled as nationalists/revisionists etc. by everyone else. Btw you have only one sources mentioning the phrase, however, as there's no documentation in English you shouldn't translate Okrug to match the English translation of the modern county.--— ZjarriRrethues —  21:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I still can conclude that I was right when I wrote that there are no POV issues proven or any disputes of factual accuracy. Please remove tags you added to this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

In order to remove the tags I'll have to remove most of the article's content. That being said the topic exists only in wikipedia and isn't documented at all anywhere else. At the very most there's a sentence in the partisan work Knjiga o Kosovu about this okrug. Btw the infobox will go too, because there was no intermediate rule between Ottoman Empire and independent Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues —  23:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Since the name had to be made up by Antid, it's clear that there is no such thing as a Serbian Durres County. As far as I can tell, Durres was just part of an occupied zone, much like northern Iraq was occupied by the Americans where they set up their own governors (Jay Garner) and the Americans claimed that Iraqis were celebrating their occupation by a foreign country. The parallels aren't absolute but it would be ridiculous to claim that northern Iraq is/was the 51st American state.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 15:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Full protection

Per Antidiskriminator's request, I have fully protected the article for 5 days in the state it was in prior to the request (i.e., not giving Antidiskriminator the "last move advantage"). This is, of course, the WP:WRONGVERSION (as would the version Antidiskrimator prefers). Please work it out here on talk. Furthermore, please note that this article falls under the general sanctions imposed by the Arbitration committee on all articles related to the Balkans (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Final decision) as such, administrators may impose, at their own discretion, sanctions on any editor working on pages broadly related to the Balkans if the editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:40, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Members of the administration of the Durres within Serbia's county

Besides already presented source, I listed below some additional sources which support information added to the article:

• Dinić, Dragoljub M. (1922), Prvi put kroz Albaniju sa Šumadijskim albanskim odredom 1912 : Prizren--Drač (First time with Šumadija-Albania division in 1912: Prizen — Durres (in Serbo-Croatian), Kragujevac: Šumadija, p. 84, OCLC 555240022, За председника општине Драча: Петра Ђурашковића из Драча. За чланове одбора: Христос Спиру, Имама Хусеин Ефендију и Филипа Серића.... As mayor of the city of Durres: Petar Đurašković from Durres. For city council members: Hristos Spiro, Imam Husein Efendi and Filip Serić. {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |coauthors=, |separator=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |month=, |editorn-first=, |doi_inactivedate=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)
• Lazarević, Milutin D. (1934) , Naši ratovi za oslobođenje i ujedinjenje: Srpsko-turski rat 1912 godine (Our wars for liberation and unification: Serbian-Turkish war of 1912 (in Serbian), Belgrade: Štamparija "Zlatibor", p. 187, OCLC 65691219, а 16. стигао је у Драч, где је био одушевљено дочекан од стране тамошњег хришћанског становништва (On 16th he arrived in Durres where he was enthusiastically welcomed by the local Christian population {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |coauthors=, |separator=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |month=, |editorn-first=, |doi_inactivedate=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)
• Korsika, Bojan, Srbija i Albanci : pregled politike Srbije prema Albancima (Serbia and Albanians : survey of policy of Serbia toward Albanians, OCLC 603117412, Posle osvajanja Albanije ona pod naslovom "Drački okrug" ponosno objavljuje: "Vrhovna komanda je već obrazovala srpsku oblast, koja nosi naziv Drački okrug... Arnauti će dobiti sve slobode, i u toj pravoj državnoj slobodi će se oplemeniti.... After Albania is captured it was proudly announced under title "Durres County": Supreme command already established serbian district which name is "Durres County"...Albanians will have all rights and they will be refined in such real free country {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |coauthors=, |separator=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |month=, |editorn-first=, |doi_inactivedate=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)

--Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:42, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Corruption of some army officers and lost initial enthusiasm of Christian population

There are a lot of useful information about the situation in the Durres County of Kingdom of Serbia presented in this source:

Korsika, Bojan, Srbija i Albanci : pregled politike Srbije prema Albancima (Serbia and Albanians : survey of policy of Serbia toward Albanians, OCLC 603117412 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |coauthors=, |separator=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |month=, |editorn-first=, |doi_inactivedate=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)

Here are some short notes about it:

1. Corruption of some army officers and robbing of local population which rebelled. The above mentioned source explained that there was serious corruption of some army officers led by the commander of Albanian division in Durres. Army was in charge for taxes collection and he organized some of his officers to collect taxes (and often rob the local population) and kept part of those taxes for themselves. When supreme command realised what was happening that commander was forcibly retired but in the meantime there were cases of robbed and mistreated local population which sometimes rebelled because of that.
2. Initial enthusiasm of local Christian population soon was gone. Christian population of part of Albania annexed by Serbia was very happy after "liberation" from Ottoman Empire. They even organized some manifestation in honour of the "liberators". But soon their enthusiasm was gone because:
   1. they realised that all taxes are kept by army instead to be used to finance needs of the local population
   2. that wealthy local Ottoman beys managed to keep their old privileges like there is no change of the system from feudalism to capitalism. Therefore local Muslim beys were very loyal to the new authorities who protected their position and propriety.

But the final consequence was that other local population (lower and middle class) was unhappy with new authorities and after the army of Serbia retreated some of the members of former administraion were even killed, like mayor of Kavaja whose name was Leonida Mineo. Besides him, several Albanians and Greks were killed under new adminitration from the same reason. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

This administrative unit existed

There are numerous sources presented on this talk page and the article (many of them during the period when this article was protected) which confirm existence of this administrative unit. Users who claim that it did not exist have not presented any source which support their claim. That means that tags for disputed accuracy and neutrality are not supported with sources.

Taking that in consideration I conclude:

• this administrative unit existed and this article should have appropriate infobox
• there is no reason to keep this article marked for accuracy and neutrality because no sources are presented which support adding such tags

--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

At this point, I recommend that anyone who still believes that this is a POVFORK take it to AfD. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

The title Durrës County shouldn't be used because we don't have any English-language sources about the subject, but few Serbian-language ones using the term Okrug, which has many possible translations i.e the title should represent the sources, not the user's perception of the proper translation of the title. Infoboxes are used for entities that formally existed as part of a state structure, however, the territory that the Serbian army was in control of for about half a year was never annexed by Serbia i.e there's no Ottoman Empire>Kingdom of Serbia>Albania administrative transition, because until the London Conference of 1913 all of the territories of the Ottoman Empire in Europe were parts of the empire, while after the treaty these provinces of the empire were included in Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues —  13:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

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