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Revision as of 10:18, 24 September 2011 editRussavia (talk | contribs)78,741 edits Undue and POV/BLP information removed from the article: new section← Previous edit Revision as of 11:57, 24 September 2011 edit undoHodja Nasreddin (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers31,217 edits Undue and POV/BLP information removed from the article: This has nothing to do with BLP. This is a violation of your interaction ban. Please self-revert.Next edit →
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It omits facts that the companies set up by Glushkov and Berezovsky relied on a web of shady and offshore accounts and companies in places like Panama, etc. It certainly wasn't an above board operation as has been presented. Try getting sources which are ]. Propaganda is not a reliable source. ] <sup>]</sup> 10:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC) It omits facts that the companies set up by Glushkov and Berezovsky relied on a web of shady and offshore accounts and companies in places like Panama, etc. It certainly wasn't an above board operation as has been presented. Try getting sources which are ]. Propaganda is not a reliable source. ] <sup>]</sup> 10:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

* is an open violation of your interaction ban. Please self-revert. This information is obviously relevant to the subject and sourced to several books (secondary RS). This also has nothing to do with BLP. I would rather not discuss this with ''you'' in more detail, because you are under interaction ban with me. Thanks. ] (]) 11:57, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

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Undue and POV/BLP information removed from the article

I have removed information from the article, as per some previous discussions.

Articles are supposed to give an overview of a subject, and the information in relation to the KGB, as presented, is WP:UNDUE for the article. Articles are supposed to give an overview of the subject, not delve into every controversy. I have dozens of books, magazines, journals, etc on Aeroflot, both in English and Russian (and a few in couple of other languages), and they are benchmarks for information on Aeroflot. Whilst operations for the Soviet military and KGB are mentioned, they do so albeit briefly.

Suvorov's claims are also WP:UNDUE, and are going to require some damn good extraordinary sources. As per WP:UNDUE

If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong in Misplaced Pages regardless of whether it is true or not and regardless of whether you can prove it or not, except perhaps in some ancillary article.

The reasons extraordinary sources are required (and even then the information doesn't belong in this article) are:

  1. If these allegedly drugged and unconscious people were forcibly repatriated to the USSR by Aeroflot, then they would have to check-in at the airport, go through immigration, customs, passport control, etc, etc. It was written in the article in such a way that this was a regular occurrence. KGB agents dragging drugged unconscious recalcitrant citizens through airports around the world, and onto civil flights, would have been something for the press to jump onto. This is especially true, given that Aeroflot flights were not restricted only to Soviet citizens, but they were often the only way for westerners to get into the Soviet Union, and the flights were used by diplomats, business people, tourists, etc. And this also includes flights from Warsaw Pact nations to the Soviet Union. This would be common knowledge, not some revelation by a disgruntled ex-spy.
  2. If civilian flights weren't used, they would have been military flights. As all reliable sources on Aeroflot mention, many military aircraft were operated in Aeroflot livery, but they were operated by the military. The An-22 is but one example of this. Refer to User:Russavia/SU fleet for photographic and written evidence of this. This would then make them not Aeroflot, but military flights. This would have been the only way possible to do anything without public attention, and these would only have been possible from friendly nations.

The rest of Kuzminov's claims are very much WP:UNDUE. This may rate a mention in an ancillary article (as noted above), but in this article it is a minor viewpoint, and that is noted above.

Now, in relation to Berezovsky. And this has been discussed before as well. As noted at Talk:Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)#Embezzlement_and_whitewashing_of_this_article the embezzlement of funds by Berezovsky and associates from Aeroflot is a byline to this article, only because it is not a major event in all that is written about Aeroflot. But it is a major event in the biography of Berezovsky, who fled Russia after the embezzlement came to notice, he was charged, tried in absentsia, and has a sentence to serve. But the problem with the information presented is that it is one-sided advocacy (propaganda) written by Alex Goldfarb, who is a close Berezovsky associate, and Marina Litvinenko (the wife of Alexander), in a book all but published and paid for by Berezovsky. As it is overly COI/self-serving material that was entered, some more reliable sources are required, and it needs to present an NPOV account of the affair, not one-side POV propaganda.

It omits facts that the companies set up by Glushkov and Berezovsky relied on a web of shady and offshore accounts and companies in places like Panama, etc. It certainly wasn't an above board operation as has been presented. Try getting sources which are reliable. Propaganda is not a reliable source. Russavia 10:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

  • This edit is an open violation of your interaction ban. Please self-revert. This information is obviously relevant to the subject and sourced to several books (secondary RS). This also has nothing to do with BLP. I would rather not discuss this with you in more detail, because you are under interaction ban with me. Thanks. Biophys (talk) 11:57, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
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