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Revision as of 02:16, 27 March 2006

Separation

I think that they should remain separate, not for the sake of historical truth, just to help us keep peace of mind!

Izmir article

I did my best.--Avmatso 07:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

Ok, "savagely" may sound inappropriate. What is your version of what happened?--Avmatso 03:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I understand and thanks for the advice (really). My first edit was by far milder than that, and in general I agree that the use of such adjectives can be provocative.

But which words can one use to describe the violent death of so many people? And we are talking about civilians man, not soldiers in battle.

Here is something else that just came into my mind. The destruction of Melos by the Athenians in the 4th century, or the destruction of Thebes by Alexander the Great, make the Greeks sound like the most horrible people in the world? Should the Greeks modify the articles on the Peloponnesian war and Alexander the Great to hide these facts? Should we hide Delacroix's painting about Chios for being too biased?

Cyprus

Why are you deleting the picture on Cyprus? We all know that its the fact. Will you still be able to talk about being neutral after deleting completely relevant information like this from cyprus and adding POV to adana page?

You are from Dagestan?

Are you from Caucasia?

If yes please say yes. 69.196.139.250 03:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry let me reword that. I know your from the USA, but is your ethnic origin from Caucasia? 69.196.139.250 04:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry what do mean by "its from Eastern or Western Euorpe?" 69.196.139.250 04:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish people

Hey, Khoikhoi.I was actually thinking about discussing it first because it is a very important subject but we know the term "Turkish" is actually like American. The reasons for that is,since everybody is mixed and from whole different backgrounds, the Kurds are considered Turkish too,but that doesnt mean the different cultures and languages dont exist or considered. The term Turkish was made up later in the end of the Ottoman period,to unite the people under the same flag because that was very popular in those times and all the nations in the world was united in one country under a name of a race. I know there will be many people that will oppose this but i think this has to be talked about. If you look at what Ataturk said: Anybody who built the Turkish republic is considered a Turk.Also another reason i had suggested that is because there is already a demographics section and since we know the thing called Turkish is actually has little to do with the Turkic tribes despite speaking the language. I hope my English is sufficient to explain a complicated subject like this. (Metb82 13:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC))

Turks Origins

• Sorry i was away.Its weird but I actually never saw a Turkic looking person (short and slant-eyed) in Turkey that im sure has Turkish nationality. I really wonder how come all the people speak Turkish and non of the people show the racial characteristics.I think we should find more information on that.Btw,where is your ancestry from? (Metb82 04:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC))

• • I know ive been to US. Lol i didnt see the same discussion was being made at the same time. Anyway i hope we can exchange information on different matters. Take care. (Metb82 04:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC))

• You never saw a Turkic looking person in Turkey? I guess you don't go out much or even watch tv. There are more than 5 million Tatars living in Turkey. İlhan Mansız, İlber Ortaylı to name a few famous Turks with Eastern Turkic origin. Anyway, Turks of Asia Minor mainly come from Western branch of Turkic tribes, direct descendants of Seljuks. Greeks, Armenians etc. all like to credit themselves for the ethnic origins of Turks in Turkey. The truth is Turks married anyone as long as they were Muslim regardless of their race. Turkish identity was neglected for centuries in Asia Minor, what Ziya Gökalp and Mustafa Kemal did was awakening a nation from its centuries old sleep. Our culture, heritage, tradition and history is Turkish and Republic of Türkiye is a Turkish country. Bilgin yoksa fikrinde olmasın, saçmalıyosun.--Kagan the Barbarian 08:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I am aware of ethnic origins of Turks in Turkey. I was saying to Metb82, the thesis that there are no Turks with Asiatic features left in Asia Minor is false. Tatars in Turkey are mostly Crimean Tatars, and yes they all have Central Asian features, here is one İlhan Mansız and Ottoman historian İlber Ortaylı. --Kagan the Barbarian 07:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Why would I feel insulted. Yes there are Yörük families who still lead a nomadic lifestyle but their numbers became very few. Lately, I've seen a Turkish documentary about the last nomads, it will be a sad day when this tradition dies actually.--Kagan the Barbarian 08:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Email

Check your mail--Hectorian 04:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijan

Same IP is vandalising Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh pages. I reported him yesterday for 3RR rule violation, he was blocked for 8hrs, now he returned with 2 different IP addresses. I reported him again, let’s see what happens. Please keep an eye at Azerbaijan page, if possible. Regards, Grandmaster 07:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Azeris origins are not known. In the Turkic people article, I am guessing you are talking about the map here - and it only shows 'turkish languages' --Kash 10:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

People who speak Turkic languages are Turkic people. Very simple. By the way, this IP had no problems with Azeris being Turkic, he was pushing pro-Armenian POV. Grandmaster 11:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sup

For years, theyve been trying to brainwash azeris into beleiving they are "Iranian". These people are scared at the thought of the rise of Azeri nationalism. Since 1991, North Azerbaijan has been independent and the south azeris are getting more and more conscious of their Turkic identity. That explains the support the Iranian/Persian nationalists have for Armenia inspite of the fact that Azeris are also Shi'a muslim like the persians.

Thanks for standing up to the Persian/Iranian nationalistsKillaShark 08:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yep it is. Azeri and Turkish are mutually intelligible.

Tatar is also very similar to Turkish. There are only minor differences in pronounciations and accent. For eg, the tatar word for people is millat whereas in Turkish it is "millet" .No in Tatar is "Yuq" and in Turkish its "Yok". In fact, if you know Turkish you can understand pretty much every Turkic language to some extent. Kazak is the most deviant from Turkish, and even in Kazak you can pick out most of the words. Not bad eh ?:KillaShark 11:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I havent seen much of the dolgan and yakut languages to make a judgement, but theyre supposed to very different from all the other turkic languages. Check out this site ].KillaShark 06:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but it also excludes Bati Trakya(West Thrace) and the Kardzali region of Bulgaria. This hungarian site is pretty interesting as well. As for the azerbaijanis page, maybe we can get it protected from editing by new and and anonymous users like with the azerbaijan page. Im relatively new here and im not sure of the procedure involved. Can you try it out ? :KillaShark 07:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Help with Khomeini

I reverted it and warned him against vandalizing the page again. That information could be construed as slander. Cheers! --Scaife Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 08:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Look here and add a comment if you'd like. --Scaife Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 21:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman

Hey read this . Whats up with that? Can we really not get him to stop editing Iranian articles? he is clearly racist. --Kash 10:39, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

User_talk:Aucaman#Cyrus_and_Persians This user is not fit to contribute to Iran-Persian articles. --Kash 11:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let's understand each other

Look, I don't know who you really are , but there is something that I need to tell you abouth south azerbaijan page, as you know (or maybe don't know) the people of republic azerbaijan and south azerbaijan are from the same root, speaking the same language, and much more, so these people are being separated using a border just like Germany and Korea, so if you just let me keep that part of the page I'll appreciate you, or if you have something to discuss you can just say it. thank you

Burusho

Hi. The ethnic group who speak the Burushaski language do not seem to have their own article, or else I can't find it. Maybe you'd like to start the article. Alexander 007 03:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

2 different users same IP, same house, there artually 4 users with this IP

Not the same. Assumtion is the orute of many problems my hasty friend! Don't worry I forgive you. Now undo your magic spell.

Successful RfA

Thanks

for the welcome --134.83.65.146 18:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I know there's a problem with it when reverting anons (not accounts). To revert an anon, you have to go to their contributions table and click the button there. Fortunately, those tables are now easy to access. --Latinus 19:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I read at the dev's discussion board how to fix the problem. Check your e-mail. --Latinus 19:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Copy mine - it's exactly the same as yours except it works ;-) --Latinus 00:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I've taken it out - I've taken everything out... apparently, the rollback feature is very demanding and is incompatible with everything else, so I ditched everything else and kept the rollback ;-) --Latinus 00:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Khomeini

You thought the nonsense about Indian origins was weird? Check this out: Khomeinis real father,William Richard Williamson, was born in Bristol, England, in 1872 of British parents and lineage. . ;) SouthernComfort 21:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurds

There are no Kurds in Turkey as well.That's official.If you deny this, it will be illegal.Kurds are already mountain Turks and we've assimilated %70 of them.You are not Amerindian but call yourself "american" and can't speak any other language except for english. Inanna 00:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Was that map of CIA?! I didn't suprised.Now i can see better the politics of US.I can draw you a map also.There is no any country whose name is "Kurdistan".We never permit.After the militans who were weaponized by Turkey end your adventure of iraq, we'll occupy there and "Kurdish Adventure" will be ended also.My government means me? I know where the name come from but more than half of americans passed the ellis island...Inanna 00:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I mean most americans came from other lands, not the native people.That map is lie also.Where are the Turks(or Turkmens)? Weapons of PKK comes from US...Inanna 01:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I am talking about the map of caucasus.Yes, it does but you don't have to.Don't recognize as terrorist if you wish.Our army in afghanistan in case of that condition.US sold the weapons to PKK.However my great people are very successful at using guns and now they afraid to attack villiages again...Inanna 01:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

You mean you want to eat a Turk(me)? :) Did you date? Where? There are no Turks in california(maybe less than 100)...Inanna 01:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Were they called dates?...anyway.Turks in US generally live in italian zone.California is too far away and there is not a large community.Very easy to be assimilated...Inanna 01:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Italians are majority in New York, New Jersey, Massachussets where the Turks also.California is quite big and cosmopolitan.It's easy to be assimilated at that kinda ares.For example, we're showing bubble lives of Istanbul at magazines.The kurds who watch those thinks everybody are like them and flee to Istanbul.Then they are forgetting who are them.Noone can keep their national individualism in here(except for Turks)...Inanna 02:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

That map says diffrent; ...I know my country very well.You don't know here and eastern Turkey.Kurds are poor.No Turks invested money there due to their terrorism.They watch a lot of people who goes to night clubs with their ferraris, porches, maybachs, etc, lives in ultralux manors and goes lux trips in south western Turkey...and think most people live like them in here.However when they flee to Istanbul, they face to very diffrent conditions.They start to think very high cost of living and crime and all their targets become to catch the life.Then they forget the politics and who they are...Inanna 23:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, i found that map here but i couldn't find it again...anyway.That map says Italians are majority in NY and some other states by population.By the way - i don't know the reason - only New York City is popular and favorite in Turkey.The most Turkish students in US stuidy in NY.However, Miami is a litte bit popular also because some Turkish riches have some properties there...

There are more than 3 million Kurds in Istanbul.Kurds are uneducated people and it's easy to decieve them.%72 of Kurds said they had felt themselves as a Turk for a public survey and they are not majority in anywhere...Inanna 22:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

3RR

I am not gonna break the rule,be sure about that!:)i still can make one more revert though...

What help in Turkish people?it seems fine--Hectorian 01:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone is removing the comments in Talk:Greeks.the 3RR aplies only to the articles,right?cause i have been reverting the page to include the comments that he/she wants to delete...--Hectorian 02:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks:)--Hectorian 02:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

This was a vandamism...ok,i got it!take your time...it is rather late here.i did some rest:)--Hectorian 02:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I said in the talk page that i will not revert it for a while,waiting for some more sources about the numbers.i have seen many sources claiming 15-30,000 victims.if there will not be something more neutral or reliable,i will do whatever i can to keep this edit.i'd like u to tell me what do u think about this--Hectorian 19:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Well you are right but

The fact is iranian azerbaijanies since they are under a kind of pressure from persians, more are going to belive that they are turks, which we can see right now, but, abouth the article, every azerbaijani knows that two parts are being separated by the Araz river, so I have nothing to do with azeris, cause they already know that, but when it comes to other people around the world, since they have nothing to do with the history of this part, when someone talks abouth azerbaijan, they mostly think abouth the republic azerbaijan whcih would be around 33% of the real azerbaijan, and since iran's government starts spliting south azerbaijan's land into several provinces which some doesn't carry even azerbaijan's name, I was just worried that in the future people around the world will forget that south azerbaijan is actually the main part of azerbaijan historically, which hold much more azeris in it, so in fact they're like the biggest stateless people in the world, any ways i'll be happy if you send me sometimes things.

• • yeah, you are right, I'm an azeri, first of all they know that they are azeris, but, it's a good question why azeris are calling themeselves Iranians, jsut simple they are living in a country whith being called iran, when it comes to turks and persians, they are not gonna call themeselves persians, may be if you ask from an azeri who lives in iran which people are closer to you: persians or north azerbaijanies, they will find out who they really are, and unlike persians in iran, azeris almost know what people speak in Turkey, so the only thing that separates south azeris and people of turkey is being "shi'a" and "sunni" which was a strong diifference speacially in the past, and since persians are "shi'a" too, religious people prefer to be with persians, but, north azeris are actually the same even after around 200 years of separation, they still think about the traditional capital which was in the south, and since persians government is trying to gatheround people around a flag, is trying to "kill" this turk identity, so they won't have any problems, using media and other things in the south, they are trying to give azeris an Iranian identity, but with simple just simple words from azeri identity, and the facts abouth the history and population, i think they can belive that they are turks, why? cause they are speaking turkish, and persians don't wanna belive it, so i'll talk later

• • well, of course they are shia mostly, the thing is they know and call themeselves turks, but who live in iran, this is just simple, and persian people know that too, the thing is persian government is trying too deny that so they can keep the the country united with a centralized system, but they have choosed a wrong way, maybe azeris belive that they are iranians, but i don't think that they forgot that they are turks too...

• • this is exactly what iran's government wants, they don't feel good saying to be a turk, because there are lots of propaganda against turks and arabs and is being tried to show them as strangers, it's just simple why, jokes are being maded for turks so they don't feel an attraction to turkey, same thing to arabs, so iran can stay a united land, since there have been few ways of showing good thing about turkic people, and because their language is so hard to be read in persian alphabet, they just find it enough to say that they are azeris, but what I think is if some real facts comes out about persians and turks, they have this potential to find out more about their root, and since they have other brothers up north, at least they won't think like the past that they must be part of iran which they knew

GO look at this users editing history. He is a pna-Turkist propaganda artist. Go look at the untrue statments he made. He or she does not sign either; I am talking about user:65.34.171.49. They made a statment that there was one unified Azerbaijan beofre 1918 that is so misleading. What they just said to you is warped. Very warped. Azerbaijanis are the same racially as Persians or Kurds. 69.196.139.250 20:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

• • the fact is persians and turks have live for a long time together, in a country including arabs and kurds and others, but not under a single state. this happenes around 80 years ago actually becasue of existence of the USSR which was a threat speacially for england, russians could get south azerbaijan so fast, which they did in 1945 (i think or 46) and south azerbaijan becomes a kind of separate from the central government, for a 1 full year they build up parlimant, army, schools too with the official language of azeri turki, and they did it, but with soviet support, south azerbaijan's national government could join USSR and this wasn't fair for england and us, so a single state country should be made in iran, and there were two choices, persians or turks which were the majority, since the last dynasty ruling iran were qajar (which they were turks) and iran went bad at that time, so people wouldn't like a turk based government, and also building up a turk country right beside another turk country could be wrong and could casue a new power, so persians were the best choice, and as we can see before that time persian identity wasn't so strong, but there was no limit using their language and culture between themselves, and islamic republic could be a good choice for anti communism, right now there is no serous power from russians, but the government in iran is using the name of islam to gatheround people for their new project! and people don't like the government, all kind of people, speacially because of the the economical situations, and among these persians mostly want the prince back, specially becasue of the good economical system that iran had at the time of his dad, but not all people want him, economy of iran went bad after islamic revoulution and bad relation between islamic rulers at first with US capitalism, and specially after Iran-iraq war which could be a good reason of killing separatist view that would confirm joining north azerbaijan, and after all those at the time of now, some people are ruling iran that don't know any thing about politics and human rights or even islam!, so they still are going with the persian based and this time even stronger method, denying other cultures and type of living, which is a fact, not having respect for turks, which they think that they can be attracted to turkey, supporting armenians which had a war with north azerbaijan, and too many things that if you ask some one in the north west of iran they will tell you, so if there is a big reason that azeris are acting like this is the single persian state, after islamic republic south azerbaijan goes bad, people had to migrate to Teheran and other cities which was because of the pressure from the center, of course when people don't know how to right and read what do you call them? so they had to stay with persians and accept them, but persians didn't accept them they really taught they are savages or something like that which i never like to think about some one like that. wish you a happy spring,

later

• • shah's government was corrupt, otherwise it would stay, and the split between azeris that you said, pan turks are actually no body else but azeris, not unlike iran's government says: a turkish support. they don't need a turksih support cause they are turks, and it's just simple how they are turks, cause they are speaking turki and so many other people in iran, they just want two things which every azeri wants in fact, but there are some reasons that not every body is pan turk, ant those two things 1.their language and culutur 2.the other side of the river.

i can say almost every azeri who speak turki wants this, speacially at this time which they are under pressure, but why not every body wants pan turkism? several reasons could cause taht: some azeris don't know even what's goin' on be cause there is no wide media for pan turkism, some azeris prefer not to do anything and let it go! OK, there is something in the middle with the name of government that got the power, because of keeping the country, they need to give an iranian identity to every one, well who dosn't like unity, so some azeris want to keeo iran the way that it has been, among azeris those people who speake farsi more and better than turki are more interested in iranian nationalism, but since the the world is growing, turki speaking azeris find more now that their language and culture was under a kind of attack, they collect documents, campare and analyze them and they see that whatever happend wasn't that fair for azeris. so they try to awake other azeris, and iran dosn't like this because it doesn't cause unity in their way, but the whole system got problems, some azeris want north azerbaijan in iran, some azeris want to get separated, and for sure persians think about themeselves too, so this is a huge mess speacially after kurd are getting into the region, so i just wish that world ends before something terrible happenes, i don't want even a scratch on any human.

• • People are all the same, education and situations make the changes, iranian azeris as i know are not persianized, specially people who live in south azerbaijan, they just need to be informed, since they have the background, as soon as they find some modern azeri style arts, some good things under their own culture and music, they are ready to forget persians, since iran's government is preventing these movements, i guess they are not even informed what's goin' on in the world, they don't have media that every body can access to them, their famous azeri website directory has been filtered, satellite dishes are illegal, they need a strong source of information, like media and tv, which should be able to affect youth specially, they want to be themselves but they can't make culture, they can't even read and write, they need to be informed that, that was their fault, governmental tv should be removed and local modern turkish tv comes out, they won't go toward islamic leaders again, they are so interested in music, and speacially modern techno and dance musics, in one word they need make culture first, after that they can handle most of the things, power should be transfered to youth, they need to feel safe, they can handle it in that case.

• • I don't know about the eralier history, but, recent history shows a lot of major movements in Tabriz, even persians belive that Tabriz is the revoulutionary city of iran, they track tabriz with a special eye, this is what i'm gonna say: during the past, i don't know anything, i just can see that persians are trying to destroy this government since 1980, with a large media network and former prince and too many other things that they have made a large colony in Los angeles now, but azeri movement after iranian revolution 1979, has just started and it's not even a year, and iran's government is more scared of that than persians, because what i think is unlike persians that make an enemy from the government in their mind, and most of them want the monarchy comes back, azeris are enemy with the whole system, they see the government as a diffrent nation, and being patriotic is definatly a truth, persians are thinking about a big and united country under their domination that holds neighbor countris too! but azeris are more interested in their land, so who can be more patriotic here? we can see this in iran-iraq war too, azeris had more deaths, because they fight for something, they belive that if they don't fight there, enemy will kill them and their family in their own house, and the language makes the diffrence here, the way of thinking that they have is a special accent of turkic that makes a serious person, in other words, comparing persians, they have their own world.

Re:question

Hi - report to Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress, or of any administrator you know is online right now. Rama's Arrow 07:58, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Be careful about 3RR - avoid dealing with the anon and let an admin tackle him/her. Rama's Arrow 07:58, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

yes. Rama's Arrow 07:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

only when I'm around. Glad to be of help. Rama's Arrow 08:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...Go to Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in ProgressI'm surprised that no admin has attended to the situation. Just be careful you don't fall for the 3RR. If you know any admin to be online, buzz 'em. Otherwise we can alternately keep reverting until an admin finally steps in. Rama's Arrow 08:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Took care of it I believe. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 09:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad. Gotta sign-off myself. Take care! Rama's Arrow 09:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Template vandalism

Hey Khoikhoi - I don't feel comfortable blocking either of those IPs, since neither of them have vandalized since their last 'test4' warning. I'll leave them both listed on AIV for the moment however, in case things flare back up. Alternatively, if this is a longer-term problem, you could request that the page be temporarily semi-protected. I'd be happy to do so, if things are becoming too much to bear. Cheers! --PeruvianLlama 09:13, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, glad it's been taken care of! --PeruvianLlama 09:13, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Edit summaries

You have the best edit summaries, especially in AFD. Keep up the good work. Punkmorten 10:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Adana

I added a comment in his talk page.i find it a good idea to re-add the paragraph(without a number).only about the 1909 events.i think,we have to make it clear...--Hectorian 19:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Adana is now locked. . I will try later. Odysses (☜) 15:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Rollback

It was working great last week, but then I tried using it against some nice trolls at Hugo Chavez — it kept giving error messages, so I had to restore the popups code to be able to quickly revert them. It'd be great if you could help me do the fix. Thanks. Saravask 22:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks — it's working now; I just used it to revert a nothing change to Saffron by Bobblewik. Saravask 22:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, don't revert his edits (for obvious reasons). --Latinus 23:35, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I replied - BTW don't go over the 3RR, that's what he wants. --Latinus 23:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Check again... --Latinus 00:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW do you think you could do your bit to what hasn't been cleared up belonging to 62.162.14.36 (talk · contribs · block log). --Latinus 00:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Jo. --Latinus 00:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You got mail :-) --Latinus 01:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

And again... --Latinus 01:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

And again... --Latinus 01:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/62.162.14.36

Pull my name out of a hat or something? Hehe. I have reviewed the situation and believe you are right, so I have blocked the second IP (User:62.162.14.122) for block evasion and continuing to revert even after violating WP:3RR. --W.marsh 02:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry,i won't.--Hectorian 02:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I know...he is above my comment!can u rv Turkish people?--Hectorian 02:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Both are already done by someone else.--Hectorian 02:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Haha...nice comment on his talk page!:)i guess he'll keep an eye too--Hectorian 02:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't help it!i liked his comment a lot!!!: 'number vandal'...lol--Hectorian 02:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I just found out were u got your username from:)--Hectorian 03:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting...both of them.i was curious...--Hectorian 03:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Nezami

Well, the article seems fine, but the issue of "Azerbaijani origin" is a bit complex. He was born there, but he wasn't necessarily an ethnic Azeri (who back then were not Turkic, of course). The article states in the same paragraph that his father was from Qom and that his mother was a Kurd, so that is contradictory. BTW, an anon added the bit about being "Azerbaijani." It should probably be deleted, IMHO. SouthernComfort 04:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Some of the links there provide some interesting insights, such as this one. The Britannica article doesn't say anything about his ethnicity. SouthernComfort 04:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I know, it's typically a very sensitive topic since they are today a Turkic-speaking people, but before the Turkic arrival they spoke Iranian languages. Zereshk is half-Azeri and also very knowledgeable about pre-Turkic Azeri history and language. As to whether or not Azeris consider themselves Turkic, I think that depends entirely on the individual, and especially where they are from. For example, an Azeri from Azerbaijan is obviously going to have a very different view of things than an Azeri from Iran. I can tell you that in Iran, many Azaris (Persian form of "Azeri") often don't like to be called "Turks" ("Torke" in Persian) even though many other Iranians refer to them as such, and sometimes it is used as an epithet. I personally never use the term "Turk" at all, and instead always use "Azari" to be respectful. SouthernComfort 04:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Your welcome. =) That was probably a good idea to change from "Turkic" to "ethnic group" - one of the difficulties with that article is due to the fact that Azeris are both in Iran (where the majority are concentrated) and the Republic of Azerbaijan. So it is certainly difficult to balance the various POVs. SouthernComfort 04:54, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this is total crap, especially when the Columbia reference uses "Aryan tribes." I mean, come on, there is a limit to this sort of thing. There are plenty of Iranian references, but we're talking about books here, and they're in Persian. This is stupid to have to "prove" that the term is widely used in Iran and/or India, because it's just a given. Even the idea of the footnote is absurd because the term, as it relates to Iranians, has absolutely nothing to do with Nazis and as I've told him countless times, the Aryan article goes to great lengths to explain everything so any footnotes are totally unnecessary. Does he think WP readers are idiots? I'm not willing to accomodate this crap, and we should not be expected to play along just because he has a bias. We're not in grade school here. SouthernComfort 05:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

This is the link to the Britannica article that Gol mentions - even there they disambiguate between the Aryans of Iran and India and the "Aryan race" theory of the Nazis that Germans and Europeans were also "Aryan" (which any sane person knows is absolute bullshit). It's one thing if he is totally misguided, but it is quite another to continue these attempts at blatantly deleting sourced information while not only claiming otherwise, but also incorrectly defining the term in question. I'm not sure what his problem is. SouthernComfort 05:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, he may claim that he sees it as evidence of "anti-Semitism" on WP, but I don't think this is the case. I have never, ever heard anyone, no matter their ethnic or religious background, complain about the ancestors of Iranians and Indians being called "Aryans." And why not? Because that is what they were called! LOL Man, it's just so stupid I can't believe we're even discussing this bullshit to death. Funny thing about the swastika - it's not exactly a holy symbol in Iran, but apparently it's considered a good luck charm. They sell them in a lot of jewelery stores. The first time I saw one, a long while back, I thought to myself, "WTF is this Nazi shit doing here?!" I asked the guy behind the counter (mentioning the Nazi connection) - he had no damn clue as to what the hell I was talking about! SouthernComfort 05:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I've come across that website before - they love to go on and on about how Iranians and northern Indians are of Aryan descent, but that we are no longer "pure." And of course, the Nordics are the most "pure" Aryans. It's incredible that there are quite a number of idiots who buy into that BS. What's even more incredible is that they deceived an entire nation of people into believing this ideology which led to WW2 and the Holocaust. And many people today here in N. America and Europe still equate the term "Aryan" with "Nordic" - instead of helping to correct such perceptions, Aucaman seems to want to preserve the racist definition used by the Nazis - because that is exactly what he is doing by attempting to disconnect "Aryan" from "Iran" on WP. All that does is keep people ignorant. As for Reza Shah, some have alleged that he changed the international name at the urging of the Germans, but it's just a theory and has never been proven. That article about the so-called "naming dispute" is incredibly POV. SouthernComfort 05:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Grandmaster

NO, he is not really reasonable, I patiently explained everything to him, and respectuflly added dispute tags, but he simply dismissed everything. YOu are just covering your buddy as I see it, you have not been very objective. Do not forget that Karabakh includes Arran, a disputed region.

I am willing to give it one more try, and he should too, but if your friend persist, I will continue my fireworks. I find it a lot more fun vandalizing and blowing off steam than reasoning with the unreasonable.

Sincerely,

My RFA withdrawal :(

Hello Khoikhoi, it is my apologies to bring you that I've withdrawn my RFA. Due to the lack of experience, I would go under admin coaching first before trying again later. I would thank you for your vote in this RFA whether you voted support, oppose or neutral for me. I appreciate your comments (if you do have) you made and I hope to see you here in future. --Terence Ong 05:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

My RFA

Persian New Year

Diyako has changed the page "Newroz" from being a redirect of Norooz to a new article of its own. I'm not sure what to do about this. This is the same historical event and holiday which is referred to in English as "Persian new year" and celebrated by Kurds, Azeris, Persians and people of Baha'i faith, but Diyako is using the local different pronunciation to create the illusion that this is a different festival when it's not. This is like claiming that the French pronunciation of Christmas is a different festival and holiday than Christmas! --ManiF 18:23, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I am begining to have a headache over this.. he has just created Nevruz. I am not sure if its necessary at all. The only link he is using is as reference is: which clearly says:

"Nevruz, a composite noun combining Nev (new) and Ruz (day), means new day and is a mythologic day celebrated as New Year’s Day by Turks living in Central Asia, Anatolian Turks and Persians."

It's the same thing, sure the people have different ideas of its origins but its basically 'New day'/'New years' festival in the middle eastern and central asian countries. I think it's best to focus all the effort in to one article. The central day for Norouz is 21st (in 2 days) and if we can't get this right then I am gonna be very dissapointed. I would like to know your view on this. --Kash 20:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

If you are not farsi and claim you know nothing on Kurdish traditions and Turkic and Farsi traditions how you suggest to merge??!! If you can write the text you will see that they are different. educate yourself a little. and remember that since centuries there has been always biased action from farsis towards Kurds and their other neighbours such as Turks and Arabs. many farsis think their religious land is center of the world but they do not know that their neighbours do not think so. some farsi users here on wiki should learn themselves to respect other cultures. and you should try to be more serious if you are not farsi.Diyako Talk + 21:06, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You can mention the Kurdish Newroz in the norouz article. Diyako Talk + 21:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

As I said you can mention the Kurdish newroz in the norouz article but Kurdish Newroz which still is a stub will remain. The Kurdish Newroz will be soon expanded three times more or even more. but you are welcome to mention the Kurdish Newroz in the norouz article.Diyako Talk + 21:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

InShaneee explicitly warned Diyako not to use the derogatory term "Farsi" to refer to Persian people. Prhaps, you could take this issue up with InShaneee. --ManiF 00:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey man, I am amazed by some honesty of this user (Bertilvidet), read his comment here. I was suspicious when I saw the pics, but I think this clearly shows the root of where all this came from. I think for Kurds to promote their independance, they are creating a sense of culture and "national" identity, which is where all this new and almost shocking things are coming from. First..Kurds are not Iranian (OK), second..Kurds language is different to Persian (OK!) and now..Norouz? what Norouz!..Kurds celebrate Newruz!! and its TOTALLY different! hehe. Well anyway to conclude, the pictures are from a political rally, I am not sure about how to deal with the article now, the honest user has a different idea about how to deal with the article, he wants to make it obvious that this is almost if not totally a political thing. But I am not sure if he wants to go about changing it.. and I really don't want to put more fuel on this fire --Kash 00:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Smurrayinchester's RFA

Thank you, Khoikhoi/Archived
	for voting in my RFA. It passed with a result of 100/1/0. Thanks for your vote! If you have any comments, please say so here.

User:Diyako is trying to make an alternative ficticious definition of Newroz

User:Diyako has created an article on a Turkic-Nowruz without mention of its Iranian history and roots. Soon we will here Nowruz has nothing to do with Iran too. His article is Nevruz. This should be merged or edited properly. He has gone on the Turkish discussions to promote it.

Here is what user:Diyako has written;

Nevruz is the spring festival among Turkic-speaking nations, from Turkey to Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc. It is very similar to the Iranian festival of Norouz.

According to Turkish legends Nevruz dates back to era of Gökturks.

Th user Diyako is definnityl anti-Iranian and has an anti-Iranian agenda.

Nevruz is not very similar to the Irnian festival of Norouz it is Norouz!

He has claimed the Kurdish flag has nothing to do with Iran and is a crime to fly in Iran. The Kurdish flag is based on the Iranian flag it is even in the memories of the founders of the Mehbad Republic who wanted to showcase their Aryan and Mede heritage. Back then Kurds only had a oral history about their only know ancestors the Mede and Mede heritage, before other ancestors were accepted. The Sun is also very significant element of ancient Iranian and Zorasatrianism. Diyako is misleading everyone. Go to Kurdistan 20 years ago let alone 50 they will say we are Aryans and our own blood relatives are the Persians. The Kurdish flag is not banned in Iran and is based on Iranian colours. This user also claims the Iranians are only a lingustic group after he saw that the tide was against him that Kurds are in definition an Iranian people so he worked to undermine the definition of Iranian people and even Persians with user:Acuman.

69.196.139.250 21:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The russion version of christmas has not its own article has nothing to with the Kurdish Newroz article. Kurdish Newroz is different than Farsi Norouz and deserves its own article. also farsi users have their own pov who may claim Adam and Eve were farsi or as they say Iranian. If you still think the POV of some farsis is more important for you then you can nominate the Kurdish Newroz for deletion. Sure there are more neutral wikipedians than you farsis.Diyako Talk + 21:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

First the difference of Kurdish Newroz and farsi Norouz is axplained in the article. You maybe still have not read it neutrally but try once. second as I had provided many sources in the talk page of persian people the real name of modern persian people is Farsi you can look at them if you have not done. as fars as i remember particularly tghos persians who call arabs lizard-eater refrain to call trhem farsi.

PS: I think I know you khoikhoi! Diyako Talk + 21:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There was a warning issued about the use of "Farsi" and I think you are trying to be disrespectual and provactive with the term Farsi and Farsi Noruz. COnsider this a warning. Secondly there is no such thing as Farsi Noruz. There is only one Noruz which is celebrated by all Iranian people and people of Iranian culture. You stated Nevruz was similar to Noruz. NO IT IS NORUZ, just in another language. 69.196.139.250 21:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

He keeps using the term after he was told it is offensive he is instigating problems. This guy needs to be reported.

69.196.139.250 21:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You can merge the Nevruz but not The Kurdish Newroz. If you see no difference between Kurdish and Newroz and Iranian Norouz then nominate it for deletion.

Yes I meant in English. I know soon will say who are you. Diyako Talk + 21:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The merge tag definitely should stay on those pages. But I think we dont need to personally get involved and turn up the heat on this one. Diyako will no doubt come under alot of pressure for what he has done this time. Or....we could make an AfD page for it and see what happens?--Zereshk 21:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm currently working on having Norouz appear on the front page on March 21st. Currently, it's not scehduled to even be mentioned!--Zereshk 21:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Zereshk offered a good suggestion, you can nominate it. Diyako Talk + 22:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Firstly they don't call it Nevroz in Turkey. Secondly it is Noruz as it is called in these are areas that were once a part of the Iranian EMpire and reflect that through either culture, language or ethnicity. Have your intro reflect that. It is what they call Noruz. It is not a different celebration. Yes variations exist as they do with Christmas from country to country, but it can not be categorized as its own celebration.When you state it is similar to...it means it is seperate. This is not a seperate anomily. It is the same thing under a different name. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Make the intro it is the title of Noruz in theses areas. By the way Central Asia, i.e. Uzbekistan, have large Persian or Persian-related populations.

Firstly they don't call it Nevroz in Turkey. Secondly it is Noruz as it is called in these are areas that were once a part of the Iranian EMpire and reflect that through either culture, language or ethnicity. Have your intro reflect that. It is what they call Noruz. It is not a different celebration. Yes variations exist as they do with Christmas from country to country, but it can not be categorized as its own celebration.When you state it is similar to...it means it is seperate. This is not a seperate anomily. It is the same thing under a different name. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Make the intro it is the title of Noruz in theses areas. By the way Central Asia, i.e. Uzbekistan, have large Persian or Persian-related populations. 69.196.139.250 22:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Make sure it is clearly identified as Noruz. It is not similar to Noruz, it is Noruz. I don't even see why there is a need to make a seperate article. In fact all the Central Asian states, Iran, Turkey, the Republic of Azerbijan, and Iraq (representing Kurdistan) filed to have it recognized by UNISCO this year under the name NORUZ, therefore it is one and the same.

here is the proof. All these countries regestered it together as one celebration under the name of Nowruz.

http://www.payvand.com/news/05/apr/1107.html

69.196.139.250 22:16, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Azeri

The Azeris in Iran think of themselves as ethnically Azeri, but definitely also Iranian as well, no doubt. Think of Texas: they are proud of being recognized as discrete and separate ("the lone star state", the "Republic of Texas"), and yet they want to be American as well.

See Tabriz's page for example. Tabriz has always been one of the most patriotic Iranian cities in history. There are more Nationalist Iranian revolutionaries from Tabriz than any other Iranian city in recent history (except Tehran of course. But even then, you'd be surprised at the number of Azeris even in Tehran :) ).

But then again, we like our Azeri-ness to be recognized too. In that sense we are Turkic. But we are definitely Iranian too. (remember that Turkic and Turkish are not the same thing. We are definitely not Turkish).--Zereshk 22:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Aha, if you mean that, then yes, I would agree with "an Iranian people with a Turkic language". I didnt think you had the ethnic part in mind in your question.--Zereshk 23:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Swift action

No problem. Just doin' my job. :) --InShaneee 02:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Not really specializations per se, more just our areas of interest and what kinds of stuff we look out for. William probably watches the page where 3RR violations are reported, while I really don't keep track of it. Yeah, lately personal attacks have been my thing (usually I prefer to take care of pages to be Speedy Deleted), but I really do believe that a peaceful wiki is a productive wiki, so it is something I'll dive into when I see it needs taking care of. What can I say but us admins rarely have trouble finding stuff that needs doing. :) --InShaneee 02:28, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

HOw DO you send e-mails?

Heu tell me how to send e-mails. Manik666 02:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I still do not see it

Urs Kiddo! Manik666 02:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

My Rfc

Please comment on my Rfc. Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jersey Devil--Jersey Devil 02:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman

Thank you for your comments. You may either add more detail to my talk page, or add a statement to the RfAr. I will try to work this as best I can. Robert McClenon 03:05, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I still don't see the e-mail part. It is on user page bottom right. What is it titled?

By the way Diyako is using bogus blank pages are verification for statments in Kurdistan. Manik666 03:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

It tells me I must be logged in and have a valid e-mail address. I am logged in. What is the problem? Manik666 03:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Religion in Azerbaijan

Yes, you are right it is a copyvio as well abakharev 08:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi. The guy who posted the article is the owner of that website, so it is not copyvio, he owns that material. Grandmaster 08:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Har Roozetan Norouz, Norouzetan Pirooz هر روزتا ن نوروز , نوروزتان پيروز . Amir85 13:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

email

Right back at ya! --Kash 01:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

- and again! --Kash 02:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Taylor Lea Thomas

Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know that the article on Taylor Lea Thomas has undergone significant changes and will continue to improve with time. I appreciate you reading the article in the first place. We are trying all we can to make the article better suited for Misplaced Pages because Ms. Thomas has accomplished a lot and has received many awards and press for it and therefore, appropriate for this medium. I hope that you will soon see this for yourself and opt instead to keep the article. Thank you kindly. Peter Sanders 14:15, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Your vote for deletion of article Bhai Makhan Shah

Dear Sir:

Further to your vote to delete my article, Bhai Makhan Shah, I would like to bring the following to your attention and present this for the record:

You may be aware that this article was tagged by Joe for speedy deletion because he thought that the article "appears to be a fictional story" at 2:58. He had however, failed to notice that the article began with: "Makhan Shah Lubana (also written as Lobana) was a devout Sikh and a rich trader from Tanda district Jhelum (now in Pakistan)..…" – If this was a fictional story, would it refer to "(now in Pakistan)"?

Further, mid-way down the article is the line "He then recited this Shabad of Guru Arjan Dev:" followed by the sacred hymn by the fifth Sikh Guru – Now surely if you are not even aware of the Gurus of the Sikhs, do you have the right to make any judgement on this article or any other article linked to Sikhism?

He was wrong but he realised his mistake and rightly and honourably retracted from that position. However, he did not completely re-evaluate his position as he almost instantly put an AfD notice on the article.

If Joe had the "well-being" of Misplaced Pages at heart, surely it does not take more than a few seconds to search for "Makhan Shah" on Google to see if this is fiction or fact! – If he had done this, he would have found 654 hits and the first article is at: www.Sikh-History.com – Do I need to say more! – I don't think you would find fictional stories on a history website. Under the circumstances, the comment by you that this is "original research" is unbelievable!! 654 hits with Google and you think that this is original research!! This is a record of historical events that took place in about 1620AD. And what is surprising is that User talk:Royboycrashfan are supported by User:TBC and you. Blindly following the leader?? and it "smells of original research or a school project" ??

Following my comments on the discussion page highlighting that this article was a example of a Sakhi (ie: Historical Record), which are very popular in Sikhism at 3.09, Jow quickly changed the article to AfD status at 3.13 saying that this was because "text is a Sikh story taken from www.srigurugranthsahib.org website". So in 4 minutes he had read the 2 articles of over 1250 words each and done a proper comparison of the two articles. I am sorry but I don't think this is how articles should be judged - Someone spending less than 4 minutes to evaluate an article that may have taken a few days to create from various resources. Why should someone who appears to have no knowledge of the subject matter, is completely anti-religion and has spent very little time researching the subject take such a step? I wonder?

Having read the Misplaced Pages:Guide to deletion, I believe that the comments made by Joe – "only that the fashion in which it is currently presented is non-encyclopedic" does not appear to be reason for articles to be deleted.

Further, he say that if the text was: "of great religious import, it would, I think, appear in some form on more than one website" – This is based on a Google search of the words: "Once while he was returning home". What he does not tell us is the Google finds the following:

"with his ship carrying valuable goods over the vast seas, his ship got caught up in a furious storm" in my article and

"with his ships loaded with valuable cargo, there was a furious storm at sea and his vessels got caught in it" on the other site.

Not quite the same sentence – let alone the whole article. So how can anyone say that "text is a Sikh story taken from" www.srigurugranthsahib.org site - is a completely mystery to me? I wonder why you have taken this step as it is totally unjustified!

I believe that your criticisms are entirely ill-founded and without foundation. Further, this appears to a tactic to discourage minority religions to have a reasonable say on this website and this type of behaviour will stall contribution from the minority traditions. The majority sects will dictate what goes on this site - even when they are completely wrong!! If that was your intention, I have no problem with that – just do it openly rather than using unnecessary stealth and poor logic!!! --Hari Singh 06:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Ok so you agree with renaming the Kurdish article to 'Kurdish celebration of Newroz'. I agree too. Bertilvidet also agreed on this. Diyako Talk + 07:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks for changing your vote to Keep

Hi,

Can I say that I am much obliged for your change of vote to keep and I look forward to any constructive comments that you may have to make regarding any of my articles. Many thanks. --Hari Singh 08:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Norouz

Of course, please make as many changes as you wish :) -- Jeff3000 14:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom Case

Hi, I included a diff to your comments in an ongoing ArbCom case that we unfortunately had to file for Aucaman; so just be aware of that please.Zmmz 23:03, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Chastity, Truth and Kinopanorama

You have given no valid reason why you voted to delete the entry on this film.

As you do not have any qualifications in respect to film formats, or the films released accordingly, you decision clearly smacks of a bias on your part.

Have you seen the film? Obviously not. If you had you would not have voted for deletion.

There are many entries on the film under google. Mr Lasher's involvement has been published in several periodicals.

I do not work for Fifth Continent Australia Pty Ltd., as has been inaccurately stated by other administrators.

Jeremy Sefton-Parke kinopanorama@msn.com--Kinopanorama widescreen 01:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Abkhazia

Now on my watchlist. =) If anything happens, I'll be there. -- ran (talk) 02:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes... the good thing about people who disrupt Misplaced Pages is that, they usually get bored after a while... =) -- ran (talk) 13:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish language

Unless the comparison is sourced to a reliable linguist or linguistic study, it's just original research and personal opinion and thus POV. Kurdish and Persian obviously aren't the same languages, so the comparison seems moot since no one seems to be implying that they are the same. It's pointless - the editor in question seems to want to emphasize how very different Kurds are from Persians. BTW, Aucaman wants to move Parsi to Parsi people - he moved it unilaterally once, and apparently he put it in a request to do it again (just found out about it) and no one opposed except Fullstop, so it was moved. Or whatever. Now he wants to open up an RfC - his comments are at Talk:Parsi. I oppose the move. SouthernComfort 06:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Because the word "Parsi" in modern usage primarily refers to the Parsis of India/Pakistan. "Parsi" essentially means "Persian" and is the proper form of "Fars/Farsi" (i.e. Pars > Fars, Parsi > Farsi), but the term in those usages is no longer common. It's not like "Persian people" and "Persian language" and "Persian Empire" and so forth where you have different uses of the term "Persian." With "Parsi" you have one primary, overriding definition. "Parsi people" is unnecessary for those reasons, IMHO. SouthernComfort 06:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Grandmaster is revert warring on Safavids - I'm disappointed that he is actually denying their Iranian nationality. Tajik and Grandmaster can't come to agreements - two extremes, so now he wants to omit their nationality as well. We need to get other editors involved there otherwise this nonsense will continue unabated. We should open up an RfC. SouthernComfort 06:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Aryan

His question is flawed and misguided, since "Aryan" has several different meanings in English - one of which includes the ancient ancestors of the Iranian peoples - namely the Medes and Persians, which were the two largest groups. He has deleted the reference to Columbia a couple of times (maybe more). The only references to "Aryan" in the article are to the ancient Aryan tribes. How many times can we repeat this to him? It's getting old and we're not in grade school where we have to keep repeating every single little detail just to get our point across. SouthernComfort 07:51, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Why bother replying? Each time we do so, he ignores what we say and restarts the same old tired argument. It's an endless circle. He doesn't want to listen. The only solution is for the ArbCom case to go through and to focus on this primary issue. Furthermore, there is a consensus against him, and on top of that, he is misrepresenting other editors by claiming that we are using the term "Aryan" in a certain way when we clearly are not. It's an open-and-shut case. SouthernComfort 07:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand Aucaman. It's one thing to oppose the term "Aryan" as in say, "Persians are racially Aryan." That would be controversial since this posits the existence of an "Aryan race" even though people in Iran do primarily use the term "Aryan" in this sense. But here we are using the term in connection with the ancient tribal ancestors of the Iranian peoples, who called themselves "Aryans." These are not the Nazi "Aryan ubermensch" nor are they the ancestors of the Europeans - that has never been proven. Europeans have never called themselves "Aryan" anyway! Until the Nazis, of course. But the point is, that he doesn't understand, the article is only using the term "Aryan" in connection with the Aryan tribes of long ago. Why would he have a problem with that? SouthernComfort 08:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Diyako Talk + 10:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish vs Persian

Regarding your earlier question about the POV at Kurdish language, this link might help clarify the differences. SouthernComfort 20:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Another instance of Aucaman misrepresenting things at Talk:Iranian peoples. Interesting. SouthernComfort 20:35, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

RfA thanks!

Hi Khoikhoi! Thank you for supporting my RfA. It passed at 105/1/0, putting me in WP:100 - I'm delighted and surprised! I'm always happy to help out, so if you need anything, please drop me a line. Cheers! ➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 20:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Season Greetings

Long time, no see. Happy Norooz. --ManiF 00:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem:)Cyprus dispute is in my watch-list now.cheers!--Hectorian 00:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Hehe...u got problems with POV-pushes again?relax now!--Hectorian 00:38, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

ok,i guessed u meant 'don't':p.if they want to push their propaganda by adding pictures,i can upload many as well!but neutraly is not what they think...--Hectorian 00:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe they think that neutrality is their POV.to some extend,i can understand,but not justify them...:UN resolutions,no recognision for TRNC,EU membership for Cyprus,recognition of te Armenian genocide by many countries,historical records about the mistreatment of the Armenians,present day references for the situation of the Kurds,etc etc.they want to add something contranticting all of them,but they cannot base their edits in neutral sources...--Hectorian 00:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Abkhazia

Since u got much involved in Abkhazia article,do u think it would be interesting to add the Operation Golden Fleece somewhere there?it is about the evacuation of the pontian-greeks.here are some links, --Hectorian 04:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranian peoples

Considering the source I provided over at Iranian peoples , do you think there is any cause for Aucaman to be disputing there? It all seems like a straw man to me. SouthernComfort 05:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranian nations

You voted for the merger of this article to Greater Iran. Would you mind carrying out the merger now? Normally I'd do it myself, but I can see a lot of people complaining about this (yes it's a form of censorship). Aucaman 06:10, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverting

Sorry, I won't revert anymore. I was just trying to work out a compromise between you and the Kurdish editors, which I suspect will revert tomorrow. --Khoikhoi 07:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I've no problem with reverts as long as they have a few words about their reasoning on the summary. I've put my reasoning on the talk page as well but no replies so far. Since a couple of days has passed, I assume they don't have any arguments against. --levent 08:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Homey

Avmatso -who was previously 66.171.116.105- is an obvious Greek POV pusher with an agenda. Please keep an eye on his/her edits.--Kagan the Barbarian 09:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Adana

Done. But concerning these two lines: When news of a mutiny in Istanbul started arriving in Adana, rumours started to circulate among the overheated Muslim population of an imminent Armenian insurrection. By April 14 the Armenian quarter was attacked by the mob, and many thousand Armenians were killed. Is there a direct quote from the source available on some talk page? IMHO, I think some bit of context needs to be added, and if the source does that, it would be perfect to add that in as well. The whole issue of "massacre" may require its own (brief) section within the article. That's my opinion, of course. SouthernComfort 09:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that is an unnecessary addition to the article. In the history of Adana, I am sure there were many massacres for which we would have to start a whole new article. It has to be a major event, if we are going to mention it in the brief history of a city. If you read the history section from the start it goes: "Hittites built, then Greeks took it, then Romans did, then Byzantine did, then Turks did, then Mamluks did, then again Turks, then thousands of Armenians died, then French took it, then Turks retook it.". You think this is coherent? Look if you ask Greeks and Armenians, everything Turks did to put down rebellions is genocide, and has to be mentioned in the history of every city in Turkey. If you give in to this, you will open a can of worms.--Kagan the Barbarian 10:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

It is not true that every capture of a city was followed by a massacre.and if u want an example:Persepolis were ruined by Alexander the Great,but Babylon was not.Adana is known for the massacre,so,the event needs to be mentioned.and let me add my POV too:if we ask u,every massacre and genocide that the turks committed against the greeks,armenians,assyrians(...) was justifiable and legal.--Hectorian 18:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I am willing to accept atrocities commited by Turks, just not willing to pay more than I owe. Anyway, as if Greeks and Armenians are very good at accepting theirs; most of the time the response I get from them is "We are good Christians, our people are never capable of such things". BLAH!--Kagan the Barbarian 20:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Pushing the turkish POV again kagan? When will this all stop?--Moosh88 23:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Pashtunistan page

Can you please check the allegations made by 203.175.72.35 on Pashtinstan talk page. Paki is a swear word not appropriate in Misplaced Pages. Siddiqui 16:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

My RFA

	Thank you! Thank you for supporting / opposing / vandalising my RFA! The result was 71/3/0 and so I am now still a normal user / an administrator / indefinitely banned. Your constructive criticism / support / foulmouthed abuse has given me something to think about / helped me immensely / turned me into a nervous wreck. If there's any way I can help you in return, please ask someone else / suffer and die / drop me a line! --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 19:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Mr Blanning, thank you for choosing the ACME Auto-thanker! Simply strike out the phrases that do not apply and tear off this strip at the indicated line to give all your supporters and detractors the personalised response they so richly deserve. N.B: DO NOT FORGET TO TEAR THIS BIT OFF, MORON!

User:-Inanna-

Please do not spam other users pages asking them to revert the contributions of this user. It is considered to be an attempt to circumvent the 3RR, and therefore innapropriate. If you have a problem with this user's edits, discussion, and notification of a higher authority if neccisary, is the proper way to go about this. --InShaneee 20:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I understand. This user has been blocked for this before, and doesn't appear to be doing much better now. Just making sure you know there are proper channels to report this type of thing. --InShaneee 02:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I will help

Thank you very much for letting me know about this. Anything you would like me to do, just let me know. Has inanna been warned? If not then I suggest one of us warns her and if her behavior continues, then she should be reported and or blocked. I am getting very tired of having to counter these turkish/azeri POV pushers. Please get back to me, thanks!--Moosh88 23:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The best way to deal with people like her is to get them banned from editing articles on wikipedia. I say we talk to an administrator (I don't know if you're one or not) or contact Jimbo Wales himself. In the last 2 weeks I have noticed an increase in Azeri/Turkish POV pushers and it really irks me that they can say Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Kurds, etc. are the "real" POV pushers. We can provide one another with a list of Turkish and Azeri POV pushers on wiki. How does this sound to you?--Moosh88 04:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

If the situation keeps getting worse, I may just want to get one of them banned. I thought baku87 had joined wikipedia only a few weeks ago? As for kagan, I think he is a POV pusher, take a look at the recent edits on the Mount Ararat article. He is not as obvious about his POV pushing as some others, but I believe he does his good share too. The Azeri/Turkish POV pushers I know are the two I just mentioned and druffc, tabib and cool cat. If you know of any others please let me know, thanks!--Moosh88 04:32, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I need help

I got this Iranian extremist screwing these pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/Ramona_Amiri and http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Assyrians Ramona has never stepped a foot in Iran, and she has constantly stated how proud she is of her Assyrian ethnicity, as I posted the source in the talk page. As for Andre Agassi, in his page, it states he has Assyrian ethnicity in him. So can you please do something about this guy, he doesn't even explain himself when he RVs. Chaldean 02:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I really appricate it. By the way, don't know if you have been watching Iraqi news lately (or the The Dialy Report yesterday) but this guy Georges Sada, that has been seen on American media lately, is Chaldo-Assyrian :) Chaldean 02:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I know how his name is in our language, but I unfortunatly dont know how to write (like the 95% of our people.) Growing up in villages, we are not taught to write. Only when we start going to arabic schools, we first incounter writing. His name is really Gorgis. His last name is arabic. By the way, the way last name work in arab countries is totally different from what we know in the west. See, when a person is born in the MiddleEast, his father's name is automatically what we call in the west, his middle name. And the baby's grandfather's name becomes what the west calls his last name. But, what we do in the ME, is we stick to the first 2 names, our name and fallowed by our fathers name. So, "Sada" is the name of Georges father. Did I confuse you there? :) Chaldean 03:05, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranian peoples

Well, based on my own personal observations while also utilizing the basic methods of scientific deduction, I predict that he will continue to give the same response. Thusly, in my most humble opinion, it is not worth the effort nor the sacrifice. So long as the editor(s) in question do not delete or otherwise obscure what is meant by "Iranian peoples" they are free to repeat themselves. Thoughts? SouthernComfort 03:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Now he is taking the dispute to Tajiks. SouthernComfort 03:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

May I ask what does Iranian refer too? Is Iranian an ethnicity or a term like American, a bunch of different ethnicities under one name? If so, then why are people in places like Afganistan considered "Iranian"? Chaldean 03:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so those groups under the Iranian name that you mentioned, are they related to one another ethnically or geographically? Chaldean 03:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

So then, the arabs of Southern Iran; are they considered to be under the title of "Iranian people"? What about the Azeri and the Armenian population of Iran? Chaldean 03:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed a very confusing topic, that officals/historian have not clearly decided on. I mean, its only what each individual think..like the guy that I pointed out to you that is RVing Ramona's page. He thinks she's Iranian, only because her Assyrian father was born in Urmaya. Totally rediculous. Chaldean 03:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

As if things couldn't get more absurd - see recent comment at Talk:Iranian peoples. And you've got mail. SouthernComfort 04:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Mail, as usual. ;) SouthernComfort 05:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality

Are you a native speaker of English???. Diyako Talk + 11:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I meant are you really fluent in English?! The link clearly does not claim that. I'm sure your English is good but I suspect that you did/do it deliberately. I wonder how you are insisting on changing a linguistic group into an ethnic group! A linguistic group such as Iranics has an academic definition; a definition by language not but other factors.

PS: Even linguistically those ethnic groups' languages have different origins and their classification as a linguistic group is just by accidental similarities in vocabulary. Diyako Talk + 11:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, Look at this sentence: 'Kurds are a blue ethnolinguistic group'; Here it does not mean blue is an ethnolinguistic group but the 'Kurds' are. Blue is an 'adjective'! The same as blue in that sentence.

Yes some think Kurds have several non-standard dialects then they are an ethnolinguist group because they share one language and one ethnicity. But is it true about Iranian-speakers? Do they have one language and one ethnicity? So why don't rename the page to 'Iranian people' instead of plural form?!

Every term such as ethnic group and a linguistic group has their definitions. 'My sources define iranian peoples as people who speak Iranian languages esp Persian-speakings of Iran Afganistan and Tajikstan' or As a 'branch of Aryans' which sure Aryan is a (outdated) linguistic term. Diyako Talk + 20:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear SouthernComfort, The article uses 'Iranian' as a linguistic group not as people from Iran but Both are adjectives to the term ethnolinguistic group which refers to Kurds. in no way the term ethnolinguistic refers to Iranian it refers to Kurds. If you could understand this tell me then I write rest of my reply. ~~

• Kurds are an ethnolinguistic group.
• Kurds are an Iranian (linguistic term) ethnolinguic group.

Now is it clear? Diyako Talk + 20:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Good. so till now you accept that in that link this is Kurds who are an ethnolinguistic group? (For the rest I've encyclopedic sources). Diyako Talk + 20:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Lodhi Tribe

Hi, I found that you have reverted the changes that I had made to the topic "Lodhi". I had added more to the second part of the topic, which is about the tribe called Lodhi.

I couldnt find an explanation for the reversion. Please help!

Hi

Please check your IMs, I wanted to discuss something with you. --ManiF 19:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Most excellent

Just checked the AfD for Turkish Kurdistan and found a link (Encyclopedia of Islam entry for Kurdistan) courtesy of our friend Heja - The Kurds, an Iranian people of the Near East, live at the junction of more or less laicised Turkey - so we've got one more buddy, is that beautiful or what? SouthernComfort 04:29, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course, that's in reference to the Kurdish people article. SouthernComfort 04:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

LOL. That might be true, but they wanted sources, we've got 'em, and we've just got one more. Yes, my friend, life really is grand. SouthernComfort 04:43, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Mail, and problems again at Iranian peoples. SouthernComfort 08:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, Aucaman is claiming that because of the one fair use photo in the collage (the musician), that it can't be used. Is this true? The others are public domain, so perhaps hers should be replaced with one of the Kurdish or Tajik images. SouthernComfort 08:24, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Makemi RfA

Thank you for voting on my RfA. It passed with a consensus to promote of 45/7/1. To those of you concerned about the fact that I am a relative newcomer, I encourage you to poke me with a sharp stick if I make a mistake. Or better yet, let me know on my talk page, and I'll do my best to fix it. Makemi 05:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Guess what - an IP check reveals that Hybridlily is one of TuszuzDeliBekir's sockpuppets. --Latinus 19:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't do this

Of course it was multi-ethnic, it was an EMPIRE. God, why are you giving in to Greek vandalism. They are doing this because I vowed to fight their Greek POV pushing. Now you have to revert the article, I did 3.--Kagan the Barbarian 19:43, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I anly asked one for Shanex (talk · contribs · block log), but they found that Hybridlily was linked as well. --Latinus 19:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Hybridlily was permabanned as well just a minute ago - I've replied. --Latinus 19:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You got mail. --Latinus 00:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Again. --Latinus 01:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

You are "Too" cool!

My RfA

Thank you so much for supporting me in my recent RfA, which passed with a final tally of 56/1/0. I thank you for your confidence in my abilities. If you ever need anything or find that I have made an error, please let me know on my talk page. — Scm83x 21:22, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Still Waiting

I asked you a question at talkpage of Metb82 in 18 March but you haven't still replied it.Won't you answer? Inanna 22:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You could say that you didn't want to reply...Inanna 21:20, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Adana

I've added a fact tag for now, but if someone doesn't source it soon (so that we can qualify the statement within the article as a claim, and enclose in quotes), we should delete it. This is going to be a difficult article to keep NPOV though. SouthernComfort 02:13, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Cyprus

Thanks for your clarification there. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 05:38, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Your mail

Thanks Khoikhoi for thinking of me. In general I don't vote for or against any one's RFA as I find it's such a political process, with people campaigning for and against, and in many ways putting people down. I think it causes a lot of disunity in the Misplaced Pages community in between the people strongly for and strongly against the nomination. So I hope you understand why I'm not participating in the process. It has nothing to do with you or your edits on Misplaced Pages, but my own personal belief in not getting involved with things that seem like politics. -- Jeff3000 20:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, emailing users about an RfA vote isn't the greatest way to obtain support, a lot of users will vote oppose based on that fact. -- Tawker 01:47, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I know, just for future RfA's -- Tawker 01:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The same reference! I explained it for SouthernComfort. Please revert your edit. Xebat Talk + 01:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you my friend. Xebat Talk + 01:13, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I have discovered that the source is actually talking about the "Iranian nations" in terms of linguistic and historical data. Please review my wording. SouthernComfort 01:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem is if we remove everything else and just leave "Iranian peoples" at the beginning others may bring up the old argument again. For example, see Vindheim's addition of POV tag and recent comments there (despite WP:V). SouthernComfort 01:25, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but his POV tag is unwarranted. His only recourse is to provide opposing sources, which he has not done. SouthernComfort 01:34, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

He has also not responded to my comment concerning WP:V. SouthernComfort 01:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Can I ask you please once again to revert that version. You how some people revert every edit I do. I'm afraid off 3RRXebat Talk + 02:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)