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Michel Foucault ‎- 'Criticism' section

I think you have made a number of valid observations on the shortcomings of this section. Will respond there when time permits, hopefully later today. Am I correct in assuming that a 'Criticism section' by some name and format should be included or are you seeking its removal entirely. Best. RashersTierney (talk) 13:57, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Rashers. WRT the section, well it depends. The philosophical arguments bit should have its own section but I think 'criticisms' is the wrong title for that. I'd prefer to see specific critiques of ideas being integrated into other sections (per NPOV) where relevant, but if there are wider criticisms like Midelfort's is currently presented as, then maybe there could be a criticism section if the info was due and didn't become a coatrack--Cailil 20:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to take part in Misplaced Pages survey

Hello, Cailil! We would like to know what you think of Misplaced Pages in your day-to-day editing. That's why we've created a survey here where you can answer all the questions about what you do here anonymously. What's more, the results will be used to make the editing experience better for all. Thank you.

Sent by Rcsprinter123 (talk) at 03:23, 25 December 2024 UTC on behalf of Wikimedia Surveys using AWB.

Block of IP

Is a two week block really warranted for this? Per WP:BLOCK persistent personal attacks are what are needed to result in a block not a fairly innocent response to being accused of being a block evading editor. Mo ainm~Talk 21:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Patterns of personal abuse, harassment, tag team editing, canvassing, and (ab)use of multiple ips - yes blocking is appropriate to prevent further disruption. BTW that diff was just the last straw the rest of the actions by this editor/s across multiple IPs is the haystack. Besides they can be unblocked immediately if they agree to stop--Cailil 21:55, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I retired but I could not help noticing you blocked the user that Mo Ainm mentiond after multiple obvious false allegations by GoodDay, if you think if it is one editor using all these IP addresses, than you are very mistaken and obviously know nothing about IP addressing so I suggest you aquaint yourslf with the basics here ] , and the fact that you used the "personal attack" on GoodDay as a justification is ridiculous in contrast to eveything GoodDay has done, I fail to see what disruptions the IP made besides trying to bring to attention GoodDay's behaviour, I was also wrongfuly blockd by BlackKite for GoodDay's false accusations of being a sock, and it is this behaviour by admins such as yourself and BlackKite that hav led me to more or lss abandon wikipdia, the fact that nothing has been done to deter GoodDay from disruptive and intentional inflammatory and provocative behaviour is astounding.Sheodred (talk) 00:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Sheodred, if you read my comment to GoodDay you'll see I told him to stop accusing others (you) of socking and file an SPI if he has concerns. Furthermore I know a fair bit more about Ips than you think Sheodred. There's apparently 1 vodafone user using dynamic Ips to avoid scrutiny working in concert (tag teaming) with somebody in ucc - but I haven't finished checking if there's any proxies or TORs involved.
You have site dispute resolution processes open to you if you wish to resolve your issue with GoodDay--Cailil 00:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm following Cailil's advice on this, Sheodred. GoodDay (talk) 07:02, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

But what evidence is there to say that this IP has done any of that? GoodDay has even retracted his unfounded accusation as he has no proof to back it up. Mo ainm~Talk 10:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Edits to User:Snowded/GoodNight by new users with an obvious ax to grind is a red flag Mo anim. These Ips are focussed on GD personally. Whether they are 1 or 17 different ppl makes 0 difference - they're working together (violating WP:MEAT and/or WP:TAGTEAM). IPs are required to abide by WP:CIVIL and WP:5 just as much as everyone else. And everyone is required to be on their best behaviour in topics where there are multiple ArbCom and/or community rulings.
If GD's, or anyone else's, comments are not constructive then editors (and IPs) should seek dispute resolution - not use dynamic IPs to avoid scrutiny (as the above 2 sets of Ip blocs in Australia and UCC have done), evade blocks (as another set of vodafone Ips has done) and make personal comments (as all 3 blocs have done). Misplaced Pages is a colaborative environment & we have processes to resolve disagreement - what the IPs are doing is neither constructive nor colaborative--Cailil 13:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I no longer suspect (or have proof) that Sheodred is any of those IPs. There was some sorta tag teaming going on between IPs from within Ireland, though. GoodDay (talk) 11:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Not knowing what article you are talking about I have no opinion on the tag teaming claim you are making, but AGF, maybe they all disagree with you. Mo ainm~Talk 11:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

C. S. Lewis & Misplaced Pages: Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles

Howdy Cailil. I just wanted to let you know, I'm not looking to create drama. I'm genuinely concerned about what I preceive as a breach of NPoV at the MoS-in-queston. It's also a well known fact, that I detest political correctness & the "it might offend somebdoy" cries. GoodDay (talk) 19:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

However, if you think I should 'not' persue these concerns, on the MOS & Lewis article? then I'll cease. GoodDay (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I've got no opinion on whether you should pursue this or not, but if you are going to pursue anything please do so in a way that:
a) invites others to be constructive rather than defensive/unnecessarily contradictory.
b) takes account of prior consensus and how it was reached.
c) assumes that those who reached that consensus acted in good faith.
Your remark ("That's not NPoV") was more of a quip than a constructive policy based invitation to collaboratively revise a manual of style guideline effecting hundreds of (or more) articles. This kind of post is far more likely to encounter flaming than to generate consensus for change. (But I see you've fixed that and think this approach is far better) Please bear this in mind especially in contentious areas.
Also I might add that I am not sure that this issue (Name & context of place of birth in biographies) is actually a NPOV issue and may be more of a WikiProject Biography or WP:UKNATIONALS issue (see William Gladstone for instance)--Cailil 19:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I've changed my post to a proposal & will AGF on those who reached the current guideline. Also, I 'll add my proposal to WP:BIO. As for WP:UKNAT? it's only an essay. My reason for checking with you, is so that I won't have any editors showing up & labelling me a 'disturber' - a type of harassment, that has occured in the past. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

No problem - I actually wasn't adding those templates in response to your remarks either btw - I hope it didn't seems like I was--Cailil 23:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

It didnt. I remembered that you were the Administrator who helped me, when last I got alot of heat over the British & Irish articles. I realized that proposing a change to the guidelines concerning the British Isles bios 'might be' rough & so I needed assurance that I wasn't in the wrong. As you can see (at WP:BIO), I've already had mud slung at me by 2 editors. GoodDay (talk) 01:20, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

"GoodDay , that hs come across as point blank POV , racist and discriminatory . I praised the editing you done yesterday but this is horrific . Surely if it goes for one in the greater view of Wiki , it should go for all , we cant pick and choose to ignore issues that are the same just because the involve different sub-entities" is not mud slinging or a personal attack it is a comment on his previous comment .As you alluded to "there is a general inconsistency about the historical context of the place of birth in biographies " his example was only on Ireland and my comment was based on his .I did not sling mud, that accusation is in an ad hominem manner . When can I see the warning you are going to give for such a comment in the same manner to the other editor ? Murry1975 (talk) 18:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Forgive me, but I think we're having communication problems. Would I be correct, in assuming that english isn't your first language? GoodDay (talk) 18:35, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

What info I have given on myself I give any .I didnt mud sling as you accuse. I made a comment on your comment I mentioned your previous editing(which I praised) I never personally accused ,I stated "that has come across" as that being in normal English language referring to the article i.e. your comment not you.Murry1975 (talk) 18:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm having trouble understanding your posts. But, I can tell you meant no harm, so no prob. GoodDay (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

• Murry1975 please take a moment to preview your edits in order to make sure that your communication with others is clear. Also btw when commenting on policy proposals please dial down the rhetoric. Attributing racism to a proposal is not the most collegial of remarks one could make. Please try to AGF about other peoples' ideas--Cailil 19:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I read what I type , others did not . If I didnt assume good faith I would have reported the remark for racism not replied to it , as a racist remark SHOULD be reported immediately. On a continued note , I was accused of mud slinging , I am not AGF on this as you mentioned this on the project bio page emphisising myself and another editor , yet this acquisition is a breach of WP:NPA , also an attempt of outing on your page.Murry1975 (talk) 20:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Murry dial own the rhetoric. There is not a WP:Outing issue here (which is btw a VERY serious accusation to make and I am strongly suggesting you redact it immediately) - you are "digging a hole for yourself here" I suggest you stop--Cailil 20:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
      • You are failing to treat all editors the same .Murry1975 (talk) 21:07, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
        • "Would I be correct, in assuming that english isn't your first language?" is trying to gain information on an editor is it not?Murry1975 (talk) 21:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't attacking you, by asking that queston. PS: I don't even know what we're arguing about, anyways. GoodDay (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

You are not allowed to garner information that the other editors dont put forward about themselves .Murry1975 (talk) 21:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Cool. GoodDay (talk) 21:37, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Letter to Cailil

Dear Cailil,

You are an ass. I note the abrupt and harsh warning you've placed on my Talk page and compare it with the friendly advice offered to Bjmullan on his Talk page concerning the same matter:

Bjmullan's page - "Bj, please be aware that .." My page - "This is a formal warning .."

Bjmullan's page - ".. but I'm afraid I must warn you too .." My page - ".. will result in restrictions being placed on this account"

Bjmullan's page - "PS, I do realize the length of time (3 weeks) since you made that post .." My page - nothing

Overall, your tone on Bjmullan's page is a world away from that on my page and yet arguably both of us have descended to the same level of incivility. I wonder why your tone is so different? I notice another editor (User:Murry1975) has made similar observations above.

What is of particular concern to me, and should be to others as well, is that three weeks ago Bjmullan and I had a disagreement and we've now moved on. However, you have now belatedly muck-raked over the whole issue again. What do you hope to gain from doing this? Maybe you are trying to provoke me especially into delivering this type of response, so that you can then take the opportunity to eliminate yet another user, as you seem to have done with several others who have attempted to stand up to the anti-British POV we find on Misplaced Pages. Well congratulations, you're successful again, so carry on. I've pretty much given up with Misplaced Pages anyway, given its unreliability and consequent uselessness as a primary source (just try using Misplaced Pages as a reference in some academic writing).

It's bad enough dealing with the POV pushing of editors like Bjmullan and HighKing, but at least they do make useful contributions as well, unlike you. Your primary objective seems to be to boss others around and issue ridiculous, untimely and unnecessary warnings. I can only assume you get some satisfaction from doing this - most strange. Finally let me point out another nasty little trait of yours, which again betrays your own bias in these matters; when referring to users who you by and large support, you address them by name, but for users like me it's the impersonal "this account". How objectionable that is.

Yours sincerely,

Van Speijk. Van Speijk (talk) 18:18, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

User:Jonchapple

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Jonchapple <- This is a personal attack on everyone who disagrees with him if I am not mistaken, he just generalised an entire section of editors as people who sympathise with murderers. Sheodred (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I've forwarded this to Mkativerata who recently blocked Jonchapple as they're more familiar with that particular case history. I'll keep an eye on it too but I would expect a response from Mkativerata in the next few days.--Cailil 16:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Advice please

This is escalating from the usual trolling. These, just in the last 12 hours: deleting reliably sourced, verified text from National emblem (as well as POV trolling on the talkpage); deleting reliably sourced, verified text from Peter O'Toole (and a technical breach of edit war re 1RR restrictions – again); deleting 'Scottish' from Robert Burns intro, adding UK to places of birth and death in infobox, and deleting 'Scottish' from nationality field in infobox. This is his apparent admission of disruptive, pointy editing - if he had wanted just to see how it looked he should have used a sandbox, or at least self-reverted. And you already know about the disruptive proposal here. This is not going to stop. A preventative block is necessary. Can you do this, or does it have to go to AN/I? Daicaregos (talk) 10:24, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree pointy disruptive edits. Mo ainm~Talk 12:39, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It's sooo terrible, the stress I bring into the lives of these certain editors. Ohhh, the vandalizing & edit warring I'm alleged to have done. Thank goodness, these wounded editors-in-question, haven't been attacking me & my motives on main-space. Oh wait, they do harrass me on main space. GoodDay (talk) 16:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

"he only does it to annoy, because he knows it teases" just about sums up the motivation here, its not an attempt to improve things. He's taken voluntary bans before, but keeps coming back with minor low level provocation. I suspect he wants it to go to ANI and an RfC as it will give him time in the limelight and will also flush out a whole bunch of the normal warfare between editors who use him as a gadfly. --Snowded 12:44, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

At the very least there should be a warning that the next time anything similar happens, there will be a block - then follow through with the block. Because there will be a next time. That would be preventative, not punative. It may even change his behaviour, which is all any of us want. Daicaregos (talk) 14:51, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Your petty attempts to have me topic banned, are becoming pathetic, Dai. GoodDay (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Quebec is not a nation. The Canadian government only recognzied the French Quebecers (the majority in the province, ie Quebecois) as a nation within Canada. The province itself, isn't recognized as a nation. Daicaregos is merely seeking to continue a fight with me, in order to try & have me topic banned. GoodDay (talk) 15:40, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Here's is the source , showing that it's the Francophones of Quebec, who are recognized as a nation with Canada -- not the province. GoodDay (talk) 15:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right Dai. If nothing is done about this now he will think he has permission to continue his disruption unabated. Snowded is also correct in that the more attention he gets the happier he is. Cailil, I'm not here to demand anything, but I believe something has to be done about his behaviour sooner rather than later. I recommend you have a look at this diff from my talk page where you can see where he got the idea for the change to the Robert Burns article. A little bit of payback I fear. As for his request below, you'll probably remember that he requested the same thing on your talk page after he finally confessed to looking for a fight with Dai. Carson101 (talk) 15:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

What a coincidence, that you're all devolutionists. GoodDay (talk) 16:05, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

• Well Dai, wrt to the 1rr restriction he self reverted, and while I understand your POV I don't see this as an admission of anything but a good faith attempt at editing.
  However GD this kind of comment is unnecessary and not helpful (or in line with AGF).
  Content wise this is truly a question of a poisonous atmosphere (in the widest sense) because there seem to be entrenched good faith attitudes on all sides - which makes things very complicated and IMHO inappropriate to use blocks to resolve. From an outside perspective this should be engaged with via our structures for dispute resolution. I've seen you make the point before Snowded, that forms of dispute resolution will not work here but I disagree. If you don't believe that RFC will help then I would indeed suggest going up to ANI or across to WP:MEDCAB. As this issue stands it is a content dispute (in a wide sense) and I don't see a reason to block for that.
  But if you want to take the time to evidence (in long form) a pattern of disruption then RFC, ANi or RFAR are your best options. If you want to sort this in teh medium to short term then I'd suggest the med-cab. I'm neither defending nor condemning GoodDay's actions here and I will reiterate that if you can show, with neutrally recorded evidence, that there is a serious long running issue with anyone then take it to RFC or ANI (or RFAR).--Cailil 17:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

A request

Cailil, I'm tired of the constant harrassment from these editors & their political motivations. It's clear that I'm out-numbered by these devolutionists & so you're gonna have to issue me a topic-ban from the British & Irish articles - because, I'm not gonna back down from their attempts to stop me from bringing a NPoV to those articles. GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Further evidence of their wolf-pack behaviour, is their 'piling on', here at your talkpage. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Either topic ban me or tell them to get off my back. GoodDay (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)