Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:50, 31 March 2006

Archives
Archive Archive 2: The Sequel Archive 3: Return of the Archive Archive 4: The Revenge - This Time It's Personal Archive 5, Jan 2006 (general archive) Archive 6, Feb 2006 (general archive) Archive of discussions pertaining to Jason Gastrich Archive of discussions pertaining to adminship and requests archiving policy privacy policy

Guy Chapman? He's just zis Guy, you know? More about me

If you need urgent admin help please go to the incident noticeboard. To stop a vandal, try the vandal intervention page. For general help why not try the help desk? If you need me personally and it's urgent you may email me, I read all messages even if I do not reply. If next time I log on is soon enough, click this link to start a new conversation.

• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject History of Science
• JzG (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves)

RFA Thanks

Thank you! Thank you for your support in my recent RFA. It passed 53/1/2 and I am now an administrator. I appreciate that some of you made exceptions to your usual requirements re length of service and so on because we've interracted positively in the past, or because of my credentials, so I will endeavour to use my new mop cautiously. I'm always open to feedback and gently constructive criticism. If you're not an admin and need some assistance do of course please let me know. Thanks again --kingboyk 00:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

P.S. If you are interested in The Beatles, User:Lar has asked me to tag on a little note advertising the creation of a new Beatles WikiProject that we are currently setting up. Please sign up and help.

Sam Sloan

He's my Jason Gastrich, except that I'm not being condemned to hell for my actions. :) howcheng {chat} 07:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

zap!

I've replied to your note, on my talk page, and am now totally negating the efficiency of that by telling you this here ; )

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 15:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Reconciliation

Hi Guy,

I hope you're well.

I'm writing a couple of Wiki users because I feel that I may have offended some people. I apologize if my past contributions made you upset. I see that you value making contributions to Misplaced Pages (although I don't agree with them) and that you have a passion for this place and getting your input into various entries.

The recent explosion in revert wars by "apparent Jason Gastrich sock puppets or impersonators" has not been my doing. Although I disagree with your viewpoint that a link to one of my web pages or a link that I agree with should be discussed on the talk page first, in fact I find this downright unfair and wrong, I haven't been contributing under the huge number of impersonators we have seen, lately.

Please consider reconciling with me. It could do us some good. I wish had something tangible to offer you, but I don't. All I can do is apologize for the past edits that were deemed inappropriate by you, although I still strongly disagree, and forgive you for the misdeeds I feel you have done. For what it's worth, I see this place as hostile to what I believe in, and even the truth in general, causing me to have serious reservations about even inviting others here and certainly about promoting this place in any way.

My most important goal is to glorify God and to lead others into a relationship with Him. I've been working hard and doing this online, although some may not see these efforts reflected on Misplaced Pages. Therefore, I need to go where I'm needed the most, because that is where the fruit is at.

Thanks for your consideration and God bless you.

Sincerely, Jason Gastrich 01:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Please don't be offended that I'm sending a similar message to a handful of others. I feel the same way and wanted to say the same thing to them, too.

After the "apology" he had enough time to fix the promotion links on his page. Arbusto 02:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Only the one I think. Just zis Guy you know? 09:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

This is fascinating. I can't help but notice that Gastrich's reply came only after a fair number of arbitrators already voted against him in the proposed decision. Unfortunately, I don't think it works the way he thinks it does ... once people have made up their mind, they've made up their mind, and late apologies really aren't going to help anything. --Cyde Weys 02:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think it was in the middle of the apology pasting.

BTW, Guy, here is a request that you archive your talk page, you're over 100 messages. KillerChihuahua 02:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Be bold :-) Cyde Weys 02:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

roflmao, Cyde, you are a bad, bad boy! KillerChihuahua 02:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I'm a lone voice, but I don't see anything wrong with his user page*, and I'm happy to see him editing under his accepted user name. *It might be better if the bio with links were moved to a subpage as is the norm for userfied articles, however. --kingboyk 02:59, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Happy to see him edit? You mean till ArbComm finalises things? Color me jealous I didn't get one of these (collectible, trade and save!). ++Lar: t/c 03:02, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

...as opposed to the latest sockpuppet. It's good to know he hasn't forgotten his password! --kingboyk 03:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to take this page off my watch list, if I keep laughing like this I'll hurt myself. KillerChihuahua 03:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I use the SAME password for ALL my sockpuppets. Hope that helps. ++Lar: t/c 03:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

In response to the several above:

1. I am actually very pleased that Jason has chosen to acknowledge fault, that is a positive development. My view is that the original ArbCom remedy of editing restrictions and rapid escaaltion in case of future repetition was adequate and proportionate; I am convinced that a lot of the disruption was not Jason himself; even if it was meatpuppets, that may be a case of having let the genie out of the bottle - hard to get it back in.
2. KingboyK, go back in the history and loko at prior versions. They had way too many external links. They have been pruned, and Jason has apparently decided to leave that be, which is good.
3. I think we should stop poking fun.

As you know, I never did want Jason blocked, only brought into line. Just zis Guy you know? 09:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with all points, and I was serious in saying that I considered it a welcome development. --kingboyk 10:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Gastrich has a way with words. While I don't necessarily think that his apology is insincere, neither does it particularly interest me. An actual change of behaviour is the only thing that will be of any importance; doing a few spelling corrections on articles unrelated to Christianity would have said far more than the appeal above. I'm still not convinced by either the impersonator or the meatpuppet defence - the socks are too knowledgable about Misplaced Pages to be new users, his ministry is almost certainly not that large, and there is no conceivable reason for anyone to impersonate him to this extent - maybe one or two people playing silly buggers, like Mrs Gastrich, but the majority of the spree makes no sense in that context. I can't remember offhand who it was that suggested applying Occam's Razor, but I think they were right. To refer to Arbustoo's post, the fact that his first real step on the road to reconciliation is to insert another spam link on his user page is not encouraging. --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 10:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Malthusian. KillerChihuahua 10:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

This discussion on Arbustoo's talk page which was started by Gastrich after his supposed 'apology' makes me even less inclined to consider this a genuine attempt at reconciliation, hence the strikeout in the paragraph above. --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 15:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh FFS. I try so hard to WP:AGF, but this guy really works at it, doesn't he? Just zis Guy you know? 15:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• Jason's apology does not appear to be sincere. If you look for the subtext, he is basically saying: "I'm apologizing because it's the only thing I can do in the face of your injustices towards me." Although I am entirely surprised that Misplaced Pages has held his attention for this long, I do not doubt that he will continue to push his point of view into the knowledge base. Even though this is my first posting here, I have been a "fan" of Jason's for a couple of years, and have been closely watching this latest round of antics. Generally I find his silliness to be harmless fun, but it's an entirely different matter when his righteous arrogance steamrollers other people's sincere efforts. Grinder2112 18:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Background, I have seen some of the discussions that Grinder has had with Jason. He has a high degree of patience and is one of the few who has managed to engage Jason in a productive discourse. Grinder is no troll, in case people are wondering due to his limitied activity in wikipedia. David D. (Talk) 19:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• I have a Bible verse for those gathered here today. It's Matthew 7:6. Regardless of who your swine are. AvB ÷ talk 21:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• I have a sneaking suspicion the pearls here are fake, but the authenticity of the swine is in little doubt at this moment. Just zis Guy you know? 22:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

My page has been vandalized, , comments deleted, and JG sock tags removed. Arbusto 08:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

FYI

Hey JzG, FYI regards, FloNight 16:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Alien Abduction RE.:

I was referring to one Whitley Strieber. I've encountered things myself that would scare Stephen King, Clive Barker and Wes Craven when I was a kid, and on top of that, had to contend with trigger happy idiots at the same time the former was going on. While travelling "Out West" as a gold prospector, people had told me that IF there is alien contact, the whole planet will erupt in rebellions, some for religious reasons, such as "Its the Devil comming to get our souls and the Govt. works for Satan !", some will rebel out of revenge due to the protocol initiated by the Robertson Panel protocol and/or the Brookings Report, both of which are still in effect. Part of the Robertson Panel protocol uses psychiatrists, so that people who spot UFOs and/or aliens, and the like, have a interest in these "forbidden" matters look like fools and idiots. The Robertson Panel was initiated by the CIA to "reduce", if not eliminate any and all interest, suppress any and all UFO and/or alien reports.I have some police and military contacts as well who have told me a few things. Martial Law :)

Is that a grassy knoll I see over yonder? Just zis Guy you know? 20:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Good one, Ever hear about the "Magic Bullet" that hit JFK in the head(Seen the tapes) from the front, then circled around and hit the Texas governor ? While investigating a bigfoot incident, some idiot threatened to shoot me IF I was one of those (polite) "skeptics". People see strange things, they do not appreciate other people implying they're lying. Due to WP:NOR and Misplaced Pages:Profanity, I can't state what I've found here. Martial Law 23:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Have you seen/encountered something strange ? Did you report it ? If you did, you'll see what I'm referring to. I've investigated the Roswell Incident, the Phoenix Lights matter, the Fouke Monster matter(where some armed idiot thought I was a "skeptic"), the Gulf Breeze UFO incident, and some not so famous paranormal matters as well. Misplaced Pages Protocol does not allow me to list here what I've found at all. Martial Law 23:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC) :)

The thing that has always amazed me about the Roswell Conspiracy is that the Government have supposedly somehow managed to keep it completely leak-free, something they have failed to do in so many other cases (from Watergate on up). I apply Occam's Razor: when absolutely everybody in authority points to a prosaic explanation, why theorise something for which no credible evidence exists? Of course, Douglas Adams had another take on it: teasers, rich kids with nothign better to do than land in some uninhabited spot and strut up and down in fonrt of some poor sod who nobody is going to believe making "beep-beep" noises and wearing silly antennae on their heads. Just zis Guy you know? 14:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Where I'm currently located at, you dress up as a alien, Bigfoot, and come to a rural area, you might as well make out your Will. Out here, people will shoot at something like that, and at all intruders. I'm in a rural area at this time. While I was monitoring a Bigfoot incident in the Ozarks in Arkansas, a news person asked a local about it being someone in a Bigfoot suit. He (polite) said that had better not be going on or the (polite) idiot will end up dead. You'll be amazed when hoaxers report that some "redneck" tried to shoot at them, and the hoaxer is in some kind of costume, be it alien or bigfoot. Martial Law 02:26, 11 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Wiki-Links

If you are referring to my collection of Wiki-links, they allow instant access to various Wiki protocol, incl. WP:NOT. Martial Law 20:16, 7 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Thanks for the messages

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the messages you left on my talk page. The amount of reaction my little post created astounded me. I actually think it's poorly written (it was two am and I had taken NyQuil for a cold earlier that evening), but thanks again for what you sent. I'm putting the tutorial info to good use, and I'm gonna start out as a real live contributor as soon as I figure out the ropes.

I also think its funny that, just because I mentioned I'm Christian, and that I wrote a mild rebuke to Jason Gastrich that was actually polite, people think I'm one of his sock puppets. Right now, I find it funny, but I hope it stops soon. It seems like the kind of thing that could get real annoying REAL fast.

Anyway, I'll stop my ranting now; thanks again!

Commander Cool, part deux 04:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Should the RfC talk page get deleted?

I was wondering if the talk page on the failed RfC that a Gastrich sock started should be deleted? Arbusto 05:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Some Articles

Can you help with Dhimmi , Jizya , Rules of war in Islam , People of the Book , & now Kafir. Its one user with a severe anti-Islamic POV , who is insistent on pushing his POV . F.a.y. 13:14, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Who's the problem? There are a lot of strong opinons in evidence on those pages. Just zis Guy you know? 13:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:The Million Dollar Homepage

The problem was that in the list you left there were 2 articles present that had been consistently added by the same vandal, namely numbers 12 and 15. These had been consistently readded so I took the action of removing the whole list to try to make it less likely for people to put their own knock-off sites on there. Just felt that my actions needed explaining, my problem wasn't with the list per se, so much as what it invited people to do and what they did to it. Mallocks 15:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I just think it's hilarious that they were adding their sites to a list demonstrating the futility of the knock-offs on the Talk page of an article; I guess nobody expects a spamming copycat to be especially bright :-) Just zis Guy you know? 15:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is somewhat mystifying what they expected to achieve, they got my visit to the page to see if it was linkspam, but other than that I shouldn't think they've had a single hit. Mystifying. Mallocks 16:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Rouge admins

Our of curiosity, why Rouge not Rogue? KillerChihuahua 19:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

From some past comments - as a mis-spellign it amuses me :-) See some examples Just zis Guy you know? 19:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

A little help needed....

I just finished my first contribution (found here), but the title is not what I wanted (It should be Todd Michael Schwartzman, with all names capitalized, not Todd michael schwartzman, as it currently is). How would I fix this? Thanks for your help.

--Commander Cool, part deux 20:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I feel stupid. I went back to the page and immediately noticed the whole "Move" button. Huh. Well, at least I get the sweet satisfaction of having figured it out by myself, if only to accompany the bitter disappointment in my personal powers of observation.

Thanks anyway,

--Commander Cool, part deux 20:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, it's common enough - there is even a Wiki folklore around it, Geogre's Law :-) Just zis Guy you know? 22:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Spiked

On what do you base that a "self-published book" is somehow inferior or that I am the writer? Thanks for the compliment by the way. There are many of us in our reading group who enjoyed reading this book. You cite no credible rationale for deletion. To the excellent point made by Xoloz re. the notion of a self-published book like Spiked being popularly Googled. Beck's readers seem to endorse the book if their comments at various on-line booksellers are to be believed. American Library Association interview appears to us more impartial source than much consumer media publicity generated by commercial interest groups. See if a careful consideration of the evidence suggests not just withdrawing your notion of deletion but supporting Spiked as an entry. Malundi 8 March 2006

Who said you were the writer? It's a self-published book, though. I checked the publication details. And that alone is credible rationale for deletion. Just zis Guy you know? 00:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Bible Colleges

New white washing at Oxford Graduate school (no relation to the UK school). It seems the person doesn't want it to be known that the school is unaccredited and has 100 students via the US mail service. Making this drama more interesting is this. Arbusto 01:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

• More at Ruckman. Check user for User:24* (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)? Arbusto 21:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• • 24.*'s writing style is slightly unique, I don't think it is a sock of anyone. JoshuaZ 21:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

This user thinks it is ironic that thanks for supporting Cyde's successful RFA came in the form of a userbox.

Here's a userbox for you. --Cyde Weys 04:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

New Wiki

Hello JzG. I was wondering if you would in interested in a new wiki I'm working on about depression. I see you mention depression on your user page, so you might like to know about the Depression Wikicity. It's part of Wikicities, a project of Jimbo and Angela, but quite a new part so there is a lot to do! I'm hoping it will be come a real resource for people with depression. If you are interested, please come along and see if you can add to the site, it would be great to see more names there. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 11:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Cool, I'll be along. Just zis Guy you know? 12:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

And I'll bring my Dosulepin hydrochloride with me :-) Just zis Guy you know? 13:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Not for school

I'm not sure where to express this on the talk page — I'll work it in later — but removing the {{Misplaced Pages subcat guideline}} from the page eliminates the air of official policy, and cuts the ferocity of my opposition dramatically. Thanks. ×Meegs 23:59, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think it belongs as it was started, as a gentle and mildly humorous way of pointing out that, well, Misplaced Pages is really not for things made up in school one day. The edits after UncleG's last seemed to em to be trying to turn it into WP:NOTABILITY, which we already ave, and subverting its intention of addressing a certain clearly identified class of bad article ideas. Just zis Guy you know? 12:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Question: Deleted Edits

Just wondering if you knew what exactly counts as a deleted edit? It is editing a page then having the page deleted, or having a edit reveted? Mike _{(T C)} 02:43, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

A deleted edit is where you delete the page and then restore it minus the disputed version. This does not, as far as I know, allow the deleted edit to be picked out of either the edit history or the deleted history. Just zis Guy you know? 08:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm so I have 88 deleted edits? Would this be because of newpage patrol and CSDing articles?? Mike _{(T C)} 07:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Most likely, yes. Where did you get 88 from? Just zis Guy you know? 08:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The edit count tool: Deleted edits 87, you have Deleted edits 453. I just thought it was high, after seeing yours it is defently not! Thanks! Mike _{(T C)} 19:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Notability

Hi! You mentioned in another discussion that you didn't think FORscene was notable. As it does meet the current notability guidelines, please can you let me know what else you would be looking for. Stephen B Streater 11:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

My personal notabiltiy threshold is above community norm. Like I said, feel free to create the article, if you do it may be nominated for AfD - which is no big deal because if it does meet the guidelines it won't get deleted. Just zis Guy you know? 12:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. You can see what happened last time in the AfD. You can see the article for yourself, as you are an admin. People didn't like me writing the article, because I wrote some of the software (VSCA) - you are not the only one with higher standards than the guidelines! If you have time, I would appreciate some criticism of the article itself though. Stephen B Streater 13:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Comments on the article's Talk page.

Trying to end the war before it starts

I would like to register my disappointment at your last edit to the Association of British Counties;

1. Owain may agree with their agenda, but the material included was referenced and sourced at the end (and not all from the ABC website either); unless you can refute them, they have right to stand.
2. the references given at the bottom were useful for the entire article. Even if you did not agree with the edits made to the body, you should have let these stand, or incorporated them otherwise. Please check and be able to justify each individual sub-edit you revert.
3. wholesale reverts on controversial topics should be preceded by discussion on the talk page. In your capacity as admin, you try to discourage edit wars - the best way to do this is by example. I'm doing my best to get mediators involved/get discussion going/..etc, and offical support would be incredibly welcome.

Overall, a partial edit of Owain's work was needed, but that is not what was given. Please could I ask you to go back and reconsider and re-edit as appropriate?

Also in your capacity as admin: the anonymous user editing this page is a sockpuppet of the banned User:Irate=User:IanDavies=... (earlier edits from similar ip's from Bulldog, Manchester were blocked as such by User:David Gerard). As you are taking an active interest in this particular article, please could you watch out for these sockpuppets and use temporary bans as appropriate? It makes more sense than trying to get otherwise unrelated admins involved every time via the admin incidents noticeboard.

This is a small and fairly insignificant issue in British politics, but it is an issue all the same. I'm trying to edit usefully, within the editing rules and with rigorous citation and justification; I just don't want to see the good work getting drowned out in avoidable edit battles.

Many thanks, Aquilina 16:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I read the content, and it seemsd to me that Owain had replaced a number of statements which were fair comment with some uncritical admiration for ABC, an organisation whose significance I am still unable to verify from any reliable sources (there has been, as far as I can tell, no significant coverage in the British national press, for example). It was that simple. The significance of the issue is not the same as the significance of the group, this much should be obvious.

I am still waiting for some details on what my agenda is supposed to be here. Given that Owain has an interest in Monmouthshire (form his contribs list) it seems highly likely that the two hits on the BBC for ABC, and , both feedback comments, both pushing ABC, calling the archaic counties "the real counties" and so on, may be more revealing of Owain's bias than mine. Meanwhile there is still no verifiable evidence of significance, no evidence of coverage in mainstream media, and two BBC stories specifically did not mention the group, it was Owain Vaughan who did that in the feedback. Some might think that significant. Just zis Guy you know? 18:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Owain actually removed very little material - most of his edit was in addition to the standing article. You have added a significant amount of WP:OR to the article, which I will challenge you to find sources for. As you have not replaced the links to sources, but not justified your deletion of them, I shall do so myself now.

You may disagree with Owain's POV, and there isn't an abundance of evidence - but in the few cases where he can back up his POV with citation, his edits should stand.

Most of my comments about your edit still stand, whatever the group's significance Aquilina 18:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, I read both versions. It is not OR to mention that they were namechecked by one MP (it's in Hansard), that their membership is unstated (check the website), that the counties movement exists (see County Watch), that their impact is unknown absent media reports (give me the media reports, Owain hasn't managed yet), that the movement will not achieve its aims in the present climate (no party has it in their manifesto, not even the more quixotic ones like Goldsmith's mob). All this is verifiable. Unlike any claim to notability of ABC, which scores not significantly better on Google than I do. Just zis Guy you know? 19:01, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between not stating something on a website, and not stating - you have not proved it isn't available elsewhere, and I've changed the article to reflect this.

I have challenged several points of fact - if we can get inline references for these, then the article will be much more difficult for anyone to challenge. It's a slightly more rigorous standard of proof than is set for most articles, but seeing as its contentious it is necessary.

But as regards

The traditional counties movement is generally recognised as having little chance of achieving its objective in the current British political climate.

- it's a statement I fully agree with, but I also know it's POV/OR. I was going to delete it out of hand but realised the following: if it's that generally held a belief, however, there'll be no problem finding evidence to back it up...

We are not arguing about notability here (that if anything was partially settled by the AfD...) I just want both sides backing upclaims with evidence - and on the rare occasion this happens, but gets deleted, some good reasons why. Aquilina 19:14, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

First and foremost, there is absolutely no credible evidence that this organisation is in any way significant and if we don't say that in some form then the article will be seriously biased. As to the fact of their having little chance, it is not POV, it's a fact. We can re-state it as "no political party has taken it up" or whatever, it remains vital context. How else will non-British readers know that this is never going to happen? NPOV absolutely requires that the article make it clear that this is a fringe view with little or no mainstream support. I am open to any decent suggestions as to how best to state that, of course. Just zis Guy you know? 21:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the point needs making, but we can't resort to OR to do it. I just want both sides to explicitly cite as much as possible - it's hard to edit war when every arguable sentence has a source link at the end of it! As it is though, the edit you made (saying it isn't referred to in any manifestos) works really well - it's nice and easily verifiable, and makes the point without any editorial analysis from us.

If you could link to something showing there's been little/no media coverage, that would be good too - however, proving an absence of information is quite hard, and I'm not a fan of google news whatsoever - its coverage of UK regional media is pretty awful - I've tried to use it to catch up on big events in places I used to live, with no success. (Most of the local sites it links to only receive the small amount of regional feed that the big (inter)nationals like AP/Reuters/... produce. I'd love them to link to some of the smaller local newspaper sites)

On a related note, could I ask you again to please block sockpuppets of User:Irate which edit this article? It makes a complete mockery of the ruling (the strongest possible in WP) if it's not enforced where possible by the admins. Assuming good faith as much as possible, Owain does provide some useful stuff, even if some of it requires rephrasing and npoving, and is trying to find sources to back up this and other articles - I don't want to see editors like him hounded out by the personal attacks and reverts of someone who shouldn't be editing at all, full stop. Thanks for your help, Aquilina 20:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually it seems to me that the article (as I last saw it) is becoming acceptably neutral. Owain seems to be co-operating in that - albeit his last edits I saw were to assert that two parties had adopted this agenda, when neither has it in the manifesto; that means the wording might have been sloppy, so it now says it's not in the manifesto of any British party, and that is unequivocally verifiable, so a brief wrangle has ended up with a watertight and factual statement, which is a good outcome when people disagree over something. It gets reduced to what is verifiable. I have no problem with that.

Yes I agree, the explicit in-line quoting of sources is going to be a prerequisite for further additions to the material. Incidentally, the English Democrats do mention on their website that they are in favour of the reinstation of the pre-1974 boundaries for administration purposes, but I have seen no evidence that they have acted on this at all. Moreover, lukewarm completely-latent support from the mighty English Democrats is hardly a credential worthy of the article(!)

Are the socks the anon IPs? I will go and look into that. My tolerance for sockpuppets is somewhere betwen zero and none at all. Just zis Guy you know? 21:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes they are, mainly the ones beginning 84.9.xxx.xxx, but the odd other too. User:David Gerard blocked a few after his last name account (IanDavies) was blocked eg and , but the time it takes longer to get a response through AN/I than it does for him to change IP (understandably, there's a lot of stuff on AN/I to deal with!). Aquilina 22:34, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Tricky, there's a mixture of edits. If it happens much more I will think about sprotecting it, but the vandalism seems to be at a low level, albeit irritating. IP blocks are more problematic than account blocks. Just zis Guy you know? 23:45, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The edits themselves are irritating, but the personal attacks and allegations are distressing. Sprotecting does help, that would be very welcome. However, most of the time he just waits until it's lifted and starts again, and in-between he shifts on to his other favourite articles. Temporarily blocking the ip's for short periods (<24hrs) works just as well as sprotecting at protecting the ABC article, and stops him editing and causing trouble at other articles too. I understand there may be problems with other editors on the same ip, but there hasn't been before, and that could be dealt with as-and-when. But the call's yours - thanks for your help either way! Aquilina 00:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Please be polite

Your comments on Talk:Simon Wessely are not up to the standards I like to see on Misplaced Pages. Remember, we are Wikipedians. We do not engage in fights with outside groups. We just write the articles. If anyone behaves inappropriately towards us, we should respond with graciousness and kindness even under extreme provocation.  :) --Jimbo Wales 22:36, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, well, they published my personal data on their website, spammed me and all but called me the Antichrist, it got under my skin a bit. Just zis Guy you know? 22:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Wales, I find your comment to be somewhat patronizing here. First of all, we as Wikipedians do much, much more than "just write the articles", and you of all people should know this. Secondly, you failed to point out precisely which comments were "not up to the standards I like to see on Misplaced Pages". If you can't be more specific, how do you expect this person as a contributor to improve? His reactions were well within the realm of reason if you ask me. Silensor 22:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to step in to make it really clear that JzG is an excellent contributor who has in fact done excellent work on helping with the One Click article. I also emailed him privately to commend him on his fine work. My comment was simply about one particular negative statement, he knew the one I was talking about. I don't see any reason for JzG to improve in general, it's just that all of us, even me of course, can use feedback when we are a bit too harsh. JzG is great and I didn't mean my comments to reflect negatively on him at all. --Jimbo Wales 21:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Sheesh, now you've gone and embarrassed me... Just zis Guy you know? 21:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo's right, I was tetchy. But actually I was just admitting to a POV, which is allowed, it didn't occur to em that it was wrong to describe what they did as being offensive. One Click are not nice, even after you've made allowances for them being ill. Just zis Guy you know? 23:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Nourhaghighi

Would you please take a look at Nourhaghighi and related AFD? There surely has to be a speedy deletion criteria which covers this but I'm not sure what. If there isn't there should be! :) --kingboyk 23:14, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Man, that surely needed to be gone. I left some comments, hopefullly the author will read them. Just zis Guy you know? 23:28, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

AfD/List of ...For Dummies books

Hi, JzG. You voted to support my AfD nomination of List of O'Reilly books. There is a similar, and much more contested nomination for AfD/List of ...For Dummies books. Would you be willing to vote for deletion there as well, to help turn the tide? Much apprecitated, Rynne 23:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't claim to be a fan of solicitations to participate in AfDs, but that list does really suck! Just zis Guy you know? 00:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages policy on the use of the title "Dr."

How do we create a policy that wikipedia abides by the academic standard usage of the title "Dr" so users can reference this during controversy/editting wars? So users know that honorary doctorates and unaccredited doctorates do not get to use the title "Dr." Arbusto 00:33, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

It would need to go int he manual of style, I think. Just zis Guy you know? 08:41, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

How do I go about doing that? Arbusto 23:11, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk page at WP:MOS I guess, or raise it at the Village Pump policy page? Guessing here, mind. Just zis Guy you know? 23:39, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Just added my comments. Arbusto 03:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Request for your opinion

Guy, I have noticed your work on AfD before and would like your opinion on Workplace networking. At first glance it might seem to be a legitimate article, but I believe a thorough reading shows that it is some kind of elaborate joke. I haven't done the AfD myself, but I would like your opinon on the article. Thanks. --Hetar 04:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's a thinly disguised attack page. Now cleaned up. Just zis Guy you know? 09:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Request for advice

I've initiated a user conduct RfC (my first and, I hope, last). You had some contact with User:Dzonatas at WP:3RR. What's the proper procedure for notifying other editors that an RfC has started? I've posted this as a query to the RfC talk page and another administrator's talk page and received no guidance. The RfC needs cert

ification from at least one other user in 48 hours. I don't want to be accused of canvassing for opposition to him (if that's a bad thing) or of failing to notify appropriate people (if I'm supposed to do that). Please advise. Durova 17:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

You need to leave a note on the Talk page of the affected user, and I would normally think it appropriate to bring it to the attention of any other editors who are named in the RfC as part of the dispute (on either side). It is also reasonable to note it on the Talk page of any articles which are focal points of the dispute. You will also see that some people may come along and endorse the complaint because they watch the RfC page. Stick to the facts, link diffs wherever possible, be fair at all times and acknowledge your own faults if such their be. State up front any biases you may have. RfCs can get very heated, do not be drawn into slanging matches.

On closer inspection, much of the meat of the fC seems to be founded on the assumption that Dzonatas and Jhballard are one and the same. I don't think that is necessarily proven (unless I've missed some evidence somewhere) so I have requested a CheckUser. Just zis Guy you know? 19:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi its Slayerx675 20:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

the script which i put on is my gcse drama exam, which i need to get on my account at school, so i decided to host it on wikipeia beacasue a lot of websites are disalloed but wiki isn't. so i just need it to put on da comp in skool tnks Slayerx675 20:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. I'm glad it was worth the effort of userfying, thanks for stopping by :-) Just zis Guy you know? 20:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Your warning on my page

Sorry, but could you please explain better what you wrote. I am not sure I understand what you mean by "neutral". Please use the Holodomor discussion page for this. Thanks.--Andrew Alexander 02:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

A gift for you

...from Arbusto - Mark_Wallace (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I'll give you the honour of reviewing and extending my block :) --kingboyk 08:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I see no benefit frmo allowing that one ever to come back. I put the requisite tags on the User and Talk pages, you should try to put the {block} tag on the Talk page and note the exiry tiime when you block accounts, even blatant vandals. Just zis Guy you know? 08:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Righto. That's the first one I've done which wasn't straightforward {{test5}}, in all the excitement I plain didn't think about formalities. --kingboyk 09:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

List of list songs

Enjoy! :) --kingboyk 11:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Gah! Why do these people never start by defining what constitutes a list song? We had no article on list songs to act as a definition, so we can't possibly have a list of them because we haven't defined what constitutes an entry for the list, or indeed why anyone should care. Why does nobody ever start with the encyclopaedic content and then start discussing examples and finally a list? Just zis Guy you know? 12:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I thought you'd like it. --kingboyk 12:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you online?

If you are and if you could spare a few minutes, could you review this for me please? Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for deletion/Knox (flash artist). Sorry to bother you. --kingboyk 14:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The Rouge Admins

I laughed myself silly again. Makes me want to be a Rouge Admin too :P  RasputinAXP  c 17:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Ras... I didn't know you were a Gilbert and Sullivan fan. Well played... er, sung. I wanna be a rouge NON admin... ++Lar: t/c 19:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This week I are been mainly singing "When I was a lad I served a term"; also the Major-General's song. :-) Just zis Guy you know? 20:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I'm not a fan, but I'm certainly aware of it, and have been involved in a few productions, but The Yeomen of the Guard is my favorite ;)  RasputinAXP  c 21:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

My RFA

Thanks for participating in my RfA. It passed with a final tally of 98/13/10, just two short of making WP:100. If you need my help with anything, don't hesitate to ask.

Naconkantari e|t||c|m 23:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Deletion review

Your comments at deletion review regarding Patrick Alexander (cartoonist) are confusing, and also fail to address the issue of whether there was a deletion consensus in the original deletion. I happen to think the process is wrong on this one, and that a nationally published cartoonist is notable. No arguments to counter that were made, and it seems unreasonable to delete on such a basis. I would hope you reconsider your comments, and I apologise for hassling you in this way. Steve block talk 12:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I'm always happy to discuss my reasons. I read the deleted article and the AfD; it strikes me that very little has changed in respect of the subject since the AfD closed, whether or not you believe the AfD debate considered the additional data you provided (which in my experience it likely did). There is quite a bit of history here of pushing by User:DollyD, which account has virtually no history outside of this one subject so is likely either connected with the creator, or a sock or role account of someone. So I think the best thing to do is wait a while to let the dust settle, then create a new and encyclopaedic article and note on the Talk page that this is a new treatment of the subject with additional data. There is no rush here, no deadline to met. If Alexander really is notable then he will be doing new work all the time, and the more of this is verifiable from reliable sources the clearer the decision becomes. Otherwise all that will happen is that someone will come along and AfD it again, which is not a good result for anybody. Just zis Guy you know? 12:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair play. I agree with the wait a while more than the rest. I'm of a mind that the eventual answer is a List of Australian cartoonists and comics creators. Thanks for discussing, and happy editing. Steve block talk 14:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Retraction appropriate?

Here are my posts in the software notability debate which all declare an interest in software I have written:

8<--- snipped, is at Misplaced Pages Talk:Notability (software) (sorry, but my Talk is getting big again and I only archived last week!) --->8

Response also at Misplaced Pages Talk:Notability (software) Just zis Guy you know? 22:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That's fine by me. It's resolved OK (and lost its formatting when I copied it anyway). Stephen B Streater 08:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks. I knew deep down you were a reasonable person :-) Stephen B Streater 18:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh damn, now you've gone and blown my reputation as a rouge admin.... Just zis Guy you know? 22:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

With tag lines like "that anyone can edit", I don't think you'll be short of work. Stephen B Streater 08:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

John Bambenek deletion review

I thought this might interest you: User:Alpha269 has spammed the most recent group of brand-spankin' new admins to come and vote on the deletion review for John Bambenek. Even more interesting is that this editor is explicitly asking the newest, least experienced administrators (myself included) to come weigh in on this issue. I, for my part, am staying out of this, as being cold-called to weigh in because of my lack of experience seems too fishy for me. But I thought this should be brought to the attention of someone else involved in the discussion. Truly, JDoorjam Talk 05:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

He didn't call on me! Is that a compliment or am I not worth the time? hmm... --kingboyk 05:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It backfired a bit :-) Just zis Guy you know? 09:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes indeed, most amusing! --kingboyk 01:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Steve, I think you're pretty well known by now in spammer/foamer circles as "DS", so why would he bother? Either that or you're thought to be no longer among the least experienced (queue Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced)... When do you start flying the Rouge admin flag, by the way? ++Lar: t/c 15:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Once I've found a criteria to speedy delete Lego, that's when! :P --kingboyk 01:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll see you in hell first, mate. They're the most notable thing I've ever met the owner of. ++Lar: t/c 02:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Not for school, again, sorry

Guy, the Misplaced Pages subcat guideline template was recently restored to the page. Before contacting the editor, or starting another discussion on the talk page, I wanted to ask you two things:

1. Is there a process or centralized discussion for the use of that template? I can't find any, and guidelines are not strictly official policy, so I guess disagreement over its use boils down to a regular-old content dispute. If this is to be labeled as a guideline, it seems to me that it needs to receive much wider scrutiny than it has. WP:Notability has gone a long time without this stamp.
2. As it is, what would you think of tagging it with Template:wikipedia essay? A void at the top may continue to attract edits.

Thanks. ×Meegs 20:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, guidelines are supposed to go through the proposal process. This has not, so it should either be tagged as an essay, a proposal, or nothing. ×Meegs 20:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It's an essay. Look at things like WP:BALLS, WP:VSCA and so on. It's not to be taken seriously, it's a way of defusing the pain, a clue-bat wrapped in a joke. Just zis Guy you know? 21:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You have new messages

Hi JzG, I've replied over at Depression Wikicity. I don't know how I missed your message until now! Sorry about that :) --sannse (talk) 07:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Help!

Hi there. I can't work out what happened to my recent request to have my user page restored. Can you help point me at the right place to look, as I seem to remember that you took an interest. Thanks J1838 23:18, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Your best bet is to go over to User Talk:CesarB and ask for unprotection. If you can satisfy CesarB that you won't re-create the attack page, then you might get to have another go in calmer and more neutral terms. Long-standing editors in good standing get a certain amount of slack when putting contentious views on their User pages, but brand-new users whose first edits are to create rants attacking other editors get pretty short shrift. Just zis Guy you know? 23:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Chief Marshal Of The Air Force of the Russian Federation

Thank you for speedy deleting the article, but it seems you did not protect it so editing is still possible... --DmitryKo 00:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Server was not responsive at the time. Just zis Guy you know? 08:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image:1998 Volvo V70.jpg

Please add a source for this photo. Thanks! -SCEhardT 03:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Just zis Guy you know? 08:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

User:69.196.139.250

Hey this guy has done it again. Apparently your warning was not enough. He has posted numerous other messages on my talk page and elsewhere. Aucaman 02:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Speedy merge

Would it be okay to merge University of the Nations and University of the Nations at Kona together? Arbusto 04:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Probably a bit of a mess, I'm not terribly good at these things yet, but at least there's only one article now. Just zis Guy you know? 09:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

and see the Maybe, but it is unaccredited talk at the WR Uni page. Arbusto 11:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Guy, I would have thought leaving a stub at University of the Nations at Kona would have added value, particularly regarding categorisation, ie Category:Education in Hawaii. -- Paul foord 01:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

That can be added to the existing article anyway, since it acknowledges that as its largest base. The two were very similar, and right now there is enough pain keeping the whitewash off one article without making it two. Just zis Guy you know? 18:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Can you describe me what exactly is considered as spam and what is not ?

Hi !

you have deleted my edits about PIM and contact managers. I agree my edits can be considered as "promotion", buit in my opinion it is not spam. For example in http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_personal_information_managers, there is a list of PIM. why can't OD4Contact be listed there ? why are some products listed there and some are banned ?

Most of my edits are simply describing what OD4Contact is: a professional PIM. I've never written something like "this is the best software ever, the others are crap" ... i just want this product to be listed, like some others (MS Entourage, Act! which are *direct* competitors)

Because i'm not very familiar with Misplaced Pages, would you mind replying by email too? please reply at altimac@carrafix.com, thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.99.253.167 (talk • contribs) 17:55, March 17, 2006 (UTC)

See WP:SPAM, specifically the section on external link spamming. You added a web link (not a Wiki link) to eight articles, many of which have no other web links at all, only wiki links. This is generally considered a Bad Thing. Just zis Guy you know? 19:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the link, i'll avoid direct linking to the website, but open a new WP section, with an external link at the bottom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Altimac (talk • contribs)

This may not be the solution either. People don't like you creating articles about your own products. Things must be famous before they get here - in which case someone else will write the article at some point. If it gets deleted, don't take it personally! Stephen B Streater 10:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Just zis Guy you know? 18:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Hattrick

I've closed this as a speedy keep citing WP:POINT. The nominator's sole edits were to that AFD, and it would seem to be a response to the recent deletion through AFD of two other articles. I hope this is agreeable. --kingboyk 18:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I considered doing the same. Normally any AfD with many keeps and no deletes other than the nominator can be closed as speedy keep after a decent interval; in this case there was at least one good-faith delete (albeit weak). But the article patently passes WP:WEB, the nomination was as you say WP:POINT and I would say an early close is uncontentious. Just zis Guy you know? 19:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Aajonus Vonderplanitz

Why on earth was the article deleted?? SouthernComfort 00:48, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Just checked the deletion log and I have to say, I am appalled. You had no cause to delete an article about an actual person started by an experienced WP editor. I had no idea that an article about him had been started before and that it had been deleted (which I most emphatically disagree with, since he is a verifiable human being - enough reason on WP to keep the article). It will have to be restarted and if you want it deleted then, it should be put to another vote since I did not do a "repost" as was claimed in your edit summary. SouthernComfort 00:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Previously deleted by consensus. If you have new evidence of notability over and above what was debated really quite recently, please take it to WP:DRV. Some of us are getting a bit fed up with subjects that are endlessly re-created until eventually a no-consensus AfD keeps them. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it is common enough. Just zis Guy you know? 10:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

WebEx

Guy, I added content to WebEx article re: Zeleny/Zhu dispute and other legal disputes. I tried to write as FM and I discussed. May need some rewording to cover everyone's issues. Look at it as see what you think. FloNight 04:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Just zis Guy you know? 10:35, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Accuracy of registered charities and patient organisation names

Guy, could I ask that you clarify on the discussion page which organisation you are refering to on Talk:Simon Wessely where you say "...the mainstream groups 25% and ME Action"? I assume the first refers to the 25% ME Group, however, there is no patient group or registered charity called "ME Action". Please clarify whether you mean the registered charity patient organisation AfME (Action for ME); the registered charity patient organisation The ME Association (MEA) or the internet campaigning group which maintains a website and discussion forum, "MEActionUK" which is not a registered charity? MEagenda 08:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll be right over. Just zis Guy you know? 10:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for adding the clarification to Talk:Simon Wessely. I was also pleased to see that you are comfortable with the registered charity the 25% ME Group as being a valid source of evidence of opposition to Wessely and the "Wessely School". MEagenda 22:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I've struggled all along with this: it seems to me that there is a depth of animosity towards Wessely which is unexplained in the article, but which we seem unable to explain without recourse to sources which (a) fail WP:RS and (b) go along the lines of "given that this view is wrong, and given that it is Wessely's fault, then Wessely is evil." - when actually neither statement is proven. I long for a proper review of the controversies in the medical press which mentions Wessely by name and actually gives some substance to the thing. In the mean time it is really hard to say, within policy, anything much more than that some people do not like him. You know, of course, that I have a particular problem with One Click, since they saw fit to attack me in a very unpleasant way simply for trying to restate their case in less blatantly biased terms. I also have a problem with their air of wronged innocence, it is very apparent that I am not alone in finding their approach to be unnecessarily combative, and I am very glad that you are still around and contributing to the article, because the only way to get balanced coverage of an issue is for people form all sides to work together. Sometimes I wish I'd never clicked the link - I was only looking for a spelling error! Just zis Guy you know? 22:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate the encouragement, Guy, but I'm not intending to be around any more; I have said on Talk:Simon Wessely that I wouldn't be contributing further to the discussion - the only reason I posted additional comment was because I needed to correct an Admin for a misplaced accusation, and while I was there... It's a sine qua non that an in-depth review of the "Wessely issue" by the broadsheet press or medical journals is long overdue but you are aware of the bias in medical journals and you are aware of Wessely's position and influence and it would take a very brave editor, indeed, to run such an article; it's unlikely to happen and most likely not until research into aetiologies and treatments has caught up (and you are also aware that there is precious little funding being channelled into ME/CFS research). So since Arie's gone, too, the development of the Opposition and Criticism section will be left to you and to "JFW" and whoever else comes along in the future. In terms of medical politics, you will have realised by now that ME/CFS is one of the most controversial arenas - there is a very great deal at stake for those whose research and medical careers have been built on the biopsychosocial model and significant financial implications for the NHS, DWP, social services, for the provision of education for sick children and for the insurance and pensions industries. Opposition, and vehement opposition to Wessely certainly exists and has done so for years and not just amongst the more "extreme" members of the ME/CFS community and their advocates and the forums and websites which provide them with platforms. With careers and research grants at stake it is a brave medic or researcher who is prepared, in the UK, to stick his or her head above the parapet but there a few: Dr Abhijit Chaudhuri, Dr Margaret Cook, Prof Malcolm Hooper. Given the known bias of medical journals and the reluctance of the press to carry criticism of Wessely, his colleagues and his followers it is inevitable that finding sources of evidence which both adequately expresses the depth of opposition and fulfils Wiki requirements was never going to be easy.

There are a couple of points I'd like to leave you with and I'll try to be brief (you may rightly feel that if I still have comment to make then the place to make it would be on the Wessely Discussion page, itself). Firstly, it might be "shorthand" on your part, but I don't consider it helpful to continue to use phrases like "depth of animosity" - this reduces the issue to the personal level whereas the issue is political. Please maintain the focus not on the man himself but on the opposition to his influence and that of the "Wessely School" and the perception of its downstream impact on access to medical care, social care, shaping of DWP policy and the type of tests and treatments offered to ME/CFS sufferers, whether adults or children. Is it not possible to develop a paragraph which would encompass these concepts and includes links to a selection of sources of evidence which have already been provided? I know you're not comfortable with this but I would like to see the link for the ONE CLICK article "The Psychiatric Paradigm" remain; I'd like to see the patient group/charity organisation the 25% ME Group cited as a source of evidence for opposition, likewise the MEA; Prof Hooper and also the Countess of Mar cited as prominent individuals who have (for many years) publicly expressed their opposition to Wessely and "The Wessely School" (Hansard: or does Parliamentary Privilege negate Hansard as being a reliable source?); possibly Dr Eleanor Stein as a psychiatrist who rejects the "Wessley" construct of "CFS".

Secondly, some thought needs to be given to the consideration of whether there is an agenda behind wishing to cite only ONE CLICK as a source of criticism and opposition when it is evident that opposition to Wessely and the "Wessely School" exists not only amongst the more political and vociferous ME/CFS advocates but also amongst the charities who represent the ME/CFS patient community, amongst the academic and medical community and amongst members of the House of Lords. In offering only ONE CLICK as sole source of criticism and opposition, the degree and extent of opposition may be marginalised to just this one "voice" - a "voice" which may be dismissed as being nothing more than an "extreme" view held by a very small but vocal minority; this will grossly understate and misrepresent the true extent of the opposition but perhaps this is precisely what "JFW" seeks to achieve. MEagenda 11:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is difficult for dissenting opinion to get in the medical press, but not impossible. The BMJ will shortly be publishing a review of bicycle helmet laws showing that they have failed in every case to reduce injuries, which is a giant leap for those of us who believe that the monomania for helmets is a distraction from the cause of danger, negligent driving. Dissenting opinion can usually get published somewhere, unless it genuinely is just cranks, which I don't think is the case here (although it does seem that some at least oppose psychological palliatives oin the grounds that they refuse to accept that there is any mental element whatsoever, which as a depressive I find disquieting - I am well aware of the stigma which attaches to "mental illness" despite the fact that many mental illnesses can be directly traced to chemical imbalances in the body and other "physical" causes).

One Click are a very poor example of patient activism. Personal attack is an abysmal way to get your point noted and given proper weight in a political context.

I'm sorry you don't want to continue to contribute. I think that there has been some productive dialogue, and moderate and well-informed voices are always welcome. It is, of course, your choice in the end. But do take a look around the project, there are many other subject areas which need work, and anything which counters the systemic bias towards adolescent male interests is most welcome :-) Just zis Guy you know? 13:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There's a danger here that you are missing the point: the "Wessely School" promulgates the theory that whilst there may be a physiological trigger for the onset of CFS that the perception of continued illness and its maintenance is due to psychological factors, faulty beliefs, "secondary gain", faulty parenting, "deconditioning" et al which can be cured by "rehabilitation programmes" using CBT and Graded Activity/Graded Exercise. CBT may be of help to some sufferers in many types of illness used as an adjunct to other treatments. The issue, here, is that these are not being offered as palliatives but as "cures". GET is known to be detrimental in many sufferers of ME and ICD CFS - it may help those suffering from "fatigue" or from "chronic fatigue" but "fatigue" and "chronic fatigue" are not ME or CFS (unless we are talking Wessley's version of CFS as per Oxford Criteria). And I'm not convinced yet that you see the difference or the implications for the ME/CFS sufferer. I have contacts whose condition has deteriorated significantly following GET programmes. There are children so severely affected by ME that they need to remain in darkened rooms, in silence and tube fed. What are the parents of some of these children told - that their children suffer from "pervasive refusal syndrome". I have adult contacts who are doubly incontinent as a result of severe ME - is CBT going to cure them? No, it is not. It is not the "stigma" of the association of CBT with mental illness which is the issue but the lack of acceptance that an underlying disease process exists and persists in the first place. But all this has been covered already by others in the (now deleted) archives. If you would like copies of any of the research papers or articles I have refered to in the last few weeks - let me know - I'll be more than happy to email them to you. I very much doubt that I would have the time to look at other Wiki stuff, I have a number of committments and I am also the carer of a young man who has lost all his adolescence to this wretched illness - whose 24/7 hyperacusis and "hang over" type headache is still so pronounced, seven years post onset, that he cannot comfortably open a packet of crisps let alone go clubbing or do any of the other stuff young men are into and so I'm a little out of touch, in any case, with adolescent male interests. MEagenda 15:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Ottoman Sultan/Wikipedian Vote for Montenegrin Independence

The above page was userfied from mainspace (Special:Undelete/Wikipedian_Vote_for_Montenegrin_Independence). It seems to me to be divisive and not at all helpful towards our goal of building an encyclopedia. However, I can't find any applicable speedy deletion criteria. Any comments? --kingboyk 10:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Even as a userpage it's terrifically dicey, IMHO. I see JzG popped in and asked nicely... if that doesn't work, try putting it up under WP:MfD and see what happens. I'd pop in and plunk down my two cents for you. ++Lar: t/c 14:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I was gogin to give it a day or so and then go over. As long as it's not being linked, it's not causing an immediate problem, but I don't see it has much potential for good. Just zis Guy you know? 15:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, good move. Thanks for handling it. --kingboyk 16:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Becky-RE-fan

I was about to slap a warning on her, but you beat me to it! It's sad it's even been going on for as long as it has. --]</font>^]]] 23:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Katelyn Faber

Hello : ) This might be of interest to you. There is a content dispute around the use of a tabloid image in the biography of a possible rape victim. Nightscream brought the case to arb comm because Tufflaw keeps removing the image. I removed the image and asked that it not be re-inserted without consensus from a large number of experienced users. Generally, I follow a 1RR and almost never remove except for clear copyright violation or libel. I won't remove it again, but will depend on like minded editor to help figure out the best course of action. I can't see any attempts at dispute resolution. I know you have some experience dealing with these matters. Hopefully this will not turn into a long drawn-out community-wide dispute. FloNight 15:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that there is a copyright violation (the fair use discussions on the email list are confusing and leave me uncertain) and there is not libel, so I'm outside my usual zone for insisting something immediately stay out of an article. I think it doesn't meet WP:BLP so I went with the do no harm rule.

I think the whole article is badly named. The article is not about the person, it is about the case. Maybe it should be re-named or merged with an article about the case if it already exists. : ) FloNight 17:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

To my mind it is already encyclopaedically covered in Kobe Bryant, we do not need an article on Katelyn Faber at all. What has she ever done apart from appear as witness and plaintiff in two court cases? It's pointless celebrity-at-one-remove trivia. We ought to campaign for a change to WP:NOT: Misplaced Pages is not The National Enquirer. Just zis Guy you know? 17:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The image was in Kobe Bryant until I removed it! I left the same stern warning not to put it back in without consensus. : ) Instead of discussing it in both article, lets focus on getting it out of Katelyn Faber first. Then get the image deleted! Can't go back in any other articles that way. Agree about WP:NOT. No female that I know would choose that image for their article. Yet, it is exactly the type of image a tabloid uses to be provocative. --FloNight 22:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree up to a point: it's not our job to flatter a subject. But neither is it our job to collude in tittilation and sensastionalism, especially when that is apparently designed to bolster the reputation of another subject. Just zis Guy you know? 22:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Response to Ben

One more spelling issue, you have "an y" which I think should be "any" JoshuaZ 21:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Advice

Hi. I left the following message on another admin's page, and he directed me to you, saying that you had more experience in this sort of thing (edit: and it looks like you really know where your towel's at!).

Mate I'd like to make a complaint to administration against this guy's use of his user page. For a start, it is offensive to me. It contravines WP:NOT and, I'm sure, many other policies. One particular part borders on incitement. He is using his userpage as a sounding board or soapbox and is quite obviously bigoted, full of hatred, and small minded: not a person I feel that is likely to submit many NPOV edits. I appreciate the recent debates about userboxes etc, but this guy goes much further than anything in the use of userboxes that I've seen.

I am not looking to get the guy banned (although my personal opinion is that Wiki would probably be better off without him). And I would note to you that if I ever come across a user who has similar (though politically opposing) beliefs, I would be just as quick to complain about them too.

I debated in my mind as to whether to put the name of the person here, as I don't necessarily want you to get involved - I just want your help in the actual complaint process (direct me to a page or whatever). Anyway, I figured you could always delete the link later, which is: User:Fenian Swine. --Mal 12:23, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd appreciate any advice you might have to offer me on this matter, as I've never felt the need to take action like this against another editor before. Thanks in advance, --Mal 05:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

This is tricky for me, as a Brit - User:Fenian Swine will not see any contribution I might make as being neutral. I think the best bet is to sak at WP:AN whether this violates the username policy, and whether an admin who is not British could ask him to tone down his user page bya few orders of magnitude. I'll also post this to the mailing list. Just zis Guy you know? 10:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I see he's started an argument with you over his name or something..? I was of course, only asking you for advice - not to necessarily get involved... though, as a Brit, I would assume you might find his userpage insulting also. Can you explain what the mailing list is? Cheers. --Mal 10:59, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I don't find it particularly offensive, but it does seem to be deliberately combative, and many other similarly offensive usernames have been blocked in the past. Info on the mailing list is at WP:ML Just zis Guy you know? 11:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again JzG. I should note that its not his username that I have a particular problem with, but rather the content of his user page. --Mal 12:03, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Llamacon (2nd nomination)

Good morning. You participated in the Deletion Review discussion of this page. The page was relisted on AFD. I noticed that you don't appear to have commented in the AFD discussion yet. So far, there has been scant participation and it may have to be relisted. If you feel it's appropriate, please join the conversation. Rossami (talk) 16:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Gastrich and check user status on his socks

I'm no expert but for a while I have suspected that Gastrich is using some kind of software or IP provider that hides his IP address. My main reason for suspecting this was that so many of the sockpuppets had no known IP"s rather than being a different IP. The following edits by Fred Bauder makes me believe that Gastrich knows full well that any check user against his socks will be inconclusive. It may also explain why he thinks he can use them with impunity despite the fact he does not hide his editing interests or cloak his syntax. Sorry to dump this on to you but you were the one that instigated the RfA so it seems appropriate to voice these concerns to you. David D. (Talk) 17:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Above makes little sense since I was confusing Fred Bauder as being a Gastrich sock (confusion with User:FredTaylor?). Nevertheless, it is surprising that so many of his socks come up with status unknown with regard to check user. David D. (Talk) 17:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Unknown means not proven, that's all. A lot of them are meatpuppets. Just zis Guy you know? 18:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

So there is an IP, but not one associated with Gastrich? I wonder if they all come from a similar IP range (i.e. a known anonymiser service)? I lean towards Gastrich rather than meatpuppets since I would expect meatpuppets to make; 1) more edits, 2) have some region of interest out side Gastrichs sphere (as is the case for usenetpostsdotcom (talk · contribs)). I will also point out that Uncley Davey is probably not a meatpuppet in the true sense since he has only commented in favour of Gastrich and has not actually been involved in the revert wars, unless he is also using sock puppets (he says he is not and this is my response to that claim). David D. (Talk) 19:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I bet they do come from one anonymiser. Arbusto 19:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Unlikely - proxies get blocked, and Fred Bauder is not one to leave an open proxy alive. No, this is garden-variety meatpupptery. Just zis Guy you know? 22:29, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge request

I think List of recognized accreditation associations of higher learning and Nationally recognized accrediting agencies should be merged together. One has a list and the other a description of the groups. Arbusto 19:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please help merge articles

In relation to the following arbitration case, which is nearing completion:

• SimonP and the King James Version

And in relation to the following completed centralised discussions:

• 200 verses of Matthew
• Verses of John 20
• Whole bible chapter text

Some assistance is requested, once the arbitration case is closed, in merging together the following articles

• Matthew 1, Matthew 1:1, Matthew 1:2, Matthew 1:3, Matthew 1:4, Matthew 1:5, Matthew 1:6, Matthew 1:7, Matthew 1:8, Matthew 1:9, Matthew 1:10, Matthew 1:11, Matthew 1:12, Matthew 1:13, Matthew 1:14, Matthew 1:15, Matthew 1:16, Matthew 1:17, Matthew 1:18, Matthew 1:19, Matthew 1:20, Matthew 1:21, Matthew 1:22, Matthew 1:23, Matthew 1:24, Matthew 1:25
• Matthew 2, Matthew 2:1, Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:3, Matthew 2:4, Matthew 2:5, Matthew 2:6, Matthew 2:7, Matthew 2:8, Matthew 2:9, Matthew 2:10, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 2:12, Matthew 2:13, Matthew 2:14, Matthew 2:15, Matthew 2:16, Matthew 2:17, Matthew 2:18, Matthew 2:19, Matthew 2:20, Matthew 2:21, Matthew 2:22, Matthew 2:23,
• Matthew 3, Matthew 3:1, Matthew 3:2, Matthew 3:3, Matthew 3:4, Matthew 3:5, Matthew 3:6, Matthew 3:7, Matthew 3:8, Matthew 3:9, Matthew 3:10, Matthew 3:11, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 3:13, Matthew 3:14, Matthew 3:15, Matthew 3:16, Matthew 3:17
• Matthew 4, Matthew 4:1, Matthew 4:2, Matthew 4:3, Matthew 4:4, Matthew 4:5, Matthew 4:6, Matthew 4:7, Matthew 4:8, Matthew 4:9, Matthew 4:10, Matthew 4:11, Matthew 4:12, Matthew 4:13, Matthew 4:14, Matthew 4:15, Matthew 4:16, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 4:18, Matthew 4:19, Matthew 4:20, Matthew 4:21, Matthew 4:22, Matthew 4:23, Matthew 4:24, Matthew 4:25
• Matthew 5, Matthew 5:1, Matthew 5:2, Matthew 5:3, Matthew 5:4, Matthew 5:5 Matthew 5:6, Matthew 5:7, Matthew 5:8, Matthew 5:9, Matthew 5:10, Matthew 5:11, Matthew 5:12, Matthew 5:13, Matthew 5:14, Matthew 5:15, Matthew 5:16, Matthew 5:17, Matthew 5:18, Matthew 5:19, Matthew 5:20, Matthew 5:21, Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:23-4, Matthew 5:25, Matthew 5:26, Matthew 5:27, Matthew 5:28, Matthew 5:29, Matthew 5:30, Matthew 5:31, Matthew 5:32, Matthew 5:33, Matthew 5:34, Matthew 5:35, Matthew 5:36, Matthew 5:37, Matthew 5:38, Matthew 5:39, Matthew 5:40, Matthew 5:42, Matthew 5:43, Matthew 5:44, Matthew 5:45, Matthew 5:46, Matthew 5:47, Matthew 5:48
• Matthew 6, Matthew 6:1, Matthew 6:2, Matthew 6:3, Matthew 6:4, Matthew 6:5, Matthew 6:6, Matthew 6:7, Matthew 6:8, Matthew 6:9, Matthew 6:10, Matthew 6:11, Matthew 6:12, Matthew 6:13, Matthew 6:14-5, Matthew 6:16, Matthew 6:17, Matthew 6:18, Matthew 6:19-20, Matthew 6:21, Matthew 6:22, Matthew 6:23, Matthew 6:24, Matthew 6:25, Matthew 6:26, Matthew 6:27, Matthew 6:28, Matthew 6:29, Matthew 6:30, Matthew 6:31, Matthew 6:32, Matthew 6:33, Matthew 6:34
• Matthew 7, Matthew 7:1, Matthew 7:2, Matthew 7:3, Matthew 7:4, Matthew 7:5, Matthew 7:6, Matthew 7:7, Matthew 7:8, Matthew 7:9, Matthew 7:10, Matthew 7:11, Matthew 7:12, Matthew 7:13, Matthew 7:14, Matthew 7:15
• John 20, John 20:1, John 20:2, John 20:3, John 20:4, John 20:5, John 20:6, John 20:7, John 20:8, John 20:9, John 20:10, John 20:11, John 20:12, John 20:13, John 20:14, John 20:15, John 20:16, John 20:17, John 20:18

And any other such articles that may currently exist

I have already prepared example merges of some of these articles

• Merge Example 1 is a merge of verse articles from Matthew 1:1 to Matthew 1:17 -> should be merged to Genealogy of Jesus
• Merge Example 2 is a merge of verse articles from Matthew 3:1 to Matthew 3:17 -> should be merged to Baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist (or similar title)

For titles check out List of New Testament stories (many are currently redlinks)

--Victim of signature fascism | There is no cabal 20:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Ouch! That's a job and a half. I wonder to what extent SimonP will help? Just zis Guy you know? 22:28, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Get Real

Don't even think about bringing up this stupid subject again. Im keeping the name and I don't appreciate you, an administrator of all people, bringing Wiki in to disripute over PC gone mad. This subject was put to bed months ago, with all parties in agreement that I would keep my name. So please, as the administrator you are, find better things to do with your time than to cause argument, stir trouble and discriminate against people of the island of Ireland.--Play Brian Moore 23:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you know something? I was as polite as I could reasonably have been, and you have just acted like a complete dick. Just zis Guy you know? 23:30, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Your advice lol has fallen on deaf ears. You have left a bitter taste in my mouth. I have been editting Wiki for the best part of a year and have had very little trouble with the name(apart from a colourful discussion around August of '05). If 'jimbo' or 'angela', or any other user for that matter, has a problem with my user name they would be well advised to confront me themselves instead of sending down one of their pawns to contact me. The use of the term dick shows just how bad Wiki has become. Someone like myself, who has made over 1,000 consrtuctive edits, cannot become an administrator while someone who just throws out derogatory terms can become an administraotor. One must wonder whether this is yet another example of Wiki's discrimination. The name stands. I use a different name when editting. So unless Jimbo is willing to get off his throne and confront the problem himself, then I won't give the name change another thought. Now could you please stop wasting time with this Political correctness and try not to throw tantrums or use name calling as a means of abuse to get your way.--Play Brian Moore 23:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

what possible value you can see in the use of a deliberately provocative user name. This is your opinion. The name is not intentionally provocative. So please, keep your biased opinions to yourself.--Play Brian Moore 23:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Mine, Jiombo's and Angela's, it seems. Now try being WP:CIVIL. Your asseriton of "tantrums" is patently absurd, my message sto you have been very calm indeed. Just zis Guy you know? 00:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Messages to me, they have been calm but on your own talk page, you have thrown out derogatory terms, including dick. If you call this calmness, then we obviously have a different idea of what the word 'tantrum's means. And please, just let it go. The name stands. And maybe, jsut maybe, you should take some of your own advice and be civil towards me. I admit, I am not American(thank god) but I still have as equal a right to edit here as you.--Play Brian Moore 00:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Your aggressive response to a calm request was dickish, and that one word was the sole example of anythiong other than 100% solid-gold civlity towards you. I am not American either. Just zis Guy you know? 08:27, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I showed no aggression, I simply told it how it was.--Play Brian Moore 17:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, so that's how you react to all polite requests is it? Fascinating. Just zis Guy you know? 18:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, so thats why you became an administrator. So you could annoy people who have different political views to you and then call them dicks. Ah well fascinating. Actually, now that I think of it, not fascianting at all, kind of boring, in fact. But there you go.--Play Brian Moore 18:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I became an admin because numerous people asked me to and two nominated me. And I didn't set out to annoy you, either, I politely pointed out that your username (and indeed some of the comments on your user page) are considered offensive by some people; I asked you very nicely if you wouldn't consider changing. Your aggressive reaction was predictable, I guess, but not particularly constructive. What do you think I should have done, as an admin, in response to the comments I received about your username and user page? Just zis Guy you know? 18:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

You should have checked out my archived discussion pages to see it the highly offensive topic had been brought up before. If it had, you should have seen the result of the discussion and made a judgement based on that. From your approach, it would appear to me, althought I may be wrong, that you did not check anything I had done before and just opened fire. Im not going to change the name, it has stood for almost a year and is being perceived as offensive. Anyone can take anyhting to be offensive, as some form of slang. I'm not too bothered about people like that.--Play Brian Moore 19:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

What I did was to consult other experienced editors adn admins on the mailing list. Some expressed no special concerns, but some, including Jimbo and Angela (whose views are not without a certain weight in these parts) were uncomfortable with it. Of course, I could have ignored that and done nothing. That worked really well for Neville Chamberlain, didn't it? ;-) Meanwhile, some people still don't like it. Obviously you don't care. I don't much, either, but I thought I would at least ask. It seemed the right thing to do. Just zis Guy you know? 19:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Obviously not, Mr.Churchill??--Play Brian Moore 21:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Breastcruft

Pure gold. - brenneman 00:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

From that write up: " I don't actually think she ahs ever done " (say it slowly)... Freudian slip? ++Lar: t/c 01:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"nn-band"

As you can see from Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Nn-band. All of the existing references to it, assume that it is, as it was before, an alias of the "db-band" template, just as "nn-bio" redirects to "db-bio". I like the idea of the template you are wanting to create instead, but I think it would be best if you used a different name rather than overwriting this redirect. — Mar. 21, '06 <freakofnur_xture|talk>

Gah! Bollocks. Brain fade, sorry. I'll go and fix it. Just zis Guy you know? 14:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Jason Gastrich

The above arbitration case has been closed and the finall decision published.

For the arbitration Committee. --Tony Sidaway 19:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Doe, John (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) this user' first and only edit was to revert a list of Christian links. Then an anon. IP in the range of 24.* which Gastrich has uses added to the list.

Gastrich block

Just looked at the block on User talk:Jason Gastrich and noticed something... see how it says "The block is for a period of one year from 21 March, 2007." The wording's off; it should read that it's from 21 March, 2006. Otherwise, the implication is that the block starts about a year from now. I'm guessing that's a template thing, but in any case, thought you might want to fix the typo. ...since it's of such immense importance, and all. Man, my hard work here just knows no bounds. Tijuana Brass 05:01, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

s/from/to, obv. :-) Thanks Just zis Guy you know? 07:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Gastrich case spinoff

I guess we're the uninformed et al. here: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Markkbilbo.2C_Harvestdancer.2C_Daycd.2C_Dbiv.2C_WarriorScribe AvB ÷ talk 08:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar of Diligence Award

Awarded for diligent quality work from Simon Wessely to the Jason Gastrich RfC & RfAr and so much more in between. And for making me die laughing at times. AvB ÷ talk 09:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Propsed move for RCC

• JzG, please visit Talk:Roman Catholic Church#REQUESTED MOVE to Catholic Church again. If voters don't start responding to my actual case (laid out in the discussion section), and explain to me why Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Eastern Orthodox Church, Church of Christ, and similar articles, should be titled by their claimed names--even though they can be ambiguous--but the Catholic Church should not be extended the same treatment, then I will begin proposing moves for those articles, as well. Merely for the sake of consistently applying this new de facto policy we are inventing for this article. Also see Robertsrussell's point on this double standard at the top of the page. --Hyphen5 09:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

John J. Gumperz

Copied from my response to your comment on my talk page:

• Agreed...to a point, which is why I retracted the AfD nomination as soon as some notability was provided. The article, as written when originally prodded, is here, with the only assertion of notability listed with no citations. In that state, it could have easily gone up for speedy deletion, but I figured {{prod}}ing it was fair. Its true that the tone in which Monicasdude contested the proposed deletion did nothing to improve my outlook on the article. But given the fact that no improvement was made to it, the nomination for AfD was made in good faith. --Bugwit grunt / scribbles 23:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Good faith is not in dispute. But Brian's right: real subjects have a much harder ride than fictional ones these days, and that's bad. Just zis Guy you know? 23:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• Copied from my response to your comment on my talk page::

• I understand, and will try to include more information when prodding/AfDing articles. My reaction was primarily due to the fact that, after ignoring similar actions by Monicasdude towards me previously, and seeing that I was not alone in being in his crosshairs, I found that this is nothing new, and that RfCs have been filed here and here for exactly this kind of behavior. I realize that referring a user to WP:DICK is generally considered bad form, but given his history, I felt (and feel) that it was perfectly appropriate, and long overdue if it had not been done previously. It seems to me that Monicasdude likes to leave certain articles in poor states as "bait" (see User:Monicasdude/deletionwatch) for any poor sap who would dare come along and try to delete them. He doesn't edit them to improve them, just adds them to the deletion watch (obviously this is purely opinion, but seems like a reasonable assumption). According to the final disposition of the 2nd RfC, an RfAr is in the works, and I fully intend to participate. Users like this create vastly more harm than good, and (once again) in my opinion, have no place here. --Bugwit grunt / scribbles 12:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

Template:RFM-Filed

NatSel

I saw your changes at the NatSel page. The reason any no one is changing it is to prevent an edit war that is going on, and there is a Request for arbitration made to solve some of the issues. I think that there is a decent lead introduction stored elsewhere, but not inserted again to avoid edit warring. Later today, I am going to take your piece to the talkpage (without replacing it) for comments. --KimvdLinde 15:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I know there is an edit war. And it applies to text within the article., But the opening was utterly baffling to me, and I understand what natural selection is. Yes, there is valid debate about how the term should be defined, but the lead needs to state what it is, it doesn't need to define it in detail, it just needs to give a very short description of what the topic is. So I was bold. Just zis Guy you know? 16:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, his lead was utterly baffling. KimvdLinde 16:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Quite. Arbitration is about user conduct not content anyway, and in the end the project comes first: having an article on a major topic (and one hotly disputed by some) which starts with something which is barely comprehensible even to those who have a reasonable understanding of the subject does not look good. I'm all for debate, of course, but sometimes things need to be just fixed :-) Just zis Guy you know? 16:51, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I tried, just takes hours before it gets edited away again. KimvdLinde 16:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

In that case I will lock the sucker :-) It will of course be the wrong version... Just zis Guy you know? 16:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

LOL KimvdLinde 17:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

MfD

Hi JzG,

I notice a CfD nom of yours is way down at the bottom of the MfD page; just wondering if you knew, so you could fix it. Best wishes, Xoloz 17:40, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, will sort it.

My RFA

	Thank you! Thank you for supporting / opposing / vandalising my RFA! The result was 71/3/0 and so I am now still a normal user / an administrator / indefinitely banned. Your constructive criticism / support / foulmouthed abuse has given me something to think about / helped me immensely / turned me into a nervous wreck. If there's any way I can help you in return, please ask someone else / suffer and die / drop me a line! --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 19:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Mr Blanning, thank you for choosing the ACME Auto-thanker! Simply strike out the phrases that do not apply and tear off this strip at the indicated line to give all your supporters and detractors the personalised response they so richly deserve. N.B: DO NOT FORGET TO TEAR THIS BIT OFF, MORON!

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Famous People With A.D.D

In re this AfD, if you think it to be a copyright infringement, as your nomination suggests, it should be blanked and go to WP:CP instead. AfD isn't the venue for dealing with copyright infringements, since we can't retain them whichever way the AfD swings. -Splash 21:16, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The names are taken from the (unreliable) sources, but extra data is added. Still speculation. Just zis Guy you know? 23:52, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Umm...I was only really dealing with the fact that you alluded to copyright violation in your nomination. I wasn't referring to whether it should be kept or not. It's just a fairly standard reminder that, if one suspects copyright infringement, the first stop is WP:CP, rather than AfD. -Splash 23:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I got the drift. Too many balls in the air at the moment. Just zis Guy you know? 00:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Personal Rapid Transit Mediation

Thank you for taking on the task of mediating the PRT page.

I am mentioned by name in the Misplaced Pages personal rapid transit article and attacked by name on the PRT Talk page and my Talk page and other Misplaced Pages pages by anonymous authors.

This is what those anonymous authors have said about me:

"You're on crack."

"Avidor's psychotic interjections "

"Unreasonable, destructive, irrational, unwilling to debate changes. This is Avidor's history on Misplaced Pages"

"...his actions are based in mental illness rather than reason."

One of these anonymous accusers has made these statements about me to mediators:

"So now you're bowing out ,eh? You went in and empowered that fucking idiot and now you're dropping it on the floor. You are as much a moron as he is. "

"Avidor is an 'extremist'."

Why do you allow anonymous authors to post this stuff?

Like John Seigenthaler Sr., I think I deserve to have a chance to clear my name and have this dispute resolved as quickly as possible.

Also in the article itself are the following:

"PRT IS A JOKE Is a Joke (satire)- Web site owned by a non-cartoonist supportive of PRT.

Analysis of some of the anti-PRT arguments originated by Ken Avidor."

Speaking of "Mr. Grant" (David Gow)...

Mr. Gow has encouraged "Transportation Enthusiast" on his blog but has since removed this post encouraging T.E. from his blog.... why?

FYI about "Transportation Enthusiast"... he was banned from the Seattle P.I. web board and his comments erased

Why is Misplaced Pages allowing T.E., "Mr. Grant" and others to use Misplaced Pages describe me as mentally ill and psychotic on this page and others?

It's ironic that T.E. and his anonymous accomplices have had me blocked and my comments removed from the PRT Talk page.

Even more ironic is that I am mentioned by name in the Misplaced Pages PRT article itself.

What kind of "encyclopedia" allows anonymous character assasination while preventing the accused from defending himself?

It's also important to note that Leroy Demery's (a transportation consultant using his own name) comments were also removed from the talk page.

It is also important to note that this article is likely being used to influence legislators in Minnesota to vote in favor of PRT bills in the current session. In the past, PRT companies have sold stock to investors. Wiikipedia should be very concerned about misinformation that may influence public officials and investors.

Avidor 19:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

You'll notice that I have said I think you have a point. But I also think you could be more constructive in what you say (not that it's entirely your fault, there seesm to be a bit of an argumentative crowd over there). I think I might archive the Talk page and try for a bit of calm, I'm not sure. Just zis Guy you know? 21:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

JzG, please please please look at the history of this debate. Avidor started out by calling PRT proponents "cultists" and repeated the word "cult" a half a dozen times. Every time we asked him for detail, he responded with vague demands or links to his own web pages that are basically political in nature. The few times he's raised valid concerns, we've addressed them immediately!

Here's a sampling of his responses on the talk page:

• "If I wrote the article it would say that PRT is a hoax and an anti-transit scam... which it is."
• "You bet I'm biased against PRT...it's a hoax and a scam."
• Why don't you e-mail and complain to Jimmy Wales? Tell him that Avidor won't let you and your anti-transit CETA pals do to LRT what was done to John Seigenthaler Senior." (Note that LRT - light rail transit - is barely mentioned anywhere in the article or talk page)
• What kind of an engineer are you anyway, TE?
• S'funny how many of these PRTers turn out to be computer software engineers who think they can re-invent transit to be like the internet...
• As for your PRT "visionaries"...Ed Anderson? last I read he was running his PRT company out of his house. Haven't heard much about him since the Taxi 2000 lawsuit. Is there anything new? Jerry Schneider? Check out the movie of the toy monorail Schneider thinks is worth putting on his wacky gadgetbahn website: {link}. Some visionaries!!!"

Here's a good example: when we added links to pages about PRT, at his request, he responded with the following:

"No links to anything real... just true believers in a lost cause following crackpot 'visionaries'. Yep, the PRT cult is in firm control of this Misplaced Pages page."

So basically, his argument is anyone who studies PRT is a crackpot and should not be linked from the page, but then he demands links to external references! It's a circular argument: when you link to a page discussing PRT, he dismisses the link as the work of crackpots! Never mind the fact that these are tenured professors who have spent their lives studying transit (with a focus on PRT) and publishing books on the topic. It doesn't matter to him because his POV is firmly established: PRT is the work of crackpots and scam artists, and any evidence to the contrary (there are reams of it) is offensive to him.

Realize that this conflict has been going on for two months now: Avidor adding the NPOV with no explanation, followed by us asking Avidor for clarification (or, even better, requesting that he make the changes himself if he so chooses) and him responding with nothing actionable. Then, the mediators show up, and he acts like a victim. It's all a game to him: he can't get his version of PRT to be displayed, so he's going to continue to trash this article to make his point. Please read the history.

We have always been motivated to fix this page -- it's Avidor that wants to trash it because it conflicts with his belief system.

One more thing unrelated to the Avidor debate: I just made a minor change to the intro, indicating that PRT is not proven in a real world setting (it has been proven in prototypes). Please let me know what you think. A Transportation Enthusiast 23:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read the history. Avidor is right: muchopf the article looks like advertorial. This is in many ways a misleading impression, since a lot of the text is neutral, but the overabundance of external links does not help. It's clearly written by an enthusiast, which is fine, but it's a bit too clearly written by an enthusiast, which is part of Avidor's point. Just zis Guy you know? 23:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you realize that many of those links were added because Avidor and the previous mediator demanded them? Earlier versions of the page were not linked everywhere, but then Avidor demanded (with his repeated re-application of NPOV) that everything be "wikified" ("LINKS LINKS LINKS" - see the talk page) so we added links everywhere.

If you read the history, did you count the number of times that Avidor provided valid, actionable items? In each case, we addressed his concerns immediately. But how were we to address them when he was non-specific? For example: direct quote: "If I wrote the article it would say that PRT is a hoax and an anti-transit scam... which it is. Prove that it isn't and back your claims up with LINKS to FACTS not conjecture, not opinion, not wishful thinking." How were we supposed to address that vague concern? Lacking detail, we added links everywhere, which is why the page is what it is today. A Transportation Enthusiast 23:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

What I did was read through the past debate, note the substance of the points made, and then forget it. It's not a case of who is right and who is wrong, it's about taking the article and making it better. There is right on both sides (else I'd just have warned Avidor off ad left t at that); apportioning degrees of rightness to individual contributors in unproductive. It was fair to say, in vague terms, it sucked a bit. In vague terms, it had too many external links and was too accepting of what is, after all, largely unproven technology. Now as it happens I don't think e;evated rail schemes are ugly, but lots of people do, and we should acknowledge that. The RKB cartoon accurately identified some of the potential problems. Do you not acknowledge those potential problems? Well, obviously you acknowledge them, since the article had at least some of them already. It's not seriously broken, but neither is it a dispassionate review of the subject. Past experience idciates that working with others with opposing views makes a better article in the end. With a bit of pain :-) Just zis Guy you know? 23:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. Your edits have been mostly an improvement so far. The only thing I'll add is, it's nice to have someone that is working with us now. We were never against dispassionate review or debate... but Avidor did neither.

And, FWIW, nobody objected to Avidor adding his objections -- there's never been a debate about him including his skepticism. The debate was mainly Avidor making mostly vague demands that could not be addressed.

But I'll go along with your advice to forget it and move on, if Avidor cooperates. A Transportation Enthusiast 23:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, much the best thing. beware of the tigers :-) Just zis Guy you know? 00:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

JZG,

"I have just removed more of Avidor's ranting to his sub-page. He is NOT welcome here any more. Skybum 16:13,"

It is not pleasant to be attacked and libeled by anonymous accusers... worse to not be able to respond. Avidor 07:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

JZG-"Assuming you are the Ken Avidor..." If you have doubts, I suggest you send an e-mail to verify this. Contact info at the bottom of this page

Avidor 12:56, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

By tradition on Misplaced Pages an editor is entitled to anonymity, that is, not to be linked to their "external" persona. Looking at your user page I guess you do make the link yourself, so the qualification was unnecessary. I was just being careful :-) Count me a fan of RKB, cyclist agit-prop of a high order. I guess you'll have spotted by now that I ride a bike... Just zis Guy you know? 13:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Uploaded as requested... not sure if I did this right:

If I didn't, let me know the correct way to upload, tag etc.

I am very pleased with the progress on the page... particularly the removal of weasel words (I never heard that term before).

Thank you. Avidor 12:39, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

JzG: We seem to have reached an impasse on the two points I raised on the PRT talk page. I really like almost all the changes you've made on this page, except (a) the elimination of Light Rail Now rebuttals and (b) the inclusion of the cartoon. The whole article is now presented in a factual, straightforward way (thanks largely to you) but the criticism section now contains a very strong POV due to the cartoon. Shouldn't the "don't sell it" rule also apply to criticism? Avidor's cartoon is not about raising arguments against PRT, but rather selling his anti-PRT position. I think the criticism section should be a place to outline the debate, not to display an anti-PRT campaign poster containing inflammatory and unproven claims. I would like to debate this further but the debate seems to have ended (people are voting, not debating), and I don't want to cause trouble by making the change myself. Can you help? Can you at least answer my concerns about POV? I am still having trouble seeing why this cartoon should be here. I certainly don't see it as lighthearted given that it contains a reference to terrorism, and I can't see how it can be NPOV given its content. A Transportation Enthusiast 17:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

JzG: I frankly don't understand the justification of removing one side of the debate while keeping the other. The main portions of the article are now almost completely fact-based with no promotion or POV (thanks to your work -- and thank you for that). But, you removed the "Pros" section so there is no section for putting the PRT side of the debate, and you removed all references to the PRT side from the criticism section! So now you have (1) a factual section on PRT theory with no advocacy (and rightly so!), and (2) a single section that contains only criticism, with no answer to that criticism. There is no indication of the ongoing debate between advocates and critics. How is this a balanced treatment? How does Vuchic (who has not extensively studied PRT) get a full paragraph of criticism but Anderson (virtually the father of PRT) is not quoted at all in response? This is quite arbitrary to me. The PRT answer to the criticism (which is reasoned and fact-based) needs to be included somewhere in this article. If not in the criticism section, then elsewhere. A Transportation Enthusiast 21:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV does not mean allowing the proponents of something not only to state their case but to rebut every point made by their opponents. Just zis Guy you know? 22:09, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Where is the pro case being stated in the first place? The bulk of the article is history and system design -- which is basically just a NPOV presentation of facts. You've removed almost all instances of salesmanship and promotion from these sections, and rightly so. In fact, in a few cases, criticism is interspersed in these sections, which is also fine. But you also removed the entire section that discussed the arguments in favor of PRT. So what's left? Only a neutral section followed by one side of the debate. A Transportation Enthusiast 22:43, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

The fact of the article's existence is inherently "pro". It could just say that personal rapid transit is an untried technology which has never been used beyond the prototype stage and which conflicts with regulatory and other regimes. Just zis Guy you know? 22:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

It does say all that! I quote: "no PRT project has yet progressed beyond a prototype"... "legitimate questions remain"... "lack of financing"... "predicted cost overruns"... "conflicts with regulatory agencies"... "PRT is a controversial concept"... "yet to be proven in a real world setting"... all this from the introduction! How can this be considered "pro"? It's plain statement of fact, as is the history section, as is the design section. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. There is nothing "pro"-PRT in the entire article. Up until the criticism section, it is a pure statement of fact. The only section which discusses the arguments is the criticism section, and it only gives half the story. A Transportation Enthusiast 03:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm staring at the soggy, bitter tea leaves at the bottom of my cup... I really have a lot of artwork to get to... arguing about PRT is not a good use of my time... is there some way that the PRT article can be frozen to stop this incredible waste of everybody's time?Avidor 16:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

JzG: I like the debate that's happening now on the talk page. I understand your points, although I don't quite agree with them. I do like the fact that you have turned this into a rational discussion rather than a flame war. We've even gotten some new faces in the debate on both sides (someone new just raised the cost question on the anti- side of the debate, and I think he has some good points). But currently there are 2 or 3 separate discussions interspersed on the talk page, and it's getting confusing. So I was thinking maybe I should go in and re-organize it into separate sections where the different points can be debated. If I don't hear from you, I'll do this tonight. Thanks again for your continued work on this article... I think we're almost there. A Transportation Enthusiast 16:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Um, I tried to organize the talk page, but I failed miserably. There's a lot of interspersed arguments in there and I didn't want to screw anything up. I decided it'd be best to leave it alone. Regarding the criticism section, I am still convinced that the pro-feasibility side is unfairly squelched in this debate. I know you're more experienced than I am, but I fail to see how suppressing half of a debate is somehow a POV improvement. If we present one side, we should present the other, and I've seen no WP:policy that would disallow that in this case. A Transportation Enthusiast 05:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

T.E likes to debate....his endless, endless, endless debating got him banned from the Seattle PI web board. I'm usually for unlimited free speech..but in this case....C'mon, some of us have a life...Avidor 00:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Request superpower assistance...shut it down...delete it...freeze it...something...please...Avidor 14:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Invitation

The Mediation Cabal

You are a disputant in a case listed under Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases. We invite you to be a mediator in a different case. Please read How do I get a mediator assigned to my case? for more information.
~~~~

--Fasten 13:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Request for Blanking

Please blank or authorize the blanking of my User Talk page so that I can have a fresh start. Regardless of our past differences, I would hope you can see that the "teapot tempests" there do not reflect the totality of my contributions, giving strangers a false impression of what I can do or have done on Misplaced Pages. Also, given that total strangers are now editing previously existing material on the page, it seems that there is a high potential for malicious vandalism which I, if I understand the rules correctly, would not be allowed to remove or revert.

Your help would be appreciated.

Davidkevin 20:20, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Actually it's not too hard to do - you just click Move, move it to User Talk:Davidkevin/Archive n, then click the link to take you back to Talk and make the redirect back into a link. Or copy & paste, that's legit as well. But I'm all for clean slates after the dust has settled. Just zis Guy you know? 20:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I was asking for erasure, not archiving into even more permanancy. Not intending to be argumentative, but I don't see how filing the slate cleans it.

Davidkevin 20:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

No, erasure is not what you want, trust me - people will often tend to view that with suspicion. There is nothing wrong with drawing a line under the past, but you can't deny that it happened. Look at the archives on my Talk page, there is plenty to see there and it all says things about who I am. Your best bet is to make a statement on the Talk page saying that you are making a fresh start. Trust me, I have see far more disputatious Talk page histories than yours. I think you are doing the right thing walking away from past conflicts, and playing a straight bat is part of that. That's my view, anyway. You can MfD if if you want it killed now, but I recommend you don't. Just zis Guy you know? 21:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Good things said about one, even if true, are remembered but a moment; bad things said about one, even if false, are remembered and archived until the heat-death of the Universe.

I give up. Thank you for your advice.

Davidkevin 22:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not like that. Few people bother probing the archives, they are just there for transparency. Honestly, this is the right thing. Far worse things have been said about me on talk pages! Just zis Guy you know? 22:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

RfD Catholicism (disambiguation)

JzG, I agree about your suggestion for a wider debate on the Catholic articles. However, I see no reason why Catholicism (disambiguation) should serve as the catalyst for that debate. It is a stub, and an uninformed one. We have better articles that act as disambigs for all the many churches (e.g., Catholic, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and Catholicism itself). --Hyphen5 00:29, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Gastrich puppets

1. Weasel_Finder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - A new user who finds a problem with calling Louisiana Baptist University unaccredited.
2. Doe,_John (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - A new user quoting wikipedia policy. His only two edits are to revert the removal of a list of links to Christian schools. Arbusto 04:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Sean Ripple AFD

See Template_talk:Afdx for how to properly list articles with existing AFDs. You also might want to archive this page. kotepho 21:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I know, thanks. I use jnothman's AFD Helper script, which defaults to AFD, not AFDx. Sean Ripple was previously AfD'd but there was nothing in "what links here" or the deleted history because the previous incarnation was userfied. Just zis Guy you know? 21:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

If it was userfied, there would be a deleted redirect in the page history. I knew I'd seen the page before, and I think the issue is that it was recently restored after listing at DRV. --kingboyk 21:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I would have expected that, but there is nothing in the deleted history at all. And "what links here" does not link to DRV (because, of course, DRV gets cleared out). There is no reference to the delete debate or DRV on Talk. I'm not above clueless errors - actually I make them all the time, including with two other AfDs today - but this one is very puzzling. Just zis Guy you know? 21:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It mentions DRV in the edit history, and I'm pretty sure I commented in the debate. I've certainly commented on it at one time or another :) Page log --kingboyk 21:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks from the log like it was userfied and the redirect deleted, then presumably recreated, it got AFD'd and deleted, then it got restored per DRV (complete with the redirect to user space). It's had an interesting life, that one. --kingboyk 21:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

So it does. Ah well. Relisting after DRV is never a problem, I guess. I am still thoroughly unconvinced of this guy's notability, as well as very confused :-) Just zis Guy you know? 21:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

GNAA, pleh

Thanks for closing that AfD, really. Someone needed to do it sooner rather than later... if I seemed like the most likely candidate to give you a hard time about it, I just wanted to reassure you that I am not gonna do that at all. As I've said, there's just not enough verifiable information for an article on the subject, and I still feel that way, but bad faith nominations aren't the way to deal with it at all. As for the actual article, I came to the conclusion a while back that "fixing it" is really just not worth the aggravation, to me at least. --W.marsh 22:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. I think the article sucks, GNAA are trolls (read: not notable) and the whole mess has no place on WP, but the last thing we need is to waste still more time over them. That said, their wiki-war on blogs meets with my qualified approval :-) Just zis Guy you know? 22:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Benapgar

I noticed that you have continued to post comments on Ben's talk page, after his blocking. I am curious as to what you think you will accomplish by this. JoshuaZ 00:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

A blocked user can still read, still comment on his Talk page and still appeal the block. I haven't see the ArbCom ruling which makes the block yet, it may not have been ArbCom (I don't know) and if it wasn't it may be reduced. Even Gastrich only got blocked for a year. Just zis Guy you know? 09:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Payment arrangements

I have a large cashier's check here, ready to be sent, as soon as I have an address. - Corporate America (sell out!) 06:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, and, um, help?

Gripes aside, I really do appreciate your intervention over at Personal Rapid Transit -- your actions certainly improved things dramatically. Meanwhile, I seem to have gotten involved in a minor edit war over at Burj Dubai. I think that the issue is much more clear-cut in this case, and I believe that I'm on the right side of it. Unfortunately, I'm going to be on vacation and mostly off-line for the next week, and won't be able to attend to it. Any way that you could patch things up over there? Skybum 06:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems calm right now, I will keep an eye though. Just zis Guy you know? 09:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Arbustoo

I do not know what you aim to achieve by likning Arbustoo's editing history, but since it is simply obtained I see no reason to make a point of it. Just zis Guy you know? 09:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure most Wikipedians don't know how to get that info, and I thought that those editting some pages would like to see where he seems to focus all his efforts. Kalmia 20:38, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It's trivially easy, and his edit history is a matter of record. His work in opposing the whitewashing of unacredited "universities" is no secret at all. Just zis Guy you know? 22:16, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

This is very generous (and perhaps a bit naive) to Arbustoo. His motives are highly suspect, as he commonly adds critical commentary to primarily, if not only, Christian entries. Any positive work he has done on Misplaced Pages or on education entries is surely overshadowed by his bias against Christian entries. --Doe, John 23:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

My "problem" with some enteries is that they mislead the reader pertaining to evidence, science, and credentials. You just seem to see the world in fundamental Christianity vs. the rest of the world. For example, you are opposed to the theory of evolution for emotional and religious reasons, not for scientific or evidential reasons. Thus, you are fighting a frustrating and uncited battle with your only supporters/authors are people on the fringes of academia who are preaching only to those who themselves have perdetermined conclusions that are not represented by the facts. You better believe that if I see anything misleading or innaccurate, I will correct according to sources and reason. Arbusto 02:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Please explain why you white washed criticism and the note that his "PhD" is unaccredited etc. Then please explain why you encouraged another editor to continue white washing the same article. Arbusto 00:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

If you think Arbustoo is a problem there are several courses open to you per dispute resolution. Please be aware, however, that Misplaced Pages's policy of neutral point of view is widely misunderstood - if you read it you will see that it does not mean we have to be nice about article subjects, we have to reflect the balance of opinions with appropriate weight; in cases like these that means accurately reflecting the dominant view, which is that degrees from unaccredited institutions are of substantially lesser value than those from accredited universities. It is also stated by several authorities that where many of the faculty of an institution have degrees awarded by that institution, that is one of the warning signs of a degree mill. Lastly, the view among non-Christians and indeed much of the wider Christian community is dismissive of many facets of Southern fundamentalism, such as the KJV-only movement and young-earth creationism. Again, we have to reflect this.

Two pages on MFD

I have nominated Misplaced Pages:I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground and Misplaced Pages:Why should I care?. I'm leaving you this message, since you made both. --Rob 09:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Just zis Guy you know? 09:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

List of colleges by first letter

I was thinking about nom. ] and the other lists for AfD. What do you think? Arbusto 20:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Redundant per category, I'd say. Zero encyclopaedic content, manually maintained (therefore permanently out of date) and adds nothing to the automatically maintained categories. <cough>listcruft</cough>. Just zis Guy you know? 21:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah its up for AfD now. Arbusto 22:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Which? article

That would be good. I'm about to massively prune the criticism section of that article, and remove anything which is not a published criticism to the talk page. The citation itself is not critical, but we need to distinguish actual genuine published criticisms from *our* criticisms. email it to wikispam at <myusername> dot com Stevage 21:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Will do. I'll need to scan it to PDF or some such. Note also that the fact of the discontinuity in reporting mechanism is in the footnotes of RCGB (which is I think a cited source). For drivers overestimating their own skill you can cite "Death on the Streets" by R. Davis, PhD, ISBN 0948135468, which references the source studies which are by several independent groups including, if memory serves, Lex Motor Group and the RAC. I think the PACTS paper "ten criticisms of speed cameras and why they are flawed" is linked. TRL published a letter criticising the misrepresentation of TRL323, I'm looking for the reference, here's a commentary: . TRL421 contains around 10,000 observations and concludes that, for a givenroad type, both probability and severity of crashing increase with speed. I'll email you a copy if I have one in my library, not sure right now. Fatality rising with the forth power of speed on highways is Jocksch, I can get a full cite if needed. Good luck!

Re Melbourne, I think the first thing to do is turn it into an encyclopaedia article instead of a mirror if the Student Union newspaper! Holy vanispamcruft, Batman! I can see why you have been troubled by that one. Just zis Guy you know? 22:01, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Good work on that by way. --kingboyk 17:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Gastrich meat puppets

Besides Uncle Davy, over at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_TRACS_members there are two new keep votes from unknown users. If you look at Hayson1991 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) contributions he last editted a month ago. Those edits were his user page. Then the next edits after that were a month earlier, which were solely keep votes for LBU alumni (one example ). Upon further review this could be a sock.

The other keep vote Scifiintel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) his last edit was Jan 1, 2006. Kind of strange since this involves a suspected Jason sock? Arbusto 21:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Also the continued removal of Levicoff's quote from Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools. Arbusto 02:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

It might be useful/interesting/amusing to ask him if he would mind if the Levicoff quote was removed and all the properly sourced negative material stayed. See how he responds. JoshuaZ 02:29, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Indiana University Computer Gaming Club

Indiana University Computer Gaming Club was speedy deleted; its now been recreated again for the second time. could you delete it again? is there any way to stop it being recreated yet again? rgs, Zzzzz 17:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted it again and tagged it with {{Deletedarticle}}. I'll let the more experienced Mr JzG decide whether to protect it from recreation or not (which {{Deletedarticle}} implies). --kingboyk 17:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem was that nobody explained what was going on to the (inexperienced) editor. That will probably do. Just zis Guy you know? 17:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Justzisguy

I came across a Justzisguy (talk • contribs) on one of the other pages I follow. Separated at birth, you, or a username ridiculously close? --Christopherlin 07:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Heh! The long arm of coincidence :-)

I just came here to ask the same thing, crazy. It's not an impersonator, but you might consider noting that you aren't this user.—WAvegetarian•_{CONTRIBUTIONS}• • 20:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Since the other user doesn't edit much it might be worth asking if he would mind choosing another name? I'm not suggesting for one moment that he be strong-armed, merely asked - and if he says no feed him to the lions so be it! :) (Seriously, there can't be any harm in asking and if says no well c'est la vie). --kingboyk 20:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Alas, Douglas Adams' popularity remains high, and probably increased by the recent film. I don't see a problem particularly though ... one uses the initials and the other uses the full phrase... --Mal 21:08, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Why "alas"? Don't tell me you're not a fan? :-) (I have to admit, I've read the books at least twice - once in childhood and once in the last few years - and seen the TV series, but I have no idea who "Justzisguy" is! I was aware of course of the Adams connection but only because this Guy has mentioned it.) --kingboyk 21:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Careful, they don't have sarcasm on Betelgeuse. Just zis Guy you know? 22:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Baron Wolman

Hello,

You had originally flagged my entry for photographer Baron Wolman, Rolling Stone Magazine's Chief Photographer for the first 3 years of its existence. Any idea how long the "This article is flagged for deletion" will be on this entry? I had done this as a favor for a pretty notable photographer (a quick Google or Amazon search will verify this) and friend, and it's very embarrassing for him (and for me) to have this just hanging there. It's worse than no entry at all. If there's anything you can do in your official capacity to let the article go through, it would be great.

Thanks. Tim User: Scribblerman

Five days at most. I wouldn't worry too much, the debate is linked and it's clear that it will be kept. Incidentally, I didn't flag it originally, I found it on CAT:CSD, noted there was an assertion of notability (i.e. not a speedy candidate) so sent it to AfD instead. Just zis Guy you know? 22:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

esoteric programming languages

Hi, would you be interested in voting on this monster before I let it loose on AfD? Cheers, —Ruud 21:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow! That's a lot of work. I'd endorse nominations of all of those you've tagged, for the well-researched reasons you give. It's probably best to try to bundle some in groups, but separate the ones which might be contentious. Do you have jnothman's AfD helper? Just zis Guy you know? 22:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh my word. I've never seen anything quite like it! --kingboyk 22:28, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to keep everything in one template but make sure that people vote seperatle on each article. I've tried grouping three of four together in the past but that just resulted in people voting "Delete all expect A", "Delete all except B", .. and have the thing end in a no consensus or no result. —Ruud 22:33, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Ruud, whatever you decide there is a barnstar in it for you. That is a diligent and thoughtful piece of work. Just zis Guy you know? 22:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

He makes a good point. I've had bundled AFDs go that way too. On the other hand, with that many listings I can foresee a number of relistings due to lack of consensus... Sorry I can't be more constructive at the moment but I'm still rather taken aback by the enormity of his effort! --kingboyk 22:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Doe, John and Wiki4Christ

Well it appears Gastrich has a hand in the recent AfD circus. A user admits wiki4christ sent him to the AfD after being tagged as a puppet. So maybe it was probably Gastrich to begin with. Arbusto 23:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)