Misplaced Pages

Renaming Standard Mandarin

Hi, editor of WikiProject China, please come to the Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) and gave your input on the discussion (I suggest Modern Standard Chinese as the English name for article now titled Standard Mandarin) whether to rename the article "Standard Mandarin" to the new title "Modern Standard Chinese" or "Standard Chinese", as proposed by User:WeijiBaikeBianji. Your reply is needed.--TheLeopard (talk) 20:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Khanhoo

Hello User Colipon, I have been trying to find any historical information about the card game Khanhoo, one of China's "national" card games, but so far my efforts have been fruitless. I wonder if you could find any information and references in Chinese language once you can speak Chinese. That would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Krenakarore (talk) 11:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

List of townships of Anhui

Hi, I've begun drawing up lists but as google translate is poor I'm adding them in Chinese. Can you please help translate them? I hope eventually to have a full list of townships by province. Dr. Blofeld 16:09, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

The Epoch Times

There is currently an RfC regarding the above article on its talk page. Your input would be quite welcome. John Carter (talk) 16:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

pro japanese sockpuppet

The sockpuppetry on this article is so obvious that its not even funnyДунгане (talk) 02:39, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Kim Jong-un

Smile!

This template must be substituted, see Template:Smile for instructions SabrinaMagers talk 17:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of The Summons

The article The Summons has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

non-notable per WP:BK.

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Proposed Tibetan naming conventions

A few months ago, I posted a new proposal for Tibetan naming conventions, i.e. conventions that can be used to determine the most appropriate titles for articles related to the Tibetan region. This came out of discussions about article titles on Talk:Qamdo and Talk:Lhoka (Shannan) Prefecture. I hope that discussions on the proposal's talk page will lead to consensus in favour of making these conventions official, but so far only a few editors have left comments. If you would be interested in taking a look at the proposed naming conventions and giving your opinion, I would definitely appreciate it. Thanks — Nat Krause 22:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Kilgour-Matas report

It is unnecessary, inappropriate and against Misplaced Pages policy for people to be making personal comments in the Kilgour-Matas report AfD discussion, regardless of provocation. It is precisely because of such behaviour that Falun Gong related material is problematic. I am requesting that you remove your personal comments in the AfD discussion, and letting you know that if you do not do so that I will direct the closing admin's attention to your comments and ask that your !vote be discounted.

Editing on Misplaced Pages can be stressful at times, and this is understood. I do have sympathy with those who get frustrated. However, I would also ask that you refrain from making any personal comments in any area of Misplaced Pages in future. Focus on the content and not your assumption about the person's motives. If you feel that you are unable to conduct yourself in a reasonable manner; that editing on Misplaced Pages causes you stress; that you get enraged when other editors change your text and you are unable to politely discuss the matter or ask for assistance and would rather abuse the other editors then perhaps Misplaced Pages is not the place for you.

My suggestion is that if you feel angered by someone's behaviour, that you:

1. Give yourself a period of at least an hour before responding.
2. Write out your response, then before pressing Save page read through it carefully and edit it - removing any personal or inappropriate comments.
3. Check what you have written a second time before pressing Save page.
4. Read through what you have written after you have posted it, and remove anything that could be taken as a personal comment.
5. If you are so angry that you cannot trust yourself to do this, or you feel the behaviour needs looking at, request assistance from one of the resources listed at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution; remembering to make as neutral a statement as possible, such as: "Would someone please look at this for me." If the behaviour is not obvious and needs a lengthy explanation, the chances are you are being too sensitive.

If you are unsure about any of this, then please get in touch. SilkTork * 09:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I wasn't angry at all, at anyone. I've become quite disillusioned by the Falun Gong experience and have quit editing FLG articles. If you would like, you can delete my comment, or discount my vote. It's not much of a vote anyway. Thanks, Colipon+(Talk) 10:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Standard Mandarin

Hi. Is there any way you can gave an elaboration on why you oppose the renaming? Thanks, please state your reasons on the Talk:Standard Mandarin page.--TheLeopard (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Sociology Newsletter: III (December 2010)

ITN: Liu Zhijun

china at arab world protests

i seem to have deleted your edit in an edit conflict, but i didnt readd it back because this was cited to a RS. your summary said it was mentioned on xinhua online but that doesnt show that it was allowed for broadcast within china, the xinhua online in english is surely largely catered for the international audience.Lihaas (talk) 05:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

No, that is entirely incorrect. I have responded to this concern on the talk page of the article. Please read it. Colipon+(Talk) 16:02, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

ITN: Seiji Maehara

hanzi

can you fill in the missing hanzi here?- User_talk:Benlisquare#I_Need_Hanzi

I need it in traditional characters.

its at the second image at this link, under the xiaoerjin/arabic writing

ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ (talk) 21:22, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion would be appreciated

As a member of WikiProject Countries, I'm seeking your opinion on a possible issue identified at List of sovereign states. If you have some spare moments, please contribute a comment at the Discussion of criteria. Best regards, Nightw 04:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Africans in Guangzhou

Good article

I guess you might not want to discuss it, but I just read through your archived article of FG. It's noticably more informative and NPOV than the version that exists now. I don't have much background or interest in editing articles on that subject, but your experience is revealing. It's kinda sad: it reminds me of what I consider one of the main weaknesses of Misplaced Pages. "Oh well", eh?Ferox Seneca (talk) 02:02, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

It is not the best place to be in on this encyclopedia, for sure. I've tried to stay away from FLG as well as extremely sensitive articles dealing with Chinese propaganda, censorship, etc., anything that has been of ideological struggle, partly because the editing environment in those articles got so corrosive. FLG is especially bad, mostly because views of it are totally polarized. Fighting against a group of Falun Gong-devoted users is a full-time job, one that I was not ready to take on, so I left and let the article deteriorate, much like other senior users on that page. Almost all discussions end up evolving into personal attacks. I wrote a couple of essay-discussion pieces which you can find on my user page, if you ever wanted to kill some time.

FLG aside, I wanted to draw your attention to something that I have in the works: User:Colipon/Succession of Mao Zedong. I find the intrigue and political struggles behind the scenes to be very interesting between 1975-78, and I want to contexualize it all in this article. If you are interested your help and advice would be more than appreciated. Colipon+(Talk) 02:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

You did spark some interest, though, in re-reading one sore point of the Falun Gong debate: the issue of He Zuoxiu's relationship with Luo Gan. I tried to restart the discussion. Feel free to give your two cents. Colipon+(Talk) 03:36, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have much of a background in FLG-related research, and can't be of much help in FLG-related debates. Pretty much everything that I hear about the issue makes editing FLG-related articles seem like a horrible experience, so I am not enthusiastic about commiting myself to that research. The present articles have obviously been edited to subtly reflect a clear POV, but I am not going to be the one to correct that. One of the main problems with Misplaced Pages, I think, is that the process depends overly on mutual goodwill: it is much too easy to shut a project down just by being a very committed asshole. This site is only functioning at the level that it is now because the people who occasionally show up here in order to make things difficult and push a clear POV are not generally committed enough to stick around long-term.

My medium-term goals for Misplaced Pages right now are: finish sourcing and re-organizing Zhao Ziyang's article (I left it about half-done); maybe do one or two touch-ups on Li Peng; finish the Zhou Enlai article, then "prune" it down; and, re-write the biographies of several 20th-century warlords. I want to do a large edit of the Great Leap Forward, focusing on the politics that caused, sustained, and ended the event, and add more research to the biographies of several figures prominent in the 1950s-60s, especially Peng Dehuai and Liu Shaoqi. I want to do some copy-editing of the Tiananmen Square Protests, and I'll probably get around to making some more modest edits of the Cultural Revolution after that. I will only get to everything gradually, over the course of the next few months.

I have some background on the internal struggle to succeed Mao, but most of the sources that I have on hand for that period are only general (i.e. Spence), and I think that you will want something better. I know where I can look for some good articles. It's an interesting topic. I can add information as it comes to me, but I might not be able to get around to it very quickly.Ferox Seneca (talk) 05:27, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Falun Gong

Would welcome your input regarding the possibility of an article specifically about Falun Gong in China currently at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Religion/Falun Gong work group#Falun Gong Inside China and Falun Gong outside China. John Carter (talk) 21:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Herman Cain

Hello, Colipon. You reverted the opening of this article stating that he is a presidential candidate, on the grounds that it was redundant as we have a paragraph below. But surely one wants to start a biographical article with whatever most makes the subject noteworthy? Which, at this stage, I would judge, is overwhelmingly his political candidacy rather than his background as a business executive (or anything else). Wouldn't you agree? Nandt1 (talk) 22:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

No, I would not, but in this case it is more-or-less a stylistic choice than anything else. I guess I feel that placing his presidential candidacy first is clearly a sign of 'recentism'. The way that you framed the intro is simply a bit awkward, but I wouldn't go as far as to feel so strongly about it that I would revert you. I appreciate your efforts at the article though, I am merely more of a 'strict' follower of Wiki's conventions. It's not always bad to write "outside of the box". Colipon+(Talk) 05:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for such a courteous response. I suppose my feeing about "recentism" is that sometimes things change in a major way over a relatively short period -- becoming a serious presidential candidate being an example -- and that when this happens, I believe an online encyclopedia might as well be up to date. Good luck to you in all your future edits! Nandt1 (talk) 12:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I read the materials that you wrote and to be honest I think they are quite well-written. I didn't want to appear like I was disparaging or overly critical. Sometimes I am dismayed that new users (I assume you are a new user) tends to edit things of more immediate and recent importance, because it means that many parts of the encyclopedia that have more long-term significance don't get as much coverage as they deserve. Anyway, those are just my opinions. Happy editing, and looking forward to reading your work in the future. Colipon+(Talk) 02:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

More on "dynasty" vs. "Dynasty"

Hi Colipon. I'm contacting all the editors who have commented on whether we should un-capitalize "dynasty" in wiki titles. I have just proposed a new and simple way to make a final decision on this issue. Could you go to this new section to say whether you support my proposal? Thank you! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 01:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for commenting! Madalibi (talk) 08:22, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Criteria for disturbances articles

What is the criteria to create a riot/protest article that is notable? Most people are clearly afraid to work on this type of articles. It is very easy for something to be flagged as unnotable. After all, one or two wiki editor and up against censored news can only write so much. Benjwong (talk) 00:54, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I replied to you over at the Anshun deletion discussion. I really want you to know that this is not a personal crusade against you or the articles you have created. I share your belief that Misplaced Pages needs more individuals like yourself who will go out there and write articles about social disturbances, mass protests, human interest stories, and other sensitive topics. I have tried doing this a couple of times myself at Lou Jing, and Wenzhou train collision. In fact, I would like to cooperate with you on articles that you and I both have an interest in improving. As for the criteria, I think it has to be firmly established that such a social disturbance led to some sort of social change or significant government response, and/or major casualties to elicit a 'legacy' section or some such; i.e. it had an effect outside the confines of the event itself. Most one-off events that get spike in coverage in the media for a couple of days is thus not notable. For example, the Sichuan schools corruption scandal had the effect of changing building codes of schools all over China, so it is notable. Colipon+(Talk) 01:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

On a side note, I have always wanted to get a subscription to the South China Morning Post. It is the most informative newspaper on events in China in the English language and without the censorship of Chinese authorities. Colipon+(Talk) 01:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Well I always wonder what is considered notable? Does it require a certain number of deaths, injuries, government officials fired?? I am looking at some of these events involved with cities 10x the size of HK or macau. Yet these are described by mainland media like is no big deal. I am looking at the Zhili riot (oct 26) and Guangdong zhongshan riot (nov 13-14). Are these legitimate articles, what do you think? You can sign up for SCMP. They do a ton of translations, but they don't cover everything. Benjwong (talk) 01:19, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I just don't want to create more articles and then you flag it for deletion because you don't see it as being notable. If you don't respond in a day or two I assume you are ok with it. Benjwong (talk) 03:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I generally follow the guidelines over at WP:EVENT, and use my good judgment based on the spirit of the criteria listed there. You should give it a quick readthrough. I am going through some of the articles that you created, and I will flag ones that I do not think match the "Event" criteria. Most of them are good. Colipon+(Talk) 04:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, the Zhili riot looks more or less notable, because it is unique in the sense that it is caused by tax policy, instead of something over a corrupt official. It has coverage on AP and several other sources. Colipon+(Talk) 04:42, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I am looking at Misplaced Pages:Notability (events), people who put that page together see things from a open-western-media perspective. That simply will not work for mainland China articles. Mainland media loves to focus on "easy targets" like Li Gang and the Guo mei-mei types. It is completely ok for citizens to talk about those everyday 24x7, hence those are easily notable. But the ones with the most impact are actually the ones you flagged for deletion like 2011 Anshun incident. It affects an entire regional government. All the officials behind the incidents are protected and nameless. In reality...

Li Gang = 500 hours of media coverage

Anshun incident = 3 minutes of media coverage

Yet my judgement tells me Anshun is way more notable than Li Gang. Benjwong (talk) 01:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, I can see where you are coming from, but if Anshun is more notable than Li Gang, please write a little more about it in the article to vouch for its notability. If it affected the regional government, tell the readership how. Right now all I see is a chronology. To me, no article is better than an insufficient article that cannot speak for its own notability.

Again, Ben, a lot of the articles you write are great articles, obviously notable, and quite interesting. I do not go around flagging articles for deletion needlessly, and I empathize with your point on censorship. Generally, notable suppressed events will still find coverage at least in HK and Taiwan media, and some English-language media. I don't see this to be the case with the Anshun incident. Colipon+(Talk) 03:26, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Names of the Empress Dowager Cixi

The article Names of the Empress Dowager Cixi has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unnecessary at present to split this from Empress Dowager Cixi#Names of Empress Dowager Cixi

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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That page should be kept. If anything the Cixi page needs to reduce the name section to maybe 5 lines at most, and leave everything on this article. Benjwong (talk) 04:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I can see that could be a solution. To contest the proposed deletion in this instance, you can just remove the deletion template with an explanatory edit summary. DrKiernan (talk) 10:03, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Prince Gong

If you read the close, you would see that there were two consensus opinions. One was that the dab page should be at the primary name space and the other that the page in question be moved. If there was a better option for the dab, I did not see it in the discussion. Fell free to move it to a better disambiguation if there is one. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:21, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Lufeng

I defer to your better judgement on this move. Cheers, --Ohconfucius 01:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of I would rather cry in a BMW

The article I would rather cry in a BMW has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No indication the phrase is notable. The dating show is notable but all the references are about the show. The phrase isn't discussed independently of the show, and the incident is covered already in that article.

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Nomination of I would rather cry in a BMW for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/I would rather cry in a BMW until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

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Alternative hook suggested

Hi Coliphon, I've suggested an alternative hook on Template:Did you know nominations/June 9 Deng Speech. Please take a look and let us know what you think. Prioryman (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for June 9 Deng Speech

Wang Lijun

Hi Colipon, This is the kind of content that makes me think we need a non-biographic article to deal with this incident. Maybe "Wang Lijun incident" is more appropriate than the title I previously suggested. Do you concur? Homunculus (duihua) 00:31, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Hom, I was thinking the same thing, but then I thought if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There isn't too much more that we can add, apart from what's on the article so far, which you and OhC made sure retained a semblance of due weight by expanding on the 'public security career' sections of the page in relation to the 'US consulate' section. The Chinese wiki has a separate article already. Another thing is that, almost everything is still speculation at this stage, perhaps it's better to wait? Colipon+(Talk) 19:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

At this stage either option is fine. My thought is that, if the predictions of China analysts are correct, this things could unfold as having bigger implications for the careers of Bo, Zhou Yongkang, Wang Yang, and so on. And, if ever solid details emerge about the nature of the allegations Wang brought against Bo and his family, those allegations may eventually gain more notability. I'll mull it over more, but no guarantee I won't just pull the trigger in the next couple days.Homunculus (duihua) 20:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm actually quite excited to hear what the story behind this is. Knowing the lack of transparency with the CCP though, I don't know if we'll ever find out. God-willing, perhaps Bo himself will end up fleeing to the U.S., which would become the biggest political scandal in China since Lin Biao. I trust you'd do a good job at the article if you do start it. :) We seem to see many things eye-to-eye. Just not Falun Gong. Colipon+(Talk) 22:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

"God-willing, perhaps Bo himself will end up fleeing to the U.S...." - yes, but only if his plane were to crash half way across the pacific! The Sound and the Fury (talk) 01:08, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Regarding your elaborations on the Chongqing model and the implications for Wang Yang et al, you didn't include many sources, and the tone is pretty speculative (eg. "Politicians who may feel that Bo's efforts weaken their own political achievements by comparison include..."). Maybe you intended to fix that. Anyway, the content you wrote would have been ok several months ago, but is less appropriate in light of recent development, such as further revelations about the use of the 'strike black' campaign to take down wealthy businessmen using torture, striping them of their private wealth as a means of strengthen the statist model, etc. These things, and allegations from the likes of Zhang Mingyu, have pretty thoroughly discredited the anti-corruption campaigns, don't you think? Also, since Wen Jiabao's closing speech at the NPC specifically lauded the work of Wang Yang while criticizing the Chongqing model, I think it's safe to say that Wang no longer has cause to feel threatened by Bo's success. I don't have time to write anything now, but you might want to refer to some more recent analysis. This Newsweek article is pretty good.Homunculus (duihua) 17:00, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

That problematic paragraph was not written by me (the segments on 'making others look bad'), and I agree that in light of recent developments it should be changed to something more appropriate. I also do not have too much time but feel the article does not do justice to the stature of this man and just how important his downfall is to the political landscape. I am also torn as to whether or not to keep the chronological order of the article or to dedicate a full section to the 'Chongqing Model'. Your ideas are welcome. Thank you for your note. Colipon+(Talk) 17:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the clarification. When I have more time in the next day or two, I'll try to bring some concrete proposals to the talk page.Homunculus (duihua) 17:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

The Newsweek article was quite good. Thank you. I added some of its content onto the Bo Xilai page. Colipon+(Talk) 17:28, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

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RfC

Hey, I filed a Request for Comment on the He / Luo issue. It's probably way too long, but I don't want uninformed editors offering casual input without considering who the sources are and what they actually say. I hope that I have adequately represented the objections to inclusion as well. This seemed like the only fair (ie. random) way to solicit the opinions of fully uninvolved editors.Homunculus (duihua) 16:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Bo Xilai

Apparently someone doesn't like the linking. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Please review my article Quadrilateral Security Dialogue?

Hi Colipon, I'm trying to find somebody working on Wikiproject China (like you) who would be willing to re-rate my article Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. You can make comments on this review page. Any help would be much appreciated! best, -Darouet (talk) 00:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary! Will work along the lines you've suggested. All best, -Darouet (talk) 21:12, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Just began looking at it. Will be happy to contribute more! Thanks for the suggestion (and for your help with QSD). -Darouet (talk) 13:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Mali edits

Hi there Colipon. Looking at the fast approaching edits on Mali-related articles, I noticed this edit by you. Could you explain to me precisely what you meant by using "regime" with caution, why we have to do this and where it states that this is so. There is a reason I ask and I'll explain it to you after your reply. Thanks. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I replied on that talk page. Thanks for pointing this out. It is quite a relevant discussion. Colipon+(Talk) 02:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

This is a mistake, right?

The Bo Xilai page says that Bo failed to get elected to the Central Committee in 2003. That has to be a mistake, right?

On another note, I was just reviewing this edit . I had started preparing something similar offline. My thought is to break out distinct sections on his tenure as mayor of Dalian, followed by a section on the 15th Party Congress (with would include content similar to what you wrote), then governor of Liaoning, followed by 16th party congress, and so on. Any thoughts? Homunculus (duihua) 19:50, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

That is a good catch. He definitely got elected to the CC in 2003 - so it would seem his 'failed election' actually took place sometime in 1997-8... Generally as a mayor of a large city like Dalian one would be on the CC ex officio. Bo's omission from the CC is extremely significant. I believe what actually happened was that upon his installation as Mayor (or governor), he was to be 'alternated' into the CC, i.e, as an 'additional' member. These alternates need to go through an election process among existing CC members, and I believe that is where he failed the vote. I wish sources were a little clearer on this. Colipon+(Talk) 21:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

His failed nomination in 1997 was a pretty big deal; the family ran a national publicity campaign touting his achievement, and he wasn't even chosen as part of the Liaoning delegation. Maybe tomorrow I'll have finished pulling something together on it. As to 2003, I was also referring to the year. Don't these selections take place during the party congress (in this case, the 16th congress held in 2002)? Homunculus (duihua) 22:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, let me know if you find anything. WRT the idea of separating out the Congresses as their own sections, I'm not sure if I like this idea. Because aside from the political jockeying there's little else that can act as standalone content for those sections. I would be much more comfortable trying to integrate those into their adjacent sections. Colipon+(Talk) 01:28, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at what I've done. I turned "Work in Liaoning" into three sections: Mayor of Dalian, 15th Party Congress, and Governor of Liaoning. The section on the 15th Party Congress a bit long. If you think it's overkill, you're welcome to rein it in. I'm inclined to think of these things as the single-party system equivalent of an election campaign, and to end, I think they're notable enough. I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong. Regarding the 16th party congress, I haven't put anything on the page yet, but there might be some notable stuff there as well; Bo's name was considered alongside Li and Xi's to lead the fifth generation of leaders. Granted, he was never a very serious contender, but was probably third in line...Homunculus (duihua) 14:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite good. And very interesting. Li Cheng is one of my favourite China analysts. He has the background and isn't so clouded with his own perceptions of how the system 'should' be - unlike Willy Lam. Bruce Gilley is another expert on this topic. Maybe see if he has anything interesting on the subject (although some of his analysis is regrettably inaccurate). For the 17th congress, I think there was some serious jockeying for Bo to go to Chongqing. He was initially very reluctant and apparently protested to the Org. department, saying that it was a demotion and an insult. It took him 15 days from the close of the congress to his first day on the job as party secretary in Chongqing. Perhaps that's when he was devising his proto-"Chongqing model". It'd be great if we could find some background on the 16th. Colipon+(Talk) 15:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Funny, about Cheng Li. I've found him, like nearly all the top DC China scholars (Shambaugh, Lampton, Bader, Pei, etc.), to be extremely politic; their organizations and careers rely on maintaining optimal access to the Chinese leadership. I don't think that means he lacks aspirations for political reform, though. Anyways, Gilley and Andy Nathan have written a bit on Bo in the 16th party congress. I'll try to find more.Homunculus (duihua) 15:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

In the spirit of candor and cooperation

Colipon, I know I haven't stated it clearly yet, but I do hope that we can work together now and in the future. There are not many editors on this encyclopedia who are knowledgeable and active on topics related to Chinese politics, and I prefer to be on cooperative (if not friendly) terms with those who are. So, in the spirit of cooperation, I am going to be candid, and I hope that you will reciprocate.

I don't appreciate the tone you use to describe my editing when you disagree with it (eg. "alarming," "concerning," etc. There was also your recent comment, where you—perhaps unwittingly—implied that I am not a "rational" editor.) If I were slightly more thin-skinned or conflict averse, I might interpret these repeated insinuations as a form of intimidation. I hold myself to high standards, and while I am by no means above reproach, I make every attempt to be judicious in my judgement, scrupulous in adhering to policies, and welcoming of dissenting views and opinions. If you have a problem with something I have written, you can plainly describe the content issues as you see them, and I will seek to address it. If you have a question about me or my position on a topic, I would appreciate if you ask me directly, rather than making indirect insinuations about my motivations. For professional reasons I need to guard my privacy, so I don't disclose more than I wish, but I do not lie. I hope that's reasonable.

I also want to discuss with you the He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan issue. I'm interested in talking with you here because, honestly, I feel I can speak more freely. Not about Misplaced Pages policies and such, but just about our views on the subject. This is an issue you've been battling for a long time, and it seems like an inordinate amount of effort for such a small point. Could you explain why you see this as so important? If this conversation is agreeable to you, I will share my thoughts in turn.Homunculus (duihua) 22:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)