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::The point should be straight forward obvious to neutral contributors. There is increasing attempt by polish nationalists to remove everything that is Lithuanian. Just if anybody look few edits before, there was exactly the same attempt and the provided source perfectly illustrates that English sources identifies this person as Lithuanian as well. ] (]) 10:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
::The point should be straight forward obvious to neutral contributors. There is increasing attempt by polish nationalists to remove everything that is Lithuanian. Just if anybody look few edits before, there was exactly the same attempt and the provided source perfectly illustrates that English sources identifies this person as Lithuanian as well. ] (]) 10:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Polish nationalists removing everything that is lithuanian? . ] (]) 14:43, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Polish nationalists removing everything that is lithuanian? . ] (]) 14:43, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
:::"Polish nationalists blah blah blah". Really it gets tiresome. Especially when the so-called "Polish nationalists" are putting into articles that the person was "Polish-Lithuanian" while Lithuanian editors try to remove all references to Poland or Poles from an article(s) about people who very clearly have/had strong connections to Poland (language, self-identification, culture, etc.). I know it's a failure to assume good faith - which isn't required in cases like this - but this kind of nonsense has been going on for ever and any attempt at compromise (like describing such persons as "Polish-Lithuanian" despite the fact that most sources refer to them as Poles from Lithuania) seems to only embolden the *real* nationalist edit warriors, like M.K above.
:::The provided source illustrates that she was from Lithuania, a Pole from Lithuania, or more precisely a Polish-Lithuanian as the term was used at the time she was alive and as it is used in sources today - hence the link to the proper article. She certainly wasn't a "modern Pole" or a "modern Lithuanian" which is what M.K is trying to link to.] 15:57, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
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Witkacy: actually I'm not Zivinbudas, and I really sugest to call all the places in english, in en.wikipedia.org, but if you think that Wilno is more popular then Vilnius in present maps, so let it be that way. (Tautvydas)
Witkacy: Can you give any reasonable/logical explanation why in english wikipedia Vilnius should be in polish name, not in english?
Firstly, as I mentioned before I'm not Zivi, secondly not sure about this, at least in lithuanian language, languages is lithuanian, polish, english and countries is Lithuania, Poland, England, but maybe in english it's different. Anyway, I don't see answer to my question. (Tautvydas)
In terms of a compromise, why not say "Born in Vilnius (now called Vilno)" or whichever way round it is? It would be improper for me having protected the page to edit the article now (other than to put the {{protected}} notice on it), so I will leave this just as a start to the discussion. Thryduulf22:40, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Because Vilnius was always Vilnius it didn't change the name from Wilno to Vilnius or from Vilnius to Wilno. In terms of compromise we could say "Born in Vilnius (in Polish Wilno)", but it's kind of strange, as it is english wikipedia, and you can always find out how Vilnius is called in Polish by visiting Vilnius page, but in terms of compromise we could do this.
There was a very nice discusion over similar topic (I think Polich-German naming) and I think they have reached agreement about that:
In English WP english naming (englisized current names) should be used for all cities regardless historical period (eg. Vilnius will always be Vilnius (not Wilno or Vilna), and Gdansk (not Danzig), and Kaunas (not Kowno) and etc.)
The same rule applies to all namings, ex. rivers, lakes, regions, mountains and etc.
Namings of other languages and/or periods can be (and must be, in case of dispute) mentioned in main describing article
I removed the anachronism that was there before, but mentioned the modern name of that city. Does it settle the dispute?
BTW, in case a non-informed person wondered what's the problem about: prior to 1945 the city was predominantly Polish and was called Wilno by the locals. After that the Poles were expelled and their place was taken by Lithuanians who moved to what they considered their legitimate capital. The problem with the name itself is that until 1945 it was called Wilno and then the name was changed to Lithuanian spelling. To add flavour and more confusion, before 1919 the Lithuanian spelling of that name was Wilnius, but then the grammar was changed to resemble less the Polish language... Halibutt18:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to ask why is some Lithuanian name of that person mentioned here? Sure, she might be called Plateryte in Lithuanian, Platerová in Czech, Плятэр in Russian and perhaps a zillion other names, but that doesn't mean we should include all of those in the header. Or do we? //Halibutt13:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly, it appears that she did not sign her name Plater in the March 25, 1831, letter included in the article. Anyway, she was born in Lithuania, died in Lithuania, and is buried in Lithuania. And her military activities all took place in Lithuania, not a zillion other places. Perhaps that is why "some Lithuanian name" is mentioned here. Dr. Dan14:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
No, Dr. Dan, she was born in Russia, lived in Russia, and died in Russia. Lithuania didn't exist, Lithuanians themselves used the Polish language. --81.7.98.25011:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
What was mother language of Emilia Plater? Lithuanian? Did anybody from relatives called her as Pliateryte? Did Emilia Platerowna ever called herself as Emilija Pliaterytė? Was Liksna manor where she grew up in Lithuania? Now 200 years after appears Lithuanian name - this looks like retrospective falsification. Well, this name could be used within Lithuanian WP, cause in lithuanian all names are lithuanised. Even David Copperfield in lithuanian is called as lt:Deividas Koperfildas, but such name would be a nonsence if used in English WP. 81.7.98.25011:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
To Dr.Dan Actually, she used her polish name in the March 25, 1831, letter included in the article. You can read there 'Platerówna' - in polish language and grammar those times ending '-ówna' (Plater'-ówna') signifies that the woman was unmerried (maiden).77.112.41.127 (talk) 17:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Poznaniak
Don't need to source the same thing three times
I don't know what the point of this edit/edit summary is except possibly to change the links under the guise of adding redundant refs. The "Polish-Lithuanian" is already reffed twice. No point in having a third ref. And the proper link is obviously to Polish-Lithuanian (adjective) since that is the description used in sources.VolunteerMarek06:24, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
The point should be straight forward obvious to neutral contributors. There is increasing attempt by polish nationalists to remove everything that is Lithuanian. Just if anybody look few edits before, there was exactly the same attempt and the provided source perfectly illustrates that English sources identifies this person as Lithuanian as well. M.K. (talk) 10:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
"Polish nationalists blah blah blah". Really it gets tiresome. Especially when the so-called "Polish nationalists" are putting into articles that the person was "Polish-Lithuanian" while Lithuanian editors try to remove all references to Poland or Poles from an article(s) about people who very clearly have/had strong connections to Poland (language, self-identification, culture, etc.). I know it's a failure to assume good faith - which isn't required in cases like this - but this kind of nonsense has been going on for ever and any attempt at compromise (like describing such persons as "Polish-Lithuanian" despite the fact that most sources refer to them as Poles from Lithuania) seems to only embolden the *real* nationalist edit warriors, like M.K above.
The provided source illustrates that she was from Lithuania, a Pole from Lithuania, or more precisely a Polish-Lithuanian as the term was used at the time she was alive and as it is used in sources today - hence the link to the proper article. She certainly wasn't a "modern Pole" or a "modern Lithuanian" which is what M.K is trying to link to.VolunteerMarek15:57, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: criterion not met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
