Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:04, 3 June 2012

Quote of the day Like a dose of belladonna, I could cry but I don't wanna, and the dream's lost on me. Blondie, The Dream's Lost on Me

Apologies

It appears that I inadvertently made two spelling corrections using AWB. While the majority of the corrections identified with AWB were made using a standard browser, these two edits are, nonetheless, in breach of the Arbcom ruling, therefore it is inevitable that I shall be banned from the project.

I apologise to ArbCom for that, and more particularly to those who have supported me over the last two months, for blowing it through such a stupid error. Rich Farmbrough, 01:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Very sweet swansong, going down for two spelling mistakes at the hands of those who elevate the letter of the law to a deity. +1

WP:DAR Deify all rules.Penyulap ☏ 01:46, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)

• If they do ban you for that, it will be proof of the absurdity of it all. Kinda like blocking someone who is vandalizing their own userpage. --Hammersoft (talk) 02:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

As I just stated on the Arbcom page it was only a matter of time before they found a reason to block you, this just presented the opportunity for them to do what they have been trying, and unable to do, since the case opened. I am a little curious about how AWB even allowed you to edit since your not on the AWB checkwiki page and why the Arbs felt it necessary to check your edits with the checkwiki tool unless they had some reason to do so other than sheer curiousity. That seems like a blatant abuse of the tool to me unless they had some evidence to suspect you were socking or violating your ban before they did so and from you edit history I can't see anything that would clearly indicate that. Kumioko (talk) 02:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

It is trivial to mod AWB, this was something that I tested before stating it at the ArbCase. Courcelles was querying a cut-and-paste error - asking me what tools I was using, so AGK decided to do a check. I both agree and disagree that this is abuse of the tool. Right now it is perfectly legitimate, but the way I see it a case should have to be made - that is not the current situation though. And of course I have nothing to hide, so I'm not concerned. AGK sent me the line from the log, so I have clarity about that at least, though there are several matters which still confuse me. I would share the line form the log here, but it says nothing I have not already covered, and could impact on the efficacy of checkuser in the future. Rich Farmbrough, 03:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

(Per /Editnotice) Is my following/understanding correct? (a) that the trigger edits in question are + and that (b) in addition (you are concerned about) exposing the inner working of CheckUser? —Sladen (talk) 21:46, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Although archiving Elen's talk page for her was mentioned somewhere, I thought I was doing her a favour, and she hasn't said otherwise. As to AGK not getting round to answering all his candidacy questions, that has not been mentioned. I only brought it up in an attempt to show that we all have time constraints. The two content edits you mention have not been drawn to my attention, the ones that I assume are at fault (one I have been told about the other I am extrapolating) are the only ones marked "minor" in the last 15 days that are not moves or adding a link. Rich Farmbrough, 21:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

So 2x 'Verterbrate'→'Vertebrate' in & (one definite, one inferred)? —Sladen (talk) 00:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Rich Farmbrough, 00:31, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

• I said before after this case closed, Rich would have to be perfect. All too prophetic. So his AWB somehow was able to make two edits, edits which should have been impossible. He made a mistake that he didn't think it was even possible to make because it should have been impossible. Kumioko, you raise an excellent point. Someone, most likely one of the arbs, went on a fishing expedition to see if Rich was doing something nefarious. This appears to be blatant abuse of the checkuser right. Misplaced Pages:CHECKUSER#Complaints_and_misuse. Rich, I think it's time you approached the Foundation about this. ArbCom is on a witch hunt. --Hammersoft (talk) 02:50, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I did think it was possible, I just thought I was being careful enough not to do it. See above for why it was only half a fishing expedition. I have no objection to being check-usered in this scenario. In fact I virtually asked to be checkusered when Courcelles raised his issues. In other cases I have been, at least basically, at least in principle, right. But in this case I am not, and I hold myself to higher standards than that. Rich Farmbrough, 03:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

• Rich, if one or more arbcom members were using checkuser on fishing expeditions in an attempt to find evidence with which to hang you, that is a serious breach of trust on their part, and a serious breach of privacy. The issue of whether or not you were using automation has never been sorted out, and is an absolute pale shadow to the checkuser abuse that may have occurred. If they used checkuser prior to having any evidence with which to suspect you were using automation (however the heck they define it, and they never have), their breach of the community's trust is immense. I am impressed that you want to hold yourself to a higher standard. But, your case is about you. It's not about the entire community. If they abused checkuser, it is extremely serious and effects the entire community. --Hammersoft (talk) 03:07, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

• Hi Rich, came here because of your post on my talkpage. Do I gather AGK has now directed you to whatever he picked up? I'm not going to say you're an idjit - I think you've figured this out already. Making these edits seems to have become compulsive. Basically, any editing that looked automated was going to be looked at some more - I've looked at your edits and you're still resolutely fannying with whitespace and capitalisations and doing it at some speed. I think that was bound to cause problems, without finding out that you're running some hacked form of AWB by the back door. Given the concerns about enforcement, and that you put your word on the line over this, I hope you escape a ban (because I don't think you do this stuff mendaciously), but .... I don't know what to suggest here. Elen of the Roads (talk) 09:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
  • No he hasn't. He has identified one edit, and made lots of implications. I am a little more satisfied having had time to think things through. I will email you. Rich Farmbrough, 11:32, 1 June 2012 (UTC).
    

Responded. Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Complaint to the Audit Subcommittee

Per the wording of the motion, it appears ArbCom may have been using checkuser to observe Rich's editing behaviors over "recent days", whereas the two edits they are concerned about apparently happened today. I believe one or more members of ArbCom has exceeded their remit in the use of the checkuser tool. I think it's time for the Audit Subcommittee to be contacted, specifically to ask when checkuser has been used in regards to Rich's account, and who performed the checkuser. Instructions are located at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Audit_Subcommittee#Procedure. --Hammersoft (talk) 02:56, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I already enquired of the AUSC, whether I had been checkusered, as much to see how the system worked as anything. AGK replied on their behalf that I had never been checkusered. (Basically I trust AGK in this respect - but here is an example of why separation of functions would be good.) So I don't think there is an issue here. Rich Farmbrough, 03:03, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

I have seen the checkuser logs and the tool is far from perfect and not very easy to read or use. With that said I think all of us know that it was only a matter of time anyway. There are still a lot of aspects about the case that agitate and worry me but some are already being addressed in Arbcom motions. I hope you consider working in commons or other areas besides Enwiki where the Arbcom ban/decision does not have authority. Kumioko (talk) 03:07, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I advised AGK that there are obvious improvements needed to the tool, which I won't mention here. I have some WMF projects lined up that have been put on hold due partly to en:WP work and partly to the drama. They might get attended to. And a lot of off-Wiki stuff too. Rich Farmbrough, 03:14, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

• Ah right, the watchers watch the watchers. I would submit a new request to someone who is not currently sitting on ArbCom. --Hammersoft (talk) 03:08, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

breadcrumbs are such an important ingredient in some recipes. Penyulap ☏ 03:41, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Interesting how far removed from the origin the fix has travelled and so fast. A gazillion edits, and if one percent were erroneous, yeah, 10,000 problems right there. So wiping out the gazillion, to silence the complaints isn't enough, it's the edit that cannot be seen in public, the edit that is secret and can't be found, the one hidden in the forbidden place, THAT is the edit that in the end becomes the crux, better to crush out the last beat of the cyborg's heart to protect the eyes of the innocent, like on that edit.

I shall turn off the light, close the window, bar the door, retreat to my closet, cover myself in a blanket, turn around and then and only then shall I make a gesture with my hand in the general direction of this authority, that shall be the measure of my defiance today. Penyulap ☏ 08:59, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)

That is a piece of nonsense, you do realise that. Rich is rather in the situation of the person topic banned from - say the Israel/Palestine topic - who is found to be back making edits to Six-day War. At that point it doesn't matter that his edits were only minor tweaking. He's banned from editing that article. Rich had the whole of the encyclopaedia to edit in - why on earth was he continuing to fiddle with whitespace and capitalisation, things that were bound to draw attention to him, and why on earth did he use that hacked AWB installation. It surely hasn't become sentient and turned itself on. Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:23, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Because there was an error "Verterbrate" instead of "Vertebrate" in a bunch of turtle articles and AWB is the efficient way to find them. Rich Farmbrough, 11:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Using the search function of Misplaced Pages works quite well, I just tested it and rapidly corrected four instances of "verterbrate" without any automation at all, neither to find them nor to correct them. AWB doeesn't yield any other results in this case. Fram (talk) 11:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense is trying to explain the innocent prisoner's dilemma or anything else in a system where mob mentality is the epitome of government. Penyulap ☏ 11:39, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Anyone wanting to search for "Verterbrate" now will get the same four hits. Given that I did not want to edit all the articles I had already fixed, that would have not been a good choice of tools. Using AWB properly will avoid that problem. Rich Farmbrough, 12:10, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

(edit conflict) Elen, the cyborg is Rich, not the bot. the path that he took has changed him in a manner you can't appreciate because you have to experience it to understand, the reflexes, the computational power, the extension of one's consciousness into the code, don't you see wikipedia when you blink or sleep ? can you switch it out of your consciousness any more than you can stop yourself from picturing a pink elephant right now ? That sucker just pops right in there and you can't help it, it's the manner of the mind. Wrapped into the editing is not something you can just stop seeing when you blink, not when he sits at that same familiar computer. You figure he should just walk off to cure the problem of the last 0.001 %, leave the computer at someone else's house. That is the only way you know, I know, he knows, but the problem is not the wrong sentence, the problem is not the automated ban rather than a full block, the problem is everyone failing to accept that last 0.0001 %, to overlook and accept it and just move on to some more important task. Who is obsessed here, and who doesn't recognise their obsessive behaviour and the detriment it has to the project ? (I'm not having a go, I'm asking everyone to question themselves and ask is this the best we can do to exert self-control ? relax for the good of the project and relax for our own good)

In the long term, is applying the full efforts of those involved going to have any positive impact on the project, or is such a narrow focus and misapplication of resource going to put everyone at the mercy of the real trends. The problems hinted at in those graphs on this page's archives, wikipedia is changing, turning, and it's not going in a good direction. If we all do our part and uphold the letter of the law, if we all keep doing our best as we have done in the past, as surely as the sun rises wikipedia will set. When things are so clearly heading down the wrong path, as wikipedia is, then clearly continuing in the same direction is fundamentally the wrong direction.

Anyhow, just shake off this idea that anything is amiss and return to the job you were doing before, we all have to uphold the letter of the law, otherwise the future won't unfold as it is destined to do. Penyulap ☏ 12:21, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Except that someone banned from those areas for disruption has probably caused harm to Misplaced Pages. Other than that, the analogy holds. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 16:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

False analogy. Shoplifting is a crime, and murder is a crime. Other than the fact that a law has been broken, they don't equate. --Ohconfucius 16:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

That and the punishment for breaking said crime is not the same. A notion which seems to be lost on Arbcom these days. One punishment fits all. Kumioko (talk) 17:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to hear one arbcom member tell how Misplaced Pages is going to be better without Rich. Something tells me we're in for a long wait....William 13:40, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

pour encourager les autres maybe... Rich Farmbrough, 16:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

William, I think it's the smell. You know like sharks and a drop of blood 50 miles away or whatever it is. The smell of automation you see, even if you can't see it, they can. I should work on smells, at the moment there is only the smell of doom that I could spread to mask the smell of automation, I need to make something else, something almost socially acceptable. Can't think of anything right now. Penyulap ☏ 20:34, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Do you think that one day disruption could be qualified like this "disruption is something that regular editors are able to detect" Penyulap ☏ 22:29, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Some tasks for Perl

Do you have any thoughts or comments on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Birds#Semi-automated_tasks? Snowman (talk) 18:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Replied there. Rich Farmbrough, 19:10, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Thank you. Can you tell me a bit more about BRFA and where to find it? Snowman (talk) 11:32, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:BRFA Basically you fill in a form, and unless dramah ensues, you simply show consensus for your request, and get the go-ahead to trial it. After successful trials you get authorisation. What could possibly go wrong? Rich Farmbrough, 16:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

Amazing award

		All Around Amazing Barnstar
		I can't thank you enough for all the turtle content and improvements you've been making the last few days. If I was adding the synonyms myself it would of taken me months. Exceptionally great work Richard! Thank you! Regards, SunCreator 19:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! It would be quicker but I have one hand and both feet immobilised. Rich Farmbrough, 22:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Cricket

Rich - still trying to create separate page for ODI and T20I cricket. Don't know how this is done but won't give up yet as important reference. Hambantota hosted first T20I today and Compton made another ton (and 1,000 runs a day too late). Regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatriciaSR (talk • contribs) 20:08, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Y Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 21:48, 1 June 2012 (UTC).
Rich Farmbrough, 21:48, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Category:Smile Records albums

Category:Smile Records albums, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Follow on

Greetings Rich Farmbrough, I noticed your comment where you expressed a possible interest in improving Misplaced Pages coverage of articles related to record production. It would be great having your collaborative input on how best to achieve this goal. Review links associated with WP:RECP and P:RECP, and know that you are considerably welcome to help forge the path forward. My76Strat (talk) 09:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It is a distinct pleasure to welcome you to this project. I agree wholeheartedly with your stated motivations and stand ready to collaborate unto this needed end. Be bold with your ideas, for I am keen. Best regards - My76Strat (talk) 18:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

List of Twenty20 International cricket grounds

Did you create List of Twenty20 International cricket grounds deliberately or was it a mistake, as there are no content other than a restate of the article title? -- KTC (talk) 10:05, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It was created for User talk:PatriciaSR, who being a none auto-confirmed new could not create a new page herself. Regards, SunCreator 11:24, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Uncategorized articles

Just a reminder that the monthly maintenance categories for uncategorized articles are titled in the format Category:Uncategorized from June 2012, not Category:Category needed from June 2012 — so if you want to get ahead of the bots by creating it before they do, you'd probably be better off creating the version that's actually going to have articles placed in it by the uncat template. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 16:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - I was just filling in the (apparent) gaps. It's a shame that that anomaly survived, but there were people (usually just one) opposing everything I did by the time it was on the schedule for tidying. Rich Farmbrough, 16:45, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

A Barnstar I made for you (with help from my bot)

		The tireless cybernetic contributor Barnstar
		I wanted to acknowledge the sacrifice made and the changes that so much editing brings to the way you think and dream. When I play the computer games too much, then it shades everything else I do, so after a million edits I can only imaging what differences there must be from people who do just a little bit of editing. I wonder if it is like Neo in the Matrix, where vision merges into code and everything normal dissappears, maybe it doesn't go that far, but I prefer to think it can, life is more interesting that way. Penyulap ☏04:19, 26 Dec 2024 (UTC)_

1. That is rather amazing.
2. As far as I know I don't dream WP, I don't see it when I close my eyes. That latter has happened when I have done something intensively for 48 hours.
3. The integration is simply a matter of experience. Of course, my typing skills are beginning to fail, and my reactions slowing, but most things I have already seen and done many times.
4. Everything normal does disappear, just the same as reading a book, watching a film, or doing a hard problem. Someone I know called it "all interrupts disabled".
5. Thanks for the barnstar.

Rich Farmbrough, 22:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

Thank you, you're welcome, oh, and don't forget Jaguar, I just posted to his page. Penyulap ☏ 23:34, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Another e-mail

Hi Rich. You have another e-mail. I understand you don't often use your Misplaced Pages mail account, which is why I'm leaving another courtesy note, but if you don't require one in future I will of course comply. AGK 23:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I missed the word "mail" there "I understand you don't often use your Misplaced Pages account" ... My WP mail account is my mail account. You will get me faster on my talk page than by email generally. Rich Farmbrough, 23:52, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

The way forward ...

Hi Rich: I know AGK has been conversing with you via email. We're trying to fashion terms for something short of a long term site ban. While this is not (yet) a formal offer, we need to know if this type of thing would be acceptable to you, obviously, if not, then we're back where we started. This is the outline of what several members of the Committee were discussing:

A) 30 day block from Misplaced Pages for violating the restriction on automated editing

B) The ban on using automation will be maintained. (and we strongly suggest you rip out your monobook.js to prevent inadvertent violations of this restriction)

C) Just to make things clear: this ban explicitly includes preparing edits using anything similar to AWB and copying them into a normal browser. Anything more than what someone new to Misplaced Pages would get when they hit the edit button and type in the changes in the window that popped up (ie, COMPLETELY manual) will be considered automation. I'd suggest since most AWB-style scripts or the like do Capitalization/spelling/white space automatically, that you refrain from this kind of edit (so as to not give your edits the appearance of automatic editing.

D) The Committee will have checkusers regularly checking up on you via the use of the Checkuser tool to ensure that you are complying with these terms. if they find you have violated these terms they will report so to us publicly (without revealing details publicly that would violate the privacy policy)

E) If you violate this restriction again, you will likely be banned indefinitely with no right of appeal for one year after the commencement of the ban.

F) The restriction on automation will remain until lifted by the Committee.. since six months puts us RIGHT in the election period, and the transition that any election brings, let's say the first appeal on loosening the restriction on automation will be 15 January, 2013.

If the Committee can come to a consensus to extend you this kind of offer in lieu of a full site ban, would you accept this? SirFozzie (talk) 00:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, indeed I had already said as much. Please note I have blanked my monobook.js page some time since. Rich Farmbrough, 01:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC).

Ok, good. I'll report to the Committee, and you should be hearing from us, one way or the other. SirFozzie (talk) 01:04, 3 June 2012 (UTC)