Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 11:54, 10 June 2012

Articles which make "allegations" make bad encyclopedia articles, especially when any sort of POV can be attached thereto. I suggest that articles subject to WP:BLP in any manner which make allegations be strongly constrained.

Some of my essays:

WP:False consensus

WP:KNOW

WP:Advocacy articles

WP:PIECE

WP:Defend to the Death

WP:Midden

WP:Baby and Bathwater

WP:Wikifurniture

WP:Contentious

WP:Sex, Religion and Politics

WP:Editorially involved

WP:Mutual admiration society

Happy Collect's Day!

User:Collect has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Collect's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Collect! Peace, Rlevse 00:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

And sincere best regards and thanks to you! Collect (talk) 00:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Samuel Dickstein (congressman)

Like I said, pathetic. Certainly compared to your having conniption fits about using Mike Rokyo -- a man whose name is practically synonymous with the phrase "Chicago journalist" -- as a reliable source about some actual Chicago journalism, as you did on some recent topic. In other words, your idea of what constitutes a "strong source" seems entirely dependent on your personal prejudices.

But you've reverted three different editors in as many days: try that stunt again and you'll get a chance to explain yourself at the 3RR noticeboard, a place you seem to have no compunction whatsoever about running to when it suits you. --Calton | Talk 18:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I trust you know the NYT s a "reliable source" as are the others. As for making threats - that sort of behaviour is sophomoric at best. Collect (talk) 21:46, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Business Plot aka Wall Street Putsch

According to historian, Sally Denton's book, "The Plots Against the President" ... she titles the event the "Wall Street Putsch" ...

see last paragraph at http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2012/01/18/plots-against-president-sally-denton/RrGQUNfHlYtAgCG59e60eK/story.html

possible to revise heading, redirect and restore edit?

68.101.217.238 (talk) 22:39, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Nope - you need more than one person using a term to do that - what you have is what she calls it. It was not apparently a widespresd term at the time according to the sources used. Collect (talk) 00:35, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

note to an editor:

There are a great many people on Misplaced Pages (some with way-out views as to what they "know") - in order to make your own voice heard, it is best to sometimes hold your tongue (what an image!). You are free to have opinions about others, but expressing those opinions is of no avail to you at all. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

WhiteWriter 17:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate your support...

HI! I appreciate your support on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Masonic Lodges of North Carolina. I think the "not notable nazis" will eventually win the argument, though. I am sick and tired of spendind tons of time AND MONEY to research stuff not wikipedia only to have it deleted. That guy Tyrenon has got get a life. I looked at this contribution history and over 66% of his contributions to wikipedia over the last two and a half years have been regarding deleting other people's work while he has created nothing. Check out what I posted on his talk page: User_talk:Tyrenon#I_hereby_nominate_you_for.... Thanks again. Eric Cable  |  Talk  16:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

LOL! Yep - there are some who do that - but add the "history of Civil War" stuff to the article and rename to History of etc., with the list being the bottom part <g>. It is not the list which is notable in itself - but the history is irrefutably notable. Cheers. Collect (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Editors rejecting BLP considerations

Hi Collect. I know you are a very considerate NPOV editor in regard to content additions in regard to BLP articles. Recently I have started to notice quite a few editors opposing any BLP considerations. Policy is quite strong from the foundation and Arbcom in regard to BLP and if this is not filtering through it may be necessary to return to Arbcom for further clarification - as your involved in many of the discussions, would you please log and keep an eye out for users that repeatedly oppose BLP considerations and for discussions that from your neutral BLP considerate position resulted in a POV support consensus. Youreallycan 20:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

User:Will Beback has joined in and User:Coffeepusher has also reverted - YGM - Youreallycan 21:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Is there a problem? Does a sentence on his most famous law case actually violate BLP?   Will Beback  talk  21:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

You are well aware of the good faith NPOV concerns that your desired addition as focusing unduly on one project in four years work is in violation of WP:UNDUE - User:Coffeepusher has now two reverts and is edit warring the disputed content into the BLP. Youreallycan 21:30, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Huh? Working on Misplaced Pages for four years is UNDUE? That's a very strange theory. I am well aware that you don't like me and that you and Collect follow me around Misplaced Pages opposing perfectly good edits.   Will Beback  talk  21:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Not you - read before you comment please. You see your own bigotry . I have no idea about you at all - No one is following you around, you attract investigation through your contributions - Youreallycan 21:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Now you're accusing me of bigotry?! Whew.   Will Beback  talk  21:52, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

From an NPOV position, I am disturbed by your contributions and have already pointed that out to you - I urge you moving forward take a more BLP considerate NPOV position through your contributions - Youreallycan 22:10, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I honor and obey all of the Misplaced Pages policies. Please don't call me a bigot. I consider that to be a personal attack.   Will Beback  talk  22:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I am disturbed by your contributions and have already pointed that out to you - I urge you moving forward take a more BLP considerate NPOV position through your contributions. - Your wiki lawyering claims of attack are just a meaningless distraction from reality. Youreallycan 22:28, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

My position on strong observance of the letter and spirit of WP:BLP should be pretty much clear. Collect (talk) 00:48, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Request for attention to an RS/N item

Dear Collect. As I value your opinion highly, I would value your attention and contribution to this RS/N discussion of the potential reliability or unreliability of using professional oral history. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I responded - but it is not a really simple question, to be sure. Collect (talk) 02:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. I'm not sure if I hold a position on the issue, and I hold strong sourcing views. It is an interesting problem to think about and debate towards solution, as it has impacts on cultures that produce oral knowledge rather than textual knowledge. Fifelfoo (talk) 02:48, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Did you look at using Wikiversity for an article on this material? I now it is pretty much a backwater, to be sure, but it allows you to make a free-form lecture on a topic without much interference, and especially without folks seeking to make your premises into the opposite of where you started (which is an endemic problem on essays at Misplaced Pages, alas). Collect (talk) 12:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Rename at Campaign for "santorum" neologism

Hello, since you recently participated in an RfC at Campaign for "santorum" neologism, I thought you might be interested in this proposal for renaming the article, or perhaps another of the rename proposals on the page. Best, B——C_ritical 22:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Accusations

You accused me for violating WP:CANVASS, but I notified only users who participated in discussion at WP:AN/EW. For example, I notified user AndyTheGrump, and he is against topic ban. Can you withdraw your accusations? Thanks.--В и к и T 01:28, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Did you notify everyone who was involved in the prior discussiona and no one else? In ote, for example, that you did not notify the admins involved ... best practice for noticeboard discussions is to notify only the person being complained about. Meanwhile shouting "homophobia" as people who are actually quite "gay sympathetic" is not going to get you very far at all. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Care to fix

...this? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Baby and Bathwater

Hi. You've written some good essays. Can you edit this sentence:

The are which may be the most problematic, however, is use of "reliable sources" for biographies of living people, and WP:BLP sets a higher standard on sources than other policies set.

"The are which may be the most problematic"— I don't understand what you intended this to say. Thanks Wbm1058 (talk) 22:17, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! My mind goes faster than my fingers do <g>. I hope you like the fix. Collect (talk) 00:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Dowd vs Gingrich C

Hi, Collect. You said somewhere that opinion pieces are not a reliable source for facts in a BLP. I took a quick glance at WP:BLP and I couldn't find that in so many words. Can you point me to the right spot? Thanks! --Kenatipo 02:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The precept is that opinion articles are citable as opinions only. , , etc. Many times in fact on RS/N and BLP/N noticeboards. Collect (talk) 03:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. --Kenatipo 04:12, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

re: peer review

Thanks for the comment. In case you're not familiar with the process, WP:PR clearly states: "Misplaced Pages's peer review process exposes articles to closer scrutiny from a broader group of editors, and is intended for high-quality articles that have already undergone extensive work, often as a way of preparing a featured article candidate" (emphasis mine). From my POV, your nomination statement simply lists what you perceive is wrong with the article. I neither agree nor disagree with your assertions, and I'm completely uninvolved. However, that is not what PR is for. If you pinpoint weaknesses in the article, and someone disagrees with you, you do not need a review; you need dispute resolution. Review statements generally say something along the lines of "I'm looking for feedback on how to improve this article so it can become GA/A/FA" -- not, "these specific things are wrong with this article." One is seeking suggestions for improvement, the other is seeking backup. Do you see the difference? According to you, you already know what's wrong; you don't need a review. Also if it weren't for the dispute, I would simply reply: WP:SOFIXIT.

I hope this makes sense. Anyway, I closed the page because it has been open for almost two weeks, and has yet to receive a proper review, nor any clarification on your part. The review is still technically closed, despite your reversion of the template change, btw. María (yllosubmarine) 02:36, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Centpacrr had averred that it was a "high quality article." In point of fact, it is not. I request you reopen with the comment "How can this article be improved to meet GA standards." Cheers. Otherwise, "peer review" is a tad useless if all that is needed is for the edit warrior who has added reams of purple prose to an extant reasonable article to say "but there is nothing more than a content issue here." Outside opinions thus showing him where his view has problems is far better than trying for other processes, IMO. Collect (talk) 02:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

No, I won't. Articles are usually nominated for PR by those with an invested interest in the subject. I commented first as a potential reviewer, but I closed the nomination because anyone can do so per the instructions if there has been an extended period of inactivity. PR is not the correct venue for your dispute, especially when you plan on utilizing a misleading nomination statement. Your goal isn't GA, so why lie? That's very bad form, and it sets an equally bad precedent. Again, what you want -- nay, need -- is dispute resolution. You can seek outside views from the noticeboard, or simply ask for a third opinion. María (yllosubmarine) 03:11, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Try WP:AGF -- the goal was to get a disinterested person who knows what makes a good article to review the article. It is not DR as I truly do not give a damn about how bad an article one editor is creating - the goal, as I understand it, on Misplaced Pages is to produce good articles! Note that I specifically did 'not see PR as an "adversarial proceeding" as I am not an "adversary" of Centpacrr, but just doing my damndest to improve Misplaced Pages. Cheers - but I find your position to be a teensy bit off-putting. Collect (talk) 12:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I will be closing Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Charles Lindbergh/archive2 per Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Request removal policy. The peer review should be closed as it is about a content dispute: To keep down the size of the PR page, every editor is invited to close inactive discussions. Please only do so with the following kinds of requests: 1. Requests that aren't appropriate for peer review, for instance requests for help in ... resolving an edit war, or detecting a copyvio. These should be removed promptly in the interest of the requester, since he/she is unlikely to get adequate response to them at Peer Review. Ruhrfisch _><>° 14:26, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Um -- did you read what I posted? This is not a "content dispute" it is an issue about whether an article with florid prose and copyright violations can meet "good article" criteria. Alas - it seems those at Peer Review dod not wish to actually review such problems which are not "content disputes" at all. Cheers. Collect (talk) 03:10, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I amde some comments on the article at Talk:Charles Lindbergh Ruhrfisch _><>° 14:20, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Glad to see that others see some of the same faults I saw. Collect (talk) 15:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Thomas Jefferson

Sorry, was not trying to be condescending. We had a very short version before, but some editors have wanted many additions. Thanks for your comment. Parkwells (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

In the main bio, a short version is best. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Award

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Though I don't remember having the pleasure of editing together on an article, I have seen your posts on many noticeboards and community pages. Hence this barnstar to recognize your valuable contributions to the Misplaced Pages community. Keep up the good work. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 03:02, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

stalker

why do you stalk me? Are you, like, interested in me? Cuz u and I both know you are, my friend... If there's a page for recovering wikistalkers, I definitely will sign you up. I want you to get help. Just know that I do care about your health, my friend. We'll get through this...--Screwball23 talk 02:57, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Huh? I do not stalk you - I have over 2300 pages watchlisted and you are about the very least of the editors I would remotely consider stalking! Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure buddy (sigh). So anyway, Mr. Stalker, I see you have a sudden interest in Bob Turner (politician). Tell me what will make you happy so you don't go crying to an admin...btw, the district was eliminated, that is factual and that is nonnegotiable. The fact that Weiner resigned for a sexting scandal is also fact, and personal views aside, I can't let you change that either. The fact that he was part of a conservative activist group is completely fine, and I see no reason for repeated deletion on that. The magazine Salon did argue that his win was "unremarkable" in their view. An argument is built on facts, my friend, and for them, the presidential polling trends was their case-in-point.--Screwball23 talk 23:33, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Um -- he has been on my watchlist since the Weiner election --- though I admit you seem to "own" the article by edit count. By the way, when seats are "eliminated" one does not call every seat "eliminated" at all -- generally the elimination is achieved by minor increases in geographic size of all the remaining districts. I think you ought to recognize that this is how politicians view the redistricting -- it is not "elimination" of specific districts. Cheers -- but your edits on the BLP are pretty horrendous. Collect (talk) 01:38, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Robin Ficker

You've previously edited the Robin Ficker article. Please take a look at the current discussion and contribute to it if you have an opinion. Thanks. -- Pemilligan (talk) 04:09, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom comment

Hi Collect, I saw your comment about Misplaced Pages ought never be a game in which people count the numbers of editors blocked or banned on each side, seeking to get more of "them" blocked than of "us.". Do you mind explaining what this means? The only relevant facts here are that (1) there was never genuine evidence given for Cla's ban in the first place; (2) he complied with the terms of his ban far more sincerely than, say, WMC; (3) WMC was unbanned despite battlefield conduct in his ban appeal; ergo (4) it is a huge, cynical double standard for anyone to argue that WMC is allowed to be unbanned but not Cla. I recognise that you opposed WMC's ban appeal. I don't understand why you now recommend ArbCom apply a double standard. Alex Harvey (talk) 01:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I had not thought I was applying a "double standard" but that I was strongly supporting the loosening of the reins entirely on him. I regard my comment as a bit of a truism. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

As I noted, you opposed WMC's appeal so I am not saying you are applying a double standard. However, if ArbCom makes any decision other than to fully remove Cla's ban, as they did for WMC, how can that not be a huge double standard? Alex Harvey (talk) 01:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I suspect ArbCom has many times been inconsistent inthe past - making a point of it, however, is quite unlikely to impress them here. Collect (talk) 11:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you are probably right. They can make up the rules as they go along. Why should they give a damn if I point out some blatant hypocrisy? With no shareholders to report to, no KPIs to meet, no financial targets, no objectives of any kind, identities hidden by pseudonyms, and far removed from the public gaze. They ban and they unban and have nothing much to consider beyond their own convenience. What a sad situation. Alex Harvey (talk) 14:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Not "hypocrisy" but the fact that many decisions are arrived at after "horse-trading" and compromising - when given any sufficiently different information with a significantly different committee, all bets are off -- win, place or show. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The system is deeply flawed. We seem to accept that the Committee isn't going to bother looking at the evidence, and isn't going to be bound by any actual rules or precedents, and if the outcome happens to be horrifically wrong, who cares? It is to me astonishing that such a barbaric system can pop into existence in the 21st century. I watched GoRight driven from the community in a manner similar to the mob in Salem. We've gone back about 3,000 years in our history to a situation similar to what must have existed before the Romans invented law. It may not be "hypocrisy"; it may just be "negligence". What is clear to me, though, is that this system continues to exist because the public, and Misplaced Pages's donors, just don't know about it. It has to stop. Alex Harvey (talk) 18:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

BLP question

In reference to this diff which part of WP:BLP says that? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Try If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out

I consider "unintelligible" to be a very weak source.

Try also: Be wary of sources that use weasel words and that attribute material to anonymous sources which is the present case

See also BLP/N discussions at where the anonymous rumour was deemed unusable in a BLP. similar discussion result. ditto.

Anonymous sources are not usable in making any contentious claims in a BLP. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I take it that this is the paragraph you are objecting to? If so, I'm fairly certain that multiple reliable third-party sources can be found for most, if not all, of that paragraph. No offense, but I'll defer reading those discussions as they are quite lengthy. As for anonymous sources, the only thing I can find in BLP is WP:BLPGOSSIP and it doesn't say that they are not usable. It says to be wary of them (i.e. use caution) and it's about gossip. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:11, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The only actual RS fact is that the transcript says "unintelligible." Misplaced Pages and specifically WP:BLP prefers facts. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:16, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by that. That some people believe they hear "coon", "punks", "clueless" or "course" are facts. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:52, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

When it comes to dubiously relevant negative material about Martin, you've advocated its inclusion where Martin's family had confirmed the material (). In this case, Zimmerman's close friend confirmed that he heard the word "goon", or possibly "coon":

As far as, I mean as far as George being racist, I didn't take it as a racist term. I heard 'goon' and talking to my teenage daughter, apparently goon is a term of endearment in high school these days... He wasn't talking to Trayvon when that comment was made. He was speaking a generality in that this suspicious person was someone who he—lumped in—as always getting away—goon, coon. I mean, the bottom line, he thought he needed to keep an eye on this individual for whatever reason.

(Source, ABC News). Maybe you can help me understand why you consider the material about Martin is a BLP slam-dunk, but the negative material about Zimmerman a BLP violation? MastCell  00:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Factual material provided by the family and printed in reliable sources is not "dubiously relevant negative material" and is not sourced to anonymous sources. And again -- the transcript says unintelligible. To me unintelligible means, of all things UNINTELLIGIBLE. Is that too hard to grasp? Collect (talk) 00:33, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Where do "anonymous sources" come in? Zimmerman's close friend - who is decidedly not anonymous - seemed to feel the word was reasonably intelligible, at least enough so to narrow it down to two possibilities. And this was printed in reliable sources. I understand that the person who transcribed the call rendered the word as "unintelligible". But I don't understand why you think we're therefore forbidden to discuss any other reliably sourced views on the tape. And I continue to see a bit of a double standard here, but that's a separate matter. MastCell  04:42, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Where no one knows what the word was - not even his friend asserted he was certain - then ascribing such contentious claims as saying he said "coon" in a BLP-compliant article is clearly a no-go. Cheers. And the editorial comment only said some (anonymous) people said they thought they heard the word -- every play "telephone" as a child? Collect (talk) 12:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Radical Right

I do not understand your long campaign against this article. Although you and I may not accept the descriptions offered by Daniel Bell, Seymour Martin Lipset, Peter Viereck, Richard Hofstader and more recently Sara Diamond, Chip Berlet and many others, our role is not to judge or censor what they say, merely to report it. As a wise man once said, "We report, you decide". TFD (talk) 23:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

No such campaign on my part -- other than to respect Misplaced Pages policies. Such as accurately stating what the cited sourse states. Cheers. Now scram if you wish to keep this civil <g>. Collect (talk) 23:14, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

1RR violations at Pro-life feminism

Please revert yourself at Pro-life feminism; the article falls under 1RR abortion topic arbitration. Binksternet (talk) 18:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

No notice on page or talk page seems obvious; Cheers - but I tried to self-revert. Warn Rosce for sure as he absolutely has gone over any lines. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:27, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I've struck my archiving of the AN discussion and filed a request for clarification with ArbCom here. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:51, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Looks like we finally got an answer here -- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Request for clarification: Abortion (1RR_query). --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Discussion of WikiProject Paid Advocacy Watch

Hello, I wanted you to be aware that I am initiating a discussion regarding the proposed deletion of the Wikiproject for Paid Advocacy Watch/Editor Registry. You can view this discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Paid_Advocacy_Watch/Editor_Registry#Unethical_indictments 71.237.2.24 (talk) 09:34, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

RE Dickens and racism article

Hello - I noticed this contribution by you on the ANI page, and I wasn't sure how to interpret your remarks about Dickens' editors. Were you perhaps referring, at least in part, to the article on Dickens and racism? If so, I for one would be interested to read any observations you may have about the article itself on its Talk page. In particular, leaving aside the personal issues currently under discussion at ANI, do you think that the page regards a legitimate, encyclopedic topic broadly amenable to NPOV treatment? If so, what areas/issues do you feel are most in need of editorial attention, especially as regards NPOV? Thank you. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Personal disclaimer: Since I was a proponent of creating a subarticle of this sort in order to free up development of the main Dickens page, I find it difficult to be impartial here. My continued involvement stems from a feeling that it would be wrong for me just to walk away now that the page has been created. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I am glad it is not a BLP as otherwise it would run severely afoul of that policy <g>. It contains an unhealthy amount of hindsight, opinion, conjecture, surmise and more. Collect (talk) 12:51, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Thank you. I was just adding, "I think your contributions, however limited, could help the page eventually find broader consensus." I still think that. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:56, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Polandball at AE

In the AE discussion I compared the attitude to a lynch mob. You said I shouldn't attack the ArbCom like that. I was not attacking the ArbCom – or at least I did not know I was. WP:AE is not a forum for arbitrators. Requests are handled by administrators. In fact even I have closed a WP:AE case!

I have not really read the administrator comments. Are you saying the arbitrators have taken over the case? If so, I do not think AE is he proper place to handle it. The formal issue at AE is IBAN. It seems that admins and arbs really want to talk about Polandball and hate speech. If that is the case, then the proper thing to do would be to open an arbitration case: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Polandball. This would be an interesting case, as for once the arbitrators would have to rule on content, not technicalities of behavior. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:30, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I noted that it was less than sublime that Russavia posted the same questions to each arbitrator. That is not, in my experience, the best way to win Arbitrators over to one's position. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

NORN

I did not say Courser "must mean the Tea Party movement is "radical right"". Could you please strike your comment at WP:NORN#Radical Right. TFD (talk) 19:37, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

You use the "fact" that Courser used books which have "Radical Right" in their titles to aver that the TPM, since Courser used those books, is "Radical Right." That is nicely clear. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:40, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I wrote that Courser says, "Recent scholarship tends to place the Tea Party Movement within the tradition of the radical right". TFD (talk) 19:52, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I have never stated that Courser is associating the TPM with the radical right. Could you please strike out that comment. TFD (talk) 19:56, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

And then immediately adds the equivalent of "It ain't." BTW, you elide a goodly part of the quote from Courser:

What little recent academic analyses the Tea Party has received thus far has attempted to place it within the context of past scholarly work on conservative social movements. The comparison is not flattering, as social movements that originate from the right have almost invariably been portrayed as intolerant, resentful, ignorant, and paranoid.

This characterization does not bear up under scrutiny and falsely places the Tea Party in the context of an academic tradition of marginalizing populist and conservative social movements as illiberal, intolerant, and radical. On the whole, Tea Party movement is neither racist nor radical, and its political demands fit within the mainstream of American politics.

Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:58, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Since an editor said, "you struggle to find even one reference", I showed that there are sources that describe the TPM as radical right. However it is preferable to rely on one good source that explains it has been so described then to search for examples. The third source is by two professors at the London School of Economics and is not a political manifesto. (Note that you defended using a similar source at "far left politics".) None of these sources are "scholarly indictments of the Tea Party", merely sources that use the term radical right to describe the Tea Party.

However you have not addressed the question at the noticeboard: Is it synthesis to conclude that Courser is referring to the writing by Bell, Lipset and Hofstadter when he says "past scholarly work"?

TFD (talk) 02:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Your use of clearly polemical sources indicates that you have not found a scholarly source calling the Tea Party movement "radical right." Cheers. Collect (talk) 10:50, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Notice

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Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Collect. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Misplaced Pages, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click HERE to participate. Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang 11:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for stepping in there. That was a good result. I think my problem was getting across to him how we use sources. I'll work on a form of words that conveys that more clearly for future such encounters. Thanks again. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 07:20, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Pink slime edit summary

I liked what you did here and I noticed your edit summary. I wondered if you were acquainted with an essay I wrote? If not it might interest you. --John (talk) 16:44, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

I find "however" to be rarely used properly used on Misplaced Pages, and never so needed that removal harms an article <g>. Nice essay - are you going to expand on it for projectspace? Collect (talk) 16:58, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Maybe one of these days; it might be better placed somewhere in the MoS, if ever I get around to it. --John (talk) 17:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Newspeak and the essay

Prego. As a relative newbie, I find the status of Misplaced Pages "Essays" confusing. I often see them cited as if they had quasi-guideline status, and I'm sure I've done something similar itself, at least in reference to WP:CREEP. So I find your attempt to clarify the issue intriguing. Personally, I find newspeak tendencies irritating and worrying both on Misplaced Pages and elsewhere. Best, —MistyMorn (talk) 21:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Essays have no special status - though ones which get routinely cited get to be well-known. I try to make essays based either on ArbCom statements, or on famous quotes, trusting that few will try to assert that the essay is not useful <g>. And feel free to add to any essays I have written. Collect (talk) 21:07, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Not your work, but one which has attracted my attention is WP:Don't assume. I've sometimes toyed with the idea of recasting it a bit less aggressively perhaps. But then again... —MistyMorn (talk) 21:23, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Touré

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Holy moly

See this, Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Festes. Drmies (talk) 20:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Not sure they are socks - but the IPs, Ocelot and Festes seem suspicious as a possible group. Wiki, Blue and Charles I dunno about. Wish they were more obvious - but maybe we will get a CU on the lot. Collect (talk) 20:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

There is so much overlap, I can't see how they wouldn't at least be meats. Bologna, not prosciutto. Drmies (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

More likely "Albanska Sujuk" (sp). Collect (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Sergey Zagraevsky

Sorry but I can not agree with your actions concerning this page. The painter's gallery is very useful, and as a compromise I've left only the books which have ISBN. And the lost files with his pictures will be undeleted soon because there was the author's permission. --Ozolina (talk) 21:26, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The pictures have been undeleted! --Ozolina (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

"Author's permission"? Nope - that is not how WP:BLP works. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

There was the author's registered permission # 2009062810038434. The situation was described and solved here: . And I think that it is a good compromise to leave only books with ISBN. --Ozolina (talk) 22:02, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Again - WP:BLP is what governs on Misplaced Pages - not an "author's permission". And Commons is not Misplaced Pages. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:04, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

You've not understood me and are spoiling the article, because the gallery and list of books are necessary. It looks like vandalism. --Ozolina (talk) 06:56, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your good note on my edit on Page Ranina Reddy. Vithurgod (talk) 13:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Ozonlina is going on putting the paintigs of this hobby painter in WP. There is much disussion about this COI in russian and German WP as well, french WP deleted him. User Ozonlina spams many WPs. --Robertsan (talk) 14:21, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Please note that there is no citation for being an artist but the own website! The two catalogues with his work have no ISBN number and cannot be found in any library. The art crtics are taken from the own website. There is no important exhibition, no museum, no famous collection. They want to push him as an artist in any possible way.--Robertsan (talk) 14:27, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Joe the Plumber edits

Hi there. I don't understand the objection to the Joe the Plumber edits that you undid. All of the information is accurate, verified, referenced and comes from reliable sources. My understanding is that wikipedia is supposed to be encyclopedic. That means edits should be based on fact.

The entry was clearly counterfactual before I edited. Your undo contributes to maintaining that counterfactuality. Please give a better explanation rather than initiating an edit war. Best wishes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.36.165 (talk) 18:41, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

(ec)Read the policies. Heck -- why not go to WP:RS/N and show the folks there the edit you desire and see what their unbiassed input is. Or at WP:BLP/N which is basically applicable here as well. Collect (talk) 18:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Come on, buddy. Seriously? Initiating an edit war? Yeah right. Your explanation was clearly given in the edit summary. Calabe1992 18:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on User talk:Draeco/Dubin

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False report of Canvassing

Could you please stop canvassing for your WQA, which is in violation of behavioral guidelines. TFD (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Notification of people mentioned is required - did you miss that on the noticeboard? Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:25, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Sock record

Not a record when compared to folks like Mikemikev, but as it pertains to a specific Afd, possibly: but compare to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Haeretica Pravitas/Archive, which came out of two similar AfDs, one for the theory and one for the person, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Superbradyon (2nd nomination) and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Luis González-Mestres. Ah, happy days. Poor Kevin really got his feet put to the fire after proposing the person. Drmies (talk) 17:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Most socks I ever caught on CompuServe in one forum was about 15 names for one person. But we had tools far different from CU in those days. Collect (talk) 17:17, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, with this type of sock it's usually over quickly as soon as the AfDs close. Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Knowitallfortoday/Archive wasn't a lot of fun to deal with, but the edits were so obvious (as with our current case) that DUCK suffices. Our present case involves a bunch of different IPs as well (and I'm not good at those Who-is searches), but I think that the party will be over as soon as the AfDs close, which hopefully will take place this millennium. Hey, did I already say "thanks for your help" anywhere? Thanks for your help! Drmies (talk) 17:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

You are assuredly welcome. Collect (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

So Protonism came and went, then came again briefly and went again. Collect, I'd hate to have you as an enemy! Drmies (talk) 02:37, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

While I have some "unfriendly stalkers" <g>, I consider no one an "enemy." And most people as friends. Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:47, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

How intersting

That you are at 3rr also! Hipocrite (talk) 13:28, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Really? I think you need to count better than that!

Your reverts on Lyndon Larouche are at 11:10, 13:14 and 13:20 today. Mine are at 12:44 and 13:12. Cheers - but my math professors at MIT taught that 2 != 3. I guess you likely did not have them. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:32, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

How interesting. I wonder, when was the article last tagged with {{pov}}? I assumed you were having a hard time with 2 and 3 also. Hipocrite (talk) 13:34, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

And note that the edit summary for your tag editon was clearly aimed as an "undoing" of my simple non-POV edit. Note that adding tags and removing tags has generally been counted in 3RR cases. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:53, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Adding tags that haven't been on the article in months, perhaps years, have not. But if you want to make aggressive edits and then revert repeatedly to defend them without substantial talk page engagement in an article covered by sanctions, please feel free to continue. Hipocrite (talk) 13:55, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Wohoo! Removing "cult" is an "aggressive edit"? Sheesh! Collect (talk) 14:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

No, this is. Hipocrite (talk) 14:05, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

YCSI

I had no idea that YCSI was a texting acronym when I wrote it, and certainly did not intend that meaning. Hipocrite (talk) 16:06, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Sure. Sure. Sure. Collect (talk) 16:07, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Right-wing socialism

The best way to ensure tha the article survives AfD is to ensure that the article describes a specific topic. Saying for example that "rws is a term that describes Hitler's brownshirts or Tony Blair's New Labour" probably is not a good idea at this point in time. TFD (talk) 03:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Sure. Collect (talk) 08:11, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mike Daisey

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Sergey Zagraevsky

Hi I am Robertsan from German WP. There is a one purpose account who tries to push this man as a famous painter. There are no sources for that, but the own website. I therefore will take away the section about art, because this is original research only. I am sure the Ozonlia account will not be amused. Regards --Robertsan (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Shooting of Trayvon Martin

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Please comment on Talk:Public image of Mitt Romney

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Please comment on Talk:Deaths in 2012

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Mervyn King

What is the issue? Since when did the Financial Times become an unacceptable source? Every single thing on that BLP has a source for it, a mainstream source. The section I am posting in is called Criticism, do you want me to post praise in it? King himself accepts some of the criticism the article mentions whilst rejecting other parts of it (as I was about to add before being so needlessly interrupted). Please cut out your whitewashing activities. ~ Iloveandrea (talk) 15:36, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I am having real difficulty getting anything out of you other than the fact that you are hurt and upset that there are people in the world who are critical of 'Sir' Mervyn. Any response, or shall I assume your reversions are vandalism and undo you? ~ Iloveandrea (talk) 15:51, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Try discussing on the article talk page and I urgently suggest you not edit further today. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:28, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Ur user name featured in two Yahoo News graphic about the various GOPers' Wikiblps...

LINK: the one for Santorum and the one for Mitt. Hey, you think their semi-realtime, "live" graphics, set up to automatically register a click as a one or a batch of new edits get made? suppose not. Probably....--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 10:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

No idea -- sort of a "fun" article, but it does not remove the "vandalism reverts" from the counts. If they made t more accurate as to how major the edits were, it might be a good tool. Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:23, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of vegans

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Barnstar

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Dear Collect, thank you for the kindness that you've shown towards me recently. I do not believe that we've ever interacted on Misplaced Pages before but nevertheless, you stood up for me and the positive contributions that I've made here at Misplaced Pages. I really appreciate this act of charity and hope that God will bless you and your family in abundance. The image in this barnstar has a smile in it, which you brought to my face today. I hope that this barnstar will do the same to you. Your new friend, Anupam 17:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Donald Tsang

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Michael A. Bellesiles

Your recent edits to this article are not helpful. Some editors, including me, are trying to find a balance between including the 16K+ of stuff from the book article, and failing to mention Bellesiles' fraudulent scholarship in writing the book. Others seem to be trying to sabotage that effort, or are at least avoiding rational discussion of it. Lou Sander (talk) 20:37, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Note my position that the section should be a summary of the article, and not the entire article. And note that, to that end, I presented a limited summary thereof. As called for by policy and guidelines. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:39, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Not your best work, IMHO. Lou Sander (talk) 21:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

But far superior to adding an entire subarticle into the article, for sure. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:03, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Lou, please point out any recent versions of the article which "fail to mention Bellesiles' fraudulent scholarship". As best I can tell, all recent revisions prominently mention the Armed America incident. All editors seem to be trying to find the balance you're describing, and it's not helpful to pretend otherwise for rhetorical purposes. MastCell  22:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Lou won't be with us anymore... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:18, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

C'est dommage. Collect (talk) 11:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth

You make good points, I follow your reasoning, and I think you're smart. I appreciate your contribution to the discussion.Jasonnewyork (talk) 19:42, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you - Kind words work better than almost anything else. Collect (talk) 21:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Leslie Daigle

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College cheerleaders

You think this category is trivial? Hard to believe. I've nominated it for deletion. No outcome would surprise me, though.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

<g> And it has now been repopulated with a slew of Republican politicians -- do ya think that is a random occurrence? Collect (talk) 18:31, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't want to comment. Too many conflicting stereotypes. I had no idea it was a "manly" (the cited source in the Bush article) pursuit. I'm gonna have to reevaluate my whole view of cheerleading.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:39, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The WP guideline of making categories says that the category must be a rational linkage <g> which I consider a very weak point for this category utterly. Collect (talk) 18:41, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Agree with your concerns about Jon Wiener

Wondering what you would like to do here and how I might help.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - all that really is needed is a person to check out his edits and to suggest that his "there is no problem" position might not work in his favour. It is far from the worst puff pastry of an article on WP, but I think having a second voice in his ear might work wonders (fingers crossed). Collect (talk) 01:34, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Tell you what. I'll put it on my to-do list; what I was thinking about doing was revamping the article, doing newspaper/media sweeps with his name (probably law-related publications), possibly rewriting the lede, cutting out dubious sources, and posting it into a sandbox for your perusal first; right now I am doing other stuff, so it may be a few days, okay?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 01:46, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

No need to get my approval <g> the aim is to make good articles without having either puffery nor denigration of people. Collect (talk) 01:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Corrections Corporation of America

The prison riot yesterday didn't say anything about CCA? That's a bit like contending the sinking of the Titanic didn't have anything to do with the White Star Line or an iceberg or the Atlantic Ocean. Activist (talk) 18:47, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

The only connection was running the place - which is rather insufficient for any implication about a corporation which was not in any way implicated otherwise in the "riot." The White Star management, on the other hand, was implicated in the poor decisions about the Titanic - so thanks for showing where you are coming from. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:15, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

No implication was intended and no implication was made. The edit simply noted a workplace death under exotic circumstances (riot) of one of the company's employees. This is an established and undisputed fact. The edit made no judgment on the competency or efficacy of CCA in operating this facility. BlueSalix (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

CCA has had riots in its institutions on a regular basis. There have been reports regarding them made by contracting and hosting states and monitors. These included, for instance, reports on riots in May and July and September of 2004 in Watonga, Oklahoma, Crowley County, Colorado and Beattyville, Kentucky, that excoriated the corporation and mentioned similar specific shortcomings that existed in all three prisons. There was another riot in Tallahatchie, Mississippi the day after the 2004 Crowley riot but I don't know if the sending state, Colorado, webposted a report. The Crowley report was almost 200 pages. The extensive Watonga report was posted by the sending state, Arizona. Hawai'i has written numerous reports about riots and other incidents in CCA's Arizona prisons. I'm posting this to the Noticeboard. I'm not able to notify user BlueSalix as he or she doesn't have a User page. If you would like to add material on the riots I've cited, they and many others should be fairly easy to find on the Internet. Activist (talk) 03:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20120522/NEWS/205220320/Former-prison-worker-recalls-unsafe-situation Activist (talk) 15:11, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Collect; Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Corrections Corporation of America has been opened. Activist claims that the above posting consists of notifying you of a Dispute that has been Administratively opened.--209.6.69.227 (talk) 14:25, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Your deletion of another user's edits

With this edit you deleted the previous edits of another user (Unscintillating): Please could you clean up this error, undoubtedly accidental? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 09:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Third time it has happened to me - and about fifteeneth time I have seen it - likely due to server miscomunications for "edit conflict". Thanks. Collect (talk) 12:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Invitation

Out of a sheer penchant for drivel, I've penned an essay on BLP noteworthiness. I don't know what I expect from having done so. But I thought I'd share it with you because you're a regular BLP contributor, and I value your understanding of current policy and guidelines, as well as you opinion of if and how they might be improved. If you don't have time or interest, no hard feelings. In fact, if you think I'm being wrongheaded, please leave a comment to that effect. All the best. JFHJr (㊟) 10:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Nick Layton

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A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	Thanks for being on the case, Collect. Drmies (talk) 13:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fæ opened

An arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fæ. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fæ/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 12, 2012, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fæ/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Lord Roem (talk) 01:32, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Roman Polanski

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Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion

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DDR / SED / Terminology

I hope my contributions helped your thinking on these issues. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:54, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber

Dear moderators,

I am writing you in response to the warning you have posted on my talk page dated May 29, 2012, and regarding my contributions to the article "Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber".

Kindly note the following:

• As I have read many articles in the media on Mr. Al Jaber, I was struck by the unrepresentative content on the individual in Misplaced Pages and on the differences in content between the German and English versions.
• I have bought the book entitled “Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber - High Quality content by Misplaced Pages articles” by Frederic P Miller, Agnes F Vandome and John McBrewster – Published by Alphascript publishing, 2011 (ISBN: 6135590138, EAN: 9786135590135, http://www.valorebooks.com/textbooks/mohamed-bin-issa-al-jaber/9786135590135 - Price: Euro 35), and I was also struck by its lack of accurate information.
• Accordingly, I have completed the article with sourced and reliable information that refer to the professional track record of this public international figure that is Mr. Al Jaber.
• And as you can see when referring to the sources, the media coverage on the individual is sometimes negative.
• Please also note that I have kept and added positive references regarding Mr. Al Jaber’s track record (such as Forbes mentions, philanthropy, education, awards, etc.).
• Furthermore, please note that I have also referred to the Misplaced Pages page in German that is very well sourced.

Awaiting for you kind reply,

Best regards,

--Oil.sharon (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages articles are never "reliable sources" for Misplaced Pages articles. Collect (talk) 14:35, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Collect. Yep that's about a comment I made on his talkpage. I'll reply to him there later today saying that & the rest. Cheers, --92.6.202.54 (talk) 15:27, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I apologize for having brought you into the stupid mess at WQA

I just want to apologize for bringing you to WQA. I thought the WQA volunteers could have helped you guys find a way to have more peaceful disagreements. But the incompetent mudslinging there by Writegeist has ruined it. I wanted to help you guys out, my apologies for failing. I will try to see if the other users there can give you tips to avoid confrontations.--R-41 (talk) 23:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

If you wish more info, drop me an email. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

re this edit

I really agree with you that national identity should be part of this rule. I'm a little worried though that the more we add, the harder it will be to get consensus on this rule change...... Anyway, let's leave it in for now and possibly remove it if it looks like it will cause a great deal of contention. NickCT (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me -- considering the "Israeli/Palestinian" mess for some articles - let the person determine what they are. But let's see how others feel. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:16, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Chip Rogers

Not sure why you consider my edit a revert back to a version marked as a WP:BLP violation. I added extensive sourcing and also added in Rogers' defense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techfan1972 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

It is a matter that the sources used do not meet the requirements of WP:BLP. I suggest you read WP:BLP to acquaint yourself with the policies and requirements of Misplaced Pages when dealing with biographies of living persons. Meanwhile, please be well advised that continued insertion of material conttrary to policy is heavily frowned upon and may lead to administrative action regarding your account. Collect (talk) 22:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Please enlighten me as to what you believe does not meet the sourcing requirements of WP:BLP. To refresh your memory, the guidelines state that edits "must be explicitly attributed to a reliable, published source." You clearly must not be from Georgia, because the main story referred to in the edits was published on Atlanta Unfilitered, a highly respected news website that is run by a longtime editor of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (the biggest newspaper in the state). Furthermore, the article contains primary source documents, including video and court records. And in case you still weren't convinced, the story was picked up and verified by Atlanta's ABC affiliate, Atlanta's Fox affiliate, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the Associated Press, and several local papers. Rogers responded directly to the stories from each of these outlets, including Atlanta Unfiltered. So to summarize, please explain to me how you think that the edits in question may be good enough information for literally every reputable news outlet in the state of Georgia, but not Misplaced Pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techfan1972 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

When you read WP:BLP and WP:RS please note that Misplaced Pages does not use or allow "primary sources and court records." On addition, blogs are also specifically disallowed unless under the direct control of a reliable source known for fact-checking. Lastly - Misplaced Pages is not the place to do campaign work during political silly season. Cheers. Collect (talk) 00:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Then just use the ABC, FOX, AJC, and AP reports. What makes you the judge and jury of what news articles get to be kept out of an article because they aren't flattering for the subject. If multiple TV stations and newspapers are reporting it, it's news, end of story. You're the one acting political. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techfan1972 (talk • contribs) 02:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It is not up to me to "fix" edits which violate Misplaced Pages policies. And Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper - it uses material of encyclopedic value with claims backed by reliable sources as stated in policy. Cheers. Collect (talk) 10:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

You lose. Blow me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techfan1972 (talk • contribs) 22:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Report that diff you showed me to IRWolfie-'s administrator noticeboard report

Reporting that to me isn't going to help with anything, I advice you to place it on IRWolfie-'s administrator noticeboard report. It demonstrates Writegeist's completely uncivil, cynical, and disruptive behaviour, and that he holds the WQA volunteer IRWolfie- in contempt and that he holds the whole WQA in contempt as a "dramaboard", odd that he volunteers for something he hates.--R-41 (talk) 23:04, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I know - see also WP:Mutual admiration society if you wish my "take" on it. At some point, it will be a teensy bit obvious to a lot of others, I hope. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:07, 1 June 2012 (UTC) w -

Please comment on Talk:Kirk Cameron

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Rue Cardinale

It may be worth noting that Mathsci is framing his content dispute with Nyttend in terms of removing material by a banned editor. In fact, Mathsci has been edit warring to remove well-sourced material by User:Silver starfish, who has not been shown to be banned. In fact, no checkuser was run on Silver Starfish because do not see enough evidence to connect them to Echigo Mole. Rather revealingly, that comment goes onto say Those accounts did not come up in my check of Rita Mordio or Thrapostulator. So in fact, Silver Starfish and the rest of the Guozbongleur group are not Echigo Mole. In other words, the weight of evidence was against Mathsci's assertion before the checkuser was run, and afterwards it was even more, even conclusively, so. Undeterred by these results, which he is now attempting to deny , Mathsci is determined to have Silver Starfish declared a banned user in order to win his content disupte with User:Nyttend at Rue Cardinale (which he is now disrupting AN with). 94.197.236.96 (talk) 11:25, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I note that you may be acting for a banned user, and assign your position the weight it merits only. Collect (talk) 12:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

murder of lin jun

hello. the retitling discussion seems to have been archived. presumably the discussion is over. -badmachine 12:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

And note that creating a content fork does not work. I supported renaming, I do not support forking on Misplaced Pages. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:49, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

i know you supported it. thank you for your level headedness. :) -badmachine 12:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The requested move to Murder of Lin Jun was archived by a robot in error. It is still active, as we've only known the victim's name since June 1 (the move was requested in response to user:Tokyogirl79's proposal on Talk:Luka Magnotta which started at "Hey all, we have an ID on the Asian man that had been killed. It's Lin Jun, a 33 year old Chinese man. Tokyogirl79 04:53, 1 June 2012 (UTC)") and the discussion runs for a full week. The soonest this can be closed, even if a consensus is reached, is therefore June 8 (one week of discussion). Unfortunate that this was archived while still active (the 'bot is only supposed to archive threads which have gone a minimum number of days without an edit, not sure what went wrong) but this is still under discussion with no consensus. 66.102.83.61 (talk) 15:24, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Sean Sherlock

Hi, Please give reasons for removing expenses and salary data from 'Deputies 2008 Salary, Allowances and expenses payments made to members 1st January 2008 to 31st December 2008' and corresponding 2007 Irish state documentation released as pubic data under Irish Freedom of Information Legislation from this article?

It is

a)Pertinent b)Sourced and verifiable It is not 'undue' as you state or in any manner speculative but directly cited from public domain information released by the Irish government (document title above)

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.61.99 (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedoia deprecates material from "primary sources". If you wish the material in the biography of a living person (WP:BLP), you should find a WP:RS source for the claims made. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Primary sources are not prohibited per se by WP:RS, but it is advisable to avoid relying entirely on one primary source in order to avoid bias, WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. 66.102.83.61 (talk) 15:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

They are discouraged, and since there is no particular rationale for the use of that source, I am of the opinion that it does not belong in the BLP. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:39, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion the data has an excellent primary source - the Irish Goverment itself (the data is available relating to salaries and expenses for all Irish Politicians. This issue of the primary source is not really debatable.

As regards whether it is appropriate - clearly factual data without opinion offered on it relating to the subject without opinion or suggestion is relevent.

I suggest that it would be appropriate that it be added for all Irish politicians as it is information that has an irrefutable source, is entirely relevent and is in the public domain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.61.99 (talk) 18:47, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

In which case, start an RfC on the idea - unless you get consensus for it, it will not fly. Collect (talk) 19:59, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Actual COMMON usage

Pedants claim limiting usage the way you've suggested would render a more, sniff, prestigious dialect but actual practice (see Descriptive grammar) countervails any suggestion such a usage is universally maligned.

1. From that unreliable source (who shall remain nameless--for now):

   Some bookshave one or more eponymous principal characters: Robinson Crusoe, Moll Flanders, Emma, the Harry Potter series, The Legend of Zelda series, I Love Lucy, for example.---WIKIPEDIA: "Eponymous"

2. Prestigious (if, obv., "descriptive"-) lexicographers at American Heritage:

   "...deriving from an existing name or word: 'Programs such as He-Man and Masters of the Universe ... were all created with the explicit purpose of selling the eponymous toys to children' (Susan Gregory Thomas)."

--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 23:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Whatever.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 23:29, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Smile

Statυs (talk) 19:11, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Repeated forking of the Luka Magnotta article

It appears that, once again, someone has attempted to fork the Luka Magnotta article with the recreation of Murder of Lin Jun. I'm opposed to this for several reasons: #1, We have a clear majority of Oppose votes to move the article there, and #2, having two articles covering much of the same information means that, if/when we reach a final consensus with regards to whether we should keep the article here, there, or "split" them, people's work and research will be spread around over two articles, requiring a complete rewrite. It's not a smart idea to take it upon oneself to begin spreading information out over two articles without clear consensus IMO. Would you please offer your opinion on the discussion at Talk:Luka Magnotta? Thank you. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 04:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Please read WP:CANVASS and try to use neutrally worded notifications - I have evinced some opinions, but you will find others may well decide to point out CANVASS in their posts, which means my participation might be discounted there  :(. Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:49, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

A/n/i courtesy notice

Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Collect --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 14:50, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Dollar short - already responded to. Cheers - but your attempt to rehash what others already opined on at the template deletion discussion etc. for Romney is all too evident. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Please re-read wp:EDIT. Whereas this page indicates that sourcing issues can reasonably be template:Fact-tagged, it plainly says only to delete controversial assertions. Nothing in the chart you removed is in dispute.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 15:29, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Please read WP:BLP unsourced or poorly sourced claims in any article subject to WP:BLP should be removed. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:30, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Mathsci and Echigo Mole and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keystone Crow (talk • contribs) 04:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

• Noting that any such case was elided by ArbCom as being filed by a sock and this notification is non-utile. Collect (talk) 11:54, 10 June 2012 (UTC)