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Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

	Bratislava is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 31, 2008.
Article milestones Date Process Result May 29, 2007 Good article nominee Listed June 22, 2007 Peer review Reviewed August 30, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted September 17, 2007 Good article reassessment Kept October 14, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted October 11, 2010 Featured article review Demoted Current status: Former featured article

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To-do: E · H · W · RUpdated 2007-08-31 Replace as many web citations as reasonably possible with book/periodical references (long-running) Tag all foreign-language sources referenced with their language (long-running) Archive talk page when it will get long (long-running) Improve English-language sourcing (long-running) Make improvements based on practices used at other FA-class Cities articles Add information about flora and fauna into the Geography section

Archives

pre-2007 discussions April-May 2007 May-December 2007, includes name discussion and GA review early 2008

Presporok

Did anything change since we discussed this topic last time? I thought we agreed that Presporok is equally valid and has its place in the lead. Could you please present any counterarguments and quit the mindless revert war? Thanks  wlad 15:38, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Only because You and Yopie are continously saying that the name Presporok was as important as Pozsony and Pressburg were in the city's history, it is not enough on wikipedia. First of all, You should prove this. --Nmate (talk) 19:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Szt Gyorgy

Please see http://www.archive.org/details/ethnographiedero01czoe pp. 44. The name was used for the Szentgyorgymezo part of Esztergom (not Sturovo, I apologize). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wladthemlat (talk • contribs) 08:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Add link

{{editprotected}} Please change Čunovo Water Sports Centre in the Sport section to read Čunovo Water Sports Centre. It now has its own article (in the article name, Čunovo comes last). -- HowardMorland (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Linked as requested. -- Hoary (talk) 14:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

The debate, which should have been about facts and Misplaced Pages's policies drifted yet again into pointless nationalistic and historic rants. The bottom line is that there is no widespread usage of Pozsony in today's English so using this name in the opening paragraph is simply against the rules and against the consensus reached by people who contributed to the article substantially and upgraded this article into the featured status. Pressburg is also not widely used in English, but at least the historical significance gives the suggestion of including it in the opening paragraph some merit. The fact that Pozsony is used in a few books in English as the historic name can only prove that the name deserves to be in the Names section.--86.44.152.107 (talk) 16:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. Due to the renaming in 1919 old maps documents, contemporary sources and texts mention the city under a different, former official name, mentioning the historical names simply aid our readers identify the city formerly unknown under it's current name. As google search shows the former official name Pozsony and Pressburg are used all over the internet and helping the readers in this way costs us nothing really it is without a downside. I agree that all contributors of the article should be thanked for their work. It is interesting that you brought up the FA process, I don't know what consensus can you, a new user possibly refer to as this was almost two years ago. However would you call any such discussions neutral where one openly declares anti-Hungarian prejudice ? Did you abandon your suggestion of increasing the usage of "the city" or "it" in the article? Hobartimus (talk) 18:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

"OK, I apologize for the strong reaction, but still, I have mild prejudice against some, but not all Hungarian users. " this is in your opinion "openly declaring anti-Hungarian prejudice". What a waste of time reading your submissions. However I´m glad that, at least for now, article names section is in neutral state - as it should be. --EllsworthSK (talk) 23:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

An edit came up on my review screen which I initially approved, with the intention of correcting the wording. When starting the revision, I saw the note about this topic (which wasn't on the review screen). After a little research, I find Pozsony is a valid name for Bratislava, listed in both sources I checked, including the OED. The wording that Pozsony is an earlier, alternative name seems reasonable.

Regards, --UnicornTapestry (talk) 11:54, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Climate is Cfb not continental

The climate fullfils the Oceanic climate -criteria and is not cold enough in winter (at least a 24-hr mean of -3 Celsius in one month) to be humid continental. And precipitation is well spread over the year, as seen here. Orcaborealis (talk) 16:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

You refer to Köppen classification which the article does not claim to use (it also depends on whether you use the 0 or -3 Celsius threshold so it's moot anyway). The climate is widely referred to as continental in various local sources and popular use which is apparently reflected here. Anyways, planning some workout on the climate section...some time. Martin Gazdík (talk) 16:48, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

As for threshold, using +0°C is used to some extent by US climatologist, rarely outside the US. As for climate classification, I do not think that using the feelings of cityweb editor is the best attitude for Misplaced Pages. Nor I think the editor made enough effort to verify his conclusions with the latest scientific knowledge. Bratislava was originally estimated to belong to the continental climate, using then-available data. This can be still seen on some charts available at Misplaced Pages. Even more, perhaps local people feel more comfortable with “continental climate” classification because of landlockedness of their country. Both of these facts could result in statements claiming Bratislava climate as "continental." But it lacks sufficient scientific ground. Climatologic scientists from Austria and Germany recently tried to update the original Köppen map with improved data. The result was published in trustworthy scientific magazine and it puts Bratislava and its surrounding (but not entire Slovakia) climate clearly into oceanic climate. See the reference in the article. Perhaps, one more detail could be useful for this discussion: the average temperature in Central Europe is increasing (see the same resource), and Bratislava will reach the US threshold within some 5 years. This will make Bratislava climate being oceanic in all three widely used climate classification schemes. Michal @ 9:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with scientific pows but they tend to change all the time until they settle down, and to ignore contexts. "Local people" in this case comprise all types of local sources (scientific and popular) and a general consensus in kind that has formed over periods of time (with or without Köppen) the original editor draws upon and this one can attest to, so he rests the case for someone competent to decide which to prefer on Wiki for a general non-scientific description, as the scientific classification(s) have been added in the meantime too. Continental as a summary attribute is likely to be of better information value to a random visitor both for general reference and in context, e.g. relative to Vienna, which is termed borderline oceanic/continental here, or within the general Pannonian Basin (continental and increasingly so on the scale towards the east). And I do not think an encyclopedia should anticipate trends including climate trends, so this should be left out entirely as an argument. Martin Gazdík (talk) 00:54, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Images

See WP:MOS#Images; this article has mutliple instances of text sandwiched between images. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:42, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

A thorough WP:MOS review is needed here; I left sample edits, and I see even more. Also, portals are not external links, and see WP:MOS#ALLCAPS in citations. This article has significantly deteriorated from the version promoted three years ago, and could warrant a revisit of its featured status at FAR if issues aren't addressed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Population count

Last edits by 195.91.55.214 does not seem to be correct. Where is the information coming from? I cant find it on the internet using google. Can someone confirm the data or make sure that reverting is the correct thing to do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.167.72.156 (talk) 21:02, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation

Shouldn't this be the English pronunciation for the English-language version of W'pedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 17:11, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Added. - filelakeshoe 10:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Hungarian and German name

Filelakeshoe, I see no reason why these two names are included into first sentence of this articles. These are foreign names, not spoken by inhabitants of this city, not used in modern English, not official, and thus not important in any way. Furthermore, these are names used by former countries that oppressed Slovaks and I see no other reason why somebody would place these names there instead to "remind Slovaks about their former slavery". Also, in your article version, these names are first info that stick the eyes of the readers, i.e. readers would first read how name of this city is named in German and Hungarian and only after that that Bratislava "is the capital of Slovakia". I say that info that Bratislava is the capital of Slovakia is much more important than info how this city is named in some other languages. Also, if you say that these names should be there because these names where used by former countries that ruled over this city I can give you very good examples of how this issue is covered in some other articles: New York City was ruled by British Empire, but first sentence of this article does not have name in British English, Moscow was ruled by Tatars, but first sentence of this article does not have name in Tatar language, Bejing was ruled by Manchy dinasty, but first sentence of this article does not have name in Manchu language, etc, etc. Why Bratislava should be a different case? PANONIAN 21:30, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

"not spoken by inhabitants of this city"--Tell it to the minorities of the city. Fakirbakir (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Minorities? 16,541 Hungarians and 1,200 Germans? (And most members of these two groups are probably speaking Slovak by now). There are much more minorities in 3 World cities that I mentioned, but there are no minority names in their first sentences. So, I will reapeat the question: why Bratislava should be a different case? PANONIAN 22:06, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Filelakeshoe

Prague ( /ˈprɑːɡ/; Czech: Praha pronounced ( listen)) is the capital and largest city of the Czech Republic and fourteenth largest city in the European Union.[5

Warsaw (Polish: Warszawa ( listen); see also other names) is the capital and largest city of Poland.

Belgrade ( /ˈbɛlɡreɪd/; Serbian: Београд / Beograd; ( listen); names in other languages) is the capital and largest city of Serbia

Budapest Budapest ( /ˈbuːdəpɛst/, /ˈbuːdəpɛʃt/ or /ˈbʊdəpɛst/; Hungarian pronunciation: ( listen); names in other languages) is the capital and the largest city of Hungary

Riga (Latvian: Rīga, pronounced ( listen)) is the capital and largest city of Latvia.

Sarajevo (Cyrillic: Сарајево) (pronounced ) is the capital and largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina, with an estimated population of over 311,161 people within its administrative limits.

Sofia (Bulgarian: София, pronounced ( listen)) is the capital and largest city of Bulgaria and the 15th largest city in the European Union with a population of 1.2 million people.[

I agree: London has a quarter of a million Indian born residents but that article does not start with a Hindi or other non-English spelling. It makes even less sense here to include foreign names, both as the communities are far smaller and as it is in both English and Slovak so two languages are dealt with.--JohnBlackburne_deeds 00:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Those examples do not apply here ,however, there are similar examples in Central Europe that may be worth following : Gdańsk ,Szczecin, Wrocław. Also, the lead has been stable for many years and there is no reason to change it. As for "remind Slovaks about their former slavery", it is a rather inflammatory statement to make, and considering that this talk page is frequently read by Hungarian users as well, they can take it as a personal affront. Furthermore, I suggest to PANONIAN is to refrain from edit warring on including alternative names with articles related to Central Europe for the following reasons: he is subject to an arbitration case related to Serbian history and in case he should appeal it, edit warring over alternative names, and making inflammatory statements will not leave him a chance for success there.--Nmate (talk) 08:18, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Nmate, I suggest that you pull back these false accusations for "revert warring" against me. I only had one single original edit in several articles and users who reverted my edits should be warned for edit warring, not myself, since I did not reverted these articles after their revert. Also, I did not said anything inflammatory - expressing my own opinion about inflammatory nature of inclusion of foreign names into this article is not "inflammatory statement"; it is just one important issue that one should have in mind when dealing with this subject. You will not find my single statement anywhere that aimed to insult members of any ethnicity. PANONIAN 12:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

We should not forget that Bratislava is a multicultural city it has German, Slovak and Hungarian historical cultural heritages. London is bad example, London was not capital of a "Hindi sultanate" as opposed to Bratislava (it was capital of Kingdom of Hungary in the past). Fakirbakir (talk) 08:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Fakirbakir, history of Bratislava belongs to History section--Omen1229 (talk) 08:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with PANONIAN. Germans do not use these names for modern Bratislava, only Hungarians and this is the English wikipedia, right? German and Hungarian names are mentioned in the Names section, so please delete these repetitive information.--Omen1229 (talk) 08:42, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

What about Gdańsk ,Szczecin, and Wrocław? --Nmate (talk) 08:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

And what about Budapest, Prague, Warsaw...?--Omen1229 (talk) 09:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I have to admit the "names" section gives us information enough about names of the city in the past. Actually Pressburg was triplicated. Fakirbakir (talk) 09:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

As for "Budapest, Prague, Warsaw", it is not an apple to apple comparsion, which is very obvious.--Nmate (talk) 09:05, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion, it would be better to provide these name variants in the lead, as well. These are not "foreign" names: for example, according to the 2011 Slovak Census, there are more than 500,000 Slovak citizens whose mother tongue is Hungarian. Bratislava is their capital, as well. Moreover, there are hundreds of thousand English works (books, articles, etc.) which use these name variants of the town (e.g., in a historical context) . Providing these names would help those who came to this article by following Pressburg or Pozsony links/searches to quickly see that it is the very same town. Furthermore, reliable sources, such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, also give both of these additional variants (Pressburg, Pozsony) in their Bratislava articles . The London example is totally misleading, since most of those Slovak citizens who have other mother tongues than Slovak are not immigrants, they were born in Slovakia. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 09:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

PS: I think that many can find PANONIAN's sentence "I see no other reason why somebody would place these names there instead to "remind Slovaks about their former slavery"" offensive and xenophobic. Following such a twisted logic, one might say that those Slovak (or Serb or Romanian, etc.) citizens, whose mother tongue is not Slovak (or Serb or Romanian, etc.) are "slaves" in their countries. I fully disagree with this and find such comments disruptive. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 09:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I do not understand your POV. Each state has a minorities and Slovakia has probably 50 ethnic groups. So in the lead will be 50 language variants? By the way Bratislava has 16,541 Hungarians > 3,57% population.--Omen1229 (talk) 10:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

WTF?! I'm sorry to say this to you Panonian, but obviously you're not only clueless, but paranoid as well. First of all I WAS born in Bratislava, I AM a resident of Bratislava and I DO speak Hungarian (obviously I'd never call it anything else but Pozsony in Hungarian). The only reason Germans usually say "Bratislava" is because they don't know its original name (Preßburg) and that's what they're being told by Slovaks anyway. But let me tell you something: have you EVER traveled to Vienna from Bratislava (without using the highway)? Well, I did, and guess what have I found there? "Preßburger Reichstraße" in almost ALL the villages I went through all the way to Schwechat. I think that that tells a LOT about the German usage of Pressburg/Preßburg (or lack thereof).

As for the cluelessness you obviously don't know and don't WANT TO know the importance the city has played in Hungary's history (e.g. it was Hungary's capital for centuries, the parliament seated here, Kossuth and Széchenyi have presented all of their arguments in here, Hungarian kings were crowned here for centuries, this was the place where the Hungarian elite has assured Maria Theresa of its support etcetc.). Thus (weren't for the minority present there) the Hungarian name should be included for historical reasons as well. But like I said there's a considerable Hungarian minority STILL living there (in fact I know from personal experience that you should NEVER talk rude to anybody in Hungarian, because chances are that the person's either Hungarian or speaks Hungarian well enough to understand you), so the Hungarian name's there to stay (along with the German one). And since I'm actually member of that minority, I have to refuse any arguments that try to dismiss the presence of those minorities.

As for your inflammatory statement (Furthermore, these are names used by former countries that oppressed Slovaks and I see no other reason why somebody would place these names there instead to "remind Slovaks about their former slavery") I don't think that it needs any further comment (even if it meant to be ironic or something, because it's tasteless even for that) as the others have already said everything that needed to be told about it.

Also JohnBlackburne please do not compare London to Bratislava in this manner. Hungarians and Germans of Bratislava constitute an indigenous population of the city/Slovakia and NOT immigrants (as ALL the Slovak nationalists assert). In my case even my grandmother was born in Bratislava (and lived there almost her entire life) and my great-grandfather (her father) was born in Jelka (a village now in Slovakia, but the time of his birth was in Hungary), but spent most of his life in Bratislava too. So arguing with Indians, Arabs and whatnot would be akin to arguing that e.g. the Scots or Welsh are immigrants in Britain (and I'm sure that they'd be pissed as hell of such assertion). Hence please refrain from comparing apples to oranges.

@Omen1229: I'm sorry to disappoint you, but in Misplaced Pages there's no language law and other such nuisance meant to make the minorities' (especially Hungarians') lives miserable. Hence the "20% rule" definitely does NOT apply. So arguing that Hungarian/German name should NOT be added because they constitute "only" 1,2,3,4 etc. percent of the total population is kinda pointless.

Also let me provide a brief history lesson for the "uninitiated" ones: the city of Pressburg had a Hungarian AND German (and Jewish, as they constituted mostly the urban population) dominance, Slovaks have constituted a minority there. After 1920 however its population has been radically altered by displacement of original Hungarian population (a lot of which have sought refuge in Hungary and lived in train wagons around the major train stations of Budapest for years), mass immigration of Czech government officers (and generally intelligentsia meant do displace the former Hungarian one) and statistical chicanery at censuses. Thus the Hungarian in Bratislava have ceased to have minority rights by the 1930s. An even more radical ethnic cleansing took place after WWII, when the German population (like I said mostly indigenous population, not immigrants as Slovak nationalists assert) has been expulsed by the Beneš decrees and the Hungarian population has either fell victim of a genocide (some mass graves have been filled in Petržalka with Hungarians AFTER the war), was deported to the Sudetenland in cattle wagons (usually the ones that were previously used to deport first the Jews, then the Germans) or was forcible deported to Hungary during the "population exchange". This has left Bratislava with a decreased number of Hungarians to begin with, who has been further assimilated e.g. by having the number of their schools reduced, voluntary assimilation etc. Yet there are STILL some Hungarians (and Germans) present in Bratislava, who constitute the most notable minorities of the city. -- CoolKoon (talk) 11:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Nice essay, but history of Bratislava belongs to History section and your original research belongs to your diary.--Omen1229 (talk) 12:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I know that it'd be MUCH more comforting for you if the stuff I've written above would be "original research", but I have LOADS of sources to back every single of those statements. And believe me, I WILL do so when I get down to adding content for the appropriate section at the Slovakization article, so you'll get to check all of them. This however is a talk page, hence I don't have to source everything I say.

Also, thanks for reminding me to check out the "History of Bratislava" article and the appropriate section in this article. I'll surely do that in the foreseeable future as well. -- CoolKoon (talk) 18:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Firstly sorry for taking so long to comment here - I was away for a lot longer than I expected last night. The reason, for example, "Kassa" and "Pressburg" are relevant enough to go in the lede is because they were used by English sources in the relatively near past. Before WW1, Hungarian names for cities now in Slovakia were the expected form in English. So many English sources use these names, and the point of introducing them straightaway is to inform the reader who might have read about "Kassa" in a pre-Trianon source (or indeed the treaty of Trianon itself) that this is the same city as "Košice". It's nothing to do with there being Hungarians in Slovakia (so comparison to "the Hindi name for London" misses the point), it's to do with the Hungarian names being used in English sources. Many city articles also mention Latin names in the lede for the same reason.

I do understand however that WP:NCGN and WP:LEAD advise to "avoid clutter", therefore I agree for example that listing every official name of Novi Sad in the lede sentence is overload, and there might be a case to reduce the amount of names in the Bratislava article too - but there should be a clear link to a lower section, "other names". But I really think the Hungarian name should be given in Slovak city articles. Arguments about "reminding Slovaks of slavery" are moot, we're trying to write an encyclopedia here, if people get offended by history that isn't our problem.

As for Bratislava, I was skeptical about whether "Pozsony" was used in English, but Koertefa showed me I was rather mistaken. Having thought about this more I don't see a problem with an "other names" link like in Belgrade/Budapest examples given above, and still mentioning that it was formerly known as Pressburg (I get the feeling that should be spelled with ss rather than ß) in English in the 3rd paragraph as now. - filelakeshoe 15:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to congratulate User:PANONIAN to stirring up tensions: you were so successful in sowing the wind (and reaping the whirlwind) that the article's been protected for 2 days (see this ANI entry for details). Was this your goal or something? -- CoolKoon (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Filelakeshoe, for finally inserting a bit of sense into this incredibly stupid and misdirected discussion. Yet another instance of this lame old "who gets their favourite name mentioned in a lead" game. Sigh. To express Filelakeshoe's point in somewhat stronger terms: everybody in the previous debate above has been dead wrong, on both sides, because you have all been debating based on a wrong-headed premise.

Get this into your heads: Whether or not to mention a name in the lead has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with the existence of minorities, or the role of this or that ethnicity in the history of a place. There is only one single criterion that really counts for this question: whether a name has had currency in English. Nothing else. Everybody who has been evaluating this proposal with arguments about the historical importance of this or that ethnicity for the city, or the importance of the city for this or that ethnicity: please go away and bang your heads against a brick wall or something, until you have managed to disabuse yourselves of this bizarre notion that mentioning – or not mentioning – a name variant in an article lead should be used as a symbolic badge of recognition in favour of some ethnicity or other. </rant> Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

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