Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:29, 25 April 2006

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Talk archives: Archive 1 (moved April 28, 2005)

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in response to your talk on Jadger's userpage

then why is the information so different if it is just a mirror?Jadger 03:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

i mean on answers.com it says it was an execution in teh first paragraph, yet here they insist it was a murderous rampageJadger 03:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

i hope it is suitable now, ur quote puts it more in focus as the other's previous posts had it looking like it was ordered for teh soldiers to murder people, if it was the Dirlewanger brigade which was notorious then it sheds light, thanks a lotJadger 03:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Wola page

your current revision of the Wola page is suitable to me, as it states the same thing I was trying to. unfortunately we will have to wait to see if the national extremists will acceptJadger 04:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Pila

Hi. Regarding the usage of German names for polish cities please check the outcome of a vote at Talk:Gdansk/Vote. Basically, if the location also has a german history, both names have to be mentioned at least once in the article. Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 05:25, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about the noticeboard, I have added my comments there, too. About the naming: Please understand, that many polish cities are still frequently known to english speakers under their german name. Hence, double naming DOES help users when they are looking for information. And yes, I am not messing around but try to enforce community consensus. Please respect the majority vote. -- Chris 73 Talk 06:32, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Addendum: If you are upset by the word German, I would have no problems with just Szczecin (Stettin). -- Chris 73 Talk 06:44, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Gdansk/Vote#Results_on_VOTE:_Cross-Naming_General: for the vote (44-17 for) on this explicit situation. --Calton | Talk 06:52, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Editing errors

Please be careful when editing. This edit to WP:AN deleted the posts of several other users. Noel (talk) 19:48, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

No, some have already been restored, I am doing the others. Noel (talk) 20:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Glosowanie

Problem w tym glosowaniu jest nastepujacy:

Jak sam widzisz niektorzy nadinterpretuja wynik (specjalnie) i kazda swoja zmiane artykulu tlumacza "wynikiem glosowania" kazdy swoj revert (ktory lamie regule 3RR) "wynikiem glosowania".

Kolejna sprawa to same glosowanie, nie bylo ani jednego podobnego glosowania w sprawie innych miast na wikipedii, nie wiem dlaczego dopuszczono do wyjatku...

Glosowanie organizowala ta sama osoba ktora wykluczala glosy (jesli byly za Gdanskiem) a nie wykluczala glosow ktore byly za Danzingiem. Wymienilem jeden przyklad na stronie dyskusyjnej Gdanska i Hallibutt pare na stronie dyskusyjnej "template" - i przypuszczam ze tego by bylo wiecej. Ta sama osoba ignorowala protesty wielu osob gdy glosowanie sie skonczylo.

Tak w ogole nie istnieje zadna regula ktora mowi ze uzytkownicy, powiedzmy ponizej 20 editow, nie moga brac udzialu w glosowaniu - wiec ta pewna osoba poprostu sobie wybierala kogo glos zaliczyc kogo nie.

Jednym slowem wyniki glosowania byly sfalszowane. Na korzysc pro-niemieckiego punktu widzenia.

A chyba najbardziej parszywe jest to, ze ci ktorzy manipulowali glosowaniem i naciagaja jego wynik, obecnie przedstawiaja tych ktorzy je kwestionuja jako buntownikow - a siebie samych jako obroncow regul i porzadku na wikipedii. (spontanicznie mi to przypomina wybory na Bialorusi) --Witkacy 00:27, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Otóż to, Panowie. Jasio K. sprawia wrażenie sensownego faceta i chyba można z nim dojść do jakiegoś porozumienia. Poczekajmy, zobaczymy co wyniknie z tej dyskusji. Na razie zebraliśmy dowód fałszerstwa i kilka mocnych argumentów. Chyba dobrze by było na którejś ze stron zreasumować całą sprawę, najlepiej napisać w punktach i z detalami to, co Witkacy napisał powyżej. Im więcej konkretów i faktów tym lepiej. Halibutt 12:34, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Problem z Jasiem jest ze nie akceptuje prostych faktow i za wszelka cene broni ostatniego przegiecia Krzysia&Co - placze sie rowniez w swoich wypowiedziach raz mowi ze nie bylo uzgodnione dodawanie wszedzie niemieckich nazw, na innej stronie dyskusyjnej (dzien pozniej) sadzi cos innego. Raz mowi ze w zasadzie nie istnieje zadne prawo ktore mowi ze mozna wykluczac glosy (w wyniku malej ilosci editow), a zaraz potem znajduje jakias wzmianke ktora wogole tego nie dotyczy i uwaza ze glosy zostaly wykluczone zgodnie z oficjalnym prawem wikipedii...

Co do zresumowania calej sprawy na jednej stronie - masz racje, trzeba stworzyc jakas i na niej wymienic przejzyscie wszystkie argumenty.--Witkacy 14:02, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Molotov line

Added information about fortifications in Lithuania as well a link to pictures, as you asked. And no I am not angry on you lol. DeirYassin 15:27, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Zivinbudas

Mam faceta serdecznie dość. Wszczynam przeciw niemu ArbCom, dołączysz? Halibutt 23:33, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Zacząłem przygotowywać wstępny szkic WP:ArbReq na User:Halibutt/Zivinbudas. Czy mógłbyś go przejrzeć? Na razie jest tam tylko moje oświadczenie, wkrótce dodam resztę. Halibutt 23:58, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, dopisałem. Mógłbyś to przejrzeć jeszcze raz i dokonać poprawek / rozszerzyć? Halibutt 00:19, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Też się pewnie przyłączy, dlatego na razie czekam. Do tego dojdzie pewnie kilka osób z Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Zivinbudas, które powiadomię jutro z rana. Ciekaw jestem czy można się dołączyć do już rozpoczętej sprawy, czy też wszystkie strony muszą być zadeklarowane od razu... Halibutt 00:28, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedians' notice board

• ]

zapraszam.--Witkacy 13:18, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

User:Zivinbudas

I have now officially filed an arbitration request against User:Zivinbudas. Since you were one of the parties disputing his behaviour, please join the WP:RfA discussion. Halibutt 04:09, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee case opening

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas has been accepted and is now open. Please bring evidence to Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas/Evidence. Thank you. -- sannse (talk) 10:03, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Discution and vote about the Polish and Lithuanian city names

http://en.wikipedia.org/Naming_conventions/Vote_on_city_naming , tell your opinion on the matter DeirYassin 22:06, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Nobody anyhow dispute dthe choices I suggested in Talk:Goldap nor told their opinion though. I don't know where exactly I should have started such preparation of choices. If you have more experience on this matter, you might take over and edit what is needed to be edited. The separate discution on this and/or vote is needed however because current discutions on many places leads nowhere and also having to repeat same arguements to different people on different cities' talk pages is kinda useless. DeirYassin 22:46, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As for reverts done at that page I guess more people related to this visists that page (Goldap) - at least you do, also Halibutt, Zivinbudas, me, probably some more of those involved. This is one of actually related pages, while both Lithuania and Poland pages aren't directly related and also posting on one of them would be non-neutral. Therefeore, separate page is needed IMO, which I created and informed all people related to the issue. I start to loose hope that on this issue it is possible to reach any peaceful solution as there are just too many nationalists with their own interests+POV and, unfortunately, common people from other parts of the world knows too little about the topic to be able to mediate more. DeirYassin 23:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Gdańsk i inne takie

Balcerze, masz całkowitą słuszność ale... no właśnie, ale. Po pierwsze, akcje "pewnych czynników" nie potrzebują legitymizacji. Mają pełne poparcie administratorów, choć są w sposób oczywisty nadużyciem wyniku głosowania. Nie są zgodne z jego duchem, ale z literą - jak najbardziej. Próbowaliśmy dojść do jakiejś ugody na odpowiednich stronach dyskusji, jednak osoby pokroju Chrisa Drei und Siebzig skutecznie całą rzecz zbojkotowały i, wykorzystując swoje przywileje, wcisnęły "cross-naming" gdziekolwiek się tylko dało, wszystko jedno czy miało to sens czy nie. Lacznosciowiec Szczecin, Donald Tusk i Amber mogą być świetnym przykładem.

Skoro więc akcje User:Chris 73 mają pełne poparcie (między innymi User:John Kenney) i są uważane za zgodne z zasadami, to w czym ja tym zasadom uchybiam? Dlaczego nie mam prawa egzekwować wyników głosowania równie bezwzględnie co inni? I dlaczego mam się godzić na podwójne standardy. Ten miecz ma dwa ostrza i chyba dopiero teraz wszyscy sobie to uświadomili. Dlatego będę kontynuował egzekwowanie używania podwójnego nazewnictwa w odniesieniu do Drezna, które - było nie było - było przez prawie wiek polską stolicą. Jeśli ktoś zdecyduje się na powtórzenie glosowania, tym razem bez nadużyć i bez takich kwiatków - będę bardzo zadowolony. A na razie - wracam do revertowania, do którego ostatnie głosowanie dało mi pełne prawo. Halibutt 07:23, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Odpowiem krótko tutaj bo twoja strona dyskusji jest już zawalona. Rozumiem twoje racje, ale jednak jest dla mnie jasne że twoje działania należą bezdyskusyjnie do kategorii WP Point. Co więcej, czy nie boisz się że twoje działania na stronach niemieckich miast przyciągna na strony miast polskich więcej proniemieckich użytkowników gotowych do udziału w rewertowych wojenkach? Mamy już wystarczająco dużo problemów z kilkoma rewizjonistami, co będzie jeśli będzie ich kilkunastu albo jeszcze więcej? Balcer 19:00, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wybacz, nie zauważyłem wcześniej Twojego komentarza. Po pierwsze, ja naprawdę nie chciałem niczego nikomu udowodnić. Jeśli już, to starałem się to zrobić na Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion i na stronie dyskusji samego szablonu, ale tam mi się najwyraźniej nie udało, bo i Jasio i Krzysio dyskusję po prostu zaczęli ignorować. Po z górą miesiącu po prostu zacząłem wymagać stosowania zasad we wszystkich przypadkach. I tyle. Jeśli ustalono jakieś zasady i nie ma woli ich zmiany, to należy się zacząć do nich stosować. I tyle.

A co do rewizjonistów - a co za różnica czy będzie ich siedmiu czy dziesięciu? Halibutt 03:18, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Vote clarification proposal

Hi Balcer. Thanks for your request on my talk page. Recently the time I have for Misplaced Pages has varied a lot depending on other things in my life, and i did not always have time to read all comments on Template talk:Gdansk-Vote-Notice. I am sorry about that.

• Users are advised to use common sense when applying the results of this vote. The use of the literal interpretation of the vote to disrupt Misplaced Pages and start revert wars is strongly discouraged. This sounds good to me. I doubt it would make a difference in the editing behavior, but I would feel comfortable in adding it. I actually also think we may not even need a vote to add this, but just add it to the summary. Other admins input on this would be appreciated.
• The naming of many places in the region that share a history between Germany and Poland are also a source of edit wars. For these places, in articles relevant to this shared history the first reference of one name should also include a reference to other commonly used names, e.g. Stettin (now Szczecin, Poland) or Szczecin (Stettin). This one i am not convinced about. The modification can also be interpreted very widely. However, I think the goal is not to have historic names listed in articles, but rather alternative names by which the place is known in english (See comment by Jnc). Hence the double naming is useful for english language users of Misplaced Pages, and a large majority supported the double naming on the vote. I think double naming is not needed for soccer teams, but for the suburbs of Szczecin it is helpful to know that they are in Szczecin (Stettin).

Personally, I don't really care what the place is called, but I get pissed off if other users completely ignore any voting consensus and just remove any information they do not like (, , , there are more but I have no time checking all of their edits.). Also, I do not care if it is (German: Stettin) or just (Stettin). Hope this answers your questions, and sorry for the current trouble. -- Chris 73 Talk 11:26, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

In this context, I think it's worth observing that it took me quite a long time after Lech Walesa appeared in the news until I finally realized that this place "Gdansk" they were talking about was the same city I knew of (from my history books, especially the start of WWII) as Danzig! I think we ought to keep in mind that the average reader is a UK/US/Australian/etc citizen who's probably not up on the details of Baltic history. I mean, I'm a considerably-better-than-average knowledgable person, and it took me a while to make the connection! Noel (talk) 19:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I understand the feelings of English-speaking users who don't readily make the connection between Gdansk and Danzig. However, I also understand the feelings of some Polish users who feel, shall we say, a certain unease when the German name is displayed too prominently, even in obscure articles which really do not seem very relevant to shared Polish/German history. To them this may smack of attempts at historical revisionism and reviving old border claims. The way to reconcile these two opposing viewpoints is of course to compromise, include the German name prominently in the headers of articles about cities, but not insisting on using the bilingual form everywhere in Misplaced Pages. Balcer 20:35, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Balcer - I mostly agree with your proposal, but I think that, given Halibutt's behavior, we need to modify the "share a history" bit, as well. As it is, it is too vague, and allows Halibutt to claim that Dresden "shares a history" because Saxony and Poland were in personal union in the 18th century, or that Mainz qualifies because it had a substantial Polish diaspora and had Polish troops stationed there during the Napoleonic wars. This is on the face of it absurd, but I'd like to change the wording to make such casuistry impossible. john k 17:56, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know there is probably a German equivalent to Hailbutt's Polish additions, but as the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right". We need to stop and censure people on both sides with regards to violating the letter and/or spirit of the Gdansk agreement. I am on the German side of this only because those are the articles I edit and watch, and we have plenty of edit wars without people from other edit wars coming in and adding to it. DirectorStratton 18:56, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Poland.gov.pl

Zobacz:

"Minister Spraw Zagranicznych posiada pełne i nieograniczone autorskie prawa majątkowe do materiałów promocyjnych umieszczonych na stronie www.poland.gov.pl. we wszystkich wersjach językowych w szczególności do: logotypów, tekstów, zdjęć, tabeli i wykresów na wszelkich polach eksploatacji w nieograniczonej liczbie nadań. Materiały te mogą być wykorzystywane do celów promocji Polski zgodnych z kierunkami polskiej polityki zagranicznej przez instytucje rządowe i pozarządowe. Materiały te nie mogą być wykorzystywane przez polskie i zagraniczne osoby prawne i fizyczne dla celów osiagania korzyści majątkowych."

Nie moga byc uzyte w celu osiagniecia korzysci majatkowych - wikipedia jest niekomercyjna encyklopedia, wiec materialy z tej strony moga byc uzywane (moim zdaniem). Z czasem i tak kazdy artykul sie troche zmienia, ktos cos doda, przepisze itd. Tutaj mamy przypadek uzycia materialow w celu edukacyjnym wiec raczej nasz minister spraw zagranicznych nie mialby nic przeciwko. Co do notki, wstawiajac tekst dodalem link strony do "komentarza" - wydaje mi sie ze rzadko ktos uzywa material z wikipedii w celach komercyjnych, a jesli juz to napewno dokladnie sprawdza skad owy material pochodzi--Witkacy 10:21, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ale zwroc uwage ze wszystkie obrazki "fair-use" sa rowniez na tym mirrorze - chodz co poniektore z nich maja zaostrzone prawa autorskie, jak np loga firm. A artykul Dabrowskiego zostal specjalnie stworzony "do promocji historii Polski" za pieniadze podatnikow.--Witkacy 15:16, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No tak, slyszalem ze z obrazkami "fair-use" sa problemy i rozne opinie na temat ich uzywania. Nie mniej jednak, uwazam ze artykul ze strony panstwowej, ktora pozwala na uzywanie materialu, moze spokojnie istniec na Wikipedii :)--Witkacy 15:59, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Respect

I just thought I stop by to say that appreciate your attempts to cool off some heads Wikipedia_talk:Polish_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Minsk_i_Kij.F3w and other talk and user:talk pages. I made similar calls trying to convince the editors upset by recent DE/PL and PL/LT name conflicts, as well as by the Russian name in Kiev article, to help improve the city history sections instead of making a WP:Point. I think the project Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions/Vote on city naming may help resolve such problems in the future and I will also try to come up with some ideas there. Thanks again! Do widzenia, -Irpen 00:13, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Suburbs

Thanks for your input on the Stettin suburbs. I am perfectly fine with your solution on Szczecin-Bukowo. Hope, Witkacy agrees, too. -- Chris 73 Talk 18:18, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your work in updating all the suburbs. I greatly appreciate it. These places got quite a bit of wild editing in the last few days, hopefully your solution is acceptable to all. -- Chris 73 Talk 19:12, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

That would be Szczecin-Wielgowo->Stettin-Augustwalde and Szczecin-Klucz -> Stettin-Klütz . I would do the edits, but I don't want to fuel the fire. Can you do these, too? Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 20:05, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Survey guidelines fixing

So that the Gdansk/Vote horror never repeats itself :) Please see the proposal at my userspace, it is an updated version of Template_talk:Gdansk-Vote-Notice#Constructive_proposal. After I hear (or not) and incorporate comments from you and several other users I know are interested in fixing this, I will officialy move this to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) and I would like you to be one of the co-signatures of the proposal. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:05, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the comments, I tried to incorporate them into the final version. See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(policy)#Fixing_giant_loopholes_in_Wikipedia:Survey_guidelines. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:35, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Re:Bad faith

I appreciate your translation work Balcer, but I do not appreciate being called paranoid. Logolist was refering to a topic I brought up, logolist knows I don't speak Polish, yet logolist posted a response about a topic I brought up in Polish. If logolist wanted me to know what was being said he would have posted in English or provided a translation and he did not. That sir is fact, not paranoia. Excluding someone already discussing a topic, is not only rude, but in bad faith. I don't go around demanding translations of texts on talk pages, but I do insist on English being used in public spaces on the English wikipedia. As for describing people as paranoid, such statements are largely, viewed as personal attacks, I would urge caution in making such statemnets in the future, you will find not all wikipedians are as understanding as I. As for the tranlation, I thank you for the offer, but as I'm sure you now know, it is no longer necessary. -JCarriker 16:05, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Stress and frustration often make people say things that they don't mean. It's part of being human. :) I have something of an effort going to request that editors of the Polish collab use English, even in responding to posts in Polish. Its a polite way of encouraging the others to join in, while mainting good faith. It also doesn't require translation. -JCarriker 16:27, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Moving Polish discussion

Yes, by e-mail. You could always set up another account, I have a rather good free account at yahoo.com that seperate spam into a seperate folder. There is ofcourse also the option of a sister project on pl.wikipedia.org which is about collaboration between pl and en on polish topics. -JCarriker 17:16, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry I misread what you said. I thought were talking about my suggestions on Polish Collab. However one of my suggestions would need a workable account. Sorry for the confusion. -JCarriker 17:25, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

What do you think of my proposals for moving the discussion? Perhaps we should contiue the conversation on IRC? -JCarriker 17:31, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

I will no longer be going out of my way to help the Polish community here. I'm tired of working in a simi-hostile enviorment. I'll still be available for individual Polish friends if they need me, or invite me to a page. Good luck. -JCarriker 10:12, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Tnx, plz vote again :)

Renomination: Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/History of Poland (1945-1989). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 4 July 2005 11:28 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Wikiportal/Ukraine

A project Misplaced Pages:Wikiportal/Ukraine created by several editors is now live. I am sure this topic is of interest to you. Cheers, --Irpen July 8, 2005 22:06 (UTC)

Arbitration case - final decision

A decision has been reached in the arbitration case relating to Zivinbudas. He has been banned from Misplaced Pages for one year. Please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas#Final decision for further details and the full decision. -- sannse (talk) 15:49, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

the nonsense continues

(spamming you, since you also participated in the discussion:) The deleted-per-VfD Polish Wikipedians' Black Book, which was resurrected at User:Halibutt/Black Book has, since Jimbo Wales commented on the first resurrection's talk page, been resurrected as User:Halibutt/Black book. Despite my request for clarification on the talk page there, I have received nothing but accusations of vandalism from a troll who has since been banned for a week for repeated personal attacks (against me and others). Any ideas for how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Tomer 04:07, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Allies of WWII

A long discussion has just ended concerning that article and how to mention the relationship between Germany and USSR in it. Some kind of compromise has been reached. Therefore, please, think carefully before introducing new changes, so that the battle does not start again.

Ok, I didn't know about that.

I reverted your edit because I find it reflects the standard Soviet line on the subject which has not been accepted by mainstream historiography. The details of the negotiations between France and Britain on one side and the Soviet Union on the other in the summer of 1939 are complicated, but to lay all the blame for their failure on Western governments is an exaggeration. Furthermore, how can you say that the Soviet Union was constrained by Germany in 1939. The USSR then was the largest country in the world and had the largest army in the world.

It was not the largest country in the world. Churchill's empire was much larger. And its army was not the largest, let alone most efficient.

You are right of course, 2nd largest country then. Keep in mind though that many components of the British Empire were more of a net burden than an asset. I did not say the USSR had the most efficient army, but I am pretty sure it had the largest, especially when mobilized (which of course it would be in the event of a war). We have to keep in mind that in 1939 the German army also suffered from certain deficiencies, which it corrected by practicing in Poland and France. Balcer 15:24, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

There was no prospect of an immediate German invasion, as Hitler first had to conquer Poland and then France before he could move against the Soviet Union. Balcer 14:49, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

As for "no prospect of immediate German invasion", this is ridiculous. Hitler clearly outlined his plans on Russia in the Mein Kampf. --Ghirlandajo 14:56, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

By immediate I mean within the next 12 months, say. Of course in the longer term Hitler definitely wanted to destroy the Soviet Union. But to do that he had to first remove the buffer states (Poland etc.) and establish a common border with the Soviet Union, and then defeat France so that his rear would be secured. The pact with Stalin allowed him to do precisely that. Balcer 15:24, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Survey_guidelines#Fixing_giant_loopholes

The debate has restarted, your input would be much appreciated, as the discussed propoasal is the one incorporating your previous suggestions and comments. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions/Geographic names

I think there is quite a good discussion with an excellent proposal being hammered out by several users at Misplaced Pages:Naming_conventions/Geographic_names and its talk. The latest version is very close to what I would like to see as a Misplaced Pages policy and, if implemented, it would also help to keep certain behaviours of certain users at bay. Your input is welcome of course. --Irpen 08:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Nominacja na admina

Nie myslales o tym kiedys? Nie widzialem ci nigdy w zadnym revert warze, wiec moralnie sie klasyfikujesz, a adminski status daje kilka fajnych narzedzi (rollback, view deleted, (un)delete, (un)protect, (un)block) - przydaja sie od czasu do czasu. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:29, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Czego brakuje ci w ilosci, nadrabiasz jakoscia - ale nie bede cie zmuszal. Tymczasem zerknij na Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/Halibutt. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:45, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Long deserved

Powiat/County

I believe we settled the matter a long time ago at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Geography of Poland, though in fact noone of the involved wanted to do the tremendous work of moving all the articles and cleansing all the list. Anyway, I believe that the powiat should be moved back and if consistency is the main factor here, how about cleansing that matter together? Just for the start, I moved all the powiats withing Mazovian Voivodship (List of powiats in Poland) and corrected their UTF encoding. How about dividing the work onto two and doing it now?

Also, I contacted Ausir about his proposal of creation of bot-generated articles on the remaining units of territorial division. Halibutt 14:12, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

In fact it was sort of settled in absentia as there were two people for powiats, one for district and one for prefecture. Not a huge voting it was, but still I considered the case settled and moved the unfortunate hrabstwo on sight. Now that enough time has passed I think we could indeed cleanse the list and move all the articles to where they belong. So, I propose to split the work. I'll do the list from Mazovia up, you could do the rest (from Mazovia down to the bottom). Then we could add a pretty little header explaining what's the problem with translation of powiat into English and we'd have a great list. What do you say?

As to bot-generated articles, I contacted Tsca, as he seems to be the guy to know how to do it. Halibutt 18:07, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't be able to help with any translation from Polish at all, but I could easily help with changing County to Powiat and fixing Unicode spelling. Olessi 04:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Could you take a look at my edit of Powiat of Czarnków-Trzcianka to make sure it is in the desired style? Also, what is the proper phrasing when using voivodships? "Łódź is in Łódź Voivodship" sounds better than "Łódź is in the Łódź Voivodship", but "Warsaw is in the Masovian Voivodship" sounds better than "Warsaw is in Masovian Voivodship". Olessi 06:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

GooglePrint

Hi Balcer.Do you know perhapsi if it is possible perhaps to give links to specific googleprint pages ? --Molobo 12:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC) Thank you-it will be extremely useful. --Molobo 16:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Vodka Pisser

This seems to actually be an epithet being used by, or to describe a user, User:Ghirlandajo, who's involved in some sort of dispute about something or 'nother with User:Halibutt and other Polish WPans. See this. I dunno who added it to the list, but it might bear checking into... (search for "vodka pisser"...it appears a few times...) Tomer 02:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know the term has popped up in some exchanges between a few users on Misplaced Pages, and of course it was in the article. However, it is not used anywhere else, as far as I know and according to Google, which shows nine solid hits, all of them simply copies of that Misplaced Pages content. Hence, it does not belong on the List of ethnic slurs. Unless of course we allow there terms made up by Misplaced Pages users. Then anyone could think of hundreds that could be added. Balcer 03:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

That could be a lot of fun!  :-) Tomer 19:34, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Radzymin 1944

I'll see what I can do tomorrow. As to Kirchmayer - it's quite strange, but he was allowed to (posthumously, of course) to mention more than the Soviets would like to hear, eventhough the cenzorship was surely there. I can't tell all the details since I'm using the 1994 edition, which was un-censored. Anyway, definitely a thing to read - and the first such serious work on the topic. Halibutt 22:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I found it: Halibutt 18:40, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, it's far from being perfect, though it seems quite credible. As to non-web sources, frankly I don't know. There might be something in Kunert's Wielka ilustrowana encyklopedia powstania warszawskiego as well as his Kalendarium, though the latter says little, as usual. You know, same old "Reds stopped" thing without much archive search or primary documents cited. Also a quick search through the National Library catalogue shows some interesting positions, among them , , , , , . As to Radzymin - there should be more here and especially here and here. I'm going to the Warsaw University library next week and I'll see what I can find out. Halibutt 19:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Maków Mazowiecki

Just wanted to stop in and say "thanks" for your contributions in the creation of this article. I appreciate your efforts. --AustinKnight 14:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Please take part in the improval of this article

Hello. I would like to inform you that there is an ongoing discussion at article Territorial claims of the Baltic States (formerly was known as "Lost territories of the Baltic States", but was recently renamed; some users seems to disagree with that renaming). Recent edits as well were accused of POV, and, in fact, article was disputed for a long time already. I noticed your previous contributions to that article when it was disputed, therefore I think your opinion is much needed now as well. It would be nice if you would add that article to your watchlist and continue helping to improve it until a decition will be reached about its future (there is currently a poll about it in the article's talk page). I hope together we all will be able to make that article neutral. Kaiser 747 10:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Koniuchy and Jedwabne

Both massacres are connected in discourse in Poland .Whatever this is right or wrong morally is unimportant for Wiki as it presents facts and doesn't judge them. --Molobo 19:39, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

See for example this translation from Rzeczpospolita mentioning both massacres : http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom/J/Wojc.html

Request for comment

It may not be up your alley, but very few people have came through RfC I posted about History of the World, and there is a slow but pointless revert war there (see Talk:History_of_the_World#Graph_straw_poll), so I am now down to asking fellow Wikipedians to take a look if you have time and will.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Geography of Poland discussion

Could you take a look at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Geography of Poland#Terminology? Logologist has begun renaming some of the voivodships (Lower Silesia to Dolny Śląsk), but I don't believe a clear consensus has been reached regarding terminology. Olessi 05:16, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Katyn

Personally, I've read a bit about it and I am unconvinced of the Soviet guilt POV, but actually I think that's irrelevant. I think that the Nazi guilt POV is notable enough (regardless of accuracy) to warrant better and more neutral coverage than the article gives it. Everyking 07:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful job of de-Irvining with Google Print! When you are done, can you note the progress at Talk:Katyn_massacre#De-Irvining? Note we already had some refs there, but didn't apply it to maintext (was to sleepy yesterday) - they can save you a little time, perhaps.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:30, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Pact

Kudos for the article on German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact. By starting it you've proven that you gave up with the persistant efforts at whitewashing the embarrassing stains in Poland's history, stopped inducing Ghirlandajo to think that the article will never be written and, above all, started a decent article :) To add a teaspoon of tar to this barrel of honey, I started an article on Soviet-Polish Non-Aggression Pact, just in case some crazed German appeared and started bragging about lack of such article in, let's say, Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Pikachu. Halibutt 05:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

A decent idea indeed. Unfortunately, it's been ages since I finished my high school and I don't feel like starting the article myself - at least not right now. Perhaps the short mention of the equal distance from Pol-Sov pact article could be turned into a stub - though I'm not sure we want a stub. For the same reasons you stated at my talk page. Halibutt 06:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't have Ken's works at hand, both are available through the National Library though. I added them mostly for Ghirla and other Russians to check for themselves in case of a conflict like that. Revolution from abroad on the other hand mentions that the pact was not renounced until September 17, 1939, when the Soviets declared all their bindings with Poland null and void. I never heard of the Soviets renouncing it in 1938, though there might've been similar threats back then. Especially that the Czechoslovak politicians declined to invite Soviets to the Polish-Czechoslovak talks prior to the cessation (and not invasion) of Cieszyn Silesia. Halibutt 00:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Allied POWs

I don't think there is need for revert war-since I doubt anybody serious will dispute that Poland was part of the Allies since 1939 --Molobo 16:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Ponowna próba

Wymazania informacji o zbrodniach popełnionych przez żółnierzy niemieckich podczas Kampanii Wrześniowej, tym razem w artykule: http://en.wikipedia.org/German_17th_Infantry_Division --Molobo 22:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Dziękuję za pomoc w dyskusji --Molobo 15:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Solidarność

Once you told me you'd like to turn it into a FA. Still willing to give it a try?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 01:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

One step (month.. ;p) ahead of you at Talk:Solidarity#Name_-_move.3F. Note also the disambig at pl:Solidarność, and that the pl article is at pl:Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy Solidarność.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 01:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Powoli, powoli, ale idzie do przodu - z histori doszedłem już do 1997, został tylko para o AWS do roszerzenia. Wszelka pomoc mile widziana.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 04:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Stalin Society

[http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/index.html The Stalin Society was formed in 1991 to defend Stalin and his work on the basis of fact and to refute capitalist, revisionist, opportunist and Trotskyist propaganda directed against him.] ROTFLOL :) But on the other hand, this link is valuable to prove that there are those who deny Soviet guilt.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:33, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Kopernik

Proszę przeczytaj o Koperniku http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/PTJ/b/b58_031-035.pdf Można to sformułować jeszcze inaczej: stosunek do języka był przed XIX w. w Europie, w tym także w Polsce przedrozbiorowej, taki, jaki do dziś jeszcze jest we Francji. Państwo francuskie nie interesuje się tym, jakimi językami mówią w domu mieszkańcy Francji, we francuskich kwestionariuszach spisu ludności nie ma rozróż-nienia, jakie jest w polskich kwestionariuszach, w których się rozróżnia obywatel-stwo i narodowość. Sytuacja panująca w dawnej Rzeczypospolitej może być także przyrównywana do sytuacji, jaka jest dzisiaj w Szwajcarii. Większość Szwajcarów mówi po niemiecku, ale ktoś, kto w domu mówi po francusku, włosku czy retoromań-sku, jest równie dobrym Szwajcarem, jak ten, co mówi po niemiecku.W tym stanie rzeczy jest zrozumiałe, że do końca XVIII w. nie miano wątpliwości co do narodowości Kopernika. Kopernik urodził się, przeżył całe życie i zmarł w Pol-sce, zatem był Polakiem. Nawet król pruski Fryderyk II, który uczestniczył w pierw-szym rozbiorze Polski, wkrótce potem napisał w liście do Woltera, że jest rzeczą słuszną, żeby kraj, który wydał Kopernika, nie grzązł już dłużej w barbarzyństwie (Œuvres posthumes 1788, list z 11.12.1773 r.). Natomiast w XIX wieku Niemcy za-częli twierdzić, że Kopernik był Niemcem, i trwało to do roku 1945. Ale po II wojnie światowej zaszła pewna zmiana. W lectorium głównym Biblioteki Jagiellońskiej przejrzałem wszystkie encyklopedie i okazało się, że w niemal wszystkich encyklo-pediach, od Encyclopedia Americana i Encyclopaedia Britannica poczynając, a na encyklopediach włoskich skończywszy, jest napisane, że Kopernik był Polakiem. Pod tym względem wyjątek stanowią jedynie encyklopedie niemieckie (Der große Herderz r. 1954, Meyers enzyklopädisches Lexikon z r. 1975 oraz Brockhaus Enzyklopädiez r. 1990), a mianowicie w nich narodowość Kopernika została przemilczana. Tak więc po II wojnie światowej Niemcy nie twierdzą już, że Kopernik był Niemcem, ale albo jego narodowość przemilczają, albo powiadają, że był Europejczykiem.

Możesz przeczytać tam większą całość-jest dokładnie wyjaśnione dlaczego język nie ma znaczenia dla ustalania narodowości w tym przypadku. --Molobo 00:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

This is not vandalism, it is a content dispute. Stop reverting, as you are already in violation of the three-revert rule and could be blocked. -- Netoholic @ 15:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorki, something mi pojebałos'. Space Cadet 17:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Liberation

As to claim of liberation by Soviet Union-it itself admitted it was just a pretext: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/ns069.htm Then Molotov came to the political side of the matter and stated that the Soviet Government had intended to take the occasion of the further advance of German troops to declare that Poland was falling apart and that it was necessary for the Soviet Union, in consequence, to come to the aid of the Ukrainians and the White Russians "threatened" by Germany. This argument was to make the intervention of the Soviet Union plausible to the masses and at the same time avoid giving the Soviet Union the appearance of an aggressor.

This is from original copy of diplomatic exchange between SU and Reich. --Molobo 15:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Dan's misleading accusations

Hi Balcer, as to Dr.Dans suggestions, I kindly inform you that I never in my history on Wiki edited Kernavė article. It's just another of his misleading attacks on Polish contributors on Wiki. --Molobo 09:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC0

Nor did I ever say you edited the Kernavė article. It's just another example of your inability to follow simple English, or perhaps a belief that you are being persecuted ("his misleading attacks on Polish contibutors on Wiki"). Dr. Dan 23:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Balcer, I know you have followed the Panevezys talk page, ( saw your name there), can you, in the context of the discussion, explain your objection to Liublinas being added to the Lublin article (you rv'd it), or perhaps agreeing to removing Poniewież from the Panevėżys article? Dr. Dan 23:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Answered your question on my talk page. Dr. Dan 00:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

3RR on Frombork

Hi. I have listed Matthead for a 3RR on Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:Matthead. You are also mentioned, I just can't make up my mind if this is an revert. I any case, try to reduce your number of reverts, and feel free to comment on Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:Matthead -- Chris 73 | Talk 09:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Input, Please

Can you add or subtract anything from the discussion on Lysy's talk page about Taurage. Thanks, Dr. Dan 20:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

You might be interested

--Molobo 12:55, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Vote

Command completed. Ksenon 21:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, feel free to wrap it up in your own style if you like. From my last tally ;-) it was 11 valid votes for the PL version and 11 against it, however the PL option failed to meet an outright majority. There is general lack of consensus, with the PL/NON-NAT gaining over 2/3 of votes. How "opinion-making" this straw poll could be is pretty arbitrary. I do agree that my summary was a bit concise, kinda misses the point; do the honours if you like and post the official summary. Ksenon 04:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I just meant to contrast the tie and inherent lack of a majority, perhaps my choice of words wasnt too ingenious. I will post the summary today. Ksenon 05:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for verifying and posting the results, but the following seems a little superfluous: Summary by User:Balcer. I asked the originator of the vote User:Ksenon to post a summary, but it seems he cannot find the time and at one point suggested that I do it. (See User talk:Ksenon, User talk:Balcer). Balcer 22:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC) I'd suggest removing it, as it doesnt really pertain to form and is irrelevant to the vote results. Ksenon 22:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Balcer, no problem. I hav eno idea why I have not voted, frankly. I asked how should I vote, received answer and then.. I was somehow sure I _did_ vote. But you are right, of course. Szopen 15:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Please

Look in the article Renaissance in Poland a tag haas been made on it suggesting it isn't neutral. Explanation was given as : Contemporary Poland, before it brought in German settlers to urbanize it, could boast little more than a series of fortified cragie lumps with some mud-huts around them. --Molobo 21:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ciągle

Trwają próby wymazania informacji o zbrodniach w Złoczewie dokonanych przez German_17th_Infantry_Division. Jeśli możesz od czasu do czasu zerknąc na ten artykuł byłbym wdzięczny. --Molobo 17:52, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Panie Molobo, proszę po angielsku. Dr. Dan 18:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC) p.s I agree, "Ciągle", best describes your trolling and propagandizing.

Unprotection

Done. Please let me know if/when Wik comes back. Jayjg 01:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't notice your note. It is now semi-protected. Please let me know if he continues. Jayjg 17:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that there are no 3RR restrictions when it comes to reverting banned users; edits by banned users may be treated as pure vandalism. Also, I'm not just blocking his sockpuppets, I'm also blocking his open proxies, which will slow him down. Keep me informed though, he'll be back. Jayjg 19:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. And again, please keep in mind that you can revert him as many times as you like, there's no need to be concerned about 3RR violations when reverting a banned editor. Jayjg 17:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Please see this

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Russsian_claims_about_Warsaw_Uprising_1794 The author tries to put information from non-objective source as objective article. The source is from Imperial Russia regarding Polish uprising against its occupation. Imperial Russia was known for fabricating and being source of many antipolish fabrications. Because I didn't want to delete this(no blanking) I moved it to a proper article that would deal with claim. --Molobo 03:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed this already. I keep the Misplaced Pages talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board on my watchlist and check it regularly. If you make a note of something there, you don't need to also inform me about it on my talk page. Balcer 03:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Alexander Nevsky Cathedral, Warsaw

Hi, it is mentioned in http://pravoslavie.ru/cgi-bin/sykon/client/display.pl?sid=656&did=289 and http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/print.php?act=monitor&id=6546

Both sources were talking about transformation to the Roman-Catholic Harrison church of Святой Генрих (first source) or of Святой Хенрик - во втором случае. I was trying to re-engineer the name from Cyrillic and mixed-up. Thanks for correcting me abakharev 01:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Your recent discussions

I noticed your recent discussion with an anon user regarding issue of Polish and German relations. The anon stated one source of his views on one talk page, you might be interested:

The source is from

I recommend you look at the site and what ideology it represents. --Molobo 18:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Warto zobaczyć tą dyskusję

--Molobo 11:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

You

Forgot to sign yourself in discussion on the cathedral. --Molobo 16:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Btw

Thanks for excellent site, it has a large info on Kingdom of Poland established by Central Powers in which I have a certain interest. --Molobo 16:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Balcer 16:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

State-mongers

Hi, it's just the Russian text i saw uses "политиканы" not "политики". The latter means "politicians". The former implies a more negative connotation. The best translation I found was "state-mongers". There may be a better word, but politicans is a different word, that's why I didn't use it. --Irpen 00:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Renaming

Please take a look at User_talk:Piotrus#Renaming and comment if you want. --Irpen 19:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy Easter

Wesołych Świąt! Dr. Dan 04:04, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Welland Canal pictures

Hey,

I noticed your uploading of a couple of pictures of the third Welland Canal. I was wondering if you could also take a couple of shots of one of the earlier canals, located here, off Bradley Street in Thorold. I'm not sure if they are the remains of first or second canal locks; first canal's should be wooden as opposed to stone.

Thanks in advance, Qviri (talk) 15:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I see. I was hoping you were in the area more permanently. I'll try to get a digicam somewhere and make the trip myself, then :) --Qviri (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

RfC

As to your quote-related discussion (or rather a monologue), I don't think yet another RfC would change much here. Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Ghirlandajo succeeded in Ghirlandajo changing his ways for a week or two, but now his old behaviour has returned and yet another RfC is not likely to change more. How about yet another step in that direction? //Halibutt 16:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I have learned that it is almost impossible to effectively punish anyone on Misplaced Pages for rude behavior. As Ghirlandajo's case illustrates, the people involved usually make a qualified apology and then sooner or later go back to their old ways. However, inserting incorrect information backed by misleading references is a different matter altogether, I hope. So, it might be worthwhile to pursue this. I will give Ghirlandajo's some time to reconsider, but if he continues to revert and does not explain himself on his talk page, RFC might be the way to go. It would be good to find the original quote to see how badly it has been distorted. Balcer 17:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, BTW, a friendly ghost has turned my attention to this link. So AAMoF both RfC and RfA steps were already taken to some extent. But you're right that this case is a tad different, since so far he did not call anyone names in that particular discussion (which however does not apply to edit history). //Halibutt 18:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Since we are talking about Ghirla, I don't think that anything less then full RfArb would force him to admit he is wrong. Perhaps asking this question at Misplaced Pages:Verifiability may be prudent in terms of has similar incident occured before (i.e. has a (very active) user been penalized for providing false data).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Talking about quotes, what do you think of that one?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The general policy should be to avoid the use of quotes. What do they mean, after all? Everyone, if they are human, says stupid, irrelevant, or poorly formulated things on a regular basis. The same holds for any head of state. Quotes belong on Wikiquote, and possibly on the biography pages of the people who said them, but almost nowhere else. One exemption could be applied to official speeches which formulate policy, but even there one can simply state what the policy was, without quoting the leader.

Anyway, the use of quotes obtained from secondary sources should be avoided in general. The basic problem there is often the fact that the quote has been translated twice, diminishing its accuracy, which of course in a quote is absolutely vital (otherwise, what is the point of including it?). Now this I really would make official Misplaced Pages policy: quote can only be included if it is available in the original language from a primary source and if its translation can be verified. Balcer 20:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Stop deleting my comments

Please respect freedom of speach and refrain from deleting my comments on the Copernicus side, thx! (If you have no sence for irony just do not read my statements)

Misplaced Pages is not a place for such comments. Please make comments relevant to the article, and not general inflammatory statements. Many readers of Misplaced Pages don't have English as their first language and might not appreciate your subtle sense of irony. Balcer 13:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

And you are the one who decides whether a comment is adequate or not? I do not think so! Either you refrain from deleting my comments or I will ask an administrator to ask you to obey the rules.

Just make sure to ask User:Kusma to obey the rules as well. Balcer 14:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Is deleting comments part of the new "positive dictatorship policy" which is so hip in Poland these days?

This is an encyclopedia, not a forum. Try to understand that, and don't make inflammatory comments in a major article. Keep in mind that most Misplaced Pages users don't have English as their first language, and might take your comments literally as an anti-German rant. Balcer 15:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I have not ammended the major article but merely contributed a statement to the discussion page. As for anti-German statements, I have the impression that I am in excellent company on the Copernicus discussion side.

If you want to make serious contributions, please get a username and start right away. You might find your comments are given more consideration if you are not anonymous. If you think the Copernicus article is slanted the wrong way, start making changes to it (this is what Misplaced Pages is all about). But of course try to read the previous discussion and think hard before disturbing the hard-fought compromise that has been reached for this article. Anyway, making inflammatory comments that don't lead to anything and might be misinterpreted is a bad way to contribute to Misplaced Pages. Indeed the Copernicus article has seen some controversy and acrimonious debate, but adding fuel to that fire is not a solution. Balcer 15:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, you are probably right. I just had the impression that the whole discussion about Copernicus` ancestry has degenerated into a mere satisfaction of respective Polish and German national vanities, and hence I thought a bit of irony would be good in order to bring both sides back to reality. However please do not take it personally.