Revision as of 06:22, 23 July 2012 editVolunteer Marek (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers94,084 edits →Since you asked← Previous edit | Revision as of 17:06, 23 July 2012 edit undoRexxS (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers43,075 edits →Since you asked: you're welcomeNext edit → | ||
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::Also, according to Greg, the part of his statement from the (private) email which you cut off is precisely the part where he says he won't be writing anything about this for the Examiner. The part you quote is supposedly just a rhetorical lead in (As in "I was thinking about doing x, but I decided against it - you cut off the "I decided against it" part) If Greg is telling the truth, then you're not just being a hypocrite but also purposefully and dishonestly misrepresenting Greg. | ::Also, according to Greg, the part of his statement from the (private) email which you cut off is precisely the part where he says he won't be writing anything about this for the Examiner. The part you quote is supposedly just a rhetorical lead in (As in "I was thinking about doing x, but I decided against it - you cut off the "I decided against it" part) If Greg is telling the truth, then you're not just being a hypocrite but also purposefully and dishonestly misrepresenting Greg. | ||
::May I suggest that given all that you're not really suited for the role of WMUK trustee, where considerations of lack-of-hypocrisy and lack-of-dishonesty are important? You may wish to step down and be replaced.] 06:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC) | ::May I suggest that given all that you're not really suited for the role of WMUK trustee, where considerations of lack-of-hypocrisy and lack-of-dishonesty are important? You may wish to step down and be replaced.] 06:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC) | ||
::: Sure Marek, you're most welcome to come and stand against me at the next WMUK elections where we can contrast your record in trolling with my contributions to the Wikimedia projects. I call bullshit on your claim of privilege of privacy when someone with Kohs' track record on smearing Wikipedians starts taunting yet another victim. If Kohs doesn't want to have his involvement in harassing Fae made known to all, he needs to stop the harassment, not pretend he can continue and then have his chums scream "privacy" when he's exposed. The threat to go chasing after external sources like Twitter accounts clearly illustrates Kohs' disregard for basic human standards of decency. I quoted an extremely short snippet - would you like to quote the entire email so everyone can see just how snide and malicious he can be? --] (]) 17:06, 23 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction. I wasn't the one who published allegedly private material on other sites. I wasn't the one who allegedly published private photographs to Commons. I wasn't the one who edited Misplaced Pages using various names connected to those allegedly embarrassing activities. And that's just for openers. | :Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction. I wasn't the one who published allegedly private material on other sites. I wasn't the one who allegedly published private photographs to Commons. I wasn't the one who edited Misplaced Pages using various names connected to those allegedly embarrassing activities. And that's just for openers. |
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Welcome, correspondents
If you're here because I deleted an article you think should be undeleted, please read this first and remember--Most of the time, I didn't write the text that appears in the deletion summary.
N.B. I don't respond well to either fawning or abuse. Talk to me like a peer, assume good faith, and you'll find I reciprocate in my helpfulness.
Functionary Assistance My ability to help as a checkuser, oversighter, or arbitrator in individual matters is currently limited by my positional and non-Misplaced Pages obligations. For non-trivial assistance, especially that which requires extensive consideration of private correspondence, you will likely get a faster response by asking another functionary.
Position Essays may help you understand my point of view with regard to...
Administrator Goals
Doing my best to improve the tiny little wedge in the top center:
Unblock on hold
There's an unblock request at User talk:Worsnupd for a block you placed on 10 March 2011. The user did some vandalism, but claims to have grown up in the last year and a bit. My inclination is to try a WP:ROPE unblock, and keep an eye on the user fro a while with a view to quickly reblocking if necessary. However, you gave the block reason as "Abusing multiple accounts", and I would prefer to know what other accounts were involved before making a decision. I don't suppose you have much memory of the circumstances after 16 months, but if you can let me have any relevant information I will be grateful. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- I really do not. If I ever catch an identified sockmaster, I always tag the sock accounts appropriately. In this case, it was probably just editing while logged out. I have no objections at all to you giving him another go. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 14:35, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
note...
There is a request you may wish to comment on at RFPP: Artforum. (I notice that the relevant edits were not simply RD'd.) --j⚛e decker 18:09, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- Replied there, thanks. Jclemens (talk) 18:13, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Just for the record...
Not having jumped in on Noetica's desysopping straw poll one way or the other doesn't necessarily mean the "community" agrees with him.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm dealing with a bazillion things on-wiki, and the reference is just not clicking for me. Can you clarify? Jclemens (talk) 14:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, Perth remedies, right? Gotcha. Jclemens-public (talk) 18:59, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Couple threads that may be of interest
Hello, I hope you do not mind being contacted in this manner; the rules of engagement here are not clear, but I wanted to quickly draw your attention to a couple threads on the FLG 2 case. It would be encouraging to know that this material has been read and considered, since they were written to address questions that yourself and others raised on the PD page (specifically on the AGF issue). I don't want to behave in a manner that is viewed as breaching some unspoken rules of propriety, but it's not really clear what material was read and considered (in the interest of fairness, I would of course hope that whole evidence page has been digested).
Regards, Homunculus (duihua) 20:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
The Legend of Korra organization RfC
Hi, I'm contacting you becaused you expressed an opinion in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Legend of Korra (Book 2). Because it appears likely that the AfD will not end with deletion, I've set up a request for comment (RfC) on the talk page of the article about the series about how to organize the topic into subarticles. If you are interested, I'd appreciate it if you would add your opinion in that RfC. Regards, Sandstein 06:53, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I'm a bit too busy to contribute this week. For anyone watching here, my general thoughts on notable fictional franchises are that 1) All former articles should end up being redirects, so no one ever finds a dead link externally and 2) All appropriate content should end up in articles of reasonable size which are logically organized. Jclemens (talk) 07:07, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
A TPS offer...
Now that the most cumulatively stressful three cases I've dealt with in my ArbCom tenure have closed, I want to extend an offer to my TPS'es: Let me know what GA candidate articles you have to review, and I'll try to get to a few of them before the next storm hits. Last time, I did a bunch of GANs myself, but I prefer to switch up how I keep in touch with the day-to-day process of encylopedia building. This is a time-limited offer based on my current real-world availability, so let me know what you've already nominated, or are prepared to nominate. Since I'm not a fan of quick-fails, and I'd actually rather read imperfect articles rather than superbly polished ones, don't worry about minor imperfections. I really prefer the GA review process to be a collaborative, back-and-forth process where the reviewer actually coaches the nominator to greater (or more rapid) success than he or she would have independently achieved. So... what shall I review for you? Jclemens (talk) 05:58, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Casting Crowns (album)/GA1
I fixed the two issues noted; I honestly thought there would be something I missed, particularly since I tried a different heading organization on this one. I spent a couple weeks working on it in my sandbox but I thought I would have missed something.
- As for reception, I was surprised at just how positively it was received at the time of release - I knew it was well-received critically, but debut albums rarely get nearly unanimously positive reviews and Casting Crowns gets a lot of critique nowadays for their sound. Toa Nidhiki05 10:33, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- GA doesn't mean perfect, it means GOOD. :-) Seriously, one of the enemies of the GA process is scope creep. Things don't need to be impeccable or impossible to improve to be a GA: if you want to try for an FA without previous feedback... THAT would be an awesome feat. Jclemens (talk) 15:33, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, I guess so. I enjoy collaboration but there are very few editors in my primary topic area.
- Even still, I thought the Casting Crowns article has FA potential but I wanted to do GA and peer review first, at least to work out any kinks in the article. Plus, I'm in WikiCup and I desperately need the GA points. I might not be able to nominate it for a while since an article I had been pushing for FA failed due to lack of discussion, so I'd have to wait to nominate this one even though it is in very, very good shape. Toa Nidhiki05 18:47, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Since you asked
- "To whom are you addressing that last?"
Here's my response:
- "Ashley, I've been thinking about publishing another story on Examiner about your potential banning on Misplaced Pages by the Arbitration Committee. Then, I'm seeing WebCitation pages related to a Twitter account called ..." - Kohs, 20 July 2012.
If you can't see the damage that can be caused to actual human beings by failing to protect a reasonable degree of privacy, then I'd suggest you're not really suited to acting in a role where those sort of considerations are important. You may wish to step down and allow us to elect a replacement Arbitrator who is able to display a little more empathy with real people. --RexxS (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Did you just post another person's private email without their permission? Is this suppose to reflect your genuine concerns about other people's privacy? Or is it "privacy for those I like, no privacy for those I don't like" kind of thing? Or did you get permission from Greg?
- Also, according to Greg, the part of his statement from the (private) email which you cut off is precisely the part where he says he won't be writing anything about this for the Examiner. The part you quote is supposedly just a rhetorical lead in (As in "I was thinking about doing x, but I decided against it - you cut off the "I decided against it" part) If Greg is telling the truth, then you're not just being a hypocrite but also purposefully and dishonestly misrepresenting Greg.
- May I suggest that given all that you're not really suited for the role of WMUK trustee, where considerations of lack-of-hypocrisy and lack-of-dishonesty are important? You may wish to step down and be replaced.VolunteerMarek 06:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- Sure Marek, you're most welcome to come and stand against me at the next WMUK elections where we can contrast your record in trolling with my contributions to the Wikimedia projects. I call bullshit on your claim of privilege of privacy when someone with Kohs' track record on smearing Wikipedians starts taunting yet another victim. If Kohs doesn't want to have his involvement in harassing Fae made known to all, he needs to stop the harassment, not pretend he can continue and then have his chums scream "privacy" when he's exposed. The threat to go chasing after external sources like Twitter accounts clearly illustrates Kohs' disregard for basic human standards of decency. I quoted an extremely short snippet - would you like to quote the entire email so everyone can see just how snide and malicious he can be? --RexxS (talk) 17:06, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction. I wasn't the one who published allegedly private material on other sites. I wasn't the one who allegedly published private photographs to Commons. I wasn't the one who edited Misplaced Pages using various names connected to those allegedly embarrassing activities. And that's just for openers.
- I wasn't the one who used Flickr in a way that was dubbed "flicker washing", or engaged in other activities that brought scrutiny on my older Commons accounts and uploads. I wasn't the one who made a partial disclosure of my history to a then-arbitrator and now-retired former ombudsman which misled them to not oppose an RfA under a new name. I wasn't the one who got myself elected to WMUK, or WCA, knowing that all these skeletons were in my closet and deceptions were in my past. I wasn't the one who had a conversation with a paid WMF staffer at an event where my attendance was paid for by a WMF-related charity of which I was currently an officer, and, during that conversation, asked that WMF staffer to get the committee to intervene and change the outcome in a pending disciplinary process against me. I wasn't the one who also instructed a Commons admin to not cooperate with an Arbcom investigation. I wasn't the one who lied about my interactions with the WMF staffer and Commons admin.
- Oh, and I wasn't the one who cried "harassment!" at every opportunity, all the while reverting homophobic slurs back on to my talk page.
- So I agree, there's a lot of blame for what's happened to Fae. Unfortunately for Fae, the blame seems to fall most directly and squarely on him. There was clearly harassment, of course, but while a certain amount of errors could be attributed to legitimate privacy concerns, the long-term pattern of deception aimed at the community in general and specifically those investigating complaints against him is simply not excusable based on real or imagined harassment.
- Likewise, there are plenty of ways to avoid scrutiny of one's past actions, but they are not compatible with future editing of an open, collaborative, reputation-based project like this. For now, Fae has a six-month hiatus in which he can attempt to deal with whatever real privacy concerns may exist, before an appeal. You see, the committee has given Fae room to actually deal with his privacy, which is a far more humane and privacy-supporting outcome than what Fae had chosen for himself to this point. Jclemens (talk) 21:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I hear what you protest you are not. For what it's worth, Fae only asked a WMF staffer for advice about his legitimate privacy concerns that you seemed so keen to be trampling over. My take on what happened is worth at least as much as your version, since mine is no more than second-hand. Fae wasn't lying, and for the sake of decent treatment of others, you really ought to think twice before you make that kind of accusation with nothing more than your own opinion to back it up.
- On the other hand, you are the one who wants to see all of Fae's previous accounts laid out in public for parasites like Kohs to use as leads when he goes digging for more speculative smearing. Is it too much to expect an arbitrator to at least avoid acting as an enabler for that? --RexxS (talk) 21:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- The other side of that conversation came from the horse - so to speak - so Jonathan's version is first hand. And I have to say that if Fae had been honest about other accounts to start with, we wouldn't be here now. Its the attempt to keep a lid on it that has blown up in his face far worse than anything he actually did to start with. If Fae really has anything still private in real life, not connected to the project, that revealing another sock account would expose, his best bet has always been to email Arbcom and explain the problem. Which I can confirm he hasn't done so far, he's just tried to find a way to conceal the information from everyone. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:57, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Regardless of who initiated the conversation between Fae, a WMF-related charity chapter officer, and the WMF staffer, the entire topic of Fae's impending sanctions was inappropriate. A hallway "can you scratch my back?" conversation provides unparallelled opportunities for misuse of influence. A random user "asking X for advice" is very different than the WCA chair-elect doing so; the random user has no way to benefit or harm the Foundation any more than anyone else in the world, while the WCA chair-elect has any number of reasons why a WMF staffer might be inclined to intervene on his behalf. It appears as though a number of commentators just haven't had sufficient real-world business ethics and conflict of interest training to understand why the minute the topic came up in that conversation, banning Fae from the project became the only appropriate response consistent with open and fair dealing.
- As far as public disclosure goes, I don't really have a preference between full disclosure and retirement. Fae's the one who has to judge the best way to clean up the mess he's made. The ball, with a six month built-in delay, is in his court. Jclemens (talk) 22:14, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Jclemens, I think your statements above should have been included in the "official" decision. Cla68 (talk) 22:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I can only speak for myself, rather than for the entire committee. The above perspective is not shared by all of the committee, certainly not in nuance and detail. I think we all agree with Elen that the entire situation was escalated regrettably through repeated poor choices, though that could be said of most ArbCom cases. Jclemens (talk) 22:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Jclemens, I think your statements above should have been included in the "official" decision. Cla68 (talk) 22:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) With all due respect, Elen - and you know I have considerable respect for you - Jclemens was not present for the conversation and his assertions can never be first-hand. I have spoken with Fae, but I have heard nothing but silence from Philippe, so I hope you will excuse me for drawing my own conclusions. I do accept that you may have unstated reasons to draw your own conclusions. Given the problems of leakage from ArbCom, I would have preferred to see Fae disclose everything that had privacy implications to a mutually acceptable respected member of the community (a bureaucrat has already offered to help if requested). Nevertheless, if you feel that it is important he discloses directly to ArbCom, I'm prepared to trust your judgement and I have now offered him my strong recommendation to email you. Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 22:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)