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August 2

Olympic pools heated?

Are the swimming pools in the Olympics heated? Bubba73 03:18, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

FINA regulation 3.14 for Olympic events is the same as 2.11, which states the temperature should be between 25 and 28 degrees. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

If 78-80 degree Fahrenheit is considered heated, then Yes.

http://www.solarattic.com/files/DictofTe.pdf (page 2 from here). Futurist110 (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

That is 77F-82.4F, still a little cool, I think. Bubba73 03:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Compared to what, Bubba? If a pool requires any heating to make it be a certain temperature, then ipso facto it's heated. Whether that's an individual's idea of cool or warm is a different question. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 05:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you saying 77 Fahrenheit is cool? When I was a child, I slept in a soggy shoebox, and had to eat ground glass for dinner, both ways, up hill. μηδείς (talk) 08:54, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

That actually seems too warm, to me. That would be fine for just splashing around, but those athletes are working hard, so cooler water would probably be appreciated, and keep them from overheating. StuRat (talk) 09:06, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Public baths in Britain often (used to?) have a digital temperature read-out near the entrance (I'm talking about Olympic-style straight-up-and-down swimming-in-lanes pools here, not the 'fun-park' type with flumes and jacuzzis) and my recollection from my childhood is that the 'norm' was somewhere around 21 centigrade (70F), and it'd often be nearer 19 (66F). If it got up to 23 (73.5) you'd be looking forward to a nice warm swim, so 25-28 seems like bloody luxury! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:26, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Apparently performance levels for elite swimmers go up with temperature. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8350604 - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

To a point. (While swimmers might move pretty fast at 100°C, they would stop moving fairly soon.) StuRat (talk) 09:33, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

26 degrees is the standard for competition pools. HiLo48 (talk) 00:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Unheated pools in England are uncomfortably cold even in the height of summer. I've been in an unheated pool in August which was actually painful on entry and while breathing out was ok, breathing in again was a bit of a problem. Alansplodge (talk) 12:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

human potential/development

*Dear Sir or Madam, I am from the uk and I am intrigued by the programmes that you run out in the usa. For instansce, there is a true account of a young man in his teens who wanted to become a basketball player.He was only four foot and a half in height. The coaches, seeing how passionate he was about becoming a basketball player, decided to take him through a training programme. By the end of four months he had become six feet in height: the ideal height to be a basketball player. There was somekind of mindpower technique involved in the programme. Could you please expand more on this,please? I never hear about programmes like this over in the uk. Is it something that is very common in the usa?212.219.231.1 (talk) 11:12, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, this is Misplaced Pages, the encyclopaedia anyone can edit. We don't run any sort of sports programmes. You may have come across one of our articles about the subject. Secondly, no "mindpower technique" is going to increase anyone's height by 18 inches, if at all. Can you refer us to where you saw this "true account"? Rojomoke (talk) 12:57, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

:I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP is under the misapprehension that we run sports programmes. I take the 'you run out in the States' to be indicative of an assumption that Misplaced Pages is primarily US-based. 77.97.198.48 (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm also rather skeptical of this supposed "true story". From the sound of it it sounds like it's either greatly exaggerated or complete fiction. --Martyk7 (talk) 17:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

LOL! and a gold star to boot. μηδείς (talk) 05:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

FWIW the OP has an interesting editing history. Richard Avery (talk) 10:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Most useful free sites out there

What are the most useful free sites out there besides Misplaced Pages and its sister projects and YouTube? Futurist110 (talk) 19:53, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

You've been hanging around here long enough to know that we cannot possibly answer that question without knowing your areas of interest, at the very least. What's useful to me might be complete rubbish to you, and vice-versa. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 20:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Define "useful"? I find www.imdb.com and www.allmusic.com to be useful for pop culture stuff, www.tvtropes.com some people like. Google is fantastically useful, and free. If you like sports, ESPN.com is good, and some historical sites like baseball-reference.com and its sister sites are good for American sports research. I'm an American football nut (the kind with the oblong brown ball) and one of my favorite free sites is The Helmet Project which is a great example of a very narrow and very deep project. It also depends on what you mean by "free". Do you mean free as in speech or free as in beer? --Jayron32 20:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

By useful, I meant useful for any area of interest, whether I or someone else is interested in this area. By free, I meant a website that anyone can access at any time without ever paying for it. As for my fields of interest, I am very interested in United States, Israeli, and Jewish demographics. I am also interested in history, politics, current events, and especially current and historical maps (including those pertaining to demographics and demographic data). You can look at my Misplaced Pages profile for a little more details. Futurist110 (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

If you like maps, there's a great repository of digitally scanned historical maps through the University of Texas library system. I've used it for years, and it is a great site. See here for the home page. --Jayron32 02:59, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I mean free as in gratis, meaning for no cost. Futurist110 (talk) 21:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Haaretz(www.haaretz.com) is a free Israeli current events site that I've found to be pretty reliable. --M@rēino 21:54, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Remember: The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions. I would say this question falls into that bucket. RudolfRed (talk) 23:15, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

He's looking for helpful reference sites. I would say that is exactly what the reference desk is for. --Jayron32 03:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Based on your preferences... I'll comment on your talk page. --Activism1234 23:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I've found Weather Underground's Braille Page to be useful in getting my current local US weather and forecast fast, without ads and animated maps wasting my time (it's not really Braille, it's just easy for screen readers to handle). The Weather Channel purchased Weather Underground recently, so it may have all that crap added soon, but I hope not. StuRat (talk) 04:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Is there a free website similar to Social Explorer? Social Explorer is amazing, but a large part of it is not free. :( Futurist110 (talk) 04:53, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

WormBase is the most useful free website in my utterly objective opinion. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:36, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

WormBase talks about worms, though, not American (human) demographics. Futurist110 (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Someguy1221's reply was I think indented at your original question (it gets confusing because of your poor followup indenting) and in any case appears to be directed at your original question. I don't know whether they saw your clarification, but either way you can't exactly blame them for answering your original question, particularly since, at others have said, you've been here long enough to know what an incredibly poor question it was. Nil Einne (talk) 15:29, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Indira Gandhi

Nehru went to Gandhi since Gandhi was his mentor. I also understand Gandhi adopted Feroze just to avoid the inter religious marriage and that is how he got Gandhi surname. They are related in that sense.

Was Indira Gandhi related to Mohandas Gandhi? --108.206.7.65 (talk) 23:22, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Not that I can tell. Gandhi is a pretty common surname in India. She was the daughter of Jawaharlal Nehru. Nehru was not happy his daughter was marrying Feroze Gandhi, and he sought Mohandas Gandhi's help in dissuading them. Just why he went to Mohandas is not clear, but there's no family connection between Feroze and Mohandas mentioned in the article. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 23:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Nope. They had the same last name, but weren't related. --Activism1234 23:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

No, of course not. She was daughter of Jawaharlal Nehru, as told above, the first Prime Minister of India. Nehru was a brahmin. She got the surname "Gandhi" after marriage to a man named Feroze Gandhi. But even Feroze was not a born 'Gandhi', which is a Bania caste. He was, I think, a Parsi and was forced to embrace Hinduism on the condition that he wanted to marry the famous Hindu aristocrat's daughter. "Gandhi" was the most dignified and holy surname then ( as it is now ). Many men who had to embrace Hinduism, through Shudhi mostly, used to acquire this particular holy name.124.253.94.87 (talk) 00:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Not sure why you say "No, of course not". Without knowing the story you just gave, it would be quite reasonable to suppose that two Gandhis who knew each other quite well were related. Quite a few of them obviously are. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:24, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

That depends on what exactly you mean when you say "related". In the OP question the terms means "related by blood", which was definitely not the case, as even a kid in India will tell you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.92.103 (talk) 00:38, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

How do you know that's what the OP meant? I was hoping to discover some familial relationship between her husband Feroze and Mahatma Gandhi, such as uncle-nephew. That would make her related by marriage to Mahatma, in my book. You've now made it clear that was not the case. I was simply wondering why you came out with "Of course not". The OP asked a reasonable question, and I've known various people who always just assumed that they were in fact direct blood relatives. (Not everyone in the world is lucky enough to be a kid in India.) I was actually very surprised to find no denial of this in our articles. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Everyone is related if you go back far enough. Was she a close relative of Mohandas Gandhi? As other users here have already said, No, she wasn't. Futurist110 (talk) 01:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The bite response by 124 was unnecessary and wrong. It's a totally reasonable assumption to have made and the question was appropriate for this page. --Dweller (talk) 10:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

August 3

Name for new company

Dear Partners,

can you please suggest me some unique manes for my new training institute in India. this is software training institute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.22.1 (talk) 04:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The Sam Houston Institute of Technology. Farmer's University of Central Kansas. --Jayron32 04:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

What type of training will it do ? Where in India is it located ? Is there anybody you want to name it after ? (Gandhi is always good, if you're in a Hindu area.) StuRat (talk) 04:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The Robert Clive Centre for Software Excellence. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 04:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

"Effect Training". I arrived at this by generating ten random nouns, and ignoring the concrete ones ("Sock Training"), the negative ones ("Shame Training"), and the ones with overtones of operant conditioning ("Reward Training"). There is apparently a "Visual Effect Training" institute, VFX, in Pune, teaching game programming: other than that, the name "Effect Training" appears reasonably unique, and it is suitably vague, and inspirational. It can also be read in the imperative mood, interpreting "Effect" as a verb.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:07, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm very disappointed in you all for not answering the question. The finest manes were of course those of late-eighties German footballers. Henry 14:30, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Though not unique. I recommend reverse mohawks with pigtails on one side, and dreads on the other, held together with pink ribbons and 3-inch clothespins. I get a royalty for this right?-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 06:09, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

To OP, this isn't the place to ask that. Company names depend on a lot of factors and is very important to the success of whatever business you're in. It's not something you get by asking random people on the internet.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 06:09, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Using your surname in the title of your company is very popular across all types of business. Fashion brands are almost all named for their designed (Calvin Klein, Paul Smith, Armani etc.). In engineering a lot of car brands are based on people's names (e.g. Ford, Ferrari), design consultancies, legal firms, training businesses - it's really very common across all industries. Similarly common is using the home-town/founding location as part of your business title. ny156uk (talk) 09:49, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

In the US, some private schools use a name of a town (Stanford, Boston) for example to lend prestige, and vaguely imply a nonexistent affiliation with some prestigious college. There is also Columbia College in Chicago, unaffiliated with Columbia University in New York. Another route is to use the public domain name of a notable dead person: "Faraday Institute," "Edison institute," or "Tesla Institute" assuming those are not already in use in your country. Edison (talk) 20:27, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The passionate shepherd to his love.

I have been asked to read this Christopher Marlowe poem at a forthcoming wedding and am happy to do so. But given that Marlowe was a contemporary of William Shakespeare the style of "olde" English is 16th century and myself and the congregation will struggle with it. Does anyone know how I can hear it being spoken by a competent speaker more familiar with that style. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.229.241 (talk) 09:21, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the poem here it doesn't seem to be written in 16th century English. The words are simple and the rhymes will benefit from some practice read-throughs. My advice would be to read it evenly and slower than you might think comfortable. So many speeches and poem readings are spoiled because the nerves of the speaker or reader force an unnatural pace by which the listeners cannot catch the words and meaning. Listen to this for as good an example as you'd want to hear. Good luck. Richard Avery (talk) 09:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

In those days lots of lyric poetry was intended to be sung rather than recited, and that probably applies to that poem. If you have the musical skills, you should think about finding a way to sing it. Even if not, singing it to yourself, with some random melody, will give you a feel for how to recite it effectively. Looie496 (talk)17:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

In fact a whole bunch of people have written music for that poem, including P. D. Q. Bach. Looie496 (talk) 17:14, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Also you can find literally dozens of versions on Youtube, some recited and some sung. Looie496 (talk) 17:20, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

As the OP here, I want to sincerely thank all the above respondents, especially Richard and Looie. I did find some recitals on YouTube which were most helpful and reassuring in that my own recorded attempts were not too far from those portrayed there. So thanks folks, I am now more confident about making my "speech". I also learned a lot about the contemporaniousness between Marlowe and Will Shakespeare, even to discovering there is a school of thought that suggests they were one and the same person, with Marlowe being "conveniently" killed off at the tender age of 29 after allegedly offending the Privy Council of the day. Convenient for Shakespeare if he was actually responsible for causing that offence methinks. But I would ask Richard why he suspects that the poem itself is not apparently written in 16th Century English. All the references I have found suggest quite strongly that the poem is authentically late 16th Century. But thanks anyway. I am sure the wedding reading will be fantastic after following your tips. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 22:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes it was written at the turn of the 16th Century, but the English isn't too far removed from modern English. Many people seem to think that because something is 400 years old then it must be incomprehensible to us, but it's not. Where I grew up in the Black Country, people still speak a dialect that sounds very much like some of the speeches in Shakespeare, those made by the "base" characters such as Mistress Quickly or Sir John Falstaff. Marlowe's verse is more akin to Shakespeare's sonnets, or a speech made by a major character such as Henry V or Iago. (As an aside, I have heard poetry from the 20th century read at family occasions in a very stilted fashion, suggestion no preparation was done by the family member beforehand. That was offensive. The very fact that you are taking your duties so seriously will mean your efforts will be appreciated.) --TammyMoet (talk) 07:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I commented that it didn't seem to be written in 16th century English because I was surprised by how modern the language appears. I was expecting something more ... er ... 16th century. I don't doubt it, just surprised by it. Richard Avery (talk) 07:18, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

The version most commonly seen on the net seems to be the one in Palgrave's Golden Treasury of 1875, which has modernised the spellings to 19th century standards. An earlier version can be seen here - although the words are the same, the spelling is distinctly odd to modern eyes, for example: "Sheepheards feede theyr flocks". Alansplodge (talk) 12:21, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

How to find Committee against Torture decisions

Hi,

I quickly browsed and searched the website of the Committee against Torture, and I also googled a few keywords, but I didn't find anywhere the CAT decision of 17 January 2012 about Azerbaijan mentioned here (I get an error message when I follow the link to un.org given on the Lifos page). I found it neither on the decisions page given in the WP article nor on Refworld. Any idea?

Thanks. Apokrif (talk) 16:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I found this (communication No. 374/2009) but with a slightly different date (17 January 2012 seems to be the date of publication, not decision). Apokrif (talk) 15:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Condom

What is difference between regular and dotted condom ? GiantBluePanda (talk) 19:59, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The dots are "for her pleasure". Someguy1221 (talk) 20:33, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

But, What are dots ? GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

More latex in a pattern around the condom. Do a Google image search and you'll see examples. Dismas| 22:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

sensitive articles

I dont know if this is already asked before or where i can find an article that discusses this concern, but do you think some articles here in wikipedia just helps give an idea on how to do some criminal work, like the money laundering article. 203.112.82.128 (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, but the police can read the articles too. Hiding knowledge is very rarely the way to make the world a better place. HiLo48 (talk) 22:53, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't even worry about criminals who need to base their activities on wikipedia articles. It's the ones who don't we should be concerned about. Hot Stop 04:14, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

It's not as if you can't get the information easily elsewhere. Plus they're not detailed how-to guides. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:18, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

No, not as detailed as the CCTV clips of store/service station armed hold-ups we see every night of the week on the TV news. I'm sure a lot of people think "That looks easy, I'm gonna try it". -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Every time I see one of those I think to myself that, if I was going to rob that store, the first thing I would do is disable the CCTV. (Whoops, did I just give advice to criminals, or are they too dumb to read this anyway?) HiLo48 (talk) 23:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

True story: a nefarious friend of mine did just that. Unfortunately he forgot to cover the camera first and so the local rag printed the last picture taken by the CCTV camera, which had been sent to the controlling computer... --TammyMoet (talk) 08:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Disabling cameras isn't always so easy. There can be many of them, each covering the others, so they film you as you disable the others. They may also have hidden cameras, and you can't disable the ones you can't find. If they are smart, they also send the recordings somewhere off-site as they are recorded, so they can't be deleted. (And presumably severing the communications line will set off alarms.) StuRat (talk) 08:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

August 4

Are Ivanovich and Johnson the same last name?

Based on my knowledge of Russian, I'd say Yes since Ivan = John and ovich = son. Am I correct? Futurist110 (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

They have similar origins, yes, but I would be careful in translating names. The translated version would not be acceptable on any official form, for example, as it would not be the name appearing on the passport or ID card of the individual. As a linguist, I am sick and tired of hearing people say "What's my name in ", because it's just a gibberish and useless question. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 11:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

They mean the same thing. But they are not the same last name — there is no context in which you could present them as being synonymous. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

More specifically, while Ivan and John are cognate, descended from the Hebrew name Yohanan, -son and -ovich are synonomous, but not cognate, since they did not evolve from the same root. One could potentially describe the words as calques, although I seriously doubt there is any evidence that they were deliberately copied from each other or some third source. I have to agree with KägeTorä that translating the names of others is fruitless, although individuals obviously take on adapted names for themselves in different linguistic contexts, for purposes such as ease of pronunciation, or marketing, and so on. μηδείς (talk) 17:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

To make the point clearer, I don't think anyone named Joseph would consider "Giuseppe" their name. Mingmingla (talk) 18:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

My world collapsed when I discovered that the person with the (to me) exotic sounding name of Giuseppe Verdi was really Joe Green. HiLo48 (talk) 18:18, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

It's hard to imagine a 19th century Italian composer as a defensive lineman for the Pittsburgh Steelers.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 18:35, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

In the mid-90s there was a journeyman F1 driver with the fantastic name of Giovanni Lavaggi - Johnny Carwash - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

How about Bedřich Smetana = Fred Sour Cream. Or Montserrat Caballé = Black Mountain Horse. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:58, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

This one I'll never understand, and it's English: Dick Trickle Mingmingla (talk) 22:16, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Joey Buttafuoco: Joseph Throw-fire. No Misplaced Pages articles for people with this name, but "Buttacavoli" means "Throw cauliflowers". And Isoroku Yamamoto's personal name (五十六) means "56".--Shirt58 (talk) 02:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

And I share a birthday with Pietro Filippo Scarlatti—or is that Peter Scarlett, a British diplomat?  dalahäst  19:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

There's also Pakistan's own Biggus Dickus, Akbar Zeb. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:00, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I don't get your point, Mingmingla. I use the Spanish version of my name in Spanish conversation--Spanish speakers often mistake one of the consonants in my name for another and misinterpret it entirely, sort of like hearing me say my name is Maddie and getting the response, "Yes, Mary." Someone who insisted in China or Japan on being called Frank would be sorely disappointed. All of my elder relatives had both their birth names and their "American" names. Of course, if one non-Italian American starts calling another non-Italian American Giuseppe out of the blue it will be seen as odd, kidding or offensive. But not if they are in Italy or some similar context. The bottom line is that the choice is up to the individual as to what he wants other people to call him, and not all people have a problem with assimilating to their circumstances. μηδείς (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I take your point that people can adapt their name for appropriate circumstance, but that doesn't make it the same name. You can use an adaptation that matches the meaning if the dominant culture demands it. I will amend my statement to "I don't think most people named Joseph would consider "Giuseppe" their name, except under exceptional circumstance." It's a bit like variants in spelling, I suppose. Steven/Stephen/Stephan being a prime example, and John/Jon/Jonathon being another. They aren't the same, and the owners of those names are very much attached to their own versions to the point of being offend if people use the wrong one even after being told otherwise. Mingmingla (talk) 19:27, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, part of the problem is the confusion of semantics and metaphysics. Asking what someone's name is is rather problematic, as if names were facts of nature. Names are matters of convention, see nominalism. Using a more sophisticated terminology everyone could agree that a person was given a certain "birth name" and that that name might have different versions in different languages, historically or as a matter of phonological adaptation. Ignoring the diphthong and the long consonnat, neither Italians nor Anglophones really have a major problem saying Joe or Giuseppe. Those names are historically related and recognized as versions of each other. (Yet I have never heard anyone suggest that someone named Sean should be called John "in English".) And Frank is simply impossible in Chinese, where no historically related native version exists. μηδείς (talk) 19:42, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

If we had a verbal phrase along the lines of "how are you / would you like to be called?" rather than "what is your name?", as many other languages do, problem solved. - filelakeshoe 21:35, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Succinctly: Translation is not transliteration. Transliterating names from culture to culture is necessary and appropriate. Translating them is usually not. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:52, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you be more explicit? Are you speaking only of transliteration by alphabet? For example, Джон Джонсон? μηδείς (talk) 23:11, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

By alphabet, by phoneme, whatever. By meaning, no — that's translation. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

So Joseph would become Giosef(fo), but not Giuseppe? μηδείς (talk) 03:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether "Giosef" was serious (I wouldn't imagine Italians would have any trouble calling people "Joe" or "Gio"), but I've seen this kinda thing happen, my friend Lindsay eventually became known as Linzi in the Czech Republic, which isn't a Czech name or a cognate or anything. There are definitely cases where names are translated, learning to say ř took me 2 years, I doubt you're gonna go through that trouble just to pronounce Jiří Řeřicha's name correctly, and he may prefer to become known as George Watercress than whatever mispronunciation of his name people decide on. - filelakeshoe 11:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I suppose my point is that while transliteration is a written phenomenon, people speak in...speech. What in the world does it mean to say Italians call Joseph their transliterated version of Joseph? Are we to expect that they spell out his name letter by letter when they address him? Of course not. And native Italian words do not end in eff. The notion's effing ridiculous. English has the habit of keeping foreign spellings while ignoring their pronunciation. Because of that, monolingual English speakers don't realize that even Anglophones necessarily assimilate the phonology foreign words. μηδείς (talk) 12:21, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Transliteration is not just written. Russians transliterate "Harvard" to "Garvard"... and that's how they pronounce it, too. In my book, that's still transliteration. It's not translation. Ditto with proper names — they call Hilary Clinton "Gilary," they don't substitute it with some sort of traditional Russian name. Brazilians pronounce "Robin" as "Hobin." As for whether that will be seen as mispronunciation by the originating folks, of course, but that's not interesting or surprising. Americans don't generally rename people with typical Chinese names "Chuck" or "Bill" just because it's more convenient. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I suspected you were using your own "book" in calling phonetic assimilation "transliteration"; at least now that's out in the open. The article transliteration directly contradicts you in its second paragraph. See also the section on changes in pronunciation in the article loanword. We don't seem to have an article on phonetic nativization as such. μηδείς (talk) 17:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

In Russian, Harvard is Гарвард. That's strict transliteration. It requires pronunciation changes if you read the latter as the actual word — it no longer says "Harvard" anymore. That's my point. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

"Americans don't generally rename people with typical Chinese names "Chuck" or "Bill" just because it's more convenient" - oh yes they do. It's actually quite common for Chinese people to use English equivalents of their given names in the Anglophone world. - filelakeshoe 14:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

My point is they don't just do it routinely. There are ad hoc name changes and name adoptions of course, but it's not the old days of Ellis Island anymore where Americans just routinely give foreigners new names. Plenty of foreigners change their own names to make it easier for others, but if you went to the DMV and said "ah, just call me Jimmy" instead of your actual name, it would not be recognized as correct substitution, even if your name was pretty much the equivalent of "Jimmy" in your native language. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Ellis Island name changes are a myth. Families changed their names on their own as they assimilated but not at Ellis Island, nor did the immigration officials changes names on their own. Rmhermen (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I once asked a Chinese man named Ruben Goldstein how he got that name. He explained that this was the name of the person in front of him at Ellis Island. When the Chinese man was then asked his name, he said "Sam Ting", so the immigration official wrote down "Ruben Goldstein" again. :-) StuRat (talk) 19:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

(EC) I strongly question the accuracy of your last statement. A lot of Chinese people do have a nominally English or Western names for a variety of reasons, however it's fairly rare for it to be an equivalent to their given name. For starters, some Chinese people from HK, Malaysia and Singapore are given an English or Western name at birth. While this sometimes relates to their Chinese given name often it does not and is instead chosen via other methods. As for those who do take on a name themselves, there are a variety of ways they end up with it (I avoided the word choose because in not all cases do they really make a choice) but often relation to their given name is not much or any of a factor. Reading the example you gave, it seems clear relation to their Chinese given name was not a factor there either. A notable issue here is that in some cases, particularly with mainland Chinese who decide to take on a name without much feedback from English speakers, they sometimes take on a name which just seems bizzare. (This is sometimes done on purpose, but now always.) http://www.chinese-tools .com/forum/read.html?q=14%2C122278 Also as I said, this happens for a variety of reasons rather then always being case of Americans or others renaming them because it's more convient (as you suggested). It's true in some cases it's somewhat forced on them by others, this particularly happened in the past. But often nowadays it's mostly their choice for reasons like perceptions that it's easier to remember, makes them stand out less, they don't have to explain how to pronounce it and possibly not even how to spell etc. I can't specifically speak for Americans, but I think with many New Zealanders nowadays have no problems with Chinese people who only have their Chinese name and don't generally prompt them to take on an English/Western name because it's more convient. (For most of those who do push the issue, actually having such a name won't help much. Personally being part Chinese and solely having a Chinese name, I feel the practice is unnecessary, there may be a small advantage in reducing discrimination with CVs but probably not much and I suspect some of the other advantages like ease of memory aren't really true. But of course, it's the person's choice.) Nil Einne (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

What would you call it when the spelling is the same but the pronunciation different? The Uruguayan footballer Sebastián Coates pronounces his name 'Coe-ah-tez', whereas his Scottish father pronounces it to rhyme with 'boats'. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 13:27, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Lamentable. —Tamfang (talk) 00:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

When I'm consorting with the Russian community, I automatically switch to Vanya (diminutive of Ivan) as my name. Truth to tell, it's not really my decision, but it's what I would get called whether I like it or not; I don't mind it in the slightest, so I go along with it. When we're being faux-formal, I even become Ivan Ronaldovich, which, apart from sounding a bit naff, completely ignores the fact that I have legally changed my given name from John to Jack. If I ever migrated to Russia, I'd seriously consider adopting a name with the standard given name-patronymic-surname formula, but Jack Ronaldovich <surname> would not be a goer. Sorry, Dad. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:20, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I've always thought it nifty that the Noldor who settled in Beleriand adapted their names to Sindarin using etymology. — I knew an American of Slavic Jewish descent who speaks Chinese and translated his birth name, as far as possible, for his "Chinese name". —Tamfang (talk) 00:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the answer is a simple "no": in Russian "Ivanovich" is not a "last name", but a patronymic. The last name that corresponds to "Ivan" would be "Ivanov". --Martynas Patasius (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Patronymics are a type of family name, and the concept of a last name was a family name marker. "Johnson" is a patronymic as well, that is used as a last name. From the Johnson article: The name itself is a patronym of the given name John, literally meaning "son of John". Ian.thomson (talk) 18:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd say the literal meaning of the family name is unimportant, these days, as the number of Johnsons who have a father named John is probably about the same as the general population. The same is true of last names based on occupation, geographic feature, etc. Thus, the meaning it once had has been lost. StuRat (talk) 19:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure that Иванович is never used as a фамилия (inherited family name) in Russian? Certainly family names with vič exist elsewhere in the Slavic world. —Tamfang (talk) 00:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

For the record, I do consider Giuseppe = Joseph, just like I consider Evsei/Yevsei = Yehoshua = Joshua/Josh. Also, some people have the last name Ivanovich/Ivanovic without having a father named Ivan (or some variant of this name). Also, I just realized that this question needs to be moved to the Language section. Futurist110 (talk) 23:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Many A small number of Russians with an -ovich surname are descended from Serbians. I count 12 -ovich surnames at List of surnames in Russia. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, most of those from the list are descended from Ukrainian or Polish names, and/or are Jewish. Such descent is much more likely, due to geographic proximity and intensity of contact, isn't it? There has been a number of Serbs taking important roles in the Russian history, but due to surname extinction and Russianization there are not much traces left in the form of surnames. No such user (talk) 13:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure you're right. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 20:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

August 5

Secretariat's ancestry

Was Secretariat (horse), who won the United States Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing in 1973 with times which have not been bettered so far, a descendant of Godolphin Arabian, Darley Arabian, and/or Byerley Turk, three 18th century horses said to be the "founders of the modern Thoroughbred horse racing bloodstock?" Edison (talk) 03:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

All three, multiple times over. See the pedigree here and trace it back to the 1700s: ]. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 04:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

"All modern Thoroughbreds can trace their pedigrees to three stallions..." It is basically part of the definition of Thoroughbred. Rmhermen (talk) 16:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! It is gratifying to search back to the mid 1700's and find the Godollphin Arabian, as a multiple-line ancestor of Secretariat. I gave a book report in 6th grade on "King of the Wind" by Henry, about the Godolphin Arabian, and it just occurred to me to check whether he was an ancestor of Secretariat. Lots of inbreeding. Do genetic ailments due to recessive traits show up in "thoroughbreds" more than in random lines of horses? Edison (talk) 00:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes and it's been getting worse just in the past few decades. 70.59.11.32 (talk) 09:39, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

finding a person

reading about ALDERSHOT ARMY BASE did not help me. I hoped to find some one like "President of Mess Comitee (P.M.C.)" like the those that I met in the RAF years ago but I did not realise the gigentic size of that "Army Home". I need info` concerning miss JANE ROTMAM from Palestine that had been "married in Aldershot to an officer" she met while he served in Palestine. That took place in 1933 and the offier`s name was CALLINCE . Persuming the marrige was registered in an officer`s mess diary , Would you be kind to direct me where to aim my very-poor-informed question? {Lt. Col. Ret. R. Melamed, (Address removed) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.125.157.123 (talk) 12:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I have removed your address details, since it's not a good idea for these to be on display. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 12:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

You would be better to direct your query to someone at the National Archives, who are specialists in researching military events. This guide might help you prepare your question better. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

FWIW none of the girls with a first name Jane married in Farnham or Aldershot in the 1930s have a surname that resembles Rotmam or married somebody with a surname that resembles Callince. The nearest I can find is a Henry Collins and a Joan Rotman in Bath in 1937. MilborneOne (talk) 13:28, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

August 6

Why is it Less Acceptable for Guys to Call Other Straight Guys Handsome than it is for Women to call Other Straight Women Pretty?

This is something that I've always wondered about. And Yes, this is a serious question. Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It's simply that guys aka men, are reluctant to accept and agree (in public) that they find other men attractive. I am married, heterosexual, have 5 kids and 15 grandkids; I don't box or play other sports; I hug old friends when I see them, and I often say to my wife that a certain actor or celebrity of the male species is a good looking guy - and she may or may not agree. But she is in no way suspicious that I would rather climb into bed with him than with her. I think that this gay or straight construct is as socialogically important as facebook - in other words,it is totally unimportant. Let's live with it. After all, it's better than living in Syria. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 00:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

There is simply more stigma attached to men being gay then women. As to "why" that is, there are probably many reasons but it all comes down to culture. In France for example, it's perfectly normal for men to kiss eachother's cheek when they greet and in some asian countries it's perfectly normal for male friends to hold hands. Vespine (talk) 00:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The construction of masculinity is amazingly fragile. One wrong word, one wrong move, one wrong idea — and insecure people start to get quite uptight. Fortunately it's not universal... but it's pretty common. At least the way it is constructed in the United States, where most men spend, say, an inordinate amount of time worrying about whether the guy in the toilet stall next to them might glance at their junk. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Western concepts of masculinity are typically claimed as being founded on dominance and superiority (some even claim sadism). The same sociologists claim that femininity is founded on submission and inferiority. Thinking that way, it would make complete sense that men would avoid giving complements to other men on features that a woman might like. By exposing his feminine side he would be becoming less of a man. If you are truly interested in the topic, there are many thousands of sociology papers on the concept of masculinity that you can find on Google Scholar, for instance. I did not find any papers specifically on the giving of complements, but there are many interesting reads in there. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

What part of "The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events. Do not start a debate; please seek an internet forum instead'" is confusing? μηδείς (talk) 01:22, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Unless you're about to classify the entire study of masculinity, and perhaps the entire field of sociology for that matter, as "opinion", then this is not a request for debate. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

That is pretty much my view of the entire field of sociology, yes. Sociology, at least as practiced in US universities, appears to be a political theory masquerading as a science. --Trovatore (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It is, nevertheless, accepted as a legitimate area of study along with the other disciplines, and it has a formal standing that astrology, for example, will never have. It's subject to the same peer reviews and other thresholds that other disciplines must also satisfy. I've often challenged people on the Science ref desk who come out with categorical statements like "Such-and-such does not exist", on the basis that they personally do not believe it. Such incredibly shoddy demonstrations of the scientific method do not mean that I throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject all of science. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I am not saying that sociology cannot be a science. I am saying that, as currently practiced, it is a sham; a dishonest attempt by a rather specific political theory to paint itself as science. --Trovatore (talk) 21:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It depends on the society, the culture, the time period, the sub-culture within that society, and the particular social context. These elements depend on the particular social construction of gender and sexuality in a place time space. There is a wide literature on gender and sexuality in human societies. If you are interested I would suggest you start with a University introduction to sociology, and a University introduction to Women's and Gender Studies. Popular theoretical constructions of how gender and sexuality work in the advanced western countries include concepts such as patriarchy, heteronormativity (related to Queer theories) and rights based "liberal" feminism. Often the universality of these concepts is challenged in general, or in particular by theorists of social structure who emphasise race or class more significantly. In the particular case of your speculation, men are probably general forbidden to compliment each other's fascade because of the construction of masculinity as active and the construction of the compliment as an action performed upon another; complimenting a man's appearance would force him into being the subject of the male gaze and thus limit his agency (and by implication, social potence). Gazing upon other men emasculates them (cf: the construction of imaginary violent rape amongst men who otherwise don't have sex with men—the prison rape turns you into a bitch). Being gazed upon unmans, much like women are unmanned by being gazed upon (along with other phenomena). Fifelfoo (talk) 04:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, my unsigned comrade, I'd agree that much of the above is speculation; but, I am trying to speculate around the domain of the problem and give links to theoretical concepts or literatures that the OP might read. I don't think the problem of male heterosexual compliments has been much studied—I don't think it is one of the core problems of gender or queer studies; even for those students of gender and sexuality who focus on heterosexual masculinity. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:47, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Could it simply be that most men don't know what an attractive man is whereas women are bombarded with what's "pretty" every day and therefore have a good idea of what that means? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• It took me about 20 seconds with Google Scholar to turn up some good leads on research in the area of male-male compliments, namely by typing the phrase "male-male compliments" into Google scholar. The first few papers look promising, and I'm sure some tweaking could turn up even better results on research in the field. See here. --Jayron32 05:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
  • And a little further digging turned up this reference titled "The ethnography of English compliments and compliment responses: A contrastive sketch" which deals exactly and thoroughly with the OPs question about the differences between males giving compliments to other males, verses female-female and male-female interactions. --Jayron32 05:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I've never seen two female friends break each others balls, nor have I ever seen two male friends compliment each others outfits. It goes beyond sexual thoughts, down to the large difference in how men act towards other men, and women towards other women, being that women generally give many more compliments than men do. 65.95.22.16 (talk) 17:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Women also have a reputation (probably not usually but surely occasionally deserved) for cattiness/bitchiness towards each other, a trait not normally associated with men. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 20:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I've always been of the believe that modern history is a blip in the radar, and that we still act entirely on caveman mentality and instinct, as that dominated over a million years of our history. The half-century prevalence of homosexuality in main stream culture has had zero meaningful impact on our behaviours. Men do not want to place value in other men, for that lowers or reduces by comparison their own value. In prehistoric times, the alpha male would lead the group, mate with the women, and pass their seed to the next generation. The beta males would serve to gratify the women, but they wouldn't have the opportunity to procreate. So, clearly the advantage was in being the alpha male. To do this, you had to dominate, and not be a subordinate. If you put two sexually-active males of any species together, they will establish this pecking order through fighting, sparring, pinning, humping, or some other method of showing off their stuff. As humans, however, we've developed communication that allows us to establish this order through subconscious body language and cues. FOr this reason, men don't want to establish themselves as the subordinate male, complimenting the alpha; they want to be the alpha receiving those compliments. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 17:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean to be funny, but do you have a source for any of that (in particular the structure of prehistoric society)? It seems a lot like a "just-so story". AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 17:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It's essentially a summary of any introduction to sociology and anthropology course. I'm not reading these off a book or anything, just providing my knowledge based on what I've learned from several courses on the subject. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 17:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd take Floydian's description of prehistoric society with a grain of salt. No quality sociology or anthropology course is going to offer such a hard and fast description on something that can only be inferred based on indirect observations. --Daniel 18:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Floydian seems to be thinking of, like, lions or something. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Please see the above and below comments, you can very easily tell most wikipedians are men as they like to put each other down a lot. If wikipedia was mostly women you would likely see comments such as "that was a good answer" - something that has yet to ever occur on wikipedia. Canadian Spring (talk) 21:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to say yours was an example of those good answers of which you speak, but since your assertion can be easily shown to be complete bollocks, it would be quite wrong of me to compliment you. I'll just leave it at that. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Getting a bit catty are we? Canadian Spring (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

No, I'm simply withholding the barnstar you might have earned had you spoken the truth. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

*I think it depends on the context. A fine comment I heard recently is that men insult each other publicly, and don't mean it, and women compliment each other publicly, and don't mean it. HiLo48 (talk) 21:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

How do I sign up as a foreign mercenary for the Free Syrian Army?

In case this makes a difference, I am a natural-born American citizen. Even though I scored 85 on the ASVAB, I couldn't join the Air Force due to anxiety issues.

That's why instead of serving our own military in an official capacity, I'd like to serve a different military in a differing capacity.

That is, if my life fails to pan out with my other plans, hence "fails" altogether somehow.

I can't go to the Syrian embassy in Washington, nor their regional consulates; they're still governed by the Al-Assad regime.

Is there a Free Syrian Army contact in America that I can speak to in order to get recruited?

Also, having successfully completed 144 credit-hours of college, I'd like to be paid a minimum of 10¢ per credit-hour succeeded, per hour, so $14.40/hour. Would the FSA be able to pay me that much? Also, do they provide sign-on bonuses to mercenaries?

I'd like to start with launching rockets from a distance, then graduate up to operating UCAVs that supporting nations give or sell to the FSA. Thanks. --70.179.170.114 (talk) 18:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Mercenaries can be quite well paid (significantly more than the figure you mention). However, organisations aiming to recruit mercenaries expect them to come with training. In the USA, such training is available to private citizens from what was formerly known as Blackwater, here. Blackwater may also be able to offer you employment (probably in places other than Syria) on completion of suitable training.

"Firing rockets" in the sense of the commonly available rocket-propelled grenade is not something that can usefully be done "from a distance", because they are not very accurate. Any firing position close enough to be useful, would also put you within easy range of rifles and automatic weapons used by the other side.

I don't know if the Free Syrian Army currently has access to drones, and it seems very unlikely they would provide training on-the-job for that (although other agencies might).

I'm sure the Syrian Free Army has representatives in the USA, just as the Libyan rebels had representatives in the UK during the fighting there. However, joining the Syrian Free Army directly might be hampered if you don't share their language or religion.

Finally, although I can't give medical advice, people with anxiety issues may not be well suited to be mercenaries. Good luck! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll echo some of what Demiurge said, but I'm going to be little harsher. The FSA will have zero interest hiring an untrained person with anxiety issues who doesn't speak Arabic and is apparently only interested in very low risk jobs. You may want to look into something like the French Foreign Legion, but you are likely to run into the same medical issues you did trying to join the USAF. --Daniel 18:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

(after ec)Do they still have a '"Professional Adventurers" wanted' (or whatever it's called) section in Soldier Of Fortune magazine? Also, I'd imagine that the best way to become a mercenary would be to have already served in the military in some combat capacity already - and thus already come with the required skills. Realistically, no-one is going to hire the guy who collects toy soldiers, has read 'The Wild Geese' and 'The Dogs Of War' and now fancies killing his fellow man for pay (would you want him next to you on the battlefield?) unless they need someone to stand at the front and soak up bullets - or clear mines with a stick. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 18:39, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is a serious question. Or is it? -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

From the OPs extensive history on the RD I would say it sort of is, although I doubt even if the responses had been more heartening the OP will have any more follow thru then their plenty of other ideas they've brought to the RD, including joining the Korean army. (Although most of their proposals seem to have been the sort which couldn't get encouraging responses.) Nil Einne (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the Free Syrian Army pays its fighters. People join it because they support the cause. What money they have goes on food and ammunition. Also, the Air Force doesn't let people with anxiety issues join for a very good reason - being in a war zone tends to make even the calmest people a little anxious. Someone with existing anxiety issues wouldn't stand a chance. Also, you speak as though this is a plan for a future - the Free Syrian Army isn't going to exist for long. Either they'll win and disband (or become simply the Syrian Army) or they will get wiped out. --Tango (talk) 19:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

There's always talk about "foreign mercenaries" being involved, although how factual such talk is, I don't know. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

If you want to run UAVs, you should join the US or Israeli armed forces, since they have them. Being a US citizen, I assume that would be the easier route. StuRat (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The UK armed forces also operate UAVs, and there is a fair amount of news coverage about how their use is being rapidly widened to other organisations for various purposes. Maybe becoming an UAV expert first would be the best route. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

But if the USAF bounced him out for psychological reasons they're not likely to let him fly a drone. Neither is the UK or the FFL. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Like I said, the use of drones is being rapidly expanded. For example, to police forces, environmental watchdogs, who knows what else. If he gets a job flying drones for some NGO monitoring deforestation, or something, he might then get a job flying drones for some U.S. police force, and he might then market himself to the U.S. military as someone with substantial expertise in flying drone and training others to fly drones, and all of a sudden, OMG he's in charge of an entire wing of drones over some new U.S. protectorate not very dissimilar to Syria! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:36, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

From what I saw on the TV news last night, the Free Syrian Army is hardly a professional army offering comprehensive training (or pay). They seemed to young, inexperienceed ordinary people, motivated more by a hatred of the Al Assad regime than a desire for a bit of soldiery. What training there was, seemed to be "this is an AK-47, the magazine goes in here and the bullets come out of this end when you pull the trigger" and "this is an RPG launcher, the RPG goes here and the rest works just like an AK-47". I strongly suspect that they will take any help they can get so long as you can demonstrate a desire to fight for their cause. To do that, you will need to demonstrate that they can trust you not to shoot them all dead as soon as their backs are turned, and that will probably involve taking part in close action against the regime while under the watchful eye of someone else. It really is not the place for someone with anxiety issues and an inability to speak the language. UCAVs? - best just to forget about that part of your plan. Astronaut (talk) 08:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Any American signing up is likely to be regarded with some suspicion. With Al-Qaida increasingly becoming involved, suspicion of American is likely to increase. I can't tell how serious you are, but I think you should bear in mind the possibility of being shot as a suspected spy. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

PS2 COUNCIL

I could only find the slim version of the PlayStation 2 on sale at ebay. The average price for the site was about 45$. I want to sell my regular play station 2. How much would be the price of a Playstation 2 that is not "slim"? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

You didn't search ebay very hard... . --Tango (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

August 7

Video games for ps2

Where can I find out how long it usually takes PS2 videogames to sell on EBay? Thanks--99.146.124.35 (talk) 03:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)anonymous

eBay auctions have a variety of auction lengths available to the seller so it entirely depends on how long they select. If you mean how many attempts well again that totally varies - this time on the age and quality and reputation of the product. I would suggest you "watch" a few items on ebay and monitor the results. The more you watch the more "accurate" the average you will gain... But there is no definative answer to this question. gazhiley 09:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Color based classifications

Looking for info on color based classifications esp for reading materials. Would appreciate any help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.244.183 (talk) 04:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

You may need to be a little more specific. Colour of what? HiLo48 (talk) 09:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

The OP said color, not colour, whatever that is. μηδείς (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you asking about the schemes for books for elementary/primary schools which classify books according to difficulty? There's a lot of different schemes. The Oxford Reading Tree system goes (low to high) pink, red, yellow, blue, green, orange, turquoise, purple, gold, white. Rigby Star is similar with lilac, pink, red, yellow, blue, green, orange, turquoise, purple, gold, white, lime.. The Enterprise Program from Renaissance Learning has a completely different scheme with even more levels. The Accelerated Reader scheme, popular in the USA and running up to grade 7, goes red, blue, orange, yellow, green, purple, gold star. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

There might be a color-based classification system in Category:Library cataloging and classification.

—Wavelength (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

How to share large collection of references on a single topic

I've got a collection of news articles (PDFs) from 2005 on Hurricane Katrina: http://en.wikipedia.org/Hurricane_Katrina. I am unsure of the best way to share this information. Would it be best to share on that page, or my company's page: http://en.wikipedia.org/Acadian_Ambulance. We would like to share this information on the company page to communicate our history and significant role in the event.--Sabrina LeBeouf (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)Sabrina LeBeouf http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Sabrina_LeBeouf

The news articles are probably under copyright and we're very careful to obey copyright law, so you can't post them here. Are the articles about your company's role in dealing with Katrina? If so, the best thing to do is probably put links to them on the talk page of the article on your company. --Tango (talk) 18:58, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

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