Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:53, 24 August 2012

too much stress, I can be contacted through email or thewik.net

Block review community consensus
I was blocked for this and see no reason to continue with a cloud hanging over my head or confusion over the issue. An apparent third party appeal to the admin here failed, so it's clear I should not continue if that is what everyone wants. If people want to add their names to this table, to show if this block is justified or not, that might change my mind, otherwise, good luck to the lot of you, and happy editing. Penyulap ☏ 12:53, 4 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Unjustified	Thom2002 (talk) 22:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC) You will find that most admins are trigger happy, but most can count to three. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 21:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Justified	Mythpage88 (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Unclear	Don't understand the reason for the block.93.96.148.42 (talk) 08:44, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Error: Image is invalid or non-existent.

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Penyulap, after everything you have been through, you deserve one of these! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 18:07, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Jaguar. Penyulap ☏ 21:23, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Penyulap has requested talk page access be restored

Penyulap emailed me two days ago and asked for his talk page access to be restored. I wanted to think on it for a couple of days, decided to bring the issue up here. I feel a discussion on the topic is worthwhile by those who know him. I would ask people be pithy, constructive and to the point, as others comments will be trimmed or removed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:22, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• My first question is what was Penyulap's rationale? Ryan Vesey 12:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
• Ryan's question is basically mine as well. Why does Penyulap want his talk page access restored? If it is so he can request unblocking (or work toward requesting unblocking, by asking for help), that's one thing. If it's so he can request people proxy edits for him, or so he can comment on what he likes or dislikes about Misplaced Pages, etc, then it's another. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
• (1) I feel the talk page should not be used for more stream-of-consciousness posts of the type we saw here in the past. Example, example. A different venue such as a blog would be a better venue for most of that material; user talk pages are intended to be used for discussions about editing the encyclopedia. Misplaced Pages is not a social media site; Misplaced Pages is not therapy. (2) Use of the user talk page while blocked is supposed to be restricted to posting unblock requests, so my opinion is no, they should not have access for quite some time, until it's time to post an unblock request, and it's far too soon for that. -- Dianna (talk) 16:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
  • • Technically, that is incorrect. Unless a restriction has been put in place by the blocking admin (it hasn't), blocked users may use the page for Misplaced Pages related discussions as well, since that is often helpful in getting them to understand the nature of the problem, and because they are still a full member of the community. Not as a forum or soapbox, but related. There is no policy restricting use this way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
      • Okay, thanks, Dennis; always room to learn something new, what with all the stuff I have forgotten. -- Dianna (talk) 18:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
• Why not throw a bit of that old AGF around? We're generous enough towards the kid vandals, so why not an editor who has (despite recent events) been a good contributor in the past? What's the worst that can happen? - they fill their own talk page with transcribed versions of the Book of Revelations, then in a week's time we remove access again and blank it. That's less effort than arguing the toss over whether to grant it. Nor are any uninvolved editors inconvenienced by it. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

  I've got to say, I agree with Andy. It seems that a large part of Penyulap's recent indef block was due to ranting at me. I don't condone his edits, but I've never been bothered by what people say about me. To this day, I've not seen anything which states talk pages are only to be used for requesting unblock requests. As long as he follows the norms of the encyclopedia... specifically not making accusations of sockpuppetry without evidence, no personal attacks, I don't see the problem here. Worm(talk) 16:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) Well, the "norms of Misplaced Pages" are that when you're blocked, you use your talk page to work toward unblocking, not as a diary or an edit request system. Giving him talk page access if he doesn't intend to work toward unblocking with it would be a waste of both Penyulap's time and the community's. Particularly because Penyulap has indicated that he's struggling to find the energy get help in real-life areas, opening his talk page back up may cause more harm than good by turning into an energy sink (which is why I removed his talk access in the first place - not because I'm an ABF monster, but because he had said that he needed to focus elsewhere, but it was obvious that he was having a hard time stepping away from Misplaced Pages to do that). I would be more than happy to give Penyulap talk access back if he intends to, say, have someone mentor him here, or if he intends to post an unblock request, or if he intends to try to explain what went wrong and reach understanding with the community. But I do not think we should be giving him access back if he intends to post here about things that won't help him rejoin the community - as Dianaa says, blogs are more suited for that than Misplaced Pages talk pages. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've asked him to provide a rationale that I will copy paste. Pardon if I'm a little slow, I'm doing some construction around here, so on and off, but making this a higher priority, to be fair to Pen. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• No problems with the delay. If the request is to provide the editor with the option of discussing circumstances which would lead to the indefinite block being lifted, I think restoring talk page access would be very reasonable. And, otherwise, as per Andy Dingley above, I don't see that much damage that could really happen even given the worst-case scenario. John Carter (talk) 16:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, because who comes to talk pages? People that want to communicate with the person, or people who disagree with them, which is trolling anyway. The fact that we are all here talking about Penyulap's comments and him not being allowed to comment about our comments about him is very strange indeed.--andreasegde (talk) 20:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

If Penyulap would like his talk page access restored, then I think it would be entirely right and proper for that to take place. Thom2002 (talk) 00:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm uncomfortable w/ justification to remove user Talk access based on admin belief it's "best" for said user in their real life. There's no way one could know that to be true or false, and it's fundamentally "I-know-what's-best-for-you-better-than-you-do" disrespectful to any adult. Even if said admin is the user's doctor, it still smacks of totalitarianism. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

• Comment As others have mentioned, we are here to build an encyclopedia. This happens in many ways. Some people correct spelling errors, others copyedit and some reference articles. The point is, the encyclopedia is built in many different ways. Communicating with others helps facilitate the work. That communication happens in many diffeent ways. Some people like the communication, others don't. As long as the communication does not violate our policies (BLP, NPA, COPYVIO, etc.), then it is acceptable communication. We have 27 million pages on Misplaced Pages, but only 4 miilion are articles. That is because talking helps build the encyclopedia. I ask Fluffernutter to please restore talk page access because I think it would be beneficial to the encyclopedia. Thanks. 64.40.54.58 (talk) 10:26, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

  I believe we're still waiting for Penyulap's reasoning behind his request for restored page access. That will be important to determining what's going to happen here. Dennis Brown, any idea when Penyulap's rationale will be coming? A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

There is no need for a rationale (an explanation of the basis or fundamental reasons for something/a justification or rationalization for something). That is asking Penyulap to explain why he would like to exist on this page. Apart from somebody being indefinitely blocked for being a vandal, I have never heard of somebody being blocked from their own talk page. Has this ever happened before? Please advise.--andreasegde (talk) 22:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Nothing yet, but Pen has always been on and off with mail. Yes Andresegde, many people get blocked from access to the talk page every day for a variety of reasons. It is an exceedingly common thing. It wasn't done here out of hate. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

All the time, for a variety of reasons. Ok. But I've never seen *this* reason before. I don't think anyone's suggested it was applied out of hate. But that doesn't mean it was a good or right thing to do, either. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Come on now folks this really shouldn't surprise anyone. This is what has become of Misplaced Pages. We block for minor infractions, indef ban for disagreeing. Its common. Its sad really, I thought Penyulap was a good contributor but all good things must end I suppose. Kumioko (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've been away on holiday without computer access, and the first thing I see on returning is that Penyulap is still blocked from posting on his own talkpage, for no good reason that I can see. The myth that blocked users aren't supposed to use their talkpage for anything other than (humbly, apologetically) requesting unblock seems to be still dogging this case, no matter how many times it's cogently refuted. I, too, believe Penyulap might be better advised, for his own sake, not to post any more.. uh.. reflexions of a general nature.. on this page, but we should simply let him be the judge of that. There's too much paternalism and top-down thinking in the admin corps. I think I'll write an essay about how Misplaced Pages is not for protecting people from themselves. Or else just go away for a bit longer. This kind of thing is deeply frustrating. :-( Bishonen | talk 11:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC).

  Bish, you can always request your tools back you know Egg Centric 15:54, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I think its pretty clear at this point that this blocking of the users talk page was contentious and should be undone by someone if not the admin that did the block in the first place. It seems like there is quite a few folks that think the block was a bad one and should be undone. I agree. Fluffernutter is normally a good admin but everyonen makes mistakes sometimes and I think this could be counted as one of those times. Kumioko (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• All: Please reach a decision on Penyulap's request to have talkpage access restored. If you cannot do so, please move the request to a noticeboard for more attention. AGK 11:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

With respect restoring talk page access shouldn't be worthy of discussion nor should it need a voting forum on the a major forum or discussion board. It seems like the majority here are in favor of restoring talk page access. In fact reading through and after watching it for several days most don't think talk page access should have been blocked in the first place. Several even seem to think the block in general was rather stupid including me. Kumioko (talk) 12:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• AGK, as I've already said, I'm waiting to hear Penyulap's actual request and reasoning. Without those, we're playing a game of telephone about what, why, and when, and I'm not prepared to make this decision without actual information. Obviously it's possible for another admin to step in and do it in my place, before we have those, if they wish. I myself am inclined toward caution, which is why I want to hear from Penyulap first about how he intends to use his talk page if he's returned access. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• If I haven't made it clear, I support the block and the talk page revocation, Penyulap also knows this. He isn't brooding about how unfair anything is, at least not to me. I prefer Fluffernutter being part of the process, even though it isn't mandatory. This is about more than rules, some of us actually like Penyulap and are concerned that when he comes back, it is on good footing, with a clear understanding, so he can do what he enjoys without hassles, and the community can look forward to him being a net asset. There is no need to move it to ANI or anywhere else. Penyulap is fully capable of emailing anyone else here, but hasn't, so I suggest we just work this situation the way it is being worked, individually and personally. There is no deadline. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• Fluffernutter: My apologies. I must have missed your explanation as to why no decision has been made. AGK 21:38, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• Penyulap and I are still chatting every couple of days, I've recommended taking it slow, and he has responded positively to my constructive criticisms and other observations. I have made several suggestions that he is mulling over as well. All and all, good communications. I will update again when needed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
• Penyulap still wants his talk page access restored, but he no longer wishes to communicate with me about it. I leave it to the community to decide. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support talk page access being restored - not even close. Egg Centric 19:10, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support restoration of talk page access - I am not an administrator myself, but if I was one, I would allow Penyulap to be given a second chance to use the talk page. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:25, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose The fact that he no longer wishes to communicate with Dennis about this says much. I see no valid reason for Penyulap to have access restored. Ryan Vesey 20:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  You don't need a valid reason to restore it. You need a valid reason to keep this unjust state of affairs going. You can certainly call his lack of wanting to communicate with someone who actively disagrees with reinstating his access to instead concentrate on those who are disposed more friendlily towards him a valid reason though, even though I will laugh at you, so I have no problem with your !vote per se - just the way that you have put the burden of showing reason on Penyulap's side rather than the pro-page ban side. Or put more succintly...

  The burdern should be on the pro-ban side to show a reason to keep it

  P.S. Bish you can still get your tools back you know. Egg Centric 20:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Correct indeed. Dennis certainly is top of the class as far as admins go. He was the first to respect this community consensus despite not agreeing with it. However, cheating by copying off someone else, even when that person is so close to the top of the class, means that you will copy their mistakes as well. If people want to do their best, then they have to study the exam paper, do the research and find their own answers. Blocks, proper ones, are about written policy. Not supposed policy. Not bullshit. Not assumed policy, but black and white written down policy. "Because someone else said so" is a FAIL as far as I am concerned. Before I make a judgement, before I cut someone down, before I back someone up, I do my own homework rather than copy someone else. If it is not in policy, if it is not written down, then for all practical purposes it does not exist. Black Kite's block is a good example of a good block.

Hints for the next exam (I am still on a break from all your dramaz), the block log twice gives the title of an essay , also, running out onto the street, looking both ways and then yelling at someone's distant, receding back, "get out", after they have left the party/pub doesn't have quite the same that's telling 'em effect as it would with proper timing and warrant. As far as I recall there were a lot of people, including myself coincidentally, who thought I needed a break, and I have not yet decided to return to the fray, it's better on the outside, more productive, less stress. I understand why people decide forever to stay away from this kind of madness and mayhem. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

• I definitely support the restoration of talk page access as a logical step towards the hopeful return of Penyulap to constructive editing. I also encourage this action to ensue in the timeliest fashion. I beseech Dennis Brown to expedite this action in the interest of propriety; notwithstanding the abundant regard accumulated by the esteemed editors before me, who have asserted their full measure of good faith to encourage the same. I submit these with the highest regard. 76Strat  da _Broke da (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Ryan Vesey. Dennis is likely one of the easiest and most lenient admins to work with and so I'm suspicious when an editor refuses to work with him. Further, though I might be missing it, I cannot seem to find the reasoning behind P's desire to have tp access restored. If it is to request unblock and work out his editing issues then that's fine, but not for any other reason as WP is not a forum for non-article related discussion, nor are blocked users supposed to be actively engaging in article discussion. Lastly, this is not the proper venue to determine whether access should be restored. I'm not sure if this was posted to AN or ANI but that's where it should be done. Sædon 20:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support. Regarding the comment above ("but he no longer wishes to communicate with me about it"), maybe I can explain... I have been talking to Penyulap (through e-mails) almost every day for the last few weeks, but I haven't had any message at all for three or four days. I don't think he doesn't want to communicate, I only think he's not available to comment. If he had had access to this page, we would have known that.--andreasegde (talk) 20:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Dennis specifically said that P doesn't wish to communicate with him anymore, not simply that he stopped communicating, and said that he still wishes to have tp access restored. It's unlikely Dennis would use that language if it were the case that he had simply not received a response as it attributes a positive statement. Sædon 21:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• • I appreciate your good intentions, Andreas, but you're not having any luck with your commentary in this section.;-) I've heard from Penyulap today. Please see below. Bishonen | talk 21:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC).
    • I have just sent an e-mail to Penyulap. I only suggested that he may be indisposed.--andreasegde (talk) 22:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support. The decision to remove User talk page access was misguided. "Let's-play-mommy" is insulting and an abuse of admin tools IMO. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 04:55, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Appeal to AGK (or another respected admin)

Surely we don't need to provide a formal list of Support/Oppose restoration of talkpage access here, at this late stage? All a talkpage-unblocking admin needs to do is read all the support in this section for such an unblock, implied (such as for instance in my own post above) or explicit. I appeal to either AGK or some other respected admin to take stock of community opinion as expressed in this section, and then unlock Penyulap's access. There's no sense in insisting on "wider input", AGK. This is not a controversial unblock of an indeffed user we're talking about right now; it's merely an unlocking of the talkpage. There is nothing controversial about it; the action was dubious (trying to put it politely here, or I'd use other words) to begin with, and there is consensus here for undoing it. This over-long deference to Fluffernutter as the somehow hallowed performer of the original lock of the page should cease. Fluffernutter, please abdicate here, if that's what it takes (though it shouldn't be). You won't lose face by it, on the contrary. To insist that Penyulap provide a "rationale" for unblocking his talkpage access (=that he eat a smaller or larger portion of humble pie) is becoming.. oh, I don't know what to call it, I'll abandon that sentence. Anyway. I understand quite well why Penyulap won't provide the pound of flesh being requested. Even if he hadn't explained it to me in e-mail, which he has done, I'd understand it; it's not hard. Please don't insist on ritual humiliation. Just return his talkpage access, come on. Oh, and EggCentric, could you stop nagging me about resuming my own admin tools? Can you really think this case is improving my appetite for adminnery, when I see what has been wrought by it here? Bishonen | talk 21:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC).

Long monologues

In regards to more than one editor erring on the side of blocking in regards to things that they see and do not understand, I shall respond to everyone publicly now. This is only because Dianna demonstrates an open mind, so I know that there is at least one person listening, and as a result I don't mind to offer a explanation.

My editorial interest began with one complex system and I joined that wikiproject when invited to do so. Recently a new wikiproject has been created to deal with the failing of a far less complex system which is never the less interesting for someone who can't visit the subject of their first interest. :) (at least I can interact with this one in a satisfying manner). The notes in question on my talkpage are part of a study I want to do myself. While other people are dealing with the novelty of the new project by offering eloquent paternal reasons why the fundamental pillar of 'everyone can edit' has to be undermined, or using it as their travel-blog, or any of a dozen other chaotic but harmless things rather than a focus on the committee's studies, I am doing my own studies first hand as I go, so if I make notes on a day in the life, so I can recall the frame of mind later on, that is part of the project, and I would question the approach of blocking first and asking questions later. I'm not saying it is the worst approach at all, that's for certain, as it was immediately trumped by the strategy of silencing the only person who could answer such an inquiry which I found quite a novel idea myself.

I would have to say though, that most of my spaceflight conversations on my talkpage are longer and more rambling. I figure on one hand if I make notes using less approachable (and therefore less useful to other people) language then I'd get less suggestions of blocking, however, as the recent farce over the null edit proved, confabulation makes up for what reality lacks, so would-be big game hunters will inevitably try their luck either way.

So long rambling edits about editor retention relate directly to half of the entire 'two' wikiprojects I am a member of. So I recommend not listening, or indef blocking, whatever works for you, personally. In RL, I go for not listening, many a time my waffling to friends gets interrupted and I'm like 'where was I?' and neither they nor I can say, not necessarily because we can't recall but maybe because neither one of us wants to, it's just that the wrong answer can resume the painful process of listening to me yap on and on and on. The best answer in those situations is to shrug and look like you're trying to remember, and just let it pass. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Talk page access restored

Since the only reasons to oppose were based upon the trust two users have in me, I would ask them to trust me again. The least controversial way to end this situation is for me to do it myself. For the record, this isn't undoing the previous talk page block, which I agreed with, but an acknowledgement that the situation has changed, thus is a new action. I leave it to the community to deal with this, as I'm unwatching this page. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:30, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Request

Can you edit File:Kyle Plante mullet 5th grade.jpg so it convincingly features Jimbo's face?♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:21, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Y'know, I'm not sure that would be a good idea. I don't know if I've ever seen a real person who more clearly reminds me Alfred E. Newman before. John Carter (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually that was something I noticed as I was trying to follow the Evil Lord's demands. Henchmen always have trouble understanding their master's instructions, and I had interpreted 'convincing' and headed off on a forensic approach, learning and installing different morphing programs to change the bone structure to match Jimbo, and after the eyebrows and other parts of the face are done, I tell you what, it DOES look a great deal more like Alfred. However, I won't upload that without Kyle Plante giving permission, as he is not a notable person and is likely to be alive, so it would not be appropriate to parody him. I had also looked for a different interpretation of the master's decree after I had spent an hour or so morphing and painting (after the couple of hours learning the software, which is not wasted, knowledge never is). I estimated that there would be about a full day's work ahead getting the face proper and 'convincing' and at the end of the day, I would have missed the mark entirely. Such an image would not be a parody so much as simply a childhood photograph that Jimbo could donate at a moment's notice if he chose to. Pointless operation. I also grafted Jimbo's face onto a rabbit, put him into a turban, and decided they all looked like cut and paste regardless of how well the cut and paste is done. So rather than face the wrath of the evil one I fumbled for another plan, and went for a contextual parody to accentuate the haircut. It's a work in progress, and I've already hit three birds with one stone, achieving a triple-parody (but who will spot and list them first, anyone ?) I haven't removed the apple laptop just yet, there is a lot of scope there, not so much the microbee or sinclair, but people can suggest anything at all, I'm open to input here, I need someone to share the blame when Dr Blofeld starts killing henchmen in displeasure, so ideas PLEASE.

....before anyone suggests that this is editing, I'd like to point out that undermining and sabotaging the powers that be, scheming and plotting between the Evil Dr Blofeld and the Lord of DOOOM is not work, it is not stressful, it is indeed an uplifting pleasure that recharges and refreshes one's zest for living. You all should try it sometime. ENLIST IN THE ARMIES OF DARKNESS. vacancies still available, plenty of room for disposable henchmen here (please) Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, thank you for the cheerful work related request. Penyulap ☏ 12:58, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hahahahaaaa LMAO that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on wikipedia!!! LOOOOLLL. That is awesome, soooo exceeded my expectations, thankyou!! Mind if I show Jimbo it, he'll find it hilarious I think? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, it's an honour to undermine the powers that be.

Sure, though I would like it if people can comment with a view towards improving our horrid articles on Parody and Internet meme in particular by suggesting something better than the abomination on that page now, or, if Jimbo doesn't mind the parody, we can find ways to improve it and add it to the parody article. Or come up with more ways to sling s***, either one is good for me.

Now who said I only edit out of spite ? oh yes, that was me. Penyulap ☏ 21:16, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hehe now if you can get Jimbo's face to appear on File:Dr.Evil3.jpg with the scar and bald head (and black evil background or fire or something) that would be cool, or File:DirkvdM irazu 2 oops.jpg with Dr. Evil standing at the top or something!!♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:18, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking those ideas, as far as I can envision them, would kind of suck, although the Dr evil without a background would be useful for you to add where you want, and can composite into the pic through code, I'll do that first off (maybe it would work and can be added, I'll do one along the way). I have thought a few times that a decent weapon rising from the lake would before firing into orbit would be appropriate, but I don't know what it looks like yet. Penyulap ☏ 21:41, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Yeah anything like would be cool and much appreciated!♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

do you know where abouts you want him ? L, R, FG BG ? Here is the code to add him to any picture, although I find merging it into a pic is more stable on a page. A single image is easier to handle and displays best on many browsers and so on.

Penyulap ☏ 05:38, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

At the front left of the volcano pic?♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Like this ? Btw, are you somewhat concerned that I am truly evil ? For most, actions speak louder than words, and for myself it is true, but sometimes my words are woven so very well it frightens the reader. Have I got you yet ? Penyulap ☏ 14:16, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hahah, yes evil enough to join SPECTRE!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I've written about unblocking a day or two ago or three ? can't remember. I know of a nice image for the Mini-Me article to put in later, 98 % less suck right there. I need more evil schemes. A workgroup, a wikiproject of evil. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Welcome (half) back you crazy fool!

I hope all is well with you and company. Do you live with sockpuppets? Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned "company"? They hang on my every word, now, and it has been interesting knowing they do not know what I know and therefore my information can't be trusted. It could be somebody else's information and not my own. Sure! We are the ones our parents warned us about! 99.251.125.65 (talk) 00:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not back, and just because most of us are paranoid doesn't mean there aren't 90 editors watching the page. I'm just dropping off some artwork is all. (and half of it will not load onto the server, as per usual) Penyulap ☏ 00:43, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

You may call it artwork, but that's an awfully modest way of describing output from a time machine. A most unusual thing for any of us mortals to see, that. Egg Centric 00:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

well, I'm just learning, and it STILL won't load onto the server, the original upload took like AN HOUR for the server to go and search for duplicates before accepting the broken ass version you can see at the moment. It returns after a flight back to the page, however, I may need to reduce the size quite a bit more, as it still won't work on the third attempt. Penyulap ☏ 01:13, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

There is a 50% thumbnail that works, and shows the general idea. Ha! I wonder how many will see me absorb 3D modelling and then fly the tardis in and be all like " N...... ha! suffer. Anyhow, the old one if you look at the early versions it is also cut down from what it was meant to be, I haven't had the time to fix it because I was so concerned to fix everything else. Penyulap ☏ 01:54, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC) 01:54, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

The bot states over 237 watchers! Less one in about 5 minutes. 99.251.125.65 (talk) 02:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand, which page ? the one for you I look at says not as many? Penyulap ☏ 03:16, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

99' was voted off the island. Penyulap ☏ 21:43, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Options

There comes a time when people wilfully restrain a third option, because the politics concerning the reasoning behind that decision have already been decided upon. One can only stand at a distance and watch the mock trial that is purported to be a hearing. It is as it is, so one should sit back and enjoy the machinations. I had never heard of C. B. Fry until last week, but I wouldn't vote for him today, even though he was a superb athlete.--andreasegde (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

His story is too tragic, surely he did more than just sew, mow, and play the flute ? is there nothing to brighten up his story a little more ? I guess you have to go with what you are given. It would have to be said that as a superman he was flawed, but as a cricketer he was gifted. Perhaps we can emphasise that he was more of a gifted sportsman, and air out the smell of regret that all dead men have. Still, that is a lot of work, and I am too critical, I have a sour mood when there is little to do but think of my sour mood. Play with me won't you ? what are some internet memes that I could draw up ? the articles on parody and internet memes are rubbish, and yet there are so many artists outside this cubefarm producing more everyday. I need an artistic outlet for my misery to expel it. Or some banner for your page perhaps ? what takes your fancy ? I have all sorts of silly interesting things to do with text, things I haven't done before, and I am sure I can annoy you with something as your pages are nice and BLANK at the moment. It was brilliant in the past, perhaps it's time to find some new humour ? Penyulap ☏ 23:28, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Something featuring Marvin (you know who), QI (TV show), Pacman (old game), and a blackbird, perhaps? Funnily enough, they seem to link together nicely.--andreasegde (talk) 07:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm a bit busy just at the moment, apart from my editing I'm trying to keep track of my indef banned robot PALZ, as far as I can tell, he is circumventing bot policy using a sockpuppet and uploading extremely weird and technically strange things. "Bad poetry" doesn't cover it, this is HIDEOUS, and look at Marvin's opus.ogg. I don't know what to do, I'm at wits end. I've banned him before for conspiring to murder, although that turned out to be some kind of sting operation (although it bordered on entrapment I would say, and due to diabolical use of the Streisand effect we may never know) and now this blatant socking to circumvent WP:BOTPOL. He's destroying the system and GAMING, I'm just lucky nobody will ever misquote me or take this out of context.

I think I've worked out just how bad his 'poetry ????' was, it seems to say

Now that I have gone to bed

Seagulls won't engulf my head

all my work will soon be dead

how I hate the night

All the protoss have been killed

in a process less than chilled

and the wise are not so thrilled

how I hate the plight

the terran tried to hold the shield

battle clubs the hordes did wield

to alien scum we have to yield

this is just not right

the zerg have gained an upper hand

and for now we let this stand

it's a disgrace throughout the land

the battlefield is a sight

-PALZ9000

something else I can't grasp about weary or dreary or something, there is that horrid car accident sound all through it, now, comparing that to the Vorlon poetry

"Oh freddled gruntbuggly/thy micturations are to me/As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.

Groop I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes. And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,

Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!"

it leads to the dilemma of whether to let PALZ9000 pursue the apparent objective of rivalling the Vorlons for the worst poetry in the universe, or stopping him before he gets that far, with the "how bad or how good do you describe it" poetry so far ? If best is the worst, and worst is the best, how can you classify what he has done, I don't know. I think I'll unplug him in the spirit of indef block when in doubt, that is the fashion of late. yes, that's a fashionable idea, I'll do that. Penyulap ☏ 00:25, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

I am mucking about with something along the lines of a moving pacman, using the same software as I used for the tardis, although I haven't done a moving parts model just yet, I did a space station with moving solar arrays but it was bare bones and never uploaded. What would a pacman do or eat if he could eat something on a banner ? Penyulap ☏ 00:52, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

	The Marvin Barnstar
	Now that I have gone to bed Seagulls won't engulf my head all my work will soon be dead how I hate the night                                      Every good Author knows how you feel Andreasegde, we've all been there with you. Penyulap ☏

I am glad I gave this barnstar to you first Andreasegde, it's a winner and so are you. Penyulap ☏ 15:33, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

This will now be on my talk page for ever, and ever (Amen?). Ta very much, Penyulap!--andreasegde (talk) 21:54, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Penyulap ☏ 22:23, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)

For the pirate king who helped the girl who leapt through time

something for your page Greg, if you like it, if not I can do it 100 other ways, your work is cool, I am so never going to be a patch on those guys, but we can all enjoy their work. Maybe softer tones that don't burn the eyes do you think ? Penyulap ☏ 03:18, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so very much. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:13, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	Comic genius creating File:Whambo.jpg. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:58, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Penyulap ☏ 21:16, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to request for help from talk page watchers

I am completely at a total and and absolute loss for understanding why CU and SPI is separate, I understand that they are different things, but I can't fathom why they are separate processes for the applicant. Which one is appropriate is a monumentally frustrating question to answer, which one to apply to, it makes NO SENSE at all to me. NONE. I don't get it, I can't use it, I want to, but I cannot understand how. There is no 'front door' to it. There are two options and the distinction in why there are two choices is completely lost on me. WTF are there two choices for where to make an application ? This is an offence to reason. This is more frustrating then 10 edit wars put together and if there is someone who can assist me I would appreciate the help. Penyulap ☏ 02:58, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Penyulap. I'm not entirely sure I understand your question, as SPI and CU are not separate departments. What I do when I suspect socking is to open a SPI report and give the behavioural evidence that leads me to suspect socking. I never ask for check-user, because I don't even file a complaint unless I have pretty compelling evidence that someone is not only socking, but disrupting the encyclopedia by doing so. Which means my reports are almost always confirmed as being sockers. The clerks patrolling the page will add the check-user request for you after they evaluate the behavioural evidence. IPs will never be linked to named accounts, because to do so reveals the geographic location of the editor. Some IPs geolocate to a particular building such as a school or a library, and therefore to link the IP to a user-name invades the privacy of the user by potentially revealing their real-world identity and location.

By the way, could you use the word "watcher" instead of "stalker"? "Stalking" is a word used in some jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense, and can thus be construed as derogatory. Thanks. -- Dianna (talk) 03:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I apologise for using the term, I used it in a neutral sense. I could use the word Angel if you like :) although tps seems to be the common term, or fans or entourage :) Umm, I don't know what is a middle term, but watcher seems pretty good. tpw ? I haven't seen that acronym much.

The front pages don't offer such advice. It is proper that they are updated, but such suggestions are invariably ignored, however the wqa is being merged, so there is hope I guess.

I would like to explain my approach, however, I can't do so publicly as he watches this page. What size should the request be ? I could write a thesis, which is also inappropriate, because creating a sock is an economical process, and reason dictates that a SPI should always be less work overall, on average, than making a sock. It would help so very much if there were guidelines for a request, so that I could estimate how much of each field of study to include, or, if there was a particular person assigned to the case a two way feedback loop could be established and then I would know which areas needed no further information as the investigator became satisfied with a particular aspect. This would help economise the task so that it doesn't become more effort than creating and running a sock, which, if that was the case, then it is illogical to attempt to apply. Making a public application was doomed to fail because nobody assigned themselves to the case. It is impossible to post information about the sock publicly because that educates the sock and therefore damages the project. A person would have to have experience or some idea on how to formulate the public outline of the case so that the socks cannot study it to improve their efforts. I think that the investigator should do the summary so that there is some consistency. I was alarmed at the manner Dennis outlined a socks mistakes to him on his tp. No assistance should be given when it is not absolutely necessary. The public case was domed to failure for a variety of reasons, one main one I won't cover all over again, as I don't need the grief. The other reason it failed is because it was taken to be the entire case when it was clearly and patently and labelled as only part of the case. Disinterest killed it, because it certainly absolutely lacks nothing for evidence or merit. I could draw the person's house, which makes me detest and loathe the business all the more, for I want nought to do with such rubbish. Anti-social people don't warrant the expenditure of my effort unless it is to assist someone else. Penyulap ☏ 04:20, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Well the SPI is going nowhere. It has not been lodged, I could articulate the problem in private, it is a problem that I have seen before in situations that do not involve me. If anyone in good standing would like to assist as a translator, that would work I expect, but I don't know if anyone has an interest, nor do I like the idea that it should be made to consume such resources. Penyulap ☏ 16:56, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Here's a couple of examples of effective reporting at SPI: Demiurge reports Babasalichai (195 words); Dianna reports Iloveandrea (123 words). Both are good examples because they show clear evidence that there's socking going on, and that it's disruptive and problematic. Don't write a thesis; be brief. People will thank you for it. The thing to do to get the report filed quietly is to email your evidence to a check-user. It looks like User:DeltaQuad is the only one actively working the page right now. Hope this helps. I like that new expression: Talk page angels. Hovering, waiting for an opportunity to be useful is how I visualise them. -- Dianna (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I will study the examples, but I don't feel it is fair really, I feel the process is broken in the same way as the WP:BRFA process is broken. The bot process is set up in a way that can be overwhelmingly confrontational. That excludes a large portion of programmers because they do not think in emotional terms, they think in logical terms devoid of emotion, think of it like Dr Spock, who escapes to the tranquillity of reason as a refuge from the tumult. It's a similar situation. I've seen that the best programmers are unable to use that process because it is set up that way. There should be an additional pathway for them to follow, which they would, so that they can also edit the project. The SPI, at least for me, doesn't work, and DQ surely will not help. That is the problem I face, and thought today that I'd best try to (overload?) poor Dennis, because at least he is openminded enough to listen while I explain my mindframe. For me, it is important to be religiously objective in dealing with accusations. I don't accuse people without pure reason, pure objective reason. Like WDGraham, bless him, has never once made me suspicious that he could be the puppetmaster, I won't go into our issues anymore outside the proper venue, however he's never been a suspect. (I don't mind saying that openly, because if anyone can untangle socking advice out of the statement, I wish them well). Translating evidence into the mindset used at SPI, because it goes from that pure objective analysis to ** knows what. I open with remarks that clearly state that part, and only part, of the body of evidence is publicly available, so that someone with a light workload will see that there is a case to look at, but instead of look at it or ** well read what I wrote, they're like 'oh I can see nothing here' and close it well of course you can't see what isn't ** there, because I did not write it there and said so. There is no conversation when there is no converse. It's like I say hello and they say goodbye. Sure, that's a short and economical conversation, but I wouldn't call it an effective communication. There is no SPI, not for a person who puts reason into being reasonable.

They are good examples. It would be A REALLY UNBELIEVABLY MONUMENTALLY BREAKTHROUGH IDEA to put them, or ones just like it, up on the SPI or CU page, with a note that also says "SPI = CU, but for some reason that can't be fathomed we have them as separate venues just to confuse the ** out of people."

Also, what of the different levels of detection skill of the investigators ? What if they actually were unable to detect something ? I don't know what to do there, how to educate them into formulating the inquiry, working out theories and tests that can be run to gather more data as I have done to improve my level of certainty far far beyond what is apparently required at SPI according to the documentation. On one hand I think to familiarise myself with the whole process, by working on some of the harder cases that I have no involvement in, to demonstrate the sound methodology I use, but I can't stand the utter waste of effort sock-chasing is. Prevention is the easiest simplest most effective thing in the universe (well ok, except for this one guy). Penyulap ☏ 21:53, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

• Penyulap, the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process. If you think an editor is a sock, you have to say (a) which editor you think they are a sock of (because to be a sock they have to have edited wikipedia before)and (b) why you think that, based on their editing. If you say User:Foo is a sock, but don't say which editor you think they are a sock of , or say why you think they are a sock of this editor, then of course no-one is going to take any notice. If you are being harrassed by an editor who you believe to be a sock, then you can email a WP:CHECKUSER. These people carry out sockpuppet investigations and have access to the checkuser tool, which may assist in this process, but whoever you contact will still want the same information. Evidence based on editing is required - abusing those involved for not being as clever as you is unlikely to help. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:54, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

The difference here is in interpretation of 'everyone can edit' some see it as 'most people can edit' and there is no room for improvement. Most people can get into the building, so no ramps are required, people should just use friends, passers-by or telekinesis. Penyulap ☏ 23:51, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

I'll rephrase. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you think you are is unlikely to help. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC) In fact I'll rephrase that again, as the preceding could be misconstrued. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you are positioning yourself at any given point is unlikely to be helpful. You don't need a ramp to report a sockpuppet, and you don't need to educate the checkusers, you just need to have some evidence and be able to type it into the edit box. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Do you like art Elen ?

I like art.

Trouble is, I'm not very good at it. I like to learn, but I'm an idiot by comparison to any real artist like Salvadore Dali or the Wachowski brothers or the comedy of the chaser when I look at what they can do and I can't. Still I like to absorb the code of the software, every piece of software is written differently, some have docs, some have tutorials, many don't have both, and some don't have either one. I'm still trying to track down the author of the holy grail of software (in my opinion) that does the most amazing fractals, as there is no other way to work out how to use it. I compiled it, and it works, but it's not simply another language, it's like half a machine and the artist is the other half. It fascinates me.

I often look for inspiration, I was looking for inspiration this morning and thought, what makes me happy, and I thought of the nice words on my talkpages, how it's more than little letters in the code, and and thought of what I could create with the idea. I love the matrix movie, and want to do like the way the little letters rain down, but I haven't got very far yet.

File:August 24 Doodle.gif

here is the doodle I was playing with just then, usually I don't upload half finished things, but meh, who cares. I like to learn how to 3D model each letter of text, and then line them up, assign colours and lighting and animation, and then the layers of complexity add up, with the different strings and how they combine to make rain or walls and structure, and then the flying through it choreography and cinematography. Of course, it's all been done before in the matrix reloaded intro but I think that'd be cool to learn, and I can manage my name or something to appear from the code like at 42s where it says 'the Matrix', probably by tomorrow I guess, but I want to go get something to eat, something away from the computer. I wonder what the matrix article looks like, but then again, the question is moot right now. I guess sometimes I look for inspiration, something to make me feel good about creating something cool for the project. I really like the whole Dr Evil thing, that movie rocks, still, who knows if I can do the mini-me article or not. Sometimes I lack the willpower.

Something I'd like to know Elen, do you like art ? or movies ? what are your happy thoughts ? what inspires you. Penyulap ☏ 01:56, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Do you have happy thoughts Elen ? Penyulap ☏ 02:24, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Well it's time to give up and leave me to my indef ban forever then. For me, the process is unworkable and the procedure untenable. People can't do everything, everyone has a failing, so ban me for it, screw the lot of you. I haven't named any suspect since being blocked, I haven't implied, I've only named people who are NOT suspects, here is a string of people who are NOT suspects, WDGraham, Jimbo Wales, Dr Blofeld, Jssteil, Bish (suspicions character that Bish) hmm yes, well I could name names of people who are not suspects all day long, but I think that is enough of a list to ban me over. Should I keep going ? want some more to issue warning over so you can block me good and proper ?

Better still ban me because sockpuppets cause problems for me while I try to edit wikipedia. Let me say here, SOCKPUPPETS cause ME a lot of trouble. Some of them are nice, some are funny, and some vote, and some try to get help from admins to ban people they don't like. Ban everyone who doesn't like sockpuppets. Or better yet, just work out which sockpuppets are causing trouble, and which are harmless, no secret, clearly labelled and ban THEM instead. Oh wait, palz IS banned already, dang. Is Thomas Moore banned ? Yep, well, I guess the job is done and nobody else on wikipedia will leave because they are harassed by sockpuppets. Would someone let Dennis know that we can just put a little beside that problem with editor retention, because it's been solved. No further work is needed. "the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process." I think we can just copy this solution to the other problems on the editor retention project page as well, it's a brilliant solution that I'm sure we can apply to a lot of problems that have been outlined by the foundation. Yes, I think editors leave simply because they can't be bothered, wikipedia is not broken at all, it's just them, and good riddance.

Tutorial

Artwork is very simple, would everyone like to learn how to draw a barnstar today ? The process is very easy. We'll make some barnstars in this lesson to the tune of "Bend and stretch"

Now come and join us everyone, we're going to make some barnstars today, now everybody stand up together, move your keyboard forward a little, move the chair back, that's the way, move it right back so you have lots of room to bend over. Have you done that ? Ok feet apart everybody, and sing along with the music, ready Mr Music ? Ok

"Bend and stretch, reach for the stars"

"there goes Jupiter (POP) here comes Mars (POP) "

"Bend and stretch, reach for the sky"

"stand on tip-e-toe, oh so high"

Now, do we all have some lovely barnstars ? oh that's wonderful isn't it. Now that wasn't so hard now was it ? as easy as using SPI right ? oh that's lovely.

Yep, I think we are in the same boat right here Elen, I have no clue as to why everyone can't use some of the simplest software, not the stuff I compile and chase down Authors for, but the really really SIMPLE stuff like I used to make these, why is that ? "the (software) is not broken just because (they) cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is... very simple (software)."

I'm not trying to be funny here, I'm in no mood for humour. So although I am using you to make an illustration in a light-hearted fashion, I do think it's improper for every individual editor to be banned because they have one area they need help with. Sure, there is the cube farm monoculture mentality which people think is some kind of policy "Everyone is EXPECTED to know and be proficient at everything" however, I think that is based upon the assumption that everyone CAN do everything. Limiting editors to those who CAN do everything is just as flawed as limiting editors to those who can do all (and only) the things that you can do.

The pillar linked from the five pillars page, the one called "NICE" under the heading "Co-operation and civility" is big on civility, but is a bit light on co-operation. In fact, it says nothing whatsoever about the Co-operation part at all. How about we just delete that part eh ? We can replace it with "Everyone is expected to be able to do everything." As in, if you can't do SPI, you can get stuffed, and the graphics lab, well, I should just tell everyone there to get stuffed as well, they can do their own art and comedy.

Then of course, we should update the five pillars page, "content that anyone can edit" to "content that people like us can edit", with you know, a link to a page that explains in lovely paternalistic words how some people can't do some things and they have to be handed their hat because camaraderie and co-operation is too much to expect when everyone should be exactly like us, that is the point, that they can be banned unless they manage to do everything that we can do. The basis of which is the idea that 'we' as in the individual, can actually do everything. It's an idea believed by morons and enforced by the incompetent. So yeah, add me to the shitslide. Penyulap ☏ 16:53, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)

edit request for any nearby angel

My thoughts are with both of you, and I hope the resilience of youth will see him through. Penyulap ☏ 08:29, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

please move the above comment to the end of this section

Done. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:47, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.

Cool handle :) Penyulap ☏ 15:56, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hi Penyulap!

Welcome back! I'm sorry if I'm a little late welcoming you back but I have been away from Misplaced Pages for a few weeks and my emails are also down at the moment, so that is why you have not had a reply from me yet! I've also got my GSCE results today - it's all alright and what I have expected from myself. It's good to see you here again, Penyulap! Regards, ☠ Jaguar ☠ 14:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you too Jag. I'm confined to my talkpage which is limiting my efforts to art, rather than politics and drama, and as most people have no idea wtf I am doing or why when I do that kind of stuff, it's making me look a whole lot more productive, at least to a few who understand the art. I expect some don't know what a Parody or Internet meme is, if I judge the crowd by the articles we have made. Try to find what is funny about an Internet meme, you can't because NOBODY on Misplaced Pages has a sense of humour, well present company excepted. I can't prove that you're not funny, although I know I'm not funny that's for sure.

It's good that you feel it went well. There is so much politics and manipulation involved in education. The news was mentioning some criticism of where the settings were placed on the results. It interests me because they actually dumb down the population gradually, whilst boosting their self esteem, to make them more docile while the whole time almost nobody notices. Or they notice and don't know why. I'll rave on in private about it later (if absolutely necessary, which I hope it's not :) Penyulap ☏ 16:26, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I was watching Sky News today and I saw Michael Gove (education sec) come out of Downing Street and a reporter asked him "can you explain the 0.4% fall in the GSCE results?" or something like that, and all he said was "How do you do?". I was like WTF?

I can't help but notice that the actual exams have got a little harder as well as the examiners who mark them have been treating the results much too harshly. For example, in Drama, I got an F. My only F. I hate drama and I don't know why I took it, but during the final performance I told the examiners that I had bronchitis (yeah, I know what you're thinking, how can you get that at my age!?), so I lost my voice and I had trouble barely speaking! I gave my best performance and yet I got an F. However, many other people got E's and F's as well, which comes to make me think that the exams have got harder or at least they're being marked more harshly. I got B's in English Language and Literauture which is very good as I'm taking it at college, and I got an A in History (Winston Churchill will be proud of me). Of course Michael Gove is denying that politics are interferring with GSCE's, because all politicians do is deny everything when the truth it right there! Who knows? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 18:22, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think even 5 year olds escape the politics of marking. Someone I know had an ongoing struggle and outright battle really, to have the results of their exams simply recognised. The University had funding and quota limitations in place originally intended to give scholarship type assistance to those who achieved certain academic levels, the University had to limit expenditure, so rather than change the program, they instructed their staff to downgrade some of the best people. This is a hard thing to do for people who have almost perfect scores, the higher the achievement, the worse it looks. Outside independent legal authorities got involved and had 'seen it all before' from that University. Nothing new and the University was recalcitrant to correct the problems, which were ongoing. In the end, the solution was to change city, enrol at another university which recognised the study thus far, and run parallel studies in pursuit of doctorates from both universities without the first being aware of the situation (timetables are more flexible the further on you go with structured study, so you can do a Hermione and have simultaneous doctorates without a moment's bother. Idiots.)

In the end it is best to structure and direct your own study. It's the only way to learn. Simple too, I don't doubt you know how either, basically you cram like the laziest people around you. In 2 weeks you cram the exact same way that the loafers do at the library and compress a year's study down to a manageable size. You do that on a regular basis and you'll start to see that cramming 50 years of study into half a decade and having time left over for a life is a snap. HA! Penyulap ☏ 18:49, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)

• Wikipedians too apathetic to bother making categories