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Revision as of 16:39, 26 August 2012 editWilliam M. Connolley (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers66,011 edits →Dishonest edit summaries: new section← Previous edit Revision as of 19:38, 26 August 2012 edit undoJagged 85 (talk | contribs)87,237 edits →Dishonest edit summariesNext edit →
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Please do not use dishonest edit summaries, as you did . The <nowiki>{{Jagged 85 shortened}}</nowiki> tag is not an "OR" tag - it is, as you know very well, a reference to your previous abuse of references ] (]) 16:39, 26 August 2012 (UTC) Please do not use dishonest edit summaries, as you did . The <nowiki>{{Jagged 85 shortened}}</nowiki> tag is not an "OR" tag - it is, as you know very well, a reference to your previous abuse of references ] (]) 16:39, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
:That tag is ] created by ] (including yourself), who, as we all know, have been abusing and destroying many articles on Misplaced Pages left, right, and center, out of ] over a very explicitly obvious ] agenda ("It has been found that many edits involve the undue promotion of Islamic and other non-European scholarship and achievements"), using whatever ] they can. Don't even bother trying to go there with me. The fact remains is that your tag is ]. Either use a proper Wikpedia tag or don't use any at all. ] (]) 19:38, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:38, 26 August 2012

This user is one of the 400 most active English Wikipedians of all time.

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Video Games w/ Floating Island

Hi Jagged 85. I noticed that you recently added a few examples of video games with floating islands in them. Because of the frequency of that theme in video games, it was recommended here that the list be kept small with only key examples. In my opinion, the standard should be games that are essentially based around the floating island theme and that and are at least somewhat widely known. The Ys, Final Fantasy, Mana, and Chrono examples don't seem to be good fits for the type of limited list recommended. Do you think any of those really need to be included? SeiADP (talk) 21:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

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Military Historian of the Year

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The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012

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SMS sales

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Sega_Master_System&action=historysubmit&diff=342052874&oldid=342035199 I think this is the best thing you've got for now. 10 million, book source, one source - so no need for a footnote. No need for "as of" either, since it's supposedly a final number. It's the best we've got for now unless consensus shifts towards 13 million again, but that's doubtful. Even just as a temporary measure, this is worthy of the SMS, Console Wars, 3rd gen, and best selling consoles articles.--SexyKick 08:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Other Stuff

Hi, I noticed that you contributed heavily to articles like Islamic inventions in the past (those articles that say "this article used sources which are misrepresentative" kept proping up so I looked at their histories and was surprised to find a few months ago they were massively detailed) - well I checked out the old revisions for it and found that there were some good sources to back up the claims of Islamic inventions. I'm a bit surprised as to why they were deleted so much. Could you please contribute and shift some of that knowledge over to the MuslimWiki here please? ChainedButFree (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Long story short: Nearly two years ago, several Eurocentric witch-hunting users, also known as the "Jagged 85 cleanup" commitee, had issues with my "undue promotion of Islamic and other non-European scholarship and achievements", and so they launched a propaganda campaign to tar my image and present me as an editor who "persistently misused sources" by cherry-picking the worst possible edits I had ever made at Misplaced Pages and presenting them as if all of my 60,000+ edits were of a similarly bad quality (when in fact only less than 1% of my edits were like that). In the months leading up to that RfC, they managed to wear me down with an on-going barrage of personal attacks. Under all that stress, I eventually gave up and let them have their way. They took this as a sign that it's okay to overzealously delete everything I've ever contributed to all the Islamic-related articles, successfully managing to maintain the Eurocentric status quo that they held in high regard. Anyway, I had no idea there was any MuslimWiki. Is it a new site? Seems like an interesting project. You can feel free to look through my editing history from two or more years ago (around April 2010 and earlier) and use any of that material for the MuslimWiki project. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 23:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

That's disgraceful. I didn't realise the racism on Misplaced Pages was that bad. Could you possibly help in gathering all of this data (I don't know how many articles were butchered) but we could use them definitely somewhere. This knowledge must get out to the public somehow, especially if there are good sources out there for it. I googled your name you have an article dedicated to you on this subject on that notorious Islamophobic website WikiIslam. I'm not sure if you are aware of that. The MuslimWiki project isn't new. Its just been dead over the last few years because not that many people knew about it. There is an editor over there who's been working furiously to get it restarted. He asked for a bunch of help for it on some Islamic forums and thats when I started to look for some sources on Misplaced Pages. I kept finding those article banners and eventually found out about you. Are there any other editors which could help with this project? I spent a good hour or two reading up on that "rfc" and I didn't see anywhere where they actually discussed the majority of the sources just merely attacked you. I'm surprised again why they didn't take it seriously and discuss the majority of the sources they then deleted off the articles. We could use you a good editor like you over at MuslimWiki. Can I contact you by email here on Misplaced Pages? ChainedButFree (talk) 14:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind contributing to MuslimWiki at some time in the near future, but for now, I'll just provide a list of links to previous versions of some of the deleted/truncated articles (to the last version I edited before deletion/truncation) here:

As you can see, quite a lot of pages have been "purged". To find more such articles before they were truncated, simply look at the history pages of various Islamic-related articles (which you can find through links in the above articles) and look for the versions dating back to around April 2010 or earlier. While these earlier versions are far from perfect, they are certainly better than the current truncated (or in some cases non-existent) versions and contain a lot of useful material and sources that you can use, so feel free to add any of that to MuslimWiki. Good luck with the MuslimWiki project!

Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 18:44, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow. That's unbelievable. I can't believe they got away with this kind of stuff. I don't understand why they would delete your ENTIRE contributions. Doesn't this go against Misplaced Pages policy? Can't you complain to some admins over this? I mean there's thousands of sources there. Simply deleting masses of information is just ugly. Anyways thanks for the information. The racism thats on Misplaced Pages should be exposed. ChainedButFree (talk) 22:42, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is based on reliable sources, and Jagged 85 has abused Misplaced Pages by misusing sources: essentially making stuff up that is not in the source. Please stop commenting on issues that you have not properly investigated. Johnuniq (talk) 22:58, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The problem is that Misplaced Pages itself suffers from an inherently large amount of systematic bias. Since most Wikipedians are obviously from an English-speaking Western background, Misplaced Pages will naturally be biased towards Western (or more specifically Anglo) interests by default. This systematic bias couldn't be anymore obvious than the witch-hunt that was directed at me two years ago. The Eurocentric agenda of this witch-hunting "Jagged 85 cleanup" committee is evident from their very goal of undoing "the undue promotion of Islamic and other non-European scholarship and achievements." No amount of smear campaign or propaganda on their parts (i.e. the still unproven false allegations about me consistently "abusing" or "misusing sources", when they themselves have misrepresented sources plenty of times) could possibly hide their blatantly Eurocentric agenda. It's not just me either, but there have been plenty of editors who spoke out against their uncalled-for deletions of entire articles (or even just editors who simply want to improve the articles) only to end up on the receiving end of personal attacks and harassment from that very same self-righteous witch-hunting committee. The amount of bigotry and harassment from these few overzealous editors is what's holding back those Islamic-related articles from ever improving beyond the shambled stubs they've turned them into. Jagged 85 (talk) 23:34, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
No worries Jagged. I'm not surprised given the racist history of Whites in the past that this stuff might happen. It happened to Africans and what a disgrace that was. Thanks for pointing out those articles once again. I've copied and saved many of them and I'll investigate the sources for them. They seem legitimate. Most of the internet sources back up what you've written, if someone were to just randomly browse those they'd find that Islamic invention stuff to be true (its funny how only a few editors ganged up together when your articles were left there for months and years surely someone would have noticed the errors you'd made in less than a week. I just don't believe the Jagged 85 committee - you should report them, you can't just mass delete contributions based on a few errors and what about other editors contributions?). Given the nature of Islamophobia in White countries today its natural that they would attempt to destroy information or hide it as they did to Jewish contributions a few decades ago. Its just sad that this behaviour is still prevalent today. Also with respect to Eurocentracism yes I agree, many inventions of civilisations were passed off as "White" during colonialism when a lot of this knowledge was stolen (The BBC series on Islamic Science proved this to be true especially with respect to the Renaissance). Also are there other editors that I may contact that can help with salvaging this project? ChainedButFree (talk) 01:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
If you have reason to believe that a group of editors is destroying or hiding information, please report it at WP:ANI because that would be a very serious problem if true. Conversely, you should retract the comments you have made above if reading WP:Jagged 85 cleanup changes your opinion. Johnuniq (talk) 02:46, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Many instances of complete misrepresentation were explicitly documented (see for example Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Jagged_85/Evidence). Although I can't find the quote right now, I distinctly recall that Jagged 85 said himself that he was doing edits extremely quickly, which is not surprising given the 60,000 or so edits, many with complex journal references as sources. He said himself that he was getting partial quotes through the internet rather than reading the sources carefully before using them. Finally, Jagged 85 received numerous notifications of the problems from various editors, and did not respond promptly (in some cases not responding at all). He also didn't help to clean up the problems. II | (t - c) 06:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

ChainedButFree, I appreciate the sentiments, but I think you're better off spending your time contributing to the MuslimWiki project rather than trying to undo the Eurocentric systematic bias that exists here on Misplaced Pages (mainly when it comes to articles dealing with serious subjects like history, politics, religion, and science). I've already gotten used to the false allegations, rumours, propaganda, slander, witch-hunting, and what not, but that's sometimes the price you have to pay when you start becoming too influential for your own good. When you have over 60,000 contributions, much of it towards topics that very few Wikipedians ever pay attention to, you're bound to create enemies, not to mention the sheer volume of contributions makes it easy for them to cherry-pick holes in them and use that against you. Anyway, it's nice to know that an alternative MuslimWiki exists to document the kind of stuff that gets systematically erased and overzealously deleted here on Misplaced Pages. I'll try make contributions to the MuslimWiki project some time in the near future, but for now, I wish you the best of luck with the MuslimWiki project. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 15:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah no problem Jagged. You're work wasn't in vain. But just to be doubly sure I've been cross referencing everything you wrote. Anyone can tell that that rfc was about one thing only, mass deleting information by cherry picking. The astonishing thing is they didn't even check every single source and that is what is particularly disturbing. That is how I know you're in the right. Most of the books are online, and most of the journals are online too that give credit to Muslim civilisation for these things. To mass delete not only YOUR contributions would have been intolerable without checking facts but to mass delete OTHERS contributions is where it got me. Oh and I wasn't really trying to fight anything off here on Misplaced Pages, I just need a place for this knowledge to exist somewhere at the moment where it can be kept safe from zealots. Keep your chin up Jagged. Obviously I can't go up against systematic racists and racism (I have a hunch that that committee, at least one of the members belonged to that WikiIslam website that just paints Muslims so horribly and badly otherwise it wouldn't even be there). I can't stand racism Whites really need to sort out this ugly trait they have between themselves. I mean with parts of the Muslim world rising economically and former enslaved colonies getting much stronger (China, India, Malaysia and Indonesia) it won't be long before Whites are made the scapegoats. And who will care? No one that's for sure. They're just Whites. And its just racism at the end of the day. I mean they do have a long history of it. And yeah, join the project. That's what I'm going to be doing soon. I'll see you there. Until then take care. ChainedButFree (talk) 15:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012

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query

this is a query as to the nature of the edit 01:35, 25 March 2010‎ Jagged 85 . (15,184 bytes) (+999)‎ . . (added references) to Infinity (philosophy), this is being queried as the material was in the first instance added by User : Ooga131booga 15:18, 24 June 2007‎ , (as this means the referencing isn't according to the content)

and also that an additional article has been created Infinity (Oriental thought) that requires clarification as to this referencing please Drift chambers (talk) 09:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

just wanting to know how the references align to the content, as some of the Ooga131booga content has now been cut from the first article, and this would therefore be required to be adjusted to reflect this ( by changes to the reference list ) Drift chambers (talk) 09:22, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

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GA reassessment

A GA reassessment is going on for Krrish here. Feel free to drop by for commenting. Thanks. Secret of success (talk) 13:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 sales

You could use VGChartz to source the 5.19M sales until a more reliable source is found? :) Salvidrim! 12:49, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

WP:VG/RS lists VGChartz as an unreliable source, so I don't really think that's such a good idea. Do you know of any alternative sources? Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 13:45, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I've tried looking to no avail; I know VGChartz is not considered reliable. Salvidrim! 14:01, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXII, March 2012

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Bengali culture

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A barnstar for you

The Modest Barnstar
You are among the top 5% of most active Wikipedians this past month! 66.87.7.36 (talk) 20:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


Wow, thanks. I really appreciate it! Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 21:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

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Central Asian Cinema

Hi! A new section entitled 'Central Asian Cinema' needs to be added to the box in the article Cinema of Asia. I have wrote extensively about the Cinema of Uzbekistan which is part of Central Asian cinema. I can't add a section myself because a template is used in the article. Can you help out? Nataev (talk) 18:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Done! I've just added Central Asia to Template:Asian cinema along with a few other changes. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 20:29, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! Great job! Nataev (talk) 11:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

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An award for you

A Barnstar! Golden Wiki Award
Thanks for your recent contributions! 67.80.64.128 (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


Thank you, 67.80.64.128. I really appreciate it. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 01:19, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

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April 2012

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I have noticed that some of your recent genre changes, such as the one you made to Tik Tok, have conflicted with our neutral point of view and verifiability policies. While we invite all users to contribute constructively to Misplaced Pages, we urge all editors to provide reliable sources for edits made. When others disagree, we recommend you to seek consensus for certain edits. Thank you. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 19:11, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

WikiThanks

WikiThanks
WikiThanks

In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 67.80.64.128 (talk) 13:51, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


Thanks again. I really appreciate it. Jagged 85 (talk) 16:28, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIII, April 2012

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May 2012

Please refrain from changing genres, as you did to New jack swing, without providing a source and without establishing a consensus on the article's talk page first. Genre changes to suit your own point of view are considered disruptive. Thank you. Dan56 (talk) 03:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012

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GOCE July 2012 Copy Edit Drive

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Rocket 88 (Original Version) - Ike Turner Jackie Brenston 2.ogg

A tag has been placed on File:Rocket 88 (Original Version) - Ike Turner Jackie Brenston 2.ogg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Misplaced Pages (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Jagged 85 (talk) 08:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Origins of rock and roll

Just a note to say that I appreciate all the work you're doing there, without necessarily agreeing with every detail! I was planning to wait until you'd "finished" before commenting (if I need to), but if there are any points you'd like to discuss as you go through it I'm happy to do that. One thought - do you think there are too many samples included now? Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I guess you messaged me at the right time, because I am more or less finished adding samples to the article. The reason why I started adding samples to the article is because, after looking at the blues article, I noticed how the samples on the page are helpful in giving a general idea on the evolution of the blues, so I thought it might be a good idea to do the same for the origins of rock and roll article. The number of samples I've added now are about the same as how many the blues article has. Is it too many? I'm not too sure myself. I have a habit of adding excessive detail, so maybe it's better for others to judge whether some of those details are necessary or unnecessary. Jagged 85 (talk) 09:53, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

File:Phuture - Acid Tracks.ogg

Each usage of a non-free file requires its own specific rationale, explaining what the sample is adding to that particular article, why it needs to be there and why it could not be replaced with free media. There's technically no limit on how many articles a file can be in (or how many files can be in an article) if the file genuinely meets the NFCC in all cases, but, generally, a large quantity of usages is going to raise eyebrows. If in doubt, do not include. J Milburn (talk) 22:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

For instance, this addition is very clearly not warranted. There is a passing mention of the song, and no detailed analysis of the musical content. As already mentioned, there's no specific rationale for the use, and nor could there be, unless the article were significantly expanded. Even then, it would not be used in that section. J Milburn (talk) 22:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
My rationale for including "Acid Tracks" in the articles House music, Chicago house, and especially Acid house, is that it is an important milestone in those genres, defining what acid house sounded like and what future Chicago house records sounded like after its release. I can understand why you tagged House music and Chicago house, because they don't really discuss the song in much detail, but Acid house does clearly discuss the song in some detail, so I don't see why that article should be tagged as well. Nevertheless, I'll try to add more detail in the articles to justify its inclusion. Jagged 85 (talk) 23:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
If there's one non-free song which should be allowed to exist as a sample in the acid house article, "Acid Tracks" is the one. There's really no understating the importance of that song. Second choice would be the hit radio remix of "This is Acid", but that song is kind of an anomaly, a combination of Chicago, New York, and UK styles; it's more a popular product of the acid house scene, not so much a defining example of the genre.
FWIW, this kind of pushback is why I decided not to pursue adding samples to music genre articles. :/ —mjb (talk) 04:12, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
From your explanation, I can certainly see that this sample is one which potentially belongs in these articles. However, I'm sorry, but sections titled "Rationale of fair use in Acid house, Chicago house, and House music" on image pages is still not encouraging. When a non-free file is used in multiple articles, each usage requires its own separate rationale explaining specifically what the image adds to each article. Template:Non-free image data and its sister template (with one of the sisiter template for each usage) can be helpful in cases like this, to ensure that all the needed information is included. J Milburn (talk) 09:06, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
It looks like Jagged 85 has provided separate rationales now, and I'm convinced he's operating in good faith. However, the rationales all say the same thing: "It illustrates an educational article that specifically discusses the song from which this sample was taken. The section of music used is discussed in the article in relation to the song's lyrics, musical and vocal style, and may contain part of the song's chorus."
If I understand correctly, some degree of customization is necessary for each rationale. The rationale should not just be a list of reasons why the sample is harmless; it needs to also say things like we said above, explaining why this sample is ideal for inclusion in this particular article. (And "Acid Tracks" being instrumental, it doesn't make sense to talk about its lyrics, chorus, and vocal style...) —mjb (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Good point. I've now provided an individual reason for each rationale, based on what we've already discussed above. Jagged 85 (talk) 13:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:J-Lo - I'm Real.ogg)

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Sgt. Pepper Straw Poll

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The Bugle: Issue LXXVI, July 2012

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Dishonest edit summaries

Please do not use dishonest edit summaries, as you did here. The {{Jagged 85 shortened}} tag is not an "OR" tag - it is, as you know very well, a reference to your previous abuse of references William M. Connolley (talk) 16:39, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

That tag is original resarch created by several editors (including yourself), who, as we all know, have been abusing and destroying many articles on Misplaced Pages left, right, and center, out of sheer spite over a very explicitly obvious Eurocentric agenda ("It has been found that many edits involve the undue promotion of Islamic and other non-European scholarship and achievements"), using whatever propaganda they can. Don't even bother trying to go there with me. The fact remains is that your tag is original resarch. Either use a proper Wikpedia tag or don't use any at all. Jagged 85 (talk) 19:38, 26 August 2012 (UTC)