Misplaced Pages

References

As it is obvious this article is related to both Azeri’s and armenians and references supporting either of them are not reliable. The references part merely includes links to pages supporting armenian ideas plus a link pointing to BBC, which concerns the condolences to the family of Gurgen Markaryan. This makes the article look biased towards armenians.Amir.azeri (talk) 19:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Conviction

At present, Ramil Safarov is a convict. He needs to be listed as such. The sections of Hungarian criminal code he was held to have violated need to be listed as well as the legal rulings. All this is absent in the present presentation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.86.47.131 (talk) 13:36, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

He was convicted for preparations for murder and for pre-planned murder committed for a nefarious reason with extreme cruelty (direct translation, I am not familiar with US legal expressions - original is "emberölés előkészülete" and "előre kitervelten, aljas indokból, különös kegyetlenséggel elkövetett emberölés"). The sentence was imprisonment for life, with at least 30 years before parole, plus expulsion from Hungary for 10 years. --Tgr (talk) 17:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Reference to Varoujan Garabedian

I believe this link must be provided, as these two people were clearly motivated by similar ideas and had similar life paths. The 'See also' section does not necessarily have to contain links pertaining specifically to the content of the article. Parishan (talk) 02:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Disagree; the only thing the two share is that they were convicted of murder. Neither the ideology nor the way of murder seem to match. If we're going to have links to similar cases, I think there are cases which are way more similar, especially given the weapon of choice, such as the Afula axe attack and Bat Ayin axe attack. Chaojoker (talk) 03:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

De facto and de jure ASALA's activities, and Garabedian's particularly, have no connection with this case, therefore I see no reason why it should be added.--Yerevanci (talk) 03:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

Ramil Safarov → Murder of Gurgen Margaryan – Per naming of articles of this nature as discussed at Talk:Murder of Yeardley Love#Move discussion, and as the only reason for Safarov's fame is his axing of an Armenian officer at Partnership for Peace. Chaojoker (talk) 02:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC) Keep. Most of the content is related to events happening either prior or long after the incident. Parishan (talk) 02:55, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

And all those events have to do with his murder. Chaojoker (talk) 03:02, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

The murder issue was dealt with when Safarov received his sentence back in 2006. The recent developments have to do with his extradition, rather than with the murder. Parishan (talk) 03:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Neither would there be a single news article about him nor would there be an extradiction if it wasn't for his murder. The only reason this Wiki article exists is becuase he chose to axe someone to death in his sleep, so its the murder that brought him prominence, hence the choice for naming. Chaojoker (talk) 03:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

• Move because that is widely acceptable on Misplaced Pages. --Yerevanci (talk) 03:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. Sources describe Ramil Safarov directly enough to overcome WP:BLP1E. Content focusing on the murder belongs at Gurgen Margaryan. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

See WP:BLP1E. None of its three conditions are met...

• Reliable sources covering his Ramil_Safarov#Extradition and pardon are beyond the single event of the murder. BIO1E/BLP1E are not about excluding cases where a running affair can be traced back to a single event, but where there was only the single event that was of any significance.
• "If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. " Neither is the case. There are ramifications of the event of international significance, and this person is going to remain notorious indefinately.
• "the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented". Yes, this individual is central to the event. Aspects of the event are uncertain (with the uncertainty well documented), but it is not that it is not certain that Ramil was centrally involved.

To the extent that this article can be chanelled into the "Murder of Gurgen Margaryan", it should be merged to Gurgen_Margaryan#Murder, but there is much here that doesn't belong there, with everythign else being centred on Ramil. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

• Agree, this guy is famous only because of this case. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - The article is about the man not the incident. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 04:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Axe photo

The restored photo, as indicated in the file description, is not the actual axe used in the murder. Putting an ordinary, unrelated axe does not confer any encyclopedical value. Brandmeister 17:32, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

There is no specification of the axe used by Safarov. During the trial Safarov described it as "The handle of the axe was around 1 meter long and the iron part was red, color of the light tree." Carpenter's axe, which is pictured on the photo, is the most common type of axe. --Yerevanci (talk) 18:08, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

The axe on the image does not even look similar to what Safarov described. So it's better to remove, especially given that there is no specification of the axe used. Brandmeister 18:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

This is the murder weapon; I doubt a free image exists. --Tgr (talk) 20:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this image similar to that? --Yerevanci (talk) 21:25, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

The one actually used in the murder is almost twice as long, more an axe than a hatchet. Why are we so insistent on belittling the intelligence of the reader here? There's a Wikilink for the axe so they can just click on it just in case they don't know what one looks like.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:10, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

It's not about showing the reader how an axe looks like. Putting up a picture of the instrument of murder is a common on Misplaced Pages. Plus, there is no image in this article and a photo of it wouldn't harm.--Yerevanci (talk) 22:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Hungarian Government reaction

This official reaction might be useful http://www.kormany.hu/en/ministry-of-foreign-affairs/news/press-release — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.221.149.121 (talk) 20:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, just added to the article.

The press release is archived here - This is the Hungarian version, which is archived here WhisperToMe (talk) 22:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Motive of the murder

Let me know what kind of facts are needed to prove that the motive of this murder was Ethnic hatred?--Yerevanci (talk) 22:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

A conviction that states that it was racially aggravated murder. Anything else is supposition. It might be well founded supposition, but we do not post our assumptions as facts. Kevin McE (talk) 22:43, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? He was convicted in a murder and sentenced to life in prison. Also, Safarov confessed that he killed Margaryan because of his ethnicity.--Yerevanci (talk) 22:52, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

More exactly: he said he killed the Armenian because Margaryan "mocked him and desecrated his country's (Azerbaijan) symbols." --Norden1990 (talk) 23:17, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

That was asserted in court and never proven. Balázs Kuti, Margaryan's roommate, said that Margaryan and Safarov, and generally the rest of the officers, had never had any conflict. Safarov also told the police that he was revengeful against the entire Armenian nation. I think his actions speak for themselves. Chaojoker (talk) 23:24, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Hero

I would suggest refraining from the word "hero" - in this case it is a personal impression of the news authors and the presence of that word in the article is non-neutral, making it look like an essay. Also the word is in the Words to watch area. Brandmeister 01:46, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I would agree if the context was that the article stated him to be a hero, or stated that he was officially designated as a hero. However, the article states that "he was greeted as a national hero", and "is considered by many in Azerbaijan to be a hero", both of which are confirmed by multiple neutral sources as mentioned in the article. Taking those away without reliable sources to prove their inaccuracy leaves the impression of trying to subdue the reality of the occurances. Chaojoker (talk) 03:18, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

POV

budapest.sumgait.info is a pro-Armenian website. Should not be seen as a reliable source. Esc2003 (talk) 13:02, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

It's against Misplaced Pages rules to discriminate against websites because their Armenian or Azerbaijani. If you have specific reason to belive it's not reliable, lets discuss it. George Spurlin (talk) 13:07, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't need to be told. Please examine. Esc2003 (talk) 13:18, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Where is the original source of this information? If the original source is unknown. this information can not count correctly. Esc2003 (talk) 14:31, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

budapest.sumgait.info is used to provide the full text of the murdrer's interrogation. Nothing is intepreted in there. Chaojoker (talk) 15:16, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

How can a translation of protocol be pro- or con-? --Aleksey Chalabyan a.k.a. Xelgen (talk) 20:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I said a simple thing: The original source? Esc2003 (talk) 23:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic hatred

After I finished I lit a cigarette. I was smoking, smoking and then I threw it. First it fell on the chest of the Armenian, then from there onto the bedclothes.

Why did you throw the cigarette onto the body?

Since I hate them so much and I was prepared for the revenge for so long it was a relieve for me. As long as I didn’t care about him it didn’t mean whether I threw the cigarette onto the ground, or on his bed or into his eyes.