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Revision as of 18:08, 24 September 2012 editDirector (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers58,714 edits →Statement by DIREKTOR← Previous edit Revision as of 04:45, 25 September 2012 edit undoTimotheus Canens (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators38,430 edits →Factocop: close, 3 mo topic banNext edit →
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== Factocop == == Factocop ==
{{hat|Blocked 48h by {{user|SilkTork}}; topic banned 3 months. ] (]) 04:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)}}

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


===Request concerning Factocop=== ===Request concerning Factocop===
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*I have given Factocop a 48 block for . ''']''' ''']''' 21:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC) *I have given Factocop a 48 block for . ''']''' ''']''' 21:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Closing with 3 months topic ban, then. ] (]) 04:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
{{hab}}


== Ximhua == == Ximhua ==

Revision as of 04:45, 25 September 2012

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    Factocop

    Blocked 48h by SilkTork (talk · contribs); topic banned 3 months. T. Canens (talk) 04:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    Request concerning Factocop

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Mo ainm~Talk 15:19, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Factocop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Ban Appeals Subcommittee#User:Factocop unblock conditions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 09:28, 11 September 2012 Revert, therefore a violation of "Factocop can make no actions as described in WP:Revert"
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    Not required

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The edit has previously been made by Hackneyhound (talk · contribs) here (and at User talk:Hackneyhound#Hackneyhound there is a "distinct suspicion" voiced by a member of the Arbitration Committee as to Hackneyhound being a sock of Factocop). It was also made more recently (May 2012 for the last identified socking) by 147.114.44.209 (talk · contribs) here, and that IP was subsequently blocked per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Factocop/Archive#18 May 2012 for being a known sock of Factocop. See also these additions, the entire discussion is worth looking over as well since there is no doubt the IP is Factocop. So given Factocop's socks have made this particular edit before, there can't be an argument he was unaware it was a revert since he's reverting to his preferred version. Mo ainm~Talk 15:19, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    @ Factocop, the issue isn't just "making the same edit as an IP made 18 edits ago", but that he, Factocop, was the IP referred to so he, Factocop, was obviously aware it was a revert. Mo ainm~Talk 21:20, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    @ Factocop, I didn't see the post you made on the talk page, I noticed a comment you made on another users talk page. But the fact of the matter is that you restored the page to a version you previously wanted as evident by your socks making the same edit.Mo ainm~Talk 09:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    So if you do not have a watcher set up for the Lough Neagh Page, how did you come across my edit?
    This is in an email response from silktork:

    You can make an edit of the current version of a page and manually add sourced material, and/or remove inappropriate material, and/or amend current text in a constructive manner.

    If you have any doubt as to if your action may be challenged then I strongly suggest you raise the issue on the talkpage and either get support for your action, or see if there are no objections after a reasonable amount of time has passed (the amount of time would depend on the significance of the edit and the page itself, but I would say at least 24 hours).

    I think I have followed these instructions. I can not do much more. I think the case here is that Mo seen my name and thought gotcha which is completely the wrong attitude to have. I have not tried to game anyone. I have simply tried to make a constructive edit, thats all.Factocop (talk) 10:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Diff of notification about this request


    Discussion concerning Factocop

    Statement by Factocop

    So making the same edit as an IP made 18 edits ago is a revert???? I started a discussion topic 5 days ago on WP:Lough_Neagh and outlined my proposed edit. Had Mo been concerned with the edit, he/she should of raised the issue there. Instead no response came and now he/she is trying to have my blocked again by gaming my sanction. What a waste of admin time.Factocop (talk) 19:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    That IP was judged to be YOU. Meanwhile, you were blocked for nearly 2 years, and just 5 days after being unblocked, you're just begging to get blocked again. How does that serve your purposes? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    I have not done anything wrong. If you actually looked at my edit on the Lough Neagh talk page you would see that. And I have not made a revert. I don't see what issue you have with this. This is just Mo trying to get me blocked again. I had already warned arbcom of this gaming of my sanctions prior to my unblock. Is an edit made 4 months later and either side of 18 other edits a revert? seriously? Factocop (talk) 22:45, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    Reverting to your sock's version is indeed a revert. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:04, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    @Mo, its not a revert so I am not in breach of any sanctions. If you were so concerned with my edit why did you not raise this at the lough neagh talkpage?Factocop (talk) 22:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    @Cailil: Just out of curiousity....Those accounts are dead. And their edits were deemed null and void and were discounted in discussions and votes because they were supposed sock accounts. So why are they discounted then but counted against me now?
    And in any case why would anyone want to block a user for making constructive edits? Are we saying that I can only make edits that do not agree with previous edits and so should only make non constructive edits to avoid a block? Advice from Silktort was to leave it 24 hrs before making an edit previously proposed on the talk page to be on the safe side in this case ive left it 5 days.Factocop (talk) 15:43, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

    Regarding Cailals last comment. I did nit request aid from Burundi, nor is that user blocked. You say assume good faith yet no good faith was shown in me after only one single edit. I'll take note of your comment but assuming good faith is a two way street and I have yet to see you fire of a warning at Mo, though pointless now as thst user has since retired. I think this should be marked to close. It clear that I have not broken my sanctions.Factocop (talk) 16:09, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

    @Cailil, Sorry but I was not aware of WP:POLEMIC, and I cleaned my talkpage as soon as silktort notified me. Also posting 1 single comment on a user talk page is not Hounding!!!. @EdJohnston, as Elen has already confirmed, I did nothing wrong by making an edit after waiting for 5 days on a talkpage. Also Elen also highlighted that it was a sensible edit. Why if changing 'United Kingdom' to 'Northern Ireland' is a sensible edit would you want to have me blocked for making this edit? seriously? Help me out here.Factocop (talk) 17:39, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

    Apparently my behaviour is appalling yet Admins don't even respond to questions . Thanks for the help. This isnt an enforcement case, this is a witch hunt.Factocop (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Factocop

    OK, someone explain to me why changing it from United Kingdom to Northern Ireland is a bad thing, given that Carlingford Lough and Lough Foyle both say Northern Ireland. Why edit war to keep this one at United Kingdom? I note that Factocop even asked on the talkpage if anyone objected to bringing it into line with other articles, days before he made the edit. I came here ready to block Factocop myself, but appears a perfectly sound edit, should never have been changed to United Kingdom in the first place. I think this is a specious complaint. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    Why is Factocop, or anyone else guilty of sockpuppetry, allowed to return an article to their own sockpuppet's preferred version? There was no compelling reason for Factocop to make this revert himself... unless he was gaming the system, to see what he could get away with. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:12, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    The revert restriction is designed to prevent potential conflict with dissenting editors. Since this edit was proposed previously to no objection, and Factocop's infringement appears inadvertent, I think a teleological interpretation of the restrictions should be employed and some lenity provided. Ankh.Morpork 23:28, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    It's not "inadvertent". He reverted to his own sockpuppet's version. He's gaming the system. And if you fall for it, he's gaming you as well. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:37, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    Maybe. But I don't have a problem in being 'gamed' if it involves editors discussing their edits 5 days before they are made and acting according to that response. I agree that it was a revert, I still think common sense should prevail.
    I do note that the nature of this edit has previously been fiercely contested on the talk page, although 2009 seemed the last time it was discussed, and it is probable that the editor was aware of the significance of his change. Still, I am hesitant to advocate sanctions for ill-advised but possibly well-intentioned editing. Ankh.Morpork 23:55, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    He didn't "discuss it" with anyone. He posted a comment on the talk page, waited a few days, probably hoping no one would notice, and then reverted to his sockpuppet's version. If he were sincere about staying within his restrictions, he would go to some of the other recent editors directly and discuss it with them. That wouldn't do, of course, because they might say "No". Better to just do it himself, skirt his restrictions, and see if gullible sorts like yourself are willing to let him get away with it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:04, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    obviously Mo noticed the comment on the talk page or we wouldnt be here. So the question is why did he/she wait for me to make my proposed edit before doing anything about it? probably to try this stunt. Misplaced Pages should be about making content better, not getting user blocked to keep your own preferred content as Mo has employed here.Factocop (talk) 08:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    @Bugs, I was actually ready to block him - I still believe Hackneyhound and Gravyring were his socks, and the IP is definitely him. But then I spotted the note, and the fact that other articles use the formulation he was adding. So what is the problem with the edit that it keeps being contested here, but not on the other two articles? Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:06, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    I have no idea. Maybe it should be reverted. But not by Factocop. Put it this way: I myself am under an arbcom restriction. I have no problem staying within the restriction. If I can, anyone can - unless they are deliberately trying to erode the restriction. There was no compelling reason for him to change that item, except to try to chip away at his restriction. If he were honest and sincere, he could ask someone else about it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    Yes thats correct Bugs, I only wanted access to Wiki again to flaunt my restrictions. Dont be so daft! The majority of editors are here to improve articles. My edit improved the article. I posted on the talk page of which I am sure has a number of involved 'watchers'. I left it 5 days before making the edit. What more can I do? Should I go to every user watching the page and force them to join the discussion? No, that just isnt possible. Mo was obviously watching the page and chose not to join the discussion, and still hasnt passed comment at the page. So please be more reasonable. Factocop (talk) 09:09, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
    Your being in denial about your socking is what you call reasonable? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 11:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
    Since I have been unblocked I have not denied anything regarding my past. And to my knowledge this is not an SPI case so whats your point? Jumping on the bandwagon and trying to get me blocked for going about things in the correct mannner is hardly reasonable. Factocop (talk) 13:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
    OK, then you're admitting that it was your own sockpuppet you reverted to. Very good. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
    thanks bugsy for your constructive input.Factocop (talk) 22:51, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
    That was a typo, now fixed. But as you continue to deny sockpuppetry, you're in no position to be demanding "assume good faith" from other users. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:07, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

    Fair enough, but I would of expected a grace period before being accused of breaking my sanctions. Not after 1 single edit, so I apologise if my back is up but I didnt appreciate being hounded so soon after a 2 year block. I'm sure you would feel the same in my position.Factocop (talk) 09:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

    If you're talking to me... No, I wouldn't "feel the same", because unlike you, I don't do sockpuppetry. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:33, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    Well if your ever falsely indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry, you would probably set up alternate accounts aswell. Ohh well, not going to give you anymore of my precious time.
    Move this to close. Factocop (talk) 13:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    No, I wouldn't. Unlike you, I do have some integrity. Move to keep it open until Factocop explicitly owns up to violating the rules against sockpuppetry. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    Difficult to grasp but this isn't an SPI case, this is to determine whether I have broken my sanctions. Guess what? I haven't. Move to close. And Bugsy please refrain from personal attacks.Factocop (talk) 21:04, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    You reverted to your sockpuppet's version. That indicates a lack of integrity. And it also indicates why you shouldn't be allowed to edit. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    There is a path of honor for you, though. You could go to the blocking admin and/or to your most trusted admin, and tell them what your IP address is and let them verify it. Then you'll demonstrate integrity. If you're unwilling to do that, then you're guilty as charged and should not be allowed to edit. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:48, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    huh???? Blocking admin? But I'm not blocked. And what am I charged with? The only thing you have highlighted is your incivility. Please refrain from further personal attacks.Factocop (talk) 22:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    You're funny. Must be that Irish sense of humor. You made an edit under your IP while you were blocked, and it was reverted. And as soon as they unblocked you, you reinstated that edit. If that's integrity, then I'm the King of Sweden. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    re_instated what edit? ohh do you mean the edit i had announced 5 days before in the talkpage, outlining my rationale. no objection came so i made the edit. do you mean that edit? ok you got me. guilty as charged. Factocop (talk) 23:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
    When or if you decide to demonstrate some good faith and stop jerking everybody around, be sure and place a notice on your user page. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
    I don't see what any of your comments have to do with this case and whether I have broken my sanctions? Please refrain from personal attacks. Factocop (talk) 08:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
    I think take everything Baseball_bugs says with a pinch of salt. It seems that Bugsy has a habit of disruptive editing on arbitration/ANI pages. see here ].Factocop (talk) 12:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

    Statement by Jon C.

    Hardly a revert, is it? Whose actions has Factocop undone? — Jon C. 15:51, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    According to this, if the editor's edit summary is on the mark, (and this indicates it was), Factocop was putting it back to where a sock of his own had put it, some 4 months ago. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comment by Beyond My Ken

    • The solution here seems quite easy. If the change made by Factocop was, as Elen saya it was, an improvement, then some other editor not under any applicable restriction should take on the WP:BURDEN of that edit. Then Factocop should be sanctioned, to whatever degree the examining admins think is appropriate, for clearly breaking his restrictions and making a revert. (It is what it is.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:25, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


    Comment by SilkTork

    • It is not a revert under the terms of Factocop's conditions. It was an edit. It was made after Factocop initiated a discussion on the talkpage and waited a reasonable length of time for a response. He has complied with the terms imposed on him. He is, as is any other Misplaced Pages editor, allowed to "amend current text in a constructive manner". There is now a discussion taking place on Talk:Lough Neagh which is how it should be, and how it should have been in the first place. I'm a little disappointed that nobody responded to a discussion for over five days, but the edit is reverted within 31 minutes. Problems arise when people revert rather than discuss. It is not in the spirit of Misplaced Pages that anyone is sanctioned for initiating a discussion on an edit, waiting for five days for a response, and then actioning the edit because nobody has objected. That can never be the wrong thing to do. It is also noteworthy that Factocop has not reverted back, but is discussing the edit on the talkpage. This is exactly the sort of behaviour we want from all editors. My only comment to Factocop would be in future to ensure that discussions are started in new sections rather than tagged onto existing discussions. That makes them clearer and easier to see. SilkTork 09:34, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
      • Regarding previous edits made by Factocop. I'm not sure what difference it makes if Factocop is making a constructive edit after raising a discussion on that edit if the edit is based on material he had previously placed in the article and was then removed, even if it was by a alternative account or an IP account. The point of the conditions is not to prevent Factocop from editing, or tying him up so that if anyone removes material he adds that he can never again use that material in that article. The aim is to stop edit warring, and to encourage discussion to take place. It can never be edit warring if someone pauses to seek consensus for an edit, and enters into discussion. The essence of an edit war is someone reverting without thinking or without listening to alternative viewpoints or without putting forward reasonable rationale for an edit. The aim of the conditions is to encourage the pause, the reflection, the discussion and the listening.
      • Regarding other behaviour by Factocop that is causing concern. Factocop's conditions are on Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Ban Appeals Subcommittee. Other than that he is to be regarded as any other editor who is subject to the policies and guidelines of Misplaced Pages, and also to assumptions of good faith. If there is reasonable concern about disruptive editing then those concerns can be raised through the usual channels - while there isn't a fast path to sanctions, nor is there any special protection.
      • When unblocking someone with previous poor conduct there is a risk that the user will return to poor behaviour; however, there is also the chance that the account will be productive. While the user is mainly responsible for ensuring they regain the community's trust, they can be assisted by the community assuming good faith and granting them a little space. Having said that, it would be worth offering a little word of advice to Factocop to concentrate on editing rather than editors, to move on to other matters if there is no progress in getting consensus, and to work on building up trust rather than returning to articles where there has been some history of conflict. SilkTork 20:17, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comment by The C of E

    • I don't think that there was anything wrong with that. Stating what he intended to do on the talk page and waiting for any objections for 5 days before carrying it out seems perfectly reasonable to me and doesn't seem like a use of a revert to me. I think the unreasonable thing came from the fact that the edit was just reverted without engaging in a discussion on the talk page that was opened in anticipation for any objections that failed to arise. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 14:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

    Irrelevant comments by banned editor removed.

    Is this true? If so, that's got to be a boomerang-and-a-half. — Jon C. 22:28, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

    Result concerning Factocop

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    • Ok wrt to SilkTork's point that this is not a revert per se - this is a real can of worms. If the IP (that Baseball bugs points out) is Factocop (and Elen indicates that it "definitely" is) then Factocop's edit is an effective revert to text that his block evading sockpuppet added. I'd like some clarity from Elen and SilkTork on this. That said I don't see Factocop's action as explicitly breaching the letter of his ban and thus a sanction would be far too harsh, given as Elen and SilkTork outline that Factocop went about this edit the right way only to be hot button reverted himself.
      The most I'd suggest is issuing two warnings:
      1) Factocop is cautioned to avoid restoring edits made by his sockpuppets (disclosed/discovered or not).
      2) Other parties are reminded that reverting without cause is itself disruptive and attempting to use other editor's sanctions against them in battle ground fashion may WP:Boomerang--Cailil 15:18, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

    this section is only for the use of uninvolved sysops. Please do not post here--Cailil 17:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

    • I'm pretty much on board with Cailil here; I don't think we can sanction over this, but if it keeps happening we can revisit it. Factocop, you really do need to make sure you're avoiding even the appearance of impropriety here, as any hints of the battleground mentality that got you blocked in the first place will lead to swift sanctions. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Factocop, User:Borundi 499 is a) indefinitely blocked, and b) a block evading sock puppet; all this can be seen at that account's block log. It is very unwise to take the attitude you're taking here and engage in the kind of conduct you have since your unblock. That is what is being noted.
      Furthermore what is alarming is that you seem either not to realize or not to care that the user, Mo Anim (who, although not named, was cautioned above not to game your sanctions) is subject to cyber-stalking by this banned user. You engaging with them to attempt to discover Mo Anim's previous (disclosed) accounts is thoroughly unacceptable, and demonstrates to me that you haven't let your battleground issues go (as do your other comments about Domer48). I suggest you step back and reconsider your conduct on site--Cailil 17:04, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
    • I agree with Cailil that the diffs provided are entirely unacceptable. While SilkTork makes a good point that we should allow more room for recently unbanned users, I don't think it makes sense to give them more room than what we would give to a new user. This conduct would have more than justified a topic ban even if it were a new user, and so I think a three-month Troubles topic ban is needed. T. Canens (talk) 00:39, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
      Given that days after my above post Factocop continued to hound others and use his talk-space for WP:POLEMIC (see SilkTork's comment here) - I have to agree a ban from this area is the only way this user will adjust their behaviour--Cailil 16:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    • I agree with the above proposal for a three-month WP:TROUBLES topic ban. If you check what got Factocop into difficulty in November 2010, and led to his indefinite block, it began with this edit at Carlingford Lough. The article on the Lough had recently been quiet, so his edit kicked off a long revert war. The material he was changing was 'United Kingdom' to 'Northern Ireland', just like the diff reported in this AE complaint. I recommend that whoever closes this AE should amplify the topic ban to prevent changing 'United Kingdom' to 'Northern Ireland' or vice versa in any articles. It should also prevent Factocop from making *any edits at all* on articles that have a Troubles 1RR restriction marked on their talk page. It is best to be very specific because his unblock discussion from fall 2010 suggests to me that Factocop did not fully understand the Troubles 1RR or how revert restrictions work. EdJohnston (talk) 17:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

    Again, this section is only for the use of uninvolved sysops. Factocop please post in the appropriate section not here--Cailil 18:46, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

    • For ease of reference it should be noted that on the basis of the above comments by 3 sysops today Factocop has appealed for "help" to User:Jon C. and requested that SilkTork step in to overrule this board and close this case. I've concerns at this point about this user's WP:Competence--Cailil 20:14, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    @Factocop: for clarity the proposed topic ban by Tim and myself is due to your conduct *after* the edit Mo Anim raised here. You were advised by SilkTork that: "If you are going to edit in sensitive areas, then you need to control yourself. If you can't control yourself, then don't edit in sensitive areas." and indeed in your conditional unblock it states: "It will be your responsibility (same as it is for all Misplaced Pages users) to ensure that your own actions and edits are constructive and helpful and follow Misplaced Pages ethos, guidelines and policies. Part of that is to avoid any drama.(emphasis mine)" You are not living up to these requirements - and this is your problem nobody else's. If you don't understand these conditions I suggest you re-read them and reacquaint yourself with the policies you quote to others (i.e WP:5).
    The point Ed is making is that your edit fits a pattern of behaviour going back beyond your unblock, this is a separate point to Tim's and mine regarding your actions--Cailil 20:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    Furthermore in light of the issues about WP:POLEMIC I note this. Factocop you plead ignorance above yet you've done it again. Seriously stop behaving in this manner. Also your comments were replied to. You may not like the answer but that's not anyone else's problem--Cailil 20:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    • You have been told several times to comment in your own section already, Factocop. Any more comment you post in this section (including the one you just posted) will be removed without being read. T. Canens (talk) 21:03, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

    Closing with 3 months topic ban, then. T. Canens (talk) 04:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

    Ximhua

    Blocked for three months. T. Canens (talk) 18:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Ximhua

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:04, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ximhua (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions
    Disruptive edits

    (these are just the ones from today)

    • frivolous "vandalism" accusation
    • ditto
    • refusal to retract vandalism accusation; general hostility and incivility
    • , revert-warring without talkpage engagement
    • announcement of intent to edit-war
    • tag-team scheming, battleground mentality
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    • Formal Arbmac warning, 30 July
    • Warning about canvassing, 15 August
    • Warning about frivolous vandalism accusations, today
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Ximhua has been on a persistent campaign of disruptive tendentious editing mainly regarding the Bulgaria page, but also elsewhere. Virtually all his contributions in article space have had to be reverted as tendentious, OR, or just plain false. His behaviour in the context of a request for medition was so bad that the mediation failed before it could start, largely because of him .

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Ximhua

    Statement by Ximhua

    Obviously Future is unable to accept even a simple edit made by me - to an article about a word - Troika, which is a standard word shared between Bulgaria and Russia. He reverted the mention in the article that the word is Bulgarian three times, without providing any evidence/arguments or source to back his reverts. That is far from civil. After his reverts I did post on the talk page of Troika. I hope the committee will review his behavior as well.

    As for the requests for Mediation, it failed, because the other side declined to participate. I've also submitted another request, but again the other side failed to participate. As I'm certain the committee will review the actual request for mediation, it will quickly become evident what happened.

    As for Bulgaria's page, I was the one who was looking for a compromise and who initiated a DRN and Mediation request (links below), thus I've always have been looking for a compromise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_40 - look for Bulgaria

    http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Bulgaria

    Indef? In light of my numerous attempts to use the official channels to resolve the dispute on Bulgaria and the other side's attitude and actions, would this be justified? Wouldn't you need to ban all of the participants in this dispute then? Ximhua (talk) 05:35, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

    Just saw the comments by Tourbillion :) and how are my edits about Vlad the Impaler or other edits inappropriate or not true? As for the investigation, it was initiated by Tourbillion for Ceco31 not me and was rejected by the committee, for lack of evidence. Tourbillion's behavior on the other hand has often been far from civil, as he's declined participation in the request for mediation on the topic and has made statements outright false statements like the bellow, where he states that the First and Second Bulgarian Empire were not sovereign states.

    "They only include prior states if there is some political continuity between them. That is the case of Germany, France and Russia. That is not the case of Poland or Hungary (not really good articles), nor of Bulgaria. You used a very good description there - the Medieval Bulgarian empires were "political entities". But post-1878 is a sovereign state. The two empires were not sovereign countries. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 15:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)" Ximhua (talk) 00:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

    @Eluchil404, can you please explain which standards have I broken to justify such a harsh punishment (1 month)? On the Bulgaria's discussion I've initiated DRN, Request for mediation, Request for Comment, etc. On the troika edits, did I use harsh language or did I revert someone's edits. Quite the opposite, my edit was reverted 3 times with no explanation? I engaged on the talk pages on both topics. Please, provide justification for your suggestion, as otherwise it would make sense to ban everybody that is involved in Bulgaria's discussion for example. Obviously, I want to follow the rules and if you look thru my contribs you will see that I've engaged with moderators during the DRNs and Request for Mediation to ensure I'm doing the right thing. Thus, please help me understand better what am I doing wrong, so obviously I don't do it in the future as well as provide justification for the proposed 1 month ban. Best, Ximhua (talk) 15:01, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

    @Eluchil404. OK, I got it. I can assure you that I will make sure I engage on the talk page after first reverts. No warnings either. Do I still deserve a month's ban?Ximhua (talk) 00:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Ximhua

    Some additional points on tag-team behavior: ; examples of edits of the same nature on articles outside the Bulgaria topic field: Genetic history of Europe and Vlad the Impaler. Even though the second example has a source added, the user has shown that he is prone to misinterpreting sources to prove a point:. Was also subject of a sockpuppetry investigation. No sockpuppetry was confirmed, but meatpuppetry was suggested by the checkuser. - ☣Tourbillon 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

    Future Perf.'s request is unfounded. Evidently, he wants to ban everyone who does not agree with him, which in itself is a battleground and far from civil behavior. Maybe we should soon consider the behavior of Fut. Perf. as well. As for Ximhua, I could say that his statements and edits speak for themselves. He uses references unlike other editors who just use "logical thinking" and make claims without providing sources which back up their claims. This request is waste of time. I recommend rejection of the request since no evidence for uncivil behavior has been presented.Espor (talk) 13:48, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

    Can we get a closure here? The consensus for sanctions has been essentially stable and without opposition for more than a week now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:56, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    Result concerning Ximhua

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    • Indef? T. Canens (talk) 01:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
      • Yeah, maybe. At the very least, some action is going to need to be taken, as there's a long pattern of battleground behaviour. And topic ban vs. block seems to be a trivial distinction since Ximhua's editing is almost exclusively about Bulgaria. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:30, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Given the clean block log, I'm not sure that an indef is warranted at this point. I'd start with 1-3 months to give him a chance to understand that we are serious about enforcing our standards. Eluchil404 (talk) 21:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Eluchil's suggestion is good by me. I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be back here when the block ends, but just maybe I'll be proven wrong. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm not actually an optimist by nature; I just believe in giving users some rope. But every once in a while someone will surprise you. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
        • I think the one to three month topic ban is a good idea, leaning toward a three month topic ban. It may be, maybe, that the editor in question might find something else to edit in that time, where maybe the behavior problems won't arise. And, yeah, also, if after the ban the behavior recurs, it would make for a stronger case that an indef ban would be called for, and also make such less likely to be seriously questioned or pointed to as unwarranted. John Carter (talk) 19:41, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
          • I can't think of a good way to craft a topic ban that fits the conduct without being overly lengthy or wikilawyerable, which is why I was - and am still - leaning towards a block. T. Canens (talk) 19:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
            • That makes sense, actually, considering that the apparent problem area is kind of ill defined. I suppose it might be possible to try to apply mandatory edit review in this case, which would only allow him to edit articles after a review of the proposed changes by others, but a block might prevent talk page abuse. John Carter (talk) 20:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
            • I tend to agree that a block is preferable to a topic ban as a sanction in this instance. The question in my mind is an appropriate length. I am not seeing the kind of pure trolling that would lead me to favor an immediate indef, but am willing to defer if an indefinite block with leave to appeal is considered a preferable sanction to a simple 3 month block. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:02, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

    @Ximhua. I'll take the Troika edits as an example. You reverted twice, before going to the talk page. WP:BRD, which while not a policy documents a widely endorsed practice recommends that after you have been reverted you go directly to the talk page without reverting back even once. Secondly, Future Perfect did give explanations "Bulgarian is irrelevant here" and "it's irrelevant in how many other languages the word exists. English got it directly from Russian; that's the only reason for mentioning it." which make clear why he believes that only Russian need be mentioned. Your response "This word has been around for 10 centuries, how do you know where English got it from? Why are you denying facts?" is needlessly personal and accusatory. No one is denying facts (i.e. that the word exists in Bulgarian) but merely asserting that the Russian use is the only relevant one for English etymology as can be confirmed by any English dictionary. Your related edits to Future Perfect's talk page are also very troubling. Content disputes are not vandalism. It is not appropriate to issue "WARNING"s, or make demands of other editors in the way that you did. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

    Going with a three month block for now. The next block, should it become necessary, will likely be indefinite. T. Canens (talk) 18:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    TrevelyanL85A2

    Blocked indefinitely. T. Canens (talk) 00:40, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning TrevelyanL85A2

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Mathsci (talk) 21:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    TrevelyanL85A2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBR&I

    Extended topic ban

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    Not applicable. Arbitrators have repeatedly reminded him of his topic ban, even if he has repeatedly ignored their advice. He has banned me (and others) from his user talk page, but I have nevertheless notified him.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    TrevelyanL85A2 is topic-banned from commenting on me. He has not added any useful content to wikipedia for a long time. His sole purpose this year, judging from his edits, seems to be to act to create trouble for me in any way he can manage. He is prohibited from commenting on me and arbitrators have spelled that out to him (e.g. Newyorkbrad). The latest posting refers to two threads on WP:BLPN one of which I started today and another where I participated. From his comments in the diff above, TrevelyanL85A2 has made it clear tbat he wishes to make mischief concerning me through The Devil's Advocate. He has done so previously, communicating in private with The Devil's Advocate (as he is suggesting now). That has led to the current highly disruptive and time-wasting amendment request. In the current circumstances, with no edits to mitigate his conduct and where he is still giving the appearance of acting as a henchperson for two site-banned editors, a lengthy or possibly indefinite editing restriction seems to be the way forward. His excuses for not contributing have been lame. At the moment his editing has regressed to that of a disruption-only account, in this case acting on behalf of two site-banned buddies. The diff above is a graphic illustration of that: administrators should read the two linked threads there, one started today by me,and see who commneted there. They have nothing at all to do with TrevelyanL85A2. He is trying to evade his topic ban yet again through The Devil's Advocate in an even more evasive way than before. In this case he is trying to create havoc away from arbcom pages, where he has previously enjoyed some kind of protection while motions have been formulated. The comments on me in the diff above fall outside arbitration processes and appear to be purely malicious. If his only aim is to game the system, he should do so elsewhere (provided that he's not been banned there) without fooling around on wikipedia. Mathsci (talk) 21:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning TrevelyanL85A2

    Statement by TrevelyanL85A2

    I was really hoping this wouldn't become a big deal, which is why I wanted to discuss it with TDA via e-mail instead of posting about it in public, but I guess I have no other option now.

    I brought this up with TDA is because it's my fault Mathsci is following him to places like WQA and the Misplaced Pages UK article. It was at my request that he posted the amendment thread about me, and now he's experiencing the consequences of that. I feel really guilty for not having warned him, because it is something I knew was a danger. It's how Mathsci tends to handle him himself in disputes, such as his dispute last year with Miradre, which resulted in (for example) following Miradre to the Groupthink, article where he made four reverts of Miradre and no other edits. But TDA was not familiar with this danger, and it's my fault he didn't know about it.

    I know it probably looks like I was jumping into something that wasn't my business, but please look at the whole situation, and what I can understand about my responsibility for what's happening to TDA now. He tried to help me, and as a direct result he's experiencing something I should have warned him about but didn't. Therefore, it's my responsibility to try to help him if he wants it, and if he doesn't want it then at least to apologise. I tried to do this in a way that was as inoffensive as possible, and without mentioning Mathsci directly. If that's still a problem, please at least understand what my goal was. It was not to cause conflict, but only to do what seemed like the only kind thing I could do for TDA in this situation.--TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) 23:11, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    @T. Canens: Now that I understand this is a problem, I've removed my post from TDA's user talk. I would like to avoid causing conflict here, but it's difficult to know how to reconcile the restriction I'm under with the course of action that seems like basic kindness to me. I'll remember this lesson in the future. --TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) 23:29, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
    I have not disrupted anything. I am trying to move on with trying to edit things, but I am constantly being hounded by people and harassed, as are people who want to help me improve. I want to go and edit back to what I usually edit, without being harassed by anyone. This AE request is just another form of harassment just because I was trying to help someone. I really want people to understand this is the major issue. --TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) 23:59, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning TrevelyanL85A2

    Result concerning TrevelyanL85A2

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Sigh. While I'm not sure it was a very smart move on Mathsci's own part to follow TDA to that article and take it to that noticeboard, that's really not at issue here. What I find clear is that Trevelyan had no business sticking his own nose in too, and his edit is clearly a comment on Mathsci, even if he didn't explicitly mention the name (he said "has been reported", in the passive, but of course it was plain obvious that the agent of that verb was Mathsci; also, the intention of writing an e-mail to TDA that "also relates to what happened" in the other event he mentioned could only refer to that editor, because his and TDA's presence was the only thing that linked the two events.) Given the fact that Trevelyan had lots, lots of warnings, and that he has not contributed anything to the encyclopedia for over half a year but spent an insane amount of time and energy skirting around the edges of his topic ban instead, I think a longish block is the logical consequence at this point. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:19, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    Longish to indefinite, yes. I would prefer the latter. The point of the topic ban was to get Trevelyan to go work on, say, the War of 1812, not stick around any peripheries of the earlier dispute. NW (Talk) 22:42, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
    Agree with Future Perfect & NW. There is really no point having someone involved in this site who wont abide by policy, heed warnings or take their opportunity to engage positively elsewhere on site. I see indefinite as the only option as what ever length of time we've given TrevelyanL85A2 to adjust his conduct he hasn't done it. So until he does so he should remain blocked--Cailil 22:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
    Also agree with an indef block, which I'll implement in 24 hours unless another uninvolved admin vehemently disagrees. In less than 300 edits, TrevelyanL85A2 has managed to generate a ridiculously disproportionate amount of disruption. Enough is enough. (Technically, it would need to be a one-year AE block with a concurrent "normal" indef block.) T. Canens (talk) 23:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

    24.177.121.137

    72 hours by Heimstern. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 08:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning 24.177.121.137

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    User talk:Nableezy 05:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    24.177.121.137 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 00:46, 24 September 2012 Removal of the source for the photograph
    2. 05:22, 24 September 2012 Same as above

    This is the same as a prior edit removing the same source by this IP: 18:58, 21 September 2012. The IP was blocked for edit-warring at this page on 22:04, 21 September 2012.

    The user has declined to self-revert.

    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Notified of the discretionary sanctions 18:19, 23 September 2012‎ by Bbb23 (talk · contribs)
    2. Blocked for edit-warring at this article 22:06, 21 September 2012
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified

    Discussion concerning 24.177.121.137

    Statement by 24.177.121.137

    Comments by others about the request concerning 24.177.121.137

    The article should be semi-protected. Disputes by IP hopping editors in this area are not acceptable, whether their change of IP is intentional or not. A similar IP 24.177.125.104 has participated in the Commons deletion discussion. 24.177.122.56 had previously removed the same image from the article with the edit summary "misc vandalism, see talk". See also ANEW discussion. Tijfo098 (talk) 06:20, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    I've invited 24.177.121.137 to type out his/her/its/xie's response and comments on his/her/its/xie's talk page, and I will transcribe them. I will not take part in the decision, while I get myself back into the swing of things.--Tznkai (talk) 06:27, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
    It looks like only likes to play the WP:GAME under his own rules . Tijfo098 (talk) 06:55, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    See also the IP's tone in the RSN discussion and . Tijfo098 (talk) 06:46, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Also note this totally weird edit. It starts to look like 24.177 is plainly trolling. Tijfo098 (talk) 07:05, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Just do both. Semi-protect and block for 1RR. We're dealing with one of those assholes, obviously. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 07:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Result concerning 24.177.121.137

    72 hours by Heimstern

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    DIREKTOR

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning DIREKTOR

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Joy (talk) 09:20, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    DIREKTOR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    DIREKTOR has always suffered from quite a WP:OWN syndrome, but recently it has escalated at Dalmatia, where he's edit warring to impose his pretty new map that has a factual error. This would be a simple content dispute if he had any actual intention to provide any sort of proof that what he's doing is according to the verifiability policy. I've had enough:

    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    The user has been well aware of WP:ARBMAC for years now.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I'd levy a penalty myself, but he'd invariably accuse me of being WP:INVOLVED and we'd get nowhere. I'm proposing that someone else gets involved (heh). --Joy (talk) 09:20, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Below you can all see DIREKTOR's modus operandi - flood the opponent with a crapload of wholly irrelevant (and wholly disruptive) text and see if they budge. Let's play the point-by-point rebuttal game once again...
    I most definitely did not call DIREKTOR names or make any personal attack - I told him he was being disruptive, which he was - he did not follow the most basic rules of WP:V/WP:OR while editing a clearly controversial topic subject to WP:ARBMAC, and was wasting other editors' time with endless anecdotal discussion while at it.
    He did not post a link that proves his position is not WP:OR. (If he did, I certainly did not see it, nor did anyone point me to it post res.) It's certainly not in the article now, AFAIK.
    I did not "withdraw" from the entire discussion, I told him I will not entertain him by engaging in a particular line of squabbling that is largely irrelevant for the actual dispute.
    Philosopher12 did not post a link proving DIREKTOR's position, either.
    In fact, the link Philosopher12 posted nicely proved my point that the relevant administrative addition was of a territory in Lika, not Dalmatia. This addition is borderline irrelevant to the notion of defining Dalmatia as a whole; the source literally limits it to a "present-day administrative and territorial point of view". Using that single sentence from a single source to support the claim that these territories, universally known to be Lika, including in that same source, are now parts of Dalmatia to be displayed in the infobox at the top of the article, is a classic WP:SYNTH violation. Even if we take this single source at face value, it's a classic WP:UNDUE violation.
    JFTR, it's exceedingly hard to take at face value a source that discusses English Misplaced Pages articles regarding the same matter, while failing to take any notice of whether the claims in the articles are sourced or not, and failing to link to a specific article revision that they were describing. To back-reference such an article from Misplaced Pages would be egregiously sloppy to the point of being hilarious.
    But, here's where we're veering into the content dispute territory. DIREKTOR had nothing to do with Philosopher12's finding of this source, his wasting of everyone's time has been completely orthogonal to that.
    I'm perfectly willing to have a reasonable content dispute with any editor (just as I have been for the last, oh, nine years?), but I'm not willing to have an unreasonable series of fruitless, policy-free exchanges with DIREKTOR that lead nowhere in and of themselves.
    This is what's wrong with DIREKTOR's editing - he apparently has the knowledge of the editing policies and guidelines, but somehow does not see how these concepts relate to his own editing. He's simply always in the right, and there's nothing you can say to dissuade him.
    I'm sorry, but there's only so much disruption of this kind that I can take. I've been perfectly tolerant of it for many, many years because not all of his editing is like this, but with no apparent improvement in behavior after all this time, I think it's high time for an intervention.
    --Joy (talk) 11:31, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    I should mention another recent example of how DIREKTOR has annoyed another editor who tries to base his edits in sources rather than anecdotal evidence - Talk:Central Croatia and User:Tomobe03. The latter user complained to me at length at User talk:Joy#Central Croatia, and I haven't had time to try to resolve that particular issue yet, but the pattern is pretty clear. --Joy (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    There's nothing "preemptive" about my report. I stand by my assessment that relevant productive discussion was already had well before I started reverting his disruptive edits. --Joy (talk) 11:40, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning DIREKTOR

    Statement by DIREKTOR

    Honestly, I have no idea what I've done wrong there. The discussion on Talk:Dalmatia had been light, friendly, and reasonably courteous. The three reverts posted above occurred over a period of eleven days. My impressions of the events on that talkpage (this thread) were as follows:

    • Silvio1973 and I were having a relaxed discussion on historical boundaries, and found that there was a discrepancy in sources. The map in the infobox was at issue. Attempting to resolve the problem, I worked on illustrator for about an hour and created a new, .SVG map where the disputed areas are included in a "variously described as Dalmatia" category.
    • Joy arrived and, eventually, began demanding that one of the "variously described as Dalmatia" areas be removed entirely. He appeared to have lost patience and began calling me names and posting personal attacks , referring to my posts as "ramblings" and "rants" and posting his various opinions on my character and value as an editor - completely without provocation. Then he sort of declared that he's "going away".
    • His position was that including that area under "maybe Dalmatia" was WP:SYNTH. I disagreed, and posted a link to the effect that the entire area of Zadar County (of which the disputed area is part) is generally considered Dalmatia. Another user also arrived, User:Philosopher12, who posted sources to that effect as well.
    • Now, although he supposedly withdrew, Joy did not consider it beneath him to edit the article to his preference. He simply removed the map he didn't like, in spite of quoted sources and google tests - but still refused to discuss on the talkpage. He also seemed to be contradicting his own previous statement, where he stated that the County in question is indeed "generally considered a part of Dalmatia". At all times I was unsure as to whether we do, or do not, have consensus that that county is Dalmatia.

    Thoroughly confused, I asked him to please explain his position and requested that he please discuss . He did not do so, but simply placed his .PNG map into the article (a map which has glaring errors, as has been demonstrated with sources on the talkpage, and is equally disputed if not more - as evidenced by its recent removal ). When he did not respond on the talkpage, after a day or so I posted a revert. So he reported me.

    So in short, Joy posted personal attacks without provocation (or retaliation), "gave up" on the discussion, and then reverted without deigning to even explain his position, address the sources or discuss in any way. When I restored the .SVG map, he reported me here for posting three reverts in half a month. Again, the discussion was otherwise perfectly amicable, sources were presented, and I was doing my best to solve the dispute by accommodating all the sources and differing views in the map. Now its time for me to receive my block and/or topic ban? I don't think its exaggeration to say that, if anything, Joy should be warned against this sort of behavior. -- Director (talk) 10:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    P.S. Indeed this seems to me like a typical "preemptive report". I had warned Joy that should he continue to revert without discussion, I would not edit-war with him, but would bring his behavior up at the appropriate noticeboard. Now I'm sitting at the defendant's bench. -- Director (talk) 11:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


    @Re Joy's post. Please excuse me if its too much of a (quote) "crapload", but its far easier to spin tall tales than to unravel them. I really don't have much choice than to attempt just that.
    The way I see this thing developing, having had his report described as frivolous, Joy is now "diversifying" and looking months into the past for anything he might declare some kind of "pattern". My question is: what is this about? What in the world am I being accused of??
    My impression is that my real crime here is annoying Joy too much. And since we're exchanging adjectives here, let me say it: in my experience adminship appears to have gone to his head. He apparently believes he can insult others with impunity, call their two-sentence posts "rants" etc. He very obviously considers himself "above" prolonged discussions with the "likes of me". He will simply push his edits through in the article without even proper elaboration - and if someone dares oppose and revert him, even in the most polite and sensible manner - the fellow will be treated to this sort of nonsensical report, where various cockamamie "patterns" will be skillfully spun by Joy digging through everything that this person ever wrote. Were I to dig through all our previous discussions I would be certain to uncover more insults, obscenities, and personal attacks by this person against me and others (as I remember quite clearly). One can also see above that it adds to this person's annoyance that he simply could not block me himself and just have his way immediately.


    @Tomboe. The entire post by Tomboe, believe it or not - is contrived nonsense. Lies, to be blunt. The man introduced a four-article regionalization of Croatia that is completely unsourced (yes - he does not have one real source for it), and is based entirely on his own thoughts and feelings. He makes it out as if I'm going against sources, where I had asked him a dozen times to point out these hypothetical sources of his - with no success at all. I did NOT "advocate a wholesale rollback", in fact I advocated article expansion and merge. Just completely wrong.
    And WP:OWN?? I could not disagree more with that random, completely arbitrary accusation. I did not write the Dalmatia article, why in the world would I think I "own" it? In fact, the reason Tomboe is quoting "WP:OWN" here, is because I cited that policy to him months ago at Talk:Central Croatia and Talk:Slavonia, articles he wrote and was practically the only person who's text was on top. He would not even consent to the modification of an obviously-erroneous flag and coa that he liked - until someone explained to him on WP:DRN that he has no good source and that I do. I shan't go further into that old content dispute, its available for review at the talkpage and at WP:DRN (where Tomboe had also posted a bunch of plain obvious fabrications, there's a pattern for you).
    Practically the entire post by Tomboe is preposterous and untrue. I don't know how else to say it, or what more to add to that. But regardless - the whole Central Croatia issue from a month ago was conducted in a relatively courteous, unremarkable manner, and is completely unrelated to the current issue. Was it a content dispute? Yes. Was it completely resolved? No. But why are we talking about it here? Its being brought-up for no reason other than as a "replacement" for the Dalmatia matter, which turned out an apparent dud for Joy. Oh yes, an "obvious pattern emerges.."


    Let me just say this in closing. When someone is reported on WP:AE, odds are he will be sanctioned. Various contrived "patterns" can be claimed and people you disagree with are far more likely to comment that people you're in accord with. All that said, in my personal view, it would be absurd beyond belief if these cases of perfectly ordinary, benign, run-in-the mill discussion are somehow twisted to seem a part of some sinister "behavioral pattern" or "tendencies" on my part. I still have no idea what I'm doing here, or how anyone could possibly compose a "report" simply because I disagree with him/her (with sources and sound reasoning). -- Director (talk) 16:45, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comment by uninvolved Jtrainor

    This report is clearly frivolous. WP:BOOMERANG time. Jtrainor (talk) 11:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning DIREKTOR

    As Central Croatia issue has been already referred to earlier by Joy above, I would like to point out that the discussion regarding that issue is documented at Talk:Central Croatia where WP:OWN attitude by Direktor is in clear display as the user advocates a "wholesale rollback" of the article from GA-review nominated one (fully referenced, copyedited and wikified) to a completely unreferenced stub on their sayso. The "wholesale rollback" proposed meant going from this to this. Currently the article is rife with original research including denial that the region is a geographic region (which it is, as evidenced by proper reliable sources included in the article). The behavioral pattern in case of Direktor is also present in other articles as well: For instance in case of Slavonia where original research was added by Direktor to a GA despite discussion, maintenance tags to flag those (including removal of the tags with no addressing of those) as in case of change of colour of the coat of arms contrary to provided reliable sources, based on personal preference (as stated in the article talk) and addition of flag of the Kingdom of Slavonia to this article on a geographic region, likewise with no corroboration conforming to WP:V when prompted to provide one.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    I'm sorry, but I have to respond to being falsely accused of expressing "blunt lies". My above statements are fully documented in article talk pages and article history of Central Croatia and Slavonia pages, but this ad hominem provides yet another display of Direktor's method of "collaboration". Their accusation of having "not one" source is laughable at best and is a further glaring example of Direktor's inclination to dismiss out of hand anything that is not to their liking, no matter how unsupported their view may be or how supported the opposing position is - one of the articles claimed to be based on "not one" source passed a GA review a little while before the said exchange took place and the other one was already GA nominated before their intervention, brought to GA standard as much as I could tell - and after 27 GAs, I think I can tell so. Since GA reviews focus, inter alia, on sourcing of the entire article and its full and unbiased coverage, I am sure a keen reviewer such as the User:TonyTheTiger would bring any outstanding issues out, but then again Direktor's focus appears to be outside WP:V.--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
    As for Slavonia flag/arms sourcing, once again Direktor fails to distinguish geography and history dismissing sources they don't like. The DRN editor agreed that the source depicts 19th century arms/flag - i.e. symbols of Kingdom of Slavonia. The article passed GA showing arms as used in a contemporary arms differing from the 19th century source by shade of blue only - but Direktor seemed to dislike the shade of blue for Slavonia's or Dalmatia's arms saying that "noone would dream of using baby blue for the Dalmatian coat of arms" - which once again illustrates how far is Direktor prepared to go in tailoring article content to their liking or their perception of popular dislike for shade of blue actually used (see: Talk:Slavonia#Flag_of_Slavonia_as_a_region).--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

    Result concerning DIREKTOR

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.