Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:36, 10 November 2012

Bureaucrats' noticeboard archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50

This page has archives. Sections older than 5 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

• WP:BN
• WP:BNB

The Bureaucrats' noticeboard is a place where items related to the Bureaucrats can be discussed and coordinated. Any user is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here. Please start a new section for each topic.

This is not a forum for grievances. It is a specific noticeboard addressing Bureaucrat-related issues. If you want to know more about an action by a particular bureaucrat, you should first raise the matter with them on their talk page. Please stay on topic, remain civil, and remember to assume good faith. Take extraneous comments or threads to relevant talk pages.

If you are here to report that an RFA or an RFB is "overdue" or "expired", please wait at least 12 hours from the scheduled end time before making a post here about it. There are a fair number of active bureaucrats; and an eye is being kept on the time remaining on these discussions. Thank you for your patience.

To request that your administrator status be removed, initiate a new section below.

It is 19:12:37 on December 25, 2024, according to the server's time and date.

Resysopping

I wish to request reactivation of my administrative tools - they were removed uncontroversially due to inactivity, as I departed the editing community for a period. Thank you. FCYTravis (talk) 17:27, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

No edits since the time of desysopping, looks fine to me. I or someone else will get to this later today. MBisanz 17:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment)I'm not sure what's going on, but please see Polarscribe's contributions, Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/FCYTravis and the FCYTravis → Polarscribe section at Misplaced Pages:Changing username/Usurpations. Shearonink (talk) 18:57, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) As well as this. Shearonink (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, first question to FCYTravis, have you edited under the account called User:Polarscribe? If so, why? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh Lord. How ridiculous. Note that the "sockpuppet" allegation has been closed by a Clerk as unfounded. I created this new account with my current Internet identity, and then decided that it makes sense to reclaim my previous editing history by merging with the previous account. polarscribe (talk) 19:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Erm, the USURP request (and this BN request) were filed BEFORE the SPI. From what I can see, Travis left in good standing in 2008, was desysopped for inactivity in 2011, thought about coming back as Polarscribe on November 5, 2012 changed his mind on November 6, 2012 and requested to usurp the new account name with his older edit contribution history. Am I missing something? MBisanz 19:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't see an issue. I just wanted to understand why the new account was registered. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Precisely, Matthew. There was an inadvertent conflict of accounts on one article because I forgot to log out while switching back and forth to verify the merger request - which was filed more than 30 minutes before the allegations of sockpuppetry. If I am attempting to be a sockpuppet, I've been a very poor one indeed. polarscribe (talk) 19:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• FCYTravis, would you be kind enough to explain why you edited as an IP, then registered a new account, then wanted to reactivate your sysop bit on your previous account when you got into a dispute? I'm not going to say this is an abusive use of socks, but it does look fishy to uninvolved outsiders. — Coren  19:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I made a public request to merge accounts at 17:25 UTC at Misplaced Pages:Changing username/Usurpations. The two accounts in question are both mine, I have never pretended otherwise and I will never claim otherwise. My current Internet identity is under this username, and I thought about starting fresh - but I decided that I would rather reconnect with my extant editing history and administrative tools. polarscribe (talk) 19:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
    • (e/c) I don't. In fact, I've told so explicitly. What I did say is that it looks odd that you'd choose to create a new account, enter into a dispute, then reactivate your older one. Try to look at this from an outside view, and you'll see why I'm asking. Struck because you changed your answer, and that was responding to the previous one. — Coren  19:18, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks. That's all I was wondering. — Coren  19:19, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Strong oppose Check out the history of Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary and its talk page. He used a]His IP address b] Polarscribe c] FYUTravis accounts to argue the same point and then in a recent edit summary claimed to be a different editor. He protests his innocence (and the edits he made as FYUTravis are now covered up with Polarscribe), which of course is possible, but if you actually examine his approach to the editorial dispute, the editor warring, the lordly tone in discussions, his intolerance to neutral perspectives and the views of others this is clearly not somebody worthy of adminship? You give him the tools and he'll a] Fully protect the Alcatraz article. b] Will make up an excuse to block me. Why do you think an editor who has long departed would suddenly want the tools again? You resysop him and he edits the Alcatraz article as an admin, I swear I will leave this website. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:21, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• Dr Blofeld, thanks for your analysis. I'm sure we'll take a longer, harder look now, but your threats to "leave this website" don't really help the situation. We need an objective approach here. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• (ec)Crats will return an admin under the admin policy if "there are no issues with the editor's identity and they stopped editing Misplaced Pages while still in good standing or in uncontroversial circumstances." We are not empowered to re-judge the requesting user's suitability to regain the tools and must base our decision on the validity of their identity and the circumstances under which the tools were removed. Predictions of future abuse are insufficient grounds to deny the request. MBisanz 19:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

There seem to be two accounts with the polarscribe/Polarscribe name now: Polarscribe (usurped) and Polarscribe/polarscribe. Shearonink (talk) 19:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You give him tools again and he uses his admin tools to get his own way on the Alcatraz article or block me, I will leave this project in disgust. If you must restore his admin tools I ask you to at least show some respect here and take into account the seemingly obvious reasons why he suddenly wants his tools restored. He doesn't edit for years and when he returns to push his point suddenly he wants his tools back again. Please look into this, it would be grossly unfair if you gave him the right to overule me on this.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:37, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Doc, admins get no such right and he is clearly involved in that dispute and would not be allowed to act administratively there. — Coren  19:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's well-understood by all admins that such activity would result in swift and sure response from the ArbCom and other administrators. There would be no point to it even if I had any intentions of doing such a thing, which I do not. A mop and bucket does not give me the ability to own any article. polarscribe (talk) 20:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Shearonink, Right, we can't merge accounts, so I did a usurp of Polarscribe. Dr. Blofeld, if he abuses the tools by acting while involved to block you or win a content dispute, I'm sure the Arbcom will react harshly and desysop him. I'm not giving him the right to overrule you. MBisanz 19:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Even so, the context in which he is re-requesting resyopping in such circumstances disgusts me and I'm out of here in pure disgust that he is even being considered after what has happened in the time being. Ask yourselves why he suddenly needs admin tools, years gone from wikipedia. You make your choice but if I ever have to deal with this guy breathing down my neck and using his admin tools to take action over me on here..♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:48, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You're asking me to violate policy. The RFC on desysopping, which I believe I opposed on other grounds, does not let me consider the factors you mention. I would be in violation of community policy to deny the request. MBisanz 19:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Could you tell me, since when has the outcome of an RfC been a binding policy? Does it take precedence over the requirements to gain adminship, namely "appropriate approach and conduct as a community member"? Given the conduct and approach of the individual in question over the last couple of days, adminship would not have been given in the first place, but because he hasn't edited for four year, all of a sudden he's got them back? Adminship isn't a god-given right, and there needs to be a measure of intelligent oversight in returning tools to absentees, especially when their recent contributions and approach to the collaborative process have been somewhat questionable. - SchroCat (^ • @) 09:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not asking you to violate policy. I'm asking you to try to address why you think he suddenly needs admin tools having not edited wikipedia in 4 years having only edited a single article he was involved in a dispute in other than "desperately need admins". Policy or not, do you genuinely believe he wants his tools restored in good faith, despite not yet having edited wikipedia? But should you restore his admin tools even though I personally believe it to be in totally the wrong circumstances I do request that he is banned from articles I'm working on and speaking to me as I believe he would abuse his power further down the line, unless he is willing to actually discuss problems without reverting and editing first. You voted him to be an admin and he hasn't edited wikipedia in 4 years, to suddenly be able to return is sort of like quitting an old job and storming into the office four years down the line and expecting to have it back straight away.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:20, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You've yet to answer the question of why I would abuse admin tools on an article in editorial dispute, given that the certain result from such activity would be a loss of those admin tools. polarscribe (talk) 20:31, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I have absolutely no intention of abusing administrative tools on the disputed article in question, or any other. I would never block a user involved with myself in a legitimate editorial dispute such as this one. I would note for the record that Dr. Blofeld has repeatedly made personal attacks against me (including intimations about my location and this one where he calls me a "banned administrator" and an "arrogant professor." I have made a number of rhetorical assaults on the content in dispute, but I have never questioned Dr. Blofeld's integrity as an editor or made any ad hominem comments directed toward him, and I would request that he abide by our notions of civility and good faith. polarscribe (talk) 19:51, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Your tone in edit summaries and in the article talk page comes across as most arrogant, add to the fact you used your IP address, then Polarscribe, then Travis accounts to look as if there were multiple editors supporting you.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Asked and answered, counselor - I did no such thing, as discussed in your quickly-closed allegations. polarscribe (talk) 19:57, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Blofeld, your "disgust" is noted, but not really relevant to this request unless you can demonstrate exactly why the resysop shouldn't take place per the RFC noted by MBisanz above. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

This guy has not edited wikipedia in years, walked out on us. He returns because he wanted to assert an opinion of an article and reverted many times and left comments on the talk page, failing to grasp why his opinion was affecting the neutrality of coverage in the article. He has not made a single edit to an article or to wikipedia in years to suggest he even needs admin tools, so why do you think it is he suddenly has this demand to have tools again, not being active on here? Its to elevate himself to a higher position again and to try to gain support. In my opinion people who return after a long absence in heated circumstances, that should be taken into consideration. People who do so should at least be given a month's trial to show they have actually returned and actually need the tools and demonstrate that they are an active editor again. What's to say he won't swiftly leave after a short period of time again? He needs to go on trial for a good month, then make a decision if he really wants and needs the tools again. if he was up for RFA now he'd get blown out by the vast majority.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

It's probably not a good idea to misuse rollback in a content dispute and then object to someone else having user rights on the off chance that they might misuse tools in a content dispute, despite no evidence of them ever having done so. - SudoGhost 20:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Not that, but why you think it would be relevant to point out my use of rollback on what is request for somebody to have their admin tools restored, especially on a candidate who doesn't believe in ghosts.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Relevance? to this discussion?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that you and I once interacted excuses your abuse of tools against the very editor your complaining might abuse their tools. That's quite a point you've made, but doesn't excuse your behavior. - SudoGhost 20:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Not that, but why you think it would be relevant to point out my use of rollback on what is request for somebody to have their admin tools restored, especially on a candidate who doesn't believe in ghosts.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there, but when you abuse tools given to you, it makes it rather disingenuous to claim that someone else shouldn't be given tools in the off chance that they might abuse theirs. If you're going to claim that they shouldn't have tools because they might abuse them, and misusing tools is wrong, don't sit there and abuse your tools against that very same editor. Its relevant because you're doing the very thing you're worried the other editor might do, and that erodes your complaint completely. - SudoGhost 20:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Having one or more extra maintenance tools should not in any way shape or form have any bearing on discussions. Just because someone carries a mop does not make them an expert on Mesopotamian civilization, or whatever. People must not be artificially intimidated in discussions. We reach consensus based on well-formed and cogent arguments, debate, pointing out fallacious arguments, and other forensics--not by force of will or fallacious argumentum ad verecundiam. Of course, there are times when argument from authority is not a fallacy, (where the authority is a legitimate expert on the subject and consensus exists among said legitimate experts) but just because someone is admin on Misplaced Pages does not make them ipso facto an authority on any topic. -- Avi (talk) 20:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• This user claimed that they were a different editor on another account (doesn't meet WP:SOCK). Talking in full capitals in an edit summary. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 20:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• That edit was made AFTER he disclosed his ownership of both accounts on WP:USURP. The threshold for denying is conduct such that it is a certainty the person resigned the bit to avoid arbcom removing it; capitals in an edit summary does not meet that threshold. MBisanz 20:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• That edit also fairly clearly means tags left by another editor who isn't Dr. Blofeld. In other words you aren't supposed to remove tags that another editor placed stating the article is disputed. He wasn't claiming to be another editor there at all. -DJSasso (talk) 20:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I see absolutely no valid reason to refrain from resysopping Polarscribe. There has been no evidence of any "cloud" or abuse of administrative tools prior to them being removed. Any future abuses (if they even happen) would have to be handled according to policy at that time, but as already mentioned here, we can't refrain from returning the admin bits because one person thinks the editor in question might abuse the tools at some future point in time. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Why should an editor who rejected us 4 years ago when trusted to be an administrator suddenly have his tools restored after returning the following decade in the context of an IP editorial dispute. Do you think he would be here if that hadn't happened? He could be a saint , but returning in this context when he has not even edited an article to suggest he even needs an account let alone admin tools in 4 years does not answer why he needs to have his tools restored. The concept of desysopping in the first place is pointless if anybody can just walk back in here and demand them be restored as even if he's inactive he wouldn't be using the tools so it is pointless so say "you've been desysopped". People who are away from wikipedia for years without a legitimate reason, if the decision is made to take their admin tools away, then they should have to earn them again when they return. I am very sorry Bisanz that you voted on this and whoever it was decided to make it fine for somebody to do this and in such a context.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:58, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I believe I voted against it because I agreed it was pointless (or maybe I opposed it for another reason), but the community decided this would be the policy even if it led to irrational results and crats can only act within policy. MBisanz 21:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The user also edited on polarscribe before verifying that this was another account, and used the edit summary "registered account" after changing the signature of an IP, when they already had an account. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I changed the signature of the IP because the IP was me, and I wanted to make it clear that the IP was not a separate editor! I was laying claim to that statement. polarscribe (talk) 21:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Erm, he didn't have to disclose he was Polarscribe unless he did something that could confuse people as to his prior identity. Also, he's stating that he registered an account, not that it was the first account he ever registered. MBisanz 21:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I've reviewed NYCTravis/Polarscribe's contributions, and am convinced that the current user is the same user who left in a huff in 2008. In other words, I don't believe the account has been compromised by a new person. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Why though does he now return and want tools, none of you are answering this question.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 21:14, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The community decided that question was irrelevant when it created the inactivity desysopping policy. MBisanz 21:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(e/c) It's not our question to answer. If you have specific issues with an editor, you should take them to the appropriate forum. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't mean to remove your comment. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I have reinstated the admin bit to Polarscribe as there have been no valid objections raised here (according to current policy). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:19, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

NihonJoe has wiped out the entire history of Polarscribe's edits to the history of the Alcatraz article which had all of the edit warring and snarky edit summaries, somewhat conveniently don't you think? All of his edits made last night and in the article today have been wiped out. Concealing the evidence here is highly suspicious.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 22:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, what? As far as I know, I've never edited any Alcatraz-related article or done anything with the logs on any of them. Please provide diffs to support your allegations. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's the revision history for the article you "worked really hard to produce from scratch" (as you state on your user talk page). I'm not in there, nor am I in the logs for the page. If you're talking about some other page, please let me know. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:49, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• User:FCYTravis has been engaging in childish vandalism and edit warring on the Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary article and clearly does not understand basic Misplaced Pages principles and objectives. Why is the sysop community restoring sysop authority to this user? Surely such an action throws in doubt the integrity of the whole community. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
  • If you have a problem with the policy, you can start an RfC and try to change it. While it remains policy, however, we have to abide by it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Note that I have full-protected the page. --Rschen7754 02:35, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
      • Isn't the "policy is policy" argument a bit like the Nuremberg defense? Surely common sense can be applied. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
        • Please don't start accusing 'crats of being Nazis. That's a totally absurd comparison. No one is going to die because of this policy, and no policies on Misplaced Pages prescribe offing people due to political or other expediency. Rules for various actions have been established by the community, and 'crats were elected/voted in/whatever you want to call it to pretty much stick to the letter of the policies. In this case, the policy (WP:RESYSOP) clearly states that as long as 'crats are satisfied that 1) the account hasn't been compromised, and 2) they didn't resign in order to avoid scrutiny of or sanctions due to their actions. It also specifically indicates that if they had their sysop rights were obviously removed due to inactivity that it is considered uncontroversial to restore them (provided the 2 points above are met). This case passes those criteria with flying colors. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
          • No offense meant. But "rules are rules" is an annoying argument when it leads to an obviously daft result. User:FCYTravis seems to be trying to convince the world (or himself) that ghosts are not real, and edit warring to make that point. My 7-year-old granddaughter says ghosts are not real but they are scary and fun, a much more mature response. I think she would be better qualified as an admin. Never mind.... Aymatth2 (talk) 03:34, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
            • There are processes in place to deal with the issues you raise, but this page is not part of them (in this case). If you have serious concerns, feel free to raise them to ArbCom. And if you think your granddaughter would make a good admin, then feel free to nominate her. Otherwise, there is no reason to continue this discussion as the policies are not going to be changed by a discussion here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

So if an editor walks off in a sulk and decides ten or twenty years later that he wants to return, then there are no questions asked, no verification of their abilities, no recent editing history to judge their "appropriate approach and conduct as a community member"? PMSL - that's the biggest "jobs for the boys" stance I've seen outside the House of Commons or the Congress. I have absolutely no doubt someone will chant the admin mantra of "the rules are the rules" or "policy is policy", but when they are so ridiculous, so laughable and so open to abuse then they make a mockery of that which you are trying to protect. It's another sad day for Wiki that the mindless knee-jerk protection of the rules has flown in the face of common sense or intelligence. - SchroCat (^ • @) 05:58, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Question: Why is someone desysoped for inactivity? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
  • It is the result of this discussion in June 2011. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Just noticed this, a bit belatedly. One of the very last admin actions he took before leaving in 2008 was the deletion of his own talk page. Isn't that abuse of admin tools? User talk pages are normally never to be deleted, so using the tools to do it anyway on your own talk page is rather problematic. Fram (talk) 10:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Yup. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 10:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure someone will come along and nicely whitewash over all this for us though - and naughty us for questioning the "power in perpetuity" RfC (not policy, only an RfC). To gain adminship candidates must satisfy the criteria that they adopt an "appropriate approach and conduct as a community member (quality of interaction and ability to work with others)". It's a shame that this isn't also addressed for long-term absentees too. - SchroCat (^ • @) 10:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

If the RfC to deadmin people for inactivity hadn't passed, my admin bit would never have been removed in the first place and we wouldn't be having this conversation. polarscribe (talk) 17:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Has anyone restored the deleted usertalk page? DuncanHill (talk) 12:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the deleted edits and merged them with the current user talk page. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll add to that - could someone please check all the previous deletions of his usertalk page (there are several) and sort it out? He seems to have been deleting as a system of archiving. DuncanHill (talk) 12:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Having looked at it, the previous deletions seem to be reasonable removal of some vandalism - I assume RevDel was not available at the time, so the more messy method was required. The only deletion I take issue with was the very final deletion. It's not that simple to restore though, as all revisions including the vandalism will be restored. Worm(talk) 12:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

There is significant and libelous vandalism in my talk page history. I hope that was not all mass-undeleted. polarscribe (talk) 17:10, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• And has anyone bothered to read Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive452#Unusual_action_by_admin_FCYTravis which preceded his inactivity? DuncanHill (talk) 12:10, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of questions going unanswered here and a lot of admins going awol. My reservoirs of good faith are evaporating rather quickly, I'm afraid. - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Nothing's going AWOL ... this isn't a page that admins typically watch, and there's so few Buro's. The discussions linked above suggest that the original loss of tools may be considered to be "under a cloud", which means that automatic re-granting is not typically possible, as per policy. IMHO - if I were a Buro - a re-gaining of the tools would require a re-confirmation RFA. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:42, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, he went off in a huff when his use of admin tools in a content dispute was questioned, and abused his admin tools by deleting his talk page. He then returned to engage in a content dispute and ask for his tools back. Very poor call by crats to return his tools, he clearly left to avoid scrutiny of his use of the tools. DuncanHill (talk) 13:45, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reply BW. Out of interest, how long can an admin go awol and come back to get his tools, without any question as to his suitability? Cheers (and thanks for sticking your head over the parapet, where others seem not to want to!) - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I think that's the pertinent question. In fact, I recently de-sysoped someone on their own request because they said that after not having the time to use the tools for a few months, they didn't feel adequately commensurate with the various policies etc which may have changed. The re-sysop here was technically correct, but it certainly looks like we have a case to answer in situations such as this with regard to the re-sysoping of long-term absent editors, and some re-evaluation of how or why such editors left in the first place. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Given the ANI discussion and out-of-process talk page deletion, are you sure it was a correct re-sysop? DuncanHill (talk) 14:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I meant purely from a "resysop-following-desysop-as-a-result-of-inactivity" perspective. Of course, a lot more has come to light which requires further analysis (as I alluded to above). I did mention above that we should be looking into this more closely ("I'm sure we'll take a longer, harder look now") but perhaps we didn't look hard enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• It took me less than a minute without access to any special tools to find that ANI thread. I would be happy to provide a masterclass to crats in how to "look at an editor's contributions" and "search ANI" if you feel it would be helpful ;) DuncanHill (talk) 14:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Sounds like you'd be an ideal candidate for WP:RFB? I'm sorry I didn't stick around here long enough last night to continue in the debate. The discussion was somewhat railroaded by threats of resignation and accusations of edit warring. When I say "look harder", I mean both "look harder" at the candidate and "look harder" at the processes that govern our resysopping. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:33, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• RM, I think that the problem is we both have looked hard—very hard—at this candidate and neither I nor DH like what we see here (please correct me if I'm wrong DH). This admin edit warred in '08 and attempted to justify 3RR violations with "but I was in the right". He then retired before the ANI was brought to a conclusion. He comes back and his first set of edits are edit warring, with the justification of "but I was in the right". (This behavious is bad for an editor: it's just unacceptable for an admin) He then comes here—after FOUR YEARS of inactivity, during which the landscape has changed considerably—and his tools are handed back without any circumstance even being looked into. The claim that this admin left his account in good standing is highly questionable and it appears that he is starting up exactly where he left off: edit warring. Will this admin be allowed to continue being an admin on that basis? - SchroCat (^ • @) 14:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, I acknowledged that, I said yesterday we needed to look more closely at this request. I can't speak for Nihonjoe (or any other bureaucrat for that matter) but I thought at least one vaguely uninvolved 'crat should at least say something here. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I have to say that given the circumstances of the departure, in my opinion it was wrong of Nihonjoe to re-sysop - at the very least Nihonjoe needs to explain why the ANI thread and the talkpage deletion did not trouble him. I would expect a fairly high standard of scrutiny by crats when granting re-sysop. I would hope also that Polarscribe would edit his userpage to make clear who he is, and provide links to his talk page archives (as his previous method of archiving makes them hard for editors to find). DuncanHill (talk) 15:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I have restored the deleted talk page edits as they hadn't been immediately apparent when I looked previously (he had been renamed, and the deleted edits were on the redirect from the previous username talk page). I also merged the histories of the two pages so they are now all together. This should avoid this issue in the future. As for the ANI page, I hadn't seen that until now (for some reason, it didn't come up when I did a quick search before...perhaps I had a typo in my search terms). After reading it, I can see why there would be concerns, and I think they may be sufficient to be a "cloud", though technically, the tools were not removed under a cloud as that happened for inactivity a few years after he took the self-imposed wikibreak. He did, however, go on his break due to the scrutiny found in that ANI thread. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I object to the idea that there was a "cloud" - you will note that I self-reverted my actions before departing and no unbiased reading of the ANI thread can be said to create a consensus that my actions had been significantly inappropriate. Nothing was ever brought to ArbCom. polarscribe (talk) 17:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• While the tools were not removed as the result of any "cloud", your actions were clearly seen as significantly inappropriate byt a large number of participants in that thread. Not being brought to ArbCom is a poor reason for thinking you didn't do something wrong. It sounds like someone telling people, "Well, I was never convicted!" Surely you can find a stronger argument than that? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:19, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks RM. Your approach and comments are appreciated. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I am sure much has changed in the last four years since this editor was active in terms of policies, procidures and the outcome of RfCs (which are not hard and fast policies in themselves). Would it not be more applicable to have a trial period of a month or so on normal editing duties while they find their feet once again? It would allow a much clearer understanding of whether that individual met the basic criteria, including "appropriate approach and conduct as a community member (quality of interaction and ability to work with others)". Certainly, in this case, the recent attitude to a supposedly consensus driven approach left an awful lot to be desired and fell short of any reasonable standard of an ability to interact and work with others. - SchroCat (^ • @) 14:20, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not sure about a "trial period", but as I said above, it looks like we need to take a closer look at this kind of resysoping. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Then don't allow them to re-tool if they have been absent for over two years, without undergoing an RFA and being put through the same process as everyone else in regards to "appropriate approach and conduct". Do you think there is another course of action, given the current set up is flawed? - SchroCat (^ • @) 14:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, it may be that a time limit for inactivity can be agreed upon by the community. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:58, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• I agree. It may be good to revisit the policy and set a time limit for return of tools without an RfA. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:14, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
• I also agree it would be worth re-visiting the policy. It would require notification of those who resigned the tools or had them removed for inactivity to provide a window where they could request them back, but the original idea who probably the product of compromise, not logic. MBisanz 20:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Seriously? The fact that the article in question from four years ago has long since been deleted with fire as a coatrack for pedophiles is proof enough, I believe, that the actions I took then were correct in spirit. In fact, the person who wrote it was then banned by ArbCom for advocating pederasty. You will note that before I left, I self-reverted the disputed action. The fact is that nobody filed an ArbCom case against me, there was no "cloud" and I was never threatened with the removal of tools. If you're looking to drag more stuff up from four years ago, I'm sure you'll find it. Sigh. polarscribe (talk) 16:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

"You believe", yet the ANI report - and your improper blanking of your talkpage as you left - show that a cloud did, in fact, exist. Your attitude above really shows that you still don't get this project - but if you really think you do, go ahead, put yourself up for a reconfirmation RFA today. Please, because you don't deserve the tools any other way. It was sneaky, underhanded, and dishonest to re-request them the way you have, considering what led to your "voluntary" departure (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

You're reacting much the same as you did in that ANI thread: basically "How dare you question my actions? I know what I'm doing so just drop it!" is hardly the correct attitude, especially when you were wrong in that case. You should have had an uninvolved admin review things and take any action they thought was necessary. You should not have done it yourself as you were very clearly involved in the dispute. Simple as that. No one is questioning whether the article should have been deleted. They are questioning your method of doing so. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Nihonjoe, I assume that now that you're aware that a "cloud" existed, that you have undone the erroneous and against-policy re-sysop? He "left" under a cloud, whether or not the tools were removed because of it - his leaving probably put a hold on any desysop RFC's (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

No, it hasn't been undone as of yet. Current policy doesn't allow me to remove the bit except in specific circumstances (see WP:CRAT#Removal of permissions). If Polarscribe were to request the removal in order to undergo an RfA, then I could do it. The only other reasons I can remove it are due to inactivity and per an official request from ArbCom. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:27, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. If you erroneously added the sysop bit to my alternate account, you would immediately remove it. You have erroneously re-added the bit back to an account because you missed the "cloud", and since the "cloud" is a valid reason for not re-implementing the bit in these situations as per policy, then you have full authority to remove it (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:34, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

There was an ANI consensus that I had acted wrongly. I acknowledge that, and I did act wrongly. There was no consensus that my improper actions rose to the level of desysopping. Nor was there any ArbCom determination that I should be desysopped or that I had left under a cloud. polarscribe (talk) 17:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

There was no consensus in that ANI thread to remove my sysop bit, nor did ArbCom rule that I left under a cloud. After being too bold, I recognized my error, disengaged from the situation and allowed community processes to work. My bit was removed for inactivity, pure and simple. polarscribe (talk) 17:20, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

You left in order to avoid scrutiny of your actions, and in leaving abused the tools by deleting your talk page (again, hampering scrutiny of your actions). That is under a cloud. DuncanHill (talk) 20:17, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I was too bold in that situation, clearly. As the record indicates, I reverted my own (too-strong) action and disengaged from the situation. polarscribe (talk) 17:13, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

"Too bold"? No - you flat out broke the very rules you promised to uphold when you took the admin bit (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Very clearly. It may be in your best interest to follow BWilkins' suggestion and put yourself through RfA again. Things have changed quite a lot in the last 4 years, and while your tools weren't removed as the result of any "cloud", how you left certainly makes it at least partly cloudy. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

That would be the neatest and probably most transparent solution to this. As it's clear polarscribe believes he has nothing to hide, a new RFA shouldn't be a big problem, and should be a good opportunity to demonstrate he's still up to speed with all the relevant policies etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I thought there had been discussion earlier this year to allow a period of scrutiny before restoring Admin rights? Looks like the 'crat arrived too early here. Maybe 24 hours would have been enough to uncover what looks like a cloud. Leaky Caldron 17:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

If there is any allegation that I misuse the admin tools in the future, I consent to any bureaucrat desysoping me immediately without discussion. I have no intention of "going rogue." polarscribe (talk) 17:25, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with running in a new RFA, do you? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I do. For one, I haven't had time to make significant contributions since returning. For two, this has attracted all sorts of people who appear ready to pitchfork-and-torch me out of here for no other reason than "you did something four years ago."

I repeat - if there is any serious allegation that I misuse the admin tools in the future, I consent to a request being placed here for an immediate desysop by any bureaucrat pending a new RfA. polarscribe (talk) 17:33, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Then let me put this clearly: I seriously allege that you will misuse the admin tools in the future. There. Resign the tools, and re-RFA (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:42, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Cute, but that's not what I said. polarscribe (talk) 17:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I still don't see the issue with RFA. If the community no longer have confidence in you then you should abide by it. If you can adequately demonstrate that you'll be a fine admin four years after your last edit, no problem either. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure we really need your consent for that, one way or another any misuse of admin tools could easily end with the mop being removed. A new RFA would reinforce your case that you are up to speed with all the policy changes that have happened over the past four years of your absence. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It's not necessarily a question of four years ago. The first edits on your return were to edit war, with the justification of "but I was in the right": it's groundhog day all over again! Allied to your attitude being as far removed from the consensus approach as possible, I'm not surprised you want to avoid any form of oversight. - SchroCat (^ • @) 17:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Polarscribe - you clearly left with the intention of avoiding further scrutiny of your use of tools, and in doing so blatantly abused them by deleting your usertalk page. Go to RfA. DuncanHill (talk) 19:48, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The level of abuse required to find a person ineligible to reclaim adminship is such that it is likely the person would have been desysopped by Arbcom had they not left or resigned. I highly doubt one can say there is a 51% chance deletion of his own usertalk page or even the out of process deletion of the article would have resulted in an Arbcom finding of desysopping. MBisanz 20:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe one question that needs to be answered by editors desysopped by inactivity is "why do you need the mop after all this time?". polarscribe has indicated that he wants to "edit articles and improve things", so I'm not sure on the real necessity for admin rights there. I think something like 99.5% of Misplaced Pages is available to be edited by anyone, so to re-appear after four years and request the admin bit back rather than just get on and edit articles is now feeling more and more suspect to me. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree it's a stupid system that desysops for inactivity without any requirements to get it back, but I believe it was done that way as a compromise between the "adminship is for life" and "adminship is not for life" camps in the RFC. Changing it to ask the question you do presents two problems: 1. People can just lie and say "I decided I wanted to go back to blocking usernames at WP:UAA" and there would be no way to require them to follow through; 2. What's a "good answer"? That seems like an fairly subjective judgment for a crat to have to make given varying views on the level of competence required at WP:RFA. MBisanz 20:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Two different issues I can see instantly, (1) motive = why would an editor re-appear after four years and within a couple of edits, ask to be re-sysopped despite claiming they wish to simply go about improving articles (2) ability = after four years of absence, how could the community justifiably have faith that during that four-year leave the editor in question has kept themselves fully abreast of all the changes that are relevant to being an effective admin? Hence the conclusion that a new RFA is just about the only way to resolve this specific case. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Point 1 is well-taken, Point 2 I strongly disagree with. There are some admins who have had the tools many years and used them a handful of times, but retain them by editing articles or editing infrequently. Once we start down the slippery slop of saying the mere passage of time destroys community faith, it begins hard to maintain that admins can keep faith when not using the tools on a consistent basis, which would discourage people from becoming admins unless they are willing to dedicate a signficiant portion of their editing time to admin work. MBisanz 20:20, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Point 2 is not actually your ground. Quite clearly there's an issue that a former admin has been resysoped after such a long period. The community, as witnessed here, clearly do _not_ have faith, for one reason or another, in this resysop, nor the precedent it appears to set. We have to face up to that. I'm not suggesting admins need to spend a disproportionate amount of time "admin-ing" but you surely must acknowledge that a lot has changed on Misplaced Pages since 2008. Expecting the community to accept an near-instant resysop for someone who hasn't made a single edit, admin or otherwise, in four years is really pushing the boundaries of what we're here to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:27, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec)I trust you are musing about a possible change in policy, not debating the handling of this case? While Dr. Blofeld felt those kind of questions should have been asked in connection with this request, MBisanz made a persuasive case that existing policy did not permit such an investigation. It may well be worth a community discussion of how to handle the next case, but I don't think that will be an easy task. For example, in the case of an active admin, who has a life event causing a voluntary relinquishment, followed six moths later by request for the tools back, I would be inclined to think the answer is simply, thanks, yes. On the other hand, an editor who has been away for several years is almost certainly not on top of current policies, as well as important unwritten conventions. In that case, I would reject a simple request, and urge a few months of editing followed by an RfA. Then there are cases in between those two extremes. A proper policy will take some thinking.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 20:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• "MBisanz made a persuasive case that existing policy did not permit such an investigation": actually MBisanz made the decision based on there being no controversial circumstances regarding the previous life of the editor. However, if you actually read Misplaced Pages:Administrators#Procedural removal for inactive administrators you'll see that the guidelines are "If the user returns to Misplaced Pages, they may be resysopped by a bureaucrat without further discussion as long as there are no issues with the editor's identity and they stopped editing Misplaced Pages while still in good standing or in uncontroversial circumstances." Given the ANI that was still in progress when the editor "retired", I'm not entirely sure that the account was in good standing or in uncontroversial circumstances. If MBisanz undertook an administrative action based on an erroneous reading of the circumstances then it is an easily reversable step - what admin has done, admin can undo, surely. - SchroCat (^ • @) 21:43, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Several things:

1. Nihonjoe did the resysop, I support his decision, but he made the decision.

2. The good standing standard is not one of if the admin leaves in harmony with the universe; it is whether the admin gives up the tools to avoid a likely desysopping. A thread at ANI regarding an out of process deletion does not meet that more stringent standard.

3. I did review the ANI thread prior to opining.

4. No, crats can't just go and undo a flag grant; it isn't a normal admin action. Crats can involuntarily remove the right only at Arbcom direction, for inactivity, or in an emergency. They cannot remove it because they later change their mind on an RFA close. It is an irreversible grant. MBisanz 22:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

So your cock-ups remain permanent then? (and yes, I do see the decision here as a cock-up. If it isn't then there is something seriously flawed with your interpretation of the terms "good standing" and "uncontroversial circumstances"). Giving tools to an admin whose last edits four years ago, (and first edits on his return) were edit warring, talk page blanking, anti-consensual, arrogant and full of ad hominem comments is not a terribly sensible pathway and obviously does not sit well with a number of people here. I have no doubt your reply will be "but policy is policy", even if that happens to fly in the face of your own policies in the shape of "If the user returns to Misplaced Pages, they may be resysopped by a bureaucrat without further discussion as long as there are no issues with the editor's identity and they stopped editing Misplaced Pages while still in good standing or in uncontroversial circumstances." - SchroCat (^ • @) 22:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

This really isn't the place for a discussion of this matter, but accusing me of ad hominem comments in the recent dispute is pretty rich, considering that Dr. Blofeld first referred to me as a "newbie" "sockpuppet", pulled geolocation data from my (then-unregistered) IP address and later called me a "banned administrator" and an "arrogant professor". Please provide diffs in which I made personal attacks against Dr. Blofeld. I made plenty of remarks attacking the content he added, and perhaps those could have been worded differently. But I made no aspersions about Dr. Blofeld's personality, profession, location or Misplaced Pages history. polarscribe (talk) 22:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Who said they were against Doc Blofeld? The first two comments I had to make directly to you were about your attitude and to stop making ad hominems. The first concerned my "mind boggling" lack of understanding (where you really didn't grasp what I was trying to to do. The second was the one you accused me of being a sock of Doc, or vice versa. These are comments against an individual, not against an edit and that is not acceptable from an admin. No wonder you're too scared to go before an RFA - you'd not get past first base on the attitude alone. - SchroCat (^ • @) 23:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure how "mind boggling" constitutes a personal attack. Really? You're correct, the sock accusation (like the one against me) was unwarranted, overheated and I apologize for making it. polarscribe (talk) 23:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It's a comment on an individual and not an edit. That you don't understand this is concerning. Were things really that different four years ago? - SchroCat (^ • @) 23:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Polarscribe, given the history we now have, I do not see how you can credibly carry on as an admin without passing a fresh RfAd. Telling us not to have this discussion here does nothing for your position. DuncanHill (talk) 22:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean that there's no place for this discussion. But it properly belongs in an RfC on the behavior of both myself and Dr. Blofeld. What's more, no part of my behavior in that case violated Misplaced Pages editing or administrative policy. There was a brief edit war, I backed away, the article is status quo and not in my preferred version. I have not abused (or even used) administrative tools on that article. polarscribe (talk) 22:58, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The discussion here is primarily about you regaining the admin tools, not about your edit war with Dr Blofeld. You left to avoid scrutiny of your use of the tools, and in doing so further abused them by deleting your talk page. DuncanHill (talk) 23:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, then why did User:Schrodinger's cat is alive bring up the edit war? Someone criticizes me over the edit war, I respond to it, and you tell me to stick to the subject? Is this Kafkaville? polarscribe (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Again, you ignore the primary issue. You left to avoid scrutiny, deleted your talk page, and failed to mention anything about that when reclaiming tools. DuncanHill (talk) 23:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I did not "leave to avoid scrutiny," I left to break away from an edit war. No RfC was filed, no ArbCom decision was made and there is no honest reading of that ANI thread which supports a consensus to remove my admin bit. I suppose you could file an ArbCom case based upon a four-year-old improper administrative action which I self-reverted when it became clear that the community opposed it. polarscribe (talk) 23:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom at the time wouldn't take cases where an editor had left (not sure if they would now). I do not agree that a consensus in the ANI thread for removal is necessary to prevent re-syssopping here. Also, you DID abuse the tools by deleting your talk page. DuncanHill (talk) 23:17, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The ANI thread does contain a significant opinion that deleting my talk page was acceptable, with the caveat that if I ever returned, it should be undeleted. I have returned and it has been undeleted. There was, at the time, no inviolable policy prohibiting the deletion of user talk pages. If that has changed, I accept that change and will not do so in the future. polarscribe (talk) 23:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I must have missed where you requested it be undeleted... Given your "pitchfork" comments elsewhere, it's pretty clear you don't take concerns raised here at all seriously. DuncanHill (talk) 23:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It was undeleted by User:Nihonjoe as part of the account merging process. I've got to go back through and delete a number of talk page revisions containing nasty, libelous personal-attack vandalism, but I have absolutely no objection to legitimate comments on my talk page. polarscribe (talk) 23:40, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I strongly recommend that you don't revdel anything on your own talk page, but instead request another admin to do that. Deleting your own talk page was part of the problem before, so doing it again is not a good thing. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:42, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't matter one jot if you did object. I know it was undeleted (as we've already established, I do know how to look at histories and contributions, and even page logs, and I have been paying attention to what has been posted here). DuncanHill (talk) 23:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Of course it wouldn't matter. But you don't see me redeleting the talk page, do you? As discussed in that ANI thread you're so fond of, those involved expressed an acceptance of the deletion as long as I was away. I'm back and so is the talk page. polarscribe (talk) 23:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

You didn't ask for it to be undeleted, that only happened after it was complained about here (and you expressed reluctance for it to be undeleted). It does not change the fact that you left under a cloud relating to your use of tools, and the effect of your leaving was to prevent scrutiny. Your judgement in that case and your behaviour since returning suggest you shouldn'r be an admin at the moment. Get some editing experience, familiarise yourself with policy, then go to RfAd. DuncanHill (talk) 23:51, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Support—strongly - SchroCat (^ • @) 23:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I didn't have a *chance* to ask for it to be undeleted - it was done as part of the merger process, as I understand it. I have not expressed reluctance for it to be undeleted - I simply urged caution when undeleting because there is significant vandalism in the edit histories which policy permits me to remove. A simple request for me to do so would have sufficed as well, but it was done before I even had a chance to consider it. polarscribe (talk) 23:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Oversight is your friend. It was done after editors here complained about the deletion - and should have been done as soon as you returned. Please try to keep up! Now, about your attitude - what did you mean by dismssing those expressing concerns here with your "pitchfork" comment? DuncanHill (talk) 00:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding point 2, I either don't see this as a slippery slope, or perhaps I do, but think the sliding down it is warranted. I'm a professional and despite working as a professional every day, my profession requires that I take Continuing Ed to keep abreast, and specific CE in professionalism areas. We have no such requirement here. There are admins who are rusty. We've ignored it. We shouldn't.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 20:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Quite so. We need a requirement for our admins to be up to speed. Four years out of the picture is a lifetime of change in Misplaced Pages terms. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm very much a believer that ancient history shouldn't be forever coming back to bite us. Reviewing the 2008 discussion, and the recent actions of polarscribe I don't see anything too disconcerting. That said I think there is good argument for a prescribed wait before returning to tools upon request - and also for clarifying what "under a cloud" means. I am cautious of such steps because it could present an easy path for those with a dislike of the returning editor to leverage non-return (hence careful clarification of "under a cloud"). In this case I think it is clear that several crats should have discussed this resysop, especially when the 2008 discussion appeared, and may have decided not to allow it. However they are also correct that the current policy (deliberately) doesn't give much leeway in their decision. This is because the community would otherwise have rejected the proposal for crats to manage de/re-sysoping :) (there is all manner of political history to this if you dig into the original RFC). The comments above about the deletion of the user talk page and reference to it as "abuse of admin tools" is patheticpoor rhetoric! Certainly it was out of process and questionable - but polarscribe has provided 100% adequate reasoning for it. Continued hounding over that matter seems ridiculous. ADDING: he has given his view, others disagree, as I note below the best place to calmly discuss this is RFC/U, not asking the same question over and over. Bottom line; if you think polarscribe's actions require community review I suggest and RFC/U followed by an arbcom case if warranted. Further discussion here isn't going to actually progress anything, it is just hot air :) If a crat reverses the decision now a whole other swathe of the community is likely to take up arms and cause equal amounts of heat here! In tandem to that, it is clear we need to discuss resysoping in more depth, and the climate may well be right for extending this process further. But making it about a single editor is counterproductive and unfair to them. At the end of the day, polarscribe does not appear to be the devil incarnate, so perhaps we could stop waving the pitchforks? --Errant 14:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Indulge me, what "100% adequate reasoning" has he provided for the deletion of his user talk page? I must have missed it. Fram (talk) 14:35, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Above I noted that he says there was libellous vandalism on the page, and someone else noted that therefore the only way to remove it at that time was deletion. excuse me if I am wrong on that! EDIT: I see that the latter part of Worm's post passed me by :) sorry, I do still think it is a rather minor "crime" in the grand scale of things. --Errant 14:39, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't the only way to deal with it at that time. I've had similar problems, and didn't get my whole talk page deleted. DuncanHill (talk) 14:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec)He had repeatedly selectively deleted it, which was not a problem: but when he left, he deleted it completely, which was a problem. Whether it was a major or minor "crime, and whether it strengthens the opinion that he left under a cloud or not, are separate discussions; but it does look as if he indeed did not provide such 100% adequate reasoning as you thought he did. Thanks for taking the time to recheck this! Fram (talk) 14:46, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Sure, struck/modified parts of my comment. The core of what I am trying to say still stands though. --Errant 14:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

• This brings back a question I asked a while ago and no one has a satisfactory answer. Why are the crats auctioning these requests without a 24-hour hold time, once agreed as ideal, to allow scrutiny of the request? We have an action that is clearly in error here, and where if the resysop had not been done in a hasty four hours, it could have been caught and prevented. No one will be hurt without the admin tools for a single short day while everyone has a chance to make sure there wasn't a cloud, and here, it sure looks as if there was one. Courcelles 02:14, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

• FWIW, I had reviewed the ANI thread and decided it did not create a cloud (for the reasons I've stated above) and at least two other crats had opined in favor of restoration after their own reviews, so I would not call it a request that had insufficient scrutiny. MBisanz 23:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposal

Please see my proposed modification to policy at Wikipedia_talk:Administrators#Restoration_of_the_tools_.28proposal.29. Thanks. MBisanz 20:20, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Polarscribe in content dispute, uses tools to protect his preferred version

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title says it all really . DuncanHill (talk) 13:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

1. His revert of an obvious test edit or vandalism is permitted under WP:INVOLVED: In cases which are straightforward, (e.g. blatant vandalism), the community has historically endorsed the obvious action of any administrator – even if involved – on the basis that any reasonable administrator would have probably come to the same conclusion.

2. Why is this here and not at WP:AN? MBisanz 13:10, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

It suggests a lack of sensitivity from him (to put it mildly) - it's trivially easy to get a non-involved admin to protect. Not at AN yet because it's so obviously related to all above that I thought it might be of interest to those who have already contributed here. DuncanHill (talk) 13:15, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure sensitivity is the word I'd use; my experience would tell me the right answer would have been to indef the other user until he promises to stop vandalizing, but page protection isn't a wholly unreasonable response and I might use the word suboptimal. MBisanz 13:19, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

New user making a point which could be said to have some validity though in the wrong way (I mean the other chap, not Polarscribe) - there are more helpful ways to start. Still, if we're going back to the "block first, let someone else try to help later" interpretation of WP:BITE that was current in the lone-gunslinger-admin days then thanks for the heads up. There are warning templates nowadays including a basic welcome box, so as to make it easier for new users to realise where they are going wrong. Wasn't there some kind of new admin school somewhere and could we get Polarscribe to sign up to it? DuncanHill (talk) 13:27, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's called "WP:RFA" ;-) (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:43, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, it would be better than nothing! Seriously tho' wasn't there some kind of new admin mentoring or training at some point? I swear I'm this close to dropping a generic newb's welcome box on his talk page. DuncanHill (talk) 13:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean WP:NAS? MBisanz 13:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

The new user had three warnings, including one from ClueBot, prior to their last edit to the page. I believe that is sufficient notice that he was doing something wrong and should not have made the subsequent edit to the page. MBisanz 13:45, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Protection was a perfectly appropriate action for repeated page blanking. Reverting vandalism/clearly misguided edits like that is not a content dispute, that would imply that either version would be acceptable. --Conti|✉ 13:36, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't straightforward blanking (tho' you have to be prepared to look for yourself to see that). You haven't bothered to answer my point about getting an uninvolved admin in, or about beoing less bitey to a misguided newbie. Back to the old days indeed! DuncanHill (talk) 13:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the edits he was an uninvolved admin, all his actions were administrative in nature. This wasn't a content dispute. -DJSasso (talk) 13:49, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Remind me never to send a newb to you for help. DuncanHill (talk) 13:50, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

He went to stop an edit war and his process was: protect the page (rather than block), revert the clearly unsuitable content and drop a note to the user. What exactly would you have liked to see him do??? --Errant 13:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention the user received 3 warnings. If anything he handled this a lot better than most people would. The user probably should have been blocked but polarscribe took the nicer route of protecting the page instead. -DJSasso (talk) 13:59, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

What exactly would I have liked him to do? Well, for those of you who haven't read what I have already said, 1) Try to educate the new user, and 2) if he felt protection was still appropriate get an uninvolved admin to do the deed. DuncanHill (talk) 14:04, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Did you read the talk page of the user. His first post to that page was him trying to educate the user. -DJSasso (talk) 14:05, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

In nearly all contexts which I am familiar with, best practices diverge from mandatory policies in that best practices represent the ideal manner of doing things and mandatory policies represent the minimum acceptable level of compliance. A violation of policy is grounds for a complaint, a failure to meet best practices, not usually (at least beyond reminding the person that the best practice exists). MBisanz 14:08, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Inactive administrators#November 2012

Inactive administrators notification was delayed a week and today is listed day of removal for the following:

• Fastfission (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Flockmeal (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Humblefool (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Johntex (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• JWSchmidt (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Khukri (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Pollinator (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Shanel (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Tizio (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)
• Vzbs34 (talk · email · contribs · deleted · logs · last entry · listuser · centralauth · target logs · userrights)

Thanks. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 20:19, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 08:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Request for desysop

With cool heads, some good faith and a brief, thoughtful discussion (far more useful than a dozen-indent-level drama-storm), I would like to request a voluntary removal of my mop and bucket, so that I may take a month or so to bring myself back up to speed with the project and what all has changed since I've been away. polarscribe (talk) 06:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages noticeboards
• Misplaced Pages bureaucratship