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Revision as of 22:09, 10 May 2006

John Bowlby

Bowlby's Study of Maternal deprivation

Aims: To investigate the effects of maternal deprivation on people. To see whether deliquents had suffered deprivation.

Procedures: Bowlby took two groups of 44 males. One group consisted solely of thieves, the other contained males that had committed other crimes (non-thieves). He asked them to state whether they had suffered maternal deprivation and for how long.

Findings: Bowlby found that 17 of the thieves had suffered a separation for 6 months or more before the age of 5 years. Only 2 of the non-thieves had suffered this. 14 of the thieves had affectionless psychopathy. 12 of these had been deprived.

Conclusion: Affectionless psychopaths show little concern ofr others and are unable to form relationships. Bowlby believed that this resulted from deprivation. the study appears to support the claim that maternal deprivation can lead to affectionless psychopathy.

Evaluation: The sample was NOT REPRESENTATIVE of the general population. The data collected was RETROSPECTIVE. This meant that bowlby was asking the participants to look back and recall separations. These memories may not be accurate. Boiwlby designed and conducted the experiment himself. This may have lead to BIAS ANALYSIS of the results. There was only a correlation between the two findings, and CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION. It is also not possible to find the direction of causation. This study appears to support Bowlby's claim, but it may also be said that it only shows that children who have been deprivaed are MORE LIKELY TO BECOME THIEVES than any other criminal.

miz opel

Remember that every investigation / experiment is theory-driven. Denying that is possibly much more harmful, than not sticking exactly to what is presently considered good experimental design. In my opinion J. Bowlby has done great work. Even if it is as you say, that the investigation resulted in finding that deprived children are more likely to become thieves, this is what I consider a valuable outcome. What are you expecting? - A single cause determining a persons character and behaviour, regardless of all other influences?
Even Physics is dependent on probabilities not certainties, leave alone human behaviour. 84.166.80.157 15:59, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Bibliography

Someone seems to have the idea that if a book mentions Bowlby (correctly or incorrectly), then it qualifies to be in a Misplaced Pages bibliography. I have deleted (for the second time) a vanity book which has been inserted in the bibliography, but is not a good reference on John Bowlby (or his work). The other references seem appropriate and should remain.

I disagree and so have put the reference back. The text is an edited text which describes a treatment methodology based on Attachment Theory and which relies on the work of Sir Bowlby. Since the text was endorsed by Dr. Dan Siegel of the UCLA Medical School (and Sir Richard Bowlby, Sir John's son) it is not a vanity book and should remain.

Nonsense. That it is a "treatment methodology" based on "Attachment Theory" doesn't mean it has anything to do with John Bowlby personally (which is what this article is supposed to be about). (Indeed, your reference to "Sir Bowlby" displays an ignorance of British forms of address; moreover, it shows an ignorance about John Bowlby's biography -- he was never a knight or a baronet.) Endorsement of a book, especially by someone like Sir Richard who has no credentials whatever in the field, doesn't make the tome any more relevant, and doesn't make the publisher less of a subsidy publisher (i.e., vanity press). Putting this reference here, more so as the first item in the bibliography, is shameless self-promotion and degrades Misplaced Pages. It should go. I will keep deleting it as long as you keep adding it. 206.81.65.234 06:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Since the treatment is based on John Bowlby's theory and materials it is an example of how theory is related to practice; just like a bio of A. Beck's theory should inlcude reference to CBT. Dr. Siegel has ample credentials (Developing Mind being one of his substantial publications). The fact that your comments are the same as those of Mercer in another context suggests you might be one of her advocates...but maybe not. The publisher is not a vanity press, so your comments are clearly meant to defame. The biblio. is in alpha order...and is neither self-promotion nor degrading and you should continue your comments but leave it as is per Wiki procedures and policy. You always have the right to have this dispute mediated if you wish.

There already is a link to "Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy", just above the bibliography, that serves the purpose you state. Putting "incidental" references in a bibliography such as this is a disservice to Misplaced Pages readers, who have a right to expect references (especially hard-to-find ones in libraries) to be worth the effort to look at. Anyone interested solely in Bowlby is going to be frustrated with this reference. (And really, "Woods & Barnes" is not a subsidy publisher?) This reference is advertising. Consistent with Wiki efforts against spam, I'm still deleting it. I suggest you leave it off. You always have the right to have this dispute mediated if you wish; I'll happily respond to a mediator. 206.81.65.234 15:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

A reference that relates to an entry is always appropriate. No Wood N Barnes is not a subsidy publisher...if you did some research you'd easily see that. I am putting the reference back as it belongs there and the procedure on Wiki is to discuss it here. If you wish to mediate this, I'd agree. regards

I've decided to suspend my reversion efforts while we see whether you believe any of what you've just said, to be judged by your reaction to my most recent article edits. As for Wood N Barnes, I'll retract my prior statement for now. I have no evidence they are a subsidy publisher. They are just insignificant, IMHO. 206.81.65.234 08:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Bowlby's Theory in Practice

Well, well, Mr/Ms 68.66.160.228, we now see that you are not really a follower of the Wiki philosophy as you were claiming before. I go to all the trouble to rewrite a section to give a better encyclopedic account and you respond not by trying to get into the Wiki spirit of things and "improving" my account, but by just reverting to the old version. No discussion here (as you had suggested was appropriate in our other dispute), just revert.

Fine, this time I'm not going to yield to sophistry. We can trade reverts as long as you want. Or you can put some serious thought into your submissions and see if future exchanges can ultimately come up with an improved Wiki article on John Bowlby. Or you can leave my version alone and we can discuss it here, as you suggested be done when the shoe was on the other foot.

Your move. (Unless <hint> someone else -- on either side of the issue -- wants to jump in and do their own thing and take this onto still another path.) 206.81.65.234 04:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

On closer inspection, I see that one paragraph actually had been "improved" by Mr/Ms 68.66.160.228. So in the spirit I mentioned above, I have improved it further. (It is now two paragraphs instead of one.) Gosh, this is fun. 206.81.65.234 06:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Your comments sound like your must be Mercer's adopted son; based on previous discussions and correspondance from him. I wonder what Mercer thinks of this...it is a shame that she has to get others to do her bidding and cannot speak for herself. I suppose some of the threats of litigation that were made to her dean and others have made her more cautious about saying things herself and maybe lead her to use others to speak for her? Just a thought.

It's getting a little tiring correcting the misinformation that is being posted on Misplaced Pages about Jean Mercer, but just for the record, she does not have any adopted children. I don't know what correspondence you are referring to, but if there was in fact any actual correspondence between you and a son of Jean Mercer, it was with her biological son.

Let's get real

I note that user AWeidman (a/k/a Arthur Becker-Weidman) has taken ownership of the editing of this section after doing much damage under the sock puppet of his IP address (68.66.160.228). He reverted the small but valuable improvements made by 62.142.4.69 to the really horrible prose posted as by 68.66.160.228.

I take strong exception to the statements of fact made by Mr. Becker-Weidman. As a result of his edits and reversions, this section is almost entirely fiction. In particular, his statement that a condemnatory statement by the APSAC task force did not refer to either him or DDP was flat untrue. APSAC's quote was followed by a citation to Becker-Weidman article on DDP. His characterization of critics as only "fringe advocacy groups" outside the mainstream of child psychology is demonstrably false. His claim that DDP meets the standards of the list of mainstream organizations is disputable as fact. His assertion that the proof of this claim lies with the endorsement of prominent academics is specious reasoning (argument from authority). Moreover on that last point, I challenge him to give independently verifiable citation(s) to prove such endorsements even exist.

It is a disservice to Misplaced Pages users who may happen upon this article to leave up such rubbish. Accordingly, I have reverted this section, with some minor improvements. Before he reverses my changes, I think Mr Becker-Weidman should discuss his prior falsehoods here. A Misplaced Pages editor has an obligation not to mislead the encyclopedia's readers.

206.81.65.234 17:34, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Your citations and quotations of the APSAC report are biased and clearly the work of a zealot. As a foil for Dr. Gene Lester/Jean Mercer, why don't you just have her respond. I know she is concerned about the legal ramifications, given the letter sent to her dean, but, really, having her adopted son or her foil in Colorado speak for her is transparent.

your characterization of the APSAC report and its references to Dr. Becker-Weidman is untrue and are gross distortions. Merer and her crew are clearly fringe groups outside the mainstream of child psychology. She is not even licensed in NJ. Your assertions are clearly false and slanderous. I see you don't identify yourself; obviously fearful of the slander charges. I hope that you, Dr. Mercer, undestand that you must cease such actions.

Once again, I have to step in and correct the record. Jean Mercer does not have any adopted children. I'm not sure where this assertion comes from. I've seen it elsewhere on Misplaced Pages as well (in fact, in the section right above this one). When people make up facts like this, it tends to undermine the rest of what they say as well.

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How a quotation can be "biased" unless taken out of context is beyond me. The question isn't one of bias, anyway. The question is whether it is truthful. In Dr. Becker-Weidman's apparent zeal to promote DDP he posted an untruthful account to this page. I endeavored to correct that account.

I don't know what constitutes a "fringe" group, but I do know that the views expressed in my postings to the article should not be considered outside the mainstream of child psychology. I can, with confidence, say that DDP — based as it is on several erroneous our outdated concepts about child development — is outside the mainstream. It is also not "evidence-based", as I pointed out in the posting to the article, and that leads it toward the "fringe".

The ad hominem attacks here on Jean Mercer have nothing to do with John Bowlby. And what does having a license (to do what? and why New Jersey?) have to do with John Bowlby or whether my account is true or false?

Dr. Becker-Weidman, as to your charges of slander against Dr. Mercer, let's correct the record here and now. I am not Dr. Mercer, nor related to her by birth or adoption. As I've said elsewhere, I am a friend of hers, but these postings are not hers. As for my anonymity, that may drop away at some appropriate point. It certainly is not for fear of charges of slander. So far, I've said nothing slanderous here. I'm not sure you can say the same.

The only way my postings are slanderous would be if they were untrue and defamatory of a person. Saying, for example, that APSAC task force criticized age regression and cited DDP as an example of age regression is true (see p. 79 of the report), despite your above assertions to the contrary. If you disagree, make your case here, then we can see how you argue.

206.81.65.234 16:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I see that the reversions have been moving slowly eastward. From Buffalo to Ithaca to NYC. On a road trip?

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I've reverted to the truthful version, again.

An additional point about whether APSAC takes on DDP and "Dr. Art" (as he sometimes calls himself) — the APSAC task force's report makes this statement:

"Some proponents have claimed that research exists that supports their methods, or that their methods are evidence based, or are even the sole evidence-based approach in existence, yet these proponents provide no citations to credible scientific research sufficient to support these claims (Becker-Weidman, n.d.-b). This Task Force was unable to locate any methodologically adequate clinical trials in the published peer-reviewed scientific literature to support any of these claims for effectiveness, let alone claims that these treatments are the only effective available approaches."

And the citation to Becker-Weidman above refers to the following:

Becker-Weidman, A. (n.d.-b). Dyadic developmental psychotherapy: An attachment-based therapy program. Retrieved July 2, 2004, from www.center4familydevelop.com/therapy.htm.

Give it up, Dr. Art. Your (and Dan Hughes's) precious DDP has not been recognized by the profession as an evidence-based treatment. BTW, Charles Zeanah was on the Task Force that came to this conclusion about DDP. It appears to me that it is you, and not Jean Mercer, who appears to be out of step with the big names in the field.

Further note: the incidental "Practice" section has gotten a lot larger than the main part of the article on Bowlby. The tail is wagging the dog! In at least Dr. Art's version of the section, it also doesn't have a lot to do with Bowlby any more. Something should be done about that.

206.81.65.234 21:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It appears the APSAC report quote is based on quite old information (2003 or 2004). It did not have access to or awareness of the article published in a professional peer-reviewed journal demonstrating the effectivenss of DDP when compared with a matched control group. (Child and Adolescent Social Work) DDP is recognized at this point by Dr. Daniel Siegel of UCLA medical school and author of the Developing Mind as evidence based and mainstream and effective. BTW Dr. Zeanah now would respond differently now that he has more current data.

LETS HEAR FROM MERCER

Why do Mercer and ilk resort to this biased untruthful attack campaign?

More the to point, why doesn't Mercer simply answer the questions raised? Why rely on proxy's such as Rosa and Mercer's son?

Specifically: 1. Why the name change from Gene Lester to Jean Mercer? 2. Are you licensed in NJ as a clinical psychologyist? 3. Have you ever practiced...in other words do you know what you are talking about or is this all you say just based on your own biases? 4. Why don't any of the main stream professionals in the field consider you a serious persona? (Meaning people like C. Zeanah, Main, Hesse, etc? Your responses to these questions would be a good start in clearing things up.

This obsession with Jean Mercer's name change borders on the bizarre. She has already answered the question elsewhere on Misplaced Pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Rejected_4#Parties.27_agreement_to_mediate_9. As she explained there in response to a "requestion for mediation" by Arthur Becker-Weidman:

"For the record, I am female; my mother thought it was cute to name me after my father; I changed my spelling legally at the same time I was divorced and resumed my maiden name, and I did so in an apparently fruitless effort to avoid exactly this kind of misunderstanding. Dr. Becker-Weidman was informed of this fact some months ago, and in fact had to edit a letter to a journal with respect to this point before publication was permitted."

So, to sum up for those who seem to be having trouble understanding a simple explanation: She changed "Gene" to "Jean" so people would stop confusing her gender; and she changed "Lester" to "Mercer" because she divorced her husband whose last name was "Lester" and returned to her maiden name "Mercer." I'm not sure how to make it any clearer, although given past experience, I fully expect to have to explain it again in the future. For some reason, no matter how many times this gets explained, some folks insist on raising the name change to insinuate something about her, although it's never completely clear what they are insinuating.

Nice story...can you provide proof of that? The above appears to have been provided by a thrid party...what does Mercer Say?

How can someone who is not licensed in NJ and is not a clinician have any understanding of clinical practice. Mercer is not qualified to practice in NJ or any other state!