| Revision as of 21:42, 30 November 2012 editApteva (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users12,591 edits →Other attempts← Previous edit | Revision as of 21:45, 30 November 2012 edit undoApteva (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users12,591 edits →DescriptionNext edit → | ||
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| Since September 24, Apteva has been pushing theories that proper names never have ], e.g. that airport names never have en dashes, that comet names never have en dashes, etc., and that ] is in error encouraging usage of the en dash, e.g. in its examples of ] and ], and further that the MOS has no role in styling article titles. | Since September 24, Apteva has been pushing theories that proper names never have ], e.g. that airport names never have en dashes, that comet names never have en dashes, etc., and that ] is in error encouraging usage of the en dash, e.g. in its examples of ] and ], and further that the MOS has no role in styling article titles. | ||
| :That is comet Hale-Bopp, and Mexican-American War. Spell it correctly. ] (]) 21:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| === Evidence of disputed behavior === | === Evidence of disputed behavior === | ||
Revision as of 21:45, 30 November 2012
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Statement of the dispute
Apteva has been on a persistent anti-en-dash (and anti-WP:Manual of Style) campaign since August 2012. Although he has failed to gain consensus at every requested move, move review, and other venue where he has been pushing his theory that the MOS is in error about en dashes, he keeps saying that the edit warring will continue. Several of us have told him that we interpret that as a threat, but he persists. This has been a disruptive 3 months, and shows no sign of letting up.
Desired outcome
We desire that Apteva stop the anti-en-dash and anti-MOS behaviors; no new RMs to remove en dashes from titles; no new move reviews to review RMs that close against his theories about en dashes; no new proposals at the MOS to challenge or change the consensus about en dashes; limited, as opposed to dominating, comments in RMs that others initiate about dashes, about the applicability of the MOS in styling in titles, and related topics. Generally, Apteva should learn to get the point, respect consensus, and work collaboratively instead of "my way or the highway".
Description
Since September 24, Apteva has been pushing theories that proper names never have en dashes, e.g. that airport names never have en dashes, that comet names never have en dashes, etc., and that MOS:DASH is in error encouraging usage of the en dash, e.g. in its examples of Comet Hale–Bopp and Mexican–American War, and further that the MOS has no role in styling article titles.
- That is comet Hale-Bopp, and Mexican-American War. Spell it correctly. Apteva (talk) 21:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Evidence of disputed behavior
He started by dominating the RFC discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Airports (contributors summary) and at the WT:MOS (contributors summary), especially in his Three corrections section, in each case posting more times than the next two or three contributors combined. This was exasperating. He finally swore off posting at WT:MOS for a while, but this did not last, and he continues to post attempts at rebutting those who disagree with him.
At many points along the way, he would collapse (hide) sections that expressed the views of others, especially when they tried to tell him he was being disruptive. Here and here are examples (in the latter one, he recommended that I file an RFC/U about him, which I'm finally getting to). He changed comments of others, like my complaint about him here. It is notable that another tendentious editor was recently blocked for such "censorship by {{collapse}}" behavior during a similarly singleminded style campaign (against diacritics), at WT:Biographies of living persons#diacriticsagain.
Dicklyon had extensive discussions at Apteva's talk page version of 27 Oct. about Apteva's behavior and theories. Apteva had asserted incivility and toxic and such about some discussions at MOS, but never explained what he meant, which seemed to be that people were not letting him have his way. In the middle of October, he filed complaints at WP:AE about Dicklyon and Neotarf there, and then withdrew them when they got no traction. He copied one of my notices about his AE complaint to AN/I, filing a complaint against himself, essentially, and the followed it up with a complaint about JHunterJ that ended up turning around and biting him for his own hackish wiki-lawyering. Not all of this was about en dashes, but it was all bound up in his anti-MOS campaign.
On 14 November he made several controversial moves to remove en dashes from article titles; these were in airport names, some of them articles Dicklyon had previously moved to have en dashes in this, per MOS guidance, and where Apteva knew he had no support from other editors: , , , and more.
He has started and lost numerous Requested moves discussions to remove en dashes from titles; after losing, he took them to move review to try to get the closes overturned. See in particular both of the October 2012 move reviews and 4 of the November move reviews.
He has pretty much exhausted all possible forum-shopping, and has found essentially zero support among other editors for his idiosyncratic theories (with the exception of Enric Naval on Comet Hale–Bopp for the theory that the IAU should set our style). Instead of accepting the outcome, he remains defiant about the MOS being in error; see this section.
After losing the RMs and MRVs, he started a "my way or the highway" section at WT:MOS#Ending the endash/hyphen warring, and in that section has continued to assert that the MOS is in error and that edit warring over en dashes in titles will continue until it is "fixed". Several editors have told him that comes across as a threat, yet he re-asserts it here.
Applicable policies and guidelines
{List the policies and guidelines that apply to the disputed conduct}
Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
(Provide diffs of the comments. As with anywhere else on this RfC/U, links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)
Attempts by certifier Dicklyon
Attempts by certifier SMcCandlish
- Raised behavior issues with Apteva's WT:MOS re-re-re-proposal against en dashes
- Responding to Apteva's post on my talk page about his behavior (discussion since refactored to User talk:Apteva#MOS)
- Raised behaviorial issues with Apteva again at WT:MOS in response to his allegations of being "personally attacked" whenever someone disagrees with him
Other attempts
- I have tried here to help Apteva see that continuing this particular campaign about dashes in proper names has reached the level of disruption. There is overwhelming consensus for the status quo in each of the move requests and various forums, talk pages, etc that this editor has used to make the case against the current style guide's advice on this matter, itself the result of extensive discussion and overwhelming consensus a little over a year ago. The editor's response to me was a restatement of the case and an absolutely mind-blowing claim that
There is absolutely no consensus to use an endash
. This is one of the clearest consensuses that I have seen in my time working on this project. If this editor can not see that, I think it is long past time that this editor refrained from dealing with style issues, both on the manual of style and on style-related move requests. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 21:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)- Sorry but this is absolutely absurd. Hyphens are used exclusively in airport names and comet names, and by a 50:1 margin in bridges and wars, such as in Mexican-American War. How can anyone call that an overwhelming consensus to use an endash? The overwhelming consensus is the opposite - to use a hyphen, and the MOS needs to be corrected. Apteva (talk) 21:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
- I have tried here to help Apteva see that continuing this particular campaign about dashes in proper names has reached the level of disruption. There is overwhelming consensus for the status quo in each of the move requests and various forums, talk pages, etc that this editor has used to make the case against the current style guide's advice on this matter, itself the result of extensive discussion and overwhelming consensus a little over a year ago. The editor's response to me was a restatement of the case and an absolutely mind-blowing claim that
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Response
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This is a pathetic attempt at tar and feathering that serves no purpose on Misplaced Pages. I see errors, and I fix them, plain and simple.
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