Revision as of 22:11, 11 May 2006 view sourceCharles Matthews (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators360,196 editsm →Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:10, 11 May 2006 view source Tony Sidaway (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers81,722 editsm →Involved parties: fmtNext edit → | ||
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* {{vandal|RyanFriesling}} | |||
* {{vandal|Noosphere}} | |||
* {{vandal|Kevin_Baas}} | |||
; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request ] 06:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC) | ; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request ] 06:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:10, 11 May 2006
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Request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee.
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The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.
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How to list cases
Under the Current requests section below:
- Click the "" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
- Copy the full formatting template (text will be visible in edit mode), omitting the lines which say "BEGIN" and "END TEMPLATE";
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Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template
Current requests
2004 Election Controversy
Involved parties
- Phil_Sandifer (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- RyanFriesling (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Noosphere (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Kevin_Baas (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request Phil Sandifer 06
- 04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
- All parties have been informed.
- Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
RfCs have been filed on this article, and the mediation cabal has been called in. The fact of the matter is, this article has been a problem for 18 months and has shown no signs of improvement. If there were going to be a breakthrough, there would be one by now - but the discussion can't even get past the question of whether a dispute has actually been raised, and those who complain about the article are being written off as trolls. The Wiki method in all of its nice forms has spectacularly failed. Unfortunately, this requires the intervention of the less nice forms. Phil Sandifer 06:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Phil Sandifer
For some time, 2004 U.S. presidential election controversy and irregularities and its eight sub-articles have been a hotbed of POV pushing, abominable sourcing, and the sort of reckless expansionism that goes on with current events topics as they appear in the news, coupled with the reluctance to edit that often takes place in the months following. Unlike articles about living people, which tend to generate helpful complaints to the office that get these problems fixed, the election articles have sat basically untouched. Every attempt to take care of the problem over the past 18 months has been met by the most basic refusal to engage the issues – NPOV tags are removed saying that no dispute has been raised , complaints about giving undue weight to minority points of view are shot down as not being based in policy , and attempts to detail the appalling sourcing are met with requests to repeat an hour’s work, only this time with links to make it clearer . The expectation on the part of other editors – most egregiously Ryan and Noosphere – is that those who object to the article must fix it themselves instead of adding dispute tags . The tactics point towards a clear desire to keep the article in its current form, and some of the proponents of its current form have explicitly stated their goal of representing under-represented viewpoints. And all of this is done with a healthy dose of assumptions of bad faith . The result is a series of articles that leans entirely on the partisan press and blogs for a story that was never widely reported. The problem is analogous to obscure pseudosciences where there is next to no material against them because nobody ever took them seriously enough to refute – or, alternatively, to LaRouche.
A quick comment regarding Xed's statement... absolutely all of it is completely untrue. Phil Sandifer 15:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
- Also, it should be noted, lest this be seen as me raising Xed 3, Xed is not actually involved in this dispute. Phil Sandifer 17:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Xed
The request revolves around a content dispute. Content disputes are not covered by "Requests for arbitration" as far as I know. Throughout the process Sandifer has been in the minority in regards to views on the future direction of the article. The progression of this issue is as follows:
- Without discussing any issues, Phil Sandifer adds NPOV tags to the article
- When asked to provide specific reasons for adding these tags, he refuses
- Phil Sandifer declares himself "baffled" that he is being accused of adding tags without discussion
- He is asked that "if you have a problem with a specific citation just point it out, and give us a specific reason why. "
- Sandifer declines
- Sandifer is asked again
- Sandifer relents and explains his opposition is based on the fact that the information is from local newspapers
- Sandifer starts to remove sources
- Sandifer says, "Who is Greg Palast, and why is his POV being reported?". Palast is a notable BBC journalist.
- Sandifer compares article to LaRouche and pseudoscience (see above)
Statement by tbeatty
I have been an editor of this article. Phil's statement and concerns are absolutely correct. Certain editors feel they "own" the article, notably RyanFreisling. There is not one, but two separate NPOV Dispute sections in the talk page. The editor/owners somehow dispute that there is a dispute about NPOV which is illogical on it's face. The article needs be rewritten (or merged and deleted into the 2004 election article). The NPOV tag serves as creating a flag for other editors to fix the POV issues with this article.
The outcome of the RfA should be to ban the offending editors from editing this article as their attempted "ownership" of it is disruptive. This will allow other editors to fix the POV issues without having to fight over small things such as tagging the article. --Tbeatty 17:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
- (This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/0/0/0)
Request to reopen hearing 'Rex071404_4'
Request for reopening of closed Rex071404_4 RfAr , for violation of remedies therein.
Involved parties
Rex071404 (talk · contribs) (a/k/a Merecat (talk · contribs), Anon Texan (talk · contribs), 70.84.56.166 (talk · contribs)
Prior petitioners:
- Mr. Tibbs (talk · contribs)
- JamesMLane (talk · contribs)
- Woohookitty (talk · contribs)
- Derex (talk · contribs)
- Jtdirl (talk · contribs)
- Szyslak (talk · contribs)
- Kizzle (talk · contribs) (involved but not submitting evidence)
- Dmcdevit (talk · contribs)
ArbCom members who accepted the original case:
- Kelly Martin (talk · contribs)
- The Epopt (talk · contribs)
- Mindspillage (talk · contribs)
- Jayjg (talk · contribs)
- Fred Bauder (talk · contribs)
RyanFreisling (talk · contribs) (requesting reopening)
Additional petitioners:
- Kevin Baas (talk · contribs)
Brief summary
- As Rex071404 (talk · contribs) (a/k/a Merecat (talk · contribs), Anon Texan (talk · contribs), 70.84.56.166 (talk · contribs)) this editor has been banned from editing John Kerry. In the recent sockpuppet guise of 'Merecat' (, , ) he has violated ArbCom's ban by making 20 separate edits to the article. , (URL to diffs is below). In addition Merecat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has engaged in, and received numerous blocks for) disruptive editing across a number of politically charged articles, and has been the subject of an RfC. Accordingly, I request that the prior hearing be reopened in light of these new, more egregious violations (using sockpuppets to circumvent a permanent ban in particular, and disruptive editing), and appropriate remedies applied.
- Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
- 4 prior ArbCom hearings, most notably this one . One RfC .
Statement by party 1
User:Rex071404 has violated his ArbComm permanent ban on article John Kerry.
In direct violation of a prior permanent ban on editing the John Kerry article, Rex071404 (talk · contribs), the subject of 4 prior RfA's, has taken on the sockpuppet (, , ) Merecat (talk · contribs), and in that guise, has willingly violated the ban.
None of his edits to the John Kerry article are disruptive. However, according to the enforcement term of the hearing, Rex has violated the term that permanently banned him from editing the article.
Merecat's edits to the John Kerry article are available here .
The Checkuser report for Merecat / Anon Texan / 70.84.56.166 / Rex is here: .
In addition, there are numerous examples of trollish techniques (shifting arguments, personal attacks, rhetorical devices, aggressiveness, parrotting, vote stacking, undiscussed article moves, ignoring or deleting talk page requests, deleting other users' comments from article and user talk pages, revert warring, accusations against others of vandalism, 3RR violations, anon avoidance of blocks, etc.) displayed in his edit history that violate the remedy in that same RfAr allowing additional blocks for disruptive editing on other articles. I will provide diffs for that conduct if appropriate, but that conduct is not central to this specific issue.
In light of this specific violation of specific RfAr remedies, I request that his prior ArbCom hearing be reopened, and his behavior assessed against the history, decisions and remedies made there by the ArbCom.
Update: Note that Merecat chose not to directly respond to my question about the likelihood / reasonable conclusion that he is Rex, but instead asked me to use an alternate page and to 'be more specific'. I see this behavior as atypical of one wrongly accused of being a sock of a blocked/banned user. He appears to not wish to respond to this RfAr request. In addition, given Tbeatty's comments below representing the POV that none of Merecat's edits were disruptive, I guess I'll have to go further and gather all the specific examples of disruptive behavior as mentioned above for addition to this RfAr.
The articles that Merecat disrupted have suffered as a direct result of his behavior. And now there's no reasonable doubt that he is Rex - a well-known troll - deliberately evading his prior ArbComm remedies. Such conduct is wrong whatever the political POV of the miscreant - and I did not participate in the prior RfAr's. To cause this much disruption is really wrong and really shouldn't be tolerated by a responsible community.
I ask that it be considered that 4 or more ArbCom hearings may in fact be more than enough time and effort already taken from the work of the encyclopedia to address the proven bad faith of one troll, and that enough is in fact enough. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 02:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by party 2
- (Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)
Statement by Tbeatty (talk · contribs)
Since it's stipulated that none of the edits are disruptive, isn't it proof that Merecat was acting in Good Faith and therefore contributing positiviely to the project. Regardless of whether the "Merecat" account was a sock puppet or not, he has positively contributed to Misplaced Pages for at least 5 months, and in the end isn't this what matters? Ryan's account of Merecat's "violations" are already outlined on an RfC and as far as I can tell the RfC would end in Merecat's favor. Ryan has attempted to stifle dissent to his POV by endlessly attacking this user and using the processes of Misplaced Pages to essentially prevent people from contributing. Merecat's only violations was of recruiting users to vote on an AfD. He should be blocked for 24 hours. If he is indeed a sock puppet of Rex, his sock puppet should be disabled and he should be warned about using sock puppets. Further, Ryan should be banned from bringing any further ArbCom or RfC actions against Merecat and vice versa. THis is a waste of time for everyone involved. Spending time trying to ban a user who is not disruptive is against the principles of wikipedia. This request should be closed with prejudice.--Tbeatty 01:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Here are stats on the account being accused of being a "sockpuppet" and a "troll":
Username | Merecat | |
---|---|---|
Total edits | 2302 | |
Image uploads | 4 (4 cur, 0 old) | |
Distinct pages edited | 323 | |
Edits/page (avg) | 7.13 | |
First edit | 2005-04-13 01:55:13 | |
And here's rex's stats (accused of being a 'known troll'). Simply amazing.
Username | Rex071404 | |
---|---|---|
Total edits | 6978 | |
Image uploads | 11 (8 cur, 3 old) | |
Distinct pages edited | 488 | |
Edits/page (avg) | 14.30 | |
First edit | 2004-07-21 19:16:46 | |
I have also read with interest those persons arguing for a permanent ban for an infraction (editing the John Kerry page) the ArbCom committee has already concluded should only be for a week. --Tbeatty 03:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Thatcher131 (talk · contribs)
I am conflicted about this RFAR. I believe Merecat (talk · contribs) has been ganged up on by a group of editors who do not like the fact that he has been editing articles like Rationales to impeach George W. Bush and Movement to impeach George W. Bush from a Republican POV, trying to steer the articles to some sense of neutrality. The RFA filed by Prometheuspan (talk · contribs) and the RFC filed by Nescio (talk · contribs) are examples of this behavior; in the RFC, the overwhemling majority of outside views either support Merecat or place the blame for the conflict equally on Merecat and his opponents. However, the revelation that he was posting from anonymous IPs to avoid a block for disruption, and was likely both the "Anon Texan" and Rex071404 (talk · contribs) are deeply troubling. I urge Arbcom to examine the entire situation, including edit warring, disruptive behavior and personal attacks made by all the parties.
A brief history.
I became aware while editing Killian documents that an anonymous user who was obviously a Republican was making edits from a number of IP addresses that resolve to two Texas ISPs, Everyone's Internet and The Planet. Stbalbach at first identified these edits as coming from the banned user Shran, but we realized the the Anon Texan (for lack of a better name) was a different user. See User:Stbalbach/anontexan for a list of IP addresses. From my experience the Anon Texan was aggressive in eliminating anti-Republican bias, and made edits without respecting consensus, but his edits were not overtly pro-Republican, and a case can be made that when most of the editors working on a highly political article share the same POV, respecting consensus will not eliminate that POV. At the same time, Merecat was involved in editing other political articles including Movement to impeach George W. Bush. I did not edit those articles but I gather his behavior was similar; aggressive removal of what he saw as anti-Bush bias. This resulted in the filing of the aforementioned RFC and RFAR.
On May 2, Rationales to impeach was nominated for Afd (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Rationales to impeach George W. Bush (2nd nomination)). Merecat, Morton devonshire (talk · contribs) and Nescio all sent out messages to users who had edited the article or voted in the first AfD, urging them to vote in the second ("talk page spamming"). The Afd was marred by blanking of votes and other disruptions (including personal attacks by Prometheuspan) and was closed the next day by Cyde (talk · contribs) acting out of process. The closure was overturned at DRV and the article listed a 3rd time. Nescio, Morton Devonshire and Merecat were all blocked for 24 hours for "vote stacking" but since this is an unwritten policy and none of them was warned first, the block on Nescio and Morton was oveturned by another admin. Merecat's block was left in place, possibly because he was blocked by a different admin, who other admins were less willing to overturn, but it is also true that Merecat began sending out talk messages for the 3rd Afd while Morton D and Nescio did not.
During Merecat's block, two of the IPs previously used by the anon Texan resumed talk page spamming regarding the third AfD, and another Texas IP posted a complaint about Merecat's block to the admin who had unblocked the other two editors. So Merecat basically outed himself as the Anon Texan. A checkuser request was made and Mackensen confirmed that Merecat was evading his block and was also likely to be Rex071404. RyanFreisling (talk · contribs), who has been involved in diputes with Merecat over a number of political articles, began posting requests at WP:ANI and this RFAR to have Merecat/Rex071404 permanently banned from wikipedia for violating his ban against editing John Kerry, even though he acknowledges that Merecat's edits to John Kerry have not been disruptive, and that the Arbcom remedy should Rex resume editing John Kerry was stated to be a week's block.
I hope this summary is useful and I urge the Arbcom to accept the case to examine the behavior of all the involved parties. Thatcher131 02:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Woohookitty (talk · contribs)
I was one of the prior petitioners in this case. I don't really want to become involved in this again outside of this statement. To me, it's pretty simple. If it can be proven that Merecat is Rex, then he should be blocked because he's in violation of his arbcom decision. "Positively contributed for 5 months" isn't really an issue. Letting someone get around a block should and cannot be tolerated. --Woohookitty 03:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Nescio (talk · contribs)
Although only involved in discussions (monologues by him is a better word) with Merecat (talk · contribs) I feel the need to respond to Tbeatty and Thatcher131. Tbeatty points out that the RFC on Merecat is not entirely supported. This is true, but what he does not say is the reason. As is the case in his statement here, on the RFC editors misrepresent the facts or simply ignore what Merecat has done. For details and evidence of Merecat's behaviour see his RFC. Above Thatcher131 states that "Merecat, Morton devonshire (talk · contribs) and Nescio all sent out messages to users who had edited the article or voted in the first AfD, urging them to vote in the second ("talk page spamming")." This fails to mention that I responded (which was of course stupid of me) to the clear attempt at disrupting this 2nd AFD by two editors with opposing views. Nuance changes the message he is sending out. Then "Nescio, Morton Devonshire and Merecat were all blocked for 24 hours for "vote stacking" but since this is an unwritten policy and none of them was warned first, the block on Nescio and Morton was oveturned by another admin." Again, this is incorrect. Merecat was not blocked for what Morton and I did, related to the 2n AFD. His block was the result of him again starting the recruitment procedure in the 3rd AFD for which he must have noticed the mess that had been created, and the blocks following the 2nd AFD. That is why his block started later, and while the block on Morton and myself was lifted, the block for a different reason, on Merecat was continued.
This technique of leaving out details, or overtly misrepresenting the facts, is exactly what is wrong with the RFC on Merecat. In stead of addressing the presented case people respond by pointing fingers, as can be seen in Thatcher131's response here. Even if Merecat is guilty of what the RFC says, he argues that others are guilty too (paraphrasing what I think Thatcher131 is saying). By that logic no RFC, or RfAr can be filed since this argument of those without sin throwing the first stone applies always. Simply stated, the number of people commenting on my behaviour, but not on Merecat(!), while they have never discussed with me, or even took part in the disruptive behaviour by Merecat is worrysome.
Further, it is evident that whatever the intentions, if any editor violates policy, rulings, et cetera, his actions and not his intentions should be discussed. Just as in the RFC on Merecat, the logic presented here is that even if editors are violating ArbComm rulings we should ignore that because he is a good fellow and edits in the best of intentions. Clearly, having an ArbComm has become pointless if we adopt that rationale. Aside from that, I do not understand how using sock-puppets in this disruptive manner can be considered a good faith edit, and a positive contribution to Misplaced Pages.
Last, the suggestion, by Thatcher131, to investigate all participants on Merecat's RFC, and the relevant AFD's, is highly incendiary. Having seen the havoc in both AFD's mentioned above, for which the sockpuppetery was used, trying to spread the mess by implicating as much editors as possible in this debacle is not a very good example of WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF. Nomen Nescio 09:49, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by mailer_diablo (talk · contribs)
I am not involved in the prior disputes, but I am the one who restarted the 2nd AfD (current) and made the checkuser request.
There's current AfD is in a whole lot of mass due to User:70.84.56.166 and User:67.15.76.187 mass-stacking user talkpages. The pattern of edits and the alleged sockpuppet tags on 70.84.56.166 and its "puppetmasters" were very fishy (in particular two users BigDaddy777 and Rex071404), hence me running through the checkuser process.
There is also a large amount of disagreement on whether merecat's actions are simply "notification of editors on important issues", or to try and "swing the consensus through vote-stacking", as we can see from the incident of Cyde's early closure that is recorded at admin's noticeboard. I would be very interested to hear how the ArbCom judges his actions on this, because I certainly think this constitutes the disruption of the AfD process.
I urge the ArbCom to accept this case mainly to :
- Confirm if Merecat is indeed the re-incarnation of Rex071404/BigDaddy777
- If (1) concludes to be otherwise, to determine if Merecat's actions (esp. on the AfD) require any form of remedies.
- Mailer Diablo 13:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Mr. Tibbs
In Rex071404's last arbitration case, I was the one who presented the majority of the evidence. As such I am very familiar with Rex's modus operandi. And I feel there is no doubt that Merecat is indeed a sockpuppet of Rex071404.
For example:
Creating obscure User pages for the sole purpose of "dialoguing" with a specific person is an extremely unusual behavior. But both Rex071404 and Merecat have done this.
Another example:
Compare the argument style of Rex071404 on the John Kerry talk page with the argument style of Merecat on the 2003 Invasion of Iraq talk page. Both make an entire new section and fill it with "rebuttals" of their opponents. Notice the long, winding writing style. Both writers very clearly love to hear themselves talk and seem to want to wear down their opponents by sheer volume of text.
Yet Another example:
Creating "hidden" UserTalk pages is an extremely unusual behavior. But Both Rex071404 and Merecat have done this. ((Added as afterthought -- Mr. Tibbs 21:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)))
I could continue presenting evidence, but frankly, I shouldn't have to. The identical behavior patterns and CheckUser results are more than enough to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Merecat is in fact Rex071404. Consequently, there is no need for an entire arbitration case regarding this issue. Merecat should be indefinitely banned for attempting to evade previous ArbCom rulings, and any user in the future who's CheckUser turns out to be Rex071404 should be indefinitely banned as well.
-- Mr. Tibbs 21:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Prometheuspan 18:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
To claim that Merecat was ever working for neutrality is in my opinion a bald faced lie. Merecat was full of ad hominems, straw man arguments, and abusive behavior towards Nescio, and the failure of Misplaced Pages to adress the seriously abusive behavior on the part of merecat is in fact what convinced me to become involved in the first place. Merecats abusiveness against me personally is a subject of the arbcom i filed, which was previusly mentioned. (though fallaciously invalidated.) Merecat was an obstructionist pov warrior, who cheated, lied, gamed the system, was abusive, deleted materials without due cause or justification, deleted materials solely for the purpose of strengthening his arguments from the discussion pages, stacked votes in vfds, stacked votes for rfcs, and etc. Merecat is patently and obviously acting in bad faith, which was evident to me (and should be evident to anybody) reading the rationales to impeach discussion page and its archives. This user should be banned permanently, and any socks discovered should be banned also. Prometheuspan 18:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Kevin Baas 17:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I think any remedy should carefully consider the question: "How can a repeat of this be prevented?" That is, "How can the remedy be well enforced?" Kevin Baas 17:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
(Note: I know I'm involved in a dispute elsewhere with some of the participants here - if anyone feels like I should recuse as a clerk, please do feel free and I'll move this to a straight statement. That said, I remind that I also was one of the first admins to block Rex, and I believe my block of him was my first ever block, so I'd say I break impartial. YMMV, please feel free to object)
Summary: Merecat appears to be Rex. Merecat has edited articles Rex is banned from, though not particularly disruptively. Merecat is, however, being trollish and disruptive.
Comment: If Merecat is a sock of Rex, he can be shot without arbcom ruling. If the Rex ruling needs to be extended to a ban, that seems to me a straightforward motion in prior cases. In either eventuality, I suspect much sanity can be preserved without this going through to a full case, since it looks like a massive train wreck of a case based on the number of comments already submitted. Phil Sandifer 05:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/0/1/0)
- Accept, but want to see some proof Fred Bauder 23:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Recuse. Neutrality 03:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
SPUI vs JohnnyBGood, PHenry and Rschen7754 and various other editors
Involved parties
- SPUI vs JohnnyBGood, PHenry, Rschen7754 and various other editors
- Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
- Various solutions tried
Mediation (1 month ago), various discussions on AN and an RfC in addition to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject California State Highways.
- Brief summary of dispute
In short, this dispute involves move warring over the naming of various state roads. Various attempts to mediate has not been suscessful and SPUI has refused an offer I have made for third party binding arbitration due to the fact that he insists he is right "I'm very leery of binding arbitration, as I know I'm correct. Thus I'll have to say no. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 19:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)." In the past, SPUI has made changes to the naming of the pages, and JohnnyBGood has reverted them pending lack of consensus. I attempted to offer mediation but various users have stated that after previous attempts it is almost pointless and ArbCom is the only way to settle this dispute -- Tawker 00:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I am not filing a statement in this party as I am not in dispute, I am only trying to find a solution here and it has come down to this. -- Tawker 00:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by party 1
I guess I'm party 1? I have move warred. Maybe I shouldn't have. But nothing else was working. My arguments were clearly detailed at Talk:State Route 2 (California). I still don't understand the arguments of the other side. Maybe it would have gone better if I did, but I really don't. The majority of people I've talked to, or that have commented out of the blue, agree with my names, but there are several editors that keep moving them back to "California State Route X", even claiming that that is somehow not only the correct disambiguation method, but also the correct name in real life. But that's all a content dispute, and outside the ArbCom's mandate. Which is why this will probably not result in a solution any more than the previous attempts.
For a specific example: State Route 66 (California). I was working on U.S. Route 66-related stuff, and saw that U.S. Route 66 in California was a double redirect - JohnnyBGood never cleans them up. I had two choices - either fix the double redirects to what I knew to be the wrong name, or move it back. I chose the option that I knew would make the encyclopedia better.
Another example, this time by Rschen7754 - .
Again, this is all content dispute stuff. So whatever. I move warred, because nothing else was working, and I knew I had consensus from real life and disambiguation conventions. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 01:34, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by party 2
A few months ago, SPUI moved the Massachusetts, Florida, New Jersey, and other pages to what he considers to be the proper disambiguation standard: "State Route/Road/Highway x (State)". He was not opposed there. A few months ago, SPUI removed the {{routeboxca2}} infobox from California State Route 15. He then proceeded to move the page to State Route 15 (California). He was reverted. He reverted back. He ignored discussions. He then proceeded to move all of the California State Route pages (over 200), and reverted after he was reverted, with no consensus for his position at WP:NC/NH. He then tried to massively redo {{routeboxca2}}. He was reverted. He tried to TFD {{routeboxca2}}. No consensus for deletion. He created his own {{Infobox CA Route}} and changed many articles to it. He was reverted. He reverted back. He spread this dispute to other states such as Washington and Rhode Island. He was reverted. He reverted back. In short, all 2,500+ articles are subject to become part of this edit war. Something must be done.
This is not a personal attack against SPUI by the way. He is a good contributor. We just don't approve of his methods sometimes. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by User:PHenry
I regret that this unbelievably stupid dispute has come to this, but I think it's been inevitable for a long time and I am certain that it will continue until some kind of binding decision is made. During the course of this unpleasantness, I have found that every participant on either side that I've tried to communicate with has been interested in working toward a mutual common-sense solution with the sole exception of SPUI. If he were not involved, I have no doubt whatsoever that any dispute would have been settled quickly a long time ago. Unfortunately, SPUI doesn't "do" discussion—his preferred method of operation is to wear more-reasonable editors down through warring, hostility, and abusive behavior, until they give up and he gets his way.
I honestly don't care that much about which naming standard is settled upon. I have been a reluctant participant in these edit wars because I believe very strongly that one user should not be allowed to steamroll over everyone else simply because he's willing to be more obnoxious than everyone else. My opinions and contributions are valid, goddammit, and so are Rschen7754's and JohnnyBGood's and Atamir's and yours and those of every other good-faith editor on Misplaced Pages. And SPUI, who is generally a very valuable contributor, is not more valid than anyone else, and certainly does not have a license to disregard the process of consensus building through polite discussion and negotiation without which Misplaced Pages cannot survive. I've revert-warred with SPUI in defense of a position that I didn't even agree with, because the matter had gone through a deletion debate that his (and my) position lost, yet he refused to accept it. That's how strongly I feel about the necessity of respecting other people's input and contributions.
I urge—no, I beg the ArbCom to take this matter up, while apologizing for my part in dragging you into what our children's children will remember as one of the lamest edit wars ever. Under normal circumstances, there would be no need for a formally binding decision to be made here, but as SPUI made clear to me, he doesn't intend to stop warring, ever, not until he gets his way. This attitude needs to be stopped here and now. --phh (/c) 03:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Locke Cole
I've been somewhat involved with this (and am a little dismayed that I was not informed this had been moved to arbitration). Specifically, I was involved in part of the California dispute, and also involved in the Washington State dispute. SPUI's behavior is, I think, understandable. Relatively new administrators such as Rschen7754 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) had been trying to enforce a "rule" they believe they created on WP:AN/I (the rule stating that there are to be no page moves of highway related articles). Rschen7754, who was involved in a dispute with me at the time, blocked me and refused to unblock me unless I promised to not move pages away from his preferred naming. I believe this behavior is, in part, why SPUI may have given up on discussion (not to mention the lack of interest by the opposing parties to listen to what he has to say).
To quote the Blocking policy, specifically, "When blocking may not be used", it states: Use of blocks to gain an advantage in a content dispute is strictly prohibited. That is, sysops must not block editors with whom they are currently engaged in a content dispute.
- 2006-03-31 05:03:31 – Rschen7754 demonstrates his involvement in the content dispute.
- 2006-03-31 06:24:30 – Rschen7754 reverts List of Washington State Routes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) to his preferred names with the edit summary rv to version that does not link to 100 redirects.
- 2006-03-31 06:33:30 – Rschen7754 threatens me with a block for moving (renaming) pages to names he doesn't prefer, citing WP:ANI as "stating" that "any mass moves of highway pages are grounds for being blocked". He finishes with: "Move any more pages and you will be blocked."
- 2006-03-31 06:45:07 – Rschen7754 blocks me with the reason per WP:ANI- user was mass moving road pages with no consensus, was warned explicitly.
- 2006-03-31 06:47:21 – Rschen7754 leaves a note saying he blocked me claiming it is unbiased.
- 2006-03-31 06:58:21 – Rschen7754 offers to unblock if I promise not to move pages away from his preferred names "until this is resolved".
I urge the ArbCom to accept this case to look at the abuse of sysop powers by Rschen7754 and how this may have affected peoples interest in opposing his point of view. As per Raul654's suggestion below, having a binding decision on the content dispute might also prove useful, but I believe there's a deeper problem that needs to be addressed. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Comment by JohnnyBGood
Just a thought, why don't we keep this confined to the naming dispute. If you have an issue with any actions of Rschen let's keep it seperate as all parties involved in this dispute have done things that violate policy in some form or another and bringing one in will lead them all to be dumped here, which will just cloud the core issue that needs to be resolved here. JohnnyBGood t c 20:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- While there may or may not be other policy violations, I'm concerned with the chilling effect Rschen7754's actions may have had on people who may have spoken up in favor of SPUI or been more open to changing their mind. The landscape of any dispute changes drastically when someone abuses sysop powers like this. I don't believe any other policy violations rise to this level in this dispute, and I believe this dispute may have been shaped differently had Rschen7754 not abused his powers. (Rschen7754 has also blocked SPUI, for the record). —Locke Cole • t • c 23:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well by the same token I could bring up how chilling and outright disturbing it is that SPUI, even when rightly blocked has been getting himself unblocked in under 15 minutes because he seems to have so many people with admin powers in his back pocket. I count no less then 6 times he was unblocked prematurely without acceptable cause in the first 7 listed here. Now THAT is chilling, especially when other users, myself included, who are blocked for the same infractions are either unable to get them lifted or it takes hours or days, rather then minutes as it does for SPUI. If Rschen is to be sanctioned then all of those admins who seem to be helping SPUI by wheel warring habitually should suffer the same fate as they also seem to have a conflict of interest. JohnnyBGood t c 17:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Response
First off please link to the page that provides the ruling: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive84. Secondly, you were blocked for a whopping 15 minutes. Thirdly, JohnnyBGood is right. None is circumspect here, probably. Take this to RFC or somewhere else if you're upset over a fifteen-minute block. Fourthly, I am not a person who intimidates people. Rather, the reverse. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Proposal by Raul654
I have an idea - would it be acceptable to both parties if, instead of accepting this case, we (the committee) simply offered binding decision as to the naming dispute? That is to say, both SPUI and JohnnyBGood give us a BRIEF explination for why their naming scheme is the correct one and the other guy's is not, and we come down in favor of one or the other. Raul654 01:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- That was in short what I was thinking ArbCom would do in this case. Placing sanctions on any of the parties involved does not make much sense, I offered to do this in a non formal non ArbCom situation and it was rejected, hence it came here. I don't think a conduct case makes much sense here and would be a waste of ArbCom's time, I just want some way of stopping the move warring so we don't have to go through it all again -- Tawker 02:29, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- As much as I'd assume the ArbCom is smart and would pick the correct naming, I don't like the possibility of the wrong one being chosen. That's probably one reason the ArbCom doesn't get involved in content disputes - it would have to apply to all editors to be worth anything. Thus, even if the four of us, or everyone currently in this dispute, agreed to make it binding, that's not going to keep someone in the future from moving them. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 01:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- "I don't like the possibility of the wrong one being chosen." I think that pretty much says it all, honestly. --phh (/c) 03:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- We avoid content disputes (emphasis on the word content) because we are not a panel of experts. That is to say, we lack the expertise to determine if a given sentence or paragraph is true, false, mistated, 'etc. On the other hand, it does not take a panel of experts to decide what the naming scheme should be. Raul654 18:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
- This seems reasonable, and I think SPUI could do a good job at explaining the situation. Though, like SPUI, I also have reservations about the binding nature of any decision like this. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- I would be amenable to either approach, and offer to help JohnnyBGood create his explanation if he likes. --phh (/c) 15:57, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with either approach. JohnnyBGood t c 18:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yup. I think that someone else should give the argument though. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
- Who would you suggest? --phh (/c) 02:09, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- Could we have a temporary ban on moving state highway pages until this is resolved? (For all parties involved) --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
- As per an AN discussion (its somewhere in the archives) move warring is a blockable offence, no need for an official ArbCom ruling IMHO -- Tawker 20:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- I would agree, if SPUI and myself hadn't been unblocked repeatedly for move warring after only 15 minutes. I think in this case we need it clearly spelled out until this arbcom is complete.JohnnyBGood t c 17:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's what I thought too, until Locke Cole complained. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
- I would agree, if SPUI and myself hadn't been unblocked repeatedly for move warring after only 15 minutes. I think in this case we need it clearly spelled out until this arbcom is complete.JohnnyBGood t c 17:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
So what is going to happen? We need a solution since SPUI has shown signs of wanting to move the Utah pages. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
- (This area is reserved for notes by non-recused clerks.)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/0/0/0)
- Accept for the purpose of binding arbitration regarding the style issue Fred Bauder 21:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
User:Simonapro vs. User:Viritidas and User:InShaneee
Involved parties
User:Simonapro User:Viritidas User:InShaneee
- (Provide links to the user page of each party and to all accounts they have edited with. Briefly summarize case. No details.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Simonapro&redirect=no This is mytalk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Viriditas Viriditas mytalk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/User:InShaneee InShaneee mytalk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/Heaven%27s_Stairway (first dispute) http://en.wikipedia.org/Cannabis#Species (wikistalking)
- Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
- (Provide diffs showing where parties other than the initiating parties have been informed about the request for arbitration.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Viriditas#Arbitration_with_regards_to_User:_Simonapro http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:InShaneee#Arbitration_with_regards_to_User:_Simonapro
- Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
http://en.wikipedia.org/Heaven%27s_Stairway. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Simonapro&redirect=no
Statement by party 1
In the process of this dispute I have been called a troll twice by Viriditas. Once at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway#Ownership_of_Overgrow.com_web_site_in_dispute and the second time again after he apologised the first time at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway. However I would not be here if it was not for http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Simonapro at the bottom where even though a dipute is going on Viritidas is now wikistalking me on another article. See lower section on mytalk page "Avoid duplicate links on a page".
InShaneee has already banned me for 24 hours for editing my own talk page. He also says that I have no right to stop Viritidas from editing a discussion page and removing my posts on the discussion. He also says that I have no right to accuse Viriditas of stalking me. I believe that InShaneee is wrong. I have a right not be called a troll (I acknowledge that eventually InShanee agreed this was wrong the first time, but thinks the second one is good faith). I also have a right not to be called a troll by InShanee. I have never had problems like this in the past with anyone. I am working with the mediator on http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Heaven%27s_Stairway to move things forward for a better article. Being 'Civil' does not mean enduring repeated attacks and harrasement. I am working on other articles with other contributors and have NEVER experienced these kind of major distruptions to my overall enjoyment of wikipedia. :)
I also have a right not to be wikistalked. I also have a right to point out that my discussions should not be edited from a discussion page. I believe I am allowed to state my case without been banned for doing so. I just want the attacks and harrasement to stop. User:InShaneee has not been helpful and I believe neither parties are now acting in good faith. Good faith would be to recognize that you are already in a dispute and not to start another dispute with the same person over another wiki article. Banning me was not helpful and is one of the many reasons why I have had to come here. I have been told by Inshanne that even Requests for arbitration are considered attacks (insulting and threatening). I don't believe I should be abused and cornered and told to keep shut about it. I believe that my reason for coming here should be taken in 'good faith' and not as some kind of a ploy. I also shouldn't have to come here and do this. The bottom line is that I want the attacks and harrasement to stop. Thank you for your time.
Statement by User:InShaneee
- First of all, I don't have any stake in the dispute these other two users are in, nor do I plan to get involved with it in the least. My only involvement was to block User:Simonapro for repeated incivility, and then to continue to warn him when he now refuses to stop (which, incidentally, I intend to continue, if no one has any objections, since this user appears to be filing this RfA instead of showing any signs of attempting to work with other users civilly). Secondly, as the above links show, there has been no outside attempts at dispute resolutions whatsoever, and this is in fact a bad faith RfA, as I do believe Simon's talk page demonstrates. Not only that, but this has only happened in the last month, and even then over the course of a few comments, so I hardly thinks it's worthy of Arbitration. Thirdly, I'll summarize my comment on Simon's talk page for you to review here: Viriditas was a little uncivil in the past, but has now been working to improve his behavior. Simon, on the other hand, has done nothing but troll (primarily on Talk:Heaven's Stairway, reverting anyone he disagrees with, and insulting and threatening anyone who attempts to open a diolouge with him (this being the latest result of that). I certainly hope the abitrators agree that this is all just a scare tactic and that Simon needs to learn to be respectful to other users after this case is thrown out. --InShaneee 18:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
- (This area is reserved for notes by non-recused clerks.)
Statement by uninvolved user Stifle
This does not appear to have visited WP:RFC. I would recommend taking it there first. Stifle (talk) 00:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/2/0/0)
- Reject, arbitration is a last resort, please refer to mediation or RFC. Dmcdevit·t 06:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
- Accept Fred Bauder 21:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Reject, talk it through some more. Charles Matthews 19:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Requests for Clarification
Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process.
Lou franklin: "Ineffective editor"
This is a matter of curiosity rather than confusion, but what was meant by "this grossly ineffective request for arbitration"? Being the one who brought that request, I naturally wonder whom/what that bit was directed at. Sorry for this rather belated request (I could have asked this weeks ago if I'd been paying attention in class). --Sam Blanning 19:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- BTW, Lou stated on his talk page that he will "raise the red flag" about that article. Do you think this would eventually lead to additional sanctions and/or long-term blocks/bans? 16:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Crotalus horridus
The enforcement for Crotalus horridus conflicts with the enforcement provided in the userbox remedy. Presumably the enforcement applies only to Crotalus's probation should that be invoked. Or can admins choose whichever they prefer? (And, if they can, could 5 two-week blocks result in triggering the year-block even though the remedy would not have been invoked since it limits blocks to a week?) -Splash 16:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm, we (I?) didn't do that too well. The options are to remove the enforcement from Remedy 1 or to specify that the enforcement only applies to Remedies 2 and 3. I support the former. Sam Korn 17:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- <ping>. I guess it's not especially important since Ch appears to be abiding by it, but it's at least untidy to let it lie. -Splash 23:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman - Topical ban
- Aucaman has made the following query on my talk page. I've given him my interpretation but it occurs to me that it would best be clarified by the arbitrators who voted on the motion in question. --Tony Sidaway 17:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Could you tell me how this is going to work? I have these specific questions:
- How am I supposed to know which articles I can edit? Some articles under question: Kurds, Kurdistan, Middle East, Najis, Geber, al-Khwarizmi.
- Those articles I cannot edit, can I still edit the talk page and participate in any (possible) mediation?
You can answer these questions directly or refer me to some literature/examples that illustrate how these bans work. Thanks, Aucaman 05:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
- Whether an article is related to Iran or Persians is to be decided by administrators, who have instructions that "relatedness is to be interpreted broadly so as to prevent gaming." Of the articles you list above, I'd say you can probably only edit Middle East without breaching the ban, and then only if you avoid the subject of Iran and Persians.
- You can still use the talk pages, participate in mediation, etc. -Tony Sidaway 11:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Motions in prior cases
Guanaco, MarkSweep, et al
Since the conclusion of the Arbitration case, StrangerInParadise (talk · contribs) has continued to assume bad faith and make disruptive edits with the StrangerInParadise account while maintaining a separate, older, user account. Thus, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Guanaco, MarkSweep, et al is modified to include the following remedy:
StrangerInParadise restricted to one user account
StrangerInParadise is restricted to one user account. Any sockpuppet accounts will be blocked indefinitely and the main account blocked for up to 48 hours if this is violated.
- Support:
- Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Fred Bauder 14:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- ➥the Epopt 14:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- James F. (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Charles Matthews 15:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
- Jayjg 01:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose:
- Abstain:
Archives
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Completed requests
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests (unofficial)