Misplaced Pages

I don't think I can support that, Floquenbeam. I have very serious concerns about this person's attitude. Unless I see an acknowledgement that his swaggering arrogance and contempt towards O'Dea and his block of O'Dea were unacceptable here, we should relieve him of the bit. As it stands, I can't trust him to deal fairly with borderline spammers and vandals. I don't trust his judgement at all, and it amazes me you're willing to. Can I recommend taking a look at his three RfA's? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:52, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Well I am just giving my opinion, Anthony, I'm certainly not telling you what to do or what to think, i hope I haven't given that impression. Yes, I just finished looking at the three RFA's (including, in RFA #2, a promise to be open to recall if that RFA passed. but it didn't). Yes, I would have opposed all three. Yes, this incident gives me great pause, and if there was a reconfirmation RFA today with no agreement to stay away from this kind of block, I'd oppose. But there is a lot of good work he's done over the years, including good admin work, and I'm hoping some kind of trajectory other than the SchuminWeb or EncycloPetey cases can be worked out, so that we (Hex, and Misplaced Pages) don't mutually burn all our bridges. This does appear to be the only area I see problems in; if I could convince myself he won't do that one particular thing anymore, then I would consider his adminhoodness a net positive, and move on to find other more pressing problems more in need of solving. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:03, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Is there a page somewhere that lists the blocks he's made? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 03:09, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Try this -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 03:13, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Or, more elegantly as a wikilink: Special:Log/block/Hex. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes, that's prettier (I just looked at my own and then changed the URL) ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 03:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The following types of usernames are not permitted because they are considered promotional: Usernames that unambiguously consist of a name of a company, group, institution or product (e.g. AlexTownWidgets, MyWidgetsUSA.com, TrammelMuseumofArt). However usernames that contain such names are sometimes permissible; see under Usernames implying shared use below. usernames are acceptable if they contain a company or group name but are clearly intended to denote an individual person, such as 'Mark at WidgetsUSA', 'Jack Smith at the XY Foundation", 'WidgetFan87', 'LoveTrammelArt', etc.

Two inappropriate blocks in ten days. Hex, can you explain the rationale behind this block, and why you didn't discuss it with the editor first? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Given the username block and the 2008 block Flo references above I do think we need to hear from Hex or push this to ArbCom. NE Ent 14:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

My thanks to Floquenbeam, who is the only person to have had the common courtesy to alert me by email to the current status of this thread. I happen to be on vacation. My reply will be presented tomorrow. — Hex (❝?!❞) 20:55, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I alerted you on your talkpage when I un-archived the thread on 29 December 1 January. But if you're not interested enough to enable the "e-mail me when my talkpage is changed" functionality when you go on holiday with something like this pending, then naturally that's somebody else's fault (just like everything else). Bishonen | talk 21:35, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

Hex edited after Bish's notification so they should have seen the orange message bar. NE Ent 21:44, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This just keeps getting worse. KillerChihuahua 05:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Reply

I'll start by addressing the two blocks mentioned above.

1. At the time of the 2008 block I didn't fully understand about avoiding tools when involved in a content dispute. Subsequently, I did. You may also notice that I managed to accidentally pass 3RR on the same occasion. I've not done that since, either.
2. Looking at it again, the user name block was in fact incorrect. It should have been a spam-only block. Twehringer_thesociety (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)'s only contributions were to a spam article, The Society of Leadership and Success, an organization that they are the director of communications for. That article itself is, I now notice, a copy of the user space page User:NSLS92617/National Society of Leadership and Success, itself deleted as spam. That user name clearly alludes to the Irvine, California branch of this organization, and is a clear promotional name. I'll let somebody else deal with that. In this case, I evidently managed to conflate two block reasons — one of which I obviously misremembered. I'm not sure that I recollect ever making a user name-based block before, for that matter. I've now corrected the error on the user's talk page.

Now I'm going to have my say about what's been happening on this noticeboard. Whether you read it or not is up to you — if it's too long for you to bother with, that's fine with me.

Some of the participants here appear to think they're running a drumhead court martial. They're not. This is a kangaroo court; trial by auto-da-fé. It's certainly the first time that I've encountered somewhere that people are put into the stocks in the village square and then expected to account for themselves while being pelted with rotten fruit. Someone above uses the word bullying; what breathtaking hypocrisy. To pick another metaphor, shooting fish in a barrel is easy because the barrel is full of fish. This venue has managed to create the complete inverse by putting one fish in a barrel and surrounding it with gunmen.

I've been called out on mistakes before. When people have talked to me on a one-to-one basis — that's why user talk pages exist, in order for direct and efficient communication — I've always been more than happy to talk through and consider my actions. If the responding administrator had chosen to leave me a message (perhaps "I believe the block was bad and wrong because..., can you explain yourself and are you willing to lift it before I do?") then there would have been the almost complete certainty of a diametrically opposite conclusion to events in every respect. However, he chose the single most dramatic course (including instantaneously undoing the block with the marvelous comment "WTF?" - how indicative of a bona fide attempt to resolve an issue) and parachuting me into here.

With the exception of Floquenbeam emailing me, as I mentioned earlier, nobody has attempted to talk to me outside this obloquious vipers' nest. That does not include Anthonyhcole — the self-appointed Torquemada of this particular inquisition (who, incidentally, left me a talk page comment insulting me and calling other editors "morons" before deleting it a moment later — class act). Who is Anthonyhcole? Who knows. I'm not sure why someone that isn't an administrator would choose to hang around on what is ostensibly the administrators' noticeboard, unless they derive some sort of pleasure from having fights. It certainly isn't due to any formal role. Some people might respond to that kind of thing by digging through his record to try and have a mud-slinging match - much as he's decided it's somehow appropriate to present my RFAs as some kind of bizarre "evidence". I shan't descend to that level.

My penance is also apparently expected to contain replying to massive slabs of mistaken accusations based on conjection and assumption, long after the fact of my actions being undone and judged and my being given a public whipping. Even if I did, whatever I said can and probably will be challenged by every drive-by Joe McCarthy wannabe that feels like taking a pop because they're convinced they know the contents of my own mind better than I do. What a great use of time and effort. Not to mention the presence of people who apparently choose to latch onto discussions in this space in order to use them as a springboard for presenting their own personal conspiracy theories.

This environment appears to attract the officious in droves. Some are even so astonishingly self-important that they think, wrongly, that they can demand my immediate participation in this rotten caucus. Even after I've pointed out that I'm on vacation. And even threatening me with going to ArbCom if I fail to respond to their demands, in whatever pressing timescale they've conjured into existence. Presumably these threats of ArbCom involvement without prior formal dispute resolution are making the claim of the necessity of exception 1, "emergency action to remove administrator privileges"? That would presumably put me on a par with EncycloPetey, who Floquenbeam mentioned. I looked up the details of his desysopping, and frankly I reject the comparison.

I've only had the administrators' noticeboards on my watchlist for a few months, but have barely looked at them in that time. I now understand why I frequently see them referred to as "the drama boards". As of right now I'm joining the growing number of administrators that choose to ignore them. My talk page, as always, remains open. — Hex (❝?!❞) 19:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, that username you blocked was not a promotional username. Please read the quotebox just above. You got it wrong.

The kangaroo court above involves ten admins and ten editors in good standing. All we've been waiting for is an acknowledgement from you that your block and your treatment around the block of O'Dea was inappropriate. That's all.

I don't think you have the right temperament for adminship, I'm afraid. So I'm filing a request at RfA that they desysop you. I think this is such a clear case that it would be detrimental to the project to waste time on other processes. Perhaps ArbCom won't see it that way. We'll find out. I'll let you know when I've filed it. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 22:35, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

If I was one to block for personal attacks, which I'm not, you'd find yourself blocked now, Hex, for the way you speak to Anthonyhcole above. Do you take WP:AN to be some kind of free zone where you get to say the first thing that comes into your head no matter how shitty it is? Or where you can express any amount of rudeness, contempt and ABF to anybody as long as they're not an admin? Because I notice there's a bit of a difference in the way you address the different categories of users in this thread: you speak reasonably civilly to the admins — within shouting distance of civilly, anyway — or, well, you avoid attacking them individually, anyway — while there's apparently nothing you won't say to a non-admin, from TL;DR to Torquemada. Therefore, I'm also beginning to think we should let ArbCom look at this. They may not indeed want to remove your tools for basically one bad use of them; but they should get a chance to sanction you just as a user, for generally appalling battleground behaviour. Then you can call them Joe McCarthy wannabes and tell them they must derive some sort of pleasure from having fights. Bishonen | talk 22:40, 4 January 2013 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Request_to_desysop_Hex --Anthonyhcole (talk) 23:05, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

For the record, Twehringer thesociety is not a promotional name. It's a personal name. The person's name is Tracy Wehringer, and xyr electronic mail address, given on press releases by the organization concerned as a contact, is twehringer@…. It's rather sad to see a person who straightforwardly uses xyr own name and the organization that xe works for suffering for supposedly having a "promotional name". I hope that this doesn't apply to account names like Okeyes (WMF), too. Uncle G (talk) 23:46, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

N. R. Narayana Murthy topic ban

Page: N. R. Narayana Murthy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
User: Kkm010 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User: Tib42 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

1. 09:31, 24 December 2012 (edit summary: "restored (constant disruptive behavior)")
2. 04:34, 25 December 2012 (edit summary: "Undid revision 529644837 by Rtat (talk)")
3. 06:04, 25 December 2012 (edit summary: "do not change the top para since it was there from the very beginning")
4. 05:42, 26 December 2012 (edit summary: "Undid revision 529722850 by Tib42 (talk)")

Comments:
This is not a breach of 3RR but a battle that goes back further than the above diffs. I am involved. The main content dispute is over which awards to list in the article. User:Tib42 wishes to list more awards, and other editors, including Kkm010, wish to list fewer. It goes back a long ways. I've been involved in it (although no longer directly). User:Dennis Brown tried to mediate it. The last person who tried was User:Ryan Vesey. I left a message a couple of days ago on poor Ryan's talk page (it's a thankless job) to see if he has the time and is willing to get back into it; I don't think he's around right now. Meanwhile, Tib42 persists, and Kkm010's knee-jerk reaction is to revert. Kkm010 and a completely different editor seem to have worked out the secondary dispute, but I really don't understand why Kkm010 saw fit to revert twice before doing so.

Honestly, I don't know what the right "solution" is. Kkm010's recent history of reverting other editors is not a constructive one. An article ban for both Kkm010 and Tib42 might be a longer-term solution, but that can't be obtained here.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:33, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Guys its been discussed so many times but unfortunately user:Tib42 simply refusing to give up. From Dennis Brown to Bbb2 everybody tried their best to explain the matter to user:Tib42 still he seems to be so adamant that I have to keep an eye on this article. However, If any misconduct has been done by me I apologize for my behavior. As far as my point of view is concern too much "awards and honors" looks odd and disgusting. Great people won thousands of awards but that doesn't mean we have to list every single awards.--♥ Kkm010 ♥ ߷ _{♀ Contribs ♀} 15:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

In my defense, if you look at the talk page for the article you will see that I have explained my rationale for each award/honor. I have presented these arguments twice. I have also posted on Kkm010's page to discuss this on the talk page. I am happy to discuss this with Kkm010 and come to an understanding but he/she refuses to discuss this. Please note, Kkm010 has not articulated why he/she does not agree with the list of reasons provided on the talk page. Instead, he/she consistently undoes my changes and refuses to discuss these changes in any way. It is unclear to me why this person would object to honors from TIME magazine, Fortune, etc. whereas he/she does not uphold the same standard for other articles that Kkm010 actively edits (such as Ratan Tata, Dhirubhai Ambani, etc.). Why are not those awards 'odd and disgusting'? Why is an honor by TIME magazine ranking this individual's contributions with Mahatma Gandhi 'odd and disgusting;? It does not seem like Kkm010 is being objective here. This is unfair. As the records on the talk page will note, I have been constructive and I have tried to work with Bbb23 and Ryan and it only when they did not raise objections to my arguments that I saw fit to commit these changes. I did not do so unilaterally. Kkm010 has misrepresented the truth and the talk page for the article will show it. I did not get deeply involved in this discussion about honors and awards when Dennis looked at it back in June. There was another editor (AnimeshKulkarni) who was making the case for the honors/awards. It is only in the past few months that I have been involved and I have presented the case for every award. I am happy to elucidate further and make my case. ---- Tib42 (talk) 15:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

• As Bbb23 points out, I mediated a discussion trying to find resolution on this article. From my perspective, I see Tib42 as an SPA that has edited tendentiously but has gotten a little better at communicating. I think Kkm010 has generally tried to communicate, but recently become more combative in dealing with Tib42. I'm not aware of any other issues with Kkm010, I think they are just pushed to edge with Tib42's behavior, something I can actually empathize with after dealing with them for weeks. Of course, that doesn't excuse the behavior, but it does explain it. The problem is actually both of them, equally, for very different reasons. I do not think blocks will solve any underlying problem or prevent disruption in the long run, and may actually antagonize the situation. I would support a topic ban for both editors for this single article at WP:AN, and think that is the best solution for all involved, and ask that someone refer (or move) this case to that board. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:57, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
• Hi User:Dennis Brown, yes, I am very interested in this article because he is my hero. But so what? My interest in this person got my to wikipedia in the first place. Who is to say that motivation is wrong? In the due course of time I would like to edit articles for the few heroes I have. If you look at the talk page for the article I have articulated for each and every honor/award why I think it makes sense. If kkm010, you, or anybody else disagrees I am happy to discuss this further. But without even a response from any of you to my arguments, how can I be blamed for being tendentious? I would imagine if you responded to my arguments and I am being stubborn about it and not listening to reason only then would you call me tendentious. When pages like Hilary Clinton can list an exhaustive list of awards from very similar sources nobody seems to have an issue. But why in this case? I have come to understand that I must engage collaboratively and discuss these issue. I have tried to do this, as the records shall reflect. But I don't see a response from the other side except an irrational roll back. --- Tib42 (talk) 16:06, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Dennis Brown and Bbb23 you guys are far more experience than me or Tib42. You know that listing awards which are not notable looks odd. Great businessmen like Bill Gates or Steve job's article, editors haven't list awards the way the Murthy article been written. Anyway its upto you what's good for this article. I have already sated my point of view and hope that some justice shall be done to this article. If you guys want both Tib42 and me to block from editing this article you can go ahead, but make sure that the issue get resolved.--♥ Kkm010 ♥ ߷ _{♀ Contribs ♀} 04:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposal

I propose both Tib42 and Kkm010 be topic banned from the article N. R. Narayana Murthy or any article where Mr. Murthy is the subject matter for an indefinite period of time. This is a more effective way to prevent disruption by two editors that have not had problems outside this one article. For the record, I have mediated discussions on the content of this article but have not made substantial edits to the content. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support as proposer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support. Although it's been quite some time, I was more involved in the content dispute before Dennis's mediation attempts. I think Tib42 is sincere but is stubborn and repetitive in their arguments. Even though an award may be rejected as non-noteworthy, Tib42 persists, sometimes with a rehash of their old arguments, and sometimes with slightly new arguments. Once in a while they may even have a valid new argument, but it gets lost in the dizzying shuffle. Essentially, someone less partisan needs to be involved. I have less sympathy for Kkm010, whom I see as passive-aggressive/disruptive. They are inclined to battle but then back off when chided, but that initial tendency to battle is concerning. My recollection is they were difficult to deal with because of this behavior. Regardless, the article will hopefully be better of without either editor, and the resources spent by Dennis, Ryan, and me dealing with the issues are significant.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support. I was also hoping that this issue could be resolved with a regular and civil discussion at the talk page, but it turned into multiple disruptive revert-chains. I have also less sympathy for Kkm010, who was in my eyes not only aggressive to Tib42 but also recent to Rtat. See User_talk:Kkm010#Narayana_Murthy_2 and related article reverts. I'm not involved in the content dispute. I only requested twice a temporary page protection. SchreyP 00:18, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support I was hoping to see a more lowered solution, but if both Bbb23, Ryan and Dennis were unable to achieve this, I see that a topic ban is the only way to prevent this. Also, I'd add that the ban may not be lifted (or requested to be lifted) in at least six months. — ΛΧΣ 05:45, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose, and fairly strongly (long but please read) I suppose quite a bit of the blame lies on me because I keep attempting to start discussion, but it's a topic I'm not entirely interested in and I've been unable to complete discussion on. When I closed the first discussion, there was consensus to include 7 awards found at Talk:N. R. Narayana Murthy#Award list listed under Notable Awards. Unfortunately, Tib42 did not return during that discussion, so no consensus was made towards any of the "possibly notable awards". This means no consensus was made to include them, and while it was determined that consensus should be sought before adding any of the other awards, no consensus was made to exclude them. Tib42 has restored the material without going to the talk page. In two instances, I initiated talk page discussion and Tib42 engaged in discussion in each instance. There is a concern to the effect that Tib42 continues to use inherent notability arguments (i.e. someone important has received this award; therefore, it should be included). Nobody else has engaged in discussion. The difficulty I have had is that Tib42 is attempting to restore 10 awards at once. They have widely different degrees of significance and I have been unable to engage in discussion on all of the awards at the same time (my previous involvement had only been to close the first discussion and my only action on the article was to make the initial edit to make the awards section in line with the closed discussion). Now it is clear that despite the failure of all involved editors to come to a consensus on the talk page (through lack of discussion), there is clearly not consensus to include all of the awards that Tib42 wants to include or we wouldn't be here. But I still disagree with the notion that there is consensus to exclude all of the awards, I would be among the group that things some of them should be included. A better solution would be to bring this issue to a more structured mediation forum (possibly Misplaced Pages:Dispute Resolution) and/or discuss only one award at a time. Ryan Vesey 16:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• That is a lucid summary of the content dispute, but it doesn't really address the conduct issues. I have a few questions. First, what about a voluntary agreement by the two editors not to edit the article while mediation is ongoing at DRN? Second, and probably more important to the editors, what state do we leave the article in while that discussion is occurring? Normally, that shouldn't matter barring policy violations, but we should be clear as to what we're doing. Finally, what if there is no consensus at DRN? My overarching concern here is to prevent further disruption to the article, not necessarily to "resolve" the content issues.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• The article, or at least the awards section, certainly shouldn't be edited by either of them while the dispute is being resolved. That was in my mind, but I didn't type it out. I believe the article should be left in the state with fewer awards while the dispute is being resolved. If no consensus for anything can be found at DRN, then it would stay in it's current state. At this point, consensus needs to be found to add any material. Ryan Vesey 19:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support – No matter who is right about the underlying issue, the continued reverting is disruptive. I support the article ban on both parties. If one or both of them believe that a solution has been found, they can return to WP:AN and ask for the restriction to be lifted. I understand that this ban is only from the article, not the talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 19:09, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

  That is correct, the least amount of restriction that will do the job. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:16, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support, but non-indefinite. For Tib42: a SPA is not necessarily something I object to. If someone only cares about one battleship, say, and is incrementally helping it reach FA status, hey, more power to them. But when I compare the article from when Tib started and the present day, the net benefit of this article's "improvement" is outweighed by many orders of magnitude by the black hole sucking in editor hours. Has this situation been a net benefit for the encyclopedia? Let Tib42 focus on other things for a while, then get back to it. I really don't get Kkm010's motives here but through looking at situation it appears, in my opinion, like (s)he has long since passed WP:BOLDness into WP:OWNership and think a break is needed. Not indefinite, just a break for the both of them. Gears are locked, the admins hold the grease, please apply. PhnomPencil (✉) 21:53, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose I see evidence that Tib42 is tenacious, but I don't see disruption worthy of a ban. I hope Tib42 will accept Ryan's suggestion to review the awards one at a time, and reach a consensus. My cursory review is that many of these deserve to be in the article, but I'll try to opine one at a time. Unfortunately for those who think there are too many, my initial attempt to review one of them uncovered another one not on the list, which I will add.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• Hehe, not only opposing but adding another entry. Don't you have a party to go to? :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 16:46, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I know :). FWIW, I just weighed in with an oppose for one of the awards.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

• fine, if you guys want to do this,, go ahead. But don't do it in the name of fairness. I have abided by a consensus decision in the past on a cofounder issue for this article. Once you both decided on the final word, on the cofounder issue I abided by the decision. In this case nobody had presented an argument before for the awards and I presented it on a case by case basis. I also dropped awards that I realized there would be no consensus on. I have provided citations references and arguments for why. In response I still don't understand what you object to content wise. You have still not explained why you object to honors by Time magazine and it's ilk for this person but you have not don't so for peoplemlike Hilary Clinton or bill gates. The precedence that this decision sets is that we must all hold all biographies to the same standard and eliminate any credible list of awards. That is the message you are sending by leaving this article incomplete on this particular issue. Since there is no consensus or let alone a rational discussion, I am being bullied on this issue and I have choice but to accept. --- Tib42 (talk) 17:41, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
• Comment As it is a holiday for much of the English speaking world, leaving this discussion up for an extended period may be appropriate to allow a full discussion. It is a strong step, warranting more than a few comments before acting. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• I've restored this topic from the archive for further discussion and hopefully a consensus.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:08, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Tib, you are not being bullied. What's being discussed *right now* is your behavior in repeatedly edit-warring. This isn't a decision about the validity of the awards, and your argument about Clinton & Gates doesn't really apply. — The Hand That Feeds You: 15:54, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• This post is just to keep this from being archived again. The voting and discussion aren't really gaining much traction. This is the last time I'll do this.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Conversion therapy

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Could an uninvolved admin look at Talk:Conversion_therapy#WP:ARBPSEUDO? In short there is discussion to see if this article can be considered as part of the Arbcom decision and edits placed under 1rr restriction to limit the edit warring. Thank you. Insomesia (talk) 20:01, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

See also the still open discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Conversion therapy. Monty₈₄₅ 20:09, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't know that was going on. Insomesia (talk) 20:27, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:RM

What the heck is going on with this page's backlog? There are discussions from November that haven't been closed yet.—Ryulong (琉竜) 21:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

October even (one of mine). Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 21:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

No snark being slung at Ryulong for even suggesting something should be done about this? Guess being an admin (or at least not being TenPoundHammer) gets you more leeway when it comes to signposting excessive backlogs. 31.6.19.194 (talk) 08:23, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Hey look! This here edit above is 31.6.19.194's first and only edit? I wonder who he could be? It couldn't be an editor who comes here and demands that things be done, could it? Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:18, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not an admin?—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:05, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

A pertinent observation! Backlogs happen, this is the holidays -- perhaps the ping will help, but in end, it'll all get done eventually. Salvidrim! 09:48, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Shhh. What 31.6 clearly knows is that the first rule of the drama boards is to never let the truth get in the way of some good snark; applying this rule by alleging that other editors have prioritized snarkiness over constructiveness is just for bonus points. — Francophonie&Androphilie 17:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

The backlog at WP:RM has been horrendous for months. On October 24 it was "only" 20, and climbed to over 120, which is where it is now. There just have not been enough users closing them. It likely has been years since it was cleared. We did make it worse for ourselves by encouraging more page moves to use WP:RM instead of just moving the page. Technical moves though - non-controversial ones, gets cleared out every day. We just need someone to step up to the plate and commit to clear out the back log every week, if not every day. Apteva (talk) 02:33, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll try to see if there are some good candidates for NACs, but these require clear and unquestionable consensus, as well as the non-existence of the target page... so hardly a majority, I'd expect. Salvidrim! 03:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

It hasn't been years, but it is usually quite backed up. Every once in awhile it seems someone goes nuts there and closes them all. There is great rejoicing, and then a week later there is a huge backlog again. RM just doesn't get the attention it needs. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 07:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

• It's a bit of a drag. I just did three old ones, and it took me more than half an hour, including reading, closing, moving, a notification here and there. Drmies (talk) 04:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Admin attention to an RFC/U, please

I want to highlight this RFC/U for admins' attention: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Apteva.

In an attempt at strict compliance with closing instructions, a motion to close was drawn up on the talkpage: Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Apteva#Motion to close. The RFC has been open since 30 November 2012 (that's 33 days, as I write). Nothing important remains unconsidered, and the trickle of new contributions simply aligns with opinions that are already well exposed. The motion to close has revealed overwhelming consensus; the delay in implementing this consensus with a formal closure (and an accurately detailed summary of that consensus) perpetuates uncertainty on the Project (notably at WT:MOS).

Would an admin who is experienced in these processes please take care of it? I request an admin, specifically. The consensus is clear, but the details need to considered with care. Several comments mention an approach to ArbCom if the matter is not settled with finality.

Thank you!

Noetica 03:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, that RFC/U cannot be closed. You appear to be looking for option 3 under instructions which is a motion to close. However, you miss the general explanation over option 3 at the very top which says "The parties and/or participants to the dispute agree (via a motion on the talk page of that RfC/U)." Although you have a motion that has consensus, not all of the parties have agreed. So this cannot be closed yet. I might be reading this too strictly, I've only closed a handful of RFC/Us, but that's what I am seeing.--v/r - TP 13:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)--v/r - TP 13:22, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Tom that generally user conduct RFCs are not closed except by the subject user's consent. Generally, user conduct RFCs either fade away and are delisted or are escalated to Arbcom due to the subject user's refusal to consent to consensus. It's also worth noting that while it cannot serve as the sole basis for administrative sanctions, such as a block, a user conduct RFC can be indicative of behavior which could result in an administrator blocking the subject user. MBisanz 15:56, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

If Apteva doesn't accept that consensus there, or at least abide by the spirit of the ban by stopping the disruption (which he seems to be continuing as we speak), then I'm told that a good next step is to request a community ban here at WP:AN. Is there some suggested process for that? Dicklyon (talk) 21:46, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Of course there is the option of requesting a topic ban here at WP:AN. Remember? That's what happened with PMAnderson, though that ban was later trumped by more stringent sanctions.

I have reviewed the rather confusing provisions for closure of an RFC/U. Option 3 includes this text (my underlining):

However, where a summary is disputed, all participants must agree at the RfC/U talk page on which summary to use. This is because in the absence of a clear consensus one way or another, writing the closer's own view of the dispute as the summary/close has been considered controversial in the past.

Well and good. But in the present case, the summary at the first motion to close has vastly more acceptance than any other. So how could any other summary supplant it? And why would any radically different new summary be seriously proposed? Yet I see that Hasteur has attempted another, much weaker summary, and has sought to impose it as somehow superseding those already in place. (See Motion to close (5) at the talkpage, which until I refactored for conformity with the established structure purported to be in a special category, somehow standing above the preceding motions.)

Hasteur seems to have unusual views on the closing of these things: different from the guidelines, and different from views expressed above. I have asked Hasteur to give an explanation, here in this section.

Again, if things do not proceed according to the guidelines, it may be necessary for ArbCom to settle the matter. Let's hope it will not come to that.

Noetica 07:20, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This has already been at Neotarf (talk) 10:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

*COUGH* Noetica, since you seem to be out for blood please place yourself in the guillotine first.

1. You have failed to follow the instructions of this page. You must notify any user who is the subject of a discussion. It's a big yellow box.
2. The proper location to request closure of a RfC is at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure, a subsection at the very top of this page.
3. If you had shelved your bloodlust for sanctioning Apteva, you would have seen that the proposed closure I make is weaker only because that's a neutral summary that doesn't impose any next steps. RfC/U is not about making next steps, it's about informing the subject of a significant problem with their editing.
4. You'll see that I've "propose closed" contentious RfC/U's in the same manner before and been thanked for it .
5. Finally, your request here is what caused me to come look at the RfC/U again. Finessing the rules is how these lower closes can happen while at the same time leaving tracks for future disruptive behaviors to roll forward on.

I question if you, Noetica, might benefit from a vacation from the area around this RfC/U as you seem to be heavily invested (both mentally and emotionally) in seeking sanctions. Let it go. Hasteur (talk) 14:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Serious, guillotine? blood? I don't hear Noetica suggesting anything like that. He's just frustrated, as I have been for months, that there doesn't seem to be a way to get Apteva to stop the disruption. I thought that after a few months and warnings my request to AN/I would have been enough to get an admin to give him a firm warning with penalty of block for continued disruption, but it was ignored. Now that we've got a huge consensus that he needs to stop and avoid this area where everything he has tried to do has been firmly rejected as disruptive and against consensus, we're still nowhere in terms of a process to get him to stop. Can you help instead of trying to make Noetica the bad guy here? Dicklyon (talk) 19:05, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, Hasteur did say this: AN or RfArb, but first see if Apteva will take on board the viewpoints (Apteva hasn't. or at least has not agreed to stop what is being asked to stop). HaugenErik (talk) 22:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Hasteur, I answer your numbered points:

1. Do you mean Apteva? If so, that is explained at Apteva's talkpage. The discussion was not started about Apteva, but about the state of an RFC/U and how to close it according to settled procedures. If you mean I have failed to notify you, please note: You are not the subject of the discussion. The discussion is about how to proceed in a case that cries out for closure when there is already a very strong consensus established, and you have sought to act administratively in the case. Anyway, you were notified of this discussion, at the talkpage of the RFC/U.
2. A request for closure was indeed posted at the location you suggest. I sought action on that request, and that seems to be fair and normal. I also sought clarification of some very obscure closing instructions. Obviously people interpret them differently, so I feel perfectly justified in making this approach here.
3. The neutrality and utility of your attempt at an administrative summing-up are seriously questionable, in the face of a clear expression of opinion from a great majority of the participating editors. Your immoderate language against me does you no credit: "since you seem to be out for blood please place yourself in the guillotine first"; "if you had shelved your bloodlust for sanctioning Apteva". By itself, that is a good basis for action concerning your conduct. In particular, for a request or sanctions aimed at excluding you from intervening administratively in any RFC/U.
   I now formally ask you to withdraw that wording, which I say is inflammatory and abusive, and does not reflect the facts.
4. I know that you have been thanked for your actions in the past, and I don't doubt that they were well intended. I am concerned about the present very serious case, in which there is a plain consensus – one that your actions might possibly nullify, despite your good intentions here also.
5. My request here was specifically for an "admin who is experienced in these processes" to deal expeditiously with an important case where a clear consensus has emerged. It was specifically not for a non-admin. It is disappointing that you still intervened. No one is trying to "finesse the rules", except perhaps you (I regret having to say). I came here to get action, but also clarity about Byzantine rules that I am now convinced need re-drafting. (I might take some part in that, because I have experience with clear unambiguous drafting.)

Last, I note your condescending remarks about my taking a vacation. I could make similar remarks about you, with at least equal justification. I am a style specialist, with more edits at WP:MOS than any other editor (mostly to tidy things, and to guard against non-consensual or ill-documented changes), but believe me: I willingly absent myself from there for months at a time. Almost a year, in 2010. It is impertinent of you to make suggestions about my mental and emotional well-being, when I pursue the normal business of assisting to deal with disruption in a WP area that is my specialty. You have no idea what you are talking about.
I now formally ask you to withdraw that wording also.

♥

Noetica 23:10, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

@Noetica: You said

However, where a summary is disputed, all participants must agree at the RfC/U talk page on which summary to use. This is because in the absence of a clear consensus one way or another, writing the closer's own view of the dispute as the summary/close has been considered controversial in the past.

Well and good. But in the present case, the summary at the first motion to close has vastly more acceptance than any other. So how could any other summary supplant it?

You yourself quoted the most important aspect of closing an RFC/U. All participants, including the target of the RFC/U, must agree to the close. RFC/Us arnt meant to have teeth. They are a discussion that are meant to get the target to see what their poor behavior is. If they fail, then they fail and you move on to higher dispute resolution. However, ignoring the line that you underlined because you have 28 v 4 votes in favor of your preferred close doesn't mean squat and is completely against the purpose of an RFC/U. Sorry, it's unfair to you, but that's what they are. Hastuer gave good advice, I suggest you take it.--v/r - TP 17:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Hasteur, this is nothing against you personally, but the instructions do say specifically that an admin can be requested for the close, and this was done. While non-admin closures of RFCs are often appreciated elsewhere in the interests of clearing backlogs, in my experience, any editors who wander into the area of MOS, myself included, quickly find themselves trying to walk on quicksand. Non-admins who have tried to close MOS-related RFCs in the past have deeply regretted it. A non-admin closure simply will not be seen as legitimate. In addition, you will not be viewed as "uninvolved" since you participated in the RFC/U yourself, here: WP:Requests for comment/Apteva#Outside view by Hasteur, recommending that hyphens and en-dashes be replaced by spaces. The sky is blue, the pope is Catholic, and Noetica is Noetica. Let it go.

So we are back to Dicklyon's original question. Is there a suggested process for requesting a community ban here at WP:AN?

Neotarf (talk) 04:33, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Most people who wander over to MOS make one or two edits, almost 300 in the last couple of years, while less than half a dozen made over 50 edits, and only two over 100 edits each (one of whom quit editing WP because of being tired of "arguing with about trivia"). Not sure about it being quicksand, but it has not exactly been what anyone would call welcoming, although the talk page header says "Be polite, and welcoming to new users" (it was missing for part of last year). On the talk page almost 500 editors made one or two edits (about half), and just over half a dozen made over 500 edits each. Apteva (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Apteva, twenty-eight editors have just signed a statement saying they want you to change your behavior, and you are babbling about numbers of edits???!!1! Do you have any clue about what is going on here? Are you willing to pay any attention to them? —Neotarf (talk) 20:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for topic ban for Apteva

Based on the RFC/U and discussion here, and User:Apteva's rejection of all relevant findings and advice, I propose that we declare a community ban for Apteva, from engaging in pushing anti-en-dash and anti-MOS theories, including the theory that MOS and TITLE are in conflict. After the clear consensus at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Apteva, summarized in Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Apteva#Motion to close with 28 editors' endorsements, and considering Apteva's rejection of those findings and continued dispruptive pushing of these theories in the New Year, I see no alternatives (since the RFC/U can't be closed without his agreement and bothering the Arbcom with this seems unnecessary given the clear community consensus).

The consensus RFC/U summary says:

Apteva's persistent pushing of the theory that en dashes are never appropriate in proper names, such as the names of wars, comets, bridges, and airports, has been disruptive. Respecting the wishes of the community as represented by an overwhelming majority of responders at this RFC/U, Apteva will refrain from any further advocating of this position, or any position against en dashes or against the MOS being applicable to article titles, and will not make any page moves or RMs based on such theories. Violation of this topic ban will be grounds for a block and/or a request for arbitration.

And the continued disruption is evident in Apteva's WT:TITLE discussion, including these 2013 items:

• WT:TITLE diff – holding out for his idiosyncratic view with "The very core of using consensus is that even if 6,000 agree with something and only one disagrees, that one just might be right."
• WT:TITLE diff – continuing his long-lost case of Comet Hale–Bopp being incorrectly named.
• contributors data – showing Apteva dominating discussion at WP:TITLE in this new year, in spite of months of being told by many that this behavior is disruptive.

Rephrasing slightly for the context, I propose the following ban be enacted:

Apteva's persistent pushing of the theory that en dashes are never appropriate in proper names, such as the names of wars, comets, bridges, and airports, and his pushing of the theory that the MOS does not apply to article titles, has been disruptive. Based on the consensus reaction of the community, Apteva must refrain from any further advocating of these position, or any position against en dashes or against the MOS being applicable to article titles, and must not make any page moves or RMs based on such theories. Violation of this topic ban will be grounds for an immediate block and/or a request for arbitration.

I believe any uninvolved admin can close and approve this ban here based on the existing discussions linked, especially given the existing AE discretionary sanctions in place concerning MOS and TITLE; I suggest we get Apteva's response here, and then not bother to repeat the reactions that are so richly represented already in the linked RFC/U and elsewhere. Dicklyon (talk) 21:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• A topic ban and community ban are different things; may want to clarify. --Rschen7754 21:22, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

  WP:CBAN says "If an editor has proven to be repeatedly disruptive in one or more areas of Misplaced Pages, the community may engage in a discussion to site ban, topic ban, or place an interaction ban or editing restriction via a consensus of editors who are not involved in the underlying dispute." I'm referring to a community-imposed topic ban. Dicklyon (talk) 22:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

  • Ok, that's a topic ban. When you say "community ban" or just ban in general, you're talking about an indefinite block that can only be overturned by consensus or Arbcom and is usually the result of long term abuse. A topic ban, however, is...well you know.--v/r - TP 22:09, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
    • The topic ban needs to be defined broadly though, the area of disruption has been wide. —Neotarf (talk) 22:40, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support I've been monitoring this from a distance, and the fact that Apteva does not understand what she is doing wrong is quite disturbing and disruptive. --Rschen7754 22:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

  While I occasionally miss these, that is he or she thank you. Or xe. Apteva (talk) 00:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support. This should be at ANI, not AN. I have been watching the progress of the RfCU and I must say that a topic ban on hyphens and dashes is long overdue. Binksternet (talk) 22:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
  • This is a ban proposal rather than discussion of a specific incident, so is entirely appropriate at AN. KTC (talk) 22:55, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
  • This was already taken to ANI. WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive777#Apteva disruption —Neotarf (talk) 22:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
    • And if no action was warranted then, and my behavior has changed, which it has (but not my beliefs, which I am entitled to express appropriately), why would any action be warranted today? I would ask that I be allowed to read over the reams of accusations at the RFC/U and correct my behavior on the basis of those accusations. Apteva (talk) 00:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Question: Does this propsed topic ban on hyphens v dashes extend to article content and article titles via the RM process or does it just apply to the  MOS guideline? I think this aspect should extraordinairly clear in the propsal. --Mike Cline (talk) 22:55, 4 January 2013 (UTC) 
  • We have also seen disruptive refactoring discussion, archiving, resetting of bots, tampering with templates, etc. None of this was a problem when Apteva was editing only in article space. —Neotarf (talk) 23:07, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
    • I am actually one of the very few editors who knows what a dash and a hyphen is, and knows when they are correctly used, so not editing dashes and hyphens and not expressing a view on them is pointless. Apteva (talk) 00:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support the strongly expressed consensus, and the topic ban as a regrettable necessity. (I have closed the RFC/U, though I was involved. It was just a technical matter, since the transfer to this page.) There is no need for a new round of voting here, of course. Everything has already been thoroughly gone over at the RFC/U and its talkpage, with a convincing outcome.
  Noetica 23:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

  Which I reverted - no involved editor can close a non-consensus RfC. Apteva (talk) 00:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• support Whatever it is. I'm happy with an indef site ban by now, after it has gone on this long. Rarely have I seen an editor so clue-resistant. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Alternative proposal

Whereas, the purpose of Misplaced Pages is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia. This is fostered by creating and maintaining an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among the contributors.

Whereas, Misplaced Pages editors are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, trolling, harassment, disruptive point-making, gaming the system, and using Misplaced Pages as a battleground, is prohibited. Administrators and other experienced editors should especially strive to model appropriate standards of courtesy and civility to other editors and to one another.

Whereas, Misplaced Pages exists only because of the community that creates and maintains it. Disagreements between editors on a wide variety of issues frequently occur. The airing of disagreements in a respectful and sincere manner for the purpose of resolution is normal and indeed desirable in any such collaborative project. Where disputes cannot be resolved amicably through the ordinary course of editing and discussion, the project's dispute resolution mechanisms may be used.

Therefore, appropriate dispute resolution shall be applied, such as discussion, DR, RfC, and mediation to resolve any conflict that may exist between or within the WP:MOS and WP:Article titles.

Furthermore, to remove the incivility that currently exists at WP:MOS, both the MOS and its talk page shall be treated as a Dispute Resolution page, and not edited unless a DR volunteer is present. There shall be no discussion of other editors, no discussion of how to apply the MOS (those questions shall be referred to the WP:Help desk), and no discussion or reference to violations of the MOS anywhere in Misplaced Pages. Discussion will be civil, and consist solely of improving the MOS. Anything else will be deleted or removed to the relevant users talk page. This sanction shall remain until either removed by Arbcom or the end of 2013.

--Apteva (talk) 22:23, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• oppose MOS isn't the problem, you are. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:IDHT. --Rschen7754 00:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

RfC

Could an admininstrator please close Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Darkstar1st. TFD (talk) 07:21, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

There's been almost no comments there. It's fairly inactive. I would have a hard time summarizing any consensus from the small number of comments and endorsements there. --Jayron32 04:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it really should be closed as without merit in regards to community opinion as only a couple of the involved in the disputes have commented , so there is not community interest or assessment of the situation and that RFC should not be considered as a reason to allow escalation to Arbitration - It does need to be closed though as its been open long enough as per guidelines , hasn't it? - certified on the 20th of November , open for 6 weeks - and as such I second the request for closure - I am uninvolved imo and willing to close it myself if no admin wants to ? Youreallycan 07:05, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Closed - Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Darkstar1st - Youreallycan 07:32, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

• update - my closure has been reverted by User:RolandR diff - with the edit summary, Reverted to revision 530915559 by RolandR: Undoing closure, since this did not meet any of the criteria in Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing. (TW)) - Youreallycan 14:44, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
  • It should really be something left to an admin to close. Tarc (talk) 15:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
    • YRC, you said that you were willing to close "if no admin wants to" and yet waited less than half-an-hour before doing so? GiantSnowman 15:26, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I closed it 24 hours after the un-actioned request here - also tarc - there is no requirement for an admin only close - I was uninvolved in the rfc user and with the user in question - I am not seeing any dispute with the details and rationale of my close? - Youreallycan 15:33, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

No, it isn't a requirement but it is one of those things that's usually a pretty good idea. If someone sees an admin closure they're far less likely to slam the undo button, IMO. Tarc (talk) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The closure was clearly invalid. According to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing, "Certified disputes may be closed under any of the following circumstances: If no additional complaints are registered for an extended period of time, and the dispute appears to have stopped. From the main page, such RfC/Us are typically "delisted due to inactivity.", The dispute proceeds to another method of dispute resolution, such as mediation or arbitration, The parties and/or participants to the dispute agree (via a motion on the talk page of that rFc/u)."

It is evident that none of these applies: the dispute continues, and further complaints are still being made; there has been no move to another method of dispute resolution; and the parties have not agreed to a closure, certainly not on the RfC/U talk page. In these circumstances, even an admin closure would have been inappropriate, let alone one by a passing non-admin. RolandR (talk) 18:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

You really should strike everything following the comma in that last sentence. There's always more to read, it seems. --Nouniquenames 05:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Admin threatening to block an arbitrator?

Misplaced Pages:Bot Approvals Group/nominations/Cyberpower678

I am currently applying to be a member of BAG and input is greatly appreciated.—cyberpower _Offline 13:31, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

There really aren't many admin who have the technical knowledge to express an informed opinion. We generally just wait for things to go wrong.©Geni 18:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

BAG pages are not really that visible, and so it has been part of the policy since time immemorial that nominations have to be broadly spammed all over the place :D Snowolf 21:50, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Time immemorial = July 3, 2008. MBisanz 19:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

That the time it has been in the bot policy, it was required way before that despite not being in the policy. Snowolf 01:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Time immemorial means since April 2007 which was when the concept of spamming boards started out :) Snowolf 01:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Usurping accounts with a large number of edits

There is an ongoing discussion at Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats' noticeboard#Large usurp, regarding the appropriate way to handle a request to usurp an account belonging to a now-banned editor with a large number (5500) of edits. The bureaucrats have asked for additional input. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Quick read on an unblock request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Now comes Ranger1991 (talk · contribs), who was blocked indef in May 2008 as a vandalism-only account. The account's history largely bears that out - 17 edits from August 2007 to May 2008, all the sort of juvenile kids-screwing-around flavor of vandalism we've all seen before. Good block, to all appearances. Now, over 4 years later, the editor has come back requesting unblock. They acknowledge that they screwed up and that they were deservedly blocked, but note that it has been a long time - they have changed. If unblocked, the editor plans to correct grammatical and spelling errors. I can see a case here for unblocking, but am not willing to pull the trigger on such a gamble without getting some further input. The blocking editor (User:Gwernol) retired in June 2009. UltraExactZZ ~ Did 13:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Support unblock People can change a lot in four years - give him some WP:ROPE and see what he does with it. If the vandalism does reoccur, reblocking is no big deal. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support. No evidence of socking; seems like a good WP:OFFER case. From the username, I'm guessing that the user was 16 when the vandalism began and that he's 21 now, which can make a huge difference. Nyttend (talk) 14:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Though I did not ask about the user's age, your analysis matches my own - and is precisely why I raised the issue here. God knows what a douchebag I would have been had I been an editor here at 16. UltraExactZZ ~ Did 14:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support Four years is a long time. I say we give em a chance. AIRcorn (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support - seems easy enough to monitor if it's not genuine. Jauerback/_dude. 14:33, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support unblock (Non-administrator comment) - 17 vandalism edits 4 years ago... Excellent candidate for a standard offer without prejudice to reblocking if vandalism re-occurs. Salvidrim! 14:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support unblock per standard offer. KTC (talk) 14:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support Indeed, 4 years later is well beyond the standard offer. — ΛΧΣ 14:58, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Sure. I guess he must really like the username; I'm sure no one would ever have noticed if a user with a couple of dozen edits from half a decade ago created a new account, even if it would technically have been block evasion. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support - as someone who began his own Misplaced Pages career as a 17-year-old IP vandal, I can understand the editor's regret & maturity. GiantSnowman 15:04, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Aircorn.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:18, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support absolutely! and we can always reblock him later if issues arise Snowolf 15:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support indeed someone can change allot in 4 years. ·Add§hore· 15:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Note - I've unblocked Ranger based on the discussion above. Here's hoping we gained a productive contributor today, as opposed to losing yet another. Ed  15:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Notification: Global Lock of User:Fête

As requested by a Steward, I am notifying enwiki that User:Fête has been globally locked from editing all Wikimedia projects, following persistent abuse across frwiki, frwikt, enwiki, enwikt. I am unsure which template(s) should be applied to his userspace, so I will leave that for someone here to take care of. Salvidrim! 18:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

{{Indefblocked-global}}, I think.--ukexpat (talk) 18:47, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

"And there was much rejoicing!" --Orange Mike | Talk 18:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

User and talk page protection required

Hi, can someone please place a protection on my user and talk pages? I seem to have attracted the attention of a complete idiot and I've no doubt it will go on even though I've warned him that I'll go to the police if it continues. I suspect the problem has arisen because I twice challenged an IP who was attacking another user. It looks a safe bet that it's the same person. Relevant diffs are this, this, this, this and this. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. --Old Lanky (talk) 20:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Most of those diffs are by you. I only see two IP edits on your user page and talk page. That doesn't necessitate protection yet.--v/r - TP 21:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Violations of WP:NLT don't help either. Rutebega (talk) 22:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates

Hey, everyone! We're about to come out of our holiday period, and could use a little more participation while people are still trickling back, particularly as we're ending the extensions on the candidacies we were doing around the Christmas.

It's a fairly relaxed process, so long as you've read the WP:Featured picture criteria and like looking at artworks, it's worth giving it a try!

Adam Cuerden 21:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)