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California Chess Congress

Hi Don, I just wanted to let you know that I sent you an email with a copy of that article. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help you! All the best, Keilana| 15:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area

I responded at Talk:Opa-locka, Florida regarding the merger proposal. I really think it would be a bad idea to start merging lengthy content about a city's historic districts/buildings into a generic article about the city. You mentioned that you didn't think Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area was the right name, but you didn't suggest an alternate. What did you have in mind? BTW, I've nominated the above (and several others) for DYK. You've been taking on some interesting subjects lately. Cbl62 (talk) 22:33, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me to the new discussion at the Opa-Locka article instead of at Talk:Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area . I had already suggested a name, "Arabian Nights theme architecture of Opa-Locka, Florida" and just now suggested it at the new discussion.

I'm really glad you appreciate the topics I've opened recently, and have chosen to develop them further. That seems to include DYKs in process for Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area, for Punta Gorda Fish Co., and for Louden Machinery Company. Thanks! --doncram

There are a total of seven articles on which you have been co-nominated for DYK: Louden Machinery Co., Thompson-Starrett, Opa-Locka TRA, Punta Gorda Fish Co., Champion Bridge Co., Joseph C. Wells, and Henry W. Cleaveland. All very solid topics IMO. Cbl62 (talk) 20:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Henry W. Cleaveland

On 9 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Henry W. Cleaveland, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the works of Henry W. Cleaveland, a founding member of the American Institute of Architects, include the original Palace Hotel, San Francisco? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Henry W. Cleaveland. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Yngvadottir (talk) 00:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Punta Gorda Fish Co.

On 10 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Punta Gorda Fish Co., which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that ten Florida fish cabins and icehouses built by the Punta Gorda Fish Co. have been listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Punta Gorda Fish Co.. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Thompson-Starrett Co.

On 11 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thompson-Starrett Co., which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Thompson-Starrett Co. built six National Historic Landmarks in the U.S., including the Rockefeller Estate and the tallest skyscraper in the world from 1913 to 1930 (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thompson-Starrett Co.. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:01, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Louden Machinery Company

On 11 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Louden Machinery Company, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Louden Machinery Co. designed more than 25,000 barns (catalog pictured) as well as monorail devices used in manufacturing the first atomic bomb and at a B-29 bomber plant? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Louden Machinery Company. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Joseph C. Wells

On 12 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Joseph C. Wells, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the works of Joseph C. Wells, a founding member of the American Institute of Architects, include "Old First" in Greenwich Village? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph C. Wells. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Champion Bridge Co.

On 13 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Champion Bridge Co., which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Champion Bridge Co. was charged with criminal antitrust violations in 1906 as part of the Ohio Attorney General's "war on the bridge trust"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Champion Bridge Co.. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations

		100000 Edits
		Congratulations on reaching 100000 edits! 100000 edits are so many that if you told people that you have one hundred thousands edits on Misplaced Pages, no one would believe you :) Keep up the good work within WikiProject National Register of Historic Places and other areas! jonkerz ♠talk 16:23, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I found this number through Special:NewPagesFeed, but X!'s Edit Counter gives 105,794 live edits and 107,423 total edits. ] ♠talk 16:23, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing! Yep, it has been a lot of contributing, mostly on historic sites articles. --doncram 23:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Wow - that is quite an achievement. Congratulations! I really like some of the work you've been doing with the architects and especially the work that has been earning DYK's. Informative, non-contentiious, good solid work. dm (talk) 11:03, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I tend to think that all the work I have ever done over has been basically non-contentious, but that hasn't stopped contention from happening; I bear some responsibility for failing to stop what grew to become long-term bullying and nastiness that has been unpleasant for me and for others, but other NRHP editors and other Misplaced Pages editors have responsibility too. And I tend to think that, out of all the architect/builder/engineer articles I have created working off a list of 907 needed ones, that many of the less-well-developed ones are more important in some ways (supporting/linking individual NRHP site articles; establishing something valid where sources are less available/accessible to anyone but the local info is important). But point taken, that the better developed ones are indeed more satisfying reads. And I am happy to have readers and to have your appreciation in particular. Thanks! --doncram 14:18, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Remind others to seek colleagues

Although the 2,000 wp:WikiProjects have been shrinking in active members, the basic concept, to seek like-minded Wikipedians, is still working to provide networks of improved editing. Always remind educated people to seek colleagues in their field of study. Years ago, I fell under the illusion that "intellectuals" had all left WP, but then I noticed the thousands of medical articles were still being improved, rather than just marred as "my sister takes those pills, izz good dope". For example, consider the work involved to write the following medical article:

• Article: "Serotonin–norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor"

Among the 9,500 active registered editors, who update more than 25 articles each month, there are thousands of normal, educated people, not "control freaks" trying to prove their power. Plus, many academics can edit Misplaced Pages, "undetected", by using the rotating-IP addresses, and hence few at their universities know who they are. In general, just remind other editors to seek support from their colleagues. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:11, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Message

Hello. You have a new message at User talk:Anna Frodesiak#For a great Userpage's talk page. 04:50, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Email

I got your note about having sent an email. I haven't used my old aol account in months. When I tried to access it just now, I learned it has been deactivated, so I'm not able to read your note. Cbl62 (talk) 00:54, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Got your response. My only other email is a work email which I prefer not to use. I will see if I can get the aol account reactivated. Cbl62 (talk) 05:12, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area

On 24 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area includes 20 buildings developed by aviation pioneer Glenn Curtiss using an "Arabian Nights" theme? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Opa-Locka Thematic Resource Area. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Granville Fuller House published

Thanks for assisting the originator! MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:43, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Official Congratulations

		100000 Edits
		Congratulations on reaching 100000 edits. You have achieved a milestone that very few editors have been able to accomplish. The Misplaced Pages Community thanks you for your continuing efforts. Keep up the good work!

If you like you can add this userbox to your collection.

This user has been awarded with the 100000 Edits award.

```Buster Seven Talk 13:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Congrats, that's a lot of edits :) --SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

National Bank of Commerce

Thanks. I'm not really sure what happened there. I see I did all the significant editing and I don't know how those buildings got left on the first page.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:23, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleted page

No, I will not. You included an excessive quote of nonfree copyrighted material, and I will not commit copyright infringement by copying it. Nyttend (talk) 04:52, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Administrators are under no obligation to provide copies of deleted content. When the content has been deleted because of a copyvio, it would at the minimum be contributory copyright infringement, so I will not break the law by restoring your copyright infringement. Nyttend (talk) 05:00, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't respond to your entire message. It is not a abuse of administrative tools to delete pages containing copyright infringement; otherwise every G12 speedy deletion would be an abuse of administrative tools. Nyttend (talk) 05:01, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

If you wish for me to give you a full response, you'll need to write substantially less; I don't have time to read pages of talk-page comments, and that's why I couldn't leave you a courtesy note a few hours ago when I saw your statement. It would be appreciated if you were to spend less time on your talk page messages and more time on developing information for mainspace edits. Nyttend (talk) 19:05, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing me there. I've never seen that before, and I would strongly suggest that you continue using that book and that method of citation. My only objection is the non-fair use of copyrighted text, as quotations of the sort that you have used are easily replaceable with your own words. Nyttend (talk) 21:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating North Inlet Trail, Doncram!

Misplaced Pages editor Nkansahrexford just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

will love to see more info added soon. Maybe a photo. cheers

To reply, leave a comment on Nkansahrexford's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

San Fran buried ship

I reverted your removal of my photo of the San Fran buried ship Apollo from the SF NRHP list. See here for part of the story, but it works out like this. Ships including the Apollo were deserted by their crews during the gold rush in SF harbor, and left to rot. The shallow harbor was filled in and became valuable land. Squatters would claim "water lots" by moving a deserted hulk on top of the soon to be valuable real estate. The might use them for storage, but mainly they were just parked there. The land was filled in around them. Buildings were built on top of them. They'd be rediscovered later (and then another building might be built on top)!

The Apollo is 30 feet under that building and will never see the light of day again and is totally inaccessible. The pic of the building is the best we'll ever get. Hope this makes sense. Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 01:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I'd prefer if you would contribute at new article Apollo (storeship) rather than explaining facts of the site here. But no, it doesn't make sense to show a photo of not-the-thing. Like it doesn't make sense to show the photo of a new building, that replaced the old building, in many other cases. Wait for an old photo. There are artifacts of the ship which could be shown, i would expect. Hold out for something of the actual topic, at the list-article, and in the infobox of the article.... I did use the pic in the article, just not in the infobox. I don't object really, but I dunno why you are noticing that change and writing here, rather than at the Talk page of the list-article. --doncram 01:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Your note

Hi Doncram ... Thanks for your invitation on my talk page, but starting new articles from scratch is not my favorite activity out here. I don't particularly enjoy writing and I already devote as much time as I have to this particular hobby. Regards, --sanfranman59 (talk) 01:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Great minds think alike, etc

Hi Doncram, I just noticed that you and I are working on drafts of the same topic - User:Doncram/Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware). I've already done a lot on it. Would you mind if I merged the non-overlapping bits of my version into yours? I'm planning to nominate it for Did You Know? with one of the following hooks:

• ... that the buildings and gardens of Gibraltar are listed on the United States National Register of Historic Places?

• ... that Gibraltar's gardens were laid out by one of America's first female landscape architects?

Let me know what you think! Prioryman (talk) 18:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I would be very glad to collaborate in that. :) Sorry if I jumped in after you, if I did; if yours was started first would be happy for your draft to absorb mine, instead. I had in mind a DYK possibly like:

• ... that Gibraltar was landscaped by a woman who was discriminated against in her MIT architectural training? who had struggled in a male-dominated field in the United States? or i don't know what. But those are not yet supported in the draft, and your suggestions are probably simply and better. By the way, did you know that there is actually a U.S. NRHP-listed site in Morrocco, for real, the American Legation, Tangier?

As you see i have been drafting the User:Doncram/Marian Cruger Coffin article which could be part of a double DYK, but actually i think a single DYK might work best. I have recently found and added the Gestram source but have not at all developed what is possible from that great source.

Look forward to editing together in this, thanks for inviting me. --doncram 19:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for your help! Prioryman (talk) 23:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I think it's now probably about ready to go. Could you take a look at it and let me know what you think? Prioryman (talk) 00:49, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

A thought

Regarding your edit summary here, there is indeed more content in your recreation. I deleted the earlier version as it consisted solely of an image - there was no content. I believe the original creator had additional images of buildings available, perhaps you reach out to them? --Jezebel'sPonyo 21:57, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

...and same with this one. --Jezebel'sPonyo 22:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

First Presbyterian Church of Roseburg

Hello Doncram, thanks for the info, and yes feel free to move and develop the article. I will get back down there one of these days and do some research and photographs if that would be helpful.Visitor7 (talk) 06:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Butts Bridge

I see you added an infobox with coordinates, but there were coords in the title. I eliminated the duplication, but the ones you added differ from the ones added by Primehunter. Do you know which ones are correct?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

This is about Butts Bridge. I see you put the coordinates that Primehunter had added into the NRHP infobox, and clicking to look at them in a map confirms those are spot on correct, for the bridge bringing that street across the Quinebaug River. Thanks for noticing the duplication and resolving it correctly! :) --doncram 00:45, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Wilson Bros. & Company

I wanted to let you know that I nominated this article for deletion. It duplicates the article Wilson Brothers & Company. But I did merge all of your list of works into the list on the other page.

Thanks for your kind words on DeArmond, Ashmead & Bickley, and good luck on your Gibraltar article. == BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 16:25, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for noticing the duplication and for implementing the appropriate merger of material. I further edited a bit at the new article (for example showing redlinks for the NRHP items not yet having articles, but which are wikipedia-notable topics. Red links help the wikipedia grow.... And, the PROD for deletion was removed by another editor in favor of making it a redirect, which seems best. Thanks. --doncram 12:12, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Hobart steel houses

I would strongly suggest that you refrain from creating implausible redirects such as from the steel houses to the Hobart steel house company; anyone who wants to look up one of these houses will not be looking to read an article about the company, and it's no more sensible to redirect them to the company than it would be to redirect C&O 1308 to Baldwin Locomotive Works if Jameslwoodward hadn't created it. Whether or not the article contains a list, it is not a likely target, and lists of products are not appropriate for manufacturer articles. Additionally, will you please refrain from the vague, unencyclopedic content as seen here? You have previously been warned against things such as "seem similar", and it's simply a hindrance to others to place categories on articles that shouldn't have them, such as putting an architectural style category or a houses-built-in-year category on this article. If you wish for these articles to be bluelinks, you need to create articles yourself with information about where the properties are located, their histories, and why these properties are notable — not simply creating one-sentence stubs. Nyttend (talk) 06:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Lehi Main Street Historic District, Doncram!

Misplaced Pages editor Polarscribe just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Excellent stuff!

To reply, leave a comment on Polarscribe's talk page.

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A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating David Morgan House, Doncram!

Misplaced Pages editor Titodutta just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

The article has been reviewed! --Tito Dutta (talk) 05:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

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Some baklava for you!

Thanks for creating David Morgan House. Best, Tito Dutta (talk) 05:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

.jpg images

Please tell me how to edit the title of an image that has a typo. Highland Shool should be SChool. The image is used in more than one article, so would fixing a typo in the TITLE of an article "mess up" all the other articles? Especially if the image is used in other language versions? Respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 00:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tiyang, good question. The "Highland Shool Boulder Colorado USA.jpg" image is actually located over at commons.wikimedia.org, and is not in wikipedia proper. I think the file over there in commons needs to be moved/renamed, and I don't know how to do that. Can you ask over there? Do you have a Talk page over there, perhaps you could call for help somehow, over there. --doncram 00:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Or ask at wt:NRHP here in wikipedia, where many editors who also do commons work also would know, i bet. Good point that the impact on other wikipedias of a filename needs to be considered. Honestly i don't know. One option is to just leave it misspelled in the photo title, which doesn't show any public way, but I agree there oughta be a way. --doncram 00:33, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Leaving the word school misspelled is not an option. Respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 05:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

If it's only in the title and doesn't show, why not? Britmax (talk) 08:29, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I just put in a move request over at Commons. As a logged-in user over there, at the photo's page, I found there is a menu option to "Move" (meaning rename), which turns out to lead to a move request form, which I filled out by selecting reason number 5 out of a list.

About the file name not showing, I meant when used in a wikipedia article, as at Highland School (Boulder, Colorado), the picture displays but the regular wikipedia reader would not see the file name. However, at the Commons page of the photo, and at the wikipedia page of a copy of the photo, it does show misspelled. We'll have to wait and see about the file being moved now --doncram 12:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: Well it seems to have been moved (renamed)! --doncram 21:13, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

And, i updated the filename in the several places that the old filename appeared in the English wikipedia. It is possible that the old filename appears in the German or other wikipedias, but I can't easily see where it is used. The German wikipedia has extensive coverage of U.S. NRHP-listed places, I know. --doncram 21:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Great work! I knew you could do it! Could you look at the Highland School Talk Page and indicate you have made the change? Thank you and thank you. Very Respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 02:33, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

You have been nominated

See WP:Merchandise giveaways. Thank you again. Respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 12:38, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

HD buildings of a certain year, Barnum/Palliser Historic District example

You might want to spend some time reading about categorization. The problem is that the DISTRICT was not built in that year. It is rather simple. While some buildings in the district may have been built in that year, that is not a valid reason to categorize the district. I know you do not like my edit comment. However if you would not miscategroize articles, I would not be editing those needing an edit comment. Also I'm seeing a new type of miscategorization in some articles. I saw this in a by state category. It was for a bank which was categorized in banks of some state AND commercial buildings of some state. The commercial category needs to be removed from the article, and the category banks should be in the commercial category not all of the articles. Finally someone needs to take a hard look at how NRHP is categorizing articles. I have seen numerous cases where a, lets say, office building is listed. However since it was recently converted to residential use, it is in an NRHP category as residential and not office which is probably the better choice. I would rather move on to other things but the NRHP articles always seem to placed in very imprecise categories requiring someone else to put them in the correct categories. Bottom line, the edits are correct and in the example you provided you can have kept me out of editing the article if correct categories were placed on the article when you created it. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Continuing, as one complete discussion, at User talk:Vegaswikian#HD buildings of a certain year, Barnum/Palliser Historic District example. --doncram 21:14, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of local Methodist churches

The article List of local Methodist churches has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:NLIST — practically never-ending list, seems to duplicate purpose of Category:Methodist churches.

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Theopolisme 23:32, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for Speedy Deletion

Speedy deletion nomination of List of local Methodist churches

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on List of local Methodist churches requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Revmqo (talk) 02:51, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Stick/Eastlake

AWB doesn't offer the ability to check whether another category name exists under a slightly different spelling; it only offers the ability to highlight and/or remove categories that don't exist at the exact spelling that's actually been used. And people quite frequently try to use categories that should never exist, so not every redlinked category is necessarily something that either should be created or just needs a spelling correction — and I'm not necessarily always the person who's correctly qualified to judge that, as even if I had opted to create the redlink instead of deleting it, I wouldn't have known where or how to file it in the category tree anyway.

Ultimately, the onus is on the person who added that category to those four articles in the first place to ensure that they were using the correct spelling and/or fixed it after the fact if they made a mistake. But there's not much point in rapping me on the nose for not having the expertise in architecture to know how to fix their error by myself — redlinked categories aren't supposed to be left on articles at all, which means that even if I don't know how to fix it I still have to remove it one way or another. Bearcat (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Christianity Barnstar
		Dear Doncram, I award you this barnstar for your wonderful efforts in the expansion of List of local Methodist churches! I hope this brightens your day! I hope to see more great contributions to WikiProject Christianity related articles from you! Anupam 03:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

NRHP

Hi Doncram. If you go to nrhp.focus.nps.gov and enter "Hotel Senator" under resource name, hit enter, then select the listed name, you will be brought to a page (Record Number: 380079). How can I link to that page. The URL given is http://nrhp.focus.nps.gov/natregsearchresult.do?fullresult=true&recordid=0 and that doesn't work. - Uzma Gamal (talk) 10:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, after I "go to nrhp.focus.nps.gov and enter "Hotel Senator" under resource name, hit enter," then wait, then the two results you want eventually appear below:

• http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/79003459.pdf
• http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Photos/79003459.pdf

And per instructions at wp:NRHPhelp (perhaps you are checking there already?) you can cite them in a wikipedia article by adapting <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url=http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/.pdf |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |author= |date= |publisher=National Park Service}} and </ref>. Does this help? --doncram 13:18, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hoping to figure out a URL for the page in which the two results appeared, rather than the two .pdf results themselves. It's strange that NRHP does not let you link to that page. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 03:34, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Orlo Epps for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Orlo Epps is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Orlo Epps until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. C6541 (T↔C) 00:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

November 2012

Stop introducing errors, as you did with this edit to the introduction of National Register of Historic Places listings in Allen County, Indiana. Persistent addition of errors is vandalism and will result in blocking. Nyttend (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

This is your level 3 warning for introducing errors. Nyttend (talk) 17:34, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Copying these comments and replying at User talk:Nyttend. Please continue there. --doncram 01:15, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Moved discussion

I have moved our discussion from my talk page to NRHP project talk page. Thundersnow 16:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Whoops! I likely over-reacted over at WT:NRHP. Sorry, but I don't want to see you put into difficult positions again. All the best. Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 21:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem, thanks, i appreciate your concern and wishes. --doncram 23:38, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Charles McMillen (architect)

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A tag has been placed on Charles McMillen (architect) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Rushbugled13 (talk) 02:41, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Caste list

I've responded in the caste list thread that you started. I am sorry if it all sounds like I am talking down to you but this thing is just a nightmare and it involves potentially well over 4000 articles and far too few people with experience to deal. I've spent about 20 months on this so far and expect it to take another 5 or 6 years just to get the existing content somewhere close to reality. Any help is, of course, always welcome but caste is such an incredibly complex thing that the learning process is lengthy. - Sitush (talk) 20:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

BTW, using the 1950 stuff for List of Scheduled Castes is going to bring you a lot of grief. It is so out of date as to be useless and I would suggest that if you really want to go down that road then you rename it to List of Scheduled Castes in 1950. Please be aware that there are numerous names shared by several different communities, which can make linking to articles a dodgy thing to do. Even more so because some castes have changed their names. Furthermore, the lists are actually created at regional level, not nationally. The 1950 list was really little more than a paradigm. - Sitush (talk) 20:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. About the scheduled castes, could we discuss the sources at Talk:List of Scheduled Castes? Copying your comment to there. --doncram 20:14, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Will do. - Sitush (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

You have TLDR on that talk page and more to come. Thought I'd better just catch your eye, though. You've cited People of India Punjab Volume XXXVII edited by I.J.S Bansal and Swaran Singh pages 20 to 25 Manohar. It is not a reliable source. There are two series of that work: the initial "national" series was published by Oxford University Press and is fine; the second series was the "states", published by various outfits. The second series is mostly a rip-off of the British Raj works, often word-for-word and often without proper attribution. Since the Raj works are unreliable (believe me, they are!), so too is the states series. - Sitush (talk) 22:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries Seattle

Decemmber 8 - Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited

Date Saturday, December 8, 2012 Time 10 a.m. – 3 p.m. Location Seattle Public Library Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library, 1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104 Event An editathon on Seattle-related Misplaced Pages articles with Misplaced Pages tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand. Hashtag #wikiloveslib or #glamwiki. Registration http://wll-seattle.eventbrite.com or use on-wiki regsistration. Yours, Maximilianklein (talk) 04:11, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Blackton, Arkansas

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Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Blackton, Arkansas requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Misplaced Pages:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Greatuser (talk) 15:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Orlo Epps

On 2 December 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Orlo Epps, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Greensboro, North Carolina, architect Orlo Epps was also a professor of mathematics and physics and a socialist? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Orlo Epps. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:02, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/WLM-US 2013 discussion

Would definitely be appreciated. Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 04:53, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of Anglican churches

The article List of Anglican churches has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Way too long list. This should either be a list of lists, a pointer to other pages, or not exist at all. Category:Anglican church buildings contains thousands of Anglican churches, e.g. nearly 1,000 in Category:19th-century Anglican church buildings alone. As it is currently set up, this list is not a feasible list topic.

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Fram (talk) 15:32, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Lists of churches

I haev moved a number of your "list of churches" articles to your userspace. Not only are they, as conceived now, a spectacularly bad idea, they were also completely and utterly useless, and it is better to give the reader nothing than such dreadful things. Instead of trying to create ten such articles at once, why not take them one at a time, see what's feasible, what format works, and get them up to a decent level before bringing them to the mainspace (and certainly before starting another one). There is no rush, no need to create them all at once. E.g. User:Doncram/List of Catholic churches: if you want to create a list of Catholic churches in the US, then do so, instead of creating it in a general, worldwide list of such churches. Of course, we already have List of the Catholic cathedrals of the United States, List of churches in the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, List of churches in the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New Orleans, ... Do you plan on having a complete list in one page, or do you want to have separate lists per country (or sublevel of country)? The first is not feasible, but is what you started out doing in a rather US- and NRHP-slanted way (many churches are notable for other things than being NRHP-listed, obviously: Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels is probably not yet NRHP listed, but obviously notable.

First, think through what you want to create with these lists, and how they might look when the basic work is finished; then proceed with them, and move them to mainspace in a more or less stable and usable format, even if they aren't complete yet (they will never be complete anyway, but that's less of a problem). Confronting users with malformed 50K empty lists is worse than useless though. Fram (talk) 11:05, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Fram makes some very good points; I agree. Also, continuing to snipe at Orlady is a Bad Thing. bobrayner (talk) 14:28, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Coding errors?

I've hit an odd MediaWiki error while editing some of your lists of churches. Could you go to the "MWException fatal error" section of WP:VP/T and note whether or not you're getting these errors when you edit these pages? I've not had this problem with other people's creations or other pages that you've created, so I'm wondering if you accidentally made some sort of coding mistake with these pages. Nyttend (talk) 05:06, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Just stop now, please

Doncram you really do not know wha you are doing here. I've reverted this. You are confusing two synonymous but unrelated communities and it is not the first time that you have done this. Do you really want to kick off a massive caste warring episode on Misplaced Pages? Right now, that is the bomb that you are priming. - Sitush (talk) 21:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Please address the content question you raise at Talk:Koli people#Other Backward Class question. I note there has never been any discussion at that Talk page; it is high time that something be discussed there. Thanks. --doncram 22:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) And I've had to alter per this, which would appear to be some poorly-phrased stock sentence you plan to insert willy-nilly. You've been told that these lists change etc. - Sitush (talk) 22:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

No, I will not address your poor contributions on numerous talk pages. You are not playing the divide and rule game with me. You are wrong in fact, you have little clue re: the subject and all I am doing is demonstrating that you need to back off. Keep on with this and you'll find yourself at ANI for disruptive editing. - Sitush (talk) 22:11, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Sorry, but we really need to stop this headlong rush and you are showing no signs either of doing so or of understanding the subject matter. - Sitush (talk) 22:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Consider this...

Being incorrect with edits is not a bad thing, but your history works against you. Calm down, back away and let time heal some wounds.--Amadscientist (talk) 03:29, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Doncram, you recently left a 1,600 word comment on ANI ("Comment by doncram"). Do you understand that comments between 200 and 500 words are considered lengthy for ANI, with 100 word comments approaching the average attention span limit? Please, please, please read Misplaced Pages:Too long; didn't read and be concise in the future. That is, if you want people to actually read your comments. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

List of OBCs

Why is a list encyclopaedic, I'd like to ask before voting at the AfD? Any article would simply be a reproduction of another list. Perhaps we could have something like Group A is OBC in the Union list but not in State X but is so in State Y, that is all I could think of that a list on Misplaced Pages could inform and put in one place beyond what is already available. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 18:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be busy, I will explain this further, Other Backward Class in the primary source is a list, as you know, since you shared "list of OBCs - Goa" as a source. Secondly there are about thirty states and union territories in India each with a list, the Union government has their own list, each list could have about 100 entries, do you wish you have a page list with thousands of entries? The list is dynamic, groups keep entering or leaving the list, does Wikipeida have the manpower to keep such a list upto date.? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:40, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

This is about List of Other Backward Classes, under AFD discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Other Backward Classes. Thank you for inquiring. Yes, i actually think identifying that "Koli" or another group is named as OBC in some states (and list them) and not others would be helpful, and that other commonalities will be noted. This could "add value" and allow for more consolidation in the list (one entry for same name in all of its states) and a shorter list, or more room for extra description of each, than we might expect from your rough estimates. And, value is to be added is by making the list searchable and sortable in various ways (currently I don't know of an Indian government document that allows us to search for all instances of "koli", for example; one big list provides that searchability. We can handle pretty huge lists. But mostly value is created by providing, for each, a link to a corresponding articles (or indicating by a redlink that no corresponding article exists). It would be pretty much impossible for a person to rely upon the category system alone, or any other way, for making sense of India's many OBCs.

And, yes, Misplaced Pages does have the manpower to keep lists of thousands of items up-to-date where explicit sources are available (and it would not be a tragedy if the article was slightly out of date, sometimes, as long as it was explicit on what date it was updated through). It is rather a lot of what I do, e.g. in maintaining and developing within lists of historic sites (e.g. 85,000+ large List of RHPs and 2,400+ large List of NHLs) and many other lists like List of Masonic buildings that include other things, too. There exist List of bridges and List of ships and many other types of big lists... try Lists of lists? --doncram 05:02, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I am convinced by a part of your argument and have voted keep, I hope promises are delivered and we have a useful list. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Universalist Church

Sorry It looks like we're stepping on one another's toes (me on yours more likely!) and I'll stop for now to see what it is you want to accomplish. Respond on my talk if you need me. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the note. Yes we seemed to be tripping over each other. I was changing my mind over things, too, as i went along, so it was pretty confusing. Anyhow, I just opened a Requested Move discussion section at Talk:Universalist Church to sort the main thing out, please do comment there. --doncram 00:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom

Hi doncram, you have mentioned ArbCom both here and in the recent ANI thread. The latter was particularly specific, eg: you said " I think it is time to seek an arbcom case ..." Some people have doubts regarding whether ArbCom would take on this messy situation but clearly you favour raising it with them. Why not propose such a case to ArbCom, then? Apparently, there is precedent for a self-referral in the Ottava Rima case and, of course, it would demonstrate your good faith. - Sitush (talk) 10:39, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you planning to keep recounting historical issues again and again and again.... as you have been doing with Yogesh Khandke? Please stop nagging him.OrangesRyellow (talk) 11:51, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Something mentioned by doncram less than 24 hours ago (as linked above) is hardly "historical". Now please stop stalking me. - Sitush (talk) 12:07, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

In my reading, what Doncram was saying there is different from what you are saying (again, in my reading). Doncram wasn't saying Doncram should be taken to the arb, you are. And the issues you want to be taken to arb are historical. I was only following-up on an issue I am involved with, and wasn't following you. In any case, several people have raised concerns about your behavior. You can expect things you do or say to be under a microscope.OrangesRyellow (talk) 13:34, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Where above have I said that doncram should be taken to ArbCom? I said that the issues could be self-referred. The problem is not going to go away until something is done and doncram clearly thinks the same. As one of the major participants, doncram could bring this to resolution in a way that I for one cannot. The outcome may favour doncram, who knows?- Sitush (talk) 13:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Apparently, there is precedent for a self-referral in the Ottava Rima case and, of course, it would demonstrate your good faith. In that sentence, I do not see the word "issues". You appear to be changing the meaning of what you said. Anyway, I have no intention of continuing endlessly in a game of hair-splitting. Whatever. If Doncram wants to take something to the arbs, better let Doncram decide when and if they want to do it. If Doncram wants it, why should they need to be pushed?OrangesRyellow (talk) 15:34, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I am not pushing. I asked a question. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Koli

You'll have to take Goa out of Koli people. You have no idea if they are the same community, as I've said previously. Reinstating the same stuff is not going to make it right. - Sitush (talk) 18:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Please discuss this content issue at its article, at Talk:Koli people#Other Backward Class question. --doncram 18:52, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I've already explained that is not going to work, in the full glare of ANI. IIRC, people agreed with me. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Please discuss this content issue at its article, at Talk:Koli people#Other Backward Class question. Thanks. --doncram 19:07, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Userfy

Please see User_talk:JohnCD#Reconsider_deletion_of_Userfy Mkdw 23:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Sherman House

Hi Doncram, Thanks for adding an article page for Sherman House (Batesville, Indiana). I just learned about this Sherman House which was featured on My Ghost Story. And according to the show, and its owner is quite haunted. I'll try to add more information to the Sherman House page but I have to find some reliable sources.Sue Kastle (talk) 02:43, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

North Dakota Pix

User:Klotz from Commons has dropped off about 20 pix from ND (long story). Thought you might be interested.

Merry Christmas - I'll be more or less gone for a week.

Smallbones<sub>(smalltalk)</sub> 14:14, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, i eventually see this regards commons user KLOTZ's contributions and that in this edit you added 14 thumb pix to the List of RHPs in ND page. I am happy to add these to the corresponding individual articles (most or all of which I created), am doing so, then will look for other 6 you suggest must exist. Thanks for the notice.

It would be usual for someone adding a pic to an NRHP list-article to add it also to any pre-existing individual NRHP article, I would think, right? I am happy to help get these pics placed though, when specifically requested. --doncram 04:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

To follow up, I placed those 14 (although one was done by Smallbones already), and placed 3 more that were at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Unused images, and further observed that Smallbones had placed two Burleigh county ones and one Sargent County one into their individual articles already. So I think that's it. Smallbones, let me know if I am missing anything, or if I can do anything more. Thanks! --doncram 05:29, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

Vegaswikian (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Vegaswikian (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, what he said, basically. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 03:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

	Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas 2012! Happy New Year and all the best in 2013! Thanks for all you do here, and best wishes for the year to come.
	Ruhrfisch ><>° 14:22, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Delaware NRHP places

Thank you for your response to me on User talk:Smallbones about Chapeltown, Delaware and Dutch Neck Crossroads, Delaware, to which I would add Mastens Corner, Delaware. Your response covers just about what I would expect Peter to say, because he follows up on NRHP concerns very well. I would leave to his, or your best judgement, as to whether articles need to be created, or not, or when, or if photos can be added to the place articles, and there is no need for speed at all. I have assisted him with photographs of NRHP buildings in Philadelphia, where I live, and where I hope to get meetings of Misplaced Pages editors started sometime in February 2013. --DThomsen8 (talk) 02:25, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, glad you found my response helpful. I was concerned that you shouldn't think there's anything wrong with redlinks existing. Anyhow I have further gone on just now to start articles for Allee House (Dutch Neck Crossroads, Delaware) and Vogl House, that were the two redlinks in those articles. Oddly, by the way, in the NRHP nom doc for the Allee House, it is described as a Queen Anne architecture house, though the photo and the date of construction both seem to belie that. Cheers, --doncram 05:49, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Allee House

A tag has been placed on Allee House requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either

• disambiguates two or fewer extant Misplaced Pages pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
• disambiguates no (zero) extant Misplaced Pages pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Senator2029 “let's talk” 06:06, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Your interaction with Sitush

Hi Doncram, your interaction style was brought to my attention (in particular, this discussion). There, Sitush was not uncivil and yet you continued to resort to argumenta ad hominem. You are an established user and I don't want to sound condescending, but you certainly must be aware that discussing the other contributor(s) during a content dispute does nothing to solve it and actually makes it more difficult to come to a consensus. Now, please stop. If you believe Sitush's behaviour has been inappropriate, there are various venues where it is appropriate to discuss the issue; the talk page of an article is not one of them. If you persist, I'll have to brandish WP:Castes and impose a restriction... Salvio 11:13, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi Salvio. I don't recognize your username. Could you explain how your attention was brought to my edits, please? I am curious if you were asked by someone or what. About ad hominem attacks, that was exactly what I was raising with editor Sitush, asking them to stop with that, and I think your view is too short or inadvertently biased or something, if you come to an evaluation of me that way without seeing his edits as more problematic. My exact point was that every edit he has made at that Talk page and/or in other interactions (which you may not have seen, e.g. at Yogeshe's Talk page, e.g. in other new interactions Sitush has made where he asserts others are "POV pushers") has involved an attack against another editor. I'll take a look at wp:Castes but offhand think it would be a mistake for you to step in in too heavy-handed and too one-sided a way. I don't have a side in anything caste-related, anyhow. And, at that Talk section, happily Sitush saw fit to strike their last comment, and to acknowledge in their edit summary that it was "kneejerk", seeming to accept my point. Thanks for your concern, anyhow. No need for anyone else to comment here, thanks. --doncram 15:21, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

You can't read my mind, tell the world and then tell me I cannot reply here. My striking was not an agreement with your comment, nor did the edit summary say that. Yet again, you misrepresent me. It has to stop, Now. I'll say no more on this subject here and I would appreciate it if, in the spirit of good faith and right to reply, you allowed this comment to stand. - Sitush (talk) 21:23, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

(ec with Sitush editing of own comment) Okay, comment away, Sitush. I will exercise my right to delete others' comments if they choose to butt in. Sitush, you invited this discussion by your request to editor Salvio, showing at User talk:Salvio giuliano/Archive 58#Overstepping the mark and at

Hi Doncram. You probably do not recognise my username, because lately I've been much more inactive than I was before, so it's harder to see me around. That said, I consider myself rather experienced when it comes to the topic area, for I have been acting as an admin with regard to it for over a year Salvio. I was also the one who proposed the adoption of discretionary sanctions to deal with the disruption caused by editors warring about castes. As you have already guessed, Sitush asked me on my talk page to review his edits and yours. And so I did. Now, I believe he was firm and probably also frustrated, but, in my opinion, he was not uncivil. I don't want to be disrespectful and I don't really know how to phrase this, but I don't think you know enough about Indian castes to be making edits in what's an extremely sensitive topic area. And, so, while you always intended to improve Misplaced Pages, your actions inadvertently caused disruption. For that reason, under WP:Castes, you are hereby banned from making any edits relating to Indian castes across all namespace for a year. I'm sorry. You can appeal this restriction to me as imposing administrator, to the community or to ArbCom. Salvio 15:13, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Regarding this issue, I'd welcome your opinion here, if you wish. Salvio 17:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Your final warning

This is your final warning for violations of WP:WIAPA at the Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2012 December 29 page. "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence" are considered personal attacks, and "The deleting editor is fully aware of the fact that the deletions performed did not conform to any speedy deletion criteria" is an accusation of intentional bad faith editing, just like you made to Orlady recently at AN. Consequently, any further attacks of this sort or of others (e.g. calling me non-human) will result in a request to extend your block log. Nyttend (talk) 22:21, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Umm, that is nonsense. I explained to you twice at your Talk page that the R3 criteria "Implausible redirect" did not apply, and I linked to those discussions at the Deletion review page. You are the one making accusations of intentional bad faith editing. This very "warning" seems perhaps to be intentionally in bad faith. I didn't say yours were in bad faith. But, in plain English, can you try to explain any way in which your deletion edits invoking R3 16 times could have been in good faith? --doncram 22:39, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Very easy. Sixteen times you created implausible redirects with no viable targets, and sixteen times I found them, so sixteen times I deleted them. You're accusing me of doing something in violation of policy despite knowing otherwise, and I know very well that they are in line with policy — but you've provided no evidence that I believe them to be policy violations. Only if I agreed that they were policy violations could I be editing in bad faith. Issues such as making inaccurate accusations based on cursory readings (e.g. accusing me of WP:OWN on Ohio articles based on some Indiana bridges and objecting that an existing page was nonexistent) that has driven off people. Nyttend (talk) 23:41, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - Sitush (talk) 01:46, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Pages for masonic lodges which are about buildings

Doncram, thank you for your note. I will make a note at List of Masonic buildings in the United States. RiverStyx23{<sub>email</sub>} 13:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Another AN/I thread

Hi,
There is another AN/I thread concerning your editing. It is here.
Happy new year... bobrayner (talk) 02:30, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

You have mail!

Regarding a t-shirt nomination :) Jalexander--WMF 02:44, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Help with an interaction ban proposal

It has become blatantly obvious that Nyttend has lost his objectivity in events related to you, and I believe Orlady has done the same. Can you assist me with User:Ryan Vesey/Interaction ban by creating a list of administrative errors that have or have not been rectified as of now, by those two editors related to you? It would be great if you list them on the talk page of that proposal so that I don't edit conflict. Ryan Vesey 17:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the infobox generator

You've mentioned several concerns about the infobox generator in a recent edit at Misplaced Pages:Bot requests. First of all, if you think my infobox generator is deficient or doesn't produce the kind of output you want, feel free to design your own solution, or feel free to not use mine. Frankly, I don't want you using my infobox generator if you're going to keep griping about it. I'm not even sure how the limitations in the infobox generator (which are underlying limitations in the database) relate to your objections about using a start date in a microformat.

About a couple specific points you brought up: I already know about your qualms about the date built versus the beginning of the significant year date range in the database. I've already voiced my opinion that editors should use additional sources, beyond the National Register database, to develop their articles. If a source says that a building like a farmhouse was built in 1758 but didn't become significant until 1776, when some locally famous politician expanded the house and started signing American Revolutionary War documents in there, the database might list 1776 for the significant year. An author using a secondary source besides the infobox generator would know that the farmhouse was built in 1758, and update the infobox accordingly. You, on the other hand, prefer to take the database as the only source, and then inserting these disclaimers saying "was built or has other significance in". In fact, you even accused me once of not knowing the build date of the Floyd B. Olson House, even though I had two other sources saying it was built in 1922.

Also, there are buildings like churches, cathedrals, large commercial buildings, and other major construction projects that span multiple years. Basilica of Saint Mary (Minneapolis) is an example, when the groundbreaking was in 1907, the cornerstone was laid in 1908, the dedication happened in 1913, but they didn't celebrate Mass in there until 1914. And, the interior wasn't even complete until 1926. I would argue that in that case, the dates should be explained in the text (as they are in that article). Having just one field in the infobox isn't always necessary to explain that.

Now, to address some other points that you brought up at WP:BOTREQ that have nothing to do with dates: You allege, "I believe the provider of the NRHP infobox tool is not currently willing to make changes to prevent new bad data from being added." I have been willing to implement requests when they can be implemented correctly and relatively easily, but I know of no method to ensure that information on the database is always accurate. Queen Avenue Bridge is spelled as "Queene" in the database, but I know from experience that the street is spelled "Queen". (It's right after Morgan, Newton, Oliver, and Penn, but before Russell and Sheridan.) You mention, in a different post, "Even very experienced editors WITH access to the NRHP nom document are swayed." Like who? Do you have actual examples, or are you just making an accusation? Like I've said in the past, the infobox generator is there just to retrieve information from the database and to populate the {{Infobox NRHP}} template. It isn't meant to be the only source and the complete output for one article. That requires critical analysis of sources and an ability to determine which sources are more reliable. (I think this made for part of your problem with the Indian caste articles.)

You allege, "It is not a very serious error, but one logical error put in by the NRHP infobox generator is to list architectural styles erroneously as 'Greek Revival, Other, Federal', where 'Other' is logically out of order. The NRHP infobox generator programmer doesn't care to correct that, but rather accepts the random output of an SQL merge of data that happens to put 'Other' in non-logical position." This is the first time I've heard of "Other" being out of position. I would have fixed it if someone had asked me to fix it. If this is your way of asking for an enhancement request or a bug fix, it's a bad way to do so, because I don't usually read all of your contributions or read WP:BOTREQ.

Then you complain, "This kind of judgment is corroborated by there being scads of attacks against me, an experienced editor, for using accurately imprecise language in NRHP articles, e.g. that a person was an architect and/or a builder, or that a given date was a built date or another date of significance, when full NRHP nomination documents are not available but an article exists already or needs to be created for some reason." It's interesting that you get to rule stuff like that as an attack, but it's perfectly OK for you to allege that I just spit out imprecise information and I'm not willing to fix my tools.

I need to cut this short because I have actual work to do this afternoon. And really, I'm not telling you anything new about what I think about the infobox generator or its use in developing NRHP articles, but you refuse to listen to my viewpoints anyway. --Elkman 19:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I have one more thing to say. I'm really rather annoyed that I have to spend this much time talking to you and refuting your claims against me and my work. It takes time from legitimate tasks that I need to do. And, I remember the last time that someone slandered me, and my work, on a different forum. That was a very unpleasant exchange for all involved, especially since a moderator slammed $3,000 in my costuming work as not having "quality and integrity" and work not being found "suitable", and it culminated in me being banned from that forum. So yeah, I take these things pretty seriously. --Elkman 19:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Articles for Creation

As I said earlier, I intend to seek an interaction ban between Orlady and Nyttend and you; however, I think some actions on your part are necessary. I understand that the process is backlogged, but would you be willing to voluntarily submit all of your articles through the Articles for Creation process? This will ensure that editors view your articles before they enter the mainspace, keeping them from being speedy deleted and ensuring that they meet the quality standard expected for Misplaced Pages. Ryan Vesey 19:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the overture. I don't think that my article creations are any problem. There is no problem with articles that I create, and simply having someone else review my articles would not satisfy the editors following me and contending. I am in fact under some kind of review with every article that I create, since that got slapped onto my account sometime previously. When I noticed the exclamation mark that appears on every new article in my edit history, and asked for that review to be removed, my request was noticed by editor Orlady who disputed it with reference to a hate page that Orlady maintains. Of course almost every article that I create is approved quickly, and the occasional prod or speedy delete request is removed pretty quickly.

I think an Arbcom case is necessary and am preparing a request. I do thank you for your interest in seeing to some less-expensive solution. --doncram 00:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Hey doncram, I realise that you are catching up etc but thought you'd better be made aware of this because I think it may be the alleged "hate page" to which you refer above. The outcome might affect the wording of any ArbCom case. - Sitush (talk) 00:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Old Union School

See User:Doncram/Old Union School (Chesterville, Ohio). Please don't include a paraphrase of the phrase you quoted before — you'd quoted from the book's section on the Old Bartlett and Goble Store; the authors of the book only observe that the old school has a Greek Revival appearance. Footnote 3 on the current page isn't accurate, because the school appears at the bottom of page 1076 and continues onto the next page. Nyttend (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Just noticed your request for the talk page. I'm sorry; I left it deleted because I simply didn't think of it. Nyttend (talk) 01:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Disruptive behavior at DRV. Thank you.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Please don't uncollapse the DRV. Sarek restored the talk page a while ago, and I wouldn't have left the above message without undeleting it if it were a redlink. The additional material was your quote and various other information that's all applicable to the Bartlett store. Nyttend (talk) 01:47, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Blocked for 24 hrs

You were clearly edit warring on the DRV page ( ) and know this is not acceptable behavior. I have blocked for 24 hrs to end that.

Any administrator may unblock at any time with my blessings if there are assurances that the edit warring is over... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:53, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Remember where the plot is.

This edit at Deletion Review is almost three times the size of the article that you're having such a kerfuffle about, half of which is categories, tags, and an infobox. With the amount of typing that you've done, you could have written it six or seven times over by now.

And irrespective of whether it was a copyright violation, that sentence that you put in from a book was blatantly wrong on its face, let alone from even a cursory reading of the actual book itself. Did it not occur to you that a public school is not a "commercial building"?

Uncle G (talk) 12:16, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. You can see stuff that I can't. I received an emailed copy of the version of article deleted, but do not have access to the edit history. Just now I searched on a quoted sentence and find my way to access to a full Google book page that shows the quote referred to a different building, yes. Back in September or October, I may have relied upon a lesser snippet, within search results not allowing access to a full page, and it could have been misleading, or I might have simply erred in my editing. So what. There is no way, then or now, that the ten word quote explaining why a given building was deemed notable, is a copyright violation. That kind of quote is eminently appropriate. I also don't think it fair for an administrator to cover his/her tracks by closing an ANI or AFD or other proceeding in a favorable-to-themselves-way (or at all), where they are the responsible party for bad stuff being publicly identified. What mattered there, I think, was more for fellow editors to state clearly to that administrator, that their behavior was unacceptable.

About whether it makes sense for a school to be termed a commercial building, well I think I have seen writers lumping together commercial and public buildings more than once, in differentiating some of an architect's works vs. residential buildings, and I have also seen writers omitting words and phrases and saying things that don't seem to make sense in some way. When I encounter that, I have sometimes used quotes explicitly to address the apparent contradictions within and/or between sources. I think it is very likely that I did receive a garbled snippet in search results that seemed to indicate the school being called a commercial building, while explaining its notability, and that is why I quoted it exactly.

Thanks again, anyhow. --doncram 00:56, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

--doncram 00:56, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Your edit to RFAR

I wish you would have started your request for arbitration in your own user space, or that you would have posted something fully-formed there, instead of starting a skeleton case with a timestamp and then just walking away. Now I'm sitting at work on a Monday afternoon wondering just who exactly you're intending to file arbitration against. I know you like to start articles with just a skeleton of content, but now that you're intending to file something with consequences against editors, you could at least given us some courtesy and let us know who you're targeting. --Elkman 22:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that statement amounts to a personal attack, it is meant in an uncivil mean way to denigrate me and to complain. I wish you were not so angry at me. As a matter of fact I was interrupted and was not able to post my statement before the initial entry was deleted, and now I am going to edit it further before posting, maybe tomorrow. As a matter of fact the statement which I drafted did not name you. I expect that you would comment in any arbcom case but I would hope that disagreement between you and me would not be a major focus there.

Elkman, I am sorry that you took offense at me, and that you seem personally grieved. I believe you mainly took offense over my suggesting--in the midst of an ANI in which I was on trial and you had joined effectively as an attacking party--that I believed you had erred in a mainspace article by believing your infobox generator's code about some built date or some architect vs. builder status, when in fact it turned out you had not erred. I believe i acknowledged promptly then that you had not erred in fact. You then and since have repeatedly accused me of accusing you of lying, which is a gross exageration. I believe your repeating that makes you angry and you believe more and more that I have hurt you in some way. I think lying is a serious matter and I don't make any such accusations lightly. However, I think you took offense back then erroneously, and then others tried to make it worse, in fact, then and/or later, by egging you on and by interrupting when I attempted to question the particulars. I believe I pointed out that you did not provide diffs and could not support your view over what had happened, at least one later time, but another highly involved editor butted in to interrupt meaningful communication. I am sorry we did not successfully talk that out better.

Can I ask you, what do you want from me, or what do you want from an arbcom case? I am rather surprised that you are following me so closely and are so wrapped up. I am seriously asking you this here. I am not meaning to taunt you or toy with you. What do you want from me? And, is there any way that you could see us resolving anything, in any mediation or any other forum besides arbcom? What if we were to meet in person? Seriously, that would be a possibility. I don't know what you want. I don't perceive you to be a mean person; I can't imagine you thinking me to be a mean person if we actually met.

I don't welcome anyone else commenting here, and I may remove others comments. --doncram 00:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I removed your request for arbitration due to the fact that it had nothing more than a time stamp for over 2.5 hours. If you require assistance with setting up a RfARB please feel free to ask a clerk. --Guerillero | My Talk 05:39, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what i understood at the time, and I made a point to save my draft off-line before trying to post it, after i returned from a long interruption. Perhaps it is just as well, perhaps some other conversation would be useful first. --doncram 05:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Arbcom

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#User:Doncram and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:49, 8 January 2013 (UTC)