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Revision as of 21:37, 16 January 2013

"I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people." Where this user currently is, the time is 16:06, Thursday 26 December 2024. This is the user talk page for AGK. You can also send this user an internal email. I have taken 68,260 actions on Misplaced Pages: 54,362 edits, 3,301 deletions, 2,661 blocks, and 7,936 protections. You are welcome to reverse any of them, except if my reason mentioned "checkuser", "arbitration", or "oversight".

• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Dissapointment

I'm rather perplexed in your dissapointment. When an editor reaches 3RR on an article and then a ip editor subs in what is a reasonable editor to expect? Do you expect that if I asked Insomesia about edting logged out that they would willingly admit to crossing 3RR? In fact anyone reasonably familiar with Insomesia would know that they game the system, and did so on the article in question. Your logging of your dissapointment in the SPI was most decidedly uncool.  little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer  02:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

He did not breach the limit of 3RR. Moreover, he made no attempt to hide the edit summary of his "fourth" revert. My expression of disappointment was a proportional response to your failure to do the professional, sensible thing by simply asking Insomesia not to do this again in future. AGK 08:56, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

LGR you have a lot a nerve accusing anyone of gaming things, and I'll add my astonishment that you went to this trouble and didn't even bother to notify me. The edit in question, by the way was removed by consensus after you and Belchfire continued to argue that consensus was to keep it there and tag-teamed to install it. I insisted we actually get consensus before re-adding. The good news is that the entire article is being looked at by more editors. Insomesia (talk) 13:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

@AGK Going with your charitable premise that Insomesia accidentally logged out to perform the edit, I can see how you can draw that conclusion. Prior behavioral evidence suggests otherwise. If you think the "fourth" revert was not an attempt to dance around 3RR, then one of us miscounted. Regards.  little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer  15:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Rosetta, 3RR is "three reverts per article per day". A day is 24 hours. Insomesia's reverts were dated as follows:

1. 13:15, 30 December 2012
2. 22:53, 30 December 2012
3. 01:42, 1 January 2013

The anonymous revert was dated 03:10, 1 January 2013. There are 31 days in December, so no four reverts took place within the same twenty-four hours. Have I miscounted, or have you?

In any event, as an administrator (when I was found at AN3, as I no longer am) I entirely disregarded the three-revert rule, finding it a silly rule that caused more drama than anything else. However, that is immaterial: you wrongly suggested that Insomesia had, as a motive for socking, a need to subvert the three-revert rule. My point was that he did not, which has an effect on how we must consider the allegation that he deliberately edited while logged-out. Even now that he states the anonymous edit was not him, I am happy to believe him, and I counsel you to do likewise. We must assume the best of our colleagues, until they give us reason to do otherwise. If you cannot assume the best, then I kindly submit that you are too impassioned to edit the article, or with the contributors, in question—and that you ought to edit another one for a while. I do not expect you to answer me on that point; I merely hope you give serious thought to it. Regards, AGK 15:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

My personal views in the article in question are probably exactly in line of that with Insomesia, so passion has nothing to do with my edits. AGF can only be taken so far. I wouldn't expect someone not familiar with the particulars to see it, nor would I want them too, but I would expect them to understand that others may have cause to have lost good faith. I'll try and keep your concern noted for the future. Thanks.   little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer  15:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

RFAR case

I have made some comments about the naming of the case that I think you should consider. Seems that this will only really focus on conduct relating to one topic area and thus I have suggested a name that would better reflect that. An editor's reasonable desire to not have an ArbCom case named especially for them should be considered with this in mind. When you have a viable alternative name that can avoid systemic bias against a single editor then I think it is preferable to go with that alternative name.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 20:57, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• AGK - Sorry, this is just my heartfelt apology for my error and for being such a nosey so and so; my lesson is truly learned I'll go away now..... SagaciousPhil - Chat 21:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• For my part, the problem with your suggested alternative of NRHP is that it is inaccurate: the case isn't merely about that topic area, but about that among others. If there was a single obvious, brief title then I'd happily use it as the case title; regretfully, there is not, so picking the editor who is the one common denominator in all the disputes is what we shall go with. Thanks for your comments.

  Phil, I confess I've no idea why you've left that comment. Where were you nosey? Why are you apologising? (If I've forgotten some recent interaction between us, please enlighten me and forigve my density.) Regards to you both, AGK 21:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Busted, AGK. Now we know you don't read your talkpage history! Bishonen | talk 23:01, 11 January 2013 (UTC).

Ahh. Don't worry about it, Phil. For all Apple's hype, iOS has to be one of the fiddliest interfaces ever. Bishonen, who has time to read their talk page history? And thanks for catching me up :-). AGK 23:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Time? Time? It's my favourite reading on Misplaced Pages! Beats the talkpage itself by some margin. Bishonen | talk 12:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC).

PSY article no longer functioning properly

Hi there. A few hours ago an admin redirected/moved the PSY article to Psy. Apparently the redirect wasn't done properly as all other links to PSY now land in the disambiguation page. Also, the PSY_(entertainer) link leads to the dis page. I don't know much about redirects and how to correct them. Could you please take a look into this? Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 11:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

It sounds as though you have found some double redirects. I'm afraid I don't have time to look into this in more detail, but there is some useful advice within that link on resolving such a problem. However, the administrator that moved the page should have did this himself, particularly if he (or she) is moving a Misplaced Pages article and not a page in a less important namespace. Regards, AGK 11:51, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks for that informative link. Amsaim (talk) 12:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

LCahill SPI

Hi, in Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/LCahill you wrote: LCahill is probably editing while logged-out, but he is doing nothing actually illicit. Therefore, we here at SPI can do nothing helpful with this complaint. I recommend that you take the matter to an administrators' noticeboard and request that LCahill's anonymous editing be investigated by a group of administrators and that the community consider sanctioning him. This confuses me - if he is doing nothing illicit, then what would the community sanctions be for? And I have shown that the vast majority of his contributions were copyvios; wouldn't that be illicit? Can the community sanction him for that? I was under the impression that the proper venue next would be WP:CCI but that is a bridge I wanted to cross when I came to it. Elizium23 (talk) 13:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I think I misspoke. When I said that we at SPI can do nothing for this guy, I meant that we can, but that the matter is better handled by the ANI folk. This matter transcends mere anonymous sock-puppetry and needs an in-depth review. AGK 14:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Doubt about formal mediation

Hello, AGK. I made a request for formal mediation yesterday. It seems that the other parties will simply ignore the request. They are supposed to accept the "invitation" or else the request will be declined, right? What happens after that? What can I do the settle the dispute? Regards, --Lecen (talk) 12:21, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I have reminded the two other disputants (on their talk pages) that the Misplaced Pages community requires its editors to engage in dispute resolution and discussion when their edits to an article are challenged. I have also invited the disputants to respond to the mediation request, though I cannot compel them to agree to mediation—and if they do not consent to mediation, you will have to find another way to resolve your disagreement. Thanks for getting in touch with your concerns, and I hope my two comments goes some way to helping make progress with your dispute. Regards, AGK 15:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I have tried every legitimate way to resolve the problem. They did nothing. The editor who volunteered as third opinion remarked that they "when pressed for sources, they tend to obfuscate and stonewall (TLDR, etc)." You're practically telling me that I'll have to start engaging in edit war to call the attention of the community. I want to resolve this in the correct way. I am begging you to accept the mediation, even if the other two editors ignore the request (they will). It will force them to talk, to work within the community. All I want is a chance to present my view and let someone neutral decide. Please, I need the help of the Mediation Committee. I understand that there can only be a mediation when everyone agrees but there is always a first time to change rules. Please, accept the mediation request. --Lecen (talk) 16:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

A mediation case involving one party would be like running a three-legged race on your own. It would not work. If the disputants do not consent to mediation, then mediation will not occur. I am hopeful that they will consent, but if they do not and you do engage in revert warring then you will be blocked from editing by an administrator. AGK 16:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

MarshalN20 response

Dear AGK, thank you very much for the note you left on my talk page. I am currently busy with work & studies to provide a thorough response, so I will provide a quick list:

1. Lecen submitted the RfM yesterday (from my side of the world). About a day has passed, and yet the user has been frantically badgering people with demands of action (, , , and ). His distraught actions hold no more common sense than a squirrel looking for a nut.
2. Lecen incorrectly claims that I am a user "involved" in the dispute. My only contributions to the article include a copy-edit of the lead () and a reversion of Lecen's vandalism ().
3. The dispute itself is between Lecen and Cambalachero. I am a third party to the dispute. Lecen claims that I am not a third party because I am in favor of Cambalachero's point of view.
4. The people in the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard were mostly (if not all) against Lecen. He conveniently tries to ignore these things, but I think it would be good to make a list of them here:
   1. Go Phightins (Mediator, ): "I advocated your position and refuted his , for the most part, in the DRN."
   2. Amadscientist (commentator, ): "y intitial concern is balance by Lecen. The editor seems to have more than a less than disinterested POV on the subject and it does certainly show in the editors remarks, posts and requests. The first source I found is also the first source prsented in the Third Opinion and appears terribly cherry picked."
   3. Binksternet (commentator, ): "Use WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV to name those who say Rosas was a dictator, and to name those who say he was something else. I don't think it is fruitful to demand that historians be found who say directly 'Rosas was not a dictator'."
   4. Wdford (commentator, ): "It seems to me just from this thread that a number of sources do not regard Rosas as a dictator. On that basis alone, I feel we should have a statement that "some see him as a dictator and others as something else". I would recommend that we therefore mention that both opinions exist re Rosas, and hopefully the article contains enough background as to let the reader understand both perspectives in his original historical context."

Based on all this points, I see no need for any further mediation. Plenty of third opinions have already been provided (including my own) to the dispute between between Lecen and Cambalachero. Lecen asked for third opinions, he got them, and yet continues to game the system looking for someone to agree with him. I kindly request you, AGK, to please stop Lecen from WP:GAMING the system. Regards.--MarshalN20 | 21:37, 16 January 2013 (UTC)