Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
::I think the article is valid - the reaction to her death is blanket coverage on the UK media, and has been gleefully anticipated by many for years. However, I do agree that the idea was to change the reactions section to prose - not the "flagfest" we now have. --] (]) 08:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
::I think the article is valid - the reaction to her death is blanket coverage on the UK media, and has been gleefully anticipated by many for years. However, I do agree that the idea was to change the reactions section to prose - not the "flagfest" we now have. --] (]) 08:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
:::I think the flagfest is problematic as it puts too much emphasises on state leaders , compared to the UK, friends, family, colleagues. We also have the Soviet Union/Russia problem per ]. I think there's a certain irony that on a day flags are put at half mast for respect, flags are put out here. I have no problem if someone converts to prose. Also, this is a ] issue. I see good work has now been done removing the flags on Chávez. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 10:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
:::I think the flagfest is problematic as it puts too much emphasises on state leaders , compared to the UK, friends, family, colleagues. We also have the Soviet Union/Russia problem per ]. I think there's a certain irony that on a day flags are put at half mast for respect, flags are put out here. I have no problem if someone converts to prose. Also, this is a ] issue. I see good work has now been done removing the flags on Chávez. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 10:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
:This ties discussion happens everythime. We cannot neutrally pcik and choose which reactions are notable. All official reactions are notable (even though they may not LOOK noce to some editors) and have encyclopaedic value as students of IR would then see each states reaction to measure their foreign policy, regardles of what they look like (ie- same old condolence)] (]) 10:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lincolnshire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Lincolnshire on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LincolnshireWikipedia:WikiProject LincolnshireTemplate:WikiProject LincolnshireLincolnshire
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cold War, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Cold War on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cold WarWikipedia:WikiProject Cold WarTemplate:WikiProject Cold WarCold War
This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Wait a couple of days and see how things pan out. There have already been street parties, and lots of negative press about her, that in itself could be enough to warrant a separate article.Martin451 (talk) 01:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I understand that there have been street parties and that there has been negative coverage. I would be incredibly astonished if there was enough of that in the next few days to warrant an entire article, though - and I'm Scottish! Wouldn't it be better to merge the pages now and split them if it becomes necessary? Seems odd to create the split in anticipation of something which may not happen (escalation of parties). Zcbeaton (talk) 01:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Ding-Dong!_The_Witch_Is_Dead has gone up to 27 in the iTune charts. I don't think some people realise the strength of feeling about Maggy, both for and against her. I know of many people who will be celebrating, and they are not even coal miners or steel workers.Martin451 (talk) 01:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
No, just normal people. Thatcher was responsible for a big change in this country in the 1980's many people lost out, many gained. Many gained and thought they lost out. There are whole towns and villages that hate her.Martin451 (talk) 02:06, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Indeed. I'm very aware of that. I just disagree that the hate in question is strong enough to warrant an article - even the iTunes chart ascendance of that song might not be significant enough to warrant a sentence in this one. Zcbeaton (talk) 02:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Merge. There is insufficient unique content to warrant separate articles. A second article may be broken off later if there is a content explosion. WWGB (talk) 02:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
No mention of the jubilations
The mention we had previously of the street parties and such has been removed. I'm not sure whether this was as a mark of respect but these were a major cultural reaction and certainly notable with regards to her death. I think they should be reinstated. Mtaylor848 (talk) 09:33, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I apologise, there is a mention of it, but it is very minimal. I don't know what consensus is but I would say this is worthy of its own section. Mtaylor848 (talk) 09:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
i dont think the jubilations of her death should be included...... The lady is barely cold in her grave! Thios isvery disrespectful. I am deffinatly not a supporter of thatcher and was not in the 80's but we must all remember that she is a mother and a grandmother and a human being however questionable her policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.94.197 (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes. Misplaced Pages has to be neutral. If it includes a reaction section, then it should also include comments by detractors as well as fans if the detractors have a strong enough voice.Martin451 (talk) 17:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
It is our mission to report this in an encyclopaedic manner be that respectful or otherwise. I've tried sourcing a photograph of one of the parties but a freely available one doesn't seem to be yet available. If it doesn't I'd suggest we consider a fair-use file. Mtaylor848 (talk) 18:16, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
LGBT community
I've removed a reference to the LGBT community in the article in the section detailing those "less sympathetic reactions". The referenced linked only to a single comment by Peter Tatchell who I do not think can be said to have been speaking on behalf of the whole LGBT community. If more comments from more notable LGBT rights campaigners say something, then perhaps it can be re-added, but a single comment by a single person isn't sufficient. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chid12 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
State Funeral
i have edited the mention that she will have a similar funeral to Princess Diana but not have a state funeral. Diana did not have a state funeral and had a ceremonial one like Margaret Thatcher will have on 17-04-2013. The lines of the funeral will be more like the Queen mothers who was also given a ceremonial funeral with military honours which is the plan for the late PM. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.94.197 (talk) 13:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
It'd probably be better to use a tag that actually says what's intended, e.g. to be selective. I'll look for a better one. Adam Cuerden15:31, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
You seem to be suggesting that there is a WP:NPOV issue. It seems balanced to me. Isn't the issue more that there is an indiscriminate amount of official reaction being added? --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I've replaced it with {{Over-quotation}} which gets the point across, I think. Once things settle down a bit, we can start work on making it a bit more prose-driven, but there's no point until things stabilise a bit. Just remove the ones that don't add anything. Adam Cuerden15:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Seems more like what should be achieved. I've removed the "This is an incomplete list, you can help by expanding it" for the same reason! --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:39, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Off-hand, I think about the only particularly relevant country not on there already is Argentina, but we can wait on the Argentine President, who hasn't made a statement yet. Some reporting on general Argentine feeling, e.g. , which might be good for contextualizing any quote when we start prosifying, but I, for one, say let's wait for something more official before we try to add Argentina now. Adam Cuerden15:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I think Cristina Fernández de Kirchner has made a point of not saying anything, that's the impression I got from the press about her when looking for a statement. No matter what she says, it will be wrong. Undue weight is being given to this section because there are very few details to fill in about the funeral, and because she was a top world leader for 11 years, and one of the most divisive leaders of Britian for a long time. It is also the result of the community wanting this here, rather than a separate article.Martin451 (talk) 17:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The articles are bound to be different in nature. Hugo Chavez was an incumbant leader when he died whcih obligated a reaction from heads of state all over the world. Thatcher left the scene decades ago. Mtaylor848 (talk) 18:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I suspect the sensible thing is to document the initial responses now; add in the funeral once it happens. It'll look a lot more balanced in two weeks, but we'll have to leave it unbalanced for now or the funeral description will swamp it. Adam Cuerden19:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I know I should resist - if we're listing UK party leaders like UKIP, where's the forgotten Nick Clegg, and the Green one? We're missing Peter Robinson but rightly have Gerry Adams. How about Russia and China instead of Bulgaria?! undue weight.. hmm....after checking the voting on Chávez, a Bulgaria opposition party got to play, beats Eurovision. Widefox; talk23:53, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
(International) Inclusion criteria: how about: G12 + Premiers from related topics (e.g. mentioned in Bio) + major female Premiers + supranational? Widefox; talk00:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I think this entire article could well be in breach of WP:UNDUE and WP:RECENT. The woman was 87, for crying out loud, so it's been a matter of time. She wasn't assassinated, and there's not going to be a state funeral, so that should be the end of it. All we're going to get is a whole bunch of rhetoric about how fantastic (or catastrophic) she and her brand of politics were. -- Ohconfucius 01:16, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand the point about her age; if anything, the fact that there are many statements and reactions despite her having left official positions many years ago indicates historical significance. Personally, I also find that direct quoatitions are working fine in this setting (allthough I shall not oppose a transformation to prose). Iselilja (talk) 08:31, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I think the article is valid - the reaction to her death is blanket coverage on the UK media, and has been gleefully anticipated by many for years. However, I do agree that the idea was to change the reactions section to prose - not the "flagfest" we now have. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I think the flagfest is problematic as it puts too much emphasises on state leaders , compared to the UK, friends, family, colleagues. We also have the Soviet Union/Russia problem per WP:FLAGS. I think there's a certain irony that on a day flags are put at half mast for respect, flags are put out here. I have no problem if someone converts to prose. Also, this is a colour of the bike sheds issue. I see good work has now been done removing the flags on Chávez. Widefox; talk10:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
This ties discussion happens everythime. We cannot neutrally pcik and choose which reactions are notable. All official reactions are notable (even though they may not LOOK noce to some editors) and have encyclopaedic value as students of IR would then see each states reaction to measure their foreign policy, regardles of what they look like (ie- same old condolence)Lihaas (talk) 10:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Inappropriate article
This article looks more like a news bulletin and to my opinion is absolutely not encyclopedic. At best, some of its contents can be merged in the right section in the Margaret Thatcher article. Gil_mo (talk) 08:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
.svg){kind=small}
