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Revision as of 22:22, 19 April 2013 editBorn2cycle (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,496 edits →Requested move: clarify← Previous edit Revision as of 22:23, 19 April 2013 edit undoTimtrent (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers131,430 edits →Requested move: typoNext edit →
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* ] → {{no redirect|Amanda Todd}} * ] → {{no redirect|Amanda Todd}}
– First, the only topic associated with each of these proposed titles is the topic of the respective article, as each proposed title currently redirects to that article. Hence, the "Suicide of " portion is more precision than necessary in each of the current titles, per ].<p>Second, the topic of each of these articles is the person named in the proposed titles (all but one of the articles has a photo of the person and lists date of birth as well as death, etc., just like any bio). Yes, the reason each is notable is because of events associated with each respective suicide, but the fact remains that reliable sources deem ''the person'' to be notable, therefore the article topic in each is ''the person'', not just the suicide, and the article title should reflect that.<p>This is no different than an article about a person made notable by one particular achievement (perhaps a book, a piece of art, a discovery or invention). Whatever it is, that ''one thing'' makes ''the person'' notable, per appropriate citations in reliable sources, and so we have an article about ''that person''. Just because the ''one thing'' happens to be suicide (or death circumstances in general) does not justify different treatment of the article topic or title. ]2] 22:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC) – First, the only topic associated with each of these proposed titles is the topic of the respective article, as each proposed title currently redirects to that article. Hence, the "Suicide of " portion is more precision than necessary in each of the current titles, per ].<p>Second, the topic of each of these articles is the person named in the proposed titles (all but one of the articles has a photo of the person and lists date of birth as well as death, etc., just like any bio). Yes, the reason each is notable is because of events associated with each respective suicide, but the fact remains that reliable sources deem ''the person'' to be notable, therefore the article topic in each is ''the person'', not just the suicide, and the article title should reflect that.<p>This is no different than an article about a person made notable by one particular achievement (perhaps a book, a piece of art, a discovery or invention). Whatever it is, that ''one thing'' makes ''the person'' notable, per appropriate citations in reliable sources, and so we have an article about ''that person''. Just because the ''one thing'' happens to be suicide (or death circumstances in general) does not justify different treatment of the article topic or title. ]2] 22:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

*'''Oppose, and speedy close''', for the reasons stated above in the previously closed nomination. This is an exercise in ]. If at first you do not succeed, try again and again and again until you wear your opposition out. If you objected to the previous closure that needs to be taken to another forum to handle the aspects of the closure. We do not nominate the same set of articles for the same thing again and again and again. ] (]) 22:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

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Untitled

Added a referance and removed no sources tag. (Neostinker 19:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC))

Requested move - withdrawn

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Technical 13 (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

– A discussion on my talk page got me wondering if these articles fail WP:CRIME, as the victim would not independently be notable? I'm pretty sure that if the sources are available, and the person had something dedicated in their name, then that may qualify for notability. However, unless there is a valid reason to disambiguate these articles, they should be just the persons name, as the WP:PRECISION section of WP:TITLE suggests. Technical 13 (talk) 15:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

  • Speedy oppose - This is a humongous multi-move on something so simple (or complex). I suggest that you withdraw this request and then raise this in WP:VPP. --George Ho (talk) 16:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Absolutely, categorically not. Speedy close Such articles are not biographies. There have been many such discussions over time, and all discussions have been closed in favour of the title Suicide of Foo for very good reasons: the people are not of themselves notable. Their death is notable. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. These are notable suicides, not notable individuals (and it's a similar situation with most "Murder of . . ." articles). The wording here sums it up well enough. Rivertorch (talk) 17:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
    • I have no problem withdrawing my proposal at this time. There are just so many forums and this seemed like to be the one that fit the best. Should I raise my issues (details here) on WP:VPP as George suggests, on WP:VPR, on WP:N, or someplace else? They all have redirect pages from "foo" to "suicide of foo", WP:PRECISION says if there is no conflict of names, and the name is available, it should be just "foo". Why would these incidents be notable but the people that the incident is about not be? Perhaps a new section needs to be added to the general notability section that protects these "suicide of ..." and "murder of ..." articles as being notable because the incident was notable. I have no problem leaving the redirects from the "suicide of ..." pages to the persons article. I'm all about discussion and consensus on this, which is why I proposed the move instead of just being WP:BOLD and moving things. Technical 13 (talk) 17:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
      • Because notability is not inherited; a person doesn't become notable (in the sense of requiring their own separate biographical article) because they were involved in a notable incident, even one so intimately connected to them as this. Events can be notable, but if the people involved in them aren't notable in their own right, there's no sense in automatically judging them to require a whole new article which will mostly be a duplicate of the event's article, since they're not notable for anything else. This is all in policy already (in things like WP:1E or WP:CRIME); I don't think any changes are necessary, really.
  • Oppose, per my comment above (and others' comments, too) Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:24, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Leave it alone. T13, you've been reminded elsewhere to focus on constructive editing of Article space. This is not helping. Perhaps somebody uninvolved can invoke WP:SNOW if T13 doesn't self-withdraw this in good time. —Sladen (talk) 17:56, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
    • I've already suggested above that I'm not opposed to withdrawing the request; however, I would like to understand it better. I've taken some time to skim over a few of these articles, and most of them now have "something" named after them and some even have legislation named after them. That being the case, how are the people now not notable? Technical 13 (talk) 18:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Discussion about closure

Note that an editor decided unilaterally to revert this closure, made because the nominator had withdrawn it. That is not the appropriate mechanism. If the closure is disagreed with please take the discussion elsewhere. WP:IDONTLIKEIT must not apply to closures. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:44, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I believe you are mistaken. Per Misplaced Pages:Requested_moves/Closing_instructions, only a nominator can withdraw and close an RM discussion:
However, it is fine for a discussion participant to close a requested move in the following circumstances:
...
  • If the nominator wishes to withdraw a proposal about which no one has yet commented, or which is unanimously opposed. In this case, the nominator may close the discussion as "withdrawn".
When George Ho closed the above discussion as "withdrawn", that was an invalid and highly premature close, as he was not the nominator. So I reverted that close accordingly, with this comment. You then reverted my revert, apparently under the mistaken assumption that the original close by George Ho was legitimate.

I and perhaps others would like to participate in this discussion. This is precisely why only the nominator is allowed to withdraw and close. Involved editors opposed to the proposal such as you and George should most certainly not be closing it. --B2C 21:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

  • Note replaced George's signature with mine to clarify the issue. If after the discussion on WP:VPP is completed, I may request that "some" of these pages still be moved because I honestly feel that some of them have become notable enough to warrant them being on a page by just their name. As I said in that discussion, the wording on the documentation page for {{Move-multi}} led me to believe that a bot would come through and copy the nomination to each of the pages and each one would either be agreed that there is enough to warrant the move or not on their own and I did not read it as an all or nothing. I apologize for the confusion and hope that me putting my signature on the withdrawn is enough to satisfy all at this point. Technical 13 (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
    • As to your concern about not being able to participate in the discussion, I encourage you to continue to discuss it on the WP:VPP forum. I will not likely comment much more on that discussion that I've been "warned" that any further involvement in the discussion will likely get be indef blocked again, and I wish to avoid that at this time. Technical 13 (talk) 21:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
      • Well, if you did not intend to propose to actually move each of these, I can understand withdrawing. But I'm not convinced a strong case cannot be made for each. The title of an article about someone who committed suicide should not be "Suicide of ..." unless the article is exclusively about the suicide, which I don't think it ever is. --B2C 21:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
        • I did intend to propose to actually move each of these; however, I intended to propose it based on each of the individuals own notability (as I believe that most of them now have notability that supersedes their suicide) and not as a group because I don't think that they should be "Suicide of ..." Technical 13 (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
          • Well, if you think each should be moved for the same reason (each individual's own notability), then the group move is fine. We should not have a dozen or more of these discussions separately. --B2C 21:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

– First, the only topic associated with each of these proposed titles is the topic of the respective article, as each proposed title currently redirects to that article. Hence, the "Suicide of " portion is more precision than necessary in each of the current titles, per WP:AT.

Second, the topic of each of these articles is the person named in the proposed titles (all but one of the articles has a photo of the person and lists date of birth as well as death, etc., just like any bio). Yes, the reason each is notable is because of events associated with each respective suicide, but the fact remains that reliable sources deem the person to be notable, therefore the article topic in each is the person, not just the suicide, and the article title should reflect that.

This is no different than an article about a person made notable by one particular achievement (perhaps a book, a piece of art, a discovery or invention). Whatever it is, that one thing makes the person notable, per appropriate citations in reliable sources, and so we have an article about that person. Just because the one thing happens to be suicide (or death circumstances in general) does not justify different treatment of the article topic or title. B2C 22:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

  • Oppose, and speedy close, for the reasons stated above in the previously closed nomination. This is an exercise in WP:POINT. If at first you do not succeed, try again and again and again until you wear your opposition out. If you objected to the previous closure that needs to be taken to another forum to handle the aspects of the closure. We do not nominate the same set of articles for the same thing again and again and again. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
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