Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 10:23, 24 April 2013

Stormfighter14 (talk) 19:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC) Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Hi, I am Jingiby. I realized you have changed here the article Bulgarians, claiming: Croats and Slovaks are genetically closer to the bulgarians according to that source. Can you clarify according to which source, and closer then who. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 18:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Well in that source 65 it shows they are closer to us than the serbs. It is right that the serbs are included as they are related anthropologically and genetically however croats and slovaks are closer. I think the croats are the second closest. The article sounds mediterranean orientated and it should be changed as bulgarians are not mediterraneans, we are a mixture of south europeans, slavs and germanic people. Bulgarians and hungarians should be the closest as we share so much culture and racial heritage. Bulgarians are white europeans and that fact isn't even mentioned in this article which in fact is horrendous.

Please, I can not see a confirmation of your claims in that article. Can you point out the page I can find this comparative information. Jingiby (talk) 18:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I said source 65. the claims are proven. What I want to know is why does this article have to be so mediterranean orientated and anti white? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.2.237 (talk) 18:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I did not find anything in that source confirming your claims. If you claim something, you must prove it with reliable and exact sources, cite page and so on. Misplaced Pages is not a forum. Please, check here: Genes mirror geography within Europe, John Novembre et al. Nature. 2008 November 6; 456(7218): 98–101. This is a relatively new study and it is based on new genetic tests. It confirms that geography is leading for genetical vicinity of the peoples of Europe. It is available, a map which clearly shows that neither Croats nor the Slovaks are genetically too close to the Bulgarians. As you know, their states are also geographically distant from Bulgaria. Check here, the map please. If you can not prove your claims, I am going to revert your edit, as personal opinion. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Misplaced Pages:

• Introduction
• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• How to write a great article

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 18:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, again. The recent edit that you made to the page Bulgarians has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive, because you didn't provide a reliable source. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Please use the sandbox for testing any edits; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing for further information. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 05:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Bulgarians are not mediterranean!§

Please do not introduce incorrect information into articles, and do not remove correct info from them, as you did to Bulgarians. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted. If you believe the information you added was correct, please cite references or sources or discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them again. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Please stop. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 05:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Bulgarian DNA

Bulgarians are largely related to Mediterranean, i.e. Southern European poulations:

• Distributions of HLA class I alleles and haplotypes in Bulgarians – contribution to understanding the origin of the population. M. Ivanova, P. Spassova, A. Michailova, E. NaumovaArticle first published online: 23 DEC 2001: HLA class I profile of Bulgarians has been compared to other European and Mediterranean populations of common historical background in order to clarify more precisely the origin of our population. Genetic distances, phylogenetic trees and correspondence analyses show that the Bulgarian population is more closely related to the Italian, the Mediterranean, the Armenian and the Romanian population than to the other East and West European population.
• Sena Karachanak, Valeria Carossa, Desislava Nesheva, Anna Olivieri, Maria Pala, Baharak Hooshiar Kashani, Viola Grugni, Vincenza Battaglia, Alessandro Achilli, Yordan Yordanov, Angel S. Galabov, Ornella Semino, Draga Toncheva, and Antonio Torroni. "Bulgarians vs the other European populations: a mitochondrial DNA perspective." International Journal of Legal Medicine (released electronically in advance of print publication, June 15, 2011).: The observed pattern of mtDNA variation indicates that the Bulgarian mitochondrial pool is geographically homogeneous across the country, and that is characterized by an overall extremely high frequency of western Eurasian lineages. In the principal component analysis, Bulgarians locate in an intermediate position between Eastern European and Mediterranean populations, which is in agreement with historical events. Thus, while the Mediterranean legacy could be attributed to the Thracians, indigenous people that firstly inhabited the Balkans.
• M. Ivanova, E. Rozemuller, N. Tyufekchiev, A. Michailova, M. Tilanus, and E. Naumova. "HLA polymorphism in Bulgarians defined by high-resolution typing methods in comparison with other populations." Tissue Antigens 60:6 (December 2002): pages 496-504. Abstract excerpts: Abstract excerpts: "This is further supported by the analysis of HLA class I haplotypes in Bulgarians. Most of them are also common in Europe. However their frequency pattern in Bulgarians is similar to the South European populations. The presence of some rare alleles and haplotypes indicated Asian genetic inflow. On the basis of HLA class I profile and supported by historical and anthropological data, we suggest that the Bulgarian population is characterized by the features of the Southern European anthropological type."
• Fulvio Cruciani, Roberta La Fratta, Beniamino Trombetta, Piero Santolamazza, Daniele Sellitto, Eliane Beraud Colomb, Jean-Michel Dugoujon, Federica Crivellaro, Tamara Benincasa, Roberto Pascone, Pedro Moral, Elizabeth Watson, Bela Melegh, Guido Barbujani, Silvia Fuselli, Giuseppe Vona, Boris Zagradisnik, Guenter Assum, Radim Brdicka, Andrey I. Kozlov, Georgi D. Efremov, Alfredo Coppa, Andrea Novelletto, and Rosaria Scozzari. "Tracing Past Human Male Movements in Northern/Eastern Africa and Western Eurasia: New Clues from Y-Chromosomal Haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12." Molecular Biology and Evolution 24(6) (June 2007): pages 1300-1311. First published online on March 10, 2007. This large study of populations from Europe, Asia, and Africa confirmed that all signs point to the Y-DNA haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a1) having come from northeastern Africa originally. Naturally, due to geographical proximity to Africa, E haplogroups are more common in southern Europe than northern Europe. 204 Bulgarian males had their Y-DNA data incorporated into "Table 1: Frequencies (%) of the Y-chromosome E-M78 sub-haplogroups in the 81 populations analyzed" which says that 16.67% of them (that is, 34 out of the 204) placed into E-M78, 0.49% (just one person) into E-V12*, and 16.18% (33 individuals) into E-V13. Jingiby (talk) 07:49, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

From all Slavic populations Bulgarians are closer to the Macedonian Slavs, Serbians and Bosniaks then to the rest, including Croats, Slovenians and Slovaks

• "Y-STR variation among Slavs: evidence for the Slavic homeland in the middle Dnieper basin", Krzysztof Rębała, Alexei I. Mikulich, Iosif S. Tsybovsky, Daniela Siváková, Zuzana Džupinková, Aneta Szczerkowska-Dobosz, Zofia Szczerkowska, Journal of Human Genetics, May 2007, Volume 52, Issue 5, pp 406-414: “Two genetically distant groups of Slavic populations were revealed: one encompassing all Western-Slavic, Eastern-Slavic, and two Southern-Slavic populations (Slovenians and Croats), and one encompassing all remaining Southern Slavs.” According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools, and this similarity can be traced to an origin in middle Dnieper basin of the Ukraine. However, some southern Slavic populations such as Serbians, Slav Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Bosniaks are separated from the tight cluster of the rest of the Slavic populations. According to the authors this phenomenon is explained by “the contribution of the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs.”Jingiby (talk) 08:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
• "Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns" E. Bosch, F. Calafell1, A. Gonzalez-Neira1,, C. Flaiz, E. Mateu1, H.-G. Scheil3, W. Huckenbeck, L. Efremovska5, I. Mikerezi, N. Xirotiris, C. Grasa, H. Schmidt and D. Comas, Annals of Human Genetics (2006) 70",459–487: When the correspondence analysis based on Y-chromosome haplogroup frequencies was performed with the whole set of populations for comparison, all the Balkan populations analysed in the present study, plus the additional Macedonians, Albanians, Italians, Greeks and the two Turkish samples clustered more or less together, separated from Croatians, Polish, Ukrainians and Czech-Slovakians and the Hungarian sample, that formed a more differentiated group.

Genetic map of Europe - genes vary as a function of distance

• Genes mirror geography within Europe John Novembre, Toby Johnson, Katarzyna Bryc, Zoltán Kutalik, Adam R. Boyko, Adam Auton, Amit Indap, Karen S. King, Sven Bergmann, Matthew R. Nelson, Matthew Stephens, and Carlos D. Bustamante; Nature. 2008 November 6; 456(7218): 98–101: "Despite low average levels of genetic differentiation among Europeans, we find a close correspondence between genetic and geographic distances; indeed, a geographical map of Europe arises naturally as an efficient two-dimensional summary of genetic variation in Europeans...In addition, the results are relevant to the prospects of genetic ancestry testing; an individual’s DNA can be used to infer their geographic origin with surprising accuracy–often to within a few hundred kilometres" The limits to the resolution of these sorts of methods are likely to be very fine indeed; the authors note that, even with this panel, they’re able to distinguish with some confidence individuals that are from the German, Italian, and French-speaking parts of Switzerland. With full resequencing data, it’s likely that even the precise village of origin of an individual will be predictable from genetics alone. After such conclusions is very hard to belive that as you claim Croats, Slovaks, Poles, Hungarians etc., are closer genetically to Bulgarians, then their closest neighbours: Macedonian Slavs, Serbs and Bosniaks from the South Slavs or Greeks, Albanians and Ronmanians from their non-Slavic neighbours, because of their geographical, i.e. genetical proximity. Jingiby (talk) 14:18, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Well what you have done is vandalism as well actually because you have removed the reference that I have provided. As you claim that the bulgarians are also closer to the bosniaks, then why isn't that in the article. It's because you want the article to sound mediterranean and not slavic. You want the article to be like you want it to be and the ones the sources that supports a slavic or a non mediterranean connection then you want it to removed. How arrogant and ignorant your attitude is jingiby! Not only that you are also anti-white and anti-bulgarian as you do not want to see the article supporting the real evidence concerning the white racial heritage of the bulgarians.

The source that I have provided claims briefly that the closest cousins to the bulgarians are croats and poles and you dont want to see that in the article because you are anti white and anti european.Stormfighter14 (talk) 16:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I have removed your racialis and anti-Turkish comments and POV. Misplaced Pages is not place for propagandize racialis and pseudo-scientific theories such as Bulgarians and their Arian brothers etc. Tabloids and common newspapers are not reliable sources for genetic studies. Check MEDRS. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 05:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

What was racist about the comments I put! There is no sight of that. And where did I say about aryan brothers? You just tell plain lies. The sources I have given are very reliable scientific facts and for it to be on 3 newspapers tells how true and reliable they are. No one will post them if it is not a fact, so as its a fact and the main genetic article it deserves to be on the article as the people who conducted that study should be respected. You have no respect or common decency. You just want to remove anything that don't sound mediterranean appealing to you. While Im not racist I am anti turkish and yes I admit it. Look how much damage the turks have done to Bulgaria and also other Balkan nations. Millions perished during the occupation and many have fought for those nations to be independent. For you to not support an anti turkish person makes you a traitor. Maybe you are of turkish decsent? Also you want to filter out scientific facts that supports a theory that bulgarians are purely white european and not turkic and instead you support lies that say bulgarians are mediterranean and should be turk friendly. This is anti-white and anti-european.Stormfighter14 (talk) 10:23, 24 April 2013 (UTC)