Revision as of 18:15, 21 May 2013 editSepsis II (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,988 edits Undid revision 556098975 by Mr. Stradivarius (talk)again per WEASEL and wp:VERIFY, and the CIA is NOT "many sources"← Previous edit | Revision as of 18:17, 21 May 2013 edit undoSepsis II (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,988 edits →Source summary: per Mr. S' suggestionNext edit → | ||
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The capital status of Jerusalem is complex, and there have been many different views expressed on it in reliable sources. The participants of the moderated discussion have collaboratively created a summary of these views: | The capital status of Jerusalem is complex, and there have been many different views expressed on it in reliable sources. The participants of the moderated discussion have collaboratively created a summary of these views: | ||
* No news agency, or at least none that could be found after an extensive search, with a guideline for neutral reporting allows Jerusalem to be reported as the capital of Israel.<ref>http://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=J#Jerusalem</ref><ref>http://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=T#Tel_Aviv</ref><ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/israel_and_the_palestinians/key_documents/6044090.stm#jerusalem</ref><ref>http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/j</ref><ref>http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/propaganda-or-news-associated-press-names-jerusalem-israeli-city</ref><ref>http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/16/ap-issues-correction-after-calling-jerusalem-isreals-capital/</ref><ref>http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/STYLEBOOK.20041110.style_1775/Stylebook/National/</ref> | |||
* Jerusalem is the capital of Israel under Israeli law.<ref name=0.01>{{cite web|title=Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel|url=http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/basic10_eng.htm|publisher=The State of Israel|quote=Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.}}</ref> | * Jerusalem is the capital of Israel under Israeli law.<ref name=0.01>{{cite web|title=Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel|url=http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/basic10_eng.htm|publisher=The State of Israel|quote=Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.}}</ref> | ||
* Few or no countries recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.<ref name=1.01>{{cite web|author=James Vicini|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-usa-israel-passport-idUSTRE7415IX20110502|title=Supreme Court to consider Jerusalem passport case|date=2 May 2011|publisher=Reuters|quote=While Israel calls Jerusalem its "eternal and indivisible" capital, few other states accept that status}}</ref><ref name=1.02>{{cite web|title=U.S. criticizes Jerusalem plan for new housing|url=http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/18/world/fg-israel-housing18|publisher=Los Angeles Times|date=18 November 2009|author=Richard Boudreaux|quote="Jerusalem is Israel's capital and will remain as such." That position is universally rejected by other countries}}</ref><ref name=1.03>{{cite web|title=Romney: US has moral duty to block Iran nuclear plans|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19035134|publisher=BBC|date=29 July 2012|quote=Mr Romney referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital, something the current US administration and most of the international community do not do.}}</ref><ref name=1.04>{{cite web|title=A New Struggle For Jerusalem|url=http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/02/weekinreview/a-new-struggle-for-jerusalem.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm|publisher=The New York Times|author=Serge Schmemann|date=2 March 1997|quote=even the United States has not recognized the city as Israel's capital}}</ref><ref name=1.05>{{cite book|title=Fundamental Perspectives on International Law|year=2010|publisher=Wadsworth|isbn=9780495797197|page=87|url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UbK3PI7nME4C&pg=PA87|author=William R. Slomanson|edition=6th|quote=In Israel, most states (...) do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, as claimed by Israel since 1950.}}</ref><ref name=1.06>{{cite web|title=Competing Claims, Contested City: The Sovereignty of Jerusalem under International Law|url=http://www.qatarconferences.org/jerusalem/doc1/doc31.pdf|publisher=International Conference on Jerusalem|author=Victor Kattan|pages=2, 17|date=2012|quote=no state recognizes Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem in neither its eastern nor western half}}</ref> | * Few or no countries recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.<ref name=1.01>{{cite web|author=James Vicini|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-usa-israel-passport-idUSTRE7415IX20110502|title=Supreme Court to consider Jerusalem passport case|date=2 May 2011|publisher=Reuters|quote=While Israel calls Jerusalem its "eternal and indivisible" capital, few other states accept that status}}</ref><ref name=1.02>{{cite web|title=U.S. criticizes Jerusalem plan for new housing|url=http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/18/world/fg-israel-housing18|publisher=Los Angeles Times|date=18 November 2009|author=Richard Boudreaux|quote="Jerusalem is Israel's capital and will remain as such." That position is universally rejected by other countries}}</ref><ref name=1.03>{{cite web|title=Romney: US has moral duty to block Iran nuclear plans|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19035134|publisher=BBC|date=29 July 2012|quote=Mr Romney referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital, something the current US administration and most of the international community do not do.}}</ref><ref name=1.04>{{cite web|title=A New Struggle For Jerusalem|url=http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/02/weekinreview/a-new-struggle-for-jerusalem.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm|publisher=The New York Times|author=Serge Schmemann|date=2 March 1997|quote=even the United States has not recognized the city as Israel's capital}}</ref><ref name=1.05>{{cite book|title=Fundamental Perspectives on International Law|year=2010|publisher=Wadsworth|isbn=9780495797197|page=87|url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UbK3PI7nME4C&pg=PA87|author=William R. Slomanson|edition=6th|quote=In Israel, most states (...) do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, as claimed by Israel since 1950.}}</ref><ref name=1.06>{{cite web|title=Competing Claims, Contested City: The Sovereignty of Jerusalem under International Law|url=http://www.qatarconferences.org/jerusalem/doc1/doc31.pdf|publisher=International Conference on Jerusalem|author=Victor Kattan|pages=2, 17|date=2012|quote=no state recognizes Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem in neither its eastern nor western half}}</ref> |
Revision as of 18:17, 21 May 2013
ShortcutThis is a draft version of the upcoming RfC about the lead of the Jerusalem article. It isn't ready for people to comment on yet, and any comments made will be removed. Its content is subject to change without warning as improvements are made to it. If you have any comments about the draft, please make them at Talk:Jerusalem/2013 RfC discussion#General discussion. Thank you. — Mr. Stradivarius 14:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC) |
If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Misplaced Pages contributors. Misplaced Pages has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:spa|username}} ; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}} . |
This is a discussion to decide the content of the lead section of the Jerusalem article. It was mandated by the Arbitration Committee by motion in January 2013, and its result will be binding for three years. The structure of this page was arrived at through a moderated discussion conducted by Mr. Stradivarius.
The dispute over the lead of the Jerusalem article is one of the oldest on Misplaced Pages, having first been debated in 2003. Since then it has generated more than 1675KiB of wikitext in 90 discussion threads, including at least three previous RfCs. The dispute focuses on whether or not it is neutral to say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. — Mr. Stradivarius 09:00, 23 May 2013
Please note that there is some substantial coverage of this topic at the Misplaced Pages article, Positions on Jerusalem. --Sm8900 (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Discussion structure
We have included two general discussion questions for you to answer, and seven drafts for you to comment on. In order to keep the general discussion questions on topic, we ask you to please refrain from asking new numbered questions after the ones we have worked out in the moderated discussion. However, you are of course welcome to ask new questions on the talk page.
As for the drafts, we agreed in the moderated discussion that we would like editors to bring in fresh opinions. So you may add new drafts using the format provided below. However, to keep us from having many similar drafts, we ask that you add a comment in the "support with revisions" section if you are only suggesting a minor improvement of an existing draft. New drafts should be reserved for major changes from existing drafts.
Also, rather than include a detailed breakdown of all the talk page arguments made over the years, we have opted to include a summary of what reliable sources say about the subject of the dispute. We hope you will consider the positions of the sources carefully, and make informed comments based on both the sources and on Misplaced Pages policy. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Source summary
The capital status of Jerusalem is complex, and there have been many different views expressed on it in reliable sources. The participants of the moderated discussion have collaboratively created a summary of these views:
- No news agency, or at least none that could be found after an extensive search, with a guideline for neutral reporting allows Jerusalem to be reported as the capital of Israel.
- Jerusalem is the capital of Israel under Israeli law.
- Few or no countries recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
- The capital status of Jerusalem is controversial. It is controversial to refer to Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and it is also controversial not to refer to it as the capital of Israel. It is also controversial to refer to Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine.
- Some reputable sources use "Tel Aviv" as a metonym, as shorthand for 'Israel', and some reputable sources refer to Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel.
- East Jerusalem, which our article treats as part of Jerusalem, is in the Palestinian territories and is occupied by Israel.
- The CIA considered it correct to list Jerusalem as the capital of Israel while the government of Canada considered it correct to leave the capital of Israel blank when there was little room for nuance. In prose, objective sources often use qualifiers which show that the status as capital was achieved unilaterally.
- Palestine aspires to make Jerusalem its capital.
- The Israeli government made Jerusalem its seat of government and declared it its capital.
- There is very little support for the Israeli view regarding the Sovereignty and capital status of Jerusalem (especially East Jerusalem).
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Question one
Is it compliant with WP:NPOV to state 'Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.'?
Please answer either "yes", "no", or "other" in the relevant section below, giving a detailed rationale for your choice.
Question one: Yes
Question one: No
Question one: Other
Question one threaded discussion
Question two
Is it compliant with WP:NPOV to state 'Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.'?
Please answer either "yes", "no", or "other" in the relevant section below, giving a detailed rationale for your choice.
Question two: Yes
Question two: No
Question two: Other
Question two threaded discussion
Drafts at a glance
We have created seven drafts for you to comment on. Please note that not all of these drafts are intended to be the first sentence of the lead. Some are intended to come later on in the lead, so please bear this in mind when you comment. Also, you may support as many drafts as you like. If you think a draft has merit, then please support it regardless of whether you have also supported other drafts. This will help us to judge what features of what drafts have the widest support, so that we can create new composite drafts if desired. And finally, please give detailed rationales for your choice of draft, based on Misplaced Pages policy. Some applicable policies and guidelines include:
- Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view
- Misplaced Pages:Verifiability
- Misplaced Pages:No original research
- Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Lead section
Below is a list of all the drafts constructed for easy comparison. To comment on a draft, please use the discussion sections further down the page. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
- Jerusalem is a city in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Since the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel has occupied East Jerusalem and has included it within its capital city. Palestine has designated Jerusalem its capital, though neither the Israeli or Palestinian claims have gained international recognition.
- Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government, but its status as the capital of Israel has been unrecognized abroad. Instead, the international community considers the status of Jerusalem a matter to be resolved with Palestinians, who also see the city as the capital of a future independent state of their own.
- Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.
- Both Israel and Palestine claim Jerusalem as their respective capital, but the city isn't recognized internationally as a capital.
- Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital and seat of the Israeli government and the proclaimed capital of Palestine, though the international community does not recognize either proclamation or ownership of the city.
- Jerusalem has long been a point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with both Israelis and Palestinians seeing it as capital of their respective states. Although the Israeli government operates out of the city and has called the city its capital for decades, most nations do not recognize this status.
- Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world, considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.
Draft one
Jerusalem is a city in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Since the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel has occupied East Jerusalem and has included it within its capital city. Palestine has designated Jerusalem its capital, though neither the Israeli or Palestinian claims have gained international recognition.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft one
Support draft one with revisions
Oppose draft one
Draft one threaded discussion
Draft two
Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government, but its status as the capital of Israel has been unrecognized abroad. Instead, the international community considers the status of Jerusalem a matter to be resolved with Palestinians, who also see the city as the capital of a future independent state of their own.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft two
Support draft two with revisions
Oppose draft two
Draft two threaded discussion
Draft three
Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft three
Support draft three with revisions
Oppose draft three
Draft three threaded discussion
Draft four
Both Israel and Palestine claim Jerusalem as their respective capital, but the city isn't recognized internationally as a capital.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft four
Support draft four with revisions
Oppose draft four
Draft four threaded discussion
Draft five
Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital and seat of the Israeli government and the proclaimed capital of Palestine, though the international community does not recognize either proclamation or ownership of the city.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft five
Support draft five with revisions
Oppose draft five
Draft five threaded discussion
Draft six
Jerusalem has long been a point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with both Israelis and Palestinians seeing it as capital of their respective states. Although the Israeli government operates out of the city and has called the city its capital for decades, most nations do not recognize this status.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft six
Support draft six with revisions
Oppose draft six
Draft six threaded discussion
Draft seven
Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world, considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.
Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.
Support draft seven
Support draft seven with revisions
Oppose draft seven
Draft seven threaded discussion
Draft eight by InsertUsernameHere
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Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.