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Revision as of 19:53, 3 June 2006

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Calgacus is taking a short wikibreak and will be back on Misplaced Pages on May 12th

Allow me

Since you did the Chronicle of the Kings of Alba page, you might want to take a look at the Synod at Scone page. I think it needs fixed. --AJN 08:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

MacHeths

Archie Duncan, Kingship of the Scots, pp. 66–67 makes MacHeth and mac Alasdair different people, in line with Oram, David, p. 115ff., including the presumption that Máel Coluim mac Alasdair was the tool of Somhairle (and Óengus of Moray) and that Domnall mac Maíl Coluim was his son (and presumably Somhairle's grandson). Although MacDonald and Barrow use Occam's Razor to combine the two, they don't agree on how, as the sole explanation in the case of Kingship and Unity, as one of several in Outlaws. All of MacDonald's versions make MacHeth Somhairle's son-in-law and Domnall mac Maíl Coluim of 1156 his son. Angus McLellan (Talk) 16:57, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, sounds good. I'll have a go at Harald Maddadson and his brood this week; I have the Orkneyinga Saga and MacDonald and Oram which should do for a start, but I expect that it'll need sorting out aftewards. Does this mean you won't have a go at the MacHeths ? If you won't, I'll have a go in preference to Harald, if that's ok. Which would you prefer ? And if so, MacHeths or Meic Áeda ? I think I may have spotted a new sockpuppet — User:Red blaze — being manufactured by you-know-who. If so, while an improvement on the last lot, he's still got a long way to go. Cheers. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes indeed, Mormaer Beth (or Eth or Áed) is the supposed father of Máel Coluim MacHeth, assuming, as Oram and Archie Duncan do, that he isn't the son of Alexander I. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

No other evidence basically; just the name and the charters. The French articles follow MacDonald, Outlaws of Medieval Scotland, pp. 78–79, who thinks Áed would be Lulach's daughter's husband and Óengus of Moray's father. Now that is reductionist ! That doesn't fit with Oram, who marries Somerled's daughter to Alexander's son and makes Máel Coluim MacHeth the son of Mormaer (B)eth. Duncan thinks "just a Mormaer" and never says who married who. Grant thinks "a Mormaer" and maybe, but he doubts it, a descendant of some Cenél nGabráin king, like the meic Duib, to account for Máel Coluim being accepted back into the king's peace in 1157. Unlike Oram (and Woolf according to the notes), Grant thinks MacHeth married Somerled's daughter. I'm going to stick with Oram/Duncan, just this guy (a Mormaer of Ross of unknown ancestry), and mention the rest as I go along because that narrative makes the least assumptions. Correction: Oram says Áed witnessed two charters under David I (p. 232, note 27, cites Charters of David I, p. 72) Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, Harald Maddadson hasn't got very far yet, but I should be done by the end of the week. Next thing, I suppose, would be to tidy up Wimund with some stuff from MacDonald and Oram. I see the bishops are progressing well. Did that nonsense above about Beth/Eth/Aed make sense ? Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, Áed would be a busy chap. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. I'll reread it just in case I've missed a generation somewhere. Two Máel Coluims seems so much simpler. A list of Earls of Orkney, unfortunately not, and neither does the the norsk Misplaced Pages. The index to the Penguin Orkneyinga Saga is fairly good though, tagging dates on to them should be easy enough and there's always the web, like this for filling in the gaps. For Harald, I have plenty of material for a first effort. MacDonald has a fair bit on him, and it doesn't seem too creative and there's Oram for background. There's also Finn's norsk article, which I can't read as such, but I can tell what it's talking about more or less. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Gilbert: well it was probably in French or Latin anyway, so you'd have to translate it. Why not Gilla Brigte ? I'll get round to the list before I head over to Scotland. There's an outstanding merge for Earl of Orkney and Earldom of Orkney. I think it would be as well to have two articles since there's a fair bit can be said. I'd as soon have a list of earls with a short paragraph on each one that didn't justify an article as create a heap more stubs. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

New Article

Well, hello to you too. Nice article. Mak (talk) 03:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Gregoir, Bishop of Dunkeld. Someone's got to write articles on 12th century bishops. I just do the ones on 12th century composers. Mak (talk) 03:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

For your historical contributions

The Epic Barnstar For tireless work which has established Scotland among the best historically represented nations on Misplaced Pages i award you the Epic Barnstar. siarach 19:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey ! That means you got two, or one and half anyway, as this one is at least half yours. Cheers and best of luck ! Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Middle Ages did not call younger members of royal families as princes and princesses

please check the ongoing discussion about "princess" title on Talk:Margaret of Connaught - it will have implications that many medieval women will soon get the courtesy prefix "princess" before their names in article names. ObRoy 21:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Okopy Świętej Trójcy

Hello there, I noticed that you moved the article on Okopy Świętej Trójcy from its original name to a name you invented. Could you move the article back - or at least explain some rationale behind your violation of wiki naming conventions at the talk page? Thanks in advance. //Halibutt 20:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello

hello!Nice community,I want be a member in it. I come from Greece and I love the Scotish Gaelik language. I would like learn to speak and read but I don' t know the way. Here in Greece is impossible and the only way is your site. Please help me!(Kanathos- 28 May 2006) If I make any mistake, sorry, is the first time where I use this page. Kanathos.

mormaer vs earl

I have an understanding that these early Scottish lords have since then dubbed as earls in authoritative works of reference and also by later generations in Scotland, including their own successors who count them as earlier earls of those places. That is usually sufficient for titling them as earls here, as all other variants of titulary are to be explained in the article itself. However, I understand that mormaer might be a title of which the "translation" earl may create some confusion (certainly not much?) though those titles are of the approximate same level and, for example, no loss of understanding what was the guy's position is caused by naming them earls. If you feel stongly that the better English variant of the title is mormaer rather than Earl, you are welcome to submit your request for exception to for example the talk about names and titles naming convention, or to UseEnglish policy talk. (It will be in vain if only editors of these specific nations try to make an exception for themselves.) Whereas I will be adamantly against using Gaelic or other native name versions of medieval persons if an English one exists. Marrtel 13:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Please understand that titling a biography of a person who was at least some sort of ruler, as X of Y, you do make an implication that he was King of Y. This is a matter which has long been established in policy about "names and titles" in article titles. Those rulers and chieftains who were not kings but under that level, should never be without a title to indicate that point. I do not believe you will succeed in obtaining any exception to that. On the contrary, a number of editors have been working to move various sorts of counts and princes to locations which include a title. When working here with only my IP in editing, I realized countless of times that the policy actually helps when making links inside article text. At least, it is something that already has consensus, and i find it quite disconcerting that some isolated groups of biographies use a contrary logic. Marrtel 13:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

You hopefully are not indicating that these Malises were kings? If there happens to be a couple of examples such as Jogaila, who after all was king when died, those are not sufficient to push the same to a countless number of petty lordlings. How about you follow the convention for peerage titles when creating (or defending) articles about persons who, after all, are in Scotland's own historiographies dubbed as proto-peers and treated as peers. Marrtel 14:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I have always been willing to grant that medieval petty rulers could be at format "X, Prince of Y" and not necessarily at "X, Nth Prince of X" as indicates the much later peerage usage. Do I understand correctly then that our only difference re these article names is actually between "Malise" and that almost unintelligible goidelic variant of the same? Marrtel 14:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

A piece of nonsense if you want my opinion. People who rename articles and don't fix the resulting double redirects, never mind the single ones, aren't to be taken very seriously. If you need links fixed, let me know. My spiffy AutoWikiBrowser can do it very quickly. Remind me, but doesn't the Mormaer article say "King" ? I was sure that it did. Angus McLellan (Talk) 16:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Now these are starting to look good enough. At least, those petty rulers of semi-Anglic era have a title, so they conform with the NC, being analogously named with Margaret III, Countess of Flanders, Arthur II, Duke of Brittany and Stephen II, Count of Blois. Of course, I would feel more comfortable with first names in variants such as Malcolm and Duncan, but I am too tired now to check how common they are in literature. Whereas I do not particularly like to use Nth Earl of somewhere -format to medieval persons. There could be some pressure from peerage enthusiasts to have those changed, so I propose that a policy be eritten that "Lordships, Mormaerships, Earldoms and like who do or may derive from time immemorial, shall not be designated by format "Nth Earl of" but are to follow practice of continental fiefs and principalities, until the first clear peerage de novo creation. (Namesakes are to be disambiguated for example by ordinals.) This is to avoid problems that not necessarily is it known who was the first holder of the lorsdhip - the line we know may start just from midst of actual line." Would someone know where to write such guideline? Is there some manual of style for Svottish affairs? Marrtel 21:33, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Harlaw

Thanks for reading through it. The stuff bigging up the Gael vs Gall dimension to the battle seemed highly dubious to me both in the previous version of the article and in some of the references used but as none of the (admittedly limited) works i have to hand while im still in London seemed to contradict this view i felt best to leave it in. Anyway, i can sleep easier at night knowing that the jawdropping reference to a Pictish(!) element in the "lowland" army is no longer there ;). siarach 23:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I vs elder

Soon someone will change the place, they simply are not used to Henry Sinclair I mode. Suggest something like Henry Sinclair the elder, Earl of Orkney... Marrtel 00:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Celtophobia

The article was deleted. But I did have one thought. As you mentioned the formation of the word is obvious to anyone with basic English language skills. So I wondered what you would think about creating the article as a redirect to Celt. As the meaning of Celtophobia is so obvious, at least anyone searching for it could find out something about the people who are the subject of the phobia. Alternatively it could be redirected to -phob- or Phobia What do you think? Alun 07:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Blind reverts are reprehensible

Galgacus, please read first what is in the edit you go to revert. Your behavior of blind reverting is not acceptable. You put yourself at risk of being regarded as vandal, if you do such reverts. Marrtel 20:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Gille/Gilla

What we seem to have left is Gilla Coemgáin of Moray, and I will move that tomorrow and fix the links. Perhaps I'll tidy up Lulach and Gruoch while I'm at it. Cheers ! Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:54, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

kindly tell your precise objections

Please explain your objections at Talk:House of Dunkeld. Realizing that you possibly need some help, I already provided those sentences there for you to dissect. Meanwhile, of course blind reverts are always close to vandalism. Marrtel 00:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Message from a Bluegold IP

Your are a pathetic little man if all you have to do is watch me, get a life for yourself, get yourself a proper job. Did you know that too much computer work will eventually mess up your eyesight, and maybe later in life lead to heart disease. Also it's bad for the intellect. Life is short and sweet, take my advice, ENJOY! 86.42.133.140 14:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Bluegold. It's not that hard to watch you. You consistently edit the same topics with the same POV, and these topics happen to be ones I watch. You might as well post a flag on my talk page saying "this is Bluegold" every time you edit, providing me with a link. - 14:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, you seem to have a problem with sockpuppetry, and that's okay if the socks are being used abusively, but sock puppetry is often the response to meatpuppetry. And you and your mates definitely are meatpuppets. Also I see lot of people complaining about you. You are the only one who complains about me. Does it not tell you something. I will continue to expose your meatpuppetry.86.42.133.140 14:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh please ... give me a break. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 14:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Since my last posting I have traveled 200 miles, and am now checking my email in the Internet Cafe, Eyre Square, Galway. Oh please! don't press the button! The sun is only splitting the rocks today and I would like to remind you to get out and have some fun. Tomorrow I visit the Aran Islands and of all places DunAngus is on the itinerary, hope he doesn't live there! So by all means, take a break, and I shan't be back for 5 days, so no need to watch your Wiki pages against some good editing. Have a nice weekend!Bluegold 19:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)