Misplaced Pages

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Use the closure requests noticeboard to ask an uninvolved editor to assess, summarize, and formally close a Misplaced Pages discussion. Do so when consensus appears unclear, it is a contentious issue, or where there are wiki-wide implications (e.g. any change to our policies or guidelines).

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Administrative discussions

Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive367#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Rajiv_Dixit#RFC_can_we_say_he_peddaled_false_hoods_in_the_lede

(Initiated 20 days ago on 5 December 2024) - Ratnahastin (talk) 07:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive367#Close challenge for Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War#RFC for Jewish exodus

(Initiated 12 days ago on 13 December 2024) challenge of close at AN was archived nableezy - 05:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Place new administrative discussions above this line using a level 3 heading

Requests for comment

Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase II/Mentoring process

(Initiated 223 days ago on 15 May 2024) Discussion died down quite a long time ago. I do not believe anything is actionable but a formal closure will help. Soni (talk) 04:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/In the news criteria amendments

(Initiated 78 days ago on 7 October 2024) Tough one, died down, will expire tomorrow. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Turkey#RfC_on_massacres_and_genocides_in_the_lead

(Initiated 77 days ago on 8 October 2024) Expired tag, no new comments in more than a week. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 21:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

 Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. Also see: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard topic. Bogazicili (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

 Note: Not sure if anyone is looking into this, but might be a good idea to wait for a few weeks since there is ongoing discussion. Bogazicili (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Talk_page_guidelines#Request_for_comment:_Do_the_guidelines_in_WP:TPO_also_apply_to_archived_talk_pages?

(Initiated 69 days ago on 16 October 2024) Discussion seems to have petered out a month ago. Consensus seems unclear. Gnomingstuff (talk) 02:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

 Note: Needs admin closure imho, due to its importance (guideline page), length (101kb), and questions about neutrality of the Rfc question and what it meant. Mathglot (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

And in true Streisand effect fashion, this discussion, quiescent for six weeks, has some more responses again. Mathglot (talk) 01:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 459#RFC_Jerusalem_Post

(Initiated 58 days ago on 28 October 2024) Participation/discussion has mostly stopped & is unlikely to pick back up again. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

 Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  22:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Grey_Literature

(Initiated 45 days ago on 10 November 2024) Discussion is slowing significantly. Likely no consensus, personally. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Option 2 was very clearly rejected. The closer should try to see what specific principles people in the discussion agreed upon if going with a no consensus close, because there should be a follow-up RfC after some of the details are hammered out. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... —Compassionate727  13:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@Compassionate727: Still working on this? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 17:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Ugh… in practice, no. I'm still willing to do it, but it's in hiatus because of the three(!) pending challenges of my closures at AN, while I evaluate to what extent I need to change how I approach closures. If somebody else wants to take over this, they should feel free. —Compassionate727  22:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Taking a pause is fair. Just wanted to double check. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

asking for an update if possible. I think this RFC and previous RFCBEFORE convos were several TOMATS long at this point, so I get that this might take time. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment#RFC_on_signing_RFCs

(Initiated 41 days ago on 13 November 2024) - probably gonna stay status quo, but would like a closure to point to Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Done Soni (talk) 21:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#RfC: Check Your Fact

(Initiated 41 days ago on 13 November 2024) RfC has elapsed, and uninvolved closure is requested. — Red-tailed sock _{(Red-tailed hawk's nest)} 15:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#RfC Indian numbering conventions

(Initiated 39 days ago on 16 November 2024) Very wide impact, not much heat. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:30, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

• Consensus seems clear, I don't think my Indian-ness poses a WP;COI here, closed. Soni (talk) 22:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:List of fictional countries set on Earth#RfC on threshold for inclusion

(Initiated 35 days ago on 20 November 2024) TompaDompa (talk) 17:50, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (music)#RfC about the naming conventions for boy bands

(Initiated 16 days ago on 8 December 2024) No further participation in the last 7 days. Consensus is clear but I am the opener of the RfC and am not comfortable closing something I am so closely involved in, so would like somebody uninvolved to close it if they believe it to be appropriate.RachelTensions (talk) 16:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not comfortable closing a discussion on a guideline change this early. In any case, if the discussion continues as it has been, a formal closure won't be necessary. —Compassionate727  13:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Articles for creation#RfC: Should a bot be created to handle AfC submissions that haven't changed since the last time they were submitted?

(Initiated 39 days ago on 15 November 2024) This RfC expired five days ago, has an unclear consensus, I am involved, and discussion has died down. JJP_Master (she/they) 22:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Len_Blavatnik#RfC:_NPOV_in_the_lead

(Initiated 8 days ago on 16 December 2024) RFC is only 5 days old as of time of this posting, but overwhelming consensus approves of status quo, except for a single COI editor. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The CoI editor has now accepted that consensus is for the status quo, but I think a formal close from an uninvolved editor, summarizing the consensus would be helpful, since the issue has been coming up for a while and many editors were involved. — penultimate_supper 🚀 16:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

yes, despite multiple posts to WP:BLPN, WP:NPOVN, WP:3O, several talk page discussions, and now an RFC, I doubt the pressure to remove word oligarch from the lede of that page will stop. An appropriate close could be a useful thing to point at in the future though. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done by Nomoskedasticity. —Compassionate727  13:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Template talk:Infobox country#Request for comment on greenhouse emissions

(Initiated 89 days ago on 27 September 2024) Lots of considered debate with good points made. See the nom's closing statement. Kowal2701 (talk) 09:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done —Compassionate727  13:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Israel#RfC

(Initiated 32 days ago on 22 November 2024) Legobot has removed the RFC notice. Can we please get an interdependent close. TarnishedPath 23:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Chloe Melas#RFC on allegation of making a false allegation (resubmission)

(Initiated 31 days ago on 24 November 2024) The bot has removed the RFC notice. Can we please get an independent close. TarnishedPath 23:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done —Compassionate727  13:44, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning RfCs above this line using a level 3 heading

Deletion discussions

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of songs recorded by Mohammed Rafi (A)

Please review this discussion. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion has now been relisted thrice. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning XfDs above this line using a level 3 heading

Other types of closing requests

Talk:Arab migrations to the Levant#Merger Proposal

(Initiated 91 days ago on 25 September 2024) Open for a while, requesting uninvolved closure. Andre🚐 22:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:LGBT history in Georgia#Proposed merge of LGBT rights in Georgia into LGBT history in Georgia

(Initiated 79 days ago on 7 October 2024) A merge + move request with RM banners that needs closure. No new comments in 20 days. —CX Zoom 20:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done —Compassionate727  14:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Donald Trump#Proposal: Age and health concerns regarding Trump

(Initiated 70 days ago on 16 October 2024) Experienced closer requested. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Tesla Cybercab#Proposed merge of Tesla Network into Tesla Cybercab

(Initiated 68 days ago on 18 October 2024) This needs formal closure by someone uninvolved. N2e (talk) 03:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I think it would be better to leave that discussion be. There is no consensus one way or the other. I could close it as "no consensus," but I think it would be better to just leave it so that if there's ever anyone else who has a thought on the matter, they can comment in that discussion instead of needing to open a new one. —Compassionate727  14:15, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Stadion Miejski (Białystok)#Requested move 5 November 2024

(Initiated 49 days ago on 5 November 2024) RM that has been open for over a month. Natg 19 (talk) 02:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:JTG Daugherty Racing#Requested move 22 November 2024

(Initiated 32 days ago on 22 November 2024) Pretty simple RM that just needs an uninvolved editor to close. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 17:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done —Compassionate727  14:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Williamsburg Bray School#Splitting proposal

(Initiated 28 days ago on 27 November 2024) Only two editors—the nominator and myself—have participated. That was two weeks ago. Just needs an uninvolved third party for closure. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... BusterD (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Winter fuel payment abolition backlash#Merge proposal

(Initiated 57 days ago on 29 October 2024) There are voices on both sides (ie it is not uncontroversial) so a non-involved editor is needed to evaluate consensus and close this. Thanks. PamD 09:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading

Crashsnake

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Crashsnake (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I am looking for input on what to do with User:Crashsnake. I have seen his name pop up a lot both on my watchlist, and in other places. A perusal of his talk page going back over three years, many editors have tried to reach out to him to get his attention and try to communicate with him. He does not respond on his talk page, and rarely leaves edit summaries. I am concerned that we have a basic competence issue with this user , who is apparently often described as disruptive and engages in edit warring.

I considered starting a user RFC to bring up these issues, but this user's particular non-communicativeness makes me concerned that such a thing would be pointless. Reviewing his contributions list on user talk pages (with none on his own page), article talk pages, Misplaced Pages pages and Misplaced Pages talk pages reveals fewer than 10 total edits between those spaces in over a 3 year span. While a user is not required to communicate in any of these venues, it is important to respond to people when they bring issues to your attention, and the fact that he has used these at all tells me that he does know how to use them, so the only conclusion I can come to is that he chooses not to communicate with other editors.

His block log reveals that he has been blocked twice by J Greb and once by Nightscream, both of whom made multiple efforts to reach out to him before blocking him. Spidey104 has also made quite a bit of effort to reach out to him, again with no response. What, if anything, can be done to get this user to communicate with other editors rather than shutting everyone else out and going back to the same behaviors to get his way? If there is nothing that can be done, should we consider a topic ban or more serious measures? BOZ (talk) 21:04, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Given that they're not responding in any way, a topic ban is largely meaningless. A wake up block might be necessary. Blackmane (talk) 22:24, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

It seems to me that he has had three "wake up blocks" already – one just two months ago – which failed to catch his attention. Since, as far as I can tell, his editing is limited to articles about comic book related topics (characters, movies based on comics, etc.), topic banning him from comic-related articles would definitely catch his attention. If and when he is able prove to the community that he is here to work collaboratively, the topic ban could be lifted. If he just decides to "become someone else's problem" by moving on to another subject area and exhibiting the same behavior there, then he would likely face an altogether ban. Please tell me if I am going about this all the wrong way. BOZ (talk) 23:28, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Topic bans are not a valid solution for anything. All they do is shift the problem from one group of editors to another. My feeling is, if an editor is causing problems on a persistent, ongoing basis, and refuses to acknowledge warnings, then he/she should be blocked, indefinitely, until he/she responds. Period. Nightscream (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Real nice suggestions. You guys make it sound like the "persistent, ongoing problems" I cause are edits that are completely irrelevant any said page that I've edited. I mean the way you all talk about me makes it sound like I make edits that are completely repetitive (or even inappropriate). Crashsnake 10:50, 21 January 2014

They are. Nightscream (talk) 05:52, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

@Crashsnake: Communication is vital in any collaborative editing atmosphere. A quick glance at your talk page tells me perhaps wikis aren't a good fit for you. -- œ 13:07, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for replying, Crashsnake, although it is unfortunate that it took a ban discussion to get a response from you, but perhaps this can be a good starting-over point for you? While we have your attention, would you please explain why you usually do not respond to other editors when they bring up concerns on your talk page, and why you do not usually use edit summaries on your edits? BOZ (talk) 16:33, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

One of the main problems with your edits, Crashsnake, is that you make large changes in one edit without any explanation in the edit summary. Because you have a history of edit warring or making bad edits it is hard for other editors to assume good faith without an explanation of what you have done, especially when you remove large portions of articles. I will admit that some of your edits are helpful, but the unexplained changes, large removals, and no response to questions far outweighs those helpful edits. The point of this discussion is to stop all of the negatives and increase all of the positives of your editing. Do not take this as a personal attack, but as our last resort to help you so you do not have to be blocked. Spidey104 19:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Crashsnake made a two line comment three days ago and he has not done anything to change his behavior. Obviously he is aware of this discussion because he posted that comment, but clearly he doesn't care if he is doing nothing to change his behavior. I was hoping we could change his behavior without a block, but I think he's shown that he won't change his behavior without some sort of repercussion to show him he needs to change. Unfortunately I think we need to block him to get his attention and hopefully he will fix his behavior after the block expires. Spidey104 14:06, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I was hoping to address this today as well. Yes, Crashsnake's brief response above was more than we ever see from him, but it does nothing to address any of the criticisms laid out here and elsewhere, nor does it even attempt to suggest that he may be willing to implement any changes. I may assume good faith that an editor is willing to change if they at least make an attempt or promise to do so, but I see nothing like that here. He continues to not use edit summaries, and although I have not checked for any further edit warring, I see no reason to think that will simply change on its own either. I think it's clear from responses above that my earlier suggestion of a topic ban has no traction. The question I must pose, then, is do we think another block will do any good, or should we have a discussion on whether the community would place a ban on him? If a block is the solution, it should be more than just a few days, which will expire and then he can just go back to business as usual; I would suggest an indefinite block in that case, with the proviso that if he can demonstrate a willingness to collaborate with his fellow editors on an ongoing basis that he be unblocked at that point. BOZ (talk) 16:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm in support of an indef block. This kind of smug attitude of indifference to the community is simply rude and uncivil. Editing Misplaced Pages is a privilege, not a right. -- œ 16:33, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough - I think we have enough to move forward with such a proposal. I'm not sure if I should include something about mentorship as an option for a return. BOZ (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposal for indefinite block/ban

I propose that, based on the discussion above, Crashsnake (talk · contribs) be indefinitely blocked (or alternately, banned) by the community until such a time that he can demonstrate a willingness to collaborate with his fellow editors on an ongoing basis. If you wish to oppose this measure, please suggest an alternative approach which you believe would be effective to encourage the user to improve his approach. BOZ (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

• Support an indefinite block, as proposer. BOZ (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support an indefinite block per BOZ's reasonings. Enough is enough. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:52, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support per BOZ's reasonings. An indefinite block seems to be the only way to start making progress, because as Nightscream said, a ban would only push this issue onto another group of editors, if he chose to edit elsewhere. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:33, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support per above. Nightscream (talk) 02:13, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose I am all for blocking him, but I think we are moving too quickly by jumping all of the way to an indefinite block. His previous blocks have only been for two weeks or less. I think we should take a larger step up from two weeks than a month, but I don't think we should jump to indefinite. I think blocks could fix his behavior. I recently went from this to this with another editor who seemed to have no intention of changing his behavior because of a block. Spidey104 03:10, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Spidey, you may have run into the exception that confirms the rule. The idea with an indefinite block like this is typically that at some point the editor kind of gets it and has to make an effort to get the block undone, not just wait it out. Indefinite is not infinite, that's the rationale. Drmies (talk) 03:15, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Right, that is what I was thinking - it puts the onus on Crashsnake to decide that he wants to improve his approach, which is what I am saying in my proposal. I also thought about suggesting that accepting a mentorship would be a good way to demonstrate good faith on his part. Indefinite could mean that he thinks about it for a few days and bites, or he could say never mind and remain uncommunicative and stay blocked for however long. Indefinite just means that there is no specified duration - could be days, weeks, months, years, or continually. BOZ (talk) 04:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
• Query What is this "willingness to collaborate" going to look like? Too often these blocks turn into a demands for groveling and penance. I'm not saying nothing should be done; I'm saying I'd like to see specific things we want from Crashsnake to allow them to continue to contribute to Misplaced Pages (that's the goal, right?) NE Ent 04:28, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I suppose that is entirely subjective... I imagine the answer you are looking for would have to be up to whatever admin would be unwilling to unblock him. BOZ (talk) 04:39, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support indef block per discussion above. -- œ 07:24, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support indefinite block - œ™ is absolutely correct in saying that "Communication is vital in any collaborative editing atmosphere." An editor who is perfect in every other way might just barely get by without communication but I can't imagine such a scenario. And as Drmies says, indefinite is not infinite. Dougweller (talk) 09:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Joefromrandb

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have been holding an editing discussion with User:Joefromrandb on the article Joe E. Ross. The entire discussion can be viewed on the article's talk page. When an established uninvolved editor came in and gave their opinion on the matter, Joefromrandb attacked the person, stating "I had little doubt someone would have the admin's back sooner or later. I guess I'll have to sort through this pile of shit piece-by-piece to find out how much, if any, of it is actually true. Congratulations, the both of you." When the editor defended giving their opinion, Joefromrandb stated "I'm wrong? Perhaps you can show me just where the fuck I'm wrong." When I told Joefromrandb to stop the personal attacks, he said "Do I need to stop beating my wife, too?"

It turns out that Joefromrandb has already been blocked six times in recent months for disruptive editing and personal attacks. In addition, he had been the subject of a number of admin noticeboard discussions, including this one from earlier this month. Based on this history I would have immediately blocked Joefromrandb. However, as an admin involved in an editing discussion with him, I will not do so. I hope other uninvolved admins will examine this case and decide what to do.

I don't have an issue with edit disputes or even losing your cool once in a while. But attacking editors who are merely expressing their opinion is not something we should tolerate, especially when the user has a long history of doing this.--SouthernNights (talk) 14:05, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

You could have just told the truth and said I've been blocked five times over the course of more than a year. The gist of your argument would have been the same. How, exactly, does fudging the numbers benefit anyone? Joefromrandb (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Apologies. I should have said you were blocked four times in the last few months, and 6 times in the last year. But adjusting the time frame doesn't change the pattern I'm seeing here.--SouthernNights (talk) 12:54, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

That would have also been untrue. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:29, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Sigh, how many more times will Joefromrandb have to be brought before AN/ANI before the community finally agrees on an indef block? GiantSnowman 14:10, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Unbelievable. What an incredibly fallacious argument. Honestly, it's scary that you're an admin. You should be required to understand logical fallacies before being allowed to use your admin tools. Viriditas (talk) 02:24, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

But it's not. This an editor with well known problems. I've lost count of how many times his conduct has been raised at the drama boards, and there's of course his recent RFC. Oh, and if you think you can do a better job than me/us, WP:RFA is thataway... GiantSnowman 12:47, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Wow. Again with the same fallacies? I don't care how many times he's been brought here, as that has no bearing on his guilt or innocence. And having been the subject of a bogus RFC myself, that again has no bearing on this thread. Your entire "if there's smoke, there's fire" line of reasoning is fallacious, and editors who rely on it tend to misuse it, such as filing AN/ANI/RFC's against users who they don't like. You can have your precious RFA. You know what to do with it. I don't believe it is improving Misplaced Pages, and one doesn't need it to edit. Viriditas (talk) 19:27, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Not to comment about editor behavior, but that article obviously and currently has some weight and accuracy issues. I can already see a quote that's attributed to the subject in the article, that another source attributes to someone talking about the subject. __ E L A Q U E A T E 18:12, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

And that's why we're holding an edit discussion. But when other editors join in the discussion, and are immediately attacked for their opinion, that has a chilling effect on the ability to reach editorial consensus.--SouthernNights (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Here's my general recommendation in cases that are about editor interaction rather than article content, misuse of tools, or an editor who simply has an uncontrolled combative personality (I'm not seeing any of these in the complaint above - the 5 blocks I can see are spaced far enough apart that "combative personality" probably doesn't apply): IF it's clear that the accusation is just AND the accused realized he did something he shouldn't have AND he apologizes, then nothing more needs to be done. If the accusation is just but the accused doesn't want to apologize or refused to admit there is a problem, a temporary "until you see the folly of your ways" interaction ban, page-ban, or broader ban (but no broader than necessary) may be in order. I would hope that "temporary" would be measured in hours or days not longer. Basically, I'm looking for reconciliation and restoration of good editor-editor relationships so that we all can get back to building the encyclopedia, together. Of course, if it's not clear that the accusation is just then none of the above apply. If the accusation is clearly malicious then the whole thing turns on its head. By the way, this is a general statement. I have not read the diffs so I do not know if it is specifically applicable to this situation. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 22:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I looked at the linked discussion and at the merits of the allegations being made against the named editor. I see an editor understandably frustrated at having to wade through poorly sourced negative material while editors and admins who should know better attack the messenger. Eventually people like Joefromrandb will be run off while the encyclopedia is filled to the brim with civil POV pushers slapping each other on the back. As usual, the priorities are backwards. You can be civil all you want and it won't change the underlying problem. Joe's curt responses and impatience are the symptom of the problem, which is not being addressed. Bringing up the fact that he's been blocked before proves nothing. Viriditas (talk) 05:16, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

• Has anyone looked at Joefromrandb's recent edits to Joe E. Ross? Here is a sample:
  • Remove "Ross's personal life was as noisy and troubled as his screen characters." diff
  • Correct spelling of "Oo!" to "Ooh!". diff
  • Remove gossip attack section, sourced to a blog. diff

  Joefromrandb may be overly blunt, but at least he seems to understand what should be in an article. Johnuniq (talk) 05:23, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

All those edits you mention are perfectly fine and should have been made. And as I mentioned, I have no problem with the edit discussion, or changes to the article, which are indeed being made and, it appears, consensus now being reached on the article. But Joefromrandb was not being too blunt--he attacked an editor who joined the discussion. This is a pattern which he seems to repeat over and over. This isn't POV pushing. This is about an editor attacking other editors and having a history of doing so.--SouthernNights (talk) 12:43, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I personally think Misplaced Pages would be better off if joe was less combative and less profane; I full listing of how I think WP could be better would be seriously tl;dr, so my opinion isn't terribly important. What is important if we remove all the imperfect there'd be no one left to, you know, write content. alf laylah wa laylah did not "defend themselves" so much as counterattacked with snark "That must be a comfort to you." I'm not really interested in trying to sort out the relative merits of the slung mud.
What I'd like to see in the next AN / ANI / RFCU on Joe is examples where the other editors involved were being 100% compliant with with guidelines on content and conduct and Joe just teed off of them out of the blue. Until that happens, I encourage other editors just to ignore his snarky ad hominem and stay focused on the content discussion. NE Ent 14:28, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

You're not likely to ever see that, because: A.) I've made it a point to apologize in the rare cases that I've been a dick without cause, and B.) Because the c-pushers of this site will never behave in the manner you described. Joefromrandb (talk) 20:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

But, um, joe ... you're never allowed to be (as you say) "a dick" either with or without cause. So, if you temper that, you'll never need to apologize. Besides, apologies after the fact are not "get out of jail free" cards. Discretion is the greater part of valour :-) ES&L 11:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Just couldn't resist, huh? "Never need to apologize"? So you think moral perfection should be required to edit Misplaced Pages? What if I told a user to "grow the fuck up"? Should I apologize, or simply edit from an alternate account? Or if enough users were pissed off at me to have a potential Arbcom case hanging over my head? Apologize, or switch accounts? Talk about a "get out of jail free card"! Joefromrandb (talk) 14:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Wow, nice. If false and out-of-context statements is your response when someone comes to your aid as often as I have, and when my statement above is clearly an attempt to support you positively ... I'd hate to review your edits when you're in some kind of passionate editing dispute. Wow. ES&L 15:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

If that was "an attempt to help me positively" then I misunderstood it. All I saw was a straw-man. I made a simple statement that I have apologized in the rare cases I have been a dick without cause. I think most reasonable people would agree that that is the right thing to do. Your response was that I'm "not allowed to be a dick" and "apology is not a 'get out of jail free card'". I never said any such thing; you were arguing against a position that I have never, ever held. By beginning your sentence with the word "but", you indicated that you were countering my statement, but my statement in no way supported the position you attacked. As far as my statements being "false and out-of-context", they were in no way whatsoever false, and I wish you would strike that. Out of context? Yes, quite. I was building my own straw-man to show you how yours looked to me. We apparently misunderstood each other. Not too hard to do in this environment, as your eponymous panda illustrates. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:25, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

FFS, can someone close this discussion? I'm the putatively attacked editor. I didn't feel attacked. Joefromrandb is combative, sure, but he's constructive and writes and debates content. That's what we're here for. We worked it all out on the talk page and what do you know, he was right and I was wrong and nothing got broken and the article's in better shape than it was.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 01:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Joefromrandb (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2014 (UTC)شكر

Issues with Derailing of Merger Discussion at Duke of Edinburgh's Award

Page at Issue: Talk: DofE Award Merger Proposal

Background: An editor, Murry1975, relocated my comments in a merger discussion (]). I moved them back. He then undid my move with the edit comment "where it fucking was in the first place." I again moved my comments back.

A second editor, Mabuska, then arrived and chastized the first editor - Murry1975 - for moving my comments. Exasperated that the merger discussion was being derailed, I thanked Murry1975 for his support but politely asked him to keep his comments to the topic of the thread and not "refight the last 800 years of Irish history" as the two editors appear to be on different sides of that dispute based on their userboxes and I could see where this was rapidly heading once Mabuska cautioned Murry1975 he "shouldn't have moved them."

Issues: At this point Mabuska essentially began "unloading" on me. He dug through the last week of my edits and began linking to a comment I made in a completely separate discussion on an unrelated high-profile article Talk that had become heated. He used the AGF tag on my talk page to post a "baiting" comment. When I made a firm, but polite, request he stop posting on my Talk page, he simply continued to post on it. In the Talk section of the original article he savaged me with "I feel like cursing at you too considering the absolute bullshit you are coming out with" (]) in reference to my position statement on the merger proposal. When I politely asked him to indent his comments so they were properly threaded he shot back with "oh wait is this better your Indentedness." (]) He teased me as "antagonizing" in response to my request he stop using four-letter words in a merger discussion. (])

Conclusion: A simple two-article merger proposal has essentially been derailed due to this editor's sudden and inexplicable rage. I want to AGF but, frankly, it's rather hard to do so in light of the above laundry list of foul language and sarcasm and the more serious issue that the entire merger discussion is now essentially void since it's been overrun with this extremely aberrant behavior that seemed to explode out of nowhere. Through it all I have been extremely firm but demure in my comments, never using foul language and never yelling at Mabuska and Murry1975, even as the situation spiraled out of control, as a review of the discussion will demonstrate. At this point I think the situation can only be resolved by Admin intervention. I take this action reluctantly as I have never requested an ANI on another editor in my 3 years on WP. I have posted it here instead of Incidents because I don't want to generally see Mabuska be sanctioned as I don't know if this is endemic behavior as I've never interacted with him before, I'm just hoping some temporary control (e.g. temporary topic block) on the Talk page can be applied until the merger discussion can conclude. Thank you. BlueSalix (talk) 00:06, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm assuming you posted this as I said I would post an RFCC on me, you, and Murry1975 to see what they made of the behaviour? Regardless I will post a response seeing as you have started this for me:

• First of all in regards to the Duke of Edinburgh talk page, BlueSalix and Murry1975 got into a tizz with each other over the placement of comments and the forced moving of them.
• I came across the page when I noticed this warning given by BlueSalix to Murry1975 on Murry1975s talk page, which I am long term stalker of it as me and Murry collaborate a lot on Ireland related articles.
• I noticed this remark "You're creating an extreme amount of confusion in this Talk section, with the apparent intent of derailing the discussion to avoid this merger" directed by BlueSalix at Murry1975. I know Murry1975s edit style and never once can I say that this accusation stands to scrutiny and is a blatant personal attack because BlueSalix isn't getting their way.
• Thus I gave my view on the proposal and highlighted that BlueSalix's false claim against Murry1975 was not the first such false accusation they have made. This prior false accusation is this, and whilst I don't know whether it was aimed at me or User:Kahastok, it was uncalled for and unneeded and I took it as a personal slight.
• In response BlueSalix decides to once again start stirring drama by accusing me and Murry1975 of "to re-fight your differences as to the last 800 years of Irish history" despite the fact I agreed with Murry1975s position!
• In response I start getting annoyed and to a degree uncivil.
• Following this I decide to leave BlueSalix a WP:AGF warning on their stating what I see as the facts. Crucially I propose that if BlueSalix apoligised for the false accusations then I would tone myself down.
• In response BlueSalix posts this, to which I respond.
• The last interaction is back at the DoEA article where BlueSalix responded to me to which my last response was this, which I then striked.

Yes throughout it all I could of been more civil, however BlueSalix continued to antagonise by their behaviour, tone of messaging, and their blatant refusal to acknowledge their false accusations (one at me, one at Murry1975, and one at both me and Murry) and apologise for it when I stated that an apology would help.

However I must now counter fresh false accusations:

• "He dug through the last week of my edits and began linking to a comment I made in a completely separate discussion on an unrelated high-profile article Talk that had become heated. He used the AGF tag on my talk page to post a "baiting" comment". - firstly I never dug through his edits, as stated Murry1975s talk page is on my watchlist and it was BlueSalix's warning dished out to Murry that got me curious in the article to see what was happening. Secondly I was involved in the discussion that BlueSalix made that comment so I hardly had to dig through his edit history to find it. It would also refute that that was baiting comment when what I essentially asking for was an apology.
• "In the Talk section of the original article he savaged me with "I feel like cursing at you too considering the absolute bullshit you are coming out with" (]) in reference to my position statement on the merger proposal." - actually it was in regards to your false accusation about me and Murry1975 reigniting 800 years of Irish issues, it had nothing to do with your position and you full well know that.
• ""oh wait is this better your Indentedness."" - I have no defence, I stated that as I was being a smart-ass as BlueSalix seems to have some issue with the indentation of comments.
• "He teased me as "antagonizing" in response to my request he stop using four-letter words in a merger discussion. (])" - I'm assuming you mean "four-letter words", you are referring to curse words like f&$k? Where did I use a curse word other than "bullshit"? Where did you request I stop using four-letter words?

Yes this is a mountain made out of a mole-hill, however it is a mountain that was made worse by BlueSalix's antagonising behaviour and refusal to acknowledge and apologise for his uncalled for off-topic false accusations. This from an editor who kept going on about keeping on-topic and wanting "restrained and professional manner" discourse.

BlueSalix had a simple solution, a few words. They don't want to utter them and thus accept their guilt. I know I am guilty of being uncivil, but I've been antagonised. Mabuska 00:52, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Again, kindly stop referring to me as antagonizing. Thank you. BlueSalix (talk) 00:54, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

See what I mean? Instant ignoring of the core issue - BlueSalix's false accusations. Mabuska 00:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Hey just wait a minute!

• Firstly I didn't chastise Murry1975, I just stated that he shouldn't have done it. Considering I backed his opposition to your proposal, my comment about the moving of comments was an olive branch to show you I was not just agreeing with him because of your remark at the Falklands article, but because I agreed with the oppose regardless.
• Secondly you thanked me for the support not Murry1975, however your subsequent response made me reject it.
• Thirdly you made a serious error in judgement in trying to judge me and Murry1975s viewpoints based upon our user pages and user boxes and then expecting that to mean me and him are going to be at each others throats! We don't always agree but we work together quite a lot and never have a problem and even share in a bit of fun.

And in regards to this: "I have posted it here instead of Incidents because I don't want to generally see Mabuska be sanctioned as I don't know if this is endemic behavior as I've never interacted with him before, I'm just hoping some temporary control (e.g. temporary topic block) on the Talk page can be applied until the merger discussion can conclude.".

• Firstly why would i be topic-banned when the topic was not the problem?
• Secondly you interacted with me only four days ago at Talk:Falkland Islands replying directly to me so you cannot say "I've never interacted with him before".
• Thirdly, the thing with Misplaced Pages... everything is recorded. Mabuska 01:25, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

(1) Here's the thing - I don't know you and I don't know Murry1975 and I don't know the history of your relationship. I can only respond to your actions as I view them. Your actions contain a lot of "fuck" and "bullshit" and "your anatognizing" and oh my "Your Indenetdness" and I demand "you apologize," so forth, etc. etc. If this is all part of what you just describe is fun play fighting together, that's totally fine. I have no problem with that. What I'd like, though, is if you could keep the fun to userspace and let us use the Talk page to discuss merger requests as I keep asking. The merger request is basically junked now. (2) And, you're right, I did post a 9-word response once to something you wrote. Thank you for that reminder. The tone, topicality, and style of your posts in that thread may need to be reviewed as well as it appears you were trying to start a political debate ("Argentina's position is obstinate," "Argentina is the state acting all Imperialistic," etc.) instead of participate in an NPOV edit discussion. BlueSalix (talk) 01:37, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

For now, busy at the moment, I will make to comments.

Firtsly, against TPG, my "oppose" was moved by BlueSalix to beyond his added comments, I re-positined it to where it was origanally all, with I admit an uncivil comment- which I asked oversight to remove, it was a comment born of frustration, this can be seen in the history, I had templated the mover and I add a cmment to stop moving it. It was again removed with some talkpage discussion on both mine and BlueSalix, where he accused me of drama and hijack, also claiming his comments where were they origanilly where- no mention of his moving of mine.

Secondly I would like to thank Mabuska for leaving the tp notice about this ANI as BlueSalix seems to have included me without including me.

I have not been on wiki since last evening, I took a step away from here yesterday as to clam down, I apologise for my uncivil edit summary in its wording, but not the conveyance of angst it was born from, which I still feel, as my comment is still out of place and now looks out of context. Murry1975 (talk) 11:48, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

BlueSalix please by all means ask for a review, the only editor to cause trouble at [[Falklands was you and your issue with comments and indentation, you know that problem you had with User:Elaqueate and User:Kahastok that I did not get involved in, the problem that took up a good half the discussion? The same problem that you started at the Duke of Edinburgh article with Murry1975?

I would also like the diffs of where I used the word fuck as BlueSalix claims, it should be easy to find at least one as they claim I've said it a lot of times to them. Otherwise BlueSalix is failing to provide diffs that back up the vast majority of claims or related ones that show how such a turn of events became as they have. Also I would like to see a diff showing how me and Murry1975 where engaging in play fighting at the Duke of Edinburgh article. Otherwise BlueSalix is making yet more false accusations and I would like to cite WP:BOOMERANG.Mabuska 14:06, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

And just like Murry1975, I apologise for getting angry and letting it get the better of me, but likewise not for the conveyance of angst it came from. An apology for that depends on BlueSalix's ability to acknowledge their guilt and apologise for it. Mabuska 14:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

First - I didn't accuse you of saying "fuck." (see my OP for a specific list of the issues I've raised with respect to your extremely aggressive style of addressing other editors) / Second - As for "An apology for that depends on BlueSalix's ability to acknowledge their guilt and apologise for it." I'm not going to address that. This isn't Judge Judy; I'm not looking for apologies or punishments, declarations of guilt, or public beheadings (also, as per my OP). As per my OP, I am here to seek assistance in getting the extremely aggressive style of commenting that has derailed a merger discussion under control as interpersonal appeals have thus far failed. (I'm also not sure what I'd apologize for - I think you're upset that I asked you and Murry not to use the merger thread to have a debate about Irish history. I stand by that request 100%, but if you'd like me to apologize for it and if that will get things calmed down, okay, I apologize. I still would rather you take political debates to user space, though.) Thanks, Mabuska! BlueSalix (talk) 15:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Murry1975, I realize your original move of my comments (]) was a GF mistake on your part and, while I'm sorry you became very upset in addressing it (as you've acknowledged), I consider it water under the bridge. That's why I didn't include you in this ANI. For my part, I'm sorry that - in the process of undoing your original reshuffling of my comment - that your comment also ended up getting moved. Manually undoing edits can sometimes result in confusion. Thanks, Murry1975! BlueSalix (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Well thank you for finally apologising (on at least one thing), however it would appear you don't totally grasp what I wanted you to apologise for, and thus it comes across as kind of hollow. You also need to accept your role in causing this mess with your false claims (which you continued to add to in this discussion here) and the statements you have made here that are contradicted by earlier statements by yourself. Like even now you can't help but make up false claims... "I'm not looking for apologies or punishments" - so you never called above for me to have a temporary topic-ban? "I still would rather you take political debates to user space," - what political debate? Me and Murry1975 never engaged in one, and no-one mentioned Irish politics until you did. If that was in response to the Falkland discussion, I explained that statement at the end of the discussion, where I told you it was explaining what the text in the article is referring too! Does it ever end? At least I accept my part in it. I'm abstaining from any more responses unless an admin asks me something. Mabuska 18:14, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Mabuska - for the fourth time, the only issues I have, or have raised, are in my OP with linked diffs and I stand by all of them. Everything subsequent that I've written is right here for people to read. As such, it is really not constructive to pick out a sentence here or there of my posts, quote it, and then introduce an interpretive "so what he's saying here is ..." This kind of dramatic intrigue is how a routine 200-word ANI gets turned into the Nuremberg Trials, and is exactly how my simple merger thread got trashed as well. I would kindly ask you to dial it down a little and just let the ANI run its course. Thanks, Mabuska! BlueSalix (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

BlueSalix, maybe you should read what the admin rote on your tp. My moving my comment back was right your continued re-positioning was wrong. So the apology about my mistake isnt accepted, I will follow the admin comment on your page and correctly position it, I will take your apology then. Murry1975 (talk) 10:38, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I really don't believe Moriori had given you a carte blanche to continue to edit my comment from where I'd posted it and I believe you are seriously misinterpreting our conversation if you think he did. However, if you make the choice to continue to rearrange other editors comments to alter the intent of the original author, to pepper your edits with "fuck" and so forth, then honestly, there's really nothing I can do about it, other than to continue to politely ask you to to please stop and to empower yourself to edit in a non-combative spirit. I don't believe in edit-warring and I don't subscribe to a take no prisoners approach to Misplaced Pages. It's just not my style. Thanks, Murry1975! BlueSalix (talk) 17:46, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Through out my interaction with you BlueSalix you have continually displayed an attitude of ignoring what is actually said, either by others or in the process which you dont agree with.

"Murray1975 moved his oppose comment back to the top where it originally was. He had every right to do so and if that created collateral damage to your subsequent posts, then you would know why and could have amended them."

Every right to do so

I edit in a non-combative spirit. Its usually to the point- even to the extent I will answer everything point for point.

It is you who is continually personal, as pointed out above commenting, very incorrectly on my interactions with Mabuska, the 800 years comment. I put one f-bomb in an edit summary, I didnt "pepper" it anywhere, so thats a falsehood and a another personal attack. So with your rhetoric of non-combative editing I am sure you are going to strike that? Murry1975 (talk) 09:30, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Murry1975. I've said many times that I accidentally moved your comment in the process of trying to reconstruct my own comment that you kept moving. I've been unambiguous on that point so I really don't know what else you're hoping to get out of me here. As for your accusations that I've now been making "personal attacks" within the ANI itself, I'm not going to address that. The issues I raised in my OP I stand by and are absolutely the only issues I'm going to discuss here. I'm confident WP admins are literate people and can read everything written in this thread without the need for interpreters or lobbyists. If an admin feels something I said merits sanction, I trust in her or his judgment to recognize it and to act appropriately. Thanks! BlueSalix (talk) 18:22, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Moving it once is an accident moving it three times is totally untolerable. I am sure the admins reading this will see what you have written. You cant address it without admiting it. Good day. Murry1975 (talk) 23:14, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

As previously stated, I moved it three times because I had to thrice repair your three edits to my comment and your words were getting wrapped up in a copy of a block of text. I certainly wasn't manually retyping it every time. You made a series of three complex positioning edits to my comment and, in trying to repair what you'd done, I touched your words. I acknowledge I touched your words. I've said I'm extremely sorry as it clearly upset you, but mistakes sometimes happen in life. That's a mistake. We deal with it and move on, just like we did. Yelling four-letter words or engaging in an unusual and aggressive style of commenting that has the effect, intended or not, of running a thread off the track is not a mistake. That's the OP of this thread and that's the only topic I'm here to discuss. Thank you. BlueSalix (talk) 03:03, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

"your three edits to my comment ", I never edited your comment. Please show the links. I suggest you stop with all these falsehoods. Murry1975 (talk) 12:16, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm requesting that an admin take a look at this so that it can be done with. Though just to make it clear for BlueSalix for when they say they are only looking to discuss what they raised here: if you are going to raise an issue, then expect the accused to give their view and their reasonings as to why they have acted the way they did. Whilst the topic of this is not about you but me, it is vital to the discussion to highlight the fact my responses to you at that time and throughout this where a direct result of your false claims, which you continued with and then added a heck of a lot more too throughout this discussion. You are constantly ignoring to acknowledge and accept that you made false claims that resulted in me becoming aggressive - that is the key vital component of this whole issue.

Here's a further example: "Yelling four-letter words or engaging in an unusual and aggressive style of commenting that has the effect, intended or not, of running a thread off the track is not a mistake. That's the OP of this thread and that's the only topic I'm here to discuss.". You raised this AN against me and my behaviour yet I never yelled a four-letter word (fuck) at you or anyone. Murry1975 said "fucking" in an edit-summary, but that was borne out of frustration. So there wasn't even a four-letter word, never mind words, which implies multiple use. Also add in the fact anyone looking at everything above will see that you can't be trusted to tell an accurate or reliable event of things. Mabuska

If you three don't stop rehashing your argument here, no one is going to bother dealing with it and it will be archived with little to no action, WP:TLDR and all that. I highly recommend you stop now and let others (who might be bothered at this point) read through the diffs and make comments as frankly, this is getting ridiculous. Blackmane (talk) 10:33, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Massive problem, definitely Misplaced Pages is about to end, and probably the entire world

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I went to add myself to Misplaced Pages:List of administrators aged 50 or more and found it does not exist. Guy (Help!) 23:31, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Redirect to Logan's Run. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Like ​—DoRD (talk)​ 23:37, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Ha ha! here too! Guy (Help!) 00:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

42? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:35, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

WHAT? The FILM? Sheesh. Only the radio show is canon, you should know this. Guy (Help!) 00:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Um, should I volunteer to help fill the gap? I'm sure my RfA would be uncontroversial AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:49, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Support, very diplomatic candidate. Bishonen | talk 09:08, 30 January 2014 (UTC).

Ha. He thinks 50 is a problem. Walk a mile in my shoes, youngster. Roxy the dog (resonate) 00:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Shoes? When I were a lad we made do with old newspaper and string. And bloody grateful for it we were too... AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:14, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

You should retire from being an admin, and return to the more sane life of an editor. Leave it to the Young Turks. Dicklyon (talk) 04:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Now, now. Let's not put any more on the poor Turks than we'd put on anyone else, no matter how old they are; that's nobody's business but theirs, anyway. It's rough out there in Constantinople, don'tcha know. GJC 03:10, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I too would now find myself in the admins-over-50 category, which amazes me, because I more and more find myself echoing the famous comments of Isaac Asimov:

"I still consider myself a child prodigy. I'm now the world's oldest child prodigy. I'm in my late youth. (aside) I call it 'late' because it's dead."

More seriously on this subject, we should all pay tribute to this retiring administrator. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

There are probably more of us admins heading for 70 than is realised ;) Greatest respect for the retiring admin - at 18 years his junior I'm still a kid by comparison. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:42, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the clock is unforgiving. No three revert rule. No terms for vanishing and returning. I, being on the wrong side of the median, see both youthful ideology balanced with the wisdom and reality of time. To the extent I am able to live beyond my years, I strive to achieve but alas am thwarted by vandals, admins, and their kin. --DHeyward (talk) 06:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

MONGO dinks dats poetic...--MONGO 14:37, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

The youngest admin I know of was I think 11 when he got the mop. We now have a retiring admin at 83. That's quite a generational span across our admin corp. WJBscribe (talk) 12:42, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Care to link to the 11-year-old's RfA? Joefromrandb (talk) 18:11, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

• I'm still young. Although by medievil standards I'm ancient. ES&L 12:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

• Um, why not just create the category? Or, better yet, create a userbox that auto-gens inclusion in the category pbp 19:56, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

East Germany

Discussion has flared up yet again regarding the historical description of East Germany. Participants in the various discussions over the years have never been able to reach any formal consensus as to what should be used. This article falls within the scope of Arbcom discretionary sanctions. Apart from having attempted on a couple of occasions to moderate the discussions, I have not expressed any personal opinion and I'm not vested in any eventual outcome. However, I feel it is time for this situation to be addressed, and perhaps some admin discussion here as to what should be done to resolve the situation (rather than the content itself) would be appropriate. See talk:East Germany. 01:12, 28 January 2014 (UTC)Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk)

• 1.) Why "admin discussion", rather than "community discussion"? All editors should be allowed their say as to what actions admins should take to resolve the situation.
• 2.) Your declaration that that the page falls under discretionary sanctions has been challenged by more than one editor, so perhaps Arbcom should be consulted for clarification. Joefromrandb (talk) 02:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

It is not clear that this article comes under discretionary sanctions and no reason why it should be discussed at AN. The discussion was recently re-opened by an IP who appears to be sock of a blocked user. (see SPI) I suggest blocking the account now, rather than waiting for SPI. TFD (talk) 02:41, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately SPI claims require evidence. Really. Collect (talk) 09:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

184.145.64.67 has been blocked as a sockpuppet of R-41 . --TFD (talk) 17:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

WP:NFCC#9

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Can an admin please remove File:Seal of Haryana.jpg from all non-articles? most of the uses are being created via templates, which I cannot remove it from. Werieth (talk) 13:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Most of the uses of this image were removed with this edit to Module:Portal/images/h. Now its up to the job queue to catch up, or you can force it with a null edit to each page. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

RfC of interest

Administrators and other editors here may perhaps be interested in Misplaced Pages talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#RfC about listing discussions. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:45, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

ISSUE REQUIRES AT LEAST SOME ATTENTION (over 24 hours)!!!!

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I know that you are watching for vandals, can you kindly watch this guy user talk:200.219.132.104. He is now under user talk:200.219.132.103 and still does destructive editing. Check his edits here and here and many where else. And over here someone gave him a right to revert, so he reverted a bot. Could you be so kind to intervene, as his edits look a lot like destruction.--Mishae (talk) 02:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, frankly, I am not such a good vandal watcher. I raise a flag every now and then. It does not seem that his actions are destructive, although are weird. It seems that he is correcting some code syntax to keep consistency. Did I miss anything? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, he put spaces after every carriage and that's his edits. He also substitutes RU and UK icons with (Russian and Ukrainian) which makes difficult to see which site is English and which isn't. According to WP:DEST his edits are considered to be unproductive and in some cases harmful since because of his mania to put spaces he sometimes deletes titles. More, he even substitutes cite news with Citation which makes no sense. Since I don't have revering tool I was forced manually to cite references as well as add those icons back in the Euromaidan article. I could have done more ref citations if not for this guy.--Mishae (talk) 02:57, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, let's address it with administrators for consideration. The articles are too big to track after all the changes and codes. Your concerns are valid and need to be addressed by somebody with bigger authority to prevent possible roll backs in future. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I already let user @Kudpung: know, but I think he will be too busy to reply. See, on one hand he had a good edit such trans_title= for foreign articles but on the other hand he doesn't need to move the carriages back and forward and substitute already good text with something less appealing.--Mishae (talk) 03:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, have you posted the issue at WP:ANI? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, guess what? I went to ANI, the admin told me to post it to AVI (Also he mentioned that some of the IPs were from Brazil). I posted it to AVI and they removed my comment (twice) at the end saying that it doesn't belong to ANI! I thought that Misplaced Pages have measures against disruptive editing???!!! Like, do anybody at ANI consider the seriousness of this or its O.K. now to do edits like this without any consequence what so ever. Furthermore, a guy here mentioned about a destructive edit and at the same time says "I fixed it now, but it doesn't warrant a block" and sends a ref to a minor edit. This is ridiculous because I wasted posting those comments till 1 fucking am, trying to convince the admins (which I shouldn't even call them that anymore) to take action. And what's worse, it continues! And this, is after my revert. Although the edit is good overall substitution of Sfn for ref name= doesn't make any sense, also editing author link as Pope Paul VI instead of his biographer's name. Like I smell that his next edit will be here and what's the point?--Mishae (talk) 20:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, Kudpung gave you a good advice filing petition at the "Requests for page protection". That way it would be possible to establish some control over the page. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:44, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, yea, it is pretty frustrating. I apologize for sending you there. I will try to address it with Russian administrators such as Ezhiki, may be it will be more productive. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:36, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

You know, what's even worse? Is that I reported them not 1, not 2, but 4 IP addresses which were doing the same edits from Brazil and one more from somewhere else. I'm shocked that while other users receive at least a thank you (let alone a barnstar), I get ignored by the whole Misplaced Pages community regarding disruptive editing, which as we all know is a no-no here.--Mishae (talk) 20:46, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Mishae, are you following on your posts at ANI or AVI? What is the section title? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

O.K. I requested a protection on most of them. Lets see what gonna happen.--Mishae (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Link one and Link two both of which were from AVI.--Mishae (talk) 21:00, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Callanecc (talk · contribs) issued a short term rangeblock. I'm too busy to look but I'll keep an eye on it and make sure it gets some attention. NativeForeigner 07:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you both! Hold on, take my words back, what's this? diff--Mishae (talk) 21:37, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

No need for that; it's just that rangeblocks don't show up in the block log for individual IP addresses. It's still blocked. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:51, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, never knew it. Thanks! After so much time of chasing those IPs I am glad that somebody put a firm hand on it! Thanks again!--Mishae (talk) 00:37, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

WP Canvassing

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There is WP Canvassing on the Yemen article by MiddayExpress. He has contacted: AcidSnow, Inaytiy and Til Eulenspiegel, editors he has had close interactions with in the past in pro-Somalia articles, none who have recently or extensively edited the Yemen article. He has not contacted the Non-Pro-Somalia or other users that have edited the Yemen article extensively or recently. Looking at his user history it seems he and the other editors involved have routinely WP:Canvassed each other on other topics relating to Somalia and Arabs, especially Inaytiy and AcidSnow, and MiddayExpress has edited his page often (by archiving and removing posts by these users in order to respond only on their talk page) to disguise the frequency of this. I don't have time to dig in but these actions are common on Arab-related articles by these users probably due to issues relating to Somalia's contested status in the Arab League/Arab World (Somalia's attempts to integrate with Arab World, and rejection by many Arab states for various related reasons). Whatever the case this WP: Canvassing by these pro-Somalia editors is destructive to the Yemen and other Arab articles. YemenWarriorBoy (talk) 09:54, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

The following editors were mentioned: @Middayexpress, AcidSnow, Inayity, and Til Eulenspiegel. Please notify anyone you report here. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes but for it to be illegal we would all have to share Middayexpress POV, which is certainly not always the case, and he is very conscious that me and him do not always agree, nor does he automatically take my side just because I call him to look at something. There is zero evidence of me jumping in and defending his position--none. And as a Pan-Africanist I for one am not an advocate of making Somali people into Arabs, 100% this is not my politics (the opposite is true).--Inayity (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Actually, per appropriate notification, "an editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion can place a message on the user talk pages of concerned editors examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics editors known for expertise in the field." Inayity, AcidSnow and Til Eulenspiegel are some of the main, regular contributors on the Horn of Africa-related articles, so that would certainly apply to them. As for the obvious socking by the newly registered YemenWarriorBoy account, note his non-existent prior contribution history , this messageboard post as his very first Misplaced Pages edit, his self-professed familiarity with the details of the ongoing content dispute with the Yemeni User:Kendite's alternate account, his self-professed familiarity with veteran Wikipedians, his Yemeni username, and his familiarity with Misplaced Pages protocol and Wikilawyering. This is evidently no newbie. Middayexpress (talk) 18:23, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Personally, if I would have been a Somali, I probably would have been at rage if someone would have called my people Arabs, even if they are merging into Arab League (I don't follow on the current events from those nations). I know one thing; correct me if I am wrong, but Somalia is a part of African Union. My condolences to YemenWarriorBoy who probably feels as offended as any other editor is.--Mishae (talk) 21:54, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

The dispute had nothing to do with the Arab League. It was over the identity of specific field slaves from Africa that cultivated palms in Yemen. The AL story was just one of the various things that the "newbie" YemeniWarriorBoy made up. Middayexpress (talk) 22:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

YemeniWarriorBoy is now indefinitely blocked as a sock of User:Kendite. Middayexpress (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

O.K. Since he is blocked, we can close this discussion. Thanks for the explanation. Never knew that users can made up stuff. Was it at least referenced?--Mishae (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

The article

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What do you think about Nottinghamshire blood bikes? Is it worth working and improving? Since I am a blood donator myself, I would like to help on this article, but only if there is notability. --BiH (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

1. This is the wrong place to ask for help with an article. For future questions like this, you could try Misplaced Pages:Teahouse, or maybe Misplaced Pages:Editor assistance, or ask at an appropriate wikiproject such as Nottinghamshire, England, Medicine

2. The person who started the article has the username Bloodbikes (talk · contribs) which isn't appropriate - see WP:ORGNAME. I've reported that here. It's not a huge deal, they can just change name - but it's worth being aware that they very likely have a conflict of interest.

3. Unfortunately, I don't think there should be an article about that org, because it lacks significant coverage in independent, reliable sources (WP:GNG). 2 short mentions in the local paper aren't really enough to satisfy that. Therefore, the article is likely to be deleted. I searched, and was unable to find any other coverage.

Of course, if you or anyone else could find appropriate references to show that it is notable, go for it. Otherwise, no... sorry.

It's a shame, because of course it's a very worthy org. And I'm from Nottm. But rules is rules. 2.123.67.6 (talk) 15:02, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Admin who knows templates needed to fix fully protected, broken, and little watched template

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Can some admin who understand these things take a look here at the talk page of Template:WikiProject Latin America? There's an error in the code and it's messing up a lot of talk pages. The Template is fully protected. There's been an edit request there for a few days with no response and I'm worried no admins watch the page. TIA, — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

•  Fixed by Technical 13. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:13, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Heads up

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In view of this second verdict of guilty a close watch will probably be needed on Amanda Knox. Moriori (talk) 21:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Khabboos

This is an incident. Please see the thread of the same name at WP:ANI. Nyttend (talk) 00:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Orel Hershiser's scoreless inning streak/archive1

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I got a little confused following a page move. Could someone move Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Orel Hershiser's scoreless inning streak/archive1 over Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Orel Hershiser's scoreless innings streak/archive1.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:21, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Monty₈₄₅ 05:28, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

United States Public Policy talk page archive number 1

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1. Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject United States Public Policy/Archive 1
2. Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject United States Public Policy/archive 1

Can an admin please merge the talk page history of these two together to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject United States Public Policy/Archive 1? Future archiving will go to the 2nd archive, so this one is now only historical in nature, but for uniformity and standardization, name of the archive should be upper-case "A" at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject United States Public Policy/Archive 1.

Thank you,

— Cirt (talk) 06:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I've moved the page with the lower-case "archive" title to the standardised name. Graham87 07:49, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Graham87, much appreciated! :) Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Notification of a TFA nomination

In the past, there have been requests that discussions about potentially controversial TFAs are brought to the attention of more than just those who have WP:TFAR on their watchlist. With that in mind: Fuck (film) has been nominated for an appearance as Today's Featured Article. If you have any views, please comment at Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/requests. Thank you. Bencherlite 12:34, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Do you require any admin action? If not, this can be archived; please let me know. Personally, I find it hard to understand why people in this century consider that specific nomination to be any different to any other. I can kindsa understand that the word sets off alarm bells, but Christ, it's being hacked out on Jimbo's talk and other places - I can't think that any admin intervention is gonna help at this stage. Thx. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:24, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

SEO spamming - a heads' up

Not sure where to post this, but it appears SEO-seekers are using dead links to spam their own links in hopes they won't be discovered. Not sure what action can be taken, but this is surely of some interest. — foxj 17:00, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

rofl. Well, one can hardly expect scummy people to behave like anything but scum. Resolute 22:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

There are other ways besides this to insert inappropriate links with little chance of being noticed, which I think better not to explain here in detail. I had not thought of this one, but there is even the possibility that the replacement for a dead link might be appropriate. DGG ( talk ) 19:03, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

blocking 208.180.10.131 for vandalism

I reported 208.180.10.131 (talk · contribs) for vandalism at Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Each and every all of the IP's edits from 2006 to date are acts of vandalism. The user has been warned several times but appears to have ignored all warnings. User: Admrboltz warned the IP but did not block him. I discussed the matter with Armboltz on his talk page, where I suggested the IP be blocked for a limited duration and Armboltz responded that 3 months is hardly limited and that I may consider bringing the matter here. I suggest the IP be blocked for 3 months, although I would support a shorter-duration block (say 1 month) if that's the community's consensus. IjonTichy (talk) 23:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

We generally don't block after a single disruptive edit if there are no recent warnings, so I think Admrboltz handled this correctly. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:18, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Mark, are you referring to the Education and warnings section of the blocking policy? Because the same policy also says "users acting in bad faith, whose main or only use is forbidden activity (sockpuppetry, vandalism, and so on), do not require any warning and may be blocked immediately."

We warned the IP in Sept., Oct. and Nov. 2013. All warnings were ignored and the IP vandalized again in Jan. 2014. Warning them again is unlikely to be productive. Blocking for 1 month may be more productive at this time, with escalating blocks if the disruptive behavior continues. IjonTichy (talk) 03:29, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

IP is from "suddenlink.net" - an ISP.

Has made a total of 22 edits, in 3 'batches',

• 2006 (Feb-August, but hey, long time ago), 5 vandalism edits
• 2013 May/June 4 vandalism edits (silly stuff, nothing terrible)
• Sept-Nov 2013, 6 edits, silly low-key vandalism
• 31 Jan 2014, one edit, - hard to tell if that is vandalism.

Benefit of the doubt; it's an IP address. They've been warned about the recent issue and that seems appropriate, but I don't think anything further is necessary (or helpful) at this stage. Doesn't seem to mbe enough to consider it Long-term abuse for now.

Conclusion/opinion:Not worth doing anything else right now; standard warnings should be sufficient. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:02, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

I suggest someone closes this thread, because it's unlikely that this vandal - who made 22 edits in 8 years - is going to cause a major problem for Misplaced Pages. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:02, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This is a shared IP, so its edits probably come from by multiple users, and thus the person editing in September who was warned may not be the same person editing yesterday. It's also very possible that the person editing yesterday was unaware of the content of the IP's talk page. It has been over 24 hours since they have been warned and they haven't vandalized again, so I'm not sure why you think the warning wasn't productive, seems to me like it worked. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:04, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

I now agree with 150 and MA that the warning posted on the IP's talk page appears likely to be sufficient at this time. Asking that this discussion be closed. Thank you 150 and MA for sharing your views and helping move this discussion forward. IjonTichy (talk) 02:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

The Tampa Bay Devil Rays

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Could an admin please create The Tampa Bay Devil Rays as a redirect to Tampa Bay Rays? Thank you.Hoops gza (talk) 00:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Done. Why couldn't you do it? I'm not complaining: I'm asking if you can remember the message that the software gave you when it refused to let you do it. Nyttend (talk) 00:33, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

This one as well I am not allowed to create: The Devil Rays as a redirect to Tampa Bay Rays. Could you please create it? To answer your question, I have posted the error message below:

Permission error

You do not have permission to create this page, for the following reason: The page title or edit you have tried to create has been restricted to administrators at this time. It matches an entry on the local or global blacklists, which is usually used to prevent vandalism.

If you receive this message when trying to edit, create or move an existing page, follow these instructions:

Any administrator can create or move this page for you. Please post a request at the Administrators' noticeboard. You may also contact any administrator on their talk page or by email. Be sure to specify the exact title (especially by linking it) of the page you are trying to create or edit, and if it might be misunderstood (for example, an article with an unusual name), consider explaining briefly what you want to do. If you wrote any text, save it temporarily on your computer until you can edit the page.

Thank you.

Now, I suggest protecting both of these redirects after they have been created because I think I know what the problem is; people were probably starting to write on that era of the franchise's history when the team went by that name.Hoops gza (talk) 00:39, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

No, that definitely wouldn't be a reason for blacklisting. Weirdly, the title blacklist prevents the creation of all pages with "Devil Rays" in the name because there was once a spat of "creations and pagemoves by a serial vandal" related to this. I think I'll look into its removal; thank you, since I wouldn't have known what to look for otherwise. Sorry for the typo in the original creation — I've worked with things related to Birch Bayh for several years now, and I type "bayh" far more often than "bay", so my fingers instinctively put the "h" after the "y". Nyttend (talk) 00:51, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Fresh pair of eyes, please

It's obvious that Abington Friends School is quite notable. It's also filled with copyvio and reads like an advert. Request help weeding it out.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:39, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

 Doing... 88.104.24.150 (talk) 20:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done

BTW, this is a content issue, and nothing to do with admins, so should not be here on AN.

Someone pls archive this? Ta. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 20:37, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Lifting of Topic Ban

Here I was topic banned on Falkland Islands topics. After more than 6 months I would like to take up the Standard Offer and ask that the topic ban be lifted. In doing so, I would draw attention to the fact that it has been acknowledged that I remained WP:CIVIL throughout the episodes that led to this ban. I did make an attempt at an appeal some months ago and at that point had somewhat of a Damascus moment in response to a remark made by User:FOARP and in further conversation with User:Dpmuk. I realised that an error in my conduct was to vociferally respond to accusations made by other editors, and now realise that is fundamentally a mistake, giving the impression of a battlefield mentality. I have edited trouble free after taking a wikibreak (to be honest after retiring with the full intention of quitting for good) and on my return I have edited in some quite controversial areas without any hint of the problems that lead to my topic ban. For example at Talk:Black Egyptian hypothesis my comments in response to a post at WP:NPOVN were well received by all sides (). I have been receptive to feedback on my behaviour (for example from User:EatsShootsAndLeaves here) and have managed to edit constructively acknowledging my mistakes. I have a mentor User:Nick-D, whom I consult over any problems I have, and at Nick's suggestion I agree to a voluntary 1RR restriction on Falklands topics. My intention is to resume a number of articles I have in my sandpit José María Pinedo, Esteban Mestivier, Antonina Roxas, which are articles on notable subjects in early Falklands history which have been requested by the Falkland Islands workgroup for some time. To be clear my intention is to resume content creation, which was always what I most enjoyed in Misplaced Pages Matthew Brisbane being an example of the sort of article I like to create. In the interests of full disclosure, I do have problems with PTSD stemming from service in the Balkans with the British Army. I do struggle with depression and I have been diagnosed with an acute anxiety disorder. Wee Curry Monster talk 10:40, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm supportive of the topic ban being lifted on the condition that WCM sticks to 1RR on articles concerning the Falkland Islands as he's promised above. I've been keeping an eye on WCM's talk page and have discussed a few issues with him, and it's clear that he's now approaching discussions and disagreements in a calmer and more productive fashion. As such, I think that there should be few risks involved with him editing Falklands-related topics again. Nick-D (talk) 10:57, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

I've not had a chance to look into their recent actions but I'm fairly sure I was on the fence last time they asked and as they've not come to my attention since I'm happy to try lifting the topic ban. Dpmuk (talk) 14:37, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support lifting topic ban - if it causes a problem in the future, it's easily dealt with; and I get the impression that WCM knows that, and knows people will keep an eye on it. No concerns. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 20:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support lifting topic ban - Wee Curry Monster's knowledge and insight will be valuable on Falklands pages, and the above demonstrates that there is little risk of future behavioural issues. Kahastok talk 21:47, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support lifting topic ban. It's an obvious net positive for the encyclopedia, and the steps taken (as outlined in the appeal) seem adequate to prevent it from causing any problems. I've also reviewed WCM's contributions in another dispute he's recently been involved in, and do not see any ongoing significant problem in behaviour or approach. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:02, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
• Comment I started doing some general cleanup in some of the articles you contributed to and your statement that your intention is to resume content creation raises some issues that I don't think you've addressed before. We recently cleared out a lot of word-for-word copy violations added by a different editor, unrelated to you, that are relevant here because they involved most of the pages that touch on Falkland Island topics. My concern is that, while helping, you restored copy-violating text in order to work on it, and I'm hoping that you agree that in the future, it's better to work on that material somewhere other than the mainspace and that copy vio problems should be treated with sufficient care. __ E L A Q U E A T E 22:06, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Is it relevant to raise a May 2012 edit here? Nick-D (talk) 23:23, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The issue of copy vios seemed relevant enough to this editor to complain about being muzzled about a week ago, so I had a small concern. I hope it turns out to not be relevant. __ E L A Q U E A T E 23:35, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support lifting topic ban – Wee Curry Monster's highly competent, knowledgeable and valuable contribution to a variety of Falkland Islands topic articles (not only) has been missed during these months, and I have no doubt that lifting the ban (which was hardly justified too) would be beneficial for Misplaced Pages. Apcbg (talk) 08:09, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Comment I apologize but I have to be blunt: Wee Curry Monster is a highly pro-British biased editor concerning topics such as the Falkland Islands or Gibraltar. This wouldn't be a problem if his behavior was acceptable, but WCM seems to believe to be above Misplaced Pages's policies and goals, or at least he has his own interpretation for them and rejects other views.

User:Elaqueate has been doing some cleanup in the FI-related articles, addressing major issues to WP such as copy vio and original research. This has been faced by User:Kahastok opposition, as can be seen in FI sovereignty dispute's talk page. I know Wee Curry Monster enough as to know that these interventions are the ones that motivates him to return editing on this topic: it is not articles themselves but the discussion of original research and sources what he feels urged to resume. The supreme example of this is Pascoe and Pepper's Getting it Right (originally from here but now removed). He revealed to User:Nick-D and User:Diannaa that this source copied content from WP, written by himself. This paper has been repeatedly pointed out as a self-published source; and not withstanding all this, WCM would defend this source at all cost (see ). What I'm trying to say is: his behavior is not only problematic in articles themselves but also on talk pages, project pages, etc. How are admins intending to keep an eye on this?

Also, I'd like to point out that WCM and Nick-D have been wiki-friends (and it seems outside WP too) since before I started editing. I don't think that he's the most appropriate person to be his mentor, as it seems that a) WCM has been receiving Nick's advises since long time ago, and b) a pre-established friendship creates a conflict of interests on Nick-D's assertion about Wee Curry Monster. --Langus (t) 19:36, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Người Bắc Kỳ

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It sounds like racist. It means northern vietnamese people not Vietnamese people.--Namnguyenvn (talk) 13:08, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

You have already started a redirects for discussion ... no need to post here DP 13:38, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

비가 , 서스 ​​캐처 원 의 호수

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i am trying to translate an article (lakes of biggar,saskatchewan) into korean; but it won't let me. how could i do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.89.95.149 (talk) 15:13, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

This is not the place to make a Korean translation: you should do that on the Korean Misplaced Pages. See Misplaced Pages:Translate us for advice, and note that you need to provide attribution to the authors of the English article by placing the {{Translated page}} template, or rather its Korean version ko:틀:번역된_문서 on the talk page of the translated article. JohnCD (talk) 17:34, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

International edit-a-thon today = newbies to avoid biting

Hey folks. As a heads up, Misplaced Pages:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism is happening in 24 cities around the world today. If you notice any small extra influx of new pages or edits in certain areas (obviously art and feminism especially) please keep in mind that this may be edit-a-thon participants. The good news is that the vast majority of new editors participating will be there with experienced Wikipedians too, and thus can get a helping hand if you send them a talk page message about anything they need to correct or amend. Many thanks, Steven Walling • talk 18:24, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Off-topic, moved to Misplaced Pages talk:Administrators' noticeboard#Non-admin things on AN

Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:Administrators' noticeboard § Non-admin things on AN Why does this relate to admins in particular? (Ie, why AN?) I'm quite used to lots of editors wrongly assuming admins are 'special' when it comes to content, but it's not great that a WMF employee thinks that way. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 20:12, 1 February 2014 (UTC) Interesting question. I wonder what the interesting answer is going to be? Eric Corbett 20:17, 1 February 2014 (UTC) I anticipate a lengthy meaningless Machiavellian schpeil...but perhaps I'm just jaded. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 20:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC) (Just because I'm editing with my volunteer account at the moment.) I just tried to give people a courtesy heads up. Sure, I could have posted on the WikiProject Editor Retention Talk page, some other Wikiprojects, and maybe the New Page Patrol or AFC project talk pages. But I figured if anyone was going to come and complain about some unannounced flood of new editors on artist bios etc. they might come to AN or ANI. If you don't think it's relevant, go ahead and close the thread. Steven Walling • talk 20:58, 1 February 2014 (UTC) Walling, you are correct that "if anyone was going to come and complain about some unannounced flood of new editors on artist bios etc. they might come to AN or ANI" - however, my point is, they are wrong to do so. It's likely content-issues, not admin-issues, and surely the more we can do to dispell the myth that admins have any authorieh over content, the better. It would be cool if WMF could enourage that attitude. Hoping you understand. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:05, 1 February 2014 (UTC) I guess what I mean is, "two wrongs don't make a right". If people post here about content, I can explain why they're in the wrong place and redirect them appropriately. But if WMF employees post here about content, that makes it look like I am wrong to do so. Does that make more sense? 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:07, 1 February 2014 (UTC) I moved this thread over to Wikipedia_talk:Administrators'_noticeboard#Non-admin_things_on_AN because if I did not, it'd be hypocritical. Hope that's cool. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:17, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

"keep in mind that this may be edit-a-thon participants" - why? Are their edits supposed to be treated differently? Is this an office edict? 88.104.24.150 (talk) 21:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Of course it's not an edict. That's not even remotely what WP:OFFICE is about or for. Also: I'm using my volunteer admin account for a reason. We have separate (WMF) usernames to separate out when we're doing work for the WMF and when staff are just editing for fun. I repeat this disclaimer on my userpage, like most staff do. Steven Walling • talk 21:49, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Cool; in that case, I'll treat you the same as any other editor posting to AN about content. Closing. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 22:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

It's a sad day when the community needs to be reminded of WP:BITE and WP:AGF for these types of outreach events. OhanaUnited 07:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Move assistance

Please help move Riddarholmen Church to Riddarholm Church. The grammatical (Swenglish) interpretation of the Swedish name is incorrect. It's like Church of the Noble Island now, but should be like Noble Island Church. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Please supply a reference to a reliable source, thanks. 88.104.24.150 (talk) 01:14, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Google Books ngram supports the claim. Why isn't this discussion at WP:RM? Favonian (talk) 08:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Because I was overwhelmed here and did not have time then to research the page and try to find out how to do this right. It looked extremely time-consuming for what I had hoped was as rather simple thing. Sorry!

Shall we move this there? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:46, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:50, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

A strange situation (perhaps)

I was doing some NPP when I came across this. It was created by User:Stanfordpandabot. I purposefully did not notify them as I am not necessarily seeking intervention by a sysop and it could be confusing to (them?), but rather asking for information on how this needs to be handled, if at all. On the user page it states that the account is shared between multiple people, however they also claim to be students. Is there some kind of action needed here? Quite frankly the article is borderline non-notable but perfectly referenced, and the account's editing patterns seemed like so many other paid ones (Wiki-PR and friends) which is what initially caught my eye. But AGF and all that. If we somehow allow students to share accounts then I guess there's nothing to be done here. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't biting anyone nor ignoring something that required action. §FreeRangeFrog 00:36, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Notified, 88.104.24.150 (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• To my knowledge, we don't allow that. Perhaps the education project team could be useful here? Pinging User:Ragesoss - it's important to find out whether it's an approved educational assignment (and we know whose hand to lightly slap) or not. Thanks for reporting it, and for your NPP work :). Ironholds (talk) 01:21, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

We don't allow students to use multiple accounts, but they commonly do anyway if they aren't receiving guidance from established Wikipedians. I'd guess that this is a legitimate in-progress class (since somehow I do know off the top of my head that the mentioned professor is in fact a professor at Stanford, and that he does teach that class,) but one that hasn't received formal guidance. It's fairly common for instructors to hear about the idea of a Misplaced Pages-based assignment without realizing that we do offer hands-on support. I think it's fairly likely that the professor mentioned is using some sort of assignment that involves Misplaced Pages, and that he didn't realize we have course pages/in-person support/etc. I'll reach out to the students and professor at some point later later today or tomorrow as I have time, but if someone else really wants to beat me to it, please feel free (though please do let me know if you do.)

Tangentially, we don't quite have a formal process for approving student assignments, and since we can't really stop them currently easily, I'll usually grant course instructor privs to anyone is actually a course instructor, even if I don't agree with their instructional design and/or think it's going to be a trainwreck and even if the instructor refuses to take feedback - that way if it turns out to be one, the mess is much easier to clean up. Kevin Gorman (talk) 02:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the outreach and explanation, Kevin. It'd be nice if we did have such a process - that way we could drive informal assignments towards the education programme and some actual structure and support :/. Ironholds (talk) 02:44, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I've made contact with the professor, and will be reaching out to the students today or tomorrow. (Broken foot has my on the slowside still.) Ironholds: I agree with you wholeheartedly that such a process would be nice. There's a lot of stuff about the USEP that isn't ideal. Unfortunately, with the amount of stuff I'm juggling in my volunteer time currently, I just don't have the time or energy to put in to a significant revamp of how the USEP currently functions. I suspect this is true of most other involved volunteers. I agree it needs a revamp, but without more support on the compensated end, anything that happens for now is going to be of the half-assed variety - which really is unfortunate. I think the USEP has a huge amount of untapped potential, but it'll take a lot of thought to get right, and likely a systematic revamp and series of RfC's to get everything implemented - and I doubt that anyone who isn't WEF or WMF staff even potentially has the spare capacity to get it ship-shape. Sage and Jami do a lot of important work, but a lot of it is patching holes in the ship more than anything else. (And we certainly do try to drive informal assignments towards the education program even as it stands currently.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 03:26, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

m:Requests for comment/Global ban for DanielTom

Hello, per m:Global bans, a general requirement of a global bans request for comment is notify all projects where the user subject to the ban has editied. DanielTom is either an active editor or a past editor of this wiki and therefore I am notifying the project of this proposal. Everyone is welcome to go and voice their opinion of the proposal and about the user in general. Thanks, John F. Lewis (talk) 03:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration Clerks seeking new volunteers

The Arbitration Committee clerks are currently looking for a few dependable and mature editors willing to serve as clerks. The responsibilities of clerks include opening and closing arbitration cases and motions; notifying parties of cases, decisions, and other committee actions; maintaining the requests for Arbitration pages; preserving order and proper formatting on case pages; and other administrative and related tasks they may be requested to handle by the arbitrators. Clerks are the unsung heroes of the arbitration process, keeping track of details to ensure that requests are handled in a timely and efficient manner. Clerks get front-line seats to the political and ethnic warfare that scorches Misplaced Pages periodically, and, since they aren't arbitrators themselves, are rarely threatened with violence by the participants.

Past clerks have gone on to be (or already were) successful lawyers, naval officers, and Presidents of Wikimedia Chapters. The salary and retirement packages for Clerks rival that of Arbitrators, to boot. Best of all, you get a cool fez!

Please email clerks-llists.wikimedia.org if you are interested in becoming a clerk, and a clerk will reply with an acknowledgement of your message and any questions we want to put to you.

For the Arbitration Committee clerks, Rschen7754 04:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Discuss this

FFD backlogs

Just to let you know, files for deletion are backlogged as far back as 24 November. I tried tagging the pages from 24 November to 10 December with the admin backlog banner but the tags were removed by AnomieBOT. I also listed them (mistakenly) on 1 January at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure but the request was removed by Armbrust, but not moved to the right place, hence why these are still backlogged. Cloudbound (talk) 14:55, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages noticeboards
• Administrative backlog