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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Azerbaijan (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Interfase (talk · contribs)
• Divot (talk · contribs)
• Kreodonta (talk · contribs)
• Taron Saharyan (talk · contribs)
• Grandmaster (talk · contribs)
• Hablabar (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

In my opinion, the map "Russia at the Caucasus" of 1847 year with the term "Azerbaijan" could be used in the article as it describes the using of this term in history. But user Divot is against of it. He thinks that there is some error on the map, but there are no sources claiming that. It is just Divot's own opinion. There are enough sources saying that the term "Azerbaijan" was used for the lands on the north of Araks river as it's shown on the map.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussion on the talk page.

How do you think we can help?

I'd like an outsider to judge matters from the viewpoint of Misplaced Pages policies and conventions: are separate articles warranted, or not? The conclusion of mediator will stop edit warring on this issue.

Summary of dispute by Divot

The map is wrong, Details on TP

Moreover, I asked a well-known historian Bournoutian, his answer: "The map is wrong. The word Azerbijan is written in another font and script--compare it to Georgia. It is impossible to put Erevan and Lake Sevan in the so-called Azerbijan in 1847-- since it was until 1840 the Armenian Province and after that the Erevan Guberniia.". Divot (talk) 20:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Moderator removed the map from the Russian Misplaced Pages

User Kreodonta three times returns the map (, , ) without a word on a talk page. Divot (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Kreodonta

Summary of dispute by Taron Saharyan

Summary of dispute by Grandmaster

I believe the map is a historical source, and such could be used in the article to illustrate the relevant chapter. Grandmaster 18:52, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Hablabar

• Arguments by User:Divot are sound and solid, nearly perfect. Interfase, please avoid POV pushing. Hablabar (talk) 02:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
• Under a closer inspection I came to the opinion that this "map" is a Photoshop-ed fabrication: different fonts, etc. Hablabar (talk) 00:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Azerbaijan discussion

Coordinator's note: This case has been relisted due to its premature archiving due to having been originally manually listed on February 12. I've readjusted the "do not archive until" date to reflect the original listing date, plus a day or two to allow for it having been off the list. I had added Kreodonta and Taron Saharyan to the original listing because at the time this was first listed they had not been involved in the discussion but had been very active in the edit war at the archive page; they've not edited since February 12, however, so it may be possible for a DRN volunteer to achieve a mediated result without their participation. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 18:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I put notices and reminders on the talk pages of all participants. Let's see who comes to the negotiation table :-) -- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:44, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

24 hour closing notice: The dispute on this has apparently died away at the article for the moment, but it's also a perennial dispute which keeps coming back up and then dying out. Frankly, I rather suspect that this will continue until there is a RFC at the article talk page which successfully attracts enough editors to create a clear consensus one way or the other. If no such RFC is filed or if it ends in a weak or no consensus, this will probably just keep recycling in and out. If most everyone who is currently involved in the dispute does not show up here by 17:00 UTC on 20 February 2014, I'm going to close this as futile. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 16:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC) I'm withdrawing the 24-hour closing notice now that Grandmaster has joined here. — TransporterMan (TALK) 20:06, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I didn't changed my mind. Divot's arguments are not reliable. He claims that the map is wrong. But it is just his own opinion. There are a lot of sources saying that the term "Azerbaijan" was used also for the lands on the northern part of Araks river. In the map we can see it clearly. Divot refers to Bournoutians words, but they are not published in reliable sources. The arguments of Bournoutian are not logical and not reliable. So there are no any proofs that the map is wrong. Divot and other users want to remove this map just because they don't like it. This issue needs solution. --Interfase (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Three points:

• I don't think the other three editors are essential to this discussion and am opening it for discussion.
• I have to say, however, that I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out either the benefit of or the objections to this map. It's being inserted as part of the Etymology section of the article. Pursuant to the Pertinence and encyclopedic nature section of Misplaced Pages's images rule:

  Images must be relevant to the article that they appear in and be significantly and directly related to the article's topic. ... Images are primarily meant to inform readers by providing visual information. Consequently, images should look like what they are meant to illustrate, even if they are not provably authentic images.

  So that sets the ground rules for the use of this image. Divot objects to the image on the basis that it's inaccurate, but that objection is only meaningful under that rule if the image is inaccurate for the purpose that it is "significantly and directly related" to in the content of the Etymology section (unless, of course, it's just being used as a general image for the article and just happens to be in the Etymology section, but I don't believe that to be the case). And I'll be darned if I can figure out what significant and direct relation it has to the Etymology material. Can someone enlighten me?
• The fact that the image has been used or not used on any language Misplaced Pages other than en-Misplaced Pages is irrelevant. Every Misplaced Pages sets its own standards for the exclusion and inclusion of material and interprets and applies them differently, so decisions made at a different WP have no bearing here.

Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:06, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

For the "Etymology" section this map is more relevant. Divot (talk) 21:27, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I think to show the "Azerbaijan" at the period when the name "Atropathena" was transformed to "Azerbaijan", this map is a good example. The borders of Atropathena (Azerbaijan) are also shown. --Interfase (talk) 08:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Since both of you seem to agree that there are better maps than the one in dispute in this DRN listing, can the two of you go back to the article talk page for a discussion of which of those might be a better map for that section and we can close this dispute? Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:45, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the first map could also be used in the article. It shows that in the history the term "Azerbaijan" was used also for the lands on the north bank of Araks. Because most readers can think that the term was used for the territory of Azerbaijan Republic only in 1918. But this is a myth. As we can see the term "Azerbaijan" was used for this territory in the begginings of the 19th century as well. And the discussed map is the best example, which shows this. --Interfase (talk) 21:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with this (first) map. As I wrote at the TP, the map contains factual errors. In addition, Bournoutian says that the map is wrong.

There are a lot of maps of the region. I don't understand why we need to use obviously wrong map. Divot (talk) 01:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Cannot agree more with Divot. This particular map is nonsense. Should be publish "maps" where medieval sailors designate places with dragons and mermaids? Hablabar (talk) 02:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you want to say "Again agree with Divot"? )) Divot (talk) 08:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Of course. LOL - "Cannot agree more with *someone*" Это такой речевой оборот в английском. Именно это и означает. Hablabar (talk) 18:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm confused. By "first map" are we talking about "Russia at the Caucasus" or about "Ancient countries of Transcaucasia"? If we've gone back to talking about Caucasus, I presume that Interfase's comment, above at 21:34, 21 February 2014, is in response to my second bullet point, above, but I don't see what that argument has to do with the meaning of the word "Azerbaijan" which is all that the Etymology section is about. It's not about what territory the term includes, it's only about how the word originated. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:22, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I wrote new section about the name of Azerbaijan, were I showed how this term was used in different periods of history. As you can see there are a lot of sources showing that the term "Azerbaijan" was used and for the lands on the north of Aras River. I think we can add the map "Russia at the Caucasus" into this section. --Interfase (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Saint Francis High School (La Cañada Flintridge) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Evrik (talk · contribs)
• John from Idegon (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Whether or not 1) two entries were referenced 2) whether the references were appropriate.

After the initial removal of the information, I found two references. Those were deemed to be not sufficient, so I have now been reverted 2 x. One reference was from the school's facebook page, and the second was from the Congressional record. Those two references should be enough for those small entries.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussing it on my talk page.

How do you think we can help?

Convince JFI to stop Misplaced Pages:MOLEHILL. These are small points on the page and the references are good. Template:DRN bottom

Summary of dispute by John from Idegon

Saint Francis High School (La Cañada Flintridge) discussion

Egypt at the 2012 Summer Olympics

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Egypt at the 2012 Summer Olympics (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Canadian Paul (talk · contribs)
• Raymarcbadz (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

User:Raymarcbadz has a history of content blanking Country at XXXX Season Olympics articles (not enough room to paste diffs here, but they can be provided upon request) and refuses to accept content in these articles unless they are structured his way. He has been reverted for these actions in the past, but continues to ignore the consensus, claiming that similar articles don't look that way. Now, at Egypt at the 2012 Summer Olympics, he is removing content and restructuring the article in ways that are contrary to WP:MOS (such as having material in the lead that is not in the body, a violation of WP:LEAD, see ) We wouldn't have good articles like Great Britain at the 2010 Winter Olympics or 1346 without people going above and beyond to create in-depth articles that standout from the usual content production of similar articles.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussion has thus far been ignored, so aside from reverting (which I don't want to do), this has been the first step.

How do you think we can help?

Since I am heavily involved in Egypt in the 2012 Olympics, I am requesting some additional help in discussing this issue to maintain a cool head and prevent myself from aggravating the dispute (or someone to tell me that I'm flat out wrong, so I can move on). I'm aware that this isn't a perfect case for dispute resolution, but it's also sort of inappropriate for WP:ANI, so if there's a better place to take this, please let me know.

Summary of dispute by Raymarcbadz

Egypt at the 2012 Summer Olympics discussion