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Chemistry C‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chemistry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of chemistry on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChemistryWikipedia:WikiProject ChemistryTemplate:WikiProject ChemistryChemistry C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Medicine: Toxicology C‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Toxicology task force (assessed as Low-importance).

A news item involving Neonicotinoid was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 2 May 2013.

Untitled

That one section has a bunch of non-linking footnotes. Was this copy & pasted from somewhere else? 207.216.172.73 05:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Apparently from here, copyvio. Deletion request would be needed. --Calvero JP (talk) 07:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

This page needs to talk more about the utility of neonicotinoid pesticides and less about colony collapse disorder. While this pesticide may well be a contributing factor to that problem, it would be unrealistic to not mention the other reasons for which this pesticide was developed. As things stand, this "softer" pesticide is less likely to have off-target effects on other beneficial predatory arthropods while still taking down the target pest. I don't have the time to dig up cites or add it to the article, but for anyone ambitious with a background in IPM... this would make a good quick project. Aderksen (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the thinking that this material is safe is all in the minds of those who sell or use this material. Bee colonies pick up this material in "off target" plants that take this material up in the root systems, and pass the toxic mess on to the flowers and other tissues, including pollen and nectar which are in good supply in some of these off target plants. Fields when planted in the customary way of single spieces plantings like just almonds, grapes or whatever that take up the entire field and don't in any way have a holding spot or safe zone for off target spieces of both plants and insects are at risk of extreme buildups of destructive insects that ruin any chance of a profit from the field grower. Multi-crop plantings are the answer to single crop plantings. This will allow for a single row of many different kinds of food plants to be cultivated in the same spot but just in different rows in a alternating and mixing of the rows comes more insect diversity and a healthier product due to being bitten by that very insect. The plants make stress proteins and antioxidants to cope with insect pressure and increase the quality of the plants nutrient values when consumed. Keith Newton is a professional beekeeper in the United States of America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.192.3.226 (talk) 19:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The noun phrase "a possible connection to Colony Collapse Disorder which is the result of honey-bee populations collapsing." doesn't make sense as written; it's like saying that cancer is the result of tumors. I will re-phrase it to "a possible connection to honey-bee Colony Collapse Disorder.", which says the same thing less confusingly. Scutigera (talk) 18:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

This page needs work

I agree with Aderksen above and would like to begin improving the content on this page consistent with the Chemistry Manual of Style and WP's standards for citing sources.

For starters, I'd like to suggest following the sort of topic headings used for 2,4-D, another pesticide chemical, that focus on encyclopedic content for the chemical(s). I believe it's consistent with the Five Pillars of Misplaced Pages to have the fundamental facts about the chemical take precidence over speculative content and inadequately researched scandals widely broadcast in the blogosphere and mass media. From Misplaced Pages:NOTCRYSTALBALL:

While currently accepted scientific paradigms may later be rejected, and hypotheses previously held to be controversial or incorrect sometimes become accepted by the scientific community, it is not the place of Misplaced Pages to venture such projections.

Also, from wp:CHEMMOS#Current_events:

Accidents and incidents occur all the time. While their scale and magnitude may merit inclusion in Misplaced Pages on grounds of notability, that such an accident has occurred is not sufficient justification for inclusion in the context of an article about chemicals...To reiterate, if such accidents are sufficiently notable, they should have their own article (e.g. discussion in Bhopal disaster, not in methyl isocyanate).

The topic headings I propose are as follows: Intro, History, Active Substances, Use, Mode of Action, Toxicity, Environmental Hazards and Risk Mitigation, References, External links

Thoughts --USEPA James (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Did CCD continue where neonicotinoids were discontinued?

Since France, Germany, Italy, and Slovenia suspended the use of neonicotinoids, it should be feasible to find results of colony collapse disorder losses in those areas. However, my lack of familiarity with the governments and languages of those countries has made it difficult for me to find the official statistics. The closest I've got so far is this Herald Scotland news report which mentions the bans but doesn't report the resulting statistics. Does anyone know where to find those? Npmay (talk) 21:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Aha! A little more digging and an email exchange found this report from multiple authorities in Italy including university researchers and beekeepers who all say their neonicotinoid ban completely halted their CCD losses. I am certain this should be included in the article, but I hope to track down peer reviewed reports if possible. Npmay (talk) 01:58, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Two new articles in Science implicate neonicotinoids in colony collapse disorder

From Science magazine tomorrow:

"Five years ago, bees made headlines when a mysterious condition called colony collapse disorder decimated honey bee colonies in parts of the United States. Now bees are poised to be in the news again, this time because of evidence that systemic insecticides, a common way to protect crops, indirectly harm these important pollinators. Two field studies reported online this week in Science document problems. In bumble bees, exposure to one such chemical leads to a dramatic loss of queens and could help explain the insects' decline. In honey bees, another insecticide interferes with the foragers' ability to find their way back to the hive. Researchers say these findings are cause for concern and will increase pressure to improve pesticide testing and regulation."

More popular treatment summarization is available from the BBC. 70.58.11.42 (talk) 23:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

And NYT. See http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/science/neocotinoid-pesticides-play-a-role-in-bees-decline-2-studies-find.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.129.128.7 (talk) 13:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the studies and the NYT article. Here is another source: . This entire article needs a lot of editing to include recent information. IMO, the German bee kill incident information should be cut back since it was an accident and it is well known that bees die when exposed to a large amount of these (or almost any) pesticides. I will work on the article when I have time. Gandydancer (talk) 13:43, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

"Use of Common Pesticide, Imidacloprid, Linked to Bee Colony Collapse" in a Harvard School of Public Health study. 71.215.74.243 (talk) 18:27, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Where do they come from?

It like to see commentary about the source of neonicitoids both how they were developed (are they based on an existing natural molecule?) and how they are manufactured. Kevink707 (talk) 22:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Edits to lede

This edit to the lede was, despite good intentions of the editor, an oversimplification of the facts, as well as perpetuation of some slightly misinformed publications. (meta note: is there a better way to link to a diff?)

"neonicotinoids block a specific neural pathway that is more abundant in insects than warm-blooded animals" copied from here: UFL

Edit: That was probably paraphrased from here: extoxnet, which specifically states it hasn't been updated since 1996 and may be out of date.

This statement is simply false, and it shows up on every neonicotinoid-related page I've looked at.

I am trying to clarify information about the basis of insect specificity (including potential mammalian toxicity) while also adding information about why they were needed (organophosphate and carbamate extreme toxicity). I hope this addresses some editors' concerns.

– monolemma t – 05:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Chemistry - Error in Picture ?

In the picture comparing imidacloprid with nicotine, the nicotine molecule looks like a quaternary amine. "true nicotine" does NOT contain a quaternary amine! So this seems to be not correct!? Sadorkan (talk) 04:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The structures are correct. Because nicotine is a base, at physiological pH it will be protonated. It will exist as the ammonium cation (though it is not a quaternary amine). -- Ed (Edgar181) 13:09, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

To protonate an Amine means the same. The Hydrogen core is an Proton (I'm usually using Sodium hydroxide for protonating Amines. But I don't believe that in-vivo-conditions like "in neutral aqueous solution" are basic enough for that - (with exception of Enzyme - they do not need protonating agents): there are many in-vivo Amines like Dopamine or externally Amines like Morphine, if when these are being protonated, they will fail to act in usually manner - (some works like antagonist instead!)..... Sadorkan (talk) 15:54, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Quaternary amines and protonated amines are different. Quaternary amines have no hydrogen atoms on the nitrogen (they are not protonated) - they have only alkyl/aryl groups on the nitrogen atom. Sodium hydroxide cannot be used to protonate an amine. Amines are basic and often protonated in neutral aqueous solutions and biological media. The pharmacology of amines will at times be dependent on whether they are protonated or not; and certainly some amines will exert a pharmacological effect only in the protonated form. -- Ed (Edgar181) 16:15, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

What health precautions are possible for people with nicotine allergies?

I don't see anything on this in the article. 173.66.211.53 (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Offering up this story for editors to use as possible source material for a future edit

http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/arable/neonicotinoids-pose-low-risk-to-bees-defra-studies-show/54485.article Title - Neonicotinoids pose 'low' risk to bees, Defra studies show Given the topicality of this subject it is good to have as much information as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve virgin (talk • contribs) 14:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

needs to get through peer review, but even then, it's the honeybees suffering from CCD, not bumblebees. 70.57.45.119 (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

USA-centric

I posit that this page could be improved with a more international approach to regulation status. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.89.193.148 (talk) 22:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Nithiazine

...seems to be removed from the list of currently commercialised neonicotinoids.
While nithiazine is not practicable as a agricultural insecticide, it is still in use as an insecticide per se, primarily in some fly baits (e.g. the product "QuikStrike" fly bait, possibly others).
While this may appear to be a niche use product and quite possibly, the market value of nithiazine sold per year is nowhere near those mentioned in the table, it shouldn't be only mentioned in passing by as the lead structure which served the developement of the whole class, being of "academic interes only".
As long as it is manufactured and commercialised, it should be noted as such, notwithstanding its niche position compared to other nicotinyls. Cheers,--147.251.68.9 (talk) 14:41, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

One-sided?

This article makes it seem like there's a scientific consensus that neonics are a/the problem in bee health, since it (at length) spells out the research linking neonics to bee deaths. That doesn't seem to be the case -- for instance, this article cites plenty of scientific research saying that neonics aren't the problem. I have no stake in this, but I'm suprised a wikipedia article is so one-sided on what seems to be a contentious issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:F140:400:A002:9284:DFF:FEF3:FFE5 (talk) 02:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree. It also seems to suffer from WP:MEDRS issues too in some areas, namely overusing primary sources that are subject to being exploratory studies that can be easily overstated. I'm an entomologist who works with pesticides, but don't have any stake in the bee side of things, so I'll keep this article tagged to see if I can work up some of the scientific consensus end of things if I get some time in the future. Kingofaces43 (talk) 05:19, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Links to bee population decline

I recently removed the Journal of Insectology reference from this section. I noticed other issues with this section as well, but figured I'd mention it here since I won't have time to edit the section more in-depth for a bit. Remember to be mindful of WP:MEDRS where we should try to avoid citing primary scientific literature as those studies have not been replicated. Currently this section reads as a synthesis of primary research, and our job as editors is not to do that, but to summarize the current scientific consensus, which this section doesn't really seem to be addressing so much. We should be using secondary literature (i.e. review articles) such as this: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/etc.2527/full

With that in mind, any thoughts on how to improve this section? At some point I'd like to rewrite the section according to what the secondary literature actually says so far, but that likely will mean a lot of material being changed in this section, so I figured I'd see if anyone else had points they think should be addressed here before that happens.Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

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