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already brought the case to the attention of admins ... mentioning both your names--] (]) 14:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
already brought the case to the attention of admins ... mentioning both your names--] (]) 14:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
:You mean you posted on a semi-protected noticeboard so I would be unable to respond without logging in. Please read ]. I have been trying to discuss this content dispute with you on this talk page, but you jumped ahead and complained about me to the admin corps without making ''any'' attempt to use the talk page. ] (]) 14:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
:You mean you posted on a semi-protected noticeboard so I would be unable to respond without logging in. Please read ]. I have been trying to discuss this content dispute with you on this talk page, but you jumped ahead and complained about me to the admin corps without making ''any'' attempt to use the talk page. ] (]) 14:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
== Third Opinion ==
{{rfc|bio}}
If the person mentioned was a member of a nationalistic religious group why should this be omitted from the introduction? As a matter of fact the introduction per se needs no references anyway.--] (]) 17:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
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I removed the unqualified claim that he was a "nationalist" from the intro. One of the two sources cited was a 2006 PhD dissertation that was about about a religious and quasi-political ideology with which he was affiliated. The problem is that even though that source appears to be, in its brief coverage of the subject of this article, directly associating Kenji's politics with those of his co-religionists, it also specifies that hardly any other reliable sources make this connection. This means that the source is not sufficient for the claim that "Kenji Miyazawa was a nationalist"; it is sufficient for the statement "A minority of scholars have attributed nationalistic leanings to Miyazawa". The view is WP:FRINGE. I don't mean "fringe" in a derogatory sense. I just mean it is a view that is "not widely held among the academic community yet". Kenji scholars can duke this issue out in journal articles and scholarly books. If at some point the scholarly consensus becomes "Kenji was a nationalist" (i.e., a scholar makes the specific claim that this is the consensus view and is not called out by his/her peers) then we can add this statement to the article. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 13:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
If this is going to elevate I should admit outright that I am this user. I'm editing logged out for reasons.
The reliable sources all state that he was a member of a religious group. I've read numerous books and articles that state he adhered strongly to the religious views of this group. None of them mentioned the politics of the group, or hinted that he himself shared the political views of the group's leaders. The only source that does imply he shared these views also admits openly that this is a minority view.
(EDIT CONFLICT) Why did you revert me again without trying to discuss here first?WP:BURDEN says that the burden is on the party wishing to add information to the article that to find source that specifically support said information. I provided a coherent argument that your sources do not support your claim but in fact contradict your claim. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Also, since I'm arguing that "he was a nationalist" is a minority view and so it is inappropriate to make this claim per WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT, I would draw your attention to WP:TERTIARY: Reliably published tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other. I wonder if you can find a reliably published encyclopedia or similar whose article on Miyazawa Kenji states "Miyazawa Kenji was a nationalist"? 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
It turns out not only WP:BURDEN but WP:BRD is also on my side here. This claim was unilaterally and boldly added to the article by Catflap08 in January, challenged by another user (not me) in April before being re-added again, without justification, by Catflap08. Since the default position should be "leave it out", I'm going to remove the claim again, and if Catflap08 attempts to re-add it without discussing here, I will take it as an indication that he/she is unwilling to use the talk page and our dispute will need to go to WP:FTN or WP:ANEW. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
You mean you posted on a semi-protected noticeboard so I would be unable to respond without logging in. Please read WP:SHOOTFIRST. I have been trying to discuss this content dispute with you on this talk page, but you jumped ahead and complained about me to the admin corps without making any attempt to use the talk page. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
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If the person mentioned was a member of a nationalistic religious group why should this be omitted from the introduction? As a matter of fact the introduction per se needs no references anyway.--Catflap08 (talk) 17:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
