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Archived talk: 2004 2005 2006

Makarov

Hi there, Ezhiki! I just thought that if I add 10 more people, I will have to add their birth and death dates. Their dates are (or will be) listed in the articles themselves, anyway. You are free to restore them, if you wish. However, you will have to add more dates for other people then in order for a disambig page to look nice :). KNewman 12:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Aren't you one lazy butt! :) See, this is what happens to people when they move to Moscow—you are becoming one of them!  :)

Anyway, all kidding aside, WP:MOSDAB#People asks to provide the dates of birth/death only when you know them; it does not require all entries to be formatted identically in that regard. The bottom line is that it's OK not to add the dates for new entries, but there is really no reason to remove the ones that are already there. I'll add this dab page to my to-do list (although I can't guarantee that I'll find all the dates), but if there is an easy way for you to add dates when you expand the pages in future, that'd be swell. Cheers, and keep up a good work—I'm really glad others took interest in these dab pages.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Hello, I dislike infoboxes intensely, because they encumber the pages without adding anything of value. As most Russian city articles are stubs, I envisage the nightmare which the arrival of infoboxes may cause here. Image jams and template jams are guaranteed. People would start flooding the stubs with silly coats of arms. Actually, I can't see any point in infoboxes. They usually repeat the information given in the text and make the articles, especially stubs, look overcluttered and slovenly. We should improve and expand the articles, add the coordinates properly, before embarking upon this risky infobox affair. --Ghirla 13:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that infoboxes are useless, but completely agree that adding them at this point of time in their present form is going to be a mess. The positive side of infoboxes is that they can include information that otherwise simply pollutes the actual article (former names, town status year, jurisdiction, population trends, coordinates, official website, coats of arms (what's wrong with having those, by the way?), etc. etc.). Having all this basic information in one place cleans up the article and allows editors to see immediately if anything is missing—not an easy feat when all this info is scattered around in bits and pieces of text. It also helps determine if the article is indeed an article, or just a long stub with Rambot-like narrative statistics. The down side, of course, is that adding an infobox to the majority of Russian city/town geo-stubs in their present form would leave nothing in the text body, and that the current infobox layout is too generic and contains too much information irrelevant or poorly applicable to Russia. Anyway, if an infobox developed to specifically deal with Russian cities/towns is created, if image layout issues are resolved, and if such a template is added in a way that does not diminish the quality/visual appearance of an article, and if it is only added to the articles that have content covering issues beyond simple stats, would you, well, if not support, but at least be neutral to such an initiative?—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course I would be neutral if the issues are resolved. Yet I don't see how it could be done. If we move sparse extant information in geo-stubs to the infoboxes, then we could do without any text at all. In most cases, the infobox would just absorb all the data that there is in such articles. --Ghirla 14:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Yup, that's why I think it's too early at the moment to worry about infoboxes at all. But if WikiProject Cities is going to be an unstoppable tank "requesting" infoboxes to be added left and right, we'd better have an decent Russia-specific infobox that works than one that's ugly, generic, and "for-galochka". I'll try to put something together when I have a moment and announce it on ru-noticeboard for everyone to comment (and they'd better).—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 14:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Moscow Metro

Can you please lock the article from edit wars and participate in discussion as well. --Kuban Cossack 23:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There could be less edits if you could explain why your position is more correct. I see now only your desire to protect own edits. That's happened to reorganisation of metro lines articles, which made them easier to read. But you reverted edits with no explanations. Elk Salmon 23:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Please let me know when you are in agreement so the article can be unprotected.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 00:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Flag of Kaliningrad Oblast

This is apparently the flag of Kaliningrad Oblast -- can you confirm this? FOTW doesn't mention anything, but then again, they haven't got any flag for Tambov yet, and AFAIK the flag in Tambov's article is correct... Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 23:03, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope, it's not it, this is. Well, will be. The flag was accepted by the oblast duma last Thursday; however, it will not have official status until the Governor signs the law and the law is published. Shouldn't take too long (unless the governor refuses to sign off). I see someone already added the new flag to the Kaliningrad Oblast article; I have commented it out until the flag is truly official.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! What was the blue-yellow one, then? And any news on flags for Perm Kray, Novgorod Oblast and Pskov Oblast? —Nightstallion (?) 14:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure, but if I remember correctly it is one of the 2005 drafts that had been voted down and declined. As for the Perm/Pskov/Novgorod, I have not heard anything, but I'll re-check the feeds when I return from vacation in about a week and will certainly let you if I find anything of interest.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 14:56, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, yet again. =] —Nightstallion (?) 14:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:CYR, no more lacinka

Well I feel that there is no more point to hold on so I made the proposal a policy, I put a note on Portal:Belarus and if, say in 24 hours I recieve no new proposals for re-entering lacinka into Belarusian titles I will begin moving the articles, and for this I will need your help as an admin who can fix redirects. OK? --Kuban Cossack 14:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

As long as there are no objections, it is no problem. Just list redirs that need fixing on my talk page, and I'll take care of them tomorrow.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 15:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

CrazyRussian's RfA

Revel Governorate

In Administrative divisions of Russia in 1727-1728 is mentioned "Revel Governorate (Ревельская губерния) was considered subdivided into 1 province (Estland)" On the Dutch wikipedia we currently have a debate about the actual name of this governorate between 1719 and 1783 (at nl:Overleg:Gouvernement Estland). As far as I know (from this website) the name in Russian was Ревельская губерния between 1719 and 1783, then Ревельское наместничество until 1796 and afterwards Эстляндская губерния. However the Estonian wiki doesn't mention Revel Governorate at all (et:Tallinna asehaldurkond). This german pdf-document about Livonia uses the word Estland for this region during this time (and not 'Reval'). Now I was wondering where you obtained the data which is mentioned in the article Administrative divisions of Russia in 1727-1728 (and the other division reform articles of this time referring tot this guberniya). Not that it would change the outcome of the debate, as it is about the Dutch name for this region in this particular time, but because I am curious if the Germans and the Russian state perhaps had a different name for this territory. --Hardscarf 22:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Hardscarf! I was using a great variety of sources to compile the History of the administrative division of Russia series, most of which were unfortunately lost in a hard drive crash about a year ago (which is the main reason why I put further work on this series on hold). I'd have to pretty much re-do all the research to restore the timeline. I do, however, remember that the statement that "Revel Governorate was considered to be subdivided into one province—Estland" comes from Konstantin Arsenyev's 1848 work "Статистические очерки России" (Statistical Sketches of Russia). Here is what it literally says:

Сохраняющаяся въ Государственномъ Архивѣ роспись губернiй и провинцiй 1727 года (Разр. XVI, д. 11) даетъ возможность подробно очертить областное дѣленiе, какъ оно установилось въ началѣ эпохи...

::...

::IV. Ревельская губернiя: составляетъ одну провинцiю, совпадаетъ съ Эстляндiей.

::...

which is roughly translated as:

The list of guberniyas and provinces of 1727, which is kept in the State Archives, makes it possible to describe the regional division as it was established in the beginning of the period...

...

IV. Revel Governorate: makes one province, matches Estland.

...

Note, however, that Arsenyev does not literally say that the one province the Governorate made was called Estland (he merely points that it matches Estland). I tried to mirror this approach when writing the article. I know it sounds vague and ambiguous, but so does the original source. The other source I used—Yury Gotye's 1913 "История областного управления в России от Петра I до Екатерины II" (History of the regional administration in Russia from Peter I to Catherine II)—is just as vague. Gotye provides a list of guberniyas and their provinces as they existed in 1727, but the entry for Revel Governorate simply states 1 province (Estland). The best way to find out the truth, of course, is to get to the mysterious (Разр. XVI, д. 11) of the State Archives Arsenyev mentions, but I have no means to do so. The next best thing is to find Speransky's "Полное собрание законов Российской Империи" (Complete code of laws of the Russian Empire), but I was unable to get access to it either.

As for your other questions—it is correct that Revel Governorate was reorganized into Revel Viceroyalty in 1783, and it is also correct that it was renamed Estland in 1796.

Sorry if it wasn't of as much help as you expected. I lost way too many truly irreplaceable materials to provide a more detailed answer, especially about how the region was called in other countries. Still, feel free to ask me any specific questions you might have—I might be able to answer them.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 14:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Dmitry

I would welcome your comments on this page. --Ghirla 10:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Done.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 16:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Astapovo

Do you have some more info about this place (Astapovo)?? It would be great if you can add something more to it. I've created the basic article... It's of special interest as Leo Tolstoy's death place.

:)

Pratheepps 10:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I moved this article to Lev Tolstoy (settlement), because it was renamed in 1918–1920 and re-wrote the article altogether, adding whatever pieces I was able to find on the web. If I find any more reliable sources, I'll revise the article correspondingly. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 16:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you. It's nice to note the additional details !! :) Pratheepps 05:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

BGN/PCGN

Hi Ezhiki,

Thanks for your explanation. My point is that the BGN/PCGN publications are not presented as titles (I see quotes nor italics). Instead, the article provides a listing of BGN/PCGN romanizations of a number of languages. That's why I'd prefer to refer to the languages using their common names. Please also not that Lappish is considered to be offensive. --Benne _(talk) 12:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation, Benne. The BGN/PCGN publication used to compile the article is listed in the Reference section. While I realize "Lappish" is offensive, it is an unfortunate fact that the publication uses it, so this fact needs at least to be mentioned. So, how about leaving the main text as "Northern Sami" as you proposed and adding a footnote explaining that it is not the name BGN/PCGN use to refer to the language?—Ëzhiki (Igel Hérrisonovich Ïzhakoff) • (yo?); 13:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding a footnote stating that the original publication uses the name Northern Lappish sounds perfectly fine to me! --Benne _(talk) 10:27, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Amurensis

Why Igel Herrisonovich Izhakoff? Who is/was that guy? It's just my curiosity. It's your decision anyway :). KNewman 17:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It's me :) See Igel, Hérisson, Ïzhak.—Ëzhiki (Igel Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Administrative centers

So, having already had some words with you on the matter, I thought I'd toss an idea to you. As you're aware, the names of 2nd- and 3rd-level jurisdictions don't necessarily indicate their administrative center, although they often do. Since part of the project I'm working on (which is what led me to comparing the Komi article to the Komi republic web site) involves me digging up this information, do you think it would be useful to incorporate that information? (Like so:)

Lensky (Ленский); administrative center Yarensk (Яренск)

It seems the best feasible way to provide that detail -- one which is sort of necessary for someone to get an idea of where the areas are in many cases. (The best way would be getting the articles for each district up, but that's going to be a herculean effort. In a perfect world, every oblast/krai/republic would have the same level and detail of coverage as every US state already does, and every raion would have the same level of detail as US counties. But I digress...) Anyway, since that information is your baby, let me know what you think. I'm perfectly okay with entering it, although I'm sure you'll wanna keep an eye on it and correct my lousy Russian "spelling".  ;) JFMorse 06:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, JF! Of course, I'd support this any day. It has been my intention to bring the articles on Russian administrative divisions and settlements to the U.S. level of detail all along, but I thought I'd put the "infrastructure" up first (in hopes to lure others interested in the subject, so they have something to start with), and then worry about the finer details later. It's incredible how slow things are moving when one is the only person to work on a subject area. Surely, I could use any help I'm offered :)

I am also curious as to what sources you are going to use. Hopefully it's not the official websites; you've seen how careless and outdated they can be. If you need something more reliable to work with, let me know, I'll gladly send the documentation I have. It will, of course, be in Russian, but since it's in a list format with very little narrative, you should feel comfortable with it in a few days (a little longer if you have to learn how to read Cyrillics first). Please email me through wikimail if you are interested.

One more time, thank you for your interest and willingness to help—I sure much appreciate it!—Ëzhiki (Igel Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Kursk Oblast

Hello, Ezhiki. I’d like to thank you for your time which you spent for reading and correcting my article. I very appreciate that you valued my work so much:)Lidiab 05:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)lidiab

Star City, Moscow

I noticed you removed the Category:Cities and towns in Russia. Fine by me, you'll probably know best. Problem is however, that the only category remaining is Category:Human spaceflight, and consequently, no geographical one. Isn't there some workaround, e.g. a Category:Restricted areas in Russia, which could then be put in the geography tree? Errabee 17:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. We have Category:Closed cities, but it would not apply for the same reason—Star City is not a city; it's a facility. Placing this article directly to Category:Moscow Oblast, however, should solve the problem. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the help! Errabee 20:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I also moved the article to Star City, Russia, because the facility is located outside of Moscow.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that's a better name. I've also taken the liberty to move the larger part of the text to Yuri Gagarin Cosmonauts Training Center, where it belongs imo. Errabee 20:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That was long overdue. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Tobias

Thanks for your concern. Tobias was actually blocked for disruption (he moved a town page to "Bad (town)"), and for placing "this user is a deletionist" on other people's userpages. Additionally, he began a systematic campaign of disruption by way of open IPs as soon as he was blocked. So unfortunatly, there's a lot more going on than than just his interaction with you (which honestly, I hadn't noticed). --InShaneee 20:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)