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Revision as of 16:04, 28 June 2014 editRolandR (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers32,326 edits /* Statement by RolandR/← Previous edit Revision as of 16:37, 28 June 2014 edit undoNishidani (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users99,504 edits Sepsis II: commentNext edit →
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:::Sean.hoyland: Funny that you mention that I broke 1RR in ], because so far I haven't reverted any edit there. Can you show me a link to prove me wrong? Of course you can't! I'm getting tired of your false accusations and lies. If you knew the difference between right and wrong, you should have reported users like Sepsis II long time ago instead of trying to censor me for causeless ideological reasons.--] (]) 10:16, 28 June 2014 (UTC) :::Sean.hoyland: Funny that you mention that I broke 1RR in ], because so far I haven't reverted any edit there. Can you show me a link to prove me wrong? Of course you can't! I'm getting tired of your false accusations and lies. If you knew the difference between right and wrong, you should have reported users like Sepsis II long time ago instead of trying to censor me for causeless ideological reasons.--] (]) 10:16, 28 June 2014 (UTC)



; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
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], if you have blocked Sean for his comments above suggesting sockpuppetry, you really should block checkuser ] for his comments ]. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 16:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC) ], if you have blocked Sean for his comments above suggesting sockpuppetry, you really should block checkuser ] for his comments ]. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 16:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


====Statement by Nishidani====
SH's comments about ASL's (putative) sockpuppetry ('The use of multiple Misplaced Pages user accounts for an improper purpose') appear to draw on ] checkuser judgement that , which AmirSurfLera . '''If''' that is an inference, unproven and therefore unwarranted, then there might be a case for SH's short suspension for disruptiveness. If it is not personal guesswork, but rather, as would appear to be the case, taking an experienced admin's judgement as objective, then it is hard to understand the severity. (Well, it is not that severe, except contextually. I haven't checked the log, but SH is notorious for not allowing his judgement to succumb to group pressures or POVs from either '''side'''. He keeps both honest by his independence.) I dislike expressing opinions here, and do so only because of the senile frailty which tempted me to make a semantic joke, for which I apologize.] (]) 16:37, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
===Result concerning Sepsis II=== ===Result concerning Sepsis II===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> <!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->

Revision as of 16:37, 28 June 2014

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    Plot Spoiler

    Complaint suspended until User:Plot Spoiler returns on July 1. If anyone has something to add, feel free to unhat this report. EdJohnston (talk) 17:53, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Plot Spoiler

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Oncenawhile (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Plot Spoiler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA : Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Standard_discretionary_sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Revert on 25 June after my directly related talk proposal on 22 June went unanswered for three days
    2. Revert on 7 June after my directly related talk proposal on 30 May went unanswered for a week
    3. Revert on 22 May

    In return for talk page discussion, detailed sourcing and verification, and lots of patience, Plot Spoiler responds with reverts, silence, reverts, and occasional personal attacks on talk. For the avoidance of doubt I asked Georgewilliamherbert for advice in February re dealing with such behaviour from Plot Spoiler, and have been following his advice to ensure I have crystal clean hands.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. WP:AE/Archive139#Plot_Spoiler Sep 2013 ARBPIA enforcement
    2. WP:3RR/User:Greyshark09_and_User:Plot_Spoiler Jan 2014 warning re slow burn edit war
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    In response to User:Sandstein below, this is a clear case of slow burn edit warring from an editor who should know better. Whilst the slow burn nature means it didn't trip the 1RR 24 hour bright line, it has had the same effect via three reverts, and should be considered as such. Oncenawhile (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

    Hi User:Sandstein, sorry i'm being slow. I have now linked to the specific remedy above. Plot Spoiler was blocked under ARBPIA about 9 months ago, so is well aware of the sanctions. I also reminded him about them on talk between the second and third revert above . Oncenawhile (talk) 20:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
    And he was notified directly re the risk of sanctions from slow burn edit warring at User_talk:Plot_Spoiler/Archive_3#Discretionary_sanctions_notification. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:54, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Plot Spoiler

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Plot Spoiler

    Apologies, I'm unable to provide a thoughtful and detailed response until at least Tuesday, July 1. I will not be editing in the interim. Your patience is appreciated. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Plot Spoiler

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The complaint does not make clear which if any specific remedy should be enforced and/or which if any conduct rule these reverts are deemed to violate. It is not actionable as submitted.  Sandstein  18:28, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

    Even as amended, the complaint does not specify the remedy to be enforced and, if this is to be a discretionary sanctions request, does not indicate how Plot Spoiler was aware (as required) of these sanctions. Still not actionable.  Sandstein  20:16, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

    Sandstein, you issued 3-month ARBPIA ban to Plot Spoiler in September 2013. This should make them sufficiently aware. Though I haven't decided who is behaving the worst at 1950–51 Baghdad bombings we should think about some admin action which is sufficient to be sure that the conduct of all parties reaches the expected quality level for ARBPIA articles. It is tempting to think that a sanction to Plot Spoiler might be what is needed. In the September 2013 case, it was found that Plot Spoiler was applying different standards to the quality of the sources on the two sides of the dispute. EdJohnston (talk) 17:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

    Hm, I'm waiting for a statement by Plot Spoiler.  Sandstein  18:30, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
    Plot Spoiler now says he will be away until Tuesday July 1. How about we suspend this with no action, provided he does not edit Misplaced Pages in the mean time? EdJohnston (talk) 04:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
    OK.  Sandstein  05:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

    Sepsis II

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Sepsis II

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    AmirSurfLera (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:51, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Sepsis II (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 21:47 Revert 1
    2. 22:04 Revert 2
    3. 22:33 Revert 3
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Hypocrisy? User clearly broke 1RR in an Arab-Israeli conflict article and he knows very well what is this because he reported me several times for much less.

    Sean.hoyland: First of all, sockpuppetry is a serious accusation and if you don't have proofs to make this claim against me, I suggest you to retract yourself. Second, for much less than this I was blocked (I was "reverting" an edit from three months ago and I even reverted myself almost immediately). I already paid my punishment for violating 1RR. Now it's time for Sepsis II to pay the price for violating Misplaced Pages's policy over and over again with complete impunity. Third, you should stop defending a clear POV user who constantly deletes sourced information who doesn't like, replacing it with POV content supported by sources failing WP:RS, and always responds with personal attacks against other editors on edit summaries and talk pages. Do you need examples? I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. Unfortunately your statement only shows your blatant bias. Good day.--AmirSurfLera (talk) 09:21, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
    Sean.hoyland: Funny that you mention that I broke 1RR in 2014 kidnapping of Israeli teens, because so far I haven't reverted any edit there. Can you show me a link to prove me wrong? Of course you can't! I'm getting tired of your false accusations and lies. If you knew the difference between right and wrong, you should have reported users like Sepsis II long time ago instead of trying to censor me for causeless ideological reasons.--AmirSurfLera (talk) 10:16, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Sepsis II

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Sepsis II

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    The first 2 diffs are reverts of IPs, "Reverts of edits made by anonymous IP editors that are not vandalism are exempt from 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring." Actually Brewcrewer should probably be blocked for that terrible edit, one of the worst I've seen for a while I have to say. AmirSurfLera, as a sockpuppet, you are violating the rules to be here are you not and yet you expect others to follow the rules. How can that kind of behavior possibly be justified ? How can ARBPIA function when there are 2 classes of editors, those who have to follow the rules and those who don't ? Sean.hoyland - talk 09:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

    But it should be you who reports yourself. That is what you should do. It should be you who does the right thing. It should be you who explores ways to legitimately return as an editor. It should not be me and others wasting our time trying to stop you. You should be trying to stop you. My statement shows that, like most editors, I know the difference between right and wrong and that I tell the truth. Every editor in ARBPIA looks like a POV editor to me. I'm defending common decency not Sepsis. Why ? Not out of some sense of moral outrage or part of some pointless battle over microgeography, but because ARBPIA simply can't function when there are 2 classes of editors, one that has to follow the rules and the other that doesn't. It just doesn't work. Sepsis hasn't violated 1RR in the example you provide. On the other hand, you probably violated 1RR at the same article, 2014 kidnapping of Israeli teens, in your 6 edits between 2014-06-20T02:10:03‎ and 2014-06-20T19:00:00. ‎Many people have been violating 1RR, strictly speaking, at that article as it's developed but it seems you are motivated by revenge and so have filed this case. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
    I didn't. I said probably because it's hard not to violate 1RR when an article is being developed. I haven't looked at your edits. I am not going to do it here because I am not going to trying to get you blocked for a 1RR violation if there is one. You were not edit warring or editing in a different way than other editors at that article at that time. I raised it as a potential issue because I see double standards in your behavior and attitude. I would like you blocked for sockpuppetry but without a clear set of requirements that you need to meet in order to return as a legitimate editor and without an agreement from you that you will abide by it there is little point. What you need to do to see whether you violated 1RR at that article or anywhere is read a recent case at ANI that clarified what a revert is and examine your edits in light of that (see here). A revert probably isn't what you think it is. It wasn't what I thought it was. That discussion has implications for everyone in ARBPIA so I also posted it at WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration here. And you should trust me. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by RolandR

    Sandstein, if you have blocked Sean for his comments above suggesting sockpuppetry, you really should block checkuser Elockid for his comments here. RolandR (talk) 16:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Nishidani

    SH's comments about ASL's (putative) sockpuppetry ('The use of multiple Misplaced Pages user accounts for an improper purpose') appear to draw on Elockid's checkuser judgement that 'it is a user who has edited before', which AmirSurfLera is on record as denying. If that is an inference, unproven and therefore unwarranted, then there might be a case for SH's short suspension for disruptiveness. If it is not personal guesswork, but rather, as would appear to be the case, taking an experienced admin's judgement as objective, then it is hard to understand the severity. (Well, it is not that severe, except contextually. I haven't checked the log, but SH is notorious for not allowing his judgement to succumb to group pressures or POVs from either side. He keeps both honest by his independence.) I dislike expressing opinions here, and do so only because of the senile frailty which tempted me to make a semantic joke, for which I apologize.Nishidani (talk) 16:37, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

    Result concerning Sepsis II

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I have removed an extraneous comment that had nothing to do with the matter at hand. Editors who have nothing useful to say about the specific complaint being made here should not comment. All participants are reminded of WP:AC/DS#Decorum.

    Concerning Sepsis II: The complaint is not actionable as submitted because it does not cite a specific remedy that is to be enforced. I am waiting for it to be amended and, if it is, for a statement by Sepsis II.

    Concerning AmirSurfLera: The allegations by Sean.hoyland of sockpuppetry and violating revert restrictions are not actionable for, among other reasons, lack of submitted evidence in the form of diffs.

    Concerning Sean.hoyland: The conduct by Sean.hoyland, above, is disruptive in that they repeatedly allege that AmirSurfLera is a sockpuppet without providing appropriate or indeed any evidence, even after being asked to (see WP:ASPERSIONS). Because this complaint concerns the Arab-Israeli conflict, this thread is subject to WP:ARBPIA#Standard discretionary sanctions, about which Sean.hoyland has been previously notified. As a discretionary sanction, and also as authorized by WP:AC/DS#Decorum, Sean.hoyland is blocked for 48 hours for their conduct on this page, and is also banned from commenting on arbitration enforcement requests by others relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area, except where Sean.hoyland's own conduct is the subject of the request.  Sandstein  11:05, 28 June 2014 (UTC)