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Plot Spoiler

Sean.hoyland

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Sean.hoyland

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Kipa Aduma, Esq. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Sean.hoyland (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA : Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 06:22, 1 July 2014 First edit after coming off a block for calling me a sock without evidence, repeats the behavior, and says "just to make it crystal clear, I have just done exactly the same thing there that recently resulted in my being blocked for 48 hours by Sandstein for describing a sockpuppet as a sockpuppet. I made it as my very first post-block edit. You are welcome to apply another block. I don't mind"

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 11:12, 28 June 2014 Block for the same behavior - calling people socks without evidence
2. 08:45, 1 July 2014 Clarification by blocking admin that such behavior constitutes personal attacks, and will be dealt with accordingly

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 28 June 2014 by Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@Black Kite - WP:NOTHERE, as I am sure you know, is not a Misplaced Pages policy or guideline. My real life work burden prevents me from editing regularly, but I edit when I can. The I-P topic is one my main interests, and when I edit there, I do so without breaking any policies or guidelines, which is more than I can say for the predictable pile-ons by some of the commenters here, or by Sean.hoyland. What policy exactly are you basing your suggestion to topic ban me on?

And to all the editors who are now claiming Sean is merely "frustrated", or "blew his cool", I refer you to his most recent edit: "Editors can do and say anything and take the consequences. I know you probably won't be able to understand this but I haven't made any mistakes. Everything I've done is considered and deliberate". Administrators on this board have, as far as I can tell, two options: They can ivent an excuse to block be , not based on Misplaced Pages policy, while letting an editor brazenly thumb their nose at this site's policies regarding personal attacks, and allow them to continue, in a calculated and deliberate way to drive contributors like me, whose opinions they don't like off the project. In the process, they will of course make a mockery of Sandstein's original block for this kind of behavior and their subsequent declaration that the rules are clear and that such personal attacks will be "dealt with accordingly" ; or they can start enforcing the rules without making excuses on behalf of supposedly useful contributors.

@Black Kite & Sandstein: If one-sided editing is grounds for a topic ban, then as Shrike notes below, every single one of the commenters on this case needs to be topic banned. Shall I provide you with the evidence?

@Sandstein: re: editors who "have clear sympathies for one side, but are not only dedicated to making edits that favor that side. " - if you are referring to their edits within the I-P topic area, that is incorrect. Those edits are uniformly one-sided. If you are referring to the fact that (some) of them may also contribute to other part of the encyclopedia- would it matter if I undertook to significantly increase my edits outside the I-P area, to the level of say, RolandR?

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Sean.hoyland

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Sean.hoyland

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

Four days after this editor's "debut", Ohiostandard (talk · contribs) left a message noting the suspicion of socking. Just sayin'. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:23, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

So do y'all think that the editor is not a sock?? That would be a tad ridiculous, no? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Nishidani

Okay. The most astute, informed and relatively untarnished SPI/IP/ abuse account expert in the I(P area has blown his cool. His edit summary is, self-evidently, a request for a perma-ban because of his outrage (shared, I would add) at the extraordinary sanction applied to him for what was deemed a WP:AGF infraction, in an area where I don't even note any more the insults that fly my way, or make formal protests here or at AN/1. He feels, one gathers, that his record was blemished by an intense focus on a technical piece of the minutiae of good faith protocols, to the exclusion of what everyone knows. There is something extremely odd about the Kipa Aduma account, as there is about AmirSurfLera's and his edits are a disaster. The point that tipped his detachment lies here. He thought in the Sepsis case that he was in his rights to call an editor a sock (multiple account user) on the basis of an assurance given to him by an experienced checkuser that AmirSurfLera, despite his denials, had worked on wikipedia under another account. Several people thought that SH's inference was absolutely rational. Sandstein did not. I laid out the point here in the the Sepsis case just prior to the Kipa Aduma case:

SH's comments about ASL's (putative) sockpuppetry ('The use of multiple Misplaced Pages user accounts for an improper purpose') appear to draw on Elockid's checkuser judgement that 'it is a user who has edited before', which AmirSurfLera is on record as denying. If those comments consist of an inference, unproven and therefore unwarranted, then there might be a case for SH's short suspension for disruptiveness. If they stem not from personal guesswork, but rather, as would appear to be the case, from taking an experienced admin's judgement as objective, then it is hard to understand the severity.

Two other expressly noted the formal problem as I noted here.

Three editors now Roland R, myself and Dlv999 have asked for clarification of why SH's use of Elockid's statement to assert something quite specific, that ASL has edited wiki before adopting a new handle, is sanctionable. This is important since SH is virtually the only experienced editor in this troubled area who tracks the extremely problematical and intricate patterns of socking there. A ban that is not tightly argued and reasonable beyond dispute risks effectively maiming our ability to defend wikipedia from the large number of socks, meatpuppets and pseudo-newbies who barge in almost daily. This is not special pleading for SH, nor is it partisan. It is special pleading to not make the work of editors in this area even more sisyphean than it already it.

The case was closed without any consideration given to a point independently raised by myself,RolandR, and Dlv999. The refusal to answer the point may be al legitimate exercise in discretional insouciance to what is deemed a technical irrerlevance. But we peons would reply that Sandstein's reading, and tacit dismissal, has left (a) editors not knowing any longer whether they can trust checkuser assurances and (b) SH (I don't know who he is and we have never corresponded, for the record) so pissed off he is apparently willing to challenge the arbitrator, by a formally suicidal edit summary. So, while technical a severe sanction is a quick mechanical consequence, a refusal to address several complaints about what long-term editors think is a vizio di forma or legal flaw at the basis of SH's ban is, inevitably, going to deprive the area of its most experienced technician for detecting the viral plague that makes work in this, excuse me, cesspit of corrupt editing, almost intolerable. A case of overattention to one detail, itself disputed, Sandstein, which now looks like having a drastically negative impact on the I/P area's functionality. Nishidani (talk) 10:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

BK. Quite correct that 'Whether Kipa Aduma, Esq is a sock of another user or not actually isn't the point here'. But since, he is one of two editors whom almost all in the area from detailed experience consider uncannily like a duck, and, having escaped challenge, now is setting his sights on outing an editor with an outstanding record for contributing to the sanity of this place, the complaint he lays certainly demands that we look at why SeanH's remark arose: the point then is also: was SH's inference, which led to the sanction in the first place, proper or not. No answer has been given, and a large number of editors are puzzled. I have great respect for Sandstein's almost Olympian judgement, the ability to cut to the chase, as repeated over the years. Here, I must admit, I think that meticulousness saw one (small) problem, and ignored what many thought an obvious issue as though it were impertinent in both senses- namely, the statement by Elockid which most of us read as validating the idea that ASL had, contrary to his protestations, edited under another name, and therefore was a sock. Surely that statement by Elockid and SH's logical assumption that it constituted a clear-cut basis for his own remark, requires reanalysis. There's nothing personal in this, or partisan. One's sense of how to read things is destablized if this remains obscure. Nishidani (talk) 11:43, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

A doctor in my country recently had to stand trial for drunk-driving. He was the only doctor on an isolated island. One late Saturday night, he got a phone-call about an emergency. Even though he had taken two glasses of wine, (thereby clearly breaking our very strict drunk-driving laws) he sat himself in the car (there was nobody else there to drive him) and got to the patient.

He was freed at the trial, as the Judge noted that that nobody was hurt by his driving, and that the patient would surely have died if he had not got there. Nobody criticised the judge, but the patient had really, really been lucky.

Undoubtedly, many doctors would have said "rules are rules!" -and refused to drive.

CU Elockid said this about AmirSurfLera here. To Sandstein: Is it a blocable offence to repeat that? Is it an offence to link to it? Sickly patients wants to know. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 11:22, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Everyone, (including me), seems to mix up Kipa Aduma, Esq. and AmirSurfLera. No wonder. Lets sum it up:

• Kipa Aduma, Esq. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  • Started editing 10 June 2012, but has only 163 edits: long dormant period. 1st edit a revert.
  • On the 11 June 2012, Kipa Aduma, Esq. was named as a possible sock of AnkhMorpork, by Oncenawhile, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/AnkhMorpork/Archive
  • On the 13th June 2012 Kipa Aduma, Esq. was referred to as an "obvious socks" on WP:AN/I by OhioStandard (link). OhioStandard was not blocked for this. And Kipa Aduma, Esq. somehow follows/is informed about what goes on WP:AN/I after three days on wikipedia, as they referred to it on their talk-page.
  • Wikichecker chart:
  • AmirSurfLera and Kipa Aduma, Esq. typically reverts with the same POV, on the same pages:
  • 05:25, 29 June 2014 revert on Ariel University
  • 06:18, 1 July 2014 revert on Ariel University
  • 04:28, 30 June 2014 revert on Basic Laws of Israel
  • 08:57, 1 July 2014 revert on Basic Laws of Israel
  • However, Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Kipa_Aduma,_Esq. was closed without action by Bbb23

Note: this is *very* interesting, User Tiptoety just deleted Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/AnkhMorpork/Archive "pr Misplaced Pages:Courtesy vanishing". What a coincidence..... Huldra (talk) 23:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

• AmirSurfLera (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  • Started 21 March 2014, but have only 404 edits. Did not really get active until a month ago,
  • Wikichecker chart:
  • CU Elockid said on 8th of April 2014 this about AmirSurfLera "it is a user who has edited before. I'm not sure if they were blocked for sockpuppetry or indeffed blocked but if memory serves me, I believe this user has been blocked before. I just can't quite point my finger who this is, but they are definitely not new." Elockid has not been blocked for this remark.
  • AmirSurfLera denies having previously edited Misplaced Pages
  • AmirSurfLera is an absolute expert WP:1RR-gamer, just look at these last days:
  • 03:43, 30 June 2014 1st revert on Basic Laws of Israel
  • 03:43, 1 July 2014 2nd revert on Basic Laws of Israel
  • 02:01, 30 June 2014 1st revert on Ariel University
  • 02:04, 1 July 2014 2nd revert on Ariel University
  • Sean.hoyland thinks that Precision123 (see ) = Shamir1 was an AmirSurfLera sock. Shamir1 was an extremely experienced (8K+) wikiaddict (since 2005) who is indeffed. However, Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/AmirSurfLera was closed without action by Bbb23.

To Sandstein: I took the liberty of notifying AmirSurfLera here. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:33, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Btw, I have spent several hours finding these links, (instead of doing what I love: finding sources for, & writing articles). You so easily say we should "work through the rules". But the I/P area is getting a tsunami of socks, it is impossible to act on them all. We *need* new rules. And we need those few editors who can actually identify those abusive socks. Like Sean.hoyland can.

We do *not* need admins who only spend a *very* limited time, looking for some narrow "rule" which is "actionable". These ducks knows every rule to the core. Look at the above expert 1RR-gaming! I´m seriously impressed! In many cases these ducks have been on Misplaced Pages much longer that the admins they are tricking.

Please at least comment here: Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests#IP_area_still_being_swamped_by_socks Cheers, Huldra (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Sean.hoyland is one of the most balanced and valuable editors in the mideast area of Misplaced Pages. Losing him would be a disaster. The pov-pushers would just throw a party and choose their next victim. I urge administrators to take a wider view and act in the interest of the project. Zero 13:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by RolandR

Like many other editors involved in Middle East articles, I am becoming increasingly frustrated by the proliferation of tendentious, throwaway single-purpose accounts. It seems obvious that many of these accounts are socks, very possibly of banned editors, but it is not always possible to reliably identify the puppeteer. This handicaps our ability to take action to deal with the socks, since Misplaced Pages rules require a complaint to name a puppeteer. In the case of AmirSurfLera, Elockid wrote that this is "a user who has edited before. I'm not sure if they were blocked for sockpuppetry or indeffed blocked but if memory serves me, I believe this user has been blocked before. I just can't quite point my finger who this is, but they are definitely not new", so Sean's comment was neither unfounded nor outrageous. I would suggest that a new procedure is needed for reporting and investigating accounts which are clearly socks, even if the editor submitting the report cannot specify who the puppeteer is.

As others have pointed out, this behaviour, which seems to be increasing, taken alongside an apparent tightening of what is considered a revert, is preventing normal constructive editing. If experienced, good-faith editors have to revert non-stop unconstructive edits from these throwaway POV socks, it removes our right to make most other edits to articles. If this continues, all of the decent editors will be driven away, blocked or topic-banned, leaving the field free for trolls, propagandists and other vandals to wreak havoc. RolandR (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Shrike

If admins think that users should be banned for being a SPA then most of those who operate now in I/P area should be banned including those who posted comments in this thread.I don't care either way but please let be consistent--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 20:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Carolmooredc

I gave up editing in the area in part because WP:SPI ignored clear evidence of one or more SPA's who probably were socks. It can get frustrating when that happens and is a disincentive to collecting proper evidence. While everything is a judgement call, obviously those who only appear (and reappear under different names) to edit with one view, on one or two related articles, have to be dealt with. If SPA rather than SPI is the best way, please enforce it. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 20:23, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Serialjoepsycho

I have to question what this would accomplish. One thing of note that it would do is prevent Sean.hoyland from reverting Kipa Aduma, Esq. I have to say that I agree with the revert in question and it was done by more than editor. I think it might be necessary to ask you admins to review these comments as they were the comments that Sean responded to. While they weren't directed at Sean directly they do seem inciting. I also question if those comments are casting aspersions against Zero. It seems to me to be an Implication of Bad faith editing. I question the emphasis on original research and I'm wondering if his mention of adminship suggests conduct unbecoming of a mod.

As for Sean, You have already banned him and it did not work. It is my understanding that discretionary sanctions are not meant to be punishment. They like other sanctions on wikipedia are meant to end disruption. As to my understanding Standard discretionary sanctions apply, I would like to direct you to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Placing_sanctions_and_page_restrictions. I'd like to note that Sean's disruption has linked directly to his interaction with Kipa. In the linked policy it does mention interaction bans. My assumption what an interaction ban is a ban on an editor from interacting with another editor. Such a ban could effectively end disruption. Ban both Kipa from and Sean from communicating unless absolutely necessary. Limited exclusively to content and only as necessary.

I do not think that Discretionary Sanctions were meant to be used as a blunted object to silence other editors. It seems to me that is exactly what Kipa is doing here.I'd also point to his action here.In this complaint his issue was that Sepsis II committed a 1RR violation. Not that there was an edit war. Not that he even had an issue with the content change. I would also like to point to This where he contacts the mod who banned Sepsis II in that case. I have to point to this as well. Let me be clear however before continuing, I'm not accusing either mod of any improper action. I do question if this amounts to Kipa Misplaced Pages:Gaming_the_system#Gaming_sanctions_for_disruptive_behavior Gaming the system. Note that I personally see Kipa's response to Zero in a similar light to the comments Sean responded with. While contacting these admins may not be wp:canvassing to the letter I wonder if it is in principle. Specifically contacting a admin insure a predetermined outcome. I do find this suspect. It brings into question the overall fairness of the process if you can just walk in and pick your admins to judge the case. Does Kipa have Unclean hands and is this Vexatious?

Finally my interpretation of the talk page where this happened is that Ariel university is not in Israel but the land we attribute the name Palestine and in some cases the "State of Palestine". Multiple editors reverted this change multiple times to conform to that consensus. WP:TAGTEAM is an essay that defines a specific form of Meat puppetry. I question if The edits by Kipa Aduma, Esq, AmirSurfLera, and a number of IP's would constitute Meatpuppetry and are in violation of WP:sock. These edits dating back to 04:53, June 16, 2014, and continuing at least until 01:04, July 2, 2014.

I apologise for exceeding 500 words. I ask that you review my comments and consider leaving them intact.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 20:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Result concerning Sean.hoyland

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I previously sanctioned Sean.hoyland with a brief block and a commenting restriction because, in an earlier AE thread, they repeatedly alleged that Kipa Aduma, Esq., is a sockpuppet, but did not provide evidence in support of that allegation when asked to. Sean.hoyland now continues to repeat that allegation, including on a noticeboard. However, an investigation at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Kipa Aduma, Esq. has since been closed without action. The continued allegations by Sean.hoyland are therefore personal attacks that impede cooperation in the Israel-Palestine conflict topic area, in which both editors are active. They are not acceptable conduct (see, in particular, WP:ASPERSIONS). In an pseudonymous editing environment, editors are required to assume good faith of one another unless they have actionable evidence to the contrary. I am of the view that a week-long block of Sean.hoyland and a ban from the topic of sockpuppetry in the Arab-Israeli conflict area are indicated. But I'd like to hear the opinion of other admins.  Sandstein  09:55, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• Whether Kipa Aduma, Esq is a sock of another user or not actually isn't the point here, especially since if they are, they're clever enough to circumvent Checkuser. What can be proved is that they are an account that doesn't edit for long periods of times, and then activates to edit-war and/or insert themselves into contentious issues with a clear POV, almost exclusively on IP subjects. This is pretty much a textbook definition of WP:NOTHERE and that alone, I would say, suggests that an IP topic ban would be a suitable method of preventing future issues with this account. Black Kite kite (talk) 11:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• If this description of Kipa Aduma, Esq. is correct, then I agree that a topic ban would be suitable. However, nobody has so far made an AE request or submitted evidence to this effect. If such evidence can be supplied here, I'd agree to act on it. Black Kite, I am also interested in your opinion concerning the conduct of Sean.hoyland.  Sandstein  11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• I think Sean.hoyland has become as frustrated as many others who have posted above by the continual issues in this topic area created by suspicious single-purpose accounts, many of whom - even if they can't be proved to be sockpuppets of other users - are clearly not new users, as Elockid pointed out. As Nishidani says, Elockid's comment may have been taken by SH and others to mean that particular editor was a proven sock (I realize that he didn't quite say that, but the difference was effectively negligible). Effectively, SH went about things the wrong way when dealing with accounts that frankly really do fail the duck test in many ways and whilst he has clearly breached WP:POINT with his second comment, I am not convinced that another sanction is worthwhile, especially given a comment by a Checkuser that suggests exactly what SH is being sanctioned for. Do we really want to reward these SPA accounts for their incitement of good-faith editors? I don't believe so. As for evidence of Kipa Aduma's modus operandi, a simple perusal of their contributions history should be enough. Black Kite kite (talk) 12:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• Kipa Aduma, Esq.: whilst WP:NOTHERE is a guideline, it links to policies, and the decision that administrators need to make is whether an account is a net positive to Misplaced Pages. Your account, with its persistent POV editing, edit-warring, and running off to this page to attempt to get good-faith editors blocked for opposing you, clearly is not. Having looked at this in detail now, I would recommend a block and/or a topic ban (effectively the same thing) for both this account and AmirSurfLera. Black Kite kite (talk) 19:31, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• I don't have a particular objection to these proposed sanctions, if only because I am of the view that one-sided single-purpose editing is in and of itself a violation of the conduct aspect of WP:NPOV, and as such sanctionable misconduct. The 1RR gaming evidence by Huldra is also indicative that these accounts may mostly be here to play games. However, the socking evidence is still non-existent, really, there's just a lot of allegations and suppositions. At any rate, having alternate accounts is not in and of itself sanctionable - only abusing them, such as to avoid scrutiny or sanctions, is. And we'd need evidence for that. Also, if AmirSurfLera is to be sanctioned here, they would need to be notified and allowed to make a statement. At any rate, nothing about this changes my appreciation of the conduct of Sean.hoyland, who I note has said on their talk page that they won't comment here. No matter what others, including checkusers, may have suggested, confrontatively accusing others of misconduct without actionable evidence is not permitted.  Sandstein  20:25, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• I agree with the first part, but feel that I need to point out that the socking (or not) is irrelevant - it's the disruptive editing that should be taken into account. Whether or not a single-purpose POV edit-warring account is a sock doesn't matter. As regards Sean.hoyland, if a checkuser has (effectively) suggested that an editor is a sock, I don't see how one can sanction anyone else for repeating that claim. Otherwise one would also have to sanction the checkuser. I didn't realise AmirSurfLera had not yet been notified, so that would of course have to be done. Black Kite kite (talk) 20:33, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• The checkuser's comment (which may not even be based on checkuser information) does not help Sean.hoyland here. Their disruption, as I see it, lies in repeatedly and in several fora accusing another editor of being a sockpuppet, without providing evidence after being asked to, that is, without even citing the checkuser's comment. Such conduct violates the principle described in WP:ASPERSIONS.  Sandstein  22:02, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• If an account edits in the manner of a sockpuppet or illegitimate alternative account then they can hardly be offended when they are called out on it. The two accounts being discussed here may belong to good-faith editors who just happen to only visit Misplaced Pages when there is a dispute or edit-warring from a certain POV in the IP area to be done, but to say the least it would not be my first guess. As I say, given the situation my inclination would be to warn SH only. Black Kite kite (talk) 06:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

• In response to Shrike, if there is evidence that any participant to this request is a single-purpose account dedicated only (or almost only) to advancing one side's position of the Arab-Israeli conflict in Misplaced Pages, then you may make a (separate) AE request for sanctions against them. My impression, however, is that this description does not apply to (at least) many participants to this thread, who may have clear sympathies for one side, but are not only dedicated to making edits that favor that side.  Sandstein  05:58, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Scalhotrod

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Scalhotrod

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Lightbreather (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:46, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Scalhotrod (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Scalhotrod repeatedly deleting the same info, not discussing, using only WP:REVTALK:

1. 08:01, 6 June 2014 First delete of info.
2. 07:53, 7 June 2014 Scal deleting discussion I started on his talk page, without reply (except for snarky edit summary, "Cleanup.")
3. 17:51, 9 June 2014 2nd delete breaks WP:TALKDONTREVERT
4. 18:51, 9 June 2014 3rd delete - edit summary: "Clean up" - not how to summarize
5. 22:50, 9 June 2014 Scal deleting second discussion I started on his talk page, without reply, again (except for snarky "Cleanup" edit summary, again).
6. 08:29, 10 June 2014 4th delete again breaks TALKDONTREVERT (Consensus-building in talk pages)
7. 08:34, 10 June 2014 5th delete "
8. 11:59, 11 June 2014 6th delete "
9. 10:49, 12 June 2014 edit summary: "its only fuel for the fire..." Scal's WP:PERSONAL revtalk and reply to TransporterMan about me after he (TM) asked Scal to talk with me. (I thought Scal was done with this behavior.)
10. 12:42, 30 June 2014 7th delete again breaks TALKDONTREVERT
11. 08:05, 1 July 2014 8th delete - edit summary: "No consensus to keep."
12. 08:32, 1 July 2014 9th delete again breaks TALKDONTREVERT
13. 08:59, 1 July 2014 10th delete "
14. 10:00, 1 July 2014 11th delete - es: "No consensus means no consensus" inaccurate revtalk (after I restored material with es: "No consensus means keep, not delete.")

Most of the edit summaries I did not copy have to do with his opinion that OpenSecrets is not reliable. Please see below for diffs to my attempts to talk about dispute.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 6 May 2014 by Callanecc. resulting from this ANI--Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 03:08, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

11:30, 6 June 2014 - Me starting a DISCUSSION on Scal's talk page: . (I also added a suggestion to this discussion about use of the term "clean up," which he continues to ignore, as shown in his edit summaries above.)

19:09, 9 June 2014 - Me starting a second DISCUSSION on Scal's talk page:

09:12, 10 June 2014 - Me starting a DISCUSSION on the NRA talk page about the OpenSecrets material: . Scal did not reply.

09:27, 10 June 2014 - Me starting a DISCUSSION on the NRA talk page about the Senate confirmations material: . Scal did not reply.

11:45, 11 June 2014 - Me asking for a 3O re the OpenSecrets material:

14:40, 11 June 2014 - 3O editor TransporterMan asking Scal to talk with me:

By his actions it is clear that he is not editing "in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect." Also, that he is not allowing the addition of reliable, verifiable, NPOV, and due criticism to the NRA article against WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:DUE. He does not discuss, so no consensus can be reached, and he may be "Attempting to exhaust or drive off editors who disagree through hostile conduct, rather than through legitimate dispute-resolution methods...."

I have made numerous efforts to work with him, and I'm tired of wasting my time dealing with him. Please help.

• Not sure if I am supposed to reply to Scal's comments - which aren't about the items I listed above. If this is going to turn into a look at my behavior, am I allowed to defend myself here? (Would it not be better for Scal to start a separate request about me?) I'm fully prepared to defend my edits, but I want to be sure that the specific behaviors cited above are addressed, too, and this doesn't just get deflected into an examination of me.
• Also, was it OK for him to make this edit, which modified my section of this discussion/process?
• Oh, and forgive me, but since Scal found it necessary to drag witnesses into this, I'll ping a few, who can perhaps help to put things into persepective, if that becomes necessary: StarryGrandma, Thenub314, and AndyTheGrump.

• I am familiar with Thenub and Andy, but who is StarryGrandma?

• I'm not sure where Drmies picked up the "verbose" thing, but if that's what Scal is calling me, then it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Take for instance his reply below (04:07, 3 July 2014): almost 700 words, and not one addresses the diffs I gave above. His first two links are to me saying I see myself as an article steward, not an owner. The third link is to a nearly 8-month-old ANI that nearly boomeranged on the editor who brought it against me. (It is also another example of pro-gun editors - three of whom are now topic banned - talking about my behavior, without diffs.) The fourth is about what Scal calls my "stance." (Again, Scal is trying to paint me as an editor who has a POV - we all do, that is of no matter - and who can't edit for NPOV, which does matter and in my case is untrue.) Fifth, I don't think he should be dragging behaviors related to his renaming of the Assault weapons ban article (to Assault weapons legislation) unless he wants to put his behavior in that mess under the spotlight. And as for his being the first to extend an olive branch, that was after I took him to ANI for multiple personal attacks without evidence. And I went there as a last resort, after he kept speaking badly about me - as he's done below - at just about every opportunity he had, whether it was an appropriate forum or not. I kept talking to him about this and asking him to stop and he didn't, so I went to ANI. Finally, I do edit a lot of gun related pages, as do many other editors, but I do not edit only gun related article. He has enough WP experience to figure that out, so why does he write that he "can't find a single edit that isn't gun-related"? (Answer, as I have learned: He exaggerates.)
• Now, can we get back to the items I brought up first? If we're going to talk about me, I'd prefer a separate discussion. (I've made the same request before, but he hasn't respected it. And since he feels entitled to judge me I'll say this: He has edited many dozens of porn articles and, IMO, he doesn't have much respect for women.)
• Here is an example of the behavior I'm talking about: . If he or Mike has evidence for a complaint, bring it on and quit gossiping about me like children. Lightbreather (talk) 23:18, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

I notified Scalhotrod with this edit on his talk page:

Discussion concerning Scalhotrod

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Scalhotrod

Question for the Admins

• Every time that the accuser makes changes to the Sanction or remedy to be enforced, should I respond again?
• Is the accuser allowed to make personal attacks during this process like she did here where she states, "He has edited many dozens of porn articles and, IMO, he doesn't have much respect for women."?

Based on Sandstein's comment, I am not sure what to say or if any comment is necessary on my part. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 21:48, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

@EdJohnston, In the statement that you cite I was expressing my frustration with Lightbreather's methods and actions over the last several months and her POV that she has mentioned here and here where she states "my observation is that I am the only "pro-control" editor here". This is in addition to her various appearances at ANI starting here as far as I can tell with User Sue_Rangell and the WikiProject Firearms leader Mike_Searson. My apologies to them for dragging them into this, but I am not alone in my frustration with LB. There is further indication of her stance in a Dispute Resolution discussion (which I was unaware of until I began writing this text) here that was taking place during the recent Gun Control ARBCOM. One of the more telling IMO comments made in the discussion was by Ianmacm who states, "...why it is such a puzzle that Lightbreather seems obsessed with adding the much vaguer terms "assault weapon" and "high-capacity magazine" to articles. This appears to have become something of a personal crusade for Lightbreather, complete with an element of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT when it becomes clear that consensus is against him/her on this matter.". This was followed by Aoidh who stated, "...everyone who disagrees with Lightbreather is automatically "pro-gun", only those who agree with them should be listened to? That's absurd. I am not "pro-gun", I am however in favor of concise wording in an article, that is my issue with it and that is what I pointed out. Looking at Lightbreather's edit history, I can't find a single edit that isn't gun-related, so this WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality of "they have an opinion on guns so what they say shouldn't count" comes across as a little hypocritical."

Speaking of the Gun control article, LB recently made this edit a reversion of one of my contributions that was seemingly fine until her arrival and was under discussion. Her edit summary was a seemingly innocuous, but misdirecting with "removing some distracting, off-topic/related-topic (arms control) material; preserving on talk page". This was one of my earliest attempts at trying to narrow the topic focus enough so that it was not as contentious or inviting of tangential issues.

Since LB's arrival, I have been forced into more formal processes (ANI, Arbitration, etc.) in the last 6 months than my entire time on Misplaced Pages. Furthermore, I am thoroughly confused as to the use and proper purpose of these processes based on my forced experience. This is in addition to the onslaught of edits that LB makes to articles she is focused on that make use of those processes that much more difficult. While I applaud her sheer volume of edits, it comes across as domineering and worse yet she is defensive of her edits and additions and if anyone questions a series of edits on one or across several articles, then its immediately interpreted as a personal attack.

Admin Drmies has had first hand experience with how convoluted LB can make seemingly commonplace processes with regard to the Assault Weapons Legislation article move discussions here. In short LB started and RfC, but while it was open, then started a WP:Moverequest process and then changed tactics again with another discussion and went so far as to ask the MoveRequest closing Admin (Drmies) to reverse himself here

I pride myself on my ability to converse with all sides of an opinion in order to bring about not only consensus, but quality encyclopedic writing as I did on the Lead for the U.S. Second Amendment article starting here. It took well over a month, but we arrived at a Lead that was constructed through consensus as a true group effort and that has been stable ever since.

I have tried to communicate with LB and was the first one to extend an "olive branch" here. But LB's inflexibility has degraded every attempt at communication that does not result in content being exactly how she wants it worded or constructed and using her preference of sources. There have been some exceptions to this, but they are few and far between and rarely do not involve an Admin. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 04:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Drmies, on the road

I was asked by Scalhotrod to have a look at this, though I am not quite sure why. I don't have the time or the energy right now to look very deeply into the matter. What I see in this edit (picked at random) is what appears to be a possibly valid edit (and the SYNTH note may well be accurate). However, in this contentious subject matter this is something that should be discussed on the talk page, and I don't know if this is a repeated revert or not but if it is that's also not a good thing. What should have happened with this edit is a discussion on the talk page which could have led to an improvement (in terms of who said what) of the text: the sources appear to be legit (Washington Post and SF Chronical). Though I like Scalhotrod fine, I believe he has a certain amount of intransigence. Not wanting to discuss something with a (specific?) opponent cannot be a reason for lack of talk page discussion in articles under arbitration. Drmies (talk) 04:14, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

• Re: Scalhotrod's comments, I agree that Lightbreather has a tendency to be on the verbose side, sure. Drmies (talk) 04:20, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Scalhotrod

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

At first glance, the request is not actionable as submitted, because it does not make clear how these content removals of which diffs are provided violate any conduct rule (e.g., edit warring). The arbitration (enforcement) process cannot adjudicate whether these removals were justified as regards the encyclopedic merits of the removed content. If the complaint is mainly that Scalhotrod did not respond to requests for talk page discussion, then it is not clear from the request which policy or guideline would have required Scalhotrod to do so under the circumstances described.  Sandstein  22:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

In this edit Scalhotrod explained to TransporterMan why he doesn't like dealing with Lightbreather. Not everyone enjoys having to deal with their opponents, but here we have a case where one party (L.) is willing and the other party (S.) is refusing. This situation will probably have bad results if they intend to work on the same controversial articles. Is Scalhotrod willing to voluntarily abstain from gun control articles where Lightbreather has worked, or does he have any other suggestion? If my analysis is correct, we should be viewing this as a case of long-term edit warring without discussion. The edits by Scalhotrod supplied above by Lightbreather (numbered as 'first delete' through '11th delete') appear to be reverts of material that came from OpenSecrets.org. After making these deletions of OpenSecrets.org material from the National Rifle Association article I did not see Scalhotrod going to a place like RSN to get opinions on its usability. The status of OpenSecrets.org as a reliable source shouldn't depend solely on his personal opinion. I haven't checked who was on the other side of all these 11 reverts. If it was the same person in each case we might have to think about this further. There was a talk thread at Talk:National Rifle Association#Deletion 3X now of info from OpenSecrets via Sunlight Foundation and other sources where Lightbreather participated but Scalhotrod did not. It's hard to perceive that Scalhotrod is making an effort to discuss or that he has any concept at all of WP:Dispute resolution. EdJohnston (talk) 23:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)