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Revision as of 05:59, 20 July 2014 editGerda Arendt (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers380,355 edits →Statement by Gerda← Previous edit Revision as of 09:37, 20 July 2014 edit undoCallanecc (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators72,944 edits →Result concerning Pigsonthewing: comment, happy for this to be closedNext edit →
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*This looks like a <s>crystal clear</s> <u>(this was a bit too far, see further comments)</u> violation of the restriction for which I would suggest a one week block. Given the denial on their talk page I'd like to wait for a statement from Pigsonthewing. Based on ] comment on my talk page I'll clarify the reason I wanted a statement and more admin opinions. Pigsonthewing added an infobox to replace that summary which is where I see the breach of the restriction. Putting it another way if Andy had got into a discussion about this on the talk page (or the talk page of the user who added the summary) I would have considered that a violation so by extension and my reading of the restriction this is a violation. I am open be being more lenient with the one week block after a statement from Andy and from other admins. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 13:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC) *This looks like a <s>crystal clear</s> <u>(this was a bit too far, see further comments)</u> violation of the restriction for which I would suggest a one week block. Given the denial on their talk page I'd like to wait for a statement from Pigsonthewing. Based on ] comment on my talk page I'll clarify the reason I wanted a statement and more admin opinions. Pigsonthewing added an infobox to replace that summary which is where I see the breach of the restriction. Putting it another way if Andy had got into a discussion about this on the talk page (or the talk page of the user who added the summary) I would have considered that a violation so by extension and my reading of the restriction this is a violation. I am open be being more lenient with the one week block after a statement from Andy and from other admins. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 13:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
::Regarding whether this was fixing or adding, both ] ({{tq|"fixed-format table"}}) and ] ({{tq|"Infoboxes generally use the template software feature. (It is possible to hand-code an infobox using table markup...)"}}) seem to define an infobox as a fixed-format table which the original was not. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 13:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC) ::Regarding whether this was fixing or adding, both ] ({{tq|"fixed-format table"}}) and ] ({{tq|"Infoboxes generally use the template software feature. (It is possible to hand-code an infobox using table markup...)"}}) seem to define an infobox as a fixed-format table which the original was not. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 13:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
:::Given the clarifying comments and discussion I have no problem with this being closed with no sanction. Thank you to everyone who commented it definitely helped to define this sanction. As I've said before whilst I take a fairly hard line to what is and is not a violation (and no ill will intended Andy) I am very happy (and generally prefer) to be roved wrong in cases like this. Thank you all, <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 09:37, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

*The request has merit. In the edit at issue, Pigsonthewing added an {{tl|Infobox}} template to the article that was not there before. In addition, what it replaced was a thumbnail image with a caption, which is not an infobox, as Callanecc explains above. What Pigsonthewing did therefore wasn't merely fixing an existing infobox. Pigsonthewing is an experienced editor and should have known better than to try to game the limits of an Arbitration Committee restriction. They also should have immediately reverted themselves when asked to, instead of accusing the editor who reported them of stalking. In view of their uncooperative response to this request, I am of the view that a two-week block (considering the range of up to a month provided for by the enforcement remedy) is necessary to prevent Pigsonthewing from future noncompliance with the restriction. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 14:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC) *The request has merit. In the edit at issue, Pigsonthewing added an {{tl|Infobox}} template to the article that was not there before. In addition, what it replaced was a thumbnail image with a caption, which is not an infobox, as Callanecc explains above. What Pigsonthewing did therefore wasn't merely fixing an existing infobox. Pigsonthewing is an experienced editor and should have known better than to try to game the limits of an Arbitration Committee restriction. They also should have immediately reverted themselves when asked to, instead of accusing the editor who reported them of stalking. In view of their uncooperative response to this request, I am of the view that a two-week block (considering the range of up to a month provided for by the enforcement remedy) is necessary to prevent Pigsonthewing from future noncompliance with the restriction. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 14:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
*This administrative response strikes me as counter-productive. Why do we have to enter into a debate over whether or not what was there on the page before Pigsonthewings' edits "really was" an infobox, and whether he was just "fixing" one or "inserting" one? The simple fact is that it was obviously ''meant to be'' an infobox. The previous editor ''wanted'' there to be an infobox, and had tried to insert one; Potw helped him finish the job. The intention behind Potw's restriction is to stop him from alienating other editors by pushing for the insertion of boxes in articles where others have previously chosen not to have any. Penalizing this edit would be counter to the spirit of this sanction. <br/>I also do think it would be counter to the letter of the rule. ''Pace'' Callanecc, I do not consider the use of template code as a defining feature of what an infobox is. An infobox is defined by what it does for the reader, not by what wikicode it is produced by. If I add something to an article that looks like an infobox, quacks like an infobox and swims like an infobox, but I have done so not through a template but through static table code, then I have still added an infobox. An infobox is a box at the top of the article that contains certain pieces of basic information in tabulated form. In this sense, what was on the page clearly was one. <br/>Incidentally, I find it ironic that this is now (I think) the second time that I, a card-carrying infobox hater, have felt the need to defend Potw over these arb sanctions. ] ] 14:40, 19 July 2014 (UTC) *This administrative response strikes me as counter-productive. Why do we have to enter into a debate over whether or not what was there on the page before Pigsonthewings' edits "really was" an infobox, and whether he was just "fixing" one or "inserting" one? The simple fact is that it was obviously ''meant to be'' an infobox. The previous editor ''wanted'' there to be an infobox, and had tried to insert one; Potw helped him finish the job. The intention behind Potw's restriction is to stop him from alienating other editors by pushing for the insertion of boxes in articles where others have previously chosen not to have any. Penalizing this edit would be counter to the spirit of this sanction. <br/>I also do think it would be counter to the letter of the rule. ''Pace'' Callanecc, I do not consider the use of template code as a defining feature of what an infobox is. An infobox is defined by what it does for the reader, not by what wikicode it is produced by. If I add something to an article that looks like an infobox, quacks like an infobox and swims like an infobox, but I have done so not through a template but through static table code, then I have still added an infobox. An infobox is a box at the top of the article that contains certain pieces of basic information in tabulated form. In this sense, what was on the page clearly was one. <br/>Incidentally, I find it ironic that this is now (I think) the second time that I, a card-carrying infobox hater, have felt the need to defend Potw over these arb sanctions. ] ] 14:40, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

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    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Khabboos

    Appeal declined. NW (Talk) 11:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    Prohibited from appealing more than every six months. NW (Talk) 02:50, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Khabboos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Khabboos (talk) 15:02, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from the subject of religion or ethnic conflicts in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, imposed at ] and ]
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notified here

    Statement by Khabboos

    It has been three and a half months since I was topic banned (please see the link provided above). I am appealing that my TBan be lifted again now after a month based on the advice given to appeal again in a month when I appealed the last time here. If you admins see my contributions, you can observe that I have first discussed my edits on the Talk Page everytime, before editing the article. I therefore request you admins to lift my Topic Ban.

    TenOfAllTrades, a discussion on the Talk page of an unrelated topic shouldn't be brought up here (we're discussing my TBan with respect to religion and ethnic conflicts in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan)!—Khabboos (talk) 16:24, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    At WP:GAB, I read, "that (the blocked user must appeal that) the block is no longer necessary because you understand what you are blocked for, you will not do it again, and you will make productive contributions instead", so let me admit that I was blocked for citing a reference that did not say the same thing as the sentence I added to a wikipedia article, I promise not to repeat it again (I haven't ever repeated it after my TBan) and I will make productive contributions. If you admins see my contributions, you can observe that I have first discussed my edits on the Talk Page everytime, before editing the article. I therefore request you admins to lift my Topic Ban.—Khabboos (talk) 20:12, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
    Callanecc, I've replied at the SPI on Khabboos (re User:Saharadess); that isn't me!An SPI clerk has checked and found that it is not me and closed the case.—Khabboos (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Sandstein

    The last unsuccessful appeal was a month ago, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive151#Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Khabboos. Because this appeal does not address the reason for the ban, and does not explain in any detail what has changed since the last appeal, and also in view of the concerns voiced in the statement below, I am not confident that problems with original research, misuse of sources and non-neutral editing will not reoccur if the ban is lifted. I therefore recommend that the appeal is declined and that the frequency of future appeals is restricted.  Sandstein  18:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by TenOfAllTrades

    Not sure if I'm 'involved' in the weighty, Misplaced Pages-specific way or not, but I'll add my remarks in this section to avoid any distracting debate. I have had no interactions with Khabboos on articles related to India, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, and I can confidently say that I have no idea what his past disputes were about, or which 'side' he happened to be on. To my recollection I've never made any significant contributions in the area covered by his current topic ban.

    Where I have encountered Khabboos is in the area of homeopathy, chiropractic, and other fringe medical therapies. As near as I can tell, within a few days of being topic banned from one contentious area – India et al. – Khabboos jumped in with both feet to another. His very first substantive edits after the close of his last topic-ban discussion were to begin posting long lists of dozens of references onto Talk:Homeopathy: , , , (There are more consecutive diffs; I just got tired of copying at that point). It was obvious that he had not read the references he named, and that they were simply copy-pasted from other websites (which he did without attribution to the original sources). He proposed no specific edits, just made repeated, poorly-argued demands that negative, well-sourced descriptions of homeopathy be removed from the article.

    Efforts were made to return him to the straight and narrow, but the lists of unread, contextless references were back again a couple of weeks later: . The discussion at Talk:Homeopathy#WP:MEDRS (and elsewhere on that page) pretty clearly illustrates the issue. I officially notified Khabboos that discretionary sanctions applied to homeopathy and related articles on June 4 (), and he received a final warning on July 8: .

    He has noted that his primary purpose in editing these articles was to build up a track record to support this topic ban appeal: . If this is what he does when he's on his best behavior, I have grave doubts about what would happen if his editing restrictions were relaxed. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

    Actually, these edits, posted a few minutes ago while I was writing the above comment, capture an essential problem with Khabboos' attitude:

    "A discussion on a Talk Page doesn't break any rules, does it? I haven't even indulged in an edit war here!—Khabboos (talk) 15:19, 13 July 2014 (UTC)"

    At this point, I really can't tell whether he's just being disingenuous, or if he truly can't grasp the notion that it's possible for conduct on a talk page to be disruptive. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Khabboos

    Result of the appeal by Khabboos

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Based on the evidence in the statements above, I would decline this appeal and limit their ability to file further appeals for some period, perhaps six months or longer (based on other topic-ban timeframes). --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 19:22, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Less than a month has gone by since Khaboos's last appeal at AE. I agree that this appeal should be declined and that Khabboos should not be allowed to file further appeals more often than once every six months. EdJohnston (talk) 20:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Agree with decline per my comments on their user talk. Zad68 21:25, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Given that this request doesn't adequately address the requirements listed in WP:GAB which is what I said Khabboos needed to show. That is, the reason the sanction was necessary and imposed (a reflection on their behaviour), and why with evidence it isn't required any more. I would also support a restriction that they not appeal again for at least six months. Also, for disclosure, I've filed an SPI on Khabboos (re User:Saharadess); I'm not convinced it's Khabboos but the evidence is too much to ignore. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Sue Rangell

    Sue Rangell warned; no other action taken. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 15:38, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Sue Rangell

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Lightbreather (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:45, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Sue Rangell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control#Discretionary sanctions :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 11:37, 5 July 2014 Breaks expectations for Decorum described at Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors
    2. 11:45, 5 July 2014 Breaks expectations for Decorum described at Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors
    3. 12:41, 12 July 2014 Breaks WP:PA: "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Misplaced Pages. Comment on content, not on the contributor."
    4. 13:05, 12 July 2014 Breaks Purpose of Misplaced Pages, Neutral point of view, Battleground conduct, and Seeking community input. (Among other edits, two whole sections, that had been in the article for months, were removed. That content added WP:BALASPS to the article and answered two questions a Misplaced Pages might ask: Why was this law passed? And was it ever challenged in court?)
    5. 13:16, 12 July 2014] Breaks Neutral point of view, and, although the edit summary includes "Let's discuss," the content "Replaced" has been discussed in the recent past - without consensus to keep. In fact, the "Germany" section is part of what started the long war that lead to the ArbCom case that left multiple pro-gun editors topic banned, some other editors warned (though neither Sue nor I were involved parties), and discretionary sanctions being placed on articles related to gun control!
    6. 13;40, 12 July 2014 Breaks Avoid inappropriate summaries. (Sue makes old allegation of "PUSH"; Battleground conduct: furtherance of grudges and personal disputes.)
    7. 13:46, 12 July 2014 Breaks Avoid inappropriate summaries. (Sue removes sourced content with misleading edit summary and without community input.)
    8. 13:47, 12 July 2014 Breaks Avoid vagueness. (Sue removes sourced content with misleading edit summary and without community input.)
    9. 18:55, 12 July 2014 Breaks expectations for Decorum described at Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 15:08, 20 January 2013 Rollback rights removed for failure to properly understand the meaning of "vandalism".
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Participated in recent ArbCom with comments, statements. Has participated in a previous ARE here. Has recently edited articles that have a discretionary sanctions notice at the top of their talk pages.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    She took me to ANI for "vandalism" once and it almost boomeranged on her.) This is related to old "sanction" above (removal of rollback rights) because she appears to see at least some of my work as "vandalism," which no one has ever agreed with.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified here:

    Discussion concerning Sue Rangell

    @Lightbreather: "But I want to ask, what personal information does an editor with account creator rights have access to?" Users involved in the account creation process with the Account Creator flag Do not have any more access to private information than a user without the flag. The flag allows users to create accounts pass the "six per twenty four hour period" limit and are also able to create accounts which trip the anti-spoofing and titleblack list checks. Mlpearc (open channel) 17:05, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Sue Rangell

    Great, pulled into yet another waste of time by Lightbreather. This is exactly why I do not edit where she edits, and in my very humble opinion, exactly why she was topic banned. I really don't have anything to say here. If somebody has a serious question, I'm happy to answer, otherwise I think this request is pretty much self-defeating. Be well, everyone. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Collect

    Perhaps one of the topic-banned pro-gun editors is harassing me. Perhaps someone who's not been involved in these disputes. But I want to ask, what personal information does an editor with account creator rights have access to? I will be happy to provide diffs in addition to the ones I gave above, and I'll spend the rest of the day getting a few to support the comments that I just made. Thanks, as always, for your time.

    Looks more like a fishing expedition than anything else. LB has a quite significant proportion of her total edits on the Gun articles, AFAICT well over 40% of total edits, with another 10% in user space mainly on the same topic, not even counting project space edits on the same topic. SR has about 5% of her edits on that topic.


    Thus the implication that SR is a SPA in any sense on the gun issue, or that she is behind a mysterious IP threat is not gonna get a particularly strong response here, and the fact is the OP has, to put it charitably, misstated his "case" if one looks at the offending diffs she has posted. Collect (talk) 14:37, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    @LB -- I did not refer to numbers but to percentages. If you made proportionately the same number of "gnome edits" on many other topics, I suggest you would not be at over 50% on one topic. In my honest opinion, a person who devotes more than half of all his edits to a single topic - even if they are "gnome edits" which is problematic looking at them, is likely to be excessively interested in that single main topic. As for a "degree in journalism" - that and $4 will buy you a latte at Starbucks. Maybe. Collect (talk) 17:37, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Lightbreather

    If it is OK, I will place my replies to individuals here. (The way I did replies in the Scal ARE was confusing.)

    @Mlpearc: Thanks for the info about account creation rights. Lightbreather (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    @Sue Rangell: Listen, could you please not talk to and about me like that. If we worked in the same office and I was standing in the room with you, would you talk to or about me like that? Lightbreather (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    @EdJohnston: Of course, you and any other admins who will decide this request are the ones that I most wish to understand me. My frustration right now reminds me of that I felt when I was a new editor to gun-control and in a "discussion" with about 10-12 experienced editors using jargon I'd never heard and referring to processes I knew nothing about. I learned pretty fast, but I guess I'm not doing as well with this enforcement request process. I almost feel like ones needs to be or know a lawyer to edit here. I've read the instructions up-top repeatedly, not to mention the ones you're given when you actually hit "Click here" and start working on the form.

    I thought I was pointing to the correct "sanctions" above, based on the Principles highlighted in the ArbCom's Final decision, but I guess I didn't. Although the diffs themselves won't change, I'll try to figure out what exact "sanctions" language I should be citing. Also, I would be happy to lop off about 80% of my comments above, if someone would please enforce the Decorum guidance and remove the insults and character assassination. I'll say what I've said many times: I'll be happy to respond to evidence that is brought against me, but it's hard to respond to "Great, another waste of my time, "Looks like a fishing expedition," and "LB was showing CRUSH behavior." Lightbreather (talk) 01:24, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    @Scalhotrod: First, I absolutely disagree that the question I asked at the diff you gave is accusatory or sexist, unless maybe if you take it out of the context in which it was presented. Considering the blackeye WP has received for its 85% male make-up, it is a question that admins and higher-level WP management should be asking themselves. As for your saying that Sue and I "share the same outlook," and Sue saying that she and I are on the same side (or something to that effect), her edit history gives clear evidence to the contrary. However, that's not the problem. The problems are the aggressive reverts and the personal revtalk and talk-page comments:

    • Revtalk POV/Pushing:- misleading, too -incorrect analysis -misleading
    • Revtalk Ownership:
    • Revtalk SPA:
    • Revtalk Vandalism: At ArbCom, Sue mentioned that I was taken to ANI for vandalism - but not it was she who took me there, or that it was judged that my edits were not vandalism, or that the allegation almost boomeranged on her.
    • Other revtalk lectures naming me:
    • Revtalk ("No you stop") and comments to TParis after he asked her to stop hounding me. I know admins don't need to be treated like gods, but wow! Lightbreather (talk) 00:49, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
    Request to Admins

    I've mentioned it here and on this article's talk page, but would someone please remove the comments of Collect and Capitalismojo from this discussion? They're only "evidence" that these editors have a poor opinion of me, and they're examples of what I have been experiencing since I was a newbie on WP last August. In fact, Sue's comments here are ad hominem, too, though I think they should stand as evidence of the kind of comments she makes to me over and over and over again regardless of the forum, and without evidence. (Meanwhile, I bite my tongue and bend over backward to keep my responses civil and to provide ample evidence, and Sue has found a way to give that an offensive label - based on an essay; she calls it "crush" behavior.)

    Once an editor is labeled as something - SPA, vandal, "crusher," "pusher," whatever (and Sue has called me all of these things, repeatedly, on as many pages as she could) - regardless of whether any evidence ever accompanies the allegations (it didn't) or whether anyone was ever sanctioned for any misconduct (until recently, I wasn't), it seems to follow her/him around regardless of how many times you ask others to either 1. Provide evidence, 2. Stop using the label, or 3. Take it to the proper forum. It is not WP:5P to call other editors names and make allegations of poor conduct over and over again without evidence.

    Even if my efforts to get others to stop doing this in edit summaries and on other talk pages has failed, surely here, where DS Decorum says, "Uninvolved administrators are asked to ensure that enforcement cases are not disrupted; and may remove statements, or restrict or block editors, as necessary to address inappropriate conduct" you could, please, honor this request. I have mentioned it elsewhere, but I believe one reason many women avoid or leave WP is because these kinds of attacks are, from my experience and observation, routine. Lightbreather (talk) 16:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    Reply to Admins

    This is in reply to EdJohnston's request. I will focus on "Diffs of edits" number 4.

    One of the things that came up last fall while there were a lot of disputes on the Federal Assault Weapons Ban page is that the article had no section explaining the background of the ban. Why was the ban proposed and passed? I developed numerous versions of a background section, which most of the editors weren't opposed to in principal. I sought a lot of input from other editors in developing the section. On March 14, I added the Background section and Gaijin42, a pro-gun editor, tweaked it to his liking. Then Sue made a series of edits, including removing one whole paragraph that was key to the ban's background per numerous high-quality sources. Gaijin42 helped me restore and keep the content The content stayed there until July 12, right after my topic ban was proposed, when she deleted the whole section (and another one I'd added - without opposition by or conflict from other editors - about Legal challenges) with the edit summary "Various fixes and restorations". If that isn't evidence of vindictive editing - hidden behind a misleading edit summary - what is it?

    If she's willing, I think my old mentor, StarryGrandma, could add some evidence of Sue Rangell's not WP:5P behavior, though considering some of the things Sue has said to SG, I wouldn't blame her for declining. Lightbreather (talk) 18:11, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    @EdJohnston et al, considering the months of anguish Sue has caused me, and the damage to my reputation without evidence, I'd hoped she would be topic banned along with Scalhotrod and myself, but it is a huge relief to know that at least she is on Admin radar and warned. Thank you. Lightbreather (talk) 14:53, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

    PS: I don't know if there's a place to give feedback on this process, but I think that more emphasis should be put on one aspect of the "How to file a request" instructions at the top of this page: Conduct on this page says: Most editors under Arbitration Committee sanctions are neither trolls nor vandals and should be treated with the same respect as any other editor. We should still assume good faith. Arbitration Committee decisions are designed to be coercive, not punitive. Messages posted here that egregiously violate Misplaced Pages's civility or personal attacks policies will be redacted and may be deleted.

    I think if there were an announcement that Admins were going to start coming down hard on the kinds of behaviors below "Counterargument" on the WP:TALKNO pyramid, there would quickly be a Wiki-wide improvement in civility. ("Egregious" here, I hope, doesn't mean you have to call someone a four-letter word or make your-mama remarks. That's a bar you'd set for a locker room, not a board room.) Lightbreather (talk) 15:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitalismojo

    I understand that it must be painful to be topic banned. One would like to respond to those who are seen to have argued against you. This request seems to me to be an effort to retaliate against someone who criticized the OP during an ARE debate. Sue Rangell stated that she felt that LB was showing WP:CRUSH behavior, and that LB's editing had caused her to avoid all areas (guns) where LB was editing. Though I did not participate in that ARE discussion, I feel the same and also have striven to avoid this editor's area. Apparently uninvolved admins believed that there was something to this as well, if the ban is any indication. I would suggest that the OP take a deep breath, withdraw the complaint, and contemplate a more collegial approach during the term of the topic-ban. Capitalismojo (talk) 16:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    You were seriously warned by an admin then and you have been topic-banned now. That banning was not done by admins without thought and without the "proof" you say that no one has provided. Many editors and admins have attempted to give suggestions and guidance, it hasn't helped yet but perhaps this time off will allow you to consider. Sue agrees with you philosophically and you have driven her (and others) from an entire area of the project. Your response to being topic-banned is now apparently to lash out against her for sharing her concerns. I don't find that helpful, nor do I see much value in this Request. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:06, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Scalhotrod

    For what its worth, having just been the subject of a previous process like this and also accused by Lightbreather, Sue Rangell and I have edited many of the same articles, had discussions on Talk pages, and have been able to find common ground and find consensus on content pretty much every time. As stated previously, SR and LB share the same outlook, but only LB seems to have difficulty in working within the WP Community. I feel this speak volumes about LB's attitude towards Misplaced Pages. Obviously I do not have the perspective that LB has of the situation, but I have never felt the need to make accusatory (and somewhat sexist) comments about the Editors or Admins as was done here. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 20:39, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Sue Rangell

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Sue Rangell does not require a DS notice for Gun Control because she participated earlier this month in the Scalhotrod AE case.

    Many people are aware that Lighbreather and Sue Rangell don't like each other. At first glance the behavior of the two editors on talk pages seems comparable. Short of an actual block for personal attacks, it's not obvious what can be done about that. Some of LightBreather's complaints appear random. It is unclear what a recent request for Rollback (now successful) would have to do with Sue Rangell's editing of Gun Control articles. If we were to go through this page and throw out everything that is off topic it might shrink to 20% of its size. I would suggest we take no action on this unless Lightbreather can boil down this report to verifiable examples of sanctionable misconduct on articles. In her list, only #4 through #9 are edits of articles. Perhaps she can explain how these constitute edits which are not allowed under the Gun Control decision. If she herself reverted any of these changes, that could be mentioned. And she could link to any talk page discussions she herself participated in about these changes. EdJohnston (talk) 23:42, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

    I'm of the same mind as Ed, only seeing some frustration with LB on Sue's part; not seeing (with the evidence presented so far) the type of disruptive behavior in cases that usually lead to topic bans. Unless there's something more, I'd concur with closing this with no action. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:30, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

    • I am under the impression that user under TBAN is not allowed to raise issue in the area that does not directly involve them, i.e., I don't think LB actually can make this request. Under this, I would completely throw this out (which is a stronger position than close without action). - Penwhale | 15:30, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
    • In this case, the admin who imposed the topic ban exempted this request from the topic ban because it was made immediately prior to the imposition of the ban. The request may therefore be processed. On the merits, I see a higher-than-acceptable level of personal animosity in the edits by Sue Rangell in evidence, and I would warn Sue Rangell that she may be made subject to sanctions if she continues to focus on contributors rather than content in this manner. I do not think that sanctions beyond this warning are required now, if only, as a practical matter, because the mutual animosity isn't likely to flare up again soon now that Lightbreather has been topic-banned.  Sandstein  15:49, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
    • LB, I think it's possible the diff you have above was vindictive based on your history with her, but even if that were the case I'm not seeing enough to warrant anything more than what's suggested above. I would warn Sue Rangell as Sandstein suggests and will close this with such a result unless there's some additional comments by other admins within the next 24-48 hours. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 02:05, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
    • I agree with the proposal to close without action, though I find some of Sue Rangell's comments disturbing. If the incivility continues and the the problem comes back to AE I imagine that some kind of gun-control topic ban will be discussed next time. EdJohnston (talk) 14:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

    User:84.106.11.117

    Talk page semi'd for two months as a normal admin action. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:39, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning User:84.106.11.117

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Robert McClenon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:12, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    84.106.11.117 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley/Proposed_decision :
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    IP files a Request for Clarification of arbitration ruling: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FClarification_and_Amendment&diff=616739574&oldid=616719355 Please note that, because an RFC is in progress as to the pseudo-science status of Cold fusion, this filing was an attempt to game the system by asking the arbitrators to bypass consensus.

    IP removes a discussion of editing by IP addresses: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617100203&oldid=617090622

    Chaheel Riens restores it: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617103815&oldid=617100203

    IP collapses the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617109665&oldid=617106497

    Administrator Binksternet states: "Please do not hide the discussion": https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617110112&oldid=617109665

    IP hides the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617110112&oldid=617109665

    Filing party unhides discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617116627&oldid=617116416

    IP rebukes filing party on talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ARobert_McClenon&diff=617117157&oldid=616790408

    IP collapses the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617117185&oldid=617116627

    Jim1138 restores the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617117389&oldid=617117185

    IP collapses the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617117618&oldid=617117389

    Jim1138 restores the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617118082&oldid=617117618

    IP collapses the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617118312&oldid=617118082

    At this point Acroterion blocks the IP for 48 hours. (IP is at 5RR, and talk pages are not exempt from 3RR.)

    NeilN restores the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACold_fusion&diff=617119788&oldid=617118312

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Cold fusion has been semi-protected indefinitely due to disruptive editing by IPs. There was one previous edit war on the talk page, but the IPs had not yet been warned of DS. There have been too many demands for edits, in which the IPs have expected the volunteer editors to respond quickly. (Also, the demands and questions have been supportive of cold fusion, and the registered editors have mostly been skeptical of cold fusion.) Request, at a minimum, a weekly 1RR restriction against this IP in the area of Cold fusion and other fringe areas. Request consideration of extending the 1RR to other IPs in the 84.104.*.* to 84.106.*.* range, since these addresses shift. Request consideration of a topic-ban by this particular IP from Cold fusion.

    User:Lord Roem asks for evidence of the IPs shifting. Another editor has stated that he thinks that all of the 84.104.*.* through 84.106.*.* editors are the same. The total number of IPs is large, leading a reasonable editor to think that they are dynamic. However, that is not provable. (Checkuser is of course not applicable to IPs. Whois can determine whether they co-locate.) I have not researched whether there is consistent quacking. Thank you for advising me that talk pages can, in special situations, be semi-protected, a less extreme measure than the use of discretionary sanctions. (The periodic massive disruption to Talk: Cold fusion is such a special situation.) If the disruption resumes when the IP comes off block, I will request talk page semi-protection. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3A84.106.11.117&diff=617141655&oldid=617126678


    Discussion concerning User:84.106.11.117

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by User:84.106.11.117

    Statement by Johnuniq

    Talk:Cold fusion has been plagued with people wanting to discuss various side issues such as whether certain factors might be the cause for the failure of reliable sources to confirm the CF phenomenon. One recent revert is 19 June 2014 where my attempt to close an unproductive discussion was challenged. Note that the whole talk page at the time of that diff concerns off-topic stuff, and similar had been going on for some time. It appears that 84.106.11.117 is familiar with the history of the CF talk page and was attempting some WP:POINT scoring by closing sections that are off-topic, but which might be considered reasonable under the unusual circumstances of such hotly promoted pseudoscience. Johnuniq (talk) 05:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning User:84.106.11.117

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    • Yeah, looks like semiprotection would be enough to help the situation over there. Beyond that, as Sandstein says, seems this IP disruption is being handled through the normal channels. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 22:51, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

    Pigsonthewing

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Pigsonthewing

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Nikkimaria (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:17, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Pigsonthewing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Pigsonthewing_and_infoboxes : "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes"
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 18 July 2014 - editor adds an infobox template
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    User was asked to self-revert and declined to do so.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Pigsonthewing

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Pigsonthewing

    I have been mindful not to breach this restriction since it was imposed, ten months ago. And in this case, I did not do so.

    What I did do, was to fix a malformed infobox, added here by a good faith, but naive, new editor (this article represents their only edits), including the code: 

    '''Born''': Albert Ernst Giovanni SCHRAM, 2 September 1964, De Bilt (The Netherlands).
'''Residence''': Lae (Papua New Guinea) & Negrar (Italy).
'''Nationality''': Dutch (The Netherlands).
'''Alma Mater''': European University Institute, Fiesole (Italy).
'''Occupation''': University President.
    Albert Schram in 2013 Born: Albert Ernst Giovanni SCHRAM, 2 September 1964, De Bilt (The Netherlands). Residence: Lae (Papua New Guinea) & Negrar (Italy). Nationality: Dutch (The Netherlands). Alma Mater: European University Institute, Fiesole (Italy). Occupation: University President.

    That had the dreadful visual appearance shown alongside. My replacement had more usual, correct formatting. The restriction does not disallow me from fixing existing infoboxes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:29, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

    @Callanecc: Nor is there a restriction on me discussing (on an article talk page or elsewhere) improvements to an existing infobox. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz

    Pigsonthewing did not violate the terms of the arbcom ruling. He did not add an infobox to the article in question, but corrected the formatting on a very poorly constructed infobox that had been uncontroversially added to the article nearly a year ago. If one looks at this narrowly, in terms of the coding, one could argue that he removed one infobox and added a different one containing the same content, but that is pedantry. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 13:19, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by RexxS

    Albert Schram Born: Albert Ernst Giovanni SCHRAM, 2 September 1964, De Bilt (The Netherlands). Residence: Lae (Papua New Guinea) & Negrar (Italy). Nationality: Dutch (The Netherlands). Alma Mater: European University Institute, Fiesole (Italy). Occupation: University President.

    This accusation is absolute nonsense.

    @Callanecc: You don't need to make up a definition of an infobox from thin air. We already have a definition of an infobox in the very first line of Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Infoboxes:

    • "An infobox template is a panel, usually in the top right of an article, next to the lead section, (in the desktop view) or at the very top of an article (in mobile view), that summarizes key features of the page's subject. Infoboxes may also include an image, and/ or a map.

    A panel ... that summarises key features of the page's subject.

    How on earth can you possibly not recognise this edit as adding a panel ... that summarises key features of the page's subject.?

    Not only that, but it was "in the top right, next to the lead section".

    Look at it - reproduced here as it was when added by Erganbjem, who started editing on 8 August 2013 and who had made just 35 edits by the time he added the infobox (i.e the panel that summarises key features of the page's subject) on 22 September 2013.

    It is abundantly clear that not only was the intention to add a panel in the top right of an article, next to the lead section, ... that summarises key features of the page's subject., but the effect was to achieve that. Nobody is contesting that it was a rather suboptimal implementation, even if it was the best that such a new editor could manage - especially as he never edited any other article, and was trying to use the visual editor to add the infobox.

    So now we are in the ludicrous position of an editor who stalks Andy's contributions asking for a sanction to prevent him from even improving a very poor infobox. This needs to be thrown out and some examination made of the number of times that Nikkimaria has arrived at an article for the first time just to take issue with Andy's legitimate edits. That needs to stop. --RexxS (talk) 15:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Sitush

    I'm with RexxS here, and I'm really not a fan of infoboxes. Any attempt to assert that this particular edit breached the ArbCom ruling seems like pedantry. The thing was already there, just poorly constructed and obviously in need of a fix. If Nikkimaria were that concerned, she could have simply reverted Potw and then done the fix in their name. Let's use a bit of common sense. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Gerda

    The edit helped a new user and improved the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Pigsonthewing

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    • This looks like a crystal clear (this was a bit too far, see further comments) violation of the restriction for which I would suggest a one week block. Given the denial on their talk page I'd like to wait for a statement from Pigsonthewing. Based on Gerda's comment on my talk page I'll clarify the reason I wanted a statement and more admin opinions. Pigsonthewing added an infobox to replace that summary which is where I see the breach of the restriction. Putting it another way if Andy had got into a discussion about this on the talk page (or the talk page of the user who added the summary) I would have considered that a violation so by extension and my reading of the restriction this is a violation. I am open be being more lenient with the one week block after a statement from Andy and from other admins. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    Regarding whether this was fixing or adding, both Help:Infobox ("fixed-format table") and Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Infoboxes ("Infoboxes generally use the template software feature. (It is possible to hand-code an infobox using table markup...)") seem to define an infobox as a fixed-format table which the original was not. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    Given the clarifying comments and discussion I have no problem with this being closed with no sanction. Thank you to everyone who commented it definitely helped to define this sanction. As I've said before whilst I take a fairly hard line to what is and is not a violation (and no ill will intended Andy) I am very happy (and generally prefer) to be roved wrong in cases like this. Thank you all, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:37, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
    • The request has merit. In the edit at issue, Pigsonthewing added an {{Infobox}} template to the article that was not there before. In addition, what it replaced was a thumbnail image with a caption, which is not an infobox, as Callanecc explains above. What Pigsonthewing did therefore wasn't merely fixing an existing infobox. Pigsonthewing is an experienced editor and should have known better than to try to game the limits of an Arbitration Committee restriction. They also should have immediately reverted themselves when asked to, instead of accusing the editor who reported them of stalking. In view of their uncooperative response to this request, I am of the view that a two-week block (considering the range of up to a month provided for by the enforcement remedy) is necessary to prevent Pigsonthewing from future noncompliance with the restriction.  Sandstein  14:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    • This administrative response strikes me as counter-productive. Why do we have to enter into a debate over whether or not what was there on the page before Pigsonthewings' edits "really was" an infobox, and whether he was just "fixing" one or "inserting" one? The simple fact is that it was obviously meant to be an infobox. The previous editor wanted there to be an infobox, and had tried to insert one; Potw helped him finish the job. The intention behind Potw's restriction is to stop him from alienating other editors by pushing for the insertion of boxes in articles where others have previously chosen not to have any. Penalizing this edit would be counter to the spirit of this sanction.
      I also do think it would be counter to the letter of the rule. Pace Callanecc, I do not consider the use of template code as a defining feature of what an infobox is. An infobox is defined by what it does for the reader, not by what wikicode it is produced by. If I add something to an article that looks like an infobox, quacks like an infobox and swims like an infobox, but I have done so not through a template but through static table code, then I have still added an infobox. An infobox is a box at the top of the article that contains certain pieces of basic information in tabulated form. In this sense, what was on the page clearly was one.
      Incidentally, I find it ironic that this is now (I think) the second time that I, a card-carrying infobox hater, have felt the need to defend Potw over these arb sanctions. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:40, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    • I am with FPaS here. Whilst technically PotW was adding an infobox, in reality he was merely fixing what was an attempt to add an infobox but ended up as a malformed mess (but, none the less, a recognisable attempt at an infobox). A sanction here would be counterproductive. Black Kite (talk) 20:04, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    • I'm on the fence. Looking at the revision prior to Pigsonthewing's edit, there was an "infobox," though malformed. Reading the letter of the restriction, Pigsonthewing is prohibited from "adding... infoboxes," which read in context with the rest of the decision seems to jive with what FPaS discusses above. The restriction is intended to remove his disruptive presence from discussions or disputes about adding an infobox on an article that wasn't already there. Still, I do believe that this is on the line, that Pigsonthewing should not be making edits to infoboxes period to avoid these issues. I'm uncomfortable with this edit, cause I can see the case for how this is gaming the system, or more importantly, could lead to that mindset down the road. Nevertheless, I'm leaning against a block based on the strong argument Pigsonthewing did not substantively "add" an "infobox" that wasn't already there. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
    • This is the type of push the boundaries edit that is inherently problematic. Needing to have this discussion over whether a particular set of formatting qualifies as a preexisting infobox is contrary to the spirit of the sanction. Still, I think what was there does narrowly come down on the side of a preexisting infobox, so per the letter of the sanction, I'm opposing a block this time. I'd still advise Pigsonthewings to avoid anything that could even be argued to be adding or removing an infobox going forward, because if you keep ignoring the spirit of the arbitration sanction, your likely to end up blocked even if you abide by the letter of it. Monty845 23:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)