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:: A good point, but wouldn't this all be worth mentioning, then, ''alongside'' the fact that Devizes was the first to use the term in Britain. It is after all merely a section dedicated to the etymology of the English word 'holocaust', a word which was nevertheless derived from its earliest Latin usage by medieval scholars. I will rewrite the section emphasising that the word did not explicitly refer to Jews until the mid-20th century (despite the fact its first-ever use in England WAS indeed in specific reference to Jews - a point which complicates your thesis somewhat..) --] (]) 08:16, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
:: A good point, but wouldn't this all be worth mentioning, then, ''alongside'' the fact that Devizes was the first to use the term in Britain. It is after all merely a section dedicated to the etymology of the English word 'holocaust', a word which was nevertheless derived from its earliest Latin usage by medieval scholars. I will rewrite the section emphasising that the word did not explicitly refer to Jews until the mid-20th century (despite the fact its first-ever use in England WAS indeed in specific reference to Jews - a point which complicates your thesis somewhat..) --] (]) 08:16, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
There is no evidence whatsoever to support the claim in the first paragraph of this article, that "6 million Jews were killed"! Even the Jews think its a little over 1 million that died. Most who died in prisoner of war camps did so due to typhus and starvation, and most were not Jews. This is the most ridiculous, one sided article I have ever read! There is no objectivity in even one sentence in this article. It was obviously written with no regard for accuracy or historical fact checking. Just about every source is some Jewish guy with an axe to grind and an agenda for perpetuating the tremendous psychological advantage over the Christian world the Jews have enjoyed by "guilt tripping" the Americans and Germans. You should be ashamed Misplaced Pages!
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Thanks for helping - Danke für evtl. Hilfe --asdfj, 09:59 CEST, 2013, June 3rd--
I've never heard of it. I do know that most Sephardic Jews are Holocaust deniers. Sephardic Jews and Karaites were mostly unaffected by the Holocaust. In Israel, Sephardic Jews make Holocaust jokes all the time and tell Ashkenazi Jews that their ancestors are bars of soap (mocking the Holocaust). That's when they aren't saying we are Khazars and not real Jews (because they say that too): — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.228.228.166 (talk) 03:21, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Everywhere the Nazis were in control, Jews were exterminated or nearly so. The only place in Europe that they escaped (besides Britain) was Spain and Portugal. Sephardic communities elsewhere in France and the Balkans were VERY MUCH affected. I think the IP editor is basically guilty of vandalizing this section of the TP, and am requesting that an Admni "hat" that comment. Thanks. HammerFilmFan (talk) 16:09, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Notice of RfC and request for participation
There is an RfC on the Gun control talk page which may be of interest to editors of this page:
It says: "Finally, he argued that those of a non-criminal bent who committed crimes did so because they wished to conform to the values of the group they had joined and were afraid of being branded "weak" by their colleagues if they refused.". Does "argue" here mean "contradict" or "say"? I mean, you probably mean the first one, but it may lead to misunderstandings. It's a difficult topic and the term is ambitious, so I'd like you to be precise. Thanks in advance! Thomas Limberg (Schmogrow) 93.197.54.123 (talk) 09:22, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I read it as 'presented with evidence' that sort of thing. It is not an uncommon use of the word, but perhaps we could change it. Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:41, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, yeah, thanks for your opinion! But I actually don't wanna know how you read it, but what it really means! The word "argue" is ambigious. It can also mean "contradict". You have interpreted it the way you did. But since the word "argue" also has the meaning of "contradict", I wanna know it for sure!!!!! Thomas Limberg (Schmogrow) 93.197.54.123 (talk) 14:07, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I would bet real money that is what it means. Perhaps others might chime in. I don't see how one could read it another way. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
"I don't see how one could read it another way.", that is actually pretty simple: I translated the word argue into German and from about 25 translations 3 mean "contradict". Furthermore, when you read the whole paragraph, the historian (Hans Buchheim) makes a series of controverts to what people may think. The writer of the paragraph does not make any point that this series would stop. So I think, the last one is a controvert, too. Thomas Limberg (Schmogrow) 93.197.54.123 (talk) 14:30, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
"As a native English speaker", you should know, that it has two meanings!!! Even I knew or at least supposed that!!! (as a native German speaker). Yeah, let's wait for others to give their opinion! Thomas Limberg (Schmogrow) 93.197.54.123 (talk) 17:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I'd say that Dbrodbeck is right. If it were to mean 'contradict', the paragraph would have presented the author's own opinion after the part that was supposed to be 'disproved'. As it stands, it is rather clear that the author 'argues' or 'presents' his own thoughts in what follows. 83.83.1.229 (talk) 09:33, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Eugen Fischer and his contact/influence with Mengele
At this edit, @Paul Barlow reverted this edit by @Tomsega, regarding the first use of the word in Britain, stating "misleading and irrelevant - and it isn't the earliest use of the term either".
Based on The Jew in the medieval book : English antisemitism, 1350-1500, Devizes actually wrote in Latin, which should be mentioned, but it is certainly an early use of a Latin root and it does not seem unreasonable to mention it. It's also mentioned at Names of the Holocaust#The Holocaust to which I've added a cite to that book. —— 14:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
The main problem is that it is completely misleading. "Holocaust" meant all-consuming fire - a meaning that was the dominant one well into the 1970s. All that the reference means is that a group of Jews got burnt in a fire. The fact that they were Jews is purely coincidental. It would be like referring to the first use of the term "final solution", which just happened to be a combination of those words, but other wise had no connection to what the Nazis meant by it. Or the first use of "Shoah" (which means "disaster". No doubt many events involving Jews have been referred to as "disasters"). It creates the false impression that there was some special connection between the word "holocaust" and Jews dating back to medieval terms. But there never was. The connection dates from the 1960s-70s when the word becomes the most common term in English to characterise the Nazi "final solution". Paul B (talk) 14:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
A good point, but wouldn't this all be worth mentioning, then, alongside the fact that Devizes was the first to use the term in Britain. It is after all merely a section dedicated to the etymology of the English word 'holocaust', a word which was nevertheless derived from its earliest Latin usage by medieval scholars. I will rewrite the section emphasising that the word did not explicitly refer to Jews until the mid-20th century (despite the fact its first-ever use in England WAS indeed in specific reference to Jews - a point which complicates your thesis somewhat..) --Tomsega (talk) 08:16, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
