Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:18, 15 August 2014

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the What Misplaced Pages is not page.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59Auto-archiving period: 7 days

‎WP:NOTCENSORED and diacritics

The only place I found this to fall through is in the case of spelling with or without diacritics. I'm not talking about titling, I'm talking content anywhere in an article. Once a title spelling is agreed upon by consensus (let's use a non-diacritic spelling for argument sake), we are "not allowed" to mention anywhere in the rest of the article any alternate diacritic spelling, no matter the amount of sourcing, no matter if the diacritic spelling is used 90% of the time. This is applied vice-versa also. I'm not saying this is Misplaced Pages's direct policy so it's easy for Misplaced Pages to stand back and say "we don't have anything like that in our policies", but through rfc's and guidelines Misplaced Pages indirectly supports it. It's a done deal... cannot be mentioned in any article. I assume if this pocket of excising exists then others like it might exists too that simply haven't been brought to our attention. So while Misplaced Pages proper may not censor, by allowing its editors and administrators complete freedom to do what they want, an article or broad spectrum of articles/topics may not contain all the info they could. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:30, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

• Again? Fyunck's oft-WP:CANVASSED conviction that spelling "foreign" tennis players' names with non basic fonts constitutes "censorship" of "their English names" (i.e. having Björn Borg is "censoring" the "English name" found on Wimbledon's wooden scoreboards) has been put to the test twice at WP:TENNISNAMES and WP:TENNISNAMES2 with WP:SNOW results both times. Spelling tennis players in line with every other bio on en.wp does not constitute "censorship". Fyunck, long past time to Misplaced Pages:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Are you still around here spreading more lies? Goodness. Please keep my name out of your incessant attacks as I don't want to go to administration yet again. That is not what was said so leave the personal jabs at home and go spread that manure somewhere else. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:46, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

WP:NPA to accuse another editor of "spreading lies" is quite serious. But back to the issue, please stop taking this claim that WP:TENNISNAMES and WP:TENNISNAMES2 is "censorship" around wikipedia, you are wasting editor's time. It's evident that Users:Jarble, Masem, Cyclopia above are having a serious conversation and no one benefits from you bringing foreign tennis players umlauts into it........... please desist. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Your lies and fabrications are serious to me... they always have been and always will be, so stop making them. I will never stop the claim of censorship on a blanket across-the-board ban on common spellings as rfc'd on "Tennisnames2." "Tennisnames" has no bearing on what was said. You are the one dragging my name into this and making it personal. Stop your ridiculousness and move on. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeeaaahh, the decision of editors to not include a diacritic-filled version of a name if the de-diacritic version is used is not an issue of censorship (though I do question that approach, I see no reason why the diacritic version can't be mentioned once in the lead sentence and then move on). --MASEM (t) 00:03, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Crowdfunding References

Should there be a warning in the WP:NOTADVERTISING section about crowdfunding (Kickstarter and Indiegogo) since their use has become very prevalent? Talk:Kickstarter#Kickstarter_as_a_source_in_articles states that a reference to the crowdfunding webpage shouldn't be included in an article until AFTER the funding period had ended. Thoughts? • Sbmeirow • Talk • 22:52, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

That isn't a rule, its one editor making a suggestion, having a brief discussion with few people, and then giving up on it. There is nothing wrong with referencing the page someone is mentioned is getting funding from. Dream Focus 22:54, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

KS pages and the like should be treated as WP:SPS - they're fine as sources alongside third-party and secondary sources, but alone will appear promotional and primary, insufficient to support an article. --MASEM (t) 03:29, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

We're not talking about them being used to establish the notability of an article. We're talking about articles mentioning they got funding from them, that something relevant that should be included in the article. Nothing wrong with linking to the primary source for the information. If we mention someone got a grant of money from the government, we can have a reference linking to official government webpage confirming that information. Same way with referencing an official announcement on a website for a notable award. Dream Focus 04:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's a perfectly legit reason to use KS as long as other sources establish notability and/or importance. --MASEM (t) 05:18, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't really agree with Masem here, at least not without very strong qualifications. Kickstarter etc. can only be used to establish the fact of the funding request, and other similarly plain facts, such as the name of the person starting the project and its claimed nature. Otherwise the information there is as totally unreliable as any other attempt to raise money for a project: pure and unadulterated promotionalism. Their articles are written for the purposes of soliciting funding, and the importance of Kickstarter is because of the great potential success of this manner of fundraising. We should leave this field to them. I would normally remove any claims derived from material there that cannot be independently verified; it may or may not be accurate, but it at best it is very likely to be selective. I aagree it's convenient source for such material, but I see no reason why it should be trusted. (I know Kickstarter goes to some trouble to ensure the material is not fraudulent or the project non-existent, which is why it can be used for plain facts. I have less knowledge of its competitors. In particular, I see no reason to trust local fundraising sites for anything at all, even real existence of the material promoted. Further discussion really belongs at WT:RS, not here. DGG ( talk ) 00:22, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

KS pages are no different from press releases. They are primary sources, and written with promotion in mind. So they aren't good for notability, BLP-quality references, or the like, but they can be used in conjunction with secondary sources to back up some statements. Standard care and practice when dealing with SPS, and of course we should not be including all the details of such pages into articles as to make the articles seem promotional. Common case in point, say video game develops opt to fund a sequel to a successful game through KS; both the original and sequel are notable via other means, but the developers provide details about the original game that no other secondary source has given. As long as we have verification of the identity, there's no reason the KS page cannot be used as a source for these details. --MASEM (t) 01:38, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Stealing a redirect

Not many people have used the WP:WINC redirect ... people generally use one of the 4 redirects listed in that section. Anyone mind if I steal it for Wikimedia North Carolina? (This wasn't my idea, btw, members have asked for it.) - Dank (push to talk) 20:21, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

the WINC shortcut only has about 10-some uses so it would seem reasonable to reuse it for the NC project, as long as the above cases are relinked appropriately. --MASEM (t) 23:06, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

It gets almost no hits either (3 in 90 days is indistinguishable from background noise), but a hatnote at the new target would be a good thing in case there are human users. Thryduulf (talk) 22:41, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Sure thing. Thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 00:07, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Is there some problem with WP:WMNC? VanIsaac_WS 00:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes ... "Wikimedia" isn't a unanimous choice (I don't have a preference). Also, WMNC is unpronounceable as an acronym. - Dank (push to talk) 01:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind, we're going with "WONC". Sorry for the hubbub :) - Dank (push to talk) 20:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Not a Social Network

I understand that the wikipedia is not a social network. But it may take some time for me to fully understand what the wiki is and what it isn't. Especially given that the other wikipedias I contribute to, apparently allow me to add comments that the wikipedians here would flag as 'social network' comments.

Also sometimes myself (and I bet some others) have the urge to leave those sorts of comments on related pages anyhow. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 08:33, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Applying rules judiciously

I think that there should be some clarification in the What Misplaced Pages is not article to instruct users on how to apply rules in a judicious manner. Some users may consider a WP:NOT rule as a one-size-fits-all application, while others may take deeper consideration as to whether the rule should be applied or whether a particular section or paragraph that the user considers applying a rule actually has merit to the article and should remain as is. By informing Wikipedians as to how to properly judge whether a WP:NOT rule applies to an article, it could alleviate some conflicts with the article's structure that may occur between users. TVtonightOKC (talk) 21:04, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

"Misplaced Pages is not technocracy"?

I have been questioning usefulness of templates lately. Templates are supposed to be useful, non-abusive, and simple. I found some to be none of these. Somehow, template-fanatics oppose deletion on any kind, like one template that is transcluded in no more than three pages. (Three pages!!) People are expected to be computer scientists or engineers, especially on templates. Lately, Misplaced Pages is supposed to be readable to general readers and educational. It is free editing, but it also requires donations. Editors are also expected to be experienced and quick-learners on templates. Sometimes, learning unnecessary and complex templates is frustrating.

As for wikilinking, it is very simple, but sometimes not necessary, unless it is for readers who generally should learn more about one topic or another. And tables have been used for easy editing and great styling. But it consumes more bytes than words alone. Well... people are expected (in a common sense) to format headings, like == Level 2 ==, and to do other HTML codings.

Also, there have been AFDs, TFDs, and other deletion types. Moreover, there have been requested moves and move reviews, prompting us to question stability of Misplaced Pages. And... how long will libraries stay open, and what will happen to print and online sources? Online articles nowadays require fee for viewership. So should Misplaced Pages be technocracy? If not, shall there be a policy about technocracy? If not, essay? --George Ho (talk) 06:18, 15 August 2014 (UTC)