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== |
== Appeal request: Prem Rawat== | ||
'''Initiated by ''' — ] |
'''Initiated by ''' — ] (]) 09:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC) | ||
; Case affected : {{RFARlinks| |
; Case affected : {{RFARlinks|Prem Rawat}} | ||
; Clauses to which an amendment is requested | ; Clauses to which an amendment is requested | ||
Discretionary sanction | |||
# Remedy 8.1 | |||
; List of users affected by or involved in this amendment | ; List of users affected by or involved in this amendment | ||
* |
* Momento(initiator) | ||
; Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request | ; Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request | ||
Line 20: | Line 19: | ||
; Information about amendment request | ; Information about amendment request | ||
*Prem Rawat ] | |||
* ] | |||
* I am requesting removal of the topic ban. | * I am requesting removal of the topic ban. | ||
=== Statement by |
=== Statement by Momento=== | ||
It has been 7 months since my last reported violation of the topic ban, although may be a technical violation, which is part of the reason for my request. Per a previous clarification, I'm allowed to revert banned editors at TPm pages, but I'm not allowed to talk about it. I was going to make an arguably gnomish edit on ] (combining 3 references which all support the same statement into one), and, today, I discovered a MonkBot error on ] which I technically cannot fix without violating the topic ban. I'm willing to abide by a 1RR per area of an article if it helps your decision, but I would prefer not to be bound by that in an active discussion. If I'm the second and fourth in A → B → A'b → B → B'A', I have made 2 reverts, but I'm actively working on the article. — ] ] 23:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:@{{u|Roger Davies}}. I don't see how you could reach that conclusion. I admit that I consider the IP's edit on ], restored by a real editor, absurd. But I wasn't planning to actually revert it. Consolidating 3 references (including the one added by the banned IP) into one isn't reverting the addition. And I was planning to revert a bot on ]. My further discussion on a potential edit war was hypothetical, but in that particular configuration, I would be trying to improve the article, while the opponent would be attempting to revert to the present state. However, I would agree to a 1RR limitation if the committee feels it necessary. — ] ] 06:38, 28 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:OK, I didn't mean to imply that I would be edit warring; I would prefer to be able to try variations, which would technically be "reverts", as it would probably be changing the wording (which I don't like, or find objectionable, or in violation of Misplaced Pages policies (but not BLP)) to something more like what was there previously, but it would ''never'' be exactly a revert. I'm willing to abide by 1RR per section or 0*RR (never revert ''reversions'' of my edits; 0RR is problematic, because of the expansive definition of "revert") if you feel it necessary. — ] ] 10:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:In regard possible changing the topic ban to 1RR; obviously I cannot dictate the form of the remedy, but I do think the 1RR/area/week allows more legitimate editing than 1RR/article/day. Even a restriction from article-space would allow me to ''suggest'' or ''discuss'' edits which have made some articles absurd, but not a policy violation. — ] ] 04:33, 2 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
On Nov 15th, 2012 I was indefinitely Topic Ban from all Prem Rawat articles for “Persistent Battleground Behaviour” by The Blade of the Northern Lights. | |||
===Statement by Collect=== | |||
TBOTNL gave no warning to me nor did he provide any diffs to support his claim I was engaging in “Persistent Battleground Behaviour”. | |||
Fifteen months later when I appealed my ban at WP:AE he provided three diffs to justify continuing my ban with the disclaimer “I'm not giving my own point of view on the truth or validity of any additions or removals”. | |||
I believe the three edits TBOTNL provided are fair, correct and in accordance to all Wiki policies and spirit. | |||
The first edit I made was the result of a discussion by two other editors who came to the conclusion that “the current version gives undue weight to the fringe opinion that Rawat is a cult leader.” I waited two weeks for any objection to their opinion and then I proposed making the appropriate change. When no one objected to the proposed edit I waited a further 24 hours and then made the edit. There were no objections or reverts. | |||
The second edit I made was on the talk page in response to a proposal by another editor (“Good suggestion. I'm happy with that”). The edit proposed was to remove a superfluous material, the majority of which was a quote from Prem Rawat. | |||
⚫ | There were no objections or reverts. | ||
The third edit involved removing excess opinion, both positive and negative, not necessary to express the crux of the matter which was that “Rawat's affluent lifestyle was a source of controversy in the early 1970s” which I retained. There were no objections or reverts. | |||
None of the edits I made, or the talk discussion that preceded them, show “Persistent Battleground Behavior," incivility or tendentious editing and the attached synopsis of the other edits made at the same time show that I was editing according to the best policies of Misplaced Pages. | |||
My criteria for every edit was to improve the accuracy and readability of the article. I am a writer by profession and knowledgeable on the subject of Prem Rawat. I have removed both positive and negative material that bloated the article without adding value. | |||
At the time of the editing Prem Rawat was being watched by 446 editors and seventeen editors edited the article in the preceding month and none of them objected to my edits. | |||
Arthur was swept up in the prior case for fairly minor sins, and the "time served" argument which is ''rarely'' pertinent actually does apply here as he has "noted" - especially where a result occurs which makes no reasonable sense to any outside observer. ] (]) 15:12, 25 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by uninvolved |
=== Statement by uninvolved editor === | ||
The Committee based its findings of edit-warring on the following 4 diffs: | |||
* | |||
* | |||
⚫ | |||
* | |||
Yep, that's right. Four reverts over the course of 5 months. Had this occurred in a 24 hour period, then sure, yes, this would be edit-warring and would warrant a 24 hour block. But it didn't happen over 24 hours. This is 5 months of editing. We don't topic ban for 4 reverts over 24 hours nor should we topic ban for 4 reverts over 5 months. If we topic-banned every editor who was at 4RR over a 5 month period, there would be scant editors to edit. | |||
Nevermind the fact that many editors consider ] to be a ''best practice''. | |||
Face it, the Committee f***ed up and f***ed up royally. Not only should this request be granted, the Committee should apologize for such a ridiculous, absurd ruling. ] (]) 23:59, 27 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by {other user} === | === Statement by {other user} === | ||
Line 59: | Line 49: | ||
=== Clerk notes === | === Clerk notes === | ||
: ''This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).'' | : ''This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).'' | ||
* 1-week 1RR means one revert per week, correct? - ] | <sup>] and ]</sup> 04:03, 7 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Arbitrator views and discussion === | === Arbitrator views and discussion === | ||
*Thinking about the request, but in the meantime I'll just say this is the first time I've seen an edit-war described in sonata form notation. ] (]) 23:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
* Unless I'm missing something, this does not seem to be such a good idea. Just to clarify ... the request is about restoring access to someone who has been topic-banned for edit-editing so that they may return to edit-war. No? ] <sup>]</sup> 08:30, 27 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:* @{{u|Arthur Rubin}} I was just taking at face value what you'd written: "I'm willing to abide by a 1RR per area of an article if it helps your decision, but I would prefer not to be bound by that in an active discussion". Can you clarify what this means please? ] <sup>]</sup> 08:12, 28 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:* @{{u|Arthur Rubin}} Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the ] as from you've just said you probably won't be sticking to ] at all, ] <sup>]</sup> 10:14, 29 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
*I'd be willing to downgrade Arthur's sanction to an indefinite 1-rr coupled with the standard one-year keep-your-nose-clean topic ban suspension. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> ''']'''</span> ] 11:32, 27 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
*Although I sympathise with Arthur Rubin's frustration that the Tea Party movement articles require further work, I think an insufficient amount of time has passed since the original case for it to be in the interests of the project to reduce or remove the sanctions adopted a year ago. I would therefore '''decline''' this request, with absolutely no prejudice to considering it again in the future. ] ]] 23:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
*I'd be willing to consider 1RR, but it would be a ''standard'' 1RR, that is, one revert per article per (day|week). I would not be willing to consider a complex system depending on exactly where in the article a revert occurred. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 00:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
*I'd potentially support a 1 week duration 1RR, but I'd like to read over the past evidence a bit more. '']'' <sup>]</sup> 08:05, 6 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
*I would support a 1-week 1RR or similar. ] <small>]</small> 21:58, 6 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
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Appeal request: Prem Rawat
Initiated by — MOMENTO (talk) 09:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
Discretionary sanction
- List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
- Momento(initiator)
- Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request
N/A
- Information about amendment request
- Prem Rawat ]
- I am requesting removal of the topic ban.
Statement by Momento
On Nov 15th, 2012 I was indefinitely Topic Ban from all Prem Rawat articles for “Persistent Battleground Behaviour” by The Blade of the Northern Lights. TBOTNL gave no warning to me nor did he provide any diffs to support his claim I was engaging in “Persistent Battleground Behaviour”. Fifteen months later when I appealed my ban at WP:AE he provided three diffs to justify continuing my ban with the disclaimer “I'm not giving my own point of view on the truth or validity of any additions or removals”. I believe the three edits TBOTNL provided are fair, correct and in accordance to all Wiki policies and spirit. The first edit I made was the result of a discussion by two other editors who came to the conclusion that “the current version gives undue weight to the fringe opinion that Rawat is a cult leader.” I waited two weeks for any objection to their opinion and then I proposed making the appropriate change. When no one objected to the proposed edit I waited a further 24 hours and then made the edit. There were no objections or reverts. The second edit I made was on the talk page in response to a proposal by another editor (“Good suggestion. I'm happy with that”). The edit proposed was to remove a superfluous material, the majority of which was a quote from Prem Rawat. There were no objections or reverts. The third edit involved removing excess opinion, both positive and negative, not necessary to express the crux of the matter which was that “Rawat's affluent lifestyle was a source of controversy in the early 1970s” which I retained. There were no objections or reverts. None of the edits I made, or the talk discussion that preceded them, show “Persistent Battleground Behavior," incivility or tendentious editing and the attached synopsis of the other edits made at the same time show that I was editing according to the best policies of Misplaced Pages. My criteria for every edit was to improve the accuracy and readability of the article. I am a writer by profession and knowledgeable on the subject of Prem Rawat. I have removed both positive and negative material that bloated the article without adding value. At the time of the editing Prem Rawat was being watched by 446 editors and seventeen editors edited the article in the preceding month and none of them objected to my edits.
Statement by uninvolved editor
Statement by {other user}
{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}
Statement by {yet another user}
Clerk notes
- This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).