Misplaced Pages

:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Arbitration | Requests Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 12:33, 7 August 2014 editSphilbrick (talk | contribs)Administrators178,668 edits Amendment request: Infoboxes: archiving closed amendment request← Previous edit Revision as of 09:38, 15 August 2014 edit undoMomento (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,864 edits Amendment request: Tea Party movement: ~~~~Next edit →
Line 3: Line 3:
<noinclude>{{-}}</noinclude>{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment/Header}} <noinclude>{{-}}</noinclude>{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment/Header}}


== Amendment request: Tea Party movement== == Appeal request: Prem Rawat==


'''Initiated by ''' — ] ] '''at''' 23:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC) '''Initiated by ''' — ] (]) 09:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
; Case affected : {{RFARlinks|Tea Party movement}} ; Case affected : {{RFARlinks|Prem Rawat}}


; Clauses to which an amendment is requested ; Clauses to which an amendment is requested
Discretionary sanction

# Remedy 8.1


; List of users affected by or involved in this amendment ; List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
* {{admin|Arthur Rubin}} (initiator) * Momento(initiator)


; Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request ; Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request
Line 20: Line 19:
; Information about amendment request ; Information about amendment request


*Prem Rawat ]
* ]
* I am requesting removal of the topic ban. * I am requesting removal of the topic ban.


=== Statement by your Arthur Rubin=== === Statement by Momento===
It has been 7 months since my last reported violation of the topic ban, although may be a technical violation, which is part of the reason for my request. Per a previous clarification, I'm allowed to revert banned editors at TPm pages, but I'm not allowed to talk about it. I was going to make an arguably gnomish edit on ] (combining 3 references which all support the same statement into one), and, today, I discovered a MonkBot error on ] which I technically cannot fix without violating the topic ban. I'm willing to abide by a 1RR per area of an article if it helps your decision, but I would prefer not to be bound by that in an active discussion. If I'm the second and fourth in A → B → A'b → B → B'A', I have made 2 reverts, but I'm actively working on the article. — ] ] 23:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
:@{{u|Roger Davies}}. I don't see how you could reach that conclusion. I admit that I consider the IP's edit on ], restored by a real editor, absurd. But I wasn't planning to actually revert it. Consolidating 3 references (including the one added by the banned IP) into one isn't reverting the addition. And I was planning to revert a bot on ]. My further discussion on a potential edit war was hypothetical, but in that particular configuration, I would be trying to improve the article, while the opponent would be attempting to revert to the present state. However, I would agree to a 1RR limitation if the committee feels it necessary. — ] ] 06:38, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
:OK, I didn't mean to imply that I would be edit warring; I would prefer to be able to try variations, which would technically be "reverts", as it would probably be changing the wording (which I don't like, or find objectionable, or in violation of Misplaced Pages policies (but not BLP)) to something more like what was there previously, but it would ''never'' be exactly a revert. I'm willing to abide by 1RR per section or 0*RR (never revert ''reversions'' of my edits; 0RR is problematic, because of the expansive definition of "revert") if you feel it necessary. — ] ] 10:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
:In regard possible changing the topic ban to 1RR; obviously I cannot dictate the form of the remedy, but I do think the 1RR/area/week allows more legitimate editing than 1RR/article/day. Even a restriction from article-space would allow me to ''suggest'' or ''discuss'' edits which have made some articles absurd, but not a policy violation. — ] ] 04:33, 2 August 2014 (UTC)


On Nov 15th, 2012 I was indefinitely Topic Ban from all Prem Rawat articles for “Persistent Battleground Behaviour” by The Blade of the Northern Lights.
===Statement by Collect===
TBOTNL gave no warning to me nor did he provide any diffs to support his claim I was engaging in “Persistent Battleground Behaviour”.
Fifteen months later when I appealed my ban at WP:AE he provided three diffs to justify continuing my ban with the disclaimer “I'm not giving my own point of view on the truth or validity of any additions or removals”.
I believe the three edits TBOTNL provided are fair, correct and in accordance to all Wiki policies and spirit.
The first edit I made was the result of a discussion by two other editors who came to the conclusion that “the current version gives undue weight to the fringe opinion that Rawat is a cult leader.” I waited two weeks for any objection to their opinion and then I proposed making the appropriate change. When no one objected to the proposed edit I waited a further 24 hours and then made the edit. There were no objections or reverts.
The second edit I made was on the talk page in response to a proposal by another editor (“Good suggestion. I'm happy with that”). The edit proposed was to remove a superfluous material, the majority of which was a quote from Prem Rawat.
There were no objections or reverts.
The third edit involved removing excess opinion, both positive and negative, not necessary to express the crux of the matter which was that “Rawat's affluent lifestyle was a source of controversy in the early 1970s” which I retained. There were no objections or reverts.
None of the edits I made, or the talk discussion that preceded them, show “Persistent Battleground Behavior," incivility or tendentious editing and the attached synopsis of the other edits made at the same time show that I was editing according to the best policies of Misplaced Pages.
My criteria for every edit was to improve the accuracy and readability of the article. I am a writer by profession and knowledgeable on the subject of Prem Rawat. I have removed both positive and negative material that bloated the article without adding value.
At the time of the editing Prem Rawat was being watched by 446 editors and seventeen editors edited the article in the preceding month and none of them objected to my edits.


Arthur was swept up in the prior case for fairly minor sins, and the "time served" argument which is ''rarely'' pertinent actually does apply here as he has "noted" - especially where a result occurs which makes no reasonable sense to any outside observer. ] (]) 15:12, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


=== Statement by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge === === Statement by uninvolved editor ===


The Committee based its findings of edit-warring on the following 4 diffs:

*

*

*

*

Yep, that's right. Four reverts over the course of 5 months. Had this occurred in a 24 hour period, then sure, yes, this would be edit-warring and would warrant a 24 hour block. But it didn't happen over 24 hours. This is 5 months of editing. We don't topic ban for 4 reverts over 24 hours nor should we topic ban for 4 reverts over 5 months. If we topic-banned every editor who was at 4RR over a 5 month period, there would be scant editors to edit.

Nevermind the fact that many editors consider ] to be a ''best practice''.

Face it, the Committee f***ed up and f***ed up royally. Not only should this request be granted, the Committee should apologize for such a ridiculous, absurd ruling. ] (]) 23:59, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


=== Statement by {other user} === === Statement by {other user} ===
Line 59: Line 49:
=== Clerk notes === === Clerk notes ===
: ''This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).'' : ''This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''

* 1-week 1RR means one revert per week, correct? - ] &#124; <sup>] and ]</sup> 04:03, 7 August 2014 (UTC)


=== Arbitrator views and discussion === === Arbitrator views and discussion ===
*Thinking about the request, but in the meantime I'll just say this is the first time I've seen an edit-war described in sonata form notation. ] (]) 23:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
* Unless I'm missing something, this does not seem to be such a good idea. Just to clarify ... the request is about restoring access to someone who has been topic-banned for edit-editing so that they may return to edit-war. No? &nbsp;] <sup>]</sup> 08:30, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
:* @{{u|Arthur Rubin}} I was just taking at face value what you'd written: "I'm willing to abide by a 1RR per area of an article if it helps your decision, but I would prefer not to be bound by that in an active discussion". Can you clarify what this means please? &nbsp;] <sup>]</sup> 08:12, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
:* @{{u|Arthur Rubin}} Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the ] as from you've just said you probably won't be sticking to ] at all, &nbsp;] <sup>]</sup> 10:14, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
*I'd be willing to downgrade Arthur's sanction to an indefinite 1-rr coupled with the standard one-year keep-your-nose-clean topic ban suspension. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> ''']'''</span> ] 11:32, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
*Although I sympathise with Arthur Rubin's frustration that the Tea Party movement articles require further work, I think an insufficient amount of time has passed since the original case for it to be in the interests of the project to reduce or remove the sanctions adopted a year ago. I would therefore '''decline''' this request, with absolutely no prejudice to considering it again in the future. ] ]] 23:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
*I'd be willing to consider 1RR, but it would be a ''standard'' 1RR, that is, one revert per article per (day|week). I would not be willing to consider a complex system depending on exactly where in the article a revert occurred. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 00:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
*I'd potentially support a 1 week duration 1RR, but I'd like to read over the past evidence a bit more. '']'' <sup>]</sup> 08:05, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
*I would support a 1-week 1RR or similar. ] <small>]</small> 21:58, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
----

Revision as of 09:38, 15 August 2014

Shortcut Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
Recently closed cases (Past cases)

No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).

Clarification and Amendment requests
Request name Motions  Case Posted
Appeal request: Prem Rawat none (orig. case) 15 August 2014
Arbitrator motions
Motion name Date posted
Arbitrator workflow motions 10 January 2025

Requests for clarification and amendment

Use this page to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

  • Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
  • Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).

Submitting a request: (you must use this format!)

  1. Choose one of the following options and open the page in a new tab or window:
  2. Save your request and check that it looks how you think it should and says what you intended.
  3. If your request will affect or involve other users (including any users you have named as parties), you must notify these editors of your submission; you can use {{subst:Arbitration CA notice|SECTIONTITLE}} to do this.
  4. Add the diffs of the talk page notifications under the applicable header of the request.
Clarification and Amendment archives
123456789101112131415161718
192021222324252627282930313233343536
373839404142434445464748495051525354
555657585960616263646566676869707172
737475767778798081828384858687888990
919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108
109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126
127128129130131

Please do not submit your request until it is ready for consideration; this is not a space for drafts, and incremental additions to a submission are disruptive.

Guidance on participation and word limits

Unlike many venues on Misplaced Pages, ArbCom imposes word limits. Please observe the below notes on complying with word limits.

  • Motivation. Word limits are imposed to promote clarity and focus on the issues at hand and to ensure that arbitrators are able to fully take in submissions. Arbitrators must read a large volume of information across many matters in the course of their service on the Committee, so submissions that exceed word limits may be disregarded. For the sake of fairness and to discourage gamesmanship (i.e., to disincentivize "asking forgiveness rather than permission"), word limits are actively enforced.
  • In general. Most submissions to the Arbitration Committee (including statements in arbitration case requests and ARCAs and evidence submissions in arbitration cases) are limited to 500 words, plus 50 diffs. During the evidence phase of an accepted case, named parties are granted an automatic extension to 1000 words plus 100 diffs.
  • Sectioned discussion. To facilitate review by arbitrators, you should edit only in your own section. Address your submission to arbitrators, not to other participants. If you wish to rebut, clarify, or otherwise refer to another submission for the benefit of arbitrators, you may do so within your own section. (More information.)
  • Requesting an extension. You may request a word limit extension in your submission itself (using the {{@ArbComClerks}} template) or by emailing clerks-l@lists.wikimedia.org. In your request, you should briefly (in 1–2 sentences) include (a) why you need additional words and (b) a broad outline of what you hope to discuss in your extended submission. The Committee endeavors to act upon extension requests promptly and aims to offer flexibility where warranted.
    • Members of the Committee may also grant extensions when they ask direct questions to facilitate answers to those questions.
  • Refactoring statements. You should write carefully and concisely from the start. It is impermissible to rewrite a statement to shorten it after a significant amount of time has passed or after anyone has responded to it (see Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines § Editing own comments), so it is often advisable to submit a brief initial statement to leave room to respond to other users if the need arises.
  • Sign submissions. In order for arbitrators and other participants to understand the order of submissions, sign your submission and each addition (using ~~~~).
  • Word limit violations. Submissions that exceed the word limit will generally be "hatted" (collapsed), and arbitrators may opt not to consider them.
  • Counting words. Words are counted on the rendered text (not wikitext) of the statement (i.e., the number of words that you would see by copy-pasting the page section containing your statement into a text editor or word count tool). This internal gadget may also be helpful.
  • Sanctions. Please note that members and clerks of the Committee may impose appropriate sanctions when necessary to promote the effective functioning of the arbitration process.

General guidance

Shortcuts:
Clarification and Amendment archives
123456789101112131415161718
192021222324252627282930313233343536
373839404142434445464748495051525354
555657585960616263646566676869707172
737475767778798081828384858687888990
919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108
109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126
127128129130131

Appeal request: Prem Rawat

Initiated by MOMENTO (talk) 09:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Case affected
Prem Rawat arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested

Discretionary sanction

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
  • Momento(initiator)
Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

N/A

Information about amendment request
  • Prem Rawat ]
  • I am requesting removal of the topic ban.

Statement by Momento

On Nov 15th, 2012 I was indefinitely Topic Ban from all Prem Rawat articles for “Persistent Battleground Behaviour” by The Blade of the Northern Lights. TBOTNL gave no warning to me nor did he provide any diffs to support his claim I was engaging in “Persistent Battleground Behaviour”. Fifteen months later when I appealed my ban at WP:AE he provided three diffs to justify continuing my ban with the disclaimer “I'm not giving my own point of view on the truth or validity of any additions or removals”. I believe the three edits TBOTNL provided are fair, correct and in accordance to all Wiki policies and spirit. The first edit I made was the result of a discussion by two other editors who came to the conclusion that “the current version gives undue weight to the fringe opinion that Rawat is a cult leader.” I waited two weeks for any objection to their opinion and then I proposed making the appropriate change. When no one objected to the proposed edit I waited a further 24 hours and then made the edit. There were no objections or reverts. The second edit I made was on the talk page in response to a proposal by another editor (“Good suggestion. I'm happy with that”). The edit proposed was to remove a superfluous material, the majority of which was a quote from Prem Rawat. There were no objections or reverts. The third edit involved removing excess opinion, both positive and negative, not necessary to express the crux of the matter which was that “Rawat's affluent lifestyle was a source of controversy in the early 1970s” which I retained. There were no objections or reverts. None of the edits I made, or the talk discussion that preceded them, show “Persistent Battleground Behavior," incivility or tendentious editing and the attached synopsis of the other edits made at the same time show that I was editing according to the best policies of Misplaced Pages. My criteria for every edit was to improve the accuracy and readability of the article. I am a writer by profession and knowledgeable on the subject of Prem Rawat. I have removed both positive and negative material that bloated the article without adding value. At the time of the editing Prem Rawat was being watched by 446 editors and seventeen editors edited the article in the preceding month and none of them objected to my edits.


Statement by uninvolved editor

Statement by {other user}

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Statement by {yet another user}

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).


Arbitrator views and discussion