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Cardinal Newman High School

Dear Netscott, How pleasant to have a private (relatively) tête-à-tête (metaphorically) away from the discussion page. I fear it would be improper until after the discussion is closed. I do believe (and this is merely to spell out the implication of my arguments on the project page), that it is a matter of the merits of this here school, not of High Schools in general. That seems to me to be the line of argument you are advancing in favour of Keep. So far, only TruthbringerToronto has advanced the superficially attractive but finally treacherous argument from principle - all high schools are notable (s/he says) therefore we must preserve the article on this High School. May the best arguments succeed. I would value your comments on my subpage. Note Benenden School, 480 pupils but still notable. I don't think size matters. --Stroika 18:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments on my subpage. If those schools are not notable then CNHS is definitely not noteable. (to 'e' or not to 'e'? both spellings look wrong to me). As for my comments (not on every keep vote!) - I do not want anyone thinking unanswered arguments are unanswerable arguments. --Stroika 19:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Your mention of Oxford, Cambridge and Berkeley suggest that we might be at cross purposes. Eton College and Winchester College are secondary *schools*, for 13-18 year olds. They are not universities. I know that Americans use the words "school" (as distinct from High/Middle/Elementary School etc) and "College" for institutions of higher education (Universities included). Perhaps my carelessness misled you? On other matters: Perish the thought that something is not notable simply because I (or you) have not heard of it.--Stroika 20:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Comments on my debating style on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cardinal Newman High School are all well taken. Some of what I say is waspish but I always play the ball not the man. It is a pity if anyone is offended but as I remarked to Netscott elsewhere I don't want anyone thinking unanswered arguments are unanswerable. (Apart from anything else I regard it as a courtesy to my opponents.) I had understood the process of consensus meant the admin closing an AfD had to weigh the arguments used. In my view the easiest way of doing that is if some indication of the weakness of each argument is given as it comes up. Hence I have restrained myself (I hope) from from having a pop at those who say "Keep per X". And as that becomes more frequent I am less likely to comment. I have been rather surprised that apart from Netscott nobody has started picking holes in the arguments any of the "Delete" editors are making. There is at least one embarassing hole in my own position (and no I won't tell you where). My most recent edit was only 24 hours (exactly) after the thing started, so it hadn't dawned on me that I might have been mistaken about the way consensus is determined. It's been a while since I contributed to one of these things but I remember an approach like this being taken on the Bobblebot debate (computer assisted human editor rapidly delinking dates, he got hammered and gets blocked periodically). This has been sent to Capitalistroadster, Alkivar, Kuzaar & Netscott. Love, peace and hair-grease --Stroika 21:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Prosecutions by Prophet Muhammad

Salaam, I was thinking that if an article can be created which would discuss all the reasons why Prophet Muhammad prosecuted these people. What I have understood so far, I wrote on Banu Nadir/mpov under Muslims explanation for prosectuion. It is very important because the battles and People killed by Prophet Muhammad is a very important part of Islamic history. And then a link to this article can be given on every page which would discuss such killings. This proposal can also be posted on Muslim Guild project. The work has to be top class because the way he is being portrayed, that doesn't make a good sketch of prophet Muhammad's personality in one's mind. SaadSaleem 07:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Prosecutions under early Islamic governments SaadSaleem 00:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

His Excellency

Sorry, I probably could have been more thourough there. As far as I can see, pretty much all of His Excellency's communications with that admin have been making incivil accusations, and the finality of the warning simply has to do with the fact that he's been warned about this repeatedly in the past. --InShaneee 17:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Dhimmi

A counterquestion: what's specifically right with his edit? Pecher 21:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it's up to the editor to provide evidence that the material inserted is relevant and supported by sources. This has nothing to do with assuming good faith. Pecher 21:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Again, why does what Aminz has inserted belong to the article? Pecher 21:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Netscott, the verse Pecher quoted (in Jizya section) comes along with the verses I quoted in the Lewis's book. For some reasons, only that verse was quoted here.--Aminz

Some diffs from other articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Najis&diff=52372278&oldid=52283450

Also, Pecher has not explained yet what I need to learn according to his comment. If you can ask him to let me know what I should learn about my religon, that would be great.

Also this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Rules_of_war_in_Islam&diff=53199313&oldid=53198530

I was involved in this discussion, but this comment is not directed to me.

I'll provide more diffs. --Aminz 21:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Dhimmi

Netscott, Lewis says:

For Christians and Muslims alike, tolerance is a new virtue, intolerance a new crime. For the greater part of the history of both communities, tolerance was not valued nor was intolerance condemned. Until comparatively modern times, Christian Europe neither prized nor practiced tolerance itself, and was not greatly offended by its absence in others. The charge that was always brought against Islam was not that its doctrines were imposed by force- something seen as normal and natural- but that its doctrines were false.

He also says:

Under Muslim rule such a status was for long accepted with resignation by the Christians and with gratitude by the Jews. It ceased to be accepted when the rising power of the Christendom on the one hand and the radical ideas of the French revolution on the other caused a wave of discontent among the Christian subjects of the Muslim states, an unwillingness to submit to the humiliations or even to threat or possibility of humiliation, which existed in the old older….."

The article hides the fact that our moral standards has changed over time. It tries to make people judge the historical facts through modern eyes (rather than in their historical contexts). By doing so, the articles produces a negative picture of the history of Dhimmi's. But that's not what Lewis is doing. That's what polemics do (again according to lewis himself)--Aminz 22:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Netscott, unfortunately there is no much sources available on the internet. So, I had to get Lewis's book from the library. Netscott, I also have limited time. Studying Dhimmi is not my major. I however would like to be productive. Lewis's book is very rich. I like it. I expect the article should at least quote Lewis's work fairly. --Aminz 23:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

moving from the incident for discussion.

The latter case appears to be true, but I do not know if he created them all. I do know that there are some strange copyright/trademark things going on, several anonymous users that appear from nowhere, etc. The incident has been recorded. This really needs, maybe to go to several admins to look into, I think. I wish I could say more, but I don't have a good grip on the wiki-vocabulary yet for such things. Ste4k 13:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, just a late thought, I have suspended my own actions regarding this area. Ste4k 13:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Your WP:ANI report

No matter what in this case your commentary was improperly edited. That is bad. For now just let admins review your report and come to a determination as to the best course of action. Thanks. Netscott 13:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused. Do you mean what I said in on the ANI page was wrong? which commentary on what page? Ste4k 13:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It would be courteous if you could advise the new user where he went wrong. --Nearly Headless Nick 13:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

starting over again

Hello Netscott, I think I understand what you mean now. And sorry about a confusion. When you replied in that admin page, I thought that you were an admin. And is it correct that what you meant to say was that the person who edited my commentary in the AfD was editing improperly? I thought you were saying that what I had edited in the Admin page was improper. So, please accept my apologies for misunderstanding you there. okay? :) Thanks Ste4k 14:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

My apologies too (in case I hurt a very valuable editor of the encyclopedia). --Nearly Headless Nick 14:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

What is your opinion of this article section Netscott? I performed the research on the citations and edited them with dates, etc. If this book is truly notable, I think it would be fine to have an article about it, but that article must be factual and not based on propaganda. The spread of the other articles attached are all connected like a web and none of them have any real basis. It was my opinion that submitting them for deletion was the correct thing to do. The central article itself, on the other hand, is debatable. What does NOT need to happen, in my opinion, is another debate. What DOES need to happen though, is gathering of reliable resources, and quoting from them to make the article itself encyclopedic. Would you agree? Link to article Ste4k 14:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages: The Nerd front in the War On Terror

Well, here's some more polemic goodness.

Misplaced Pages has been turned into a soap box for anti-Islamic propaganda and hate speech. Bat Ye'or's insane rhetoric is being framed as fact here for God's sake.You already know what's going on here. By definition, a polemic is someone who incites a dispute. There NEEDS to be a dispute here. You're fine with Aisha being represented as a whore in her article, I'm not. You're fine with Muhammad being portrayed as an extravagant genocidal psychopath, I'm not. Yes, I am in fact 'hateful' of the bigotry that's flooded into this thing. I don't go about editing articles on Judaism, taking content out of Mein Khamph as if it's fact. That's what your friends do here. You're not of Muslim heritage, none of this means anything to you. People like Daniel Pipes has been open in saying the enfranchisement of Muslims in the US is a threat to Jewish interests. The lobbying groups backing him up have people like Bat Ye'or addressing congress. On the media front, everything on Muslims that US citizens are exposed to pushes the negative image. If you've ever lived outside the US, you'd know the difference. Enter a word on google or Yahoo, its Misplaced Pages entry is the first thing to appear in the list. And the first item which, given the popularity of Misplaced Pages, most people would probably click on, would present them with the most vilifying and negative POV-driven image of what Islam and Muslims are about. People get saturated with this view of Muslims, and they become less sympathetic when a needless process of war kills over 100,000 brown arab 'towel heads'. Guantanamos and Abu Ghraibs don't really bother them much anymore; given what they've heard about those A-rabs, they probably got what's coming to them.There's a reason why many European countries cut off freedom of speech when it serves the purpose of defamation.

So don't lecture me one way or the other. His Excellency... 17:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Assuming good faith on the part of some people is a foolish task. I don't assume good faith when there's reason and evidence to believe otherwise. WP:AGF doesn't oblige me to. I've made no assumptions about your 'faith', so quit complaining. Congratulations on living with a north-Moroccan for two years. Your thank-you-for-living-with-us gift is in the mail. There are people outside of the Misplaced Pages network who are noticing the flood of bigotry being dumped here. It's not just something that I see, that nobody else does. His Excellency... 18:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

His Excellency has been blocked for his attacks, especially this one. Just an FYI. --Woohookitty 03:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

re: Reichstag

It's brilliant, isn't it? Maybe you're right about the catting, I just love dry humor... you know, where things are done with a straight face, as if it's really entirely serious. But, well, it is a logical extension of WP:POINT, so I guess perhaps it really is policy... Snoutwood (talk) 01:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

How about no cat, but with the normal policy template? Basically, I'm of the opinion that it's obvious it's kidding, we don't need to spell it out at all. We can say that it's our highest tenant, completely seriously, and it'll just make it funnier; no one'll take it seriously. Snoutwood (talk) 01:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

To put it differently, having the cat and the template won't make anybody think it's serious, it'll just make them laugh. Snoutwood (talk) 01:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

O.K., great. I'll have to live catless for now. I'll probably be blocked and desysopped for breaking the 3RR soon anyway. Snoutwood (talk) 01:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It will have been WORTH IT. Best... desysopping... ever. Snoutwood (talk) 01:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

MUAHAHAHAHA! Snoutwood (talk) 01:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

This has to be the strangest thing to go rogue over in the history of Misplaced Pages. Snoutwood (talk) 01:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

3RR, here we come! Mr. Treason (talk) 01:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I am this close to protecting it and getting my ass chucked out of here. Nice shortcut, by the way. :) Snoutwood (talk) 01:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah! Snoutwood (talk) 01:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Snoutwood (talk) 02:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Ste4k's deletion attempts

Regarding my editing of Ste4k's deletion proposals, I wanted to clarify something.

I can honestly state that I did not consider, nor did I know, that editing those few words that I did (all I did was interject the words "Ste4k believes that") constituted editing another editor's comments. The reason I didn't know this is because his/her comments on those pages were largely verbatim trascriptions of Misplaced Pages policy. And because the transcriptions were so long, I had not noticed that he/she had signed the comments at the end. I sincerely thought that all he/she had done was copy and paste Misplaced Pages policy.

I also felt that he/she had incorrectly copied Misplaced Pages policy, because in his/her deletion nomination it was stated "this article meets Misplaced Pages qualifications for deletion". But in fact, that is not something that the nominating editor decides. That is something decided by the other editors who vote on the page.

In other words, in my view, all I was doing was attempting to correct what I perceived as an impersonal (as opposed to "the personal comments of") and erroneous transcription of Misplaced Pages policy. I didn't know that those were considered the personal comments of another editor.

I have been in something of an edit war with this person for some time now, and in all honesty I can say that this editor seems to be a bit on the paranoid side. He/she has repeatedly said that the only reason I have any interest in these articles is because I make money off of them, which is a completely false accusation for which he/she has no supporting evidence. And when I have responded to his/her comments, I have continually been told that I am "harassing" him/her, when in fact all I was doing was responding. This person seems to me to be a bit on the paranoid side and to also think that he/she establishes Misplaced Pages guidelines on his/her own. He/she has a history of nominating articles for deletion merely on the grounds of content disputes. -- Andrew Parodi 02:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

AGF please

You know I'm not a vandal, Scott. I'd never assume you'd do something like that deliberately, and I don't know why you assume I would. — JEREMY 05:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You should AGF because I have demonstrated sufficient understanding of wikipedia to know that indulging in such absurdly pointless editing will get me absolutely nowhere (ignoring the fact that I personally don't believe in deleting any comments from talk pages). We may be in conflict over content, but we're not in conflict over wikipedia: both of us work hard to improve it, and both of us understand and adhere to its formalisms and procedures. If you won't AGF, please at least assume I'm not a moron. — JEREMY 05:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure myself, but I think I did start the edit as a revert to your +cat, but somehow didn't notice MX44's comments when I checked the diffs (possibly because I selected the wrong top-point for the diff). I was then was disconnected from the LAN while editing, then completed my edit when I was reconnected some minutes later (I'd actually submitted the edit just as I was disconnected, so I did this by refreshing the page) — by which time your comment edit had gone through. Clumsy I admit, but not malicious. (Having looked at this further, I am now happier to accept that you couldn't see a good faith explanation that made sense...) — JEREMY 05:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Islamophobia

I didn't add any references, but atleast now the claims and allegations about Islamophobia is attributed to their source, which is something I believe is important in that context and in that section. Hopefully, I'll have time to continue this work later today. -- Karl Meier 05:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree and I currently plan to do just that to all the points that is included in that section. However, it seems that Raphael1 doesn't agree with what I've been doing most recently: User_talk:Dmcdevit#Article_ban -- Karl Meier 06:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Here comes the Spiderman!

(Misplaced Pages:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spiderman)

I have threatened to climb the Reichstag, dressed up as and did so, became bollocked from editing for violating Misplaced Pages policy against climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spiderman, and then had it become an official policy on Misplaced Pages (and to be an official decree by the Supreme Cabal Regime of the English Misplaced Pages (SCREW)). Is Absolutley fantasitic!. This is so great!

"In extreme cases editors may be tempted to climb the Reichstag building dressed as Spiderman in order to promote their cause. This is absolutely forbidden and can result in an indefinite block from editing Misplaced Pages."

This single event is a great example of all the good qualities of our beloved Misplaced Pages! Horay! Its like bloody Mensa at drinking hour in here! Steven Hawking is buying the next round!

Next stop: The Kremlin!

Thankyou!

Dfrg.msc 08:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

talk:JPC

Before you hit my talk page with a warning about technical violation of 3RR, I would point out that the two consecutive edits earlier constitute one. If you intend to dispute this, I am prepared to self-revert. — JEREMY 10:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. But unfortunately one can't go back and change edit comments, can one? — JEREMY 11:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting question (and yes, I know I still haven't found the time to have a detailed look at Islamophobia, other than to note the interesting structural differences between its WP:LEAD and Islamism's); I'd say "possibly". Is there a reaonably RS cite for the opinion? — JEREMY 12:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I ended up removing both my previous WP:POINT and WP:3RR warnings in good faith — Indeed, and I do appreciate that.

I'm just trying to understand person-to-person your view about why the cartoons shouldn't be presented like they are. Is it not about context? — It is about context, yes. I have consistently maintained that the images must remain on wikipedia (as I've said before, I freely admit I came to the article originally to locate the images). However, with that as an absolute given, I believe it is in the best interests of the project that we present the images in a sensitive fashion. Now, I realise people like Tim Usher are offended by the idea of being sensitive to people's peculiarities (no disrespect for Islamic aniconism and Muslim reverence for Muhammad intended, of course), but this project has NPOV at its very core, and even erring on the side of caution will bear fruit in the future. So long as it remains easy for people to find the images, where's the harm in us taking what is clearly mainstream Muslim feeling into account? It's not self-censorship, it's just being polite to (or allowing for the personal foibles of, if you prefer) one's neighbours and fellow editors.

Al Fagr put one on their headline page for F's sake. — In the context of "look what these insentitive idiots have published", they might have gotten away with it; but wasn't the Al Faqr reprint hugely controversial? — JEREMY

Al Fagr generated 0 controversy... not a freaking peep — Uhuh. I guess it's not read by many hotheads.

It's funny but despite your attention having been repeatedly called to Piss Christ there's not been word one out of you regarding it's displaying of this image. — How many people have died in rioting over Piss Christ? Do Christians perceive themselves to be a persecuted global minority? And is there an aniconistic tradition in Christianity I haven't heard of?

you want to attribute the sum total of over 200 editors voting yes for the cartoons' display on the article as motivated by a desire to show solidarity with Jyllands-Posten regarding freedom of speech. — I don't accept your premise. Clearly, based on their own commentary, a significant number of the editors working on the cartoons article are Free Speech activists. That is my only claim in that regard.

You know, I'm fully cognizant of what context means as I demonstrated some time ago. — Scott, I don't (often) doubt you're acting in good faith, nor that you're a smart guy. I just think you're wrong. — JEREMY 03:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Irishpunktom arbitration

Thanks for your note - yes, I do seem to have accidentally disturbed a hornet's nest which wasn't actually connected to this arbitration. I have made private representations about the current proposed decision and don't think the time is now right for kicking up a fuss. I don't know what the protocol is on third parties lobbying the ArbCom. David | Talk 22:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

As I read it you can comment, and possibly introduce motions, on the Workshop page. Most arbitrators also publicise their email addresses, and while they don't say that they invite email about ongoing cases, I guess that is what it's there for. However, the rumours that I have been spotted hiring a Spider-man outfit and arranging a flight to Berlin are untrue. We have a saying in the north of England, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar", which translates as "The best way to persuade people to like you is to be nice to them". David | Talk 23:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

fact

Just a bit. I could barely reload the page without there being 3 or 4 more keeps on. It was my first close, but I think it was a pretty obvious one that didn't really require an admin to do. I was concerned with what it would do to those thousands of pages and how it would ruin what it would look like and confuse users of the page. --Crossmr 22:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully we can come up with a better way in the future for small templates. If everyone subst like they were supposed to, it would be a non-issue as the link would never show up. Though substing during a TfD would make a mess. --Crossmr 22:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

That's true. But this kind of thing could happen to larger templates you would regularly subst too. It would be too bad if there wasn't some way to subst the template in such a way that the notification of TfD only remained on the page as long as the TfD was active and was somehow removed automagically when the debate ended. --Crossmr 01:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Classy guy

Hey Joturner, I just wanted to drop you a note and let you know that the way you handle yourself on Misplaced Pages is top notch and that it was a true pity that your last RfA wasn't a success. May a future RfA see you to adminship. Cheers. Netscott 00:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. I really wasn't expecting that (which makes the compliment that much better). joturner 01:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Happy?

Images used :

• Man dressed up. From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38084000/jpg/_38084896_climbing_ap.jpg
• Reichstag From: http://www.culturageneral.net/arquitectura/jpg/reichstag.jpg

Merged (badly) Using ArcSoft PhotoStudio 5.5

K? Dfrg.msc 03:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Tagging of Articles by Maakhter

Please have a look at the following:

I have provided specific criticism for each and every article I tagged. In many articles wrong map is used. I cannot write an article about the use of incorrect maps. All I need to do is to tag and then raise the issue in the discussion.

Here is an example:

This article is biased and represents pro-Indian View.

For example “India says that over the last two years, a militant group, Lashkar-e-Toiba has split into two factions: Al Mansurin and Al Nasirin. Another new militant group reported to have emerged is the Save Kashmir Movement. Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (formerly known as Harkat-ul-Ansar) and Lashkar-e-Toiba are believed to be operating from Muzaffarabad, Azad Kashmir and Muridke, Pakistan respectively. Other less well known groups are the Freedom Force and Farzandan-e-Milat. A smaller militant group, Al Badr, has been active in Kashmir for many years and is still believed to be functioning.”

How much space are you going to provide to explain Pakistani point of view?

There is a huge list of anti-Pakistani films and books in this article as well.

Maakhter 03:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.

United Nations

Here is what the United Nations thinks about this dispute. People who want to contribute should use facts. This is not a space to express personal opinion.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unmogip/docs.html

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/bnote.htm

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/dpko/unmogip.pdf

Thanks.

Maakhter 03:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Repetition of Same Mistakes

Please also read following reply to ragib. I am also going to post it on my talk page.

Same mistakes are committed in all of the articles I have tagged. It is not necessary to repeat same arguments in each tagging.

I have also posted the above to you in your talk page.

Maakhter 05:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Map of Pakistan

I have seen the map of Pakistan at the following web-page of United Nations.

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/pakistan.pdf

The above web-page confirms my point of view. This map clearly shows line of control and does not show Azad (Independent) Kashmir (Pakistani controlled Kashmir) as a part of India.

Thanks

220.233.27.8 05:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:ReichstagClimb.jpg

Because of the copyvio notice - this image has to "be removed" from wherever it is used. I see you reverted my attempt to solve it the quickest way. The copyvio notice clearly states:

Do not resubmit the media that was here before. It will be removed. This media will be kept if Misplaced Pages or the poster is found to have copyright permission compliant with the license.

How do you think would be best to remove this image from all offending places? Ian¹³/t 10:38, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Replied here then. Ian¹³/t 10:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Replied on my talk now. Ian¹³/t 11:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors. See Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith for the guidelines on this. Ian¹³/t 15:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Fanatics?

For it to be a personal attack, I'd have had to attack a person. Instead, I have chosen to so characterise a subset of the editors of the article, but not to specify individuals. If you believe this is counter to a particular rule, please point me to it. — JEREMY 10:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jeremy there are only a few editors you could be referring to. — Yeah? Who? — JEREMY 10:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

No debate? Then please, open an RFA against me and let's see what they make of the situation. Otherwise, stop threatening me. (And here was I thinking we were getting along just fine. Sigh.) — JEREMY 11:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Tag does not equal Dispute

Tagging an image with Template:PUIdisputed is an alert that "This file has been listed on Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree images because the information on its source or copyright status is disputed." It is not akin to the type of dispute discussed at Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes.--A Y Arktos\ 23:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Boldness

I see you are in agreement but bolder than I am :-) - "by convention your user page will usually not be edited by others". The user has in the past objected; However, I have no objections - the issue had been raised with the user and there have been other attempts to fix similar issues: ... etc. --A Y Arktos\ 00:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• While you may be enjoying their humour, it does not fit within Misplaced Pages's charter: Misplaced Pages is not a free host, blog, webspace provider or social networking site. Their encyclopaedic contributions are few and far between. --A Y Arktos\ 01:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I supported your CfD nom :-)--A Y Arktos\ 02:00, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Esposito speech

I've just replaced the speech with a link to wikiquote, but I've made a mistake: I removed everything below the "references" section. Unfortunately I somehow can't fix it. Would you please restore Islamophobia again? Raphael1 01:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Raphael1 01:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Image

The source is here , --CltFn 16:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Islamophobia

First I want to say that I am sorry that I didn't repond to your first comment on my talkpage before now. I haven't had much wiki-time the last few days, and for some reason I didn't notice it... Anyway, my reply is that it is of course true that Ali Sina (and a lot of other critics of Islam) is "anti-Islam" or in other words against the ideas of that religion. However, I am concerned that making the claim that his writings represent an (anti-Muslim) "sentiment" is not the most neutral way possible to characterize his works. My problem and concern is about the word "sentiment", which I believe indicate that his position and opinions regarding Islam is based more on feelings rather than on logic and reason: . What I would prefer is that we create two new categories, Category:Critics of Islam and possibly Category:Prosecution of Muslims. The first one would have to be limited to actual critics of the Islamic religion in it's disclaimer, as I believe reasonable concerns has been expressed about who could be included in a category with such a title, and it will also have to be recreated through a undeletion process. The second one might very well turn out to be a POV magnet, and it's will have to be followed closely, but still I believe it might be worth the effort. Their titles would be more neutral than the current "sentiment" categories.

It is true that John Esposito has made the allegation that some specific comments by Pat Robertson has "incited Islamophobia". However we already mention that, and I can't see any reason why we should include other comments by Robertson that no-one notable has alleged is "Islamophobic". In other words, we already have a reference that mention Pat Robertson, so why should we ever want to include another one that is based on original research? -- Karl Meier 18:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Religion of Peace

Sure, I'll just leave his stuff for now, eventhough I see it as something that is just absurd. Now that you noticed this and made a comment on it, I trust that you'll make sure that things are presented in a reasonable way there. However, I am not going to spend my limited time discussing that kind of edits. -- Karl Meier 20:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Why in the world should I remove the message, and why in the world should I not feel free to remove it in the first place? Anyway, on second thought I might make a comment on this on the talkpage. I am just a bit tired of dealing with obvious nonsens. It's such a waste. -- Karl Meier 20:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Just made a short comment: . I hope you will join the discussion and offer a third view on this. -- Karl Meier 21:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate your efforts regarding this issue. -- Karl Meier 06:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for helping me with that anon. -- Karl Meier 18:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

No violation, so no problem. But thanks for mentioning this to me anyway . Another thing is that my new friend has just joined BhaiSaab on the Asma bint Marwan article, so now there is TWO editors reverting (and deleting half the article) in order to make their individual points about my editing in other articles... -- Karl Meier 19:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I hear what you are saying, and I know that you are right about it. I'll make a new rule for myself: Don't ever make a new revert of new content without a comment on the talkpage. -- Karl Meier 19:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Model of good behaviour?

Good morning. I really should be doing something useful, banking, shopping for food, .... However, I have created an image of a notable wikipedian demonstrating good behaviour - not encyclopaedic though :-) Images are not my forte, but perhaps good enough for the bush albeit less colourful than the alternatives, but actually done for my amusement and not particularly intended as anything more.--A Y Arktos\ 22:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• It is Winter here - we have just suffered the greatest number of coldest days in June since 1984 or some such apalling statistic. Some of us would love to be in Berlin climbing the Reichstag - unfortunately I am afraid of heights. A spider-man costume wouldn't suit me either. But inspite of all, I will come out and confess to be a "pro-climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spiderman editor". Australia and the Vietnam War is worthy but somewhat depressing at times.--A Y Arktos\ 22:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I wouldn't necessarily have changed my vote, but I feel it is important to acknowledge community concensus and move on. I note that there are efforts being made to address the spamming, including by both you and JzG, which was the basis for my initial objection to the page.--A Y Arktos\ 21:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • It was for Misplaced Pages's protection that I nominated the page for deletion. It seems I can't help myself - I had better move on though :-) --A Y Arktos\ 23:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
• You are way too kind --A Y Arktos\ 09:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• The roll back button is perhaps a bit harsh but easier - and my patience is wearing thin. You aren't an admin yet - would you like to be nominated? Although you weren't very active til February, I see you are doing plenty of useful things, very patiently. I suspect there would be plenty of support, though I see you have had a fair bit of controversy and edited in some contoversial areas.--A Y Arktos\ 10:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Asma bint Marwan

Well after learning that we shouldn't have long quotes , I found an article with a ridiculously long quote, i.e. Asma bint Marwan. I applied what I learned, but Karl appears to disagree with himself. BhaiSaab 19:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

BhaiSaab 21:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Those quotes are not (yet) on wikiquote. BhaiSaab 21:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. BhaiSaab 21:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Context?

I can't seem to open that link successfully (the page fails to render in either Firefox or IE) and the title "Flags retired with honor" isn't self-explanatory. Can you elucidate? Oh, and as for the "gotcha" link to the Commons' cache of Muhammad imagery, at least there's a good excuse for linking that from Muhammad; that's certainly not the case for the cartoon controversy article. — JEREMY 06:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Asma bint Marwan

What BhaiSaab wants to remove from the article is the only historical information that we have regarding this incident, and unlike the opinions of John Esposito on the "Islamophobia" article it is absolutely essential to include. It's not just a quote, it's the only information that we have, and in that situation it must be included. If we can summerize it somehow without loosing any important information, then of course I wouldn't mind that, but to remove it is just unacceptable. I noticed that Politicallyincorrectliberal has expressed similar concerns on the talkpage. -- Karl Meier 06:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)