Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:21, 16 September 2014

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150

Template:NoBracketBot

Saw you liked Winslow Homer

Some more to cheer you up. Hafspajen (talk) 16:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, Dr. Hafstadter: I need it. Drmies (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

• I'll have some rocket in my Russian salad please. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:29, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I have dream music, with an image chosen from a Hafspajen collection, my favourite line "Ich gehe nicht schnell" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Ha, ich auch nicht. Xanty, it's coming up. Did you write up Mr. Ego yet? Drmies (talk) 20:48, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Halfway through. I've got to the bit where the planes with banners are flying over the demonstrators. Time to sleep, perchance to dream. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 21:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

You know, Gerda, that picture you chose out of a giant collection ... a real good choice it was. I almost think .. feathured picture? Well, why not. Hafspajen (talk) 10:04, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, flattered ;) - I guess it should appear in more articles than one, no? My only experience with FP was not so good: my suggestion (top here) was not considered because of its photographer, - well, look at the links in the world ;) - with the help of a friend I managed even Hebrew, possible the single edit I am most proud of! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:50, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

dreaming in hope

If you follow the links you get to "Hope is precious and great joy is found in living", only a friend died. Am I enough of a reliable source to change his article? I added a bright image. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:59, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Hm, sombody went pointig out faults, so I am affraid .. it won't work. Hafspajen (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viriditas (talk • contribs) 04:50, 8 September 2014‎

Alert the cabal . . .

Economy. Drmies (talk) 00:16, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
. . . and I mean now! How ya holdin' up, Doc? matic 07:35, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Well, after reading, in an ANI thread about me, that "I did not bring here because he's an antisemite or because he's a Nazi", I think someone is telling me that I am. That's not a nice thing to hear. Hey, Bongo! Nice to see you again. What's been going on? I started a stub on an architect the other day, and it brought back all kinds of memories: one of the sources is a Dutch architectural website called ArchiNed, and when I searched that word to see if we had an article, or how to capitalize it, I saw a whole bunch of articles CoM and I wrote up in the good old days. So I'm a bit mixed up, I suppose. Well, I don't think we have a Department for Experimental Topo-charcuterie, but I'll give this a try. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 14:06, 8 September 2014 (UTC) I could tell you that in Melton Mowbray there's a butcher whose bacon is so good that even Polish babas praise it. But that would be spam. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 16:01, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Spam is made from shoulder meat. Bacon is from the belly.Two kinds of pork (talk) 16:11, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Spam, spam, glorious spam, nuffink' goes in it except chopped shoulder meat and ham mechanically recovered shoulder meat. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 16:23, 8 September 2014 (UTC) I had to stay up late last night since I managed to score a three-pound Boston butt at half price yesterday. That was eight long hours, checking on the slow cooker. Drmies (talk) 16:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC) My friend has been using a water circulator bath to slow cook his butt. They sell devices for $150 that turns any pot into a extremely low temperature slow cooker.Two kinds of pork (talk) 16:50, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Normally every single talk given on topological insulators includes the canonical picture of a orange and doughnut to illustrate topologically-distinct manifolds. Today we enter a glorious era, where we can illustrate this with bacon and ... more bacon. a13ean (talk) 17:52, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Sorry, but this is a talk page dedicated to the liberal arts. We don't do car parts here--that's the domain of Scalhotrod, who'll be glad to talk about manifolds until the sun goes down one final time. Drmies (talk) 17:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Is that petrol I smell? How can I be of service? :) BTW, I am also a devotee of the Big Green Egg and routinely apply the "low and slow" treatment to various cuts... --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:12, 8 September 2014 (UTC) I'm waiting for someone to bring on the bacon donuts. That Green Egg, I've heard a lot of good things about it, but I also read its price tag, so that's a no. (Liberal arts talk page, liberal arts paycheck.) Until Green Egg hires me to rewrite their article, of course--I suppose CorporateM has them in their Rolodex. Drmies (talk) 18:14, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Drmies, find your local or closest "EggFest", the annual gathering of Eggers and all things relatedly delicious. BGE usually sponsors these events and ships several pallets of Eggs to the venue which are then available for sale (usually pre-sale before the event and picked up at the end) as "demo/display units" at a deep discount. Shooosh, don't tell anyone else... :) Hmm... Bacon donuts, sounds promising. I wonder if you can just deep fry the whole thing or if there's precooking involved. It would make a nice bookend to my Atomic Buffalo T*rd jalapeno poppers paired with one of my homemade alcohol infusions. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:34, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Don't tell Kelapstick--he's already on a pretty serious Simvastatin regimen. That lady actually looks a lot like K-stick and sounds like him too. Drmies (talk) 19:11, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Hey Drmies, I saw the drahmah that has been inflicted upon you the last few days, and I want very much to offer you my sympathy and best wishes. It should never have happened to you. It's a pity that this kind of stuff crops up so often at this website. To quote the great philosopher Taylor Swift, shake it off. Anyway, I hope you are doing well. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC) No good deed goes unpunished, Tryptofish, and so you and some others there will probably suffer for your good deeds as well--really, I saw your comments and I appreciate it, as well as the note here. See, if they had left me a note saying hey, what about this? we could have had a conversation, but all this huffing and puffing, with a templated warning and some thinly veiled accusations--yeah, it's not good for the soul. Anyway, it's over for now, and I think common sense has prevailed on the talk page. The article has been moved back by some people who know what they're talking about, and some others came by and fixed syntax and language, so it's all good (I admit it's hard for me sometimes to write good English when I'm reading Dutch sources). And to be accused of having some right-wing agenda... I wrote Oud-Strijders Legioen the other day, inspired by this mess, and when those planes flew over I was down below, and have despised them and their right-wing ilk ever since. Sorry, I'm waxing prosaic. Thanks again. Drmies (talk) 23:29, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Good! I've been on the receiving end myself, with a lot of similarities to what you received. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:34, 8 September 2014 (UTC) Time to behave badly towards Drmies: the OSL did not have members as it was a foundation, not a society or association. So it were supporters. Prosper Ego was never really in action in the Dutch Indies as he was a pencil pusher. Unfortunately, I passed on my archives when I moved country. The Banner talk 00:05, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Banner, good point--guess I never thought about that. So please propose a different word (well, don't propose, just stick it in there and then I'll see you on ANI, haha)--but how else does on translate dat ze 14.000 leden hadden? As for the pencil-pushing, you'll note that I wrote "served"--I am well aware of his, you know, Rambo-ish lifestyle. So--you left twenty-plus jaargangen of Sta-Vast behind? What a loss! (And, Banner, thanks for moving that article back. It's good to not be alone.) Drmies (talk) 00:13, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Ehm, no. I did not leave does magazines behind. I handed over my archives to the anti-fascistic research group Kafka. Errrr, was happy enough that they did not ask question how some of the info was obtained. My grandfather was in the (non-military) resistance and I followed his lead, updated to the changed times. (A distant cousin earned the Military William Order at the Grebbeberg. He urges his men to stand firm and not retreat. He is still there.)The Banner talk 00:31, 9 September 2014 (UTC) The OSL presented itself as an association but were in fact three foundations. So the "members" could be supporters or just subscribers of the magazine. The Banner talk 00:38, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Haha. Maybe this is a good time to disclose to you that I was in the KZA and the MKA! Your archives, Xanthomelanoussprog and I could have used them for Hembrug (which is around the corner from where I grew up--in fact, you can sort of see my house in that aerial photograph). So--does "organization" need to be changed to "foundation"? Please correct the article. Drmies (talk) 00:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC) I've got a rough translation of the Ego article (offline)- just want to go through it again to make sure I've not done anything too egregious. The original Dutch article introduces Ego as an old soldier, but then fails to substantiate that. It claims that he was not involved in "police" actions but was doing journalism (??) DYK that the Japanese did joint military actions with the British in Indonesia at the end of WW2? And the last German campaign medal of WW2 was issued by permission of the British military, who made sure there wasn't a swastika on it. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 06:58, 9 September 2014 (UTC) As Banner said, he was a pencil pusher. I saw that in one of the sources, can't remember which one--it may have been the Kafka source. Now, I don't know if Banner was joking about having bequeathed his archives to Kafka (the Dutch have a weird sense of humor), but Kafka's POV is to be considered. That is, if they say he never saw action, I'm sure they'd find that amusing given the posturing of the OSL. Drmies (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC) I was active in a local chapter of the more radical AFA. Changed some thingies in the OSL article and added a source. The Banner talk 10:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Alert - Drmies can you translate this article? Briefschrijvende jongeman bij geopend venster. Crisco 1492 asked me how do I know that this painting has a pair, this one Brieflezende vrouw - well, my Dutch tells me the info is in this article. Hafspajen (talk) 10:36, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Sure thing Haf. Drmies (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC) The Ego has landed, trailing a banner which says "I'd rather have a rocket in the bedroom than a Yank in the lavatory". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 16:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Well done! Of course Randykitty, the original drive-by tagger, had to go and deface it... That photo, BTW, is priceless. I imagine him yelling at The Banner--Banner is sixteen, and they ran into each other at a 1 May manifestation in Beverwijk. Ego is trying to get into the supermarket to pick up some butter since Mrs. Ego is in the mood (for stewed eel! sheesh!), and there's Banner, with his little table selling his little buttons, and his little red book is sticking out of the pocket of his German Army jacket full of peace signs and "Kernenergie? Nee bedankt!" stickers. And Banner sees who he is dealing with: a middle-aged white man, representing all that he hates about his country (looks a lot like his father, probably). If he can sway this man, this one man, then the war is won, and we'll leave NATO, and there will be happiness and equality in South Africa, and Marxism will take over all of Asia and Nixon will simply wink and let them, and no teacher will ever write up another student for smoking pot during lunch hour, and everyone will realize that Yes's Fragile indeed holds the key to the universe...all that and more. But Ego will have none of it. Here's some long-haired boy who should be in school. He doesn't smell so good either, though there's an exotic aroma that reminds him of long ago, of 1949. And this boy (half a head taller than him, but still) starts talking about fairness and nuclear cruise missiles and some black people in an arid part of the world who apparently have rights too and he probably doesn't change shirts more often than once a week. And he looks at him and does not see himself, just a predator out to get his daughter, a leech sucking up his hard-earned money by way of a repressive tax system that taxes those like him, those who have worked so hard to make some more money than the neighbors. He probably spells everything in some weird new way either, with those hard k's and sloppy sj's. Probably studies sosjologie at the Pedagogiese Akademie, in Esperanto. And this child is telling him he's been wrong all his life, that he's a mass murderer like Jan Pietersz. Coen, that he is personally responsible for the death of little children in factories in Bangladesh because he shops at C&A? NO! And I'll tell you something else, you stinking little Communist rat, ... ! And that's when that photo was taken. Drmies (talk) 00:05, 10 September 2014 (UTC) That spy that you send after me is a rather dodgy guy. I left Beverwijk at age 14. The Banner talk 00:11, 10 September 2014 (UTC) (edit conflict)XANTYY!! Thanks... you would love the painting Crisco just nominated. A Dutch king. Good looking too... Is there any page with the exception of AIV - Vandalism, where one is running into so many edit conflicts, may I ask....? GOSH; XANTY, you really did translated it, gugh. Hafspajen (talk) 16:12, 9 September 2014 (UTC) gugh? I did notice that the Ego article claims that he got fined in 1995, but the OSL article says it was Mat Herben. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 16:25, 9 September 2014 (UTC) Hm, really? Hafspajen (talk) 17:12, 9 September 2014 (UTC) It was Ego who got fined, the actual writers were former DS'70 MP Hendrik Pors and P. Hermans . Herben joined the OSL much later. Dutch werkschuw, langharig tuig AKA Cattivi (talk) 10:42, 10 September 2014 (UTC) Thanks for that! Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 17:45, 10 September 2014 (UTC) Yeah, thanks Cattivi. DS70...ach, die goeie ouwe tijd. In its honor, I made the redirect Boer Koekoek. Drmies (talk) 23:55, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Bob Avakian

I've done some more clean up and added some secondary sources. I'll add more as time allows. Please have a look and modify as needed. Best, -- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:36, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

And then there is his right hand man, Carl Dix. Cullen Let's discuss it 19:39, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• Wow Keithbob, that's a pretty serious haircut! Drmies (talk) 00:14, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Please take a look at the article again, as was the issue prior turning to mediation, a single user constantly reverted ALL changes he or she doesn't approve of. (Sometimes I suspect in bad faith, for the user would revert really simply changes like the deletion of a bad link) -- xcuref1endx (talk) 12:49, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Oops!

Sorry about this: stupid fat fingers on an iPhone screen! – SchroCat (talk) 18:21, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• If you know my real name, then you'd see that your edit summary is quite hilarious. I'll give you a hint: M I SHIT. No worries! And I won't tell you to get an Android--friends don't do that to friends. Drmies (talk) 19:09, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• An android–perish the very thought! I hope your recent trip to ANI wasn't too hideous: never fun being there! Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 19:23, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

142.150.48.0/24

Hi Drmies, regarding this thread, you can use this tool to check contribs for any given range. Specifically, this is the range contribs analysis for 142.150.48.0/24 from January of this year to current. It does indeed look like it could be range blocked again from what I'm seeing. That analysis can help you hunt down edits you didn't know about and find socks.

I backtracked this and found the sock case so you know who you are dealing with now.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 21:46, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

I've went ahead and hardblocked this range for one year. Any named accounts caught behind that block need to be scrutinized as potential socks if they appeal the block.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 21:57, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• Hey Berean Hunter, I'm about to go track down all these particulars, but I already wanted to say thank you for your work. I really appreciate it, and I hope we can use this to stem that tide of useless edits. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 23:14, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Razor Tag

Can you help me expand Razor Tag please? Obviously, it needs more expansion and verification with plenty of resources. I'll be glad to also help you out in any way I can, if you ever need me for anything (just simply leave a message on my talk page, but be respectful and polite when you do so). Thanks. Skylar3214 3:54, 8 September 2014

CSD advice

Having looked closely at the wording, I'm not sure my G13 tagging of this is accurate. Is there a better tag/process? --NeilN 23:18, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

NeilN, when in doubt, I usually go the more conservative route. If the editor is around, then ask them about the article. Otherwise, you can take it to WP:MFD. Bgwhite (talk) 23:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Bgwhite, okay, done. Thanks. --NeilN 23:32, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• Hmm, well, yes, it's correct, but this is an odd editorial history, so yes, I'd probably ask them, which is also very nice of you. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:33, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Merope

Would you consider fully protecting their talk page for a few days, possibly as an alternative to revocation of talk page access? Perhaps if everyone has a few days to regain a sense of perspective we might be able to make some progress, but I don't think it would be proper for the action to come from the blocking admin. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• You know what, given that their talk page is turning into a bit of forum for others as well, that's not a bad option. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 14:23, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Cheers mate. Hopefully that'll do the trick. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:30, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Jan

Could you believe that there was no article for Jan Cremer? Via the new article on Prosper Ego (is that a real name, sounds like a character from a bad novel) I landed at your OSL article. Hadn't thought about that group for years. Back when, I knew somebody who was a member of that group. Creepy.

No sooner do I unwatch this page (too busy, clutters my watchlist; and I almost never go to ANI) and the shit hits the fan, so saw this only just now. Hope things have calmed down now. Being accused of antisemitism would make me go ballistic, too. --Randykitty (talk) 17:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• Good work! Man, he was goodlooking. I think he made waves in the US as well. Yes, things are quieter now, fortunately, with the help of some cool-headed people. And yes, that's some name, isn't it--The Banner is also on the case; I understand he occupied an honorary position on the OSL's hitlist (speaking metaphorically, of course). Banner en ik waren waarschijnlijk allebei langharig werkschuw tuig. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• That's a coincidence: just the other day I tried to explain to my wife what "langharig werkschuw tuig" means, but the best I could come up with was "long-haired work-shy hooligans", but that doesn't really capture it :-) Cremer made waves in the US too, I think you're right. But I'm a bit short on time and will leave it for someone else to expand. --Randykitty (talk) 18:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• The best visualisation of "langharig werkschuw tuig" is still Hair (film). The Banner talk 20:07, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Mmmm... bacon

Black Kite (talk) 18:46, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yup. Lunch time! Drmies (talk) 18:47, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Brighton and Hove

I tend to think user:Abdurrahman Muslim is probably not going to change their ways and I strongly believe they are wrong and will be unable to provide sources to back their point, but they do make a specific request "someone made reference in this article to the declining moral standards of the people of Brighton and Hove", which precludes it from being a forum post. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you should censor them. CombatWombat42 (talk) 19:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

If Drmies hadn't reverted, I would have. The editor is free to make no-way-that's-going-to-happen requests without the frothing at the mouth ranting. --NeilN 19:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• CombatWombat, thank you for not reverting again. No one will be able to prove anything about "declining moral standards" since it's not a measurable quantity: that user is simply trolling, pretending to be some hardcore Muslim when they're really either a drunk skinhead or a dumb high-schooler, or both. Hope I didn't break the BLP here, but the trolling was just obvious, and if you want to call my removal of that post "censorship", well, then, I, I don't know. Thank you NeilN. Drmies (talk) 22:47, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Apparently I'm a spammer

Urk, I tried to send you email, but it was returned: "Message rejected as spam by Content Filtering." Do you have a way to add me to a white list? Or can you send me an alternate email address to send it to? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oh my goodness. Yes, our spam filter has been...."acting up". Conversely, our emails have been blocked by many other providers. Do you still have the same email address? I'll ask around tomorrow. Drmies (talk) 22:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes, same email address. Thanks. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:25, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Kind sir, that domain was indeed blocked for a while so emails didn't arrive, and I was unable to send email to addresses in it. Like, you know, my mom! Anyway, the problem was supposed to have been fixed a week or two ago--when was this? Drmies (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
      • It was yesterday, less than half an hour before I wrote above that it had been returned. I'll try again. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 02:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
      • ... and it was returned again. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 02:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln

Drmies, and friendly talk page stalkers. After five plus years on this site, I have finally summoned the courage to make some relatively minor (but I believe useful) stylistic changes to the lead of a truly important article, Abraham Lincoln. I am asking anyone who reads this page to review my work, and to make additional improvements if warranted. Feel free to revert any inadvertant foolishness. Thank you. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Sure thing--but let me roll it back first, just to make sure. Drmies (talk) 21:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Oh, that one edit. Man, I don't know: this is for the scholars. I think that Rjensen has a point: that the evidence for your version is harder to come by, unless you strike lucky and hit upon the scholar saying it. So I think it's a matter for TP discussion, unless you have the proper source. Personally, but I'm an amateur (living where I live, hehe), I think you are right--but I'd be as hesitant about that edit as you have been, apparently. Look, you're a good guy, Rjensen is a good person, it's an important point: I have no doubt you all can exemplify that wonderful and by now outdated American habit of public discussion, well-informed on both sides and with mutual respect. Which reminds me: midterm elections are coming up, and I can't help but wonder what it would be like to have the right to vote, even though I know this political system is a sham in so many ways. Drmies (talk) 21:45, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Companion pieces

About the articles you created ... (absolutely gorgious, Drmies, great stuff) ... Woman Reading a Letter and Man Writing a Letter. There is additional information and links here too... Thanks a lot. Good job. You are a good guy, Dr Mies. (Nice girl you have there, on your edit notice ...) Hafspajen (talk) 07:53, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yep, definite good guy. You could have picked up that Alma-Tadema cheap 4 decades ago (probably about 500 USD). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 08:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Hm.. Writing set is a red link? I expect that it is not the same as Writing implement (Xanty you will love this one...) Hafspajen (talk) 11:13, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• A a diamond for writing on glass? Who use to do that? File:The writing on the wall LCCN2012645210.jpg. Hafspajen (talk) 11:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• I could not come up with a decent translation for "inktset"--it's not in my English vocabulary. Gerda Arendt is, I believe, the authority on inkpots; she might know. Drmies (talk) 14:10, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Sorry, not this time. Which language is that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Seems to be something in printing, on facebook and twitter, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Ink cartridges, for inkjet printer- at least in Flemish. Could almost be inked set- the inked referring to people with tattoos. There's various famous examples of writing with diamond on window panes- a form of posh graffiti. The present form is known as "scratchiti"- scratching on train windows. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 14:31, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

My problem was that we don't have an ARTICLE on WRITING SET - there is such a thing, you know, but the computer age lost it ... Hafspajen (talk) 19:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Ah, new I am ... Not humorous enoug? Well, well Hafspajen (talk) 15:07, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• We don't have an article on drawing instruments either. Now I am slightly confused over this- to me a writing set is a matched pen and automatic pencil (like a Yard-O-Led). A drawing instrument set has compasses, curves, dividers, Gunter's rule etc. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oops: I wrote hybrid English-Dutch. I meant Inktset. Drmies (talk) 20:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

ÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅ; Inkstand. Hafspajen (talk) 21:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oh, yes, ahem, I guess I could have found that myself... :) Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you

	A Dutch Golden Age Beer for You - that Long glass is the Beer
	In style. Hafspajen (talk) 11:54, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Tack sa mycket! Drmies (talk) 21:12, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Så VERY gärna. May I now call people I don't like "Asshole", and give the adress of this page - since Dr Mies said so .. or ? Oh, well, probably not ... sorry to bother. The Haf (talk) 11:12, 12 September 2014 (UTC).

Any admin stalkers here with some time on their hands?

Are there any admin stalkers here with some time on their hands? There are problems at Talk:India Against Corruption and at other articles where Lindashiers has been involved. The account is fairly new but the person behind it obviously is not. - Sitush (talk) 12:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Forget this. It is now at ANI. - Sitush (talk) 09:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for James McLemore

On 10 September 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article James McLemore, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Baptist minister James McLemore, founder of the Antioch Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, owned the wife and child of black preacher Caesar Blackwell, who had been bought for US$625 by the Alabama Baptist Association in 1828 to preach to mixed audiences? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/James McLemore. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Alabama Baptist Association

On 10 September 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Alabama Baptist Association, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Baptist minister James McLemore, founder of the Antioch Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, owned the wife and child of black preacher Caesar Blackwell, who had been bought for US$625 by the Alabama Baptist Association in 1828 to preach to mixed audiences? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice to share a set, funny set that is, two German items, to churchy ones, - I sang in the pictured place, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Ha, it's actually a quartet--Harry, que pasa? :) Drmies (talk) 14:06, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Not my doing—I just do the admin bit at the end; Hawkeye put the hooks together. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:18, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Only shortly before appearing, two hooks were pulled and replaced ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:12, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Talking of quartet: do you know this one and its history of article split? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

When the hook was moved from Prep 4 to Queue 1, only two of the four {{DYKmake}}s were moved along with the hook. I've included your two additional shiny baubles below. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks Mandarax, and let me take this opportunity to thank Wetman and Nikkimaria for their helpful edits--Nikkimaria, I see you all the time esp. in my DYKs, always improving them, and I really appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 19:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Cheers, Drmies - thanks for making nice articles to edit. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:48, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Caesar Blackwell

On 10 September 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Caesar Blackwell, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Baptist minister James McLemore, founder of the Antioch Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, owned the wife and child of black preacher Caesar Blackwell, who had been bought for US$625 by the Alabama Baptist Association in 1828 to preach to mixed audiences? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Antioch Baptist Church (Montgomery, Alabama)

On 10 September 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Antioch Baptist Church (Montgomery, Alabama), which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Baptist minister James McLemore, founder of the Antioch Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, owned the wife and child of black preacher Caesar Blackwell, who had been bought for US$625 by the Alabama Baptist Association in 1828 to preach to mixed audiences? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

If you have time

There's another issue at Talk:Men's rights movement. CSDarrow was warned that his repeated and now tendentious beaviour WRT to a paragraph about Marital rape was unacceptable. This is his edit (the last one btw) before the page was protected and this is the first edit after protection ceased . This is the same edit on August 29th. This is where the tendentious is most recently on display but here's the same dicsussion in September 2012 - there was no consensus for removal then. The same thing again in June 2013 again closing without consensus for removal. CSDarrow's campaign to remove sourced material has at this point reached disruptive and pointy levels. There's also a thread here BTW if you can't handle this just let me know--Cailil 13:15, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• I couldn't help looking at this since you pinged me in the section above. I don't want to step on your toes, my friend, but I think you've got a very obvious agenda-driven account there—a perfect example of TE and NOTHERE. If this had been brought up on my talk page, I'd have indef' him. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:39, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
  • On second thoughts, having now seen WP:MRMPS, I've blocked him for a year. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Harry, thanks for looking into this. I've looked at all those links--being somewhat familiar with CSDarrow, and in some respects sympathetic towards them--and I agree that this is unfortunately a good decision. The only thing I wonder is whether he shouldn't be indeffed given the stack of evidence. I wouldn't say NOTHERE, necessarily--but disruption and tendentious editing, sure, with some IDNHT thrown in for good measure. (I don't understand why they'd continue for two years on this one issue and not learn that removal of that text without clear talk page consensus will lead to these kinds of consequences.) Cailil, if there's one thing I learned from perusing those diffs and other talk page discussions, it's that you must have been a great student in the classroom--your homework is impeccable. Thanks for your efforts in MRM, and Harry, thanks for your work here as well. Drmies (talk) 16:06, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
      • I considered an indef as an ordinary admin action, but I thought a year under the article probation had a greater chance of sticking. Besides, I've already indef'd one established editor this week. It's not one of the more enjoyable aspects of adminship. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

THanks for looking at this HJ and Drmies - I think the year is better than indef. I hope CSD can learn from this rather than just blame eeryone else and ignore it. But I don't know. Any way thanks for keeping an eye while Bbb23 is on a well earned holiday--Cailil 20:11, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Photography

So, since you do painting articles, do you think you'd be interested in photography? I mean, Jacobus Anthonie Meessen has pretty much jack about him in English (though I'm trying to fix that). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:36, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Actually, I don't "do" art--I did this out of personal affection for The Haf. Kunst is een konijn dat kut zegt. Now, I see you remedied that jackness (lack of jackness?) since I posted--looks GA ready, as usual... Drmies (talk) 19:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Crisco 1492, here is a school he built (I love that kind of school building--I attended one in Zaandam, though a bit less gothic). He's discussed here as well, but I can't read that stupid e-book. Drmies (talk) 19:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I must say, that is an attractive building. I don't think we had anything in that style back in Windsor - but then we didn't have any 150 year old schools. The doctoral thesis looks nice too... not sure if it passes WP:ACADEMIC though. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
    • See, I think it greatly depends on what you're looking to support. Some literary interpretation, some sweeping historical statements (see Cullen's question on this page), no. But some basic stuff that the person must have gotten from the city archives, I don't have a problem with it. Then again, some students have been known to half-ass their master's theses and bribe their professors with Bintang... Drmies (talk) 00:18, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
      • Me? Never! (I used brownies). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Drmies, I need to step out (work beckons). If you or a stalker have time, would it be possible to double check the translations I've provided in Meessen's article? Easy DYK, and I think you're right: this could go to GA. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:20, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Buitengewoon opzigter appears to be one of several ranks in the provincial water management structure- it appears online in an 1834 directory for Gelderland. I don't know whether the "extraordinary" is a higher rank than "opzigter" or means "temporary" in this context. (carefully avoids making any remarks about dykes, fingers, leaking, clogs, tulips from Amsterdam, windmills of your mind) Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 04:17, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Pretty sure it's "extra ordinary" as in "not ordinary/permanent". Temporary would probably be clearer. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:28, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yes, that's usually what "buitengewoon" means. I think it typically points to things like temporary appointments, like when someone unexpectedly leaves their position and another is appointed without going through the usual process. But maybe Kleuske and The Banner have a better reading. Kleuske may still be living in the old frog country and chances are their Dutch is fresher (or, of course, half of it is English, larded with "fokking" and "moederneukend"). Ja, Osdorp is zeker geen dorp met mest, maar het geilste stadsdeel van Amsterdam-West! Drmies (talk) 14:05, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• You're rhyming on me... it's scary. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
• Ah, this always makes me feel so good. Drmies (talk) 14:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Dutch rap. Lovely. All I'm hearing is "hoer", "hoer", "hoer" and thinking it's probably not a false friend. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
• Oh Crisco, they are fantastic--"Alleen een stommert brengt zijn nieuwe brommer naar de lommerd, want je wordt bedonderd omdat niemand zich om jou bekommert". Or, "Een souteneur is een pooier, en die schooier maakt het mooier, zet zijn kip in de vitrine en wordt rijker dan de Gooijer", which you'll get if you know that "rijk-rijker" is "rich-richer", and the joke is based on Rijk de Gooijer's name--and he of course had a reputation. Brilliant. And they filmed that in de Jordaan, around the Noordermarkt, a few blocks from where I used to live... Drmies (talk) 14:14, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Not being a rap man myself... though, I must say, it's nice to see such linguistic pride in a musician. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:18, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• "Buitengewoon opzichter" could be a non-paid function, related to another paid function. Kind of part-time job contained in the main job. Like the forester, who is often also an "buitengewoon opsporingsambtenaar" or unpaid police officer, so he can arrest people. The Banner talk 14:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• On a more serious note, I've changed to "temporary" — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
  • That is not always correct... The Banner talk 14:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Indeed, no translation is always correct. In this situation, however... it would be much more useful to find out. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:06, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• …"van den waterstaat" -"of the water state"? Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 17:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Well, no, yes, maybe. "Waterstaat". No one today would use it as a regular noun--"Oh, what is the water state today?"--but it does of course derive from "state of the water", as in condition and stream gauge. I can't help but think that he's presenting himself as a hydraulic engineer of some sort. Crisco, I just changed your phrasing a bit: the source doesn't say he worked as whatever that meant, but that he registered himself with the nl:Bevolkingsregister with that occupation. Just to complicate matters. For all we know he may have been unemployed. Drmies (talk) 17:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you rightly kindly, my good sirs and madames. Of course, the original source has the whole job thing is quotation marks, which makes it even more fun to play with. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:47, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Did someone call? Drmies is right, i still live in the old "frog country". The song by Osdorp Posse is an ode to Amsterammeese and i'm a Tukker (other side of the country). I've looked at the article and the translation "buitengewoon opzigter van waterstaat" to "surveyor of public works" loses a lot in translation. An "opzichter" is an inspector, keeping track of quality of the work. He/she does not directly survey anything. I would have chosen "special inspector", but I admit i'm struggling with "waterstaat", which specifically denotes canals, bridges, dikes and sea-defences in general (anything to do with water, really). A big deal if half the country is under sea level and the rest is Wet, wet, wet. It does not have any direct translation into English, AFAIK, since neither Brits nor Americans have that specific problem. Kleuske (talk) 11:01, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Well, the Brits do, but they keep their water a bit higher up. What about "Special Inspector for Water Management"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:23, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• That sounds good. It actually looks like nobody has a good translation for "waterstaat". We have an article here called Rijkswaterstaat, without giving an English translation, just a description. And the English pages of Rijkswaterstaat itself don't give a translation either... --Randykitty (talk) 12:54, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Indeed... even our Rijksmonument isn't at an English title. Thank you right kindly. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Requesting Rollback rights

Reinhardt University

I referenced your reasoning for removing a link to a photo album on this page. I disagree with you and think the link is not only pertinent, but adds to the article. No where in the Wiki "rules" that you pointed people to does it say you cannot link to photo albums. I'd like to get more editors involved in this and get a consensus. Carsonmc (talk) 20:30, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• The article talk page is the appropriate place for that, with a notification to any involved editors. But WP:ELNO is quite clear: "regular" Flickr pages, like an individual user's page, are excluded via #11, and since in this case it's an "official" Flickr page, see WP:ELMINOFFICIAL: basically, one official link per subject/article. In this case, I let the official link and the athletics link stand, since it seems that many articles have both those links, but two ought to be enough. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Stirring up an old hornet nest

Hello!

Last year you were so kind as to to take a look at an ongoing issue regarding Landmark Worldwide and List of new religious movements. Eventually, Consensus by Attrition was achieved and I don't think anyone left happy.

Unfortunately the same basic argument that precipitated the RFC on that article has risen again, this time on the Landmark Worldwide article itself. Same players (mostly), same sources (mostly), same argument (pretty much).

Predictably, edit warring ensued and good faith went on holiday. At this point, one editor in particular (Lithistman (talk · contribs · logs · block log)) has reinserted the same material 8 times this past week, undoing edits of a variety of people including an involved admin (Rlendog), and basically said that they will continue to revert because the other editors are biased. It is clear that Lithistman is simply making edits based on opposition to other editors and not paying attention to the substance of the edits at hand - reinforced by the fact that all 8 times he has reinserted a duplicate paragraph into the article, despite being told this is the case.

Finally, the edit in question continues to use a clearly unreliable source to make controversial claims, the use of which was also found to be inappropriate a year ago.

An RFC was started by one editor, which has attracted more animosity (such as “I refuse to participate in such a farce.”) while the reverts continue.

Any eyes you could place on this would be helpful – the article and the discussion around it are a bit of a mess.

As always, thank you for your great work and for considering my request to look at this. Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 03:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• I have reverted mass removals of well-sourced text. Nothing more, nothing less. And I was utterly uninvolved when I stumbled upon the page. Those who wish to keep well-sourced criticism out of the article are once again attempting "consensus by attrition", I believe, hoping that those of us who have tried to put the article in like with NPOV will give up. LHM 04:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
• I really don't understand any of this. I mean, there's 29 pages of talk page archive. I see that good old Sitush had been busy there with his scalpel, and this is what he left us with. I like it, and I like Sitush. I have faith in him. Lithistman says, in an edit summary, "WP:CONSENSUS is not a blunt instrument to prevent changes the improve an article with respect to WP:NPOV", and in principle that's true, except that here the "changes" amount to 1/3 or so of the article. I do not understand the edits by Astynax, who in one fell swoop undoes most of poor Sitush's work. If it were up to me I'd revert to Sitush's edit, lock the article, and put all those editors together in a cage with a cat and a rooster.

  Tgeairn, there is nothing here that I can do. Given the ridiculous amount of interest in this topic, I wonder if this shouldn't go to ArbCom or something. Before that, RfCs are the way to go, with (in this case) every editor being limited to, like, 12 words or something. I'm sorry, but I'm really stumped here, though I can see one minor thing: looking over the talk page, I see good reason to ask DaveApter to stop editing this article and, if they don't want to stop, to make them stop via a topic ban. Drmies (talk) 00:52, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

  I have made some edits that might be described as "compromise edits" to the article. I'd be interested in your opinion. Also, I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one who felt DaveApter's participation in editing that article was problematic. LHM 14:07, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Maybe, but in that revert of Tgeairn you restored 10+k of Apter's material. Drmies (talk) 18:00, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Drmies, I came here because I got a notification that you'd mentioned me - but I'm a bit perplexed as to the context:

1. You say that Lithistman restored 10k of my edits - I don't think so! He's been removing my edits if anything. The editor whose material he has been restoring is Astynax.
2. You say you have good reason to suggest that I be asked to stop editing this article, or be topic banned. How so? I've only made about a dozen edits to the article over the past year, but I have discussed matters extensively on the talk page. DaveApter (talk) 20:11, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Dave, I think I misread what was going on in the last two edit wars: indeed, you and Lithistman were duking it out against each other. Sorry. That edit war is interesting, and I'm interested in why it stopped. Rlendog, why did you stop reverting on 5 September? Where is the RfC that was brought up once or twice? Really, what is going on? Oh, Dave, you obviously have a COI, and you were a player in that recent edit war where, for all intents and purposes, you removed material that could easily be considered critical of the subject. Whether you removed it rightly or wrongly doesn't really matter--you should probably just stay out. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

As for why I stopped reverting, I had no interest in edit warring. I first did a mass revert because the article as it stood, even if not perfect, had been the result of consensus from many discussions, and some elements of the mass insertion were clearly problematic, so even though there were some elements in the mass insertion that I personally thought were fine, I thought the best approach was to mass revert and allow discussion to take place of the elements that should be changed. That was reverted so I made more targeted revisions, removing content that was clearly problematic, although I didn't have time to go through the entire masa insertion with a fine tooth comb and so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed problems. This more targeted revision was also reverted. I then made even more minimal changes - without going back to the history, it may have only been removing one problematic word from the lede, and this was reverted too. By then however there was an RfC and there was also a separate discussion between myself, Astyanax and Lithistman on some of the other issues, particularly the lede, so it seemed best at that point to let the discussions play out. Rlendog (talk) 01:33, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I actually made some changes recently that were, at least in my view, versions of your earlier edits. Hopefully they will stick, and we can work to keep the article balanced, with well-sourced criticism not being proscribed, as it seemed to me was initially the case. LHM 01:37, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• Drmies - Thank you for taking a look into this. I don't mean to bring the entire discussion here, but it does look like there is some understanding forming among some of the other editors - so that's a good thing. As the edit history shows, Rlendog and I both tried to take the article back to a relatively stable version while the discussion (and then the latest RfC) played out. I still think that's the correct form. Thanks again, and (as always) Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 06:32, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Clarification of my position

1. I have no conflict of interest in relation to Landmark Worldwide, and I certainly have not “self declared” one, and I would appreciate it if you would withdraw the accusation.
2. I think it is unfortunate that my honesty and openness in declaring my viewpoint – as a satisfied sometime customer ten to twelve years ago – should result in suggestions that I should be excluded from editing the article. Especially when editors who clearly have a passionate interest refuse to declare their position. We don't require that owners of iPads should be banned from editing the Apple Inc. article!
3. I have been editing on Misplaced Pages for over nine years on a variety of subjects and I am totally committed to upholding the policies and guidelines, and working to produce quality encyclopedic content. In this time I have never been blocked for any violation. If, as you claim, I have made 274 edits to the Landmark article, that amounts to an average of around 30 per year which hardly seems excessive. The majority of these were corrections of clear vandalism or blatant POV-pushing.
4. It seems to me to be an exaggeration to suggest that I am “involved in the recent edit war” - I made two reversions of the highly inflammatory block-revision with a 48 hour interval, and then stepped back when it became clear that it was getting out of hand.
5. I hope you can agree that, for all its shortcomings, the article is in a far better state than it was before I started work on it, which was an absolute disgrace, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&oldid=2188925 6. Surely you can see that I have been trying to cultivate a constructive conversation to improve the article at Talk:Landmark Worldwide, and others who have been truculently uncooperative? It is also I who made the Request for Comment, and asked for advice on the NPOV noticeboard.

FYI, last year's RfC on the issue of Landmark's categorisation as religious is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:List_of_new_religious_movements/Archive_2#Rfc_regarding_Landmark_Worldwide and the Arbcom discussion resulting in the topic-ban of a notorious POV-pusher was here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Cirt_and_Jayen466/Proposed_decision

Thank you. DaveApter (talk) 10:48, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• Tgeairn, is the purpose of notes 43-46, which strike me as excessive, to prove at length that the joint is not a cult? And did I see this correctly, that there was an RfC somewhere on that content, that the sources don't bear out what the article says? Drmies (talk) 15:35, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• Drmies - That turned into quite the research project.

First, I agree that refs 43-46 are excessive. They appear to be being used to support the idea that the company is religious in nature and therefore justify the weight of "cult" or "disputed religious character" editorialising in the article.

Yes, there was an RfC regarding whether or not Landmark should be listed as a religious movement, which found that the company did not meet the broad list criteria at the time. That RfC came at the end (chronologically) of a long discussion following my removal of Landmark and several other entries from the list.

As far as the sources and what they say, Nwlaw63 did a pretty thorough job of going through the sources at one time, and I also spent the best of a weekend reading and summarising many of the sources used here. The result of my reading was that when taken in context, the academic sources generally ended up saying that the company either isn't religious in nature or intent and/or that it is interesting to researchers in that (to quote Chryssides - which is a source frequently copied by the others) "... seminars are not regarded as religious, although some participants regard their experiences as spiritual." There have also been a large number of other discussions on the sources, or the weight due those sources, throughout the talk page archives. Almost invariably, the result of discussion was that the source(s) did not support a label of cult or religion.

My take on all of it is that somewhere this group got themselves conflated with Human Potential Movements in general, which makes some sense given that est was an early HPM that attracted a lot of attention and that Landmark purchased the rights to some of est when Landmark started and freely admits using that purchased "technology". This lumping together of est, HPM in general, and a for-profit company (Landmark) has various very weak sources trying to imply that there is some controversy or dispute over whether Landmark has a religious nature. The actual reliable sources very explicitly say that it doesn't. All of this, combined with some heavy POV pushing years ago, results in an article that is giving weight to a fringe view that is not supported by the sources. The "Disputed religious character" section misrepresents the sources used and should (at worst) be combined with the "Reviews and criticisms" section or (at best) be gutted almost entirely.

Thank you for your pass at cleaning things up, and thank you again for all of your editorial and mop work. --Tgeairn (talk) 00:03, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• I have made a sweep through the article and attempted to resolve some of the issues raised above and at the talk page. In the process, a few of my edits were questioned (reverted). If you are able to lend a pair of eyes on the latest pass, it would be appreciated.

Also, the RfC on the talk page is now fairly moot (other than the civility question, but it's probably best for everyone to drop that stick). I don't see any obvious objection to a close, but it would be better if someone less involved in the editing than I do it.

Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 23:14, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

ANB discussion

There is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Move War at History of the Jews in Nepal, and RFC review that concerns you because you were recently involved with one or more of the related Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Nepal, Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2014 June 30 (History of the Jews in Nepal), Talk:History of the Jews in Nepal#RfC: Should we change article name to 'Judaism in Nepal'?. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 07:52, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Request, please

Jetta (musician) deletion

There, i added a refference. Now would you be so kind to remove the deletion request. (Poroboros — Preceding undated comment added 18:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Since you ask so nicely, sure. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Tarc's civility in the ANI thread

Hi, I saw that you had given a notice to Tarc about civility in the doxxing thread - Titanium Dragon had asked that once before as well. How well do you think the most recent comment by Tarc in the thread (diff) complies with being more civil? Directly calling another editor "one of the misogynist warriors" is a personal attack, even a step more incivil, am I wrong? --Pudeo' 20:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• I see a huge difference between the two. The one is an unfounded attack and a shot below the belt in an unrelated discussion, the other--while very strongly worded, sure--is an assessment of someone's edits in a thread full of evidence. Or, to put it another way, if Tarc had said "they made extremely misogynistic edits", it wouldn't be essentially different. In my opinion. Drmies (talk) 22:05, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I see, although I disagree. The equivalent would be calling someone a "militant feminist warrior", that could be based on an assessment of another editor's edit history as well. And I would support considering it a personal attack in that case too. I guess Misplaced Pages just allows name-calling in such a manner that's just too toxic for my taste. --Pudeo' 22:40, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
    • See, "militant feminist warrior", being called that is probably a badge of honor. "Feminazi", that's blockable, in my opinion. "Asshole", not so much; "fucking antisemite", yes. But these are always going to be someone's judgement calls, which is why the community elects us, for better or for worse. We can't hardly draw up a list of no-no words and block when they're uttered (although many cusswords based on race or sexuality are potentially blockable--"stupid Dutchman" etc. not so much, of course), since some of them in context might not be so bad, and other kinds of personal attacks are not done via the use of a choice word. BTW, I'm not going to claim I speak for my colleagues. I'd love to extrapolate, but I got dinner going and my boy needs my attention. Sorry, Drmies (talk) 23:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Talkpage stalker here. Pudeo, to me it feels pretty weird to suggest that "feminist" (ideological stance) is potentially as offensive as "misogynist" (a form of prejudice). Calling out a brand of prejudice-in-action doesn't strike me as particularly toxic. The never-ending discussions at talk:Anita Sarkeesian is an illustrative example of what we have to deal with when it comes to petty misogyny on Misplaced Pages. Peter 00:19, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
      • Hey Peter, thanks. And thanks for dropping by. Again, it depends on context, doesn't it. If "feminist" is a put-down meant to suggest "You have a moronic POV that makes you decide everything based on your desires to exterminate all penises", yeah. And in many contexts "militant feminist warrior" probably is a pretty clear put-down, and probably is dictated by misogyny. That is, though, how I often find the word used "feminist" used on talk pages--in my line of business, that's not how we use it at all. Then again, I'm reminded of a slogan from the 1990s, "you call me a bitch like it's a bad word," and that always brings a smile to my face. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

        Me too. Words only have the power that we give them. Eric Corbett 19:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yeah, but, but, if someone accuses me of inserting a Nazi POV in an article I'm greatly offended, just like you are when you're accused of being a sexist who chases (women) editors away. So have you and I granted them that power? Sure, because we allow ourselves to be hurt. But at the same time, we are righteously upset. I wish I was more like a duck's back, and I have to be responsible for other editors and their duck's backs too, since as an admin I have the power to act on it. Which is not always fun. I did not enjoy blocking Til Eulenspiegel, nor, I am sure, did Bishonen when she extended it to indefinite. But it was the right thing to do. Drmies (talk) 20:01, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

  There's a big difference in my mind between being called a "sexist" and "someone who chases women away". The first is just an opinion, but the second is an accusation that needs to be backed up with evidence. I'm always reminded when talking about the changing meaning of words though of a possibly apocryphal comment made by an English monarch, describing St Pauls Cathedral as "awful, pompous, and artificial", which would at the time have been high praise indeed. Eric Corbett 20:55, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

  Likewise, there's a big difference between "Nazi" and "Nazi POV editor"--an even bigger difference. The first one, no one has to take seriously. But once you're accused of such a POV (or of chasing women editors away...) you have to defend yourself, and how does one do that, courteously, without losing one's patience, and in front of a pretty big audience? (Yours bigger than mine: you have pro-MF and anti-MF posses, I hear.) Being accused of acting in bad faith is very painful. (That this guy said I was "unknowingly" antisemitic or something like that was of no help.) Drmies (talk) 23:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Wowou, while you are thinking big, take a look at user Petterson's wise advices. (Vandalism only account - most probably) Hafspajen (talk) 19:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Clearly not this guy, one of my favorite Swedes of all time. Drmies (talk) 20:01, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Mentions of Swedish footballers always bring to mind a headline in The Sun when Sweden beat a dire England football team: "Swedes 1 Turnips 0". (Their best ever, imo, was "Super Caley Go Ballistic Celtic Are Atrocious", referring to a surprise hammering of Celtic FC by league minnows Inverness Caledonian Thistle). Do they do stuff like this in mainstream US newspapers? - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• On the sports pages, they stick a bunch of cliches and stupid words together and make them alliterate. "Prattville front line paving way for powerful running game." That's not egregious, but wait til Saturday, when the high school games are reported on. Drmies (talk) 20:15, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• I see. Maybe Tarc has picked something up from that. In the last hour, they've called me a liar and a misogynist as the GGTF pile-on at ANI continues. Neither are true. - Sitush (talk) 20:21, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

  That GGTF task force ought to be closed down. No good will come of it. Eric Corbett 20:55, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Closing it down does seem to be the intent of you and your compadres, which is, of course, very disruptive to the project/task force. Lightbreather (talk) 21:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Lightbreather, if you haven't recognised by now that Eric ploughs his own furrow and is as independent-minded as they come here then there is no hope for you. He doesn't have "compadres" in the sense that you mean. - Sitush (talk) 21:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. I forgot that you guys know what women think better than we do. Lightbreather (talk) 21:48, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

You can hardly forget what you never knew, or are we about to enter some alternate universe in which all logic is suspended? Like GGTF for instance? Eric Corbett 22:12, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

I must admit that my inherent male idiocy means that I do not get the logic of LB's last response above. But then I've apparently only got a D in "feminism". I've never got lower than a B in anything that has been marked in my life, and I was told that my entrance exam papers at Cambridge would have earned me a First. I'm not the brightest, for sure, Lightbreather, but don't assume that I'm stupid or that I think being male makes me superior rather than just different. I don't consider women to be inferior in any way and I collaborate very well with many here. There are gender differences, not just gaps. That's one reason why there are more females on Facebook, I guess. Mostly we have to live with those differences, both sides.

If you want some old-fashioned commentary that probably actually was sexism then check out the (perhaps apocryphal) story of Nancy Astor speaking in the House of Commons: she said that there was very little difference between men and women and, allegedly, some male MP said "Thank God for the little difference." That's me done in this thread. As soon as GGTF turn up, stuffs goes downhill, just as it often does when the ARS turn up. Far better to spend time improving this bloody things than hypothesising. It wouldn't be so bad if the GGTF were actually coming up with sensible proposals but in fact all it seems to have done so far is collate a corpus of "yes, it really does exist" material. We need solutions, not polemics. Please accept my apologies for the rant, Drmies- Sitush (talk) 00:57, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

No apology necessary, Sitush. I have not seen the GGTF at work--and I think the ARS has all but disappeared. But listen, first of all, a D is a passing grade in the US. Second, for every cute story like that there's a lot less cute one, like this, and the ogling and all that--yeah, that's sexism too, and it's revolting, and that a senator, a senator, gets to hear this stuff, well. Take it easy Sitush, Drmies (talk) 01:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• I just wanted to come thank everyone one for continuing to recognize my civility at ANI...that is what this thread title says, after all. When can I expect my barnstar? Tarc (talk) 23:54, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
  •  Done. Drmies (talk) 00:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

The Brighton & Hove ranter

SEe Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Abdurrahman Muslim. (A working redlink). These were CU checked.. Dougweller (talk) 13:43, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks. And that's what we invented the internet for. Drmies (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

User:NeilN, User:CombatWombat42, you might like to know about this. Dougweller (talk) 18:56, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Green Thank button gone

Hafspajen (talk) 17:52, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Depictions of Stocholm in snow
• 
• 

So, you have seen enough snow. I want back my thank button - it was much easier than this yes - no thing . Can I disable it? Hafspajen (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Haha, that's funny. Drmies (talk) 23:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Hafspajen: You can now (at least I think)! I've created a little script here that should restore what it used to do. To install it, just go to this page and write importScript("User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/oldSchoolThanks.js");. IT still comes with a (more standard) confirmation box, but you can get rid of that, if you like: just type in noThanksConfirm = true; on the same page, on the line above the importScript part. Maybe not, though; you might be talking about something else. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:38, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't green, but it works and I prefer it. Thanks (again, as I tested it on you). That's the 2nd script by you I've got there. Dougweller (talk) 07:35, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Writ, you are an angel. I will soon try it. Doug, what, it's not green any more? Hafspajen (talk) 08:10, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, nothing happened, Writ Keeper. Here is the page - did what I could, but I probably made something wrong ... Hafspajen (talk) 08:27, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I got an email from Erik Moeller a couple of days ago, explaining that the development team were rolling out a lot of fixes relating to Echo, Flow etc. It looks like they might also be making a lot of small incremental changes, rapidly. - Sitush (talk) 10:10, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually it is quite irritating - it is like the Swedish politicians, whenewer they try to improve someting it will just get worse. Like killing the Swedish Post offices. Hafspajen (talk) 10:14, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

What the Germans call a "Verschlimmbesserung"! I suppose that would be "verslechtbetering" in NL. --Boson (talk) 13:03, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

They killed the post offices? I LOVED the post offices. I remember one very well...not too far from where the ferry lands... Drmies (talk) 15:03, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, there are no Post offices in Sweden any more. You pick up your things ( the parcells) at the grocery shops - there are like two per city, you buy your stamps at the supermarket - and all this only because it was state owned - so not politically correct. Drmies, have you seen the discussion at User talk:Yngvadottir#Jonathan Hill? You are recomended. Will you help me? Your server is English. Could you please try to get some reviews on his books? -> User:Hafspajen/Jonathan Hill (theologian) Hafspajen (talk) 15:14, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK

P. S. Template:Did you know nominations/Man Writing a Letter + Woman Reading a Letter. Hafspajen (talk) 16:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

BlueHatt

And now it is a blue hat, has anyone noticed that one. Hafspajen (talk) 10:19, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

User talk:Til Eulenspiegel

I don't think this removal was necessary. Better ignored, IMO. And it's information — whether correct or not, I dunno. (Very likely not, but anyway.) I wouldn't revoke tpa for it either, not unless he does worse. And he may need tpa in case he wants to remove his silly "retired" template. Bishonen | talk 12:54, 13 September 2014 (UTC).

P.S, so is it because of Flow issues that Echo has got so terminally wonky? 90% of the time, the alerts screen won't open when I click on the little red number. :-( It is quite irritating. Bishonen | talk 12:53, 13 September 2014 (UTC).

Yes, it is. I raised one of the wonky issues at a Flow development talk page and that led to a couple of emails with Erik M. The specific issue seems now to be fixed but other ones are raising their head, as you mention. They really should test this stuff before deploying it. - Sitush (talk) 13:13, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• The second time I thought about it I decided to remove it. Revoking TPA strikes me as appropriate, since it was nothing but soapboxing with a whole bunch of rather heinous accusations thrown in. If he wants to have that template removed, he can email me--though possibly The Internet has a filter that blocks email containing his customary lexicon. Sitush, I don't know about "wonky", but "slow as thick shit going through a funnel", sure. (Sounds better in Dutch.) Drmies (talk) 14:03, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Til's still socking. As for Flow, just set your preferences so you get no notifications of any kind from Flow. That might help. It helped me. Dougweller (talk) 14:34, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, I've tried that now, thanks, Doug, let's see if it helps. I dislike having to fiddle with my prefs in order not to get tripped up by beta software, but whatever. Currently not socking any more, I've rangeblocked those IPs. I take every opportunity to mention stuff like that because it makes me sound brilliant. Anyway, Drmies, I still disagree with your actions at the talkpage. I thought about it twice too. Bishonen | talk 16:01, 13 September 2014 (UTC).

I think that's the first time we disagreed since that time you proposed getting blue and orange flowers for the wedding. You know I don't mind you wheelwarring with me, as long as you realize that it means you are making the coffee tomorrow morning. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, I was wrong. Drmies (talk) 18:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'll make the coffee on the understanding that you hereafter refer to me as "the rangeblock goddess". I've reverted you on User talk:Til Eulenspiegel and restored tpa (for now). Per WP:WHEEL, it'll be the admin that reverts me (on the admin action, not the other bit) that wheelwars. Bishonen | talk 18:44, 13 September 2014 (UTC).

I hope it comes with cinnamon or cardamom buns, since I really don't know how that rant and their talk page access in any way improve what we're doing here. See you tomorrow. Key's under the rat trap outside the backdoor. Drmies (talk) 18:48, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I think that's what I did. Finally Fram's messages stopped popping up. I mean, Fram and I are like this, but it was getting a bit much. I felt verklemmt, stuck in our relationship, as if Flow wanted me and Fram to have nothing but each other, and I just can't live that way. I can't. Drmies (talk) 14:52, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I did that, on Erik's advice, but it made no difference for the issue that I was experiencing, which was in part Fram-related. Right now, the only issue I have is the incredible slowness. In fairness, Echo is one of the best things the developers have come up with of late (once they sorted out the orange talk page message box); I'd hate to think that it might become unstable because of Flow. - Sitush (talk) 14:54, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Concerning IP Block

Hello, Can you modify 198.17.96.192's block so there is no talk page access? Obviously, that ability is being abused. Writing Enthusiast 19:01, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

• Already done. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
• And now we're in London with 91.204.210.205. Kww, Elockid, is there something going on that you can see but I can't? Drmies (talk) 19:10, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
• I see that FPaS has dealt with matters. Drmies (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Just as an FYI, that's Wikinger using proxies and such. I'll take a look at the affected ranges and block them when I get more time. Elockid 02:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I figured. Thanks Elockid. There's been more activity since yesterday, with global blocks and stuff. 'Bout time for someone to call the sheriff. Drmies (talk) 13:57, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Eunice Anderson

Could you please put this article in my user space? I want to try and rescue it. Thanks.Two kinds of pork_Bacon 01:54, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you busy making me in a pot?Two kinds of pork_Bacon 22:29, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Nope, not today. Done. User:Two kinds of pork/Eunice Anderson. Drmies (talk) 22:38, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

It's Just Another Day

Look at this and this. Radiopathy •talk• 02:55, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Long toes.

I think I have stepped on a few long toes by AfD'ing a bunch of non-notable beauty pageants contestants. One of the guys is so pissed off that he wants me banned of AfD'ing any article. Typical case od WP:IDONTLIKEIT.

Unfortunately, I am not in the mood for this BS. Yesterday, someone crashed into my car. I am okay, but my car is a wreck. And the other car fled the scene. So temporarily, I am not in the mood to cope with this.

Not that I expect anything from you, but just an explanation why you will not see me too often the coming week. The Banner talk 17:39, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Hmm. I am sorry to hear that. Lotta people don't seem to like you much, Banner... Take care, Drmies (talk) 17:55, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I tend to act without any regard of status or popularity of the author or subject. And that is what most people expect here.
  • Got a message from the Gardai that they have found the owner of the fleeing car. Have asked my insurance company for advice, because this is something I haven't any experience with. The Banner talk 09:22, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid I may be out of polite options

Perhaps if you or one of the talkpage stalkers talked to this person. 108.29.119.217. I hate to block 'em, especially since I must have reverted them a dozen times. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:07, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Because the edit war is so haphazard, I would warn him before blocking him. You and I generally have different approaches to problematic editors, but I'm happy to do that for you. Just let me know. I don't think his behavior justifies a block without at least one warning. I doubt talking to him further will help. Your explanation on his talk page is quite clear and readable.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:46, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

And as the fringe editing is persistent (over many months) and disruptive, I have semi-protected the article for a year. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, feel free to change or remove it. Bencherlite 21:48, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I think it's unjustified, Bencherlite. In terms of recent - and even not so recent activity - almost all of the disruption to the article has come from the one IP address. Punishing all non-autoconfirmed users for the sins of one makes no sense. If the IP's editing is sufficiently disruptive, then they should be blocked for however long it takes for them to understand that they can't repeat that behavior. Despite my disagreement, I find it very hard to reverse the action of another administrator, even when they so graciously gave me permission. I'll wait to see if there are further comments here. If another administrator disagrees with me, I'll leave it be. Otherwise, I'll remove the protection and warn the IP.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:00, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Drmies has taken care of the warning part.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:02, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'm with Bbb here--I thought I saw other disruptors in the history, but now I can't find them. I would have blocked this IP for trolling--clearly I'm the bad cop to Yngvadottir's good cop. Drmies (talk) 22:03, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, all: there is this one and before that this one, and there was debate on the talk page in 2012, but it's overwhelmingly this particular person now; they responded to me in recent edit summaries. I see other edits in their history that are not all bad, but next time they repeat at Mermaids: The Body Found I'll block if nobody else does. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:14, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Before I sign off ...

Before I sign off for the day, something has gone wrong after this edit of yours. I think it relates to the pending changes stuff but I'm a misogynist and that is synonymous with being an idiot, apparently. - Sitush (talk) 23:24, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Psst, Drmies, you need to either switch to semi- or full-protect, or throw up a bot barrier. PC doesn't mix well with redirects otherwise. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:33, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oh come on Sitush. You're just a bit...well, you know. Old. One day I want you to tell me what it was like to read the newspaper and see that picture of the Hindenburg. Yes, Nikkimaria, I saw something happening and figured that someone from the WMF would take care of it. :) Drmies (talk) 00:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• I'll tell you- it was a real drag watching Gutenberg carve the block- "What's it going to be, Gutey?- a cucumber on a barbecue?" Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 05:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Edits to Palpatine Article

Hi,

Why were my edits to the Emperor Palpatine article reverted? Your note, you said I must cite a source. However, the source is simply the movie under which my edit was made, "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith." My update was simply describing a plot element the original editor left out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.45.64.253 (talk) 00:34, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Hey! I think you probably need to talk to someone. Remember, it's OK. Best, Drmies (talk) 01:54, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

A page you deleted as been speedily recreated

A Garden of Prayer - user keeps re-creating it (amongst others). Perhaps we could salt it? Dusti 01:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• I looked at their deleted contributions and that was clear enough. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 02:09, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I presume it is not a real garden? (Hard to know now...) Hafspajen (talk) 21:08, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• There's Garden of Prayer with a zombie on the cover. And The Garden of Forking Paths, in which a blind librarian predicts the existence of Misplaced Pages- "a vast and intricate labyrinth, one in which all men would lose their way." He further develops the theme in The Library of Babel- "The library must contain all useful information, including predictions of the future, biographies of any person, and translations of every book in all languages. Despite — indeed, because of — this glut of information, all books are totally useless to the reader, leaving the librarians in a state of suicidal despair." In Funes the Memorious the future editor is described- "My mind, sir, is like a dustbin". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 21:30, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
• Xanthelodopus, usually I know it's you after the first sentence. Well done. Now, please write up There is a garden in her face. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:26, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

And there is Gethsemane ... Hafspajen (talk) 21:45, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

and .. - the mighty George Beverly Shea. Praise the Lord! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• That article's a bit of a mess- I chased up one ref and altered it, but the article itself is a bit confusing- two sites, one "annexed" by the Greeks and one "discovered" by the Latins, and eight olive trees presumably planted by the Saracens (as Inspector Montalbano would have it). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 22:01, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

And there is Agony in the Garden.. too. Hafspajen (talk) 22:06, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Xanthelodopus, wats's dat.Hafspajen (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Wielding adminship as authority in editing?

I find this edit summary insulting and very problematic. The fact that you've been entrusted with a mop and bucked most certainly does not entitle you to special privilege when editing, as you state in your edit summary there. Furthermore, I believe you're wrong in your claim. Using primary sources is not unacceptable in any way, particularly when the source is the US Department of Labor, and the information cited is regarding the existence of a USDoL investigation--and an investigation that, from what I can tell, Landmark has attempted at every turn to pretend does not exist. This is a formal request for you to self-revert your removal, and to disclaim your edit summary that seems to state that you feel like edits you make, as an administrator, are somehow worthier than edits those of us who don't have a few extra buttons may make. If no self-revert is forthcoming, I will be forced to revert it myself. LHM 00:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• I got a better suggestion for you. Get off your high horse and find consensus, on the talk page, that the language you used was in fact neutral, and that somehow a primary source is acceptable to verify this kind of information. And then explain how that tidbit was even relevant in the first place--since for now the only sensible reading off that text is that it is in there to make a point about the subject via innuendo. And spare me "special privilege", please. Drmies (talk) 00:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

How dare you use your special privileges to keep an article neutral and within policy! You should be ashamed of yourself! Dusti 00:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• I won't "spare you" anything. You invoked your administrator status in a way I found unacceptable, given that adminship isn't a badge or any sort of big deal. The wording that you removed is neutral, simply reporting the facts of that matter. And you did wield your adminship as something of a police badge or something, basically threatening anyone who dared revert you, as I read it. That is wholly inappropriate, no matter how much it offends you to hear it stated as such. LHM 01:15, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• Hearing that doesn't offend me at all. Drmies (talk) 01:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• Wait, this has to be a joke.

  that use of primary sources may not be proscribed is irrelevant. this is tendentious material, not neutral, and requires better sourcing than this. call it administrative intervention

Where is there a threat? Cause if there's a hidden threat, @Drmies: needs to write my next HR Handbook. Dusti 01:35, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Categorizing his edit removing sourced material as "administrative intervention" seems to me a not-so-subtle hint that "you'd better not revert this edit I just made." That's inappropriate. LHM 01:39, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

He removed material that was being pushed in a POV manner that only has a single source and no secondary sources. He said, and I quote Call it an administrative intervention. You projecting meaning into that statement is your issue, not his. If you're worried that you may receive consequences for your POV pushing, again, that's your issue. Now, I am going to hop on over to your page and give you some links to some items on ownership of articles, edit warring, and being neutral (hence our requirements for secondary sourcing. Does anyone else hear that whoosh whoosh sound? Dusti 01:46, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Ironic that you accuse me of "ownership" and "POV pushing." I have no fear of being blocked, as I've removed that putrid article from my watchlist. People are free to remove whatever well-sourced material they want to now, completely erroneously citing WP:PRIMARY (which doesn't mean what they think it means) it support. LHM 02:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Dusti, this is a pleasant surprise: I appreciate the support. In the meantime, Chillum has pulled out his admin badge but he's waving it as me as much as at my opponent. There's a note on Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard as well--not so much for forum shopping, though that's a bit of a risk I suppose, but because fresh eyes are sorely needed. Have you seen how voluminous the talk page archive is? Thanks again, Drmies (talk) 02:02, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring is edit warring. Do you expect me to focus on the other user and ignore you? I am acting on the page as an admin not involved in a content dispute. Chillum Need help? Type {{ping|Chillum}} 02:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• Yes sir! Hey, I'm glad you changed your signature a bit--I found it hard to read. But that font is awfully small for an old person like me. Drmies (talk) 02:09, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

You made an interesting point on the talk page. There is some wording to our EW policy to support your position. I have started this discussion to get a better idea of what the community expects: Wikipedia_talk:Edit_warring#What_is_not_edit_warring. Chillum Need help? Type {{ping|Chillum}} 02:52, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• Chillum, I am firmly convinced that there is POV pushing going on, but by the same token I am fully aware that there is no 3R exemption. Still, I was prepared to go to the limit of 3, which I did, and I'm glad they stopped. Being an admin here will not make me exempt either, I know that fully well. In other words, I am not trying to make up an excuse for going as far as I did, and on the other hand, if I hadn't also been an editor here, I would likely have warned and possibly blocked Lithistman for these unacceptable edits. I think that above you can see, in comments by Tgeairn, that others have seen a bit of a POV-pushing edit warrior in them. Anyway, rip me a new one if you must. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

When have you ever cared about what the community expects? Eric Corbett 03:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Now, now Eric, let's play nice. Dusti 03:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

When has Chillum ever played nice? Eric Corbett 03:11, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• I can't judge that, Eric. I know that Chillum is playing it straight, with no favors for me because of my badge (ha, that's funny, the whole idea of me with a badge), and I can't blame him for that. What I'd rather see is Chillum or any other admin jumping in to recognize the POV violation--but when I say that, I am conveniently forgetting that it takes a while before one recognizes them in a specific article, in a specific situation. Though, in this case, negative innuendo based on primary sourcing, that seems not too unclear to me... Drmies (talk) 03:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

  Well I can judge, as I know Chillum from old. Eric Corbett 03:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Landmark Worldwide. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
This just in case I need to report you at WP:ANEW. LHM 01:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)