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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wireless power transfer article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 3 months

Energy C‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Energy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Energy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnergyWikipedia:WikiProject EnergyTemplate:WikiProject Energyenergy C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Physics B‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Physics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhysicsWikipedia:WikiProject PhysicsTemplate:WikiProject Physicsphysics B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Electrostatic

If it's a "rapidly alternating" field, it's not "electrostatic". But it's a direct quote, so what can you do? --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

AC electrostatic fields? It remains an electrostatic field no matter how fast it's varying. But more clearly, "Electrostatics" is a field of science involving e-fields, charge, forces. It's analogous to Newtonian Statics. Neither one is required to be "static." Instead, they only apply to situations where "dynamics" phenomena are insignificant, or are being ignored. If neither EM waves nor magnetic fields are significant, then a system is "electrostatic," even if it's AC. Or for example, if you're looking only at the e-fields and attraction/repulsion forces of a radio antenna, then you're doing "Electrostatics."128.95.172.173 (talk) 01:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Material needs to be put back in

Material needs to be put back in ...

"Revision as of 09:28, 5 January 2011 Wtshymanski" ... has a strong anti-Tesla POV in editing.

... needs to be put into the Electrical conduction section. --J. D. Redding 16:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC) <years later> In this article, we should talk about methods that work. Poor doomed Tesla has a whole article on his World Wireless system and a lengthy biography as well. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:26, 18 September 2014 (UTC) ...and again, this article should stick to methods that work, not dead-ends that couldn't work. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:55, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Electric energy transfer

This section is very poorly put together and is almost useless without simple field line diagrams. Also please don't just rip unedited from Steinmetz... simplify first.

Get on it!!!!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.236.53 (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2011‎ (UTC)

This section did seem to read oddly textbook when i saw it, figures. Darryl from Mars (talk) 00:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Narrower beams.

Article wrote: Because of the "thinned array curse," it is not possible to make a narrower beam by combining the beams of several smaller satellites.

Phase coherent sources on the baseline of a set of larger antenna array (satellite) sources, produce narrower beams. And sources spaced sufficiently Nyquist dense to the broadcast wavelength, would produce an ideal narrow beam, with a larger array of satellites. Phase array radars use this method. What you mean to say is that, "Combining several satellites into a larger array with phase coherency, will produce a narrower beam, but the more that the synthetic aperture array is thinned below a Nyquist Source Spacing Wavelength Criterion, will cause the beam pattern to be spread about the ideal narrow beam far-field pattern, in a reduced resolution." 76.93.48.186 (talk) 19:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Phased_Array_Radar

Heard Iceland wants to use wireless power transmission ?

Heard nation of Iceland.Wants to use Wireless power transmission to sell power to Europe! From its Geo GThermal producing power plants? Any info on this idea? That of Nikola Tesla (1856-1943) idea of sending eleltric power wirelessly? Thanks!SPQRANDRE (talk) 21:31, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Wireless Power Transfer by Magnetic Resonant Coupling

Two type of wireless power exist: Far-field, and Near-Field. This article ignores a category suggested by this section title, and is years behind industrial innovations in the same.

WiTricity <--- a Misplaced Pages article

WiTricity is resonant coupling for power transfer --near-field coupling NOT far-field coupling. WiTricity was branded by Marin Soljacic from MIT.

Resonant inductive coupling <---wikipedia article

“Resonant energy transfer is the operating principle behind proposed short range wireless electricity systems such as WiTricity and systems that have already been deployed, such as passive RFID tags and contactless smart cards.”

The Misplaced Pages.org articles WiTricity and Resonant inductive coupling are not even in the 'See Also' section.

What is the blind-spot about in this confused article?

Not to mention that Intel Corp. did a road show with demonstrations of a few dozen watts of power transfered several feet at 75% efficiency.

And a cell phone company, TDK, already has a wireless power charger designed for production, with improvements already slated. Another company has a wireless power charger pad to park an electric car over for wireless charging.

As an enthusiast, I'm compiling a time-line as I can (not complete by any means)...

• http://portal.groupkos.com/index.php?title=Near_Field_Resonance_Time-line

Consider that while the press realizes and reports MIT's and Intel's work, et al, as the magnetic equivalent of Tesla's resonant voltage technology, that the academic cloud has yet to precipitate much outside the home camp... perhaps only due to the newness of it all. Yet, when industry forges ahead at the lead from MIT, is that not sufficient citation? Are the scientific papers supporting the patents by Soljacic not sufficient citation?

The missing term here is resonant coupling. Electrodynamic induction is not proper terminology for the same. Why? Because the resonant one-loop coil that transmits (often surrounded by a field-shaping passive coil) makes no broadcast RF signal while self-resonant. Therefore...

I hope to track this article and the cultural interplay of old-school meeting new-school... because to date, very few can disconnect Marin Soljacic's work on first exposure as more than an inductive trick.

Think coupled NMR coils, built to cohere to a self-magnetic-resonance at the same frequency, with field drop-off between them mapping the Coulomb field energy gradient (exponentially dimenishing with distance). There is no emitted RF signature from a self-resonant magnetic loop.

Links about magnetic resonant coupling (not to be dismissed as inductive coupling)

Facebook

WiTricity Corporation

• https://www.facebook.com/WiTricity

Youtube (for pity sakes)

WiTricity technology (The Economist)

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCUMhkEhTo

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drbzm-GumK4 <-- excellent demonstration

Wireless Charging for Consumer Electronics and Military Applications

• http://www.wirelesspowerplanet.com/news/wireless-charging-and-transmission-for-consumer-electronics-vehicles-industrial-markets-and-military-applications/

Instructables.com has at least one proper builder-project

(also with term confusion --because they may have read this article!)

Remember that like this Misplaced Pages article seems to portray by omission AND mis-labeling, that there is a general mis-conception that inductive coupling is the principle involved with magnetic resonant coupling.

Check out this gap between coils...

• http://portal.groupkos.com/index.php?title=File:IntelWirelessDevice_0382.JPG

DonEMitchell (talk) 17:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Re-edited DonEMitchell (talk) 12:56, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Re-edited -moved to the bottom, sorry DonEMitchell (talk) 13:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Re-edited -my bad. Inductive Wireless Coupling is in the 'See Also.'

Contactless vs. Wireless

This article covers all types of contactless charging, including the future potential for wireless charging. Given this topical breadth, I renamed the article accordingly.

Contactless charging includes all types of systems, from inductive charging, with which a device must be placed very near or on top of the charger, to wireless charging, with which a device could be freely transported around a house while charging—a technology that is still in very earky developlemt.

Primarily, though, the previous article title was confusing to the 90% of people who don't understand electrical engineering, and were led by it to believe there is a technology available to them that allows the freedom to carry their mobile phones around the house while charging.InternetMeme (talk) 04:36, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

That's irrelevant. We're not here to right wrongs. The relevant question is what the title normally is in the literature. So far as I can tell, it's simply 'wireless power' nearly always.Teapeat (talk) 19:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Wireless Is Not Necessarily 'Contactless'

The disturbed charge of ground and air method employs ground terminal electrodes that are in physical contact with the earth; it is not contactless and yet it is wireless.  Furthermore, the energy transmission mode is not by means of electromagnetic induction nor by electromagnetic radiation, rather by electric current flowing through natural conductors and displacement current.  The name of the article should be changed back to "Wireless energy transfer" or changed to "Wireless power or wireless energy transmission." -- GPeterson (talk) 16:11, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Considering title changes

• WP:TITLECHANGES

. . . If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed. . . .

no consensus can be reached on what the title should be, default to the title used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a stub. (This paragraph was adopted to stop move warring. It is an adaptation of the wording in the Manual of Style, which is based on the Arbitration Committee's decision in the Jguk case.)

Any potentially controversial proposal to change a title should be advertised at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves, and consensus reached before any change is made. Debating controversial titles is often unproductive, and there are many other ways to help improve Misplaced Pages. . . .

While titles for articles are subject to consensus, do not invent names as a means of compromising between opposing points of view. Misplaced Pages describes current usage but cannot prescribe a particular usage or invent new names.

-- GPeterson (talk) 16:33, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:00, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Contactless energy transfer → Wireless power – Misplaced Pages requires we use the most common name for the title. The most common name is 'wireless power', so we should use that. Even the use of the word 'energy' is bad because electricity is really mostly to do with power, not energy, because electric circuits are largely incapable of storing energy (although batteries can, they really store power, in the form of energy). But that doesn't matter much, the most common name for this is 'wireless power'.Teapeat (talk) 20:06, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Support, as I believe "wireless power" is the more common term (and, for me, more immediately meaningful). 213.246.91.158 (talk) 09:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
• Support - Wireless power, more common term; current title is not acceptable. --J. D. Redding 16:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
• Support - Proposed title would be more common and understandable. --Steve (talk) 14:49, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Terrestrial single-conductor surface wave transmission line

How this type of power transfer in microwave frequency range through a single conductor comes under the article titled 'Wireless power'?

R!j!n (talk) 12:05, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, if it has a wire, it's not wireless and doesn't belong here. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Citation 106 was not correct.

I found the correct date and pages for this citation. Here is a link to the actual article: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101050973336?urlappend=%3Bseq=836

I have corrected the citation. Thanks,

MMcGehee (talk) 12:42, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Scalar Electromagnetics

Google video search (Tesla Konstantin Meyl transmission of energy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJPz88jUbM "Meyl shows Tesla longitudinal waves for wireless energy transmission"

The result that I watched illustrated that there was a distinct difference between the Tesla coil transmission of energy when in one mode (Hertzian wave mode) where the signal strength was very weak and could easily be blocked by a person's hand versus a stronger signal (longitudinal wave mode) that could not be blocked by a person's hand.

Physicist Meyl said that he had demonstrated this at a number of lectures at universities to both students and professors.

Meyl also claimed that the wave of the stronger transmission was not Hertzian, but was longitudinal. The fringe science of scalar electromagnetics subject is usually not found here on Misplaced Pages. A search a year or two ago produced no Google search results from the Misplaced Pages web pages for stuff relating to scalar electromagnetics at all.

The Tesla coil experimenters demonstrating the phenomenon could claim now that the pervading Higgs field of local space time is being disturbed by the oscillating Tesla coil to permit a more distant than usual coupling or induction in a receiving resonant Tesla coil device.

Other persons have claimed to have produced low powered public address systems whose wireless remote units were able to drive speakers at substantial distances from the transmitters. Google (Patrick Flanagan Tesla)

Meyl also claimed that he confirmed claims of others that the longitudinal wave traveled at a FTL speed of about 1.5 c (where c = the speed of light in free space).

Google (Donald Lee Smith free energy)

A now deceased petroleum mining engineer named Donald Lee Smith produced a number of so called free energy devices. He had an unfettered access to books on electrodynamics dating back to the 1800s, and so did not dismiss out of hand any of the original theories therein posited in the older texts. In one or more presentations Smith says that for quite a number of years that he had never heard of Tesla's experimentation in the field of energy.

Among the numerous working device prototypes where Smith supposedly demonstrated over unity results was a 4 Tesla coil apparatus where a resonant circuit powered a low loss Tesla coil transmitter that induced "identical" / multiplied energy output in resonant receiver Tesla coils that were within 5 centimeters or so away. For the greatest energy transfer to the 3 receiver Tesla coils, each had a tuning capacitor for adjusting the receiver coils to be as close in resonant frequency as possible to the transmitter.

Google (Donald Smith inventors weekend 2001)

The point in the particular video that features explanation of the operation of the Tesla coil resonant network transmitter is at about 5 minutes 27 seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVd3AKbLnM&feature=youtu.be&t=5m27s

The video lacks any live demonstration of the particular Tesla coil energy transmission and multiplication device.

The correspondence with the mechanism demonstrated by Meyl is that the Don Smith unit could well have had more receiving coils at even greater distance apart to have received the transmitter's energy. Meyl's unit demonstrate that the units do not work with the 1/ (d squared) transmission reduction by the simple and practical fact that Meyl's input energy was the small output of a signal generator, etc, not any multi-kilowatt RF amplifier set up.

Could any of this information in any published papers be cited in the current article so that either FTL or longitudinal or scalar electromagnetics could be mentioned? Oldspammer (talk) 15:52, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Lead

The lead not very clear:
"Wireless power or wireless energy transmission is the transmission of electrical energy from a power source to an electrical load without man-made conductors. Wireless transmission is useful in cases where interconnecting wires are inconvenient, hazardous, or impossible. The problem of wireless power transmission differs from that of wireless telecommunications, such as radio. In the latter, the proportion of energy received becomes critical only if it is too low for the signal to be distinguished from the background noise. With wireless power, efficiency is the more significant parameter. A large part of the energy sent out by the generating plant must arrive at the receiver or receivers to make the system economical.

The most common form of wireless power transmission is carried out using direct induction followed by resonant magnetic induction. Other methods under consideration are electromagnetic radiation in the form of microwaves or lasers and electrical conduction through natural media. It's way too complicated. There is nothing wrong with using big or complex words. It has to be understandable though.--Wyn.junior (talk) 00:02, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Way too much Tesla

All of these additions seem to be a rehash of off topic material that the primary author, GLPeterson, seems to be shunting around Misplaced Pages, trying to find a home for it, re: at Wardenclyffe Tower and World Wireless System. I have noted the problems with this material before at Talk:Wardenclyffe Tower#"World Wireless System", "Variant receiver", "Particle beam invention" and some at Talk:World Wireless System#Capacity of Earth but the highlights of the problem here (as noted by others) is that this is way off topic for this article giving way too much WP:UNDUE to a Tesla historical dead end instead of covering the topic. There is also allot of opinion (more like wholesale POVPUSHes by "Tesla" authors such as Corum) being stated in Misplaced Pages's voice as fact, counter to WP:YESPOV. Articles and books on this topic note Tesla as a short and unsuccessful footnote in Wireless power, not the "go to" authority on the topic. A side problem, which may take us to a Noticeboard, maybe WP:NORN, is the fact that the editor is heavily excerpting and relying on/promoting/pushing publications from his own websites, tfcbooks.com and TESLARADIO.COM, which is getting to the point of violating WP:NOTMIRROR. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 02:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree. The text of the section seems to be trying to conceal the fact that most of the claims for this type of transmission were made by one man, Tesla, 115 years ago. The citations of Tesla's work often omit Tesla's name and the date to conceal the lack of other sources, and several of the citations don't have any scientific facts but are just Tesla's promotional speeches. This is rampant WP:UNDUE weight to a technological dead end, and clearly WP:POVPUSHing by Tesla enthusiasts. As WP editors, you should know better. You need to understand and respect WP's standards for WP:VERIFIABILITY. --Chetvorno 15:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I have note the noted "concealing", pushing, rewording sections about specific "old" Tesla ideas into "some guy some time", and what seem to be bad faith edits/accusations of DAMAGING by GLPeterson. I also note the editors silence on this talk page. This falls into WP:DISRUPTSIGNS. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 16:49, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, GLPeterson, rather than just reverting let's discuss this here. --Chetvorno 17:51, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

• C-Class energy articles
• Top-importance energy articles
• B-Class physics articles
• Mid-importance physics articles
• B-Class physics articles of Mid-importance