Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:24, 22 November 2014

• WT:RD

• Misplaced Pages Reference desks
  • Computing
  • Entertainment
  • Humanities
  • Language
  • Mathematics
  • Science
  • Miscellaneous
  • All
  • Archives

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130 131, 132, 133

RD Guidelines 1 2 3 4 5

This page has archives. Sections older than 10 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

Great activity on RD/S

Just wanted to say that the RD/S is humming along pretty nicely. Great content, thanks to many contributors. -- Scray (talk) 15:29, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Alex Sazonov

User: Alex Sazonov has been editing Misplaced Pages for six or seven months. His editorial history seems to consist entirely of the Reference Desks and of responding at his talk page to comments about his posts to the Reference Desks. His English is poor, and no one knows what his native language is. (Native speakers of Russian do not understand his posts any more than native speakers of English.) Two recent posts make no scientific sense, because they use the word 'valence', which is a technical term of chemistry applicable only to chemical elements as if it applied to compounds and manufactured materials. He has been repeatedly advised either to find a web site in his own language or to use automated translation. I have posted to his talk page to that effect again today. I see that his talk page includes previous such advice. If he continues to edit the Reference Desk in ways that do not make sense, we should go to WP:ANI and ask that he be either topic-banned from the Reference Desk or blocked from editing. (Since he does nothing but post his stuff here, there is little difference between a topic-ban and a block.) I think that we have been patient long enough. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:00, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Well the first bit is no problem: anyone is free to use the refdesks, there is no requirement to do other things on WP too (though some editors do seem think so). I personally am happy to ignore his posts, and occasionally supply some links if I can get a general sense of what he's asking about. If he is editing in bad faith/trolling, IMO he is a very poor one, because he doesn't disrupt much, and doesn't really argue with us or do other things that make trolls bothersome. Finally, it doesn't matter to me what the native language is, e.g. if his native tongue were Greek but he chose a Russian-sounding username, why should we care? In my view, ESL status should not make users into second class citizens, and this particular user is not harmfully disruptive in my estimation. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:58, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

He sounds like many regular editors at the ref desk, who are single-minded and don't really understand that they're not actually improving Misplaced Pages with their "contributions" here. Why just pick on one editor? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what you do elsewhere on WP but when you seem only show up on the ref desk to disparage said desk on its talk page, it's hard to AGF with you. Do you really think this kind of feedback is improving the discussion? You don't have to like what we do here but if you won't help fix the problems you perceive then please be polite enough to just ignore those of us who enjoy using the desks to help people. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Agree with SemanticMantis. It was getting to be excessive and disruptive for a while but the number of contributions has gone down to a level where they don't cause too much trouble. Try just ignoring the posts if they annoy you. Dmcq (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I have hatted his two most recent posts. I agree that he isn't a troll, just a clueless editor who doesn't know English and uses scientific terminology incorrectly. Evidently he thinks that 'valence' means something other than its technical meaning in chemistry. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

One previous editor about a month ago at the Mathematics Reference Desk was indeffed for posting flawed proofs. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm willing to ignore him for a while, but he is a nuisance. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

For my part, I decided weeks ago to ignore him. I'm not convinced that he or anyone else is getting any benefit from the conversations that he has been starting. That said, I don't have a strong opinion on doing anything other than ignoring him. Dragons flight (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

This is difficult. We're required to WP:AGF - and he doesn't seem to have done anything to cause us to believe he's not acting in good faith. His questions are invariably meaningless babble - and because the words seem correctly spelled - but wildly meaningless in context - it certainly seems like he's using automatic translation from some non-English language. In the last case, who knows what word in his language is being translated into "valence"? His questions don't seem to violate any guideline - so we kinda need to gently point out that asking questions here is a complete waste of his time, and ours...and failing that, I'd suggest that nobody even attempt to answer them unless their meaning is completely clear. But when he starts to ANSWER questions - I have concerns. His answers don't survive translation any better than his questions do - they are just complete nonsense - and I'm quite sure they are very confusing to our OP's. I'm actually of the opinion that we need to block his answers from the list somehow. Technically he's engaging in "disruptive editing" - but because of WP:AGF, I don't think we should take punitive sanctions here. SteveBaker (talk) 21:34, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I very much doubt that he is using automatic translation - his persistent use of 'been' inappropriately (until he was told to stop doing it) suggests that he either thinks he is writing coherent English, or is trolling. Personally, I have to suggest that the latter seems more plausible. If his English is as poor as appears on the surface, one would have to assume that he would find understanding replies difficult, but he rarely seems to suggest this - instead, he usually responds (where it makes sense at all) by disagreeing, and adding his own confusing opinions. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I was wondering for a while whether they weren't some sort of Eliza program with the bad language being there deliberately to disguise it. I've come to the conclusion now there is actually somebody there strange though their thought processes must be. Dmcq (talk) 13:32, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

• Many of our askers are "clueless", presumably we are here to try to help them get a clue. Based on this discussion, I do not see widespread support for starting ANI business on this user. However, anyone is of course free to start that process of their own volition. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:09, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

A thread below took issue with hatting an opinion question. Is there agreement that when this poster's responses to our replies to his questions become incomprehensible, hatting them is an appropriate action? Robert McClenon (talk) 21:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't agree with that. If you are answering a question, it is their thread, essentially, you're engaging them. If the user answers with nonsense to another question, sure, hat them, but if you expect nonsense, don't engage them, ignore the question. More than once, I'm fairly certain I was able to beg down what they were trying to say, but I'm not sure, so I refrain; but, it does seem they are saying something, or believe they are. If they were being horribly disruptive and flooding the desk with ten questions a day, then there would be reason to do something, but one harmless person who doesn't seem to have mastered language isn't hurting anything and there isn't much of a reason to do anything - I'm not sure what is actually gained by policing this person as long as they are contained to their own questions.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 08:37, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Formal dinner discussion hatting...

...unhatted. The majority of the thread was useful, both in direct advice and in pointing out how the question might be clarified for even better replies. I don't condone hatting of borderline discussions based on overly strict reading of rules. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:39, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

It is most certainly a referenceable question. The advice of Miss Manners or Emily Post might labeled "opinions", but they are informed opinions. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 10:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Agree with that. If somebody asks what people would be like if they had wings and could fly I would have no objections to somebody pointing to Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men. Dmcq (talk) 13:41, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Unsigned Posts

Is User:SineBot supposed to be signing unsigned posts at the Reference Desks? There is a recent thread at the Science Desk that has two unsigned posts by an IP that were not signed by the bot. Should the Reference Desks enable the bot, or is the bot down again (which happens periodically)? Robert McClenon (talk) 21:38, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

It appears that the bot is down. However, can someone check whether the reference desks have enabled the bot? I have asked the bot maintainer whether there is an alternate maintainer, but I know that question won't be answered until the bot maintainer gets back. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:43, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, all desks belong to the category Non-talk pages that are automatically signed. SineBot's last action on the Science desk was Nov 11 . ---Sluzzelin talk 22:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

The bot is working again. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:30, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Professor of physics

I got an EC when trying to hat this question as it had already been hatted. I did find a followup, outside the hat, by the IP which I deleted and left (nearly except for spacing issues) the same rationale I had planned to leave with the hat . As I implied in my edit summary, regardlessof whether there may be professors of physics who answer questions here on occasion, it's not acceptable (as I think we've discussed before) to demand that only certain editors answer your question. (It may be okay to ask people to take particular care to avoid answers which are offtopic, unreferenced or otherwise inappropriate.) Normally we may simply ignore such requirements (and perhaps ignore the question), but in this case, since the editor has already asked the question and received answers and I see now even deleted answers and is simply giving lots of follow ups complaining that the wrong person answered (rather than anything fundamentally wrong with the answers), I feel it's acceptable to hat the followup any further followups or even delete them if they continue. (My deletion was reverted by the IP and Robert than moved the hat to cover the latest followup. If that convinces the IP to stop, I'm fine with that. If the IP continues to give followups, deletion and blocking may be in order.) I would add that if this editor is User:Wavyinfinity as it appears some people suspect in the original question Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science#Gravitation / Relativity / Cosmology, then they are evading a topic ban as I mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2014 November 5#Black Holes, Dark Matter, General Relativity (and is perhaps why they are now editing from an IP) and have given even more reason to be blocked. Nil Einne (talk) 03:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually seems they're evading a block and not just a topic ban. User:Wavyinfinity was blocked due to continual topic ban violations. Nil Einne (talk) 04:02, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

See the IP user's edit history, that he dates to today, and see this edit where he restores the relativity / cosmology nonsense at Gravitation by the obviously identical User:N738139. Given he has given us both a named account and a Static IP address any admin's job should be simple. μηδείς (talk) 04:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

The suggestion that the new IP is Wavyinfinity doesn't really QUACK for me. Wavyinfinity (talk · contribs) was comfortable signing his name and using indentations in threading. 178.194.81.188 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) seems to have trouble with both of those. Also, Wavyinfinity's comments regarding relativity seem very different than the IPs. I don't think they are the same person. For the record, I am the one who blocked Wavyinfinity. Dragons flight (talk) 05:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Looking at User:N738139's user page, I'd have to suggest that a Wavyinfinity sock seems plausible - compare with the now deleted polemic on Wavyinfinity's user page. . AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I read both. Aside from both being attacks on establish physics, I don't see a lot of similarity. N738139's short text mentions many terms, such as "Poincaré", "Sagnac", "Wormholes", "standard model", "aberration", "time dilation", and "Newton", which don't occur in Wavyinfinity's long text. Dragons flight (talk) 06:54, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Of course, if it is important, one could ask for a sockpuppet investigation. Though there are some similar issues here, I'm inclined to believe these are different people. Dragons flight (talk) 06:57, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Based on Dragons Flight comments who I think has a fair amount more experience with Wavyinfinity than me and a more careful look I withdraw my claim that the IP is Wavyinfinity. I saw an editor who appeared to me to be showing up to try and convince us that general relativity was wrong with great vigiour which we'd just had from Wavyinfinity and I assumed they were connected as I'd seen someone else also suggest, and made the above comment. When I looked more careful at their edit history and saw them asking the same stuff on talk pages, as well as bothering Dragons flight (who I'd noticed was the one to block them), this further reenforced my view and I started to delete their talk page comments as well. However I see now that Dragons flight had replied to their comment on the RD. Also, while it appears the editor thinks there's something wrong with physics and is not particularly willing to accept that it's probably their understanding, I'm was never that sure if they're particularly going to the extremes of Wavyinfinity of saying general relativity etc is pseudoscience solely from their comments. (They did link to , which does talk about conspiracies in physics but I couldn't be bothered working out what it's about and it doesn't quite seem the same as the stuff Wavyinfinity was talking about.) Finally I'd noticed the connection with N738139 mentioned above which told me there was some stuff in the French wikipedia. but I didn't look in to that aspect until now. While I don't understand French, it looks to me like the Swiss IP probably has a decent command fr:Spécial:Contributions/178.194.81.188, fr:Spécial:Contributions/N738139, fr:Spécial:Contributions/MM=2000. I'm not seeing any sign of that from Wavyinfinity. I've therefore apologised to the editors involved. As I said there, I don't withdraw much else. The editors contributions appear unwelcome as long as they're going to make silly demands and delete answers. P.S. I would add that, I have doubts a SPI would be much use as it stands. The number of edits from N738139 is small, it definitely doesn't seem there's anything there enough to connect to to Wavyinfinity. The IP and has a lot more, but of course a checkuser won't connect the IP to Wavyinfinity so it would need to be behavioural evidence. The IP and N738139 are obviously connected, but I presume evidence for the IP can't be used to do a checkuser on N738139 (even if CU won't comment on the IP itself). Nil Einne (talk) 15:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

The IP is not Wavyinfinity. Wavyinfinity writes English at the native level, and the IP does not. If two ducks quack differently, they are not the same duck. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

disruptive thread

The OP has continued the hatted thread about restaurants with two petulantly worded questions. I have deleted the thread and asked the OP to start a new thread on a single question if he likes. μηδείς (talk) 23:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Is this weirdness the normal behavior of Pablo the Penguin, or has he taken a wrong turn recently? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:23, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thou hath been done. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)