Misplaced Pages

• Delete per above. --Coredesat talk. o.o;; 02:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Isn't this exactly what lists are for? There isn't a category that exists for this, and, frankly, I don't see how this is different from say List of fruits or List of gay, lesbian or bisexual composers. Also, don't be afraid of red links, my friends--they're a good way of showing what needs to be done. See Misplaced Pages:Lists (stand-alone lists)#Appropriate topics for lists AdamBiswanger1 13:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see Category:Tango musicians, which seem to cover this a lot better. Thanks. --Ragib 17:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid that musicians and vocalists are two very different things. Also, lists are helpful because they can be annotated and explained, like "So and so released one tango album early in his career". AdamBiswanger1 17:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Wao, at least someone here with some knowledge of the subject. Yes, musicians and singer is not an identity. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Some of these tango singers have contributed nothing - nada to tango music in se, because they followed the Argentine tango conventions of their days to the letter. But their voice and the way they sang invited millions to the world of tango. *Delete; my suggestion is to start a tango singer WP:Wikiproject, if sufficient interest exists. Walter Siegmund (talk) 15:58, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• • chico, there is a tango project which can cover this perfectly. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as per AdamBiswanger1. A list like this should be treated with care - it is not the only controversial one. I see that a page like Oleg doubles up as a list of every famous Russian called Oleg, and as a redirect page to rulers called Oleg. Calling tango singers "tango musicians" may sometimes be inappropriate (some of them may find it funny themselves) and in the case of my addition to the list, Pyotr Leshchenko - who rearranged texts of Russian romance songs to make them conform to Argentine tango, but never (re)composed anything rather contoversial. Most of the singers who are (also) mentioned as tango musicians seem to have done some acting in films. Perhaps that made them "tango musicians" in the popular mind? Talking about Wikiprojects, I see Tobias Conradi has recently started Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Tango. He IS rather pushy, but hopefully there is no hidden agenda here - a lot of his stuff seems to be getting AfDed at this moment? --Pan Gerwazy 16:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I request you withdraw your last comment, unless you can reveal the hidden link between me and anything related to Tango. Feel free to dig up my contribution tree. --Ragib 17:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

chico,do we need a contribution tree? After attacking tango.info now it's list of singers. All within few days. All during or near to a 8 week block of mine, which was reduced. And you say there is no agenda? What a coincidence. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Tobias, please refrain from such personal attacks. I haven't even read any Tango related articles before I nominated this, while going for cleanup of random articles. And I looked at the other article you have mentioned, which is under afd by someone I have never even communicated with. Whether you are under block or not is not a something I know or want to know. So, UNLESS you can show I am part of the global anti-Tango conspiracy, please refrain from making ridiculous claims. I hope you would retract your comments. As I said, my contribution list is open for you to look and find any relation with Tango. Thank you. --Ragib 21:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I was not suggesting that you had something against Tobias, or something against tango. It just seemed like "there was something in the air". Someone got himself blocked, and all of a sudden ... But OK, since at this moment no more than two persons are voting "delete" on both AfDs, my impression looks unfounded and I will have to withdraw the comment.--Pan Gerwazy 23:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. --Ragib 23:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Notability concerns also. The JPS 19:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
  • The are all very notable. Seems you are not very familiar with this topic. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. If somebody is non-notable, take them off the list. There's a reference given in the talk page. Have the delete voters ever read WP:CLS? This is a textbook case of when a list is a good thing. Not all the singers have articles yet (it looks like they'll be along in the future, though) so there's a definitely improvement over categories for a start. How on earth is this meaningless? I am really struggling to understand. There have been tango singers in human history, that's pretty clear, what would be wrong with a list that listed a selection of the more notable ones (notable enough to eventually deserve an article, perhaps) and provided some brief biographical details? This list isn't there yet but there's no reason why it shouldn't. AFD is not cleanup. TheGrappler 20:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

And for those who haven't read WP:CLS, a short and unbiased summary is "lists, categories and series boxes have different advantages and disadvantages, and sometimes one, two or even all three of these are appropriate". If you read WP:CLS you will understand why Category:Tango musicians does not in the least make this list defunct, nor is at simple as "the category does it better" - the category does different things better. Does the category do red links, for instance? No! They are for different things and will work just fine side by side. TheGrappler 20:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep. We have "Lists of Jews" and other things, why lists or Tango Singers are bad? Lots of people like Tango and these singers are notable to them. What if somebody is researching on Tango music? I can thing of about at least 10 reasons why this list should be kept. Let us not forget that non-notability is sometimes on the eye of the beholder, I'm a Tango-ignorant and know at least 10-15 percent of this list. As the previous voter said, "real" non-notable people should be removed ("real", in this case, should be defined as non-notable within the Tango world), but that's it. Sebastian Kessel 21:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - and if you don't have this music you are all invited to Berlin, I can lead you each night to a milonga where you can listen to their voices. Of, course you can also travel to Buenos Aires, but you would need another guide. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Alternatively, they could come to the "Feesten" in Gent-Belgium , Baudelo Park. Start next Saturday.--Pan Gerwazy 23:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - per Sebastian Kessel. Red links are also quite useful as an inspirations for the new articles abakharev 21:47, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete Listcruft, this is possibly endless. What merits inclusion? Do you sing it in the shower and get added? What about a "List of people who whistle the 1812 overture while walking the dog" I am sure that is equally as encyclopedic and useful. List of fruits, used as an example in a keep vote above is well defined (the criteria for a fruit is definate) and limited. Keep ridiculous things like this as catagories for the selected few who are notable enough to warrant a full article. Viridae 00:24, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

  Comment Tango is a popular form of music in the Spanish-speaking world. A tango singer is as definable as a pop singer or an opera singer or a rock singer, or any other type of vocalist that you can think of. Let's not crumble in the face of a trick task, which would be defining "tango singer". Also, we need to come to terms with the fact that lists can and will exist peacefully on Misplaced Pages. See WP:CLS. Lists are good. People like them. People learn from them. They are accepted. And this is about as legit a list as any other that exists on Misplaced Pages. Here is a series of axioms for people who like logic:

1. This list is of a useful and notable subject
2. This list can be more than a category (with annotation and explanations)
3. Any list fulfilling these two requirements should be included

Conclusion: Keep the list. AdamBiswanger1 00:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete- per TBC. pschemp | talk 01:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)